#9 Effective Strategies for Co-Parenting Success with Colette Fortin

In this episode of Untying Your Knot, Divorce Coach Lisa Gu and Mediator Colette Fortin discuss the complexities of co-parenting during and after divorce. They explore the emotional challenges faced by parents and children, effective strategies for maintaining a healthy co-parenting relationship, and the importance of communication and planning. The conversation emphasizes prioritizing children's well-being, managing high-conflict situations, and creating a supportive environment for children to thrive despite the changes in their family dynamics. 

In this conversation, Lisa Gu and Colette Fortin focus on parenting time, custody arrangements, and the emotional challenges involved. They emphasize the importance of communication, practice runs for shared parenting, and the need for emotional intelligence in modelling behaviour for children. The discussion also covers the transition into new relationships and step-parenting, as well as strategies for handling holidays and family traditions in a way that prioritizes children's well-being.

Want to learn more about mediation?
Connect with Colette and her team:
📞 (226) 705-1056
🌐https://fairwaydivorce.com/lp/waterloo-wellington/fairway/

Chapters

00:00 Understanding Emotional Dynamics in Divorce
05:58 Effective Co-Parenting Strategies
08:52 Communication Plans for Co-Parents
12:41 Prioritizing Children's Well-Being
15:30 Managing High-Conflict Situations
18:58 Creating a Supportive Co-Parenting Environment
22:54 Balancing Discipline and Routines
26:03 Navigating Competition and Time Sharing
29:04 Navigating Parenting Time and Custody Arrangements
37:57 Transitioning into New Relationships and Step-Parenting
44:39 Handling Holidays and Family Traditions During and Post-Divorce
50:10 Long-Term Perspectives on Co-Parenting and Child Well-Being

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Transcript

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (00:00)
if you are on this divorce or separation journey, you might be encountering some challenges about co-parenting,

And as a divorce coach, this is one of the biggest challenge I've seen in the whole process is the impact on our children of our divorce. regardless of their age, even ad ult children, they are impacted. And if you have been going through the divorce and then you're thinking about blending a family, you're likely getting into the territory of step parenting, which is also

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (00:08)
Okay.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (00:33)
very challenging and in different ways. That's why we have Colette here today to talk about all of this topics on co-parenting during and post divorce with us. Welcome Colette.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (00:44)
Thank you, Lisa. It's great to be here.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (00:47)
Collette is the owner of fairway divorce resolution in Waterloo, which has been in business for more than 10 years. Collette is a very experienced mediator herself and a resolution expert. She specializes in

family-centered conflict resolution She has helped guide hundreds of couples to a fair conclusion of their separation while helping preserve their family relationships, which is so key. I'm super excited to have you on the show, Colette. I know it's tough. It's a tough time for everyone. If we look at the

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (01:28)
Okay.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (01:28)
economic background. It has been tough for a couple of years, actually, you know, with COVID and now the impact of COVID. It's extremely hard to go through a divorce and separation during this time. I wonder if you can talk about what are some of the biggest co-parenting challenges people facing during divorce.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (01:47)
Well, thanks Lisa. I think I wanted to start by, I think it's important to acknowledge that nobody gets married expecting or moves in with a partner expecting that a separation is going to happen. And relationships, marriages come with expectations and promises and the journey to separation is not an overnight decision. It's often a very, very long process and it can be filled with such a mixed

bag of emotions. trying to separate the relationship from the parenting responsibility, probably the hardest thing to do because you're dealing with your own feelings about the separation. And then, when you have kids, let's face it, you can get divorced, but you will be forever connected. to this person. So

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (02:26)
Hmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (02:31)
There's no magic answer, but I'm glad that we're having this conversation today because I think educating yourself on what are some strategies that work and how to just take some time to really reflect on what are my goals and values around co-parenting, really, really important. So I really wanted to take a second. It's brave of your listeners to be journeying through this because...

Society wants us to hate each other. Society wants to feed on the drama of this divorce and separation. And here you have these one, two or three little people who love both parents and who actually have no interest in really, they just wanna be kids. They just wanna be kids. So how do you separate that? So really, really important to acknowledge and congratulate people for taking the time to listen and educate themselves on.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (02:59)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (03:20)
this challenging journey. So what are some of the biggest challenges, Lisa? Well, I would say it depends on what the pressure point was in the marriage. A lot of times, whatever the couple was dealing with when they were together, it's not gonna go away. You think, I'm just gonna divorce this person, I'm gonna be rid of them forever. Those pressure points, whether it's communication styles, whether it's different styles of parenting,

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (03:42)
Mm-hmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (03:45)
Flexible, experiential parenting versus structured parenting. Those we see play out in separation. Micromanaging your ex because one parent maybe did take the lead on the childcare, they may be more inclined or more interested, but really we divide roles in a marriage. So what happens is somebody's cutting the grass and somebody's reading the bedtime story. so.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (04:02)
Yeah.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (04:06)
by nature when you're separating and you're giving up time, whoever perceive themselves as sort of the primary, I don't like to use that kind of language, but the on point for some of that day to day, managing your expectations on what you can influence and what you can't, big, big topic that we work through.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (04:25)
I really love your point is that we're thinking about what are we separating, right? In a divorce or separation journey. So all of our old patterns and everything doesn't just get resolved because you have a piece of divorce paper. It's still, they're still lingering there. So be mindful of that and more reason to get extra resources and learning about how to do it more intentionally rather than just thinking, all problem are fixed. Now we're divorced.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (04:52)
Yeah.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (04:52)
If anything, it's the opposite. Now you're at two households, right? Being consistent alignment is even harder. So I love that you give us this reality check it's the residue.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (05:02)
Mm-hmm.

Yep, have to manage your expectations for sure. And as I said before, the pressure points that were there before, they're just gonna play out differently now. And so you have to decide how you're gonna navigate that.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (05:09)
Mm-hmm.

