How Tripwire Funnels Retain Clients Longer with Destini Copp

The funnels that are converting consistently are the ones that are thinking in terms of their ecosystem, not just one single funnel. 

I've seen many smart business owners pour energy into single-funnel strategies—landing page, launch sequence, wait for conversions—only to hit a ceiling. The funnel would work for a time, then the momentum would fade. New customers came, but they rarely came back. Revenue felt inconsistent.

Destini Copp demonstrates a different way. Instead of pushing more launches or building more funnels, she teaches founders to start building systems that keep clients engaged, invested, and loyal.

We're diving into why traditional funnels plateau, what actually replaces constant launching, where tripwires and upsells fit into a bigger ecosystem, and why the founders who win are the ones who understand that the best funnels don't just convert once. They introduce clients to your full ecosystem—tripwires, upsells, memberships—so they stay longer and invest deeper.

If you've ever felt like you're one launch away from burnout, or if you've wondered why adding more offers seems to overwhelm people instead of excite them, this episode is for you.

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL DISCOVER:

• The "flywheel" framework that replaced Destini's old funnel model (and why single funnels stop converting after a while)
• Why the founders who win aren't rebuilding their funnels every 6 months—and what they're doing differently
• How tripwires work when you think bigger than $7-$27 offers
• The  email sequence that retargets people who didn't buy at checkout (and why timing matters more than you think)
• What "stacking" multiple upsells actually looks like in a real funnel (with numbers from her B2B and B2C brands)
• Why order bumps and strategic upsells feel less "salesy" when you frame them the right way
• How to diagnose which stage of your business needs optimization first (so you're not guessing)

ABOUT OUR GUEST, DESTINI COPP

Destini Copp is the founder of Hobby Scool and Creators MBA—two education brands that serve completely different audiences but use the same core growth system. She works with established experts, course creators, and membership owners who want to stop feeling overwhelmed by marketing and start building systems that generate consistent, predictable revenue without constant input.

Her signature framework—the Creator's Growth Flywheel—breaks down how to build businesses in five integrated stages: Attract → Engage → Nurture → Retain → Advocate. 

Get Destini's Creator's Growth Flywheel Diagnostic (use this to figure out which stage of your business needs attention first)

Join the Why Isn't This Converting?" Free 5-Day challenge to get more clients from your copy by clicking here!

Know exactly what to fix in your copywriting with this "Why Isn't This Converting?" Free 5-Day Challenge. You'll get bite-sized email prompts where you’ll apply one simple, high-impact fix in just minutes to make your content convert without having to re-write everything or constantly guess at what's going to work.

Transcript

Megan Kachigan (Megan Kachigan)
At a certain point in business, more marketing isn't always the answer. You can have funnels, launches, content calendars, all of the things, and still inconsistent revenue.
So let's talk about what actually replaces that. Today, I am joined by Destini Copp, a business growth strategist and founder of multiple education brands, including Hobby School and Creators MBA.
She works with established experts, course creators, and membership owners who are exceptional at what they do, but often overwhelmed by the marketing layer of their business.
I can relate, right? We can relate. So instead of pushing more content, more launches, more funnels, we're really focused on helping founders build structured, sustainable marketing
systems that generate consistent revenue without constant input or output. So what I really appreciate about Destiny's approach is that it's really grounded in implementation.
I think so often we hear of like, a lot of marketing strategists say, I gave this like really, like we really hashed out this great marketing strategy and then they never implement it or they never use it.
And then so like, how great is that marketing strategy if you don't actually do it? So today we are digging into why traditional funnels stop converting, what replaces the constant launching, which we all know it can be a very exhausting, where AI actually fits in all this, and what shifts when you move from content marketing to true marketing systems.
So Destiny, welcome to the show. So glad to have you here.

Yeah, thanks so much for having me, Megan. I am super excited to be here with you today and talking about one of my favorite topics.
Yeah, yeah, I'm excited.

