#17. Divorce Guide: How to Support Your Teen with Colette Fortin

Last week, something happened that stopped me in my tracks.

I recently hired a coach who specializes in working with neurodivergent teens for my son. I was so proud of myself for being proactive… until I told him.

My almost-11-year-old looked at me and said:
“You didn’t ask me first?!”

I was speechless.

He was right.
I am still treating him like a little kid, planning his life for him without realizing he’s a tween now.
He is at a new stage of life, forming his own identity and sense of autonomy as a sovereign being. 🤯

Big Transition for Everyone
Teenagers (and pre-teens) are already navigating hormones, identity shifts, and big emotions. When you add separation or divorce into the mix… it can become overwhelming for everyone.

That’s why in this new episode of Untying the Knot, I sit down with mediator Colette Fortin from Fairway Divorce Solutions (Kitchener–Waterloo) to talk about practical ways to support your teen through this transition.

Here’s what we get into:

✨ How to break the news to your teen without emotional overload
✨ If (and how) to ask for their input on living arrangements
✨ Balancing structure and flexibility for older teens
✨ What to do if your teen refuses therapy or doesn’t want to see the other parent
✨ Introducing new partners, navigating graduations, and how to keep your teen out of the crossfire

If you’re lying awake wondering:
“Is my teen really okay?”
This episode will give you grounding, language, and tools you can use right away.

And if you want more practical tips, Colette also created a short guide for parents navigating separation with teens.

 👉 Read it here: A parent’s guide to divorce and teenagers: supporting adolescents through family change

https://fairwaydivorce.com/resources/blog/a-parent-s-guide-to-divorce-and-teenagers-supporting-adolescents-through-family-change/

Follow me for inspiration and tips on how to reinvent yourself through divorce:
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I'm here to support you to turn the chaos into clarity and create a life you love! 💪✨

Transcript

Lisa (00:18)
Hi everyone, teen agers are in this incredibly raw and transitional stage of life. If you know the hormones, the attitudes and the confusion about their new identity, it's a lot for parents to navigate through this very unique stage of their kids' life. I have a almost 11-year-old boy. I'm already feeling it. But if we add divorce into this mix

when the family dynamic shifts and routines change, it can be a lot That's why today we have an expert, Collette Fortin, an experienced mediator of Fairway Divorce Solutions Kitchener Waterloo, an organization who has been helping families navigating their separation and divorce for 15 years to talk about this very important topic. Welcome to the show again.

Colette

Colette Fortin (01:06)
Thanks Lisa, it's great to be here.

Lisa (01:08)
Collette had put some specific resource for this Very important topic I know three of my clients who are navigating ⁓ separation and divorce are in this boat. They all have teenager kids and they're asking how can I better support my teenagers.

In some cases, they have their own life and barely talk to their parents. So let's just dive in. When it comes to breaking the news to their teenagers about their separation is always difficult. Parents often overthink because the stakes are very high. Can you share some best practice around this?

Colette Fortin (01:46)
Certainly, part of the work we do as mediators is certainly the finance piece, but then when we're talking about the kids, I think planning the conversation is really important. This isn't the kind of thing you just want to ad lib. And so a couple of best practice elements of this that we like to talk to clients about is, first of all, keep it general. Telling them the specifics of who initiated and...

why the relationship is ending. That's a big bite for teens to handle. And certainly sometimes people say, well, I want to be truthful with my child. And that's not the truth that we generally one person may not want to separate. So you can say, listen, the decision to live in different houses is what, we have made, or you could even say something like,

Relationships are complicated and the relationship between your dad or your mom is very private and know that we didn't make this decision lightly. So keep it general. We're going to live in different houses. Don't tell them the details of the why and also be aware of not making promises like we're going to keep the house or you're not going to change school unless you know that for sure.

the frame of what's gonna stay the same and what's gonna change and what we don't know yet is very helpful for teens. But most importantly, you should be together when you tell them. Do not have one parent tell the kids ahead of time. No matter what your emotional and listen, I get it, cause I've been doing this work for a long time. This is very emotional and it's raw and it comes with a history of a relationship that may have two very different perspectives.

This isn't about trying to necessarily align on why we're separating because that's also a bigger topic, but rather let's set our relationship aside when we're dealing with the kids. And so that's of some big pillars. I've heard a lot of people also, Lisa, talk about when they tell their kids, especially teenagers, they're going to either plan an activity if there was a family tradition of

board game night or movie night or bowling or a favorite restaurant. Because teenagers need time to process. You need to give them that space to do that. So you're telling them this big news and then what? They go to their room and so I have heard countless times when I put that out there as an idea. It's sort of is like we're together and it's an icebreaker, but we're not needing to like talk, giving them that space. So planning an activity after you tell them.

allows you to be together but also gives the kids that moment to breathe

Lisa (04:15)
Yeah, I really, I love that idea. It's something to anchor on, like an activity. oh, I'm just going to go to my bedroom to ruminate on this and that can be hard. also I would imagine an activity you would already do as a family before. if it's something new they might attach it with an emotional, like, oh.

Colette Fortin (04:25)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Lisa (04:36)
I did bowling when my parents told me divorce, maybe something you've already done. Yeah, that would be great. And I love when you talk about it think we mentioned last time too, really separating your relationship with your ex spouse. And then that piece of being the co-parent, it's very hard, but it's also very important. And another thing you talk about, I always encourage my clients

Colette Fortin (04:39)
Yeah,

Yeah.