Mm I love that the pressure point is like a high pressure cook. It's like boom, if we don't manage it well. So great. That's a great start. So I've

got into contact with a lot of people that they're considering. I'm not saying you should or should not. And parenting, how to parent to the impact on their children is a big factor for them to make that decision to whether divorce or not. So can you share some common do's and don'ts for co-parenting effectively right before the start or even when they're thinking about going through this journey? Maybe they realize that

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (05:43)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (05:50)
themselves and their partner are not a good match, but they still wanted to maintain the intact of parenting as a team.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (05:58)
Parenting as a team. So I think whether you're separating or not, you gotta have a good plan. You need to have a good plan to be able to have the conversation around what are we going to, what do we need to be on the same page about?

what is important to our kids, what's important to us. I think predictability for younger children, and there's lots of good resources around how to navigate separation and divorce, or even just co-parenting in the house together. But there's some age specific and age appropriate for those people who are actually separating. know, lots of people throw out, 50-50, and they think the only way to get 50-50 is a week on, a week off.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (06:18)
Thank

Mm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (06:38)
While a good mediator is going to guide you through, listen, you've got a four and a six year old, let's talk about some alternate ways to share time that is equal, but not such long gaps in time between two households, because that's developmentally not the most appropriate schedule for young children. So I think having a good plan is really important. Having a communication plan. When is it appropriate to text each other?

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (07:02)
Mm.

Mmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (07:05)
under what situation, when should we use email and when should we be in person? And I like those pillars because, hey, I'm running five minutes late, that's an easy text thing. Johnny's failing grade nine math, maybe not a text message thing. Maybe that's a, we should go for coffee and discuss whether we're gonna talk about a tutor or what's gonna happen. Hey, I need to make a switch next month. My cousin is,

having an event and I'd like to attend, maybe that's an email. So really thinking about what's your communication plan. We've gotten so comfortable with texting and while it's sufficient, people don't always receive messages in the way they were intended. And we've seen lots of times where situations will explode because someone misinterpreted something.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (07:51)
Yeah, yeah, which will trigger more conflicts down the road, which is not what you need or want during this time. I think it goes back to I really appreciate goes back to your previous point that we have certain pattern that were carried through from when we were married. So this is a great time to reestablish some boundaries and including communication sometimes if we don't know, we

don't assume, just check in with your spouse. Like, is it okay if I text you if it's a five minutes short conversation? I'll write you an email or we can talk when we meet each other. So here are some great guidelines.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (08:20)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I think it's about planning, planning what the root, because the relationship is changing. It's ending in some respect, but it's not really ending if you have children. Because parenting is a lifetime job. I mean, the bulk of the work ends at 18, but it's still a lifetime job. So being able to actually plan what our communication.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (08:37)
Yes. Yeah.

It is.

Yep. Yep.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (08:52)
approach is going to look like. mean, there's so many resources, my family wizard and for some of the logistical pieces and managing finances through separation, lots of great resources for people to use to avoid having to. So one of the big things is don't have an important discussion in the hallway when you're picking up and dropping off the kits. the biggest thing, no matter what you're facing is you want to insulate your children from the conflict.

or even from the discussion, it's not always conflict, but suppose you've got a preteen who's asking if she can go to Halloween party this weekend. And one parent's like, you know, I'm not sure about the friend who's hosting. I've heard some things from other mothers. I'm just not sure. And one parent's like, yeah, sounds good to me. Here's a perfect example where you need to be aligned before you communicate to your child what the answer is and what the parameters are.

Otherwise, if one parent says, it's okay with me as long as your mom or dad says it's okay. Other parents says, no, I'm not comfortable. I've heard some things that hasn't been now they're put in the bad guy seat because a teenager is like, well, dad said I could, or mom said I could, why won't you let me go? So be on the same page, have a communication plan and make sure that whatever you're doing from a scheduling perspective.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (09:45)
Hmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (10:10)
that you consider the ages of your kids and don't ask them with the inquiry of, you have fun at your mom's and what did you do? And sort of like, or crying as they're leaving and now the kids are feeling guilty because they don't wanna, you know, they end up telling their teachers, I was a teacher for 20 years before I started this work. Like the guilt that they feel when they have a good time, you know, or a parent sabotaging a trip to Florida. Like don't go there because they'll just end up resenting you anyway

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (10:17)
Yes, yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (10:36)
in the future.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (10:37)
I love that. general principle, I think, it's really shield our children from whatever conflict you may have with your spouse, one, and then protect them. Like you said, they just want to be kids, whatever age they are. They might be four, they might be 14, they might be 40. And, you know, as a 40-year-old, they might not want to get into the drama of dad and mom. They just want to be your child.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (10:46)
you

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (11:03)
that's one and two, I think it's key is that if you want a healthy co-parenting relationship, you yourself have to show up as a parent and an adult. And whenever your inner child shows up, you don't want to throw a tantrum at your ex or anything. You got to be really aware to show up as a real adult. think that's key as well. Yeah.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (11:24)
I love that Lisa because listen, you know what each other's buttons are as a couple.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (11:29)
Mm-hmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (11:30)
So don't go there. If you know there's a button, don't go there. find an alternate way to deal with it. Get some professional help. Like think through, but we sometimes just get, as you say, the inner child gets ahold of us and our ego gets in the way. And in the same way that you shield, you shield your kids from.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (11:43)
That's okay.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (11:46)
violence in the world or you shield you make decisions as a family of what kind of exposure they're going to have to world events, social media, such and such. This is no different.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (11:56)
Yeah, yeah, violence and it could be verbal violence or anything. So I think our point here is manage your emotions, get help and support. And especially when your spouse, ex-spouse is not aligned and then as much as possible show up as an adult in this new dynamic. we kind of talked a little bit about the challenge is that

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (12:12)
Okay.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (12:20)
at this time, whether it's during divorce or post divorce, emotions are very high. how can as a divorce parent in the co-parenting journey, how do we make sure our children's well-being is taken care of when maybe ourselves are going through a lot of turmoil emotionally and the other side as well? And especially if we are in the

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (12:37)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (12:42)
in the negotiation, processing, mediation, right? We're talking about finances and here's this, how do we divide assets, da da, you have all the emotions and feeling it's unfair, likely. So how do we manage that and ensure our children's well-being is considered?