I your perspective on this, and I'd love to just jump right into it. What are you seeing both with yourself, with your clients?
Why do funnels often stop converting after a while, and what replaces them?

Yeah, so this is a topic I really love to kind of delve in, and I'm going to take you back a few years.
I know when I say this phrase, people are going to be like, yeah, I know where this is coming from.
But, you know, people used to talk about you're only one funnel away, basically saying you're only one funnel away to a million dollars.
Now, we all know because we are all very business and very experienced, smart business owners who have been doing this for a while.
We know that that's not true. But at the same time, I will say that that model was working way back when.
So, you know, to their, you know, credit. Yes, they did have a system that was working, and funnels still work, but I would propose that we need much more than that one funnel in our business to really kind of grow the sustainable businesses that give us the life that we, you know, most likely started doing these businesses for.
So we could go into all the nitty-gritty details there, but that is, that is kind of the history, and what I'm seeing is, yes, funnels are still working, but it needs to be tied into this bigger ecosystem that we're building in our system, in our business.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm seeing that as well, from the copywriting side of it, writing a copy for these funnels.
It's not just this isolated thing that's siloed, but how does it fit into, yeah, your bigger brand ecosystem, as you said.
And... So we talked about like, how do you, how do you do this without necessarily feeling like, oh, I constantly have to create, I'm constantly putting out this output.
How can you systematize your marketing so it doesn't feel like constant content creation?


So it doesn't feel like constant content creation. So I really, if you just give me a second and kind of set the stage here, I really, I like to kind of think about, our online creator businesses.
And I know that a lot of people who are listening here, they have courses, they have memberships, they have cohort programs or coaching programs or whatever.
So, and I'm really speaking to those type of people here. And I have developed a framework and it's called the Creators Growth Flywheel Framework.
And it's really kind of this ecosystem of how you build these businesses and kind of where, you know, where different things fit into it.
We can talk about how some of this like all ties in together. But the first is the attract stage, which is how people find you.
You bring them into your world. And then the next is the engage stage. So that might be when they're signing up for your lead magnet and maybe even going through a funnel that you have, like a tripwire type funnel where you have a limited time offer, maybe some order months and upsells.
And then the next stage is what I call the nurture stage. And this is where you might have your nurture content, like your podcast content or your weekly newsletter that goes out.
And that's very, very important. I'm not saying that you have to constantly churn out content all the time, but we need a way because we are experts.
We need a way to demonstrate that thought leadership in our business. And I think that stage is the really kind of powerful stage to do that.
And then the next stage is what I call the retain stage. And that is really kind of where you build
what call it. And the most profit in your business, right? You're retaining customers. Maybe they're buying additional stuff from you.
You know, maybe it's some membership or maybe it's, you know, some other offers that you may kind of layer on to people who bought that tripwire offer from you, you know, in that other stage that I talked about.
And then you kind of move into that advocacy stage. And that's where you have your customers kind of talking about you, recommending you to others and kind of, you know, expanding that growth flywheel, if you will.
And you might even have some affiliates that might be promoting you in that advocacy stage, too. And then all of this continues just to go around that growth flywheel.
So it's more of a flywheel in your business that you are building than that one funnel that kind of, you know, people come in, they maybe listen to a webinar that you have, and then they, you know, don't buy at that point in time.
And they kind of, you know, fall off and you never really engage them again. That's not what we want to do in our business.
We want to build this holistic kind of growth flywheel that keeps spinning. And I always tell people, like, when you go in to kind of optimize one of these elements in these growth flywheel, it'll just kind of, you know, get that flywheel spinning even faster, if you would.

Yeah, yeah, I see that, too, a lot with my Copy Clarity Club members. They'll bring in a piece of the puzzle there, and if we just optimize that, and like you said, let's keep that momentum of the flywheel turning faster and faster.
And I think so often, from what I see, is like, you don't have to, like, overhaul all your copy.
Like, sometimes, but like most often, like, I feel like 90% of the time, like 9 out of 10, you're not having to overhaul everything.
But how can we strategically look at this and see what is, identify what is actually working and what is not working or not working as well as it could?
And being really specific about diagnosing those things versus feeling like you have to build out a different funnels and have like 10 different freebies and they're all pointing to different things and it's just, it gets crazy real fast.
Absolutely.