Yeah.

Lisa (04:58)
It's hard. You're in an emotional roller coaster already, Shield your kids as much as possible from that divorce details, whether it's why or the legal side of things, how to divide things. It may be hard when you have a teenager, they may ask questions, but again, keep it like you said, not sharing the nitty gritties with them. your dad said this, your mom said this, this is enmeshment. They don't need this. And honestly,

Colette Fortin (05:05)
Mm-hmm.

absolutely.

Yeah.

Lisa (05:25)
It doesn't matter whether your kids are four or 14 or 40. Shield them.

Colette Fortin (05:31)
Yeah,

shield them. Because I think at the end of the day, you enmesh them in all of the nitty gritty, then you're indirectly asking them to choose sides. Because we do have this thing about whose fault it is. And there's two people who were in a relationship together, but the marriage was very different. His marriage, her marriage, like party one, party two, right? So how can you possibly

put the child in the middle of that, their loyalties are challenged, relationships are complicated and teens are not necessarily in a space to be able to understand that. And the research is so clear, the easier you make it on each other, the easier it's going to be on your kids.

Lisa (06:11)
That's a big ask in a lot of situations, but I think the key, yeah, so hard. The key point is allow your kids to be kids.

Colette Fortin (06:15)
Swallow hard, your tongue.

your best friend or your coworker. You need a place to vent for sure. This is not about candy coating I certainly after doing this work for so long, understand that there are some pretty raw and difficult situations that lead to separation. I am not in any way trying to candy coat that. But as parents, we do have a responsibility to shelter our kids, whether it's images of

of war on television or you're always filtering for your kids. What is an appropriate movie to watch? How do you wanna navigate certain music types, You're constantly doing that and this is no different.

Lisa (06:49)
Yes.

Yeah, don't create more noise for the kids when it's already hard during this time. I love that. And also Colette it brings 20 years of experience as an educator. You've also seen a lot of that when you were a teacher. let's talk about teenagers specifically When they're 14, they're moving into this

Colette Fortin (07:03)
Yeah, exactly.

Lisa (07:17)
this independent person. They want agency. They want their voice heard. but also they're not that person yet. Should you ask your teenager when it comes to living arrangement or parenting plan, should you consult their opinions?

Colette Fortin (07:31)
Really big question. So many times I get the, well, my child is 13, they can decide. And the true answer whenever I consult with lawyers is the legal age is there for a reason. There's a guardianship responsibility. Having said that, there's a difference between saying, who do you want to live with versus your dad and I have decided or your mom and I have decided that we're going to try this schedule, whether it's shared parenting or not.

50-50 people call it. Some people do that, some can't, for various reasons or don't. Say we're going to try this and we're going to check in with you to see what's working, what's not working. Because we want to give teenagers voice, but not necessarily a vote or control. Because they're still teenagers. There's a reason they're under your care and you're responsible to provide structure for them.

If it's a question of who do you want to live with? Wow, like would you want to have to answer that question? What kind of guilt? Like even if a child says, kind of want to stay more here or there, what works for them? especially in a dispute situation, the word guilt is what psychologists talk about 10 years later when they see clients and say, my parents put me in the middle and I felt really guilty. So what's working, what's not, how can we best support you during this time?

Lisa (08:29)
I don't know.

Hmm.

Colette Fortin (08:50)
You know, that is appropriate because you do want your teen to have voice. There's so much that they're getting ready to spread their wings and leave the nest. And obviously the closer they are to 18, because in grade 12, you're still under your parents' care at 17. That's a little bit different than a 13-year-old, but it's a really, really delicate one.

Lisa (09:12)
And I'm just thinking, I was talking to a friend yesterday. she has a 25 year old, still living home and our kids mature later compared to 20 years ago. So even if when they're 18, it's a delicate balance between parental authority and asking for their voice. I love what you said. Frame the conversation.

Colette Fortin (09:30)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (09:34)
with respect. Like I want this to be the most smooth and comfortable for you. And then open that door, say it can always be a point of discussion. think that I just take that pressure off a bit or say, um, John, what do you want? Like, do you want to live with dad? 70 % that's just too much pressure.

Colette Fortin (09:41)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I mean,

it this way. Would you say to a 15 year old, what do you want your curfew to be and give them full voice? No, you're gonna have some parameters, boundaries around some of these conversations. And this is no different. And I know we're gonna talk about, well, what if my child doesn't want? We're gonna talk about that in a minute, but barring those situations where there are significant issues between the parents, I've seen it. I cannot tell you how many times parents will tell me,

two, three weeks into the process when they've talked to their kids and they've had that approach, wow, things are flowing so well. And they have their hiccups for sure, but keeping the kids at the center is so important.

Lisa (10:33)
Yeah, it's key. And you might try something that your children may not feeling comfortable and then just stay nimble and flexible. So important. And that's why it's so important to have that open channel with your ex partner as well. And to really put the kids best interests at the forefront. but teenagers I think another complexity, cause when I went through my divorce, my kids, I mean, they're still little.

You have a lot of influence and also you're transporting them a lot, but teenagers have their own lives. And I was talking to a lawyer working with a client. The lawyer said, my sons don't want to hang out with me anymore. And even on special days, so they have their own lives, but they also have this family. Now it's separating. They have their friendships, right? Sometimes they work at McDonald's, they have sports, all of that matters to them.