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (12:48)
Mm-hmm.

Well, and certainly the word compartmentalize can be really helpful. I had a client once tell me they would come back every year to recalculate child support and every year I would see them, it would become easier and easier. And I was like, they're getting along way better than they were five years ago. I asked them, well,

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (13:15)
Mmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (13:22)
What's the secret? Like what is it that the four children so they were going to be in this game for a long time And he said well, here's the thing now This is before lots of cell phones and I mean there were cell phones but he said I keep a picture of my kids in my wallet And whenever i'm going to send her a message Before I send the message. I look at the picture of my kids

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (13:24)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Mmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (13:44)
And I take a second. I think sometimes space in the gap between I have a feeling this is, and certainly introspective, this is a button that's being pushed before I respond. Emotional intelligence says, know yourself, know how you come across before you respond. Somebody else said, gotta put your relationship in the closet when you're co-parenting. It's irrelevant.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (13:47)
Hmm.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (14:07)
to the job of co-parenting. sometimes I tell people, before you hit send, ask yourself four questions. If you can't answer yes to all four, think again. Is what I'm about to say true? Is what I'm about to say necessary? Is what I'm about to say going to be helpful? And will it matter in a year from now?

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (14:11)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

I love it. This is Byron Katie's work. it's the key questions very similar because once you ask the second question, Is it absolutely true? You start to really think like, maybe I'm making up some stories in my mind. You start to do some introspect work and then you realize, I'm triggered. It's really about me.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (14:38)
Yeah.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (14:45)
not about the other person and then you can really take a step back. I love the example you shared as well. This is a very self-conscious, intentional parent and who you know will make great decisions. back to the point, ultimately, co-parents who succeed in co-parenting a different household is because they absolutely prioritize their children. That's it.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (15:09)
It's their job. It's your job. It's your job to in the same way

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (15:11)
Yeah.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (15:13)
Don't think for a minute they don't reflect and recall on their childhood. It's your job to provide them not just with education and the basics of life, but also role modeling healthy relationships. Role modeling when you have a difficult situation, because I know you're going to say, you don't know my ex and I get it. I get it. You don't know she's a he. Totally get that, that that is.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (15:25)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Hahaha

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (15:38)
That is tougher. It's like walking on eggshells. It's like, but you know what has, and if you don't know what has worked in the past, get some help to sort out what are some different same old, same old strategy is not going to result in a more peaceful environment. you know, what you are about to say might be true while he's such a, she's such, will it be necessary? Do you think that person's actually gonna

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (15:58)
Mm-hmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (16:02)
benefit from what you're about to say and most importantly, is this going to help this situation? It's not.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (16:03)
Thank

Exactly. Is it going to achieve what do you want to achieve or will it actually backfire? and especially now the good thing about separating, again, I'm not advocating for it or divorcing is that you will have your own space, right? Whether it's mental, actually also physical, you can take a step back. It's easier. Like you said, clients.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (16:30)
Yeah, there's very few text messages that have to be answered in the moment.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (16:33)
or even the phone call you can say

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (16:33)
lot of our clients will have a code word. We ask them to choose a code word. It's often the family pet, because that's often if they have a pet, everybody sort of smiles when they think about Rusty or whatever the pet is. they say, if either one of you texts or says the code word, that's permission to immediately end the conversation. Because sometimes people will say, well, we started a conversation, it was going well, we were having good flow, then we hit a hiccup and it spiraled. Okay, we'll catch the spiral.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (16:45)
Mmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (17:01)
As soon as it's happening, throw that code word down and say, let's come back to this later. Cause we don't have to answer it. I'm going to call rusty right now, Lisa. And I'll talk to you later. That's like permission to say I'm about to hang up or in the case of texting, I'm done this conversation. Cause when it's not going anywhere, it just deteriorates the relationship. Yeah. Strategies, right?

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (17:12)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and what's the point? Yeah, and ultimately the children will get hurt. And you talked about at the very beginning, you said, what are your goals? What are your values? So before entering into this plan or communication or anything, the person yourself needs to get really clear. What do you want for your children? What are your core values? Are you someone who is going to dump everything and complain and

about the other side to your children? Are you going to be asking your children to be the spy and tell you what's happening on the other side? And what's even the point? Exactly.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (17:53)
That doesn't align with your values exactly. And when we start a parenting meeting with our clients, we start with, tell us about your kids, but then also what is most important to you as parents? What is it that you want for your children? And we write it down on the chart paper or on a screen if we're on Zoom so that when they hit a hiccup of you never always and

How does that align with what you talked about earlier as your goal for your children to be compassionate or care about the environment or whatever it is that they value sports or whatever it is that you've described. And it's kind of like your own internal checkpoint to say, actually, that does not align with what we said was important.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (18:33)
Exactly, exactly. So alignment, think, as we say now, is checking with yourself is first step and then you can go approach the other side. But we all know, Colette, you probably seen it a lot and I've seen it a lot is that what we talked about the strategy or the style still kind of we have the foundation is that the other side can meet you or have this similar intention or

keeping the children well and happy is their top priority. And sometimes through this journey, we might get lost of ourselves, right? We might not be the best at, yeah.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (19:08)
Absolutely. And you know, I think we talked about trying not to micromanage. if you're going to have an expectations conversation and you're thinking about consistency of routines and discipline as an example. Okay, so get on the same page about the big pillars. Those are important. But kids actually can adjust to two different homes. You think about when you were young, if you went to this grandparents house,

You could have your snack on the couch and everything was all as well. And it was a bit more liberal. The other grandparents, maybe they had the plastic thing on the couch or you had to sit on the floor to have your snack. Kids will, they'll easily adapt to some of those smaller differences, if you will. So it's about managing your expectations around that so that it's consistent.