So yeah, it does simplify it when you look at the, you know, the whole list of growth flywheel and figure out, okay, what tweaks am I going to make?
And it only has to be tweaks, as you mentioned. Yeah.


Are there common tweaks that you see you're constantly telling like your clients or your people, like what are, I don't know, what is the most common thing that you think people are like, oh, if they just did this, that usually does the trick?

So I don't know that there's any magic bullet. So I'm certainly not going to ensure that, but I will say that a lot of people, when they're kind of just building out their ecosystems, some of the really good places to start are kind of at the beginning, right?
You know, we want to make sure that we have that repeatable system for getting in leads, because if nobody knows about us, they're not
going to be coming into our ecosystem, right? So, you know, that is like number one. You've got to figure that out.
And I like to have kind of those, you know, basically those rinse and repeat visibility systems. And it could be a lot of different things.
It doesn't have to be paid ads necessarily. It can be, but you can certainly come up with other type of visibility, kind of rinse and repeat visibility systems that serve your business very well.
And then from that stage, let's say they have that attract stage kind of nailed down. Then if it makes sense in your business, having that offer where people can, you know, purchase from you fairly immediately in your business.
I love AAA offers for a lot of us out there. I think they tend to work very well. They could give people a taste of what it's like to work with us.
We can get that instant customer. So if you're running paid ads, you can kind of get some of that money back or all of that money back. So I like those tripwire type funnels in that engage stage that I talked about, and really kind of getting that up and running and optimized, I think is a really good, good way to go.
And, you know, all of it's so important, Megan. It's hard for me.
I know.

But, you know, once you get people into your world, you need that weekly newsletter and some type of thought leadership type content.
So, you know, that's very important, too. And all of those three kind of pieces I consider to be really kind of building blocks, kind of your basement of your house, if you would.
So getting those three pieces right, and then you can kind of move in to some of the more advanced strategies and the retaining the advocacy stage.
Yeah.

I would love to talk more about tripwires, because I think not enough people are using them. Or they have this lead magnet that they're just trying to like...
Get out there and they got it out there with just like a good enough. Let's see if this is working.
And then they kind of forget about it. And they never add on like they're now doing like bundles and summits, but then they don't have a tripwire.
And it's just like such a missed opportunity. Like sure, the little cash injection is nice, especially if you're using ads to offset that.
But more than that, it's not really about the money, I feel like at that point, but it's more about like, getting someone deeper into your world in a way where they're more committed because they've paid a low ticket something to take it seriously.
So what have you seen works really well? What makes a good tripwire?

Yeah, I think it really kind of depends upon your audience and what they're, you know, what they're interested in.
I can tell you in my B2B brand, the AI offers have been working very, very well. It's just what people are interested in right now is what they need help with right now.
So any type of AI assistants, custom GPTs, you know, kind of help me get things done faster are working extremely well.
And I will say in my B2C brand, so I'll kind of switch my hats a little bit here and go over to hobby school.
So, you know, things that we put in our tripwire type offers there would just be like bundles of workshops or digital products like planners and journals.
Sometimes we add the AI elements in there, like the one that we're doing this month, funnel that we're working this month has a, as a, one of the order bumps has a planner with an AI assistant.
So that's been really cool and selling very well. We also put our memberships in our tripwire funnels, not necessarily in the B2C market on the front end, but it'll be farther along in the funnel and you would not
believe how many people actually sign up. It blew my mind. Sign up for one of, for our Craft and Create Club membership in the funnel itself.

Say more. I'm interested.