Colette Fortin (11:00)
Ha ha!

Lisa (11:19)
we talked about the parental authority, how can we draw the line of flexibility, but also some non-negotiables for older teens living in the two household?

Colette Fortin (11:32)
Well, I think you identified it so well that the transition from parenting an 11-year-old to parenting a 15-year-old and that difference is quite significant. And the word is independence and freedom. I mean, they are supposed to spread their wings. Our job is to get them ready for adult life, which means they may be comfortable taking city transit. They are involved in sports. So you may have developed and you will likely have developed some sort of schedule with your teen. It could be alternating weeks.

there's a variety of different schedules that people sort of anchor around with the idea that, if Joey is supposed to sleep at dad's on a Wednesday, but mom is actually going to drive him to Burlington for his soccer game, and they're not going to get home till 10 30 on a practical basis, the child probably would just sleep at mom's even though it's dad's night.

Lisa (12:21)
Mmm

Colette Fortin (12:21)
So you

take a practical approach and say, okay, well, what's realistic and what makes sense? So you've got your core schedule, but then you allow for flexibility. one of the things that teens lean into is social activities. And so, yeah, you've got two kids, you've got to go pick up one child from school, take them home. And then the other one's in a club and you got to make a second trip, but don't deny them.

Lisa (12:45)
Mmm.

Colette Fortin (12:45)
the

opportunity to be in social clubs, musicals, sports, but it may mean some tweaks to the schedule. If one parent lives in the school district and one does not, well, okay, maybe the 12-year-old walks back to mom's house after school and dad makes one trip or mom makes one trip when the volleyball game is over for the older child It's about...

the structure with the flexibility to do what makes sense.

Lisa (13:10)
It's really hard and it really required two people to still work as a team as best as you can. It's so critical. It's so critical. But I couldn't help thinking, just ⁓ clients I'm helping, but also things like I see, hear is some parents, may get into a new relationship. They may move, away,

Colette Fortin (13:17)
100%, yeah.

Yes.

Lisa (13:33)
which makes the kids life so hard that they have to take a bus transit for an hour get up at 6 30. So do you recommend I know flexibility is important, but also putting some structure and perimeter in the separation agreement to kind of

Colette Fortin (13:48)
Well, I think in a separation

agreement, ought to contemplate changes of circumstance. So there should be, whether you're working in mediation or other methodologies, you want to have a reviewability clause that if there is a change of residence or because people lose their jobs and they have to work or, so if there is a change of circumstance that triggers, let's commit to each other that we're going to have a conversation and see what needs to change.

Lisa (13:57)
Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Colette Fortin (14:14)
What can be modified? How will that work? Because again, to some degree, teenagers are very flexible and can adapt, but there is a limit where it's not on them to shoulder the burden of the changes. And you're juggling, our clients are all across Ontario, so, because we do virtual mediation and in-person.

but you've got two people and maybe one person is gonna keep the matrimonial home. So the other person has funds and they're going to buy something, but they cannot afford to stay in the city. It's just not affordable anymore. So they need to move to a suburb of the area. So what is that gonna look like? What is that gonna mean? And the more flexible people are with each other around that, the easier it is and not be compartmentalizing.

Lisa (14:41)
Mmm. Mmm.

farther.

Colette Fortin (14:58)
Well, it's my night or it's your night or yes, you need some sort of structure, but not so rigid that you can't adjust. But if there is a major material change, like a move, well then that triggers that we got to sit down and figure out what we have to change. And I think you said something so interesting, communication. If you thought communication was hard in a marriage, it's even harder when you're separated because you're not under the same roof.

Lisa (15:00)
Yeah.

Mmm.

yeah, absolutely. If you think about why you separate, probably a huge part is that you're not aligned in your communication style and sometimes even value. So holding that together in co-parenting, it is very challenging. And sometimes I am sorry, you just have to put something word by word in the separation agreement to protect your kids. Because I, it breaks my heart to see

Colette Fortin (15:20)
that.

Lisa (15:42)
a 15 year old has to, take every day 90 minutes one way bus to go to school so they can fulfill this parenting arrangement. it's outrageous. that's just not okay from my perspective. And if you can foresee that might be a chance and put that in the separation agreement,

Colette Fortin (15:52)
Thank

it is tricky

because I would say it's relative to the age of the child because if the child is 16, which means in less than two years will be going to post-secondary, that child may have to take transit in Toronto or Kingston or they may not be able to afford to live in residence or, but it is tricky. you want to balance those competing priorities of and

Fair is not always equal and not everybody can do a 50-50 arrangement. And I will tell you this, kids don't care. They just don't. They want to have a healthy relationship with both parents. They're not sitting there counting hours. And I always say to people, what would you want your child to tell their roommate when they go off to school about their teen years and about how the divorce, how that affected them?

Lisa (16:27)
Yeah. Yeah.

Colette Fortin (16:48)
Door number one, my parents didn't stay together, but they made it work. And for the most part, there might've been some hiccups, but we got through it and you know, they're not best friends, but they really respect each other and they tried to make it as easy as possible for us. Door number one. Door number two, it fill in the blanks. It was horrible.

Lisa (17:06)
Nah.

