New York’s Bold Bet, Mixed Signals, and CRE’s “Back-ish” Recovery

Everyone in New York is wondering the same thing: what will Mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani’s win mean for the city—and for commercial real estate? Manus Clancy and Dianne Crocker dig into how his campaign promises on affordable housing, rent freezes, and tax hikes could reshape investor sentiment and property values in the country’s largest CRE market. They also discuss a week filled with contradictions, from job data that exceeded expectations to major companies announcing new rounds of layoffs, along with a federal government shutdown now reaching record length. Dianne shares highlights from the Real Estate Finance Association’s Connecticut event featuring Manulife’s Victor Calanog, who offered a surprisingly upbeat message: “CRE is back-ish.” That tone aligns with LightBox data showing October’s CRE Activity Index holding steady despite persistent headwinds. Also in focus are a $560 million Miami solar-integrated condo tower, Manhattan’s leasing surge, and a record $7.2 billion medical office portfolio deal. The episode closes with a Veterans Day “slice of life” and an unexpected question: is the Pentagon considering leasing land at Camp Pendleton?

01:06 New York City's New Mayor: Implications for CRE
06:21 Economic Data and Market Trends
11:07 Positive Developments in CRE
16:46 Labor Market Insights and Layoffs
20:10 Recent Deals and Market Activity
31:55 Veterans Day and Community Impact

Have questions for the pod team? Send them to Podcast@LightBoxRE.com.

www.lightboxre.com

Transcript

The CRE Weekly Digest by LightBox

Episode 71: New York’s Bold Bet, Mixed Signals, and CRE’s “Back-ish” Recovery

November 7, 2025

Alyssa Lewis: Welcome to the CRE Weekly Digest by LightBox, a firm transforming the commercial real estate landscape by connecting every step of the CRE process with comprehensive tools and data. I'm Alyssa Lewis with our experts Manus Clancy and Dianne Crocker. It's the week ending November 7th, and here are a few headlines shaping the conversation.

US elections wrapped up Tuesday with Democrats securing key governor's races in New Jersey and Virginia. In New York City, voters elected socialist Zohran Mamdani as the city's next mayor. US stocks lost momentum early in the week with major indexes selling off Monday and Tuesday. The ADP Jobs report came in slightly above expectations, offering a glimmer of optimism amid ongoing layoff announcements, the latest coming from IBM. Bloomberg reports that US companies announced the highest number of October job cuts in more than 20 years. Bond yields continued to drift higher, and finally, the federal shutdown has now become the longest in modern history. Manus, which way are the winds blowing this week? 

Manus Clancy: I think we have to start with the elections on Tuesday in New York, New Jersey, and Virginia, particularly in New York, where voters elected socialist Zohran Mamdani to be the city's next mayor. It wasn't a big surprise. He had been leading in the polls for a long time. Maybe the margin of victory was a little bit bigger than people had thought, but I do think that what happens to New York over the next six months will be really, really interesting. We haven't seen an experiment like this in New York ever.

His goals are ambitious. He wants to freeze rents, which we would not be big fans of in commercial real estate. He wants to set up free busing. He wants to raise taxes considerably, and he wants to try city run grocery stores, and I think it'll be very interesting. There have been some real doom and gloomers out there.

Barry Sternlicht from Starwood just the other day said that this is gonna lead to a rash of companies and people fleeing New York to avoid higher taxes and rent control at at a higher level. Uh, I'm not in that category. I'm not a doom and gloo. As somebody who went through New York in the seventies and eighties and saw how quality of life really was dismal at that time.

Seeing how the city rebounded after nine 11. I do think that even when quality of life issues creep in, when we go through recessions and so forth, the floor doesn't fall out. We don't see the end of the world as some people are, are suggesting. That being said. It's hard to be optimistic as a business leader for the plans that are coming in there, especially for CRE.

We already know that the housing stock in New York is quite limited. If people can't grow rents, it's hard to expect that inventory to grow. Price controls don't really work. And you know, one of his big things is removing the police. Reducing their influence in the city. And if we have quality of life issues, I think it's a net negative for the city.

And what concerns me more than anything else is when that happens, when you're not improving schools, when you're not improving quality of life, when crime goes up, when expenses go up, it really hits the working poor and those below the poverty line the most. And let's keep our fingers crossed. I wanna keep an open mind.

I wanna root for that. These changes will make things better at the lower end of the economic spectrum, but while I'm not a doom and gloomer, I'm a, a skeptic. 

Dianne Crocker: I love election day. I'm a total political junkie from my days of living in DC in the early nineties. Clearly, the top headline lies with New York City's new Mayor, you know, and specifically what, uh, mom Donny administration means.

As you said, it has aggressive campaign promises as those evolve into real world. Policy moves, but like you, I'm seeing the, the doom and gloom reactions, you know, stories about the, the death of, of progress and profit in New York City's housing market, um, stories about this, this big population migration from Manhattan to Florida.