I'll kind of walk you through one of our funnels right now. We have the VIP pass when they go to checkout.
We use Thrivecart for this. We have a, I don't even remember what it's called, like an organizer planner, and it has an AI, like a custom GPT in there to help them like fill out the planner, kind of organize their house.
It's for the Organized Living Summit that we're doing. The next upsell in that particular funnel is our workshops from our event from last year.
Sells very well. People love to get those. And then the next upsell, so it's pretty far down. The next upsell is our Craft and Create Club membership where they can go ahead and sign up for $7 a month.
It's a low-cost membership. But, you know, people sign up and then, you know, we build our membership base from that funnel.

Interesting. So you're putting multiple small upsells in that one funnel.

I always recommend that if it makes sense for the customer journey. You always have to put the customer at the forefront and kind of think about, you know, what would make sense for them as they go through that funnel.
But I like to have at least two upsells in the majority of my funnels.

Good. Yeah. I've been seeing this working with my clients as well. Just or even like including here's a list of my best podcasts or best blogs or just something to give them more of you, more of an experience of you.
And then that helps them know, oh, yeah, buying this low ticket thing just totally makes sense because I know like and now trust this person.
What's I feel like I don't hear enough people talking about putting two upsells in a funnel that already had a tripwire.
I feel like we're not thinking big enough here. Or I think a common thing, I feel like my audience, the objection they would have is like, but am I selling too much?
Isn't that selling too much? Is my audience going to be sick of me selling if I'm selling, you know, a tripwire and then two upsells in there?
Is that too much? Slash how spaced out are those upsells from each other? I mean, they're right then.

They're not in the funnel. So they're not in the email funnel. They're right in when they're checking out. So what happens is they see the sales page for the VIP pass.
When they click to order, it goes to the ThriveCart checkout. So it is a cart checkout page.
I want to be clear about that.

There's not a sales page. It's a cart. It's a checkout page that has an order bump. Once they input their name and their credit card information and they hit submit, immediately they are offered the next upsell and then immediately they are offered the next upsell.
Now, to your point, though, let's say that somebody signed up for our free event and didn't buy that VIP pass.
In the email sequence that we send out to them, we will retarget them. So I'll kind of walk you through those emails if you would give me a second.
Okay, so we deliver the information for the free event, right? We let them know, okay, great. Here's your ticket.
You're all signed up. There's a couple of things that I do in that first email that is very important because I need them to click, right?
Because some of this traffic is coming from paid ads and I need our, their email service provider and, you know, all of the, you know, all of them out there to know that they actually wanted to get that email.
So I want them to click. So I Number two, I want them to respond back to me. We need to have that conversation because that's going to be a huge trigger for the email service provider.
So I always ask them, what's your favorite hobby? People love to respond back to me and tell me all about their hobbies.
So they respond back, tell me about their hobby, and I can have that conversation with them. Okay, let's say they didn't buy the VIP pass, and then, you know, four hours later, generally what I will do is start retargeting them.
So it starts pretty quickly because you're top of their mind. Maybe they just missed the timer on the VIP, you know, maybe they just missed it.
I mean, it happens, right? People are busy, they're on their phones, and some people don't like to purchase on their phones, whatever.
So we basically start the retargeting email if they didn't purchase four hours later. Then we'll, you know, couple, I think, I don't remember off the top of my head, it might be the next
day or the day after that, we'll send them another and then we'll do one more reminder.

Okay. Okay, good. Good. And do you have a typical like length of those email sequences that feels right or works well for you?
Or is there, have you ever been like, oh, no, this was too long or this was definitely too short?
Is there a...
Are you asking like whether it should be like five days or three days or seven days? Yeah.

Yeah.

So it really kind of just depends upon the offer. Yeah. So with VIP passes, B2C market, low cost. I mean, they're not extremely expensive.
It's pretty short. I don't remember off the top of my head. I'd have to go look. But, you know, a few days.
Now, let's say that somebody signed up for one of my B2B offers. It's more of a higher price type offer that I might have.
Maybe it's my, you know, profit club or my creator's MBA lab, those are going to be longer sequences.
Yeah, that makes sense.