Colette Fortin (17:08)
You know, I witnessed fighting and arguing and I know people will say, but you don't know my ex and he or she, and I get that. And certainly the more challenging your relationship is with your co-parent, maybe the more structure you're going to need because then there's less opportunity for negotiation. And that's the approach we will often take. they really, the communication is so fragile that it's disruptive, then there's no room for flexibility. And that's okay because

That's better than having ongoing arguments in front of or about the children. So you do have to weigh that out. But I always say it takes two to fight. So you can decide, do I want to be right or do I want my children to be protected from this situation and empower them?

Lisa (17:45)
⁓ my god. Yeah.

Yeah.

So, so many of us, going into a divorce, ultimately fighting to be seen, Fighting to say, I contribute this much, you didn't and, and that approach and it's a lose lose game. No one wins in this, right? And including yourself. So that's why it's important during this time to do a lot of work on ourselves to really reflect. So what are some other tips

that you have a suggestion of how to make this transition a little bit more smoother for our teenagers

Colette Fortin (18:19)
Well, I think not asking the child to relay messages for even though they technically are able to, be very, very careful about that because A, they're forgetful and B, they got other stuff going on and maybe the message received isn't the message delivered. So really like in this day and age with text and email and whatever, there's no reason for the children to be the messenger.

many of our clients who have older teens are setting up a group chat. so that everybody's aware when that teen does start to have more freedom, everybody's in the loop because, you know, they are teenagers and you can remember when you were a teenager and there were some potentially some rule breaking or some stretching of the boundaries. so.

Lisa (18:59)
Yeah.

Colette Fortin (19:01)
have a conversation

with each other about your kid. I do this with parents with older teens and I say, okay, let's talk about being aligned how do you wanna structure curfew on school days versus curfew on weekends? What about driving? 17 years old, 18 years old, still in grade 12, what's your comfort level? And lots of people say,

The child has to text when they leave, they have to text when they get to their destination, and they have to text when they're on their way home. And it's a quick little courtesy message. What about homework? 12, 13 years old, are you aligned with when that homework needs to happen? Some kids need a lot of structure around this from that three to 8 p.m. And other kids are self-

Lisa (19:40)
Mmm.

Colette Fortin (19:44)
monitoring. And so this isn't about a divorce. This is about even if you were in the same house, you have to evaluate is my child autonomous with their schoolwork or do we need to put structure? If your child has a diagnosis of ADHD or ADD or any kind of learning difficulties, wow, the structure is so important, but it's got to be the same in both houses. Otherwise it doesn't work. And I think the other one, Home Alone as well, another important piece.

Lisa (20:03)
Mother.

Colette Fortin (20:11)
What are the agreed upon timeframes where child can be home alone before it triggers adult supervision? And obviously the closer they are to 18, the longer can they stay home for a PD day by themselves, right? ⁓ But I think the other thing that can sometimes happen, and I've seen this a few times, is it's my night, so I decide, right? It's my night, so you can stay out till two.

Lisa (20:24)
you

Mm.

Colette Fortin (20:35)
in the morning or whatever, I don't care. And that can create friction with the other parent. Or kid says, can I go to so and so's party? And it's mom's weekend. And so she's like, it's my call, right? And it is, except the lens through which you are co-parenting does change in separation. And so rather than saying, it's okay with me as long as your dad says it's okay.

And what if dad's not comfortable? And what if mom's not? Can we go camping Well, then what happens is the no parent is the bad guy. So the recommended approach is to say, you know, I'm going to discuss that with your mom or dad, and we will get back to you. Then go offline and have the discussion and get aligned. So there's one message to the child. Otherwise they're going to find the crack in the armor and they're going to know who to ask when they want things, right?

Lisa (21:20)
Yeah, kids are very good at this. I mean, what you're talking about is really not easy, but trying to stay on the same page as much as possible during this time. I know the collateral damage is huge. I have a friend and on the mom's side, it's very flexible and lots of activities, lots of nights out. So when the kids get to his place on his 50, they're exhausted.

then in that week he has to reestablish a routine and just really calm their nervous system down. It's hard on the kids, you know, one week packed and one week down. So just again, try to put the kids at the forefront of this.

Colette Fortin (21:57)
Yeah, and you know, it's, it's,

that's an interesting point, because you talked earlier about sometimes the values in the marriage are different, like some people want, you know, AAA sports. And so you can't always control that the more you can get aligned with how many activities they will do, the easier it is, but sometimes you have to adapt and have your own strategies to say, first of all, okay, this is where we are. And so

here's gonna be our transition plan when we kind of reintegrate between houses, right?

Lisa (22:26)
And you have to find your own rhythm, If the other parent is not in the space to align and you can have that structure within your household and your routine. then just when kids ask you say, yeah, we are a little bit different in this household and here are the parameters and kids will adapt and they will abide by and they will know which buttons they cannot push. another note I wanted to talk about is

Colette Fortin (22:46)
100%. Yeah. ⁓

Lisa (22:51)
kids with special needs. My son diagnosed ADHD last year. It's tough when they can't regulate themselves and then doctor's appointment, medication or not. My experience that if you stay consistent, this year he just brought his report home, my God, I was like blown away by the improvement. So this extends to if you're in a separate household.

whether you're aligned or not, if you remain consistent to support your kids, even they have some special situations and needs, your kids can still thrive. That's just my share. I know it's not easy, but they can.