when it comes to big pillars like nutrition and bedtime and screen time, those are big pillars. but also letting go and it's hard because when you don't have your kids, whether it's half the time or whatever the schedule ends up looking like, you lose a little bit of control over, are they going to make their bed in the way that I think they should make their bed or are they going to do their, know, and you have to release some of that.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (20:09)
Yeah.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (20:16)
because kids do adjust and are able to compartmentalize, this is how we do things at dad's house, this is how we do things at mom's house, this is how we do things at grandma's house. They're smarter than we think.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (20:31)
Yeah, exactly. Definitely. you talked about consistency, How can parents maintain consistency in routines and even discipline, So it's okay to watch TV after 9pm at dad's house, but what if at mom's house, mom say absolutely no screen time, after 9pm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (20:49)
And I think that's where a good mediator can help the parties have a discussion. first and foremost, where are we aligned? Where are we not aligned? And how can we come to a space where we both feel okay about, sometimes it's meet in the middle and sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's about ensuring that

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (20:53)
Mm-hmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (21:10)
Each of you hears the why behind the concern. So if a child is, having lots of nightmares and they think it might be because of the pre bedtime screen time, could they try something different for a month and see if it has an effect? But, sometimes the parties get into this power struggle, but a neutral third party who's not vested into the relationship, you're just trying to control everything. So, I mean, I've heard it all right. And it's like, okay, let's take a step back and look at.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (21:13)
Hmm

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (21:36)
what's behind the question, what's behind the concern? And then a big thing with toddlers is eating. And so they don't always want to eat. And then there's a concern about is the child developing and how are we going to get on the same page about this? And so it's about having a space where you can have the conversation. Let's forget about who's right or wrong. Let's put that aside and say, what's going to be most effective? Of course, we're going to lean into the research. I remember

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (21:43)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (22:02)
a family having a discussion about Wonderland and thinking, the comfort level of one parent around some of the rise was very different. The circle of comfort was very broad for one parent and the other one not so. And so they had to actually get down and into the details, into the weeds with me about, okay, well, what's the first criteria that's going to disqualify is the height of the child, because that's, that mechanism is put in place, right?

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (22:13)
Mm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (22:27)
So then they were able to say, okay, there's no negotiating it, and they're able to drill down what criteria, choosing a summer camp, another perfect example, very broad, broad, that's a great place. I went there as a kid. Well, no, I want them to go. Okay, so what are some of the things that you feel are important in the summer camp? Let's identify that. Trained lifeguards, cabin ratio, counselor ratio, whatever it is that they come up with.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (22:37)
Yes. Yes.

Mm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (22:55)
then they can evaluate the choice against the criteria versus I think this is best. No, I think this is best. And then it becomes a power struggle instead of objectively evaluating what's most driver training been through that one. I want to see all of it, right?

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (23:11)
Yeah. Yeah. I love this point is that often and this, really apply across the board when we are going through the separation divorce journey on the legal front, when we get into conflict or disagreement is because ultimately it's really not about how we divide the house, how we divide parenting and which camp do we send our kids to is our ego saying, I want to prove to you that I'm right.

Ultimately, that's that power struggle. I know I'm right, And we're trying to find different ways to show and prove we're right because ultimately, is that we didn't feel seen and heard in our marriage and we wanted to be seen and heard and ultimately, yes, yes.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (23:49)
Yeah. It's a control. It's a way to get, it's a way to get back control and you know,

barring safety concerns, which we're going to put over here and say that absolutely is the place for court. Do you really want a judge to decide? Like they don't know the nuances, but here's the thing about parenting is that you come into a relationship, you have a child, you're bringing your beliefs, your history, how you were raised to the table, but so is the other person. so whether you're

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (24:04)
Yeah.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (24:20)
You know, I do have another business decided when I have more time is how to coach people how to enter into a relationship to avoid the breakup because we plan the wedding. It takes us a year and a half, two years to plan the wedding. Nobody's planning the marriage. We need to plan the marriage, right?

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (24:27)
Yes, I love that.

Yes.

So true, can't. Hallelujah. We don't learn how to do relationship, let alone marriage. Everything we learned is from likely our parents, right? And how they parented, how they, the dynamic between them in that their partnership. so much to learn and just to be aware that what's the point of arguing who is right, who is wrong if your children are hurt?

And you see they're impacted negatively ultimately. Right. So if you.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (25:08)
Thank you.

Yeah, the greatest myth is that kids from separated families will have a harder time in life. What is true is kids from high conflict separations will have a harder time in life. That's the difference.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (25:21)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's because we put something we might think we're putting them as priority, but our behavior and action are not aligned into that. and so important, as we mentioned, and my clients are the same, right? She did this. She said that. Can you believe this? They did that. And we have to see that. Yes.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (25:33)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (25:45)
in this very high conflict journey of divorcing the other party, whatever they did may be perceived or maybe outrageously, not only undermining or competing with your parenting style, but sometimes sabotaging as well. what are some suggestions for people in that kind of dynamic?

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (26:04)
Yeah, and I think Lisa, it's a continuum, right? So certainly on the one end, really amicable on the same page. On the other end, could be personality disorders, could be mental health issues, could be lots of different variables that are leading to that sabotage behavior. And sometimes as mediators, as we're working with people,

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (26:13)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (26:24)
You know, we talk about parallel parenting. So the further on the conflict scale you are, the less crossover you want to build into the plans to minimize. And the more clarity you want in the plan to minimize the gray areas of, and the more amicable people are, the more flexible they can be. sometimes you need that professional help to know, well, where do we fit on that continuum?

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (26:29)
Mmm.

Hmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (26:47)
Because to say, we're gonna discuss long weekends every year so that we share them equally is not gonna work if you have really poor communication and there's always, let's specify it now. So how do you avoid or how do you deal with competition and undermining? Well, I would say, first of all, kids are pretty intuitive. So they're gonna pick that up right away. So now they're gonna start to hold back what they say in each house.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (26:47)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (27:13)
Because I was, as I said, I was a teacher for 20 years. read a lot of 12 and 13 year old journals. So they tell their teachers a lot of things that they may not share with their parents. And I do have people say, I can't afford, like I can't compete. Look at the video system and this and that. So when people say that and they worry about the competitive and undermining, I ask a question, Lisa, when you were 11 years old, do you remember what you got for Christmas?

specifically when you were 11 years old? Can't answer that. But if I say, what's your fondest memories you have of your grandmother? You might say, the smell of her blah, blah, blah cooking, or the she would play games with us, or she would read to us, or... Because what resonates and what forms memories are emotional responses to those events.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (28:00)
Mm-hmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (28:01)
And that doesn't have to cost money.