That makes sense. Good. I feel like this is so good because it's such, I don't know, so simple and yet I think so under tapped because it's so easy to get overwhelmed with all of the things and you always feel like you could be marketing more.
But really, how can we step back and ask ourselves, how can we make our marketing that we are doing really optimize it to make it work for us?
And I think by including these order bumps, these upsells, having these strategic email sequences automated and the retargeting is super smart.
Again, I think a lot of listeners would be like, oh yeah, duh. But like, why am I not doing that?
Why don't I? But then it like comes down to a capacity issue, you know? So, yeah. So, this has been a great conversation.
Is there anything we feel like we missed that you want to add in on this tripwire email sequence type conversation?

Yeah, I mean, I understand. I definitely understand your point because I feel that way in my own business. Like, I feel overwhelmed.
I mean, as you were mentioning this, I'm like, yeah, I got a lot of, I need to actually go back through and out of mine, look at the data, figure out, you know, what should I tweak or whatever.
And I think, you know, as business owners, myself included here, like many others, we just get so busy. We're like, I know I need to do it.
I probably could get a big bang for my buck, right? My ROI, my time by doing it. It just, it kind of goes by the wayside.
But you're right. You're telling us this is a good reminder that we need to put that as a top priority because we're probably leaving money on the table.

Yes, yes, absolutely. And like, it's not just the money from the tripwire or the low ticket sell, it's creating, what was it you said, the retain and the advocacy levels of your flywheel.
Like when I'm writing copy, so many people say like, copy that converts. Oh, copy has to connect before it converts.
Yes, those two things are absolutely true. But when I'm writing copy, I'm thinking not just connecting convert. Yes, those, but also connect, convert, and retain.
Not enough people are talking about, how do we retain? And the more you serve people and more of those little offers, getting them quick wins, the more they're going to want to continue to be in your world, the more they're naturally going to talk about you and recommend you, which, as you said, is your advocacy stage of the flywheel.
So that, yeah, I think it's, it's, those low ticket offers and upsells play such a bigger role in the overall ecosystem of what we're building.
And actually, like, this is what's great about, I have my membership is Copy Clarity Club. And it's like, I know you don't have time for it.
I know you know you need to do it. Just submit what you've got or like whatever your starting point is.
And then I give you feedback on it of like, here's what's working. Here's what I would consider. Here's how we would even structure it.
And then we can get it done together versus just like it could sit on the back of your to-do list for forever.
And these are such great strategies that you're bringing to the table. I'm like you, I'm like, I'm an implementer.
Let's make it happen. A good strategy isn't actually good if it doesn't ever, you know, see the light of day.
Yeah, for sure. So, I'd love to get into our little lightning round that I always ask guests on this show.
And first is what is your favorite part about copywriting?
Favorite part. So you're asking me a question and I'm like, I don't know, like what, I don't know if I enjoy any part of copywriting, right?

I feel like I'm like really good at it.
If I'm being, you know, completely honest here.

Not surprised to hear that.
I would say that, or what has helped me get better with my copywriting over time is really like understanding my ideal customer and working very closely with them.
I felt like when I struggled with my copywriting or like putting together a sales page or whatever the case may be, it really came down to I needed to go back and do a little bit more customer research and really delve into that a little bit more.
And I think once I did that, that's what helped me. The other thing I would say in, you know, is sometimes you just got to get it out there and get the offer out there and get people in it and then go back and say, okay, now I know so much more.
And I can go back and make the edits. And I would say that the majority of the sales pages I have done in the past year, and I probably at least have done 10 or more of them.
That's kind of where I found myself is I needed just to get it out, get people in there, start working with them and go in.
And that kind of led me to, okay, here's what I need to change.