And, you know, I don't know, maybe, maybe I'm getting tired of all the. Pearl clutching in politics this year. Maybe I'm feeling old because my birthday is Monday. You know, I follow a guy at JLL, his name is Gabe Byberg. Very great follow on LinkedIn, and he had a post today about the, the doom and gloom comments, you know, and he said like, let's not lose perspective.

You know, think about somebody like Warren Buffet, who's stepping down at the age of 95 and think about all the decades of politicians and markets and, and wars and, and recoveries and headlines that he's. Lived through, you know, did he go doomsday based on one election? Did he give into the hyperbole or wait and watch to see what materialize?

So we've definitely got some changes ahead, Manus and, and many of them would not be positives for commercial real estate, but you know, let's let it play out. I think we need more than a day before we get hysterical. 

Manus Clancy: My biggest hope is, and this is always my hope when we have change elections, is the impact.

On those that are below the poverty line is not miserable. We've seen how progressive policies have played out in Portland, Seattle, Chicago, San Francisco, at various points that the wealthy can segregate themselves by moving out, by hiring police, by putting their kids in private schools. And if things spiral lower.

The people left with weaker schools, higher crime, higher cost of living, et cetera, are those that can't move. And if there's one hope I have after this election is that somehow the quality of life gets better right at the lower end of the spectrum 

Dianne Crocker: and that it will take time to play out. And if the policies that he ran on don't result in the results that everybody's hoping, then he will be a one term mayor.

Manus Clancy: But we should pivot to. Other things that happened this week, there was some economic data. I really wanna roll into that. Uh, and thank you, Alyssa, for highlighting all the various data points that we saw this week. We saw some good and some bad. Let's talk about, and probably more bad than good, to be honest.

The bad, uh, US stocks appear to be running outta steam. I think this AI trade. Starting to look tired. Randall Forsyth of Barron's this week talked about just how much of the free cash flow at the big seven tech firms is being eaten up by ai and that that's concerning, right? That that will weigh on earnings and.

If earnings go lower, certainly valuations go lower and stock indices go lower. So, um, that was one of the negatives for this week. Um, another negative challenger came out with their layoffs report, highest layoff number in more than 20 years. We've talked about this before. Amazon gm target, the UPS, uh, all with thousands or tens of thousands of, of layoffs, bond yields up over the last week that comes with.

Fed Chair Powell saying a December rate cut is no. Sure thing. We've seen the yield on the 10 year step up about 15 basis points going from about 3 95 to four 10, and of course we still have a government shutdown in place and SNAP benefits now kind of at risk for people that rely on. Those benefits. So a lot of negatives there.

Dianne, before I go to the couple of positives, let me let you weigh in on, on which way the wind is blowing for you. 

Dianne Crocker: I'm sitting in a weird place, kind of looking up both sides, thinking. We have two snapshots that don't really quite line up. You know, one is showing that hiring a stabilizing the other, showing that layoff.

Are accelerating. And you know, both can be true. Firms can add workers where they see pockets of demand and, and they can shed jobs in, in other sectors that are being impacted by trends. But, you know, I think it's just a reminder that headline numbers can mask some real softness in the labor market. And the next few months I think will be very telling on the labor market front.

But as you mentioned, the shutdown continues. It just became the longest shutdown in modern history. So access to federal employment data remains locked up. And, you know, you mentioned this, the SNAP benefits, now airports are announcing that they're gonna close. There'll be travel disruptions, missed paychecks.

So I think as those things start to happen and as the impacts of the shutdown become more pronounced and, and widespread outside of just federal workers, the pressure for a deal certainly is, is ramping up very quickly. 

Manus Clancy: I don't think we've seen the end of these layoffs. I think what we're seeing right now is really the tip of the iceberg.

I always look at CEOs kinda like football coaches, right? You're measured by one thing. If you're a football coach and that is wins, how many wins can you get your team to the playoffs, right? You lose 14 games, you're gonna lose your job. You win 14 games, you're gonna get a pay raise. And for CEOs, there's a lot of things going on.

There's the future, there's. Climate risk, there's, there's resiliency, things that they get measured on, but at the end of the day, they're measured on earnings. And we've talked about this at the top of the podcast, that as AI spending increases, uh. The pressure to keep those earnings elevated will remain very, very high on these CEOs.

And the one linchpin they have is to cut heads. So I think that what we're seeing now with Target gm, IBM, Amazon, et cetera, will only accelerate. And I think the one thing we talked about yet is we also, the Supreme Court case.

The tariffs that have been put in place for the last six months could be reversed. And so there's a lot of moving parts right now, and I think it does ratchet up the pressure on the administration to cut a deal on Congress to cut a deal. I think that after Tuesday, after the election results, after seeing some weakness in the markets.