So in the context of financial competition between houses, children will remember moments and timeline moments, and those often have very little to do with money.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (28:13)
Yeah, it's the energy you invest in this and also the experience as parents we're trying to create for our children that stay for a long time. love that. How about parents who are in the, for lack of a better word, fight for time with their children? That's tough. And a lot of people you've seen it, I've seen it spent

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (28:20)
Yeah.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (28:38)
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that because sometimes you feel stuck, have to go there and just fighting for that time.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (28:50)
And I would say that's probably the least favorite element of our job because it's such a, let's put the high, high, high conflict safety, whether it's physical or emotional safety, let's put those over there and say those do need parenting coordinators and voice of the children and all of that. So let's just not talk about that, but more sort of the garden variety of.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (28:55)
Yes.

Hmm?

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (29:14)
Ooh, I don't want to have to share so much time. They're my children and I don't want to have to ask you for time. And you know, nobody has to prove to the other. I had a lawyer once tell me this. My client doesn't have to prove to their spouse. It's not a license that the other party gets to grant. Yes or no. My perspective is often, let's find out what's behind the curtain. Because if you have a concern about bedtime or routines or

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (29:17)
Hmm.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Mmm, the wine.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (29:40)
yelling in the house or whatever. Whether you have 50-50 parenting or not, you're still gonna have that same problem. You can't get rid of the concern by having full people to throw that full custody of the, because most parents have parenting time. Alternate weekends, two evenings a week, right? Somewhere between alternate weekends and 50-50 is what has to get worked out. So.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (29:47)
Hmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (30:04)
Once you start to break that down and go, okay, well, if we're going to share every other weekend, and now two evenings a week from five to nine PM, are they going to sleep over or not sleep over? That's really the only difference. Of course, if the routines of homework are a problem, then let's put that on the table and talk about it. I often do an exercise what does it look like to have shared parenting? And if my clients live together,

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (30:16)
Yeah.

Mm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (30:27)
I'm going to encourage them to actually practice while they're in the house together. Cause some people have to stay in the house together while they're working the financial settlement out. So they're going to practice. They're going to practice. What does it mean to have 50 50? Well, it means you're doing tuck in, you're doing a load of laundry, you're making the lunches, you're getting them up in the morning, you're getting them to school. That's what it looks like. Cause that's what it's going to look like when you're in different houses. And sometimes people will practice that. I remember this couple of years ago, they gave me permission to talk about their situation, but

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (30:34)
Yes, in-house separation. Yeah.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (30:56)
It was going to be a hard no on shared parenting. Like I didn't think Mrs. Client was going to get there and I didn't have an agenda. I was just like, whoa, this is so we, we did the trial run in the house because they knew they were going to sell their house and they wanted to wait till they had a separation agreement. Smart idea before, because they didn't know who was going to go where. But so they practiced and about a month in she came back and it was clear like this is what it looks like to do shared parenting.

One of the pressure points was he didn't help around the house. That's part of why. So, so came back to it. She was having a financial meeting with me and she said, my goodness, I can actually work late two nights a week because I know he has the kids. I signed up for that yoga class I never got to do. And he's actually doing the things. And if he had done that,

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (31:23)
Yeah, very common, very common, yes.

Yep.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (31:43)
when we were together. And I'm not picking on guys as a kid, you know, it's not about that. And sometimes people come to me and go, like, you know what? This is too much for me. My career is just way to shift work. It's just, it's too much. So let's talk about a different schedule. So it's, it's an opportunity to practice gives your kids a chance to get used to fighting for time. It's just, it's a bit of a lose lose, honestly.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (31:44)
Yeah, yeah, it could be reversed as well. Yeah.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (32:07)
I had an elementary school teacher once just like us overnights during the school. That's just not going to. So they did a hybrid. So during the school year, the kids did go see the other parent, but came back at night. But in the summer they did 50 50 because the pressure was the routine before school. That was the pressure point.

So if you can identify what the pressure, you're just trying to take my kids away from me. Of course, a good mediator is going to probe and find out what is behind the curtain.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (32:29)
Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah, I love, love, love, love that every situation is different. I think that's really we don't want to end up in court because it's like someone you don't know who make that judgment and working with through mediation that will give you a lot of flexibility. I really, really love what you said, the practice run. So I have people who are considering, but nobody is 100 percent sure. Like maybe.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (33:02)
You don't know what you're signing up for. Yeah.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (33:02)
There's some odd cases. Exactly. 100 % sure. this is definitely, I mean, they're not even sure if this is absolutely they want the divorce, right? And they were like, if he would do that, she would do that. They might consider continue. I think that would be really worth exploring. Even if you're in that phase of thinking, maybe have a conversation with your partner, right? And if the marriage hasn't been good for a long time, it's not news for the other party as well. Just sort of test it out.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (33:28)
Yeah.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (33:31)
If we separate our household, can you actually handle the 50 % time? You know, if you you're someone who haven't really packed the kids lunch or take them to school or after.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (33:43)
That doesn't mean that you can't. It's just something that, you know, the reality, Lisa, when people separate, everybody's got a learning curve. The person who didn't do the finance has to learn to do the finance. The person who didn't do the menu planning, like, cause we, I don't know too many people who sit down and do a hundred percent of everything together in a relationship. There's no time. You divide and conquer the jobs,

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (33:49)
Yep. Great point. Yeah.

yep, there is no time.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (34:06)
And it's just, think when it comes to kids, if one parent did do more of the heavy lifting, the other parent can either, and again, the more conflict there is, the more this is exacerbated, can feel like they're losing control or that somehow there's a leverage even the, the Divorce Act getting away from this whole notion of what are the children used to? I mean, yes, to some degree, you have to manage that.

especially for young, young children, of course, but it doesn't mean the other parent can't. So you have to get what's behind the curtain. it's hard to separate, we talked about emotion, and it's hard to separate emotion of the relationship with the role of co-parents, but I hope and tell people, if you sabotage your ex deliberately in front of your children or criticize them, when you're 80,

or 85, your kids are picking your nursing home. So what do you want to instill in them? I don't want them thinking, this is not too, but like respect.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (35:04)
Yes. And also I tell my clients that never sabo tage your other parent, no matter what. and never say any bad word in front of your kids. You know why? Because mom or dad is part of your kids. When you say something about dad or mom who are not good, who were terrible. It stays with your kids as well.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (35:19)
Yep.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (35:26)
of their core so don't do that no matter how angry or unfair you feel

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (35:27)
Mm-hmm.