Well, as a copywriter, I 100% co-sign, retweet, like, yes, you nailed it. It always, like, foundational, always goes back to understanding your ideal customer better.
And, like, I think so often we're like, you're ICA. Like, her name is, like, Sarah with an H. And, you know, she likes yoga, not Pilates, you know, like those things.
And it's like something you do with your first business coach. But, like, no, it's so much deeper than that.
And, like, when I do a messaging, brand messaging guide for my clients, I'm like, this is, like, minimal, a minimum of 50 pages long, sometimes 100.
I would say on average 70 to 80 pages is how in-depth we go with the psychology behind understanding your ideal customer.
So I love that you said like doing that customer research truly is going to clarify everything else and make everything else so much easier.
So anyways, I feel like that could be a whole nother episode. But what is something about copywriting that you wish was easier?

Oh, maybe it's a lot of things. For me, obviously, because I don't feel like I'm really good at it.
It could be a lot of different things. You know, sometimes, you know, you have the copy, but also trying to figure out, okay, where does it go?
Like on the page itself, to me can be confusing. Even with AI, I get like different answers there sometimes.
So, you know, sometimes I'll lay it out in, you know, based on what AI tells me and then I go back and like, that doesn't look right.
Like it's not like it's flowing the way, you know, I'm probably not saying this right because I'm certainly not a copywriter, but I feel like it's not flowing the way a customer would as they would read down through the webpage.
And I know that people come and jump around and all that good stuff, but I wish it would be easier to know where everything goes on the page itself.

Yeah, I'm glad you're even thinking about that. I think, yeah, some people don't even think about that. They're just getting the information on the page.
But yeah, it's definitely, there's, again, psychology behind that of like why we put things in the order that they do and format it the way we do and things like that.
So good, I love that you're, that is a good thing that your brain is thinking in that direction. And then what is a small joy outside of business that is fueling you right now?
So we're in the process of building a house. So joy slash stress. But it has been kind of fun, like picking out the land, picking out the design of the house, and, you know, picking, we've kind of right now kind of picking out the appliances and all the design elements in the house is kind of the stage we're in.
So I would say that that has given me a little bit of joy here.

Does it give you like your, this is my HGTV moment? I feel like I'm a real designer, which I am absolutely not, but I feel like I am.
Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. That's super exciting. That's great. Good. Well, you have shared so many great things to think about.
I think this is an episode where people are going to have to like, I should go back and listen to that and like take notes on the tripwires.
How, what is that going to look like for me?

How can I actually implement the things that you talked about here? And I think your flywheel of attract, engage, nurture, retain, advocacy —
to really think through that intentionally. What does that look like in your business? Listeners, like I'm asking you, this is not a rhetorical question.
Like what, in each stage, what does that actually look like for you? I think that would be a really powerful exercise to write out.
Think about what your tripwire is going to look like, your upsells, your order bumps, all those things, based on our conversation.
That could make a big difference in the amount of good quality traffic you get your way and also the retention that we talked about as well.
And I know that so many of our listeners have appreciated your depth, your expertise, your insight, your experience with doing all of this.
And so where would be the best way to connect with you further?

Yeah, so definitely my website, destinicop.com, super easy there. And I know that you have, Megan, a free gift for them that you're going to have the link in the show notes.
And kind of going back to that Creator's Growth Flywheel, this custom GPT is a diagnostic. So it will help you kind of go into your business and figure out what element or what stage, I should say, of the Creator's Growth Flywheel should you focus on first.
So going back to what you said earlier, Megan, kind of figuring out, okay, what tweaks or where should we go to if it's like the engage stage and kind of working on that tripwire.
If it's the attract stage or nurture stage, the diagnostic will help you kind of dive into that and figure out, okay, here's what you should do next or kind of focus on next.

Oh, that's perfect. I love that so much. I think so often it's like, I know I need to do this, but where do I even start is the first question.
So that is perfect. And yes, like Destini said, that is already linked in the show notes for you to click over there.
A fantastic tool. All right. Thank you so much for joining us today. Appreciate it.
Yeah, thanks, Megan. I had so much fun here today.