Colette Fortin (23:26)
Absolutely. No, and I

think that there's a lot of resources out there for parents. it isn't a question of is your child smart? It is a question of how does your child learn best? What is their zone of optimal flow? And something as simple as a checklist in the laundry room when you get home from school, I put my backpack away, I put my lunch pail in it. Four things that they can read. Checklists.

are really helpful for kids who need that focus and that structure and makes a world of difference. ⁓

Lisa (23:57)
Yeah. And just

consistency is important, right? he has a tutor, he talks to his therapist regularly. do doctors check in. I check in with his teachers. You've been that anchor, regardless of what happens if you remain consistent within yourself and anchored, yeah, your kids will thrive.

Colette Fortin (24:12)
and educate yourself.

Lisa (24:16)
Like no question.

So I just want to bring that piece in. Cause I know a lot of kids now have special needs talking about teens, my kids still listen to me most of the time. But I see that more in my son that sometimes he would stuff that emotion.

Colette Fortin (24:25)
Hahaha!

Lisa (24:31)
right? Compartmentalize it. Even though they're not comfortable, he might not say it. It's, already started to see that. So how do we know as parent, because when we're going through a divorce, we are disorienting and overwhelmed. How do we know if our teens, when they say they're okay, they're really okay or they're not.

Colette Fortin (24:34)
Mm-hmm.

Good, good question. I think the overall theme is watch for changes of behavior. So what could a change of behavior look like? Gee, they're spending a lot more time in their room alone. That's not typical. They're not going out with their friends or doing things that they normally would do. They seem withdrawn. Appetite loss. Grades are slipping.

Lisa (25:09)
Mmm.

Colette Fortin (25:12)
sort of languishing for lack of a better word. Obviously there's a continuum because we all go through phases where we are. But those are some pretty big indicators that you might want to just keep a close eye and, just check in.

Lisa (25:27)
I love that and I adopted this do a regular check-in with my son. I started just like checking, hey, how are you doing? How's life? How's friendship? How's school? And to a point that now he adapts it and he sometimes come in to me to do a check-in we just do it in my bedroom on the rocking chair. And which can be a really loving time. You don't have to do it as rigid as possible, but a check in would be great.

Colette Fortin (25:41)
Thank you.

Mm-hmm.

Lisa (25:50)
What I found really helpful is, me opening up. I lead by example that I would share like, ⁓ this is work. You know, this is my friendship and to be really truthful and they can feel that energy. And then again, if your kids are not reading and you're not reading, how do you expect your kids to be reading? Right. So yeah.

Colette Fortin (25:55)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, if they see you on

the phone all the time. Yeah, and I think your role modeling emotional intelligence and some one question that I love to use with my grandchildren because I very involved in their lives is what's one thing that happened to you today that was really cool? Like, what's a great thing that happened to you today? Or what's one thing you learned today? Because sometimes how was your day is like, oh, fine. And then it's like,

Lisa (26:23)
Mm-hmm.

Colette Fortin (26:32)
when they're in the car, that's your prime moment, because they can't leave. So you've got them, you can have those conversations. what did you learn today? Or, you know, here's what I did. Did you know your role model, as you say, like, I read this today and I had no idea that this was a thing, right?

Lisa (26:46)
But teenagers are hard. Sometimes they don't talk. And sometimes there is like outburst of anger come from nowhere.

Do you recommend they go attend counseling so that they have a safe and non-judgmental space to talk about things? I highly recommend. My son started at age seven. Just tremendous, tremendous help. I can't recommend this more. All my clients I do recommend. But one of my clients said,

Colette Fortin (27:13)
Mm-hmm.

Lisa (27:15)
But yeah, I talked to my son. He doesn't want to do it. So what happened?

Colette Fortin (27:18)
Yeah, and that, you know, depending

on the age and I would say it depends on the severity of the concern, So obviously, if you have some serious concerns, and we know mental health for teens is a very, vulnerable time, lots of scenarios of self harm. If your child doesn't want to go, you should go to get help to talk about

how do I help my child through this? That could be one very, very effective idea because there's so many wonderful professionals out there to guide us through. know, we have personal trainers and we have accountants and we have family doctors. And we think that counseling or therapy is like this, I must be broken and I must be this and that, or what is my child gonna say about me if they go to counseling? you gotta be able to overcome that.

Lisa (27:57)
Mm-hmm.

Colette Fortin (28:05)
One strategy that sometimes works is look, hey, I'm really concerned. part of my job is to make sure you're okay, just like I'd make sure there's food in the fridge and I make sure that you're safe. I really think this is important. What do you think about if you did three sessions and then after that, if you and or the counselor say we're good, then okay. Do you think that's something that

you could do and virtual counseling is really popular for teens because they can do it from their bedroom. They don't have to go to an office so those would be my but it is tough and you have to evaluate it's a parent's worst fear is my kid going to be okay and how are they doing and

Lisa (28:43)
Yes,

Colette Fortin (28:45)
modeling open communication

Lisa (28:45)
and also the

Colette Fortin (28:46)
is so important. Yeah.

Lisa (28:48)
Hmm.

And also the other lingering thought is maybe they're okay, but what's the long-term impact on this? I mean, you really don't know until well into their 20s and when they get into intimate relationships. So I love what you said testing water. Hey, go try this out. And if you don't like it and give them the way out rather than say you have to go, another thing is that the modeling piece too, are you

intentionally seeking support outside of your family members, right? Close friends. are you in other support groups? do you have a coach are you in counseling? Because if you are sharing with your kids, Oh, I just talked to my therapist. This is how she or he helped me.

your kids can see visibly what changes your bring home and that can reduce that stigma there's something wrong with me

Colette Fortin (29:33)
And I think there's, again, there's that fine line of your teenager is not your best friend. So if you're going to share about struggles, you want to try to incorporate like a learning or I love Brittany Brown's example about the trust jar. Like when kids at school, somebody betrays trust, and they're heartbroken. And how do you teach a child about trust? And so she talks about the jar and the marbles in the jar and

Lisa (29:38)
Mmm.