Yep. And it will, you will, they will resent you. And really the focus, especially if a child is having difficulties communicating with a parent and, yeah, well, your mother was always, that's not helping the child. It's like, think about it this way. If your kid had a part-time job and they had a difficult boss, wherever they're working, as a parent, you're to coach them through how to communicate with their employer.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (35:36)
Yes.

Yeah.

Yep. Yep.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (35:56)
what they're struggling with. Like I'm really finding it's, you what you're not, while your boss just quit that job, right? How you're not teaching your child the life skill that they need. So it's an opportunity to empower your kids to learn how to navigate difficult situations, whether it's the co-parent, whether it's, you know, a teacher they don't like, I'm just going to quit. So

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (36:02)
Yep, yes.

Yep. Yeah. Great point. It's that when you're there for your kids through this difficult conversation or difficult transition, you're setting them for success for their future intimate relationship as well. Because like you said, your role modeling how to handling these challenging situations. It's huge and you will reap the benefits years later and when you manage yourself. So come back to that.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (36:32)
That's fine.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (36:41)
if you can have a practice run whether you're in-house separation, you're considering you can have that open conversation with your spouse and soon to be ex-spouse, do that because it will give yourself

understanding of your own capacity and also the other side. So I think that's a great suggestion. Continue to talk.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (36:57)
I think when people are in the house together, they can do some informal nesting and nesting is where they might take turns on weekends, being the parent on duty with the kids. And the other parent may go to a friend's or may, it gives the couple the parties space and grace. It gives the kids space and grace, but they're still living in the same house. But it's just kind of giving that little bit of breathing room and then practicing. Like if you've got a three year old who only got tucked in by

parent A because parent B was dealing with the five-year-old and that's just how they did it. There's some cross training for the kids too that needs to happen, right? So,

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (37:34)
Yeah. Yeah. And it's, we'll just ease into the transition when they actually separate. So I love that advice if we go on a job, we practice, right? We have a three months of probation. Like really, why shouldn't we do this here? So I want to transition into a different phase. You know, if you are divorced and you may be considering entering into another relationship.

And it's very common to get into a new role as a step-parent, whether it's from whoever's side or as we blend family. This is a big step. I see a lot of people underestimate how much work and planning and intention we need to set into this, especially when both sides of the family are from divorced family, right? Both sides of the kids.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (38:21)
.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (38:24)
are from divorced family. And I have clients who've been through their second divorce, right? So it's clearly very common. when is a good time to introduce the new partner to the kids? I know a lot of people do have that concern and how can we make sure our kids are well during this transition?

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (38:33)
Okay.

just as I said earlier I don't think there's a magic answer as to this is six months eight months one of the things that we talk about is allowing a bit of space between the separation of the Parents if they haven't even got their separation agreement the move hasn't happened yet. Like if you're in a new relationship, that's great We coach our clients keep that quiet. Let the kids adjust to the two-home situation first whatever that looks like and

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (39:06)
Mmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (39:07)
Sometimes what can be really helpful is distinguishing between I'm dating someone and I'm in a relationship with someone. Because the research shows that kids don't want to know you're going on a date. If you're on a dating app and you know what, that's moving on as a healthy part of the transition. So this isn't about that. But they don't put them in the role of best friends, especially preteens or teenagers, right? You still got to create some of that separation. if you think about, if you were to identify this individual as

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (39:15)
Mm.

Mm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (39:35)
I'm in a relationship with this person versus I am dating this person. If you're in the I am dating this person bucket, maybe not a great idea because if it doesn't work out, kids get attached very quickly and they don't really need to know and teenagers don't want to know their parents dating. They just, they don't.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (39:47)
Yes.

Because they might be dating themselves. They were like, yuck. My parents are dating me.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (39:57)
They don't want to, and statistically, both parties will repartner within three to five years. 80 % of people are going to have a new partner. So we come back to the concept of, respect for one another can be, Hey, John, you know, I've been dating someone for nine months now. I just want to give you the heads up. I'm going to be introducing the kids to some people even go so far as having the other parent meet.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (40:03)
Mm-hmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (40:24)
the new person before the kids. mean, that's an individual decision. It's all about how amicable you are. I mean, I know people who used to get in the van together, mom and her partner and dad and his new wife and the kid, and they'd go to hockey because gas was so expensive. Everybody's going to the tournament together. mean, that's maybe an extreme amicable situation, but who says it has to be acrimonious, right?

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (40:26)
First, yeah. I love that.

Mm-hmm.

Yes, yes. I, I love this so much and a lot of my clients and lot of my friends too, like I see going through divorce and too quickly they're jumping into a new relationship. again, here's the key that divorce is a huge transition, huge, probably one of the biggest transition in our lifetime. And,

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (41:31)
Somebody said we're too

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (41:10)
Take some time for yourself to really find who you are, right? Like we talked about, what are your values? And now you're single again, what are you trying to achieve career wise, also personal wise, right? What kind of parents do you want to become? So get a little bit of clarity on that front will help you in a long, long way because let's face it. Yeah, divorce is a traumatic.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (41:33)
Somebody said, we are two good people who are just not good together. But if you don't do the work, and I know this is a whole other topic we can talk about, but if you don't do the work, to understand what did you contribute? Because it's very easy, this is both, and he's this, and you don't know my ex, and she, and she. Whatever it was, there's an internal opportunity to reflect on, well, what is it that I contributed to this relationship? It doesn't have to be about

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (41:38)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (42:01)
Fault or blame.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (42:02)
Yeah. Because once you get back on the dating app and trust me, I'm in this journey is that you will be triggered and you'll be like, my God, why am I feeling this way? It's terrible, right? It's not about sunshine and rainbow. So take some time to really reflect on yourself, heal yourself and so that the chance of having a healthier relationship, will be higher and also be

extremely considerate before you introduce someone into the kids life. They're so sensitive and kids pick up anything and vulnerable regardless of what the age they are. So just really checking with yourself many times. don't rush that decision.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (42:44)
And if your ex is the first one to repartner Watch yourself because I think the number one criteria you want the lens through which you want to look at this other person is How do they treat my kids and how do my kids feel in their presence? And if the kids have a good time

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (42:52)
Hmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (43:00)
are treated with kindness and respect.

how you feel about your ex's new person.