Mm.

Colette Fortin (29:57)
if someone doesn't have a full jar as a friend, then you don't need to share, I think that role modeling is so much more than we think. Children watch and they learn more from watching than listening. If you're on your phone at dinnertime constantly, what do you expect?

Lisa (30:10)
Yes.

less preaching, more doing and talking about saying no, they may say no to therapy. And I've encountered cases that things are really not good and they don't want to go to the other parent's

Colette Fortin (30:17)
Yeah.

Lisa (30:28)
It's a tough place to be as your other parent and you can't really force them if they're over what age 12 or 14.

Colette Fortin (30:36)
Well, I don't know that it's about a legal number, about a, but, so let's unpack that a little bit. Cause I think that's a really deep, deep concept. So we're going to put the parent alienation piece over here because that is a real thing in family law.

Lisa (30:39)
Yeah ⁓

Colette Fortin (30:52)
The parent, I'll call it the custodial parent or the residential parent who's struggling with my child doesn't want to go. You've got to ask yourself first and foremost, am I encouraging that behavior?

Lisa (30:56)
Uh-huh.

Colette Fortin (31:03)
And that's a hard because you're divorcing this person for a reason or they divorced you for a reason. And you may still have your own anger and emotion around that. It takes a long time to recover from that. You have a responsibility to foster a healthy relationship between parent and child. As opposed to, yeah, you don't have to go. No, you don't have. I mean, I never said that. She said she didn't want to go. So there's a fine line there. Having said that, how do you do that?

if the child really is struggling they may be angry at their co-parent, Again, I come back to counseling for child, counseling for yourself, also some services that allow rebuilding between parent and child where the non-residential parent, ⁓ spends time and it's a highly specialized area and there are some good services out there.

If the parent lives far away, enabling and allowing travel so that they can build, continue to build relationship. But it's probably one of the most difficult parts of a separation because it's hard to discern. Well, again, let's put domestic violence, abuse, let's put that over there. Let's talk about the rest of,

Lisa (32:09)
Yep.

Colette Fortin (32:13)
A seven-year-old is not going to say, don't want to go to them. They just want to be kids. So are they internalizing parental baggage? However, as the receiving parent who's trying to build relationship, you've got a 17-year-old, try not to force. You know what 17 and 16-year-olds love to do? They love to hang out. Let's go grab a bite. Why don't we stay connected? Don't give up. Because when they turn 18, they call the shots.

So if there is parental influence from the other parent, it may not happen at 18, but it may take some time. But again, what do you want your child to be saying at age 25? When I was a teenager, it was a tough time. My dad or my mom didn't give up on me. They stayed connected. And try not to make everything about the separation either because kids are supposed to spread their wings. That's what it is. They're not there to fill a need for you.

That's not their job is to fill your life. It's their job to grow up and find their way and their passion in the world. And it's your job to allow that space and opportunities for teaching and learning and growing for that to happen. That's what you sign up for. Not for them to fulfill your need of loneliness or belonging or those are your things. So it's hard though. It's hard if there's a 16 year old who's snubbing, and just

Lisa (33:03)
Mm-hmm.

Colette Fortin (33:26)
play the long game and say, I'm not going to give up. I'm not going to force, but I'm not going to give up.

Lisa (33:31)
I love that. Stay connected. Once upon a time, my colleague and they have a beautiful family. They didn't get divorced or anything like happily married, but even she shared some advice when we were talking. I think she has three children, two of them are boys, but she's saying, you got to let them go. You got to let them go at one point in their life.

and trust that if you stay grounded and anchored, they will come back. Yeah. So I love that. it's somehow this just imprinted in my mind. It's like, okay, it's like a kite. Sometimes you got let them go and let them fly and trust that they. And that's hard though.

Colette Fortin (33:58)
They'll come back. Absolutely. They will come back.

Yeah. How are they going to learn? How are they going to grow? Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa (34:15)
when especially I can only imagine the receiving parent whose child say, don't want to spend time with you now, But hey, even if you're happily married, your teen teenager may say that to you, it's hard not taking it personal and really put our ego aside and ⁓

Colette Fortin (34:31)
play the

long game with the mantra of when they're 24 and 25 and you know.

Lisa (34:37)
Yeah, So we talked about they have a busy life, special occasions, graduations. after a while, you may be introducing new partners into the picture.

I think we talked a little bit in our ⁓ last episode and maybe both sides will have new partners. It will be a big gathering. So any tips on how to introduce new partners to your teenager. And I think it's especially delicate because they themselves may be entering into intimate relationships

how do we approach special celebrations when you have new partners?

Colette Fortin (35:14)
So statistically, 80 % of people repartner within two years. Not necessarily remarry, but repartner. So what we know best research is that teens don't really want to know about your dating situation. some people go on dating app like they're not your best friend. If you got to keep that space of privacy. Certainly, I think the biggest one is wait until it's to the best that you can as a relationship of permanence.

Lisa (35:29)
Yeah.