Just think about the lens through which you want to look at that situation because it's going to give them permission. Again, permission to be kids. If your kids like their stepmom, isn't that better? You're always going to be their mom. You're always going to be their dad. Like that's not going to change. It doesn't have to be a competition. And kids have the capacity to expand.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (43:20)
Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yes. Yes.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (43:29)
their love for different and they evaluate that's what I love about kids they're so authentic it's very easy for them how do you treat me and how do you make me feel whether it's a teacher a coach a friend a potential step parent a step sibling that's the lens through which they evaluate

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (43:38)
Yes, yes.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (43:48)
and they have less ego around that stuff than grownups do.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (43:51)
Yes, and also I love your emphasis on neutrality, Approach this with a neutral attitude and to really again, is it the best for my kids? And putting our emotions about that person, their relationship or maybe some jealousy coming come from our ego on the back burner. And and you know, if they rush into a relationship too quickly, more reason for you to do the work to heal yourself.

There is not a competition who gets into a new relationship or it's a trophy or something. thank you for that. think step parenting, blended family, that can be almost another episode. It's something that really we don't talk. Yeah, we don't talk enough about because we just think, two people fall in love. And then, of course, everything is going to work. It's lot of challenges and have a lot of respect for people who blended family and really.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (44:18)
No, absolutely not.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (44:40)
consider everyone in that situation intentionally. I want to just have my last question, which is as we are getting closer to the holiday season, I know it can be really hard for families, especially their newly separated or still haven't really established their own traditional routine. So any suggestions for handling?

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (44:44)
Thank you.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (45:06)
Take holidays like this. Maybe they're still fighting over time with sleepover or not to make sure that our kids have a positive experience and yourself too.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (45:15)
I think that having a clear plan on how you're going to share the holidays. Lots of people still celebrate together. That's awesome. But have a backup plan in the event that you don't in the future. It's not easy. And I'm going to use Christmas as an example, because that's the busiest day. lawyers tell us the busiest day in family court is the Friday before Christmas.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (45:33)
Mm-hmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (45:36)
because people don't have their parenting arrangements figured out. School is out now and there are just, there's a lot. So we always make sure people have a plan, but it's hard to imagine dividing time. Like the 25th in the morning as an example or whatever traditional celebrations your family participated in are going to probably need to change or shift. And

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (45:39)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (46:02)
depending on the holiday itself, the day itself can be quite significant and you can't cut the child in half. So you got to figure out, okay, are we going to alternate years or, am I the kind of person who maybe is less sentimental about that? I know I've got to establish a new routine. You know what, is this something that I can work with and just, fair's not always equal.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (46:24)
Yes, yes.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (46:25)
So have to decide, you know what, this is really important to, because extended family, always get together on, I'd or whatever it is that they're doing. my family lives 2000 miles away. I don't need to take my children away from what they know as extended family time. I want some time for sure. We have to figure that out, but I'm prepared to release that in the, because again, kids.

are going to remember, well let me ask you this, for the traditional Canadian Christmas, would you want to eat four turkey dinners over the course of two and a half days? I don't think so. No you would, please not turkey. So is there an opportunity to do something else?

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (46:58)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love that to really step back and to re-evaluate. I also love your example earlier is what will your kids remember? What will your kids remember? And E.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (47:17)
The beach party Christmas Eve, the beach party Christmas Eve where we turned up the heat and we had a beach party with fruit fondue and that's what they're gonna remember, right?

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (47:30)
Yeah. And does it matter? It has to happen in the morning of the 25th, right? Is it okay if the 27th they wouldn't remember? So so key to to think about. also another thing I see people they see if they keep retrieving, like compromising, they consider is as a failure Really just think about back to your goals and values.

What are the absolutely things you wanted to insist on? What are some things you just be like, OK, not a big deal. So only you can decide, you, the individual, of course.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (48:07)
100%. Do I want to be right or do I want to be happy? Does it have to be equal or do I want peace?

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (48:14)
Absolutely. think for all the clients I talked to, ultimately they want peace and contentment. And we all want that. And sometimes we have to decide to let it go because divorce is a journey of detachment with all the dreams and all the relationship we had. And that's a bigger topic. So.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (48:33)
And here's the thing, last thing I want to leave people with. You have your kids for 18 years as your dependent children. Then you have another 50 or so years with them as adults. So this is temporary.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (48:44)
Yes, Long term view. Absolutely. We talk a lot about long term review and even when the kids hit 12, they have the decision right to to who to go, whatever. So more reason for you, regardless of how hard it is right now, it seems to be that consistent parent because consistency will get you a much longer way. I so appreciate you saying that, but I do want to ask.

Is there any other piece of advice you want to bring to people? Anything else? I didn't ask that you really want to emphasize in the journey of co-parenting.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (49:15)
Just know that it takes practice. It also takes two to fight. You can choose to engage or find a workaround. And at the end of the day, the kids do not count hours. If I were to say, could you please tell me the percentage of time that you spent growing up?