Colette Fortin (35:38)
Unlike young children, they may not get as attached, but they don't necessarily need to meet six or seven different people you're going on dates with. So let's imagine that you are in a relationship and it's graduation time. Graduation's a big deal. It's a big deal for parents. whether it's university, college, high school, grade eight, this is one of the moments where...

Lisa (35:57)
Mm-hmm.

Colette Fortin (35:59)
They're timeline moments, and I get that. But if there is a new partner and it's still early days or it could create a hiccup. Ask the child how would they like to celebrate graduation. Because it's their day, not yours. And to the new partners out there, it's a four hour celebration.

Lisa (36:12)
Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm.

Colette Fortin (36:19)
Sometimes the best gift you can give to that child that you're trying to build a relationship with is to step back and allow that space so that there isn't that awkwardness. I mean, for some people it isn't awkward, but if it is awkward, that's the greatest gift you can give the child is to say, I'm actually not gonna go to that graduation or that concert because we're not there yet and that's all right.

And the kids will remember that this new person is a friend, did not force themselves into my life, but also loved me so much that they recognized that by being there, it was gonna make it awkward for my parents. And so, wow, thank you for not, and they may not articulate it, but that's the impact.

Lisa (37:04)
I love that. think a lot of that is out putting our ego aside. And then I think for the parent who are in that relationship, how do they balance, this is my kid's graduation, but also they may have a girlfriend and boyfriend who wants to get involved.

Colette Fortin (37:08)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's hard. I would say weddings are probably harder than graduations because weddings is a whole other thing. again, the difference between voice and control. it's like, I don't want your new wife at my wedding. that's going to be a tough thing for that parent to decide how they're going to do that. but a 16 year old graduating from grade 12.

It's an important event, but maybe it's not the event, right?

Lisa (37:41)
Yeah, a lot of that is taking in how much is us trying to insert in control in the situation. And let's say if I am having a new partner, I think it's important for him to show up at my son's high school graduation. But it will have an impact on my son hugely.

then you have to evaluate that. How much is that you want to get validation from your family and friends about this new partner you have and how important is that day for my son in this case, right? You have to balance that and I exactly and you have to try

Colette Fortin (38:07)
Put yourself, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

And it's his day, not yours. It's his day. So if you can't call

the shots on your graduation, when can you? Right?

Lisa (38:25)
Yeah,

thank you. When they are trying to learn about their own agency and independence, it's about them. It's not about you and trust that the partner with you now, who is committed, will understand your decision. Right. I think the whole episode we're talking about that the focus is on your children.

This is not about you and we have to step back, which is hard because we have our own emotions and egos. So thank you for that. And talking about graduation, the holidays are coming. I can't believe, my God. so yeah.

Colette Fortin (38:45)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, same thing, Lisa, same thing.

don't pressure teenagers. They've got enough going on. I remember one client saying, you can have them on Christmas day. I'm fine. because there isn't that pressure now of Santa and all the things that for young children matters. But it is about spending time together in traditions, not about, is it the 24th, the 25th, or the 26th? Barring of course, religious observances but putting that aside,

saying, kiddo, I know you've got four Christmases to go to. Maybe you're in a relationship now, you're 19 and you have a girlfriend and both parents are divorced and now you got four. Love that movie. What works for you?

Lisa (39:27)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Colette Fortin (39:35)
And if you're alone on Christmas, when was the last time somebody gave you 48 hours where you didn't have to cook, you didn't have to prepare anything for anybody? You could actually just have 48 hours or whatever it is just for you.

Lisa (39:50)
I love that. That's like, I can breathe. I love that. And really, think allow whatever emotions you have, because special days are hard. this is like six years for me in my anniversary day. you still feel something. But also remember, it's just a day. It's just a day.

Colette Fortin (39:50)
Wow, that's a gift.

Hahaha!

Yeah.

So if your co-parent

has a specific celebration that has happened in those children's lives for 15 years, we go to Uncle Frank's because he lives on a farm and we do that on December 24th. Do you wanna be the one to tell your kids, no, you can't go to Uncle Frank's every other year because it's my turn and we're gonna like do something on a different day and honestly you are preparing them and yourself.

Lisa (40:25)
Mmm.

Colette Fortin (40:31)
for when they're adults and they really get to decide. And so many times, Lisa, when I'm working with even clients in their 30s and 40s and they're like, we're trying to divide time for Christmas. And one of them will say, if I don't go to my mom's on Christmas, it will be problematic. they're dealing with the pressure of, their parents' divorce and now they have to deal with their divorce and it just becomes, really complicated. So what's the purpose of it?

Lisa (40:48)
Yes. Yes.

Colette Fortin (40:56)
is to be together to celebrate Don't make them try to prove, they don't need to prove to you, like, I got Christmas, so I must be more, like you said, the ego is a really powerful and dangerous thing because when we allow ourselves to expose, if I have an emotional trigger about something,

Lisa (41:01)
Yeah. Yeah.

Colette Fortin (41:15)
I should be asking myself what's behind that, not who caused it. What is that? What is that? What's that about?

Lisa (41:19)
Bingo. That's it. Check. Yeah.

Yeah. Any decision you're making or any fights you're about to start, really the first step is checking in. what's my intention? So important. And then a couple of questions. Yeah.

Colette Fortin (41:32)
And what's behind that anger and that frustration that what is, what

am I, why am I feeling this way? And it's kind of like peeling an onion back and you get to the core of, I'm afraid my child will reject me. I'm afraid I'm not important to them. I'm afraid that if I don't make sure I get my rights, I will lose them. Okay. Once you expose that fear and that shadow, now you're in a place of power and saying, okay, well,

Lisa (41:51)
Yes.