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (49:17)
Mm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (49:31)
One-on-one with your father versus your mother you cannot answer that mathematically Children deserve a healthy relationship with both parents They deserve consistent time with both parents We have that responsibility to do that and Just always ask yourself keep that big picture in mind and because when they're 18 and 19 and 25 and How you've set that foundation for them?

is what's really the long game is my adult relationship, my relationship with my adult children.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (50:05)
Yes, And future generations' relationship as well because time does fly and yeah.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (50:11)
That's Farrah is here. I I left the classroom, Lisa, because, and I went back to school 15 years ago, because I could see, I saw so many kids over 20 years, kids whose parents were in amicable separations and kids whose parents worked. And I could see the impact it was having on these 12 year olds. And I remember the young girl who wrote in her journal,

I don't know why I can't see my mom. I don't understand what's going on. And I invited her to lunch. She was new to the school, so I didn't really know much of the background. And so we had lunch together and we talked. And I said, how old were you when your parents separated?

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (50:39)
you

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (50:50)
She said, well, sometimes I just think it's all my fault. Everything is my fault. And she started crying. And I thought, well, maybe she's not getting along with her mom. And that's why they decided, I didn't know the background. So I said, well, how old were you when your parents separated? And she looked at me and she said, I was one. So for 11 years, this young lady carried the burden of her parents conflict.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (51:05)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (51:10)
And as a result, blamed herself. And in that moment, I knew we have to do better. We have finally mediation is becoming the go-to alternative for people to say, look, it's emotional, it's difficult, there's legal stuff, let's put safety over here. Let's find someone who can guide and coach us. Cause a good mediator is gonna be your coach, your guide, your facilitator, your negotiator, if you're dealing with finances, but choosing a process that's going to actually

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (51:13)
Hmm.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (51:38)
set you up for success right from the beginning instead of two sides. My lawyer said, and my lawyer said, how can you establish a healthy foundation once you've been through that? I had a lawyer say one time, the traditional system is like a hurricane.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (51:52)
Yeah, and trust me, lawyers hate that as well. Family lawyers, don't like the system as well. They hate dealing with all these parenting fights and nobody likes that. wants that. yeah, nobody wants that. So more reason to have more conversation. So I thank you so much for sharing and I just want to share my...

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (51:55)
It's not their fault.

They're burnout. Yeah.

There, yeah.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (52:15)
own experience a little bit. I'm not co-parenting my kids full time. But I just want to send a message to all of the parents too during this time is very tough. It's okay depending on how old your kids are when you're not in a good emotional space to tell your kids and to ask for some space from them. I think my kids are now four and nine. I've had times told them like, hey, mommy's not.

in a good space, I just really need some time by myself. And I just need 20 minutes and then I can come and spend time with you. So it's okay to even take some time and step back because sometimes it's your ex who sends a triggering email. You just need some time to digest. Maybe you need to take a walk or have a talk with your therapist. know, it's okay. We're not perfect. We're human. We will be triggered. We will be in a not so good state.

And it's OK. It's the overall trajectory how you parent that matters, not one single event.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (53:15)
Okay.

And I think Lisa, more important, most importantly, and as importantly, maybe that's a better way to say it. You are role modeling emotional intelligence for your kids. When you say, I'm feeling overwhelmed right now, I need a minute, you're teaching, you're giving your kids the language to be able to also use in their future lives, as opposed to yelling at them and then apologizing because you were, which we've all done and it happens and it's not about blame and shame, right?

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (53:36)
Mm-hmm.

done it. Yes.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (53:44)
But you're actually role modeling emotional intelligence and you say, I had a really busy day at work and I need a minute. Wow. That also says it's not you, it's not your fault. What can you do for 10 minutes while mommy just makes a tea?

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (53:50)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you for that. And again, I'm not perfect. I've yelled and there are bad days as well. So last night, my son insisted on sleeping with me, I said, Look, mommy had a really busy day. not feeling very well. I don't think today is going to work right. It's okay, like for us to say that and depending on how old your kids are, I mean, obviously use the language they can understand so that they don't feel it's a rejection. But

I just want to acknowledge how tough this journey is. It's okay to give yourself that grace and time and space. So thank you so much, Colette, for spending time with us to talk about such important topics. And we can easily talk for another hour. But before I let you go, where can people find you and where can people find your company as well?

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (54:26)
It's huge.

So we are Fairway Divorce and Fairway has offices across Canada, but we are the sort of Ontario office and we're in Waterloo. Having said that, about 80 % of our clients actually do what's called hybrid mediation, which means that they're either fully on Zoom or sometimes in person. We have five mediators now and very excited about the team that we have in place and they're here to help support and guide you.

Relying on the internet for information when you're going through this is overwhelming. Relying on your friend at the water cooler for advice, sometimes they mean well, but everybody has their own experience. Having a neutral person to guide you and your ex through, gone are the days that it has to be a legal battle unless absolutely necessary. So take a minute, take that first step, come in, meet with the mediator, learn about how the process works.

Because everybody wants the same thing, to protect the children. And the best way we can do that is by ensuring that your relationship is as healthy as possible. And it's not therapy. And there is a process because there's laws and there's child support and there's child support and all of that stuff. And traditionally we used to think I have to immediately retain a lawyer. Not so much anymore unless there's safety concerns.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (55:49)
Yeah.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (56:03)
Mediation is a very, very effective way for people to move through, minimize the emotion, minimize the damage of the relationship so they can move through and get on with their lives.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (56:17)
Absolutely. If you want some flexibility and to tailor to your own situation, also exploring some alternatives and mediation is definitely. I don't want to say better, but an amazing option. I know, Colette, you have people who've been through. Yeah, exploring.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (56:31)
Yeah, I think it's worth looking into exactly people, people owe it to themselves and their kids. And, you know, two of our team are actually lawyers who left the legal profession to come and do mediation. And sometimes people are worried, well, I need a lawyer, I know my rights. And a good mediator is going to educate you along the way so that you are making informed decisions as you navigate through

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (56:43)
Mm-hmm.

Awesome. Thanks again, Collette. You can find her service and company by searching Fairway Divorce, and we will also add all the contact information and website. Thanks again, Collette, for joining us today, and we'll see you next time.

Colette Fortin Fairway Divorce (57:07)
Thank you.

Take care, Lisa.