Colette Fortin (41:57)
Is that defined by whether they come on the 24th or not? Who's in control of maintaining that relationship, right?

Lisa (42:04)
Yeah. And sometimes asking yourself, it true? A couple of times can really get you far into the core of it and help you let go. really, these are not important. And the quality of your time you spend with your children, right? Not the specific day is the memories that they will carry through.

Colette Fortin (42:22)
Yeah.

You've got 18 years of they are your dependent. Okay. Then you have 35, 40 years of an adult relationship with your child where they're 100 % in charge. And, yeah, those teen years, I heard a counselor once say those are the hang on years, just hang on and get through,

Lisa (42:31)
Mm-hmm.

⁓

Colette Fortin (42:41)
Keep them safe, keep them close, keep them busy. But when you cross over that threshold and they go away to school or they get jobs then it's a whole new exciting chapter. But how you navigate those teen years can set a really great foundation of, I love you, I respect you, your opinion matters to me, and I'm here for you.

Lisa (42:52)
Mmm.

I love that. So when times are hard, I always encourage myself is coming back to what would love do? If love is the anchor, what choice will I make? And that might mean sacrifice now, that might mean not reaching out, that might mean losing.

Colette Fortin (43:10)
Hmm.

stepping aside,

allowing, yeah, 100%.

Lisa (43:21)
Yeah, stepping aside temporary. means losing Christmas

days and the magical of waking up on the Christmas day with gifts, right? Temporarily. But it's playing the long game. And thank you so much for that. before we wrap up, What are some last pieces of advice for parents who are navigating divorce while trying to support their teens?

Colette Fortin (43:46)
I think we can easily when we're navigating a separation agreement and working with clients gloss over the parenting discussion because they're like all 16 and eight 17 or 15 and oh well they're almost done parenting and actually I would argue that a good mediator should plan these conversations with their clients and say look this is an opportunity for us to coach you no one practices doing this but barring that

treating your relationship like a business relationship and let's set a process by which the two of you will communicate and will work through these things in the future. You set the foundation today, but the agreement is, the parenting part of an agreement is only as good as the day it's written. The minute something changes, you have to talk. You cannot legalize communication. This just doesn't happen. So you can't, the judge can't say.

Lisa (44:29)
Bye!

I love that. I love

Colette Fortin (44:38)
A judge is not going to say, I'm going to put a court

order in place that Lisa, will respond to your ex within 24 hours. So I like to have a conversation about what process you're going to follow and coach them through. Think about it as a business relationship. Is this something I should be sending over text or do we need a phone call? Johnny's failing math. We need a phone call. There's a medical issue. We need a face to face. So discerning and helping people triage.

This is when we will text. This is when we will use email. This is when we will actually do face to face. Send agendas ahead of time so you don't get off the rails. Agree that if somebody goes off the rails on the topic, cause you can get pulled into the you and you never and it's your fault he's failing. Get back on track and agree that we're going to meet at a coffee shop. We're going to have an agenda. And ask yourself before you hit send.

Would I send this message to a co-worker or my boss if it's no?

Lisa (45:28)
I love that.

Colette Fortin (45:29)
Is it true? Is it necessary? Will it be helpful? If you cannot answer yes to all three, do not send the message. Give yourself 24 hours. Yeah.

Lisa (45:37)
Yeah. Well, this

achieve what I wanted to achieve. would actually backfire just because I can't regulate my emotions Yeah. I love, love that. Yeah. thank you so much. That was so good. and what I'm hearing a lot of people say is ⁓ the glossing over part, So, ⁓ we only have eight years co-parenting or four years. So you almost set that intentional energy of

Colette Fortin (45:43)
Is it going to help the situation? Yeah. Yeah.

you

Lisa (45:59)
fine, I'll just get through this. What if you work through your non-negotiables and really get clear what does that parenting relationship look like, what you can control, what you can let go of before you write anything in that separation agreement and just really set the intention that I will make sure my kids will thrive despite of this.

Colette Fortin (46:15)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lisa (46:21)
I think that's very important. why can't we aim that? why don't we check in with ourselves? Yeah.

Colette Fortin (46:25)
Well, and you're gonna revert

to your old patterns of communication with each other. And how did that work the first time? Not so great. it's not about judgment, it's just communication is the number one reason people tell us that they drifted apart. And so if you don't do something different, is that a way of life is I'm just gonna get through until I retire. I'm gonna be in a job I hate or in a situation, that's not healthy.

Lisa (46:29)
Yep.

Yes.

Colette Fortin (46:50)
I did recently create a very short parents guide to navigating separation when you have teenagers. I encourage people to go on the website and seek that resource out because it's a nice little snippet of some of the things that we've talked about. it's tough. Parenting teenagers? High school, I would not want to be a high school student today.

Lisa (47:12)
Yes, we will link that resource to ⁓ the show notes and thank you so much. we understand how tough it is and ⁓ more reason when you tuning into resources like this And you can definitely get through this and to be in that thriving space. And so are your kids.

Colette Fortin (47:14)
Yeah, thank you.

Lisa (47:31)
Thank you again, Colette for your time and ⁓ sharing all the wisdom here.

Colette Fortin (47:31)
Yeah. Thank you, All right. Good chatting with you.