Higher bond yields, layoffs, et cetera. I do think that some urgency will have to come to the fore to make sure that what doesn't become speed bumps for the US economy turns into really a gridlock and not, not a political gridlock, gridlock in the economy where we see a recession emerging. 

Dianne Crocker: So let's leave the shutdown behind Manus and turn to something a little bit more optimistic. I feel like it's been negative thus far. I do want to share my feedback from an event that I went to yesterday in Hartford. It was an event hosted by the Real Estate Finance Association, or Refa, it was their Connecticut chapter, and the keynote was Manulife’s Victor Calanog, who has been a guest on this podcast, and I will tell our listeners, if you ever get a chance. To listen to Victor speak. Don't miss it. He is really such a refreshing mix of entertainment and intel. I mean, he, he took us through commercial real estate, but he hit on the ancient Roman Empires economy and then he somehow jumped to Gladiator movies and why Russell Crowe is in the sequel, um, to how Justin Timberlake style Ozempic brought sexy back to big pharma, but.

On the topic of this podcast, you know, on the market, what he had to say, Manis was spot on. And I thought it was comforting. You know, the, the takeaway that I got was, yes, we're operating in a world of high uncertainty, but also in one of high resilience. Um, yes, people are anxious about the news, headlines and tariffs and spending and layoffs.

But if things are so bad, then why are commercial real estate fundamentals holding up? You know, lenders are lending and more deals are closing, and returns are turning positive. Those are all true and they're all things that we see in our own light box research as we talk about here on the pod. So CRE is, as Victor put it, backish, that was his adjective.

Not just back, but it's backish. 

Manus Clancy: Couple thoughts on Victor's remarks. I'm gonna basically lean on. Something we've been saying for several weeks, and that is the difference between the broader markets and CRE, in my opinion, is the broader markets, the equity markets, the crypto markets, et cetera, they feel frothy, they feel stretched.

The PE ratios feel like cyclical highs. Right now. The market has really been bit up hard, and that's why people are so anxious and not terribly bullish. CRE has not undergone that. It has undergone a very steady climb with activity, rebounding, valuations, inching up lenders getting gradually more loose.

And I don't mean underwriting loose, but I mean more eager to make loans slightly month over month. And I think all of that has laid a very strong foundation for CRE being the outlier. In 2026 when it comes to holding values, should we hit bumpiness in the broader US economy? 

Dianne Crocker: That really gets at what was behind Victor's comment, that it's backish, you know, that it's not going like gangbusters and we should all be grateful for that.

You know, that, that it is moving forward cautiously, um, that folks are paying attention. That one things like. Tariffs were announced in April, and there was a market shock there. Sierra hung back a little bit, but not for long. And then they came back. And the Newmark study that you mentioned earlier, um, which we can highlight here, came out this week and it supports that, uh, Newmark came out with a study that commercial real estate investment sales rose 19% in the third quarter.

And that loan originations. Bolstered by the first decline in rates rose 48% through the third quarter, that the capital market system is decidedly healthier as 2025 enters the home stretch. And the sentence that jumped out at me is if 2025 will be remembered for anything other than tariffs, it might be the slow recovery of commercial real estate capital markets.

So you know, a slow but positive march forward. And that I think is good. It's certainly better than if things were going like gangbusters and, and folks were throwing caution to the wind. 

Manus Clancy: For those that are young to the CRE industry. For younger listeners, let's say people under 30, or people that are new to our podcast, there's a distinct difference for people like Dianne and I and we see it.

We know it when we see it. In 2007, when you were seeing. Lenders give 85% LTV loans and property selling for 30% above where they sold for in 2005. You look at each other and you say, this can't end well, and it didn't end well. And you know it long in advance that people who have been in the market realize that risks are being taken.

And back in 2007, people were writing credit default insurance on CRE pools at. Levels of returns. It was a terrible, terrible period, and you could see the storm clouds brewing. I would say the same thing in late 2021, where we saw multifamily properties selling at 30%, 40%, 50% above what they had sold for four years earlier.

That didn't feel good either. I, I don't wanna put words in your mouth, Dianne, but it does feel like none of that is apparent right now. There's no looking at each other, rubbing our chin, saying Y, this isn't good. 

Dianne Crocker: Agreed. And I think in that regard, we point to the numbers and what are they showing. And if, you know, if the numbers were going down significantly, then yes, I would worry and think that people were running to the sidelines.

If they were going up exponentially. I would worry too that folks were, you know, being too risk off. 

Alyssa Lewis: Dianne for this week's stated dive. The October light box activity index results are in. How did we do? 

Dianne Crocker: They are, so last Friday was Halloween, so we got the October numbers this week and the light box commercial real estate activity index for October came in at 106.2 versus 116.8 in September.

For listeners who may not be familiar, the Siri Activity Index is a three-pronged look at three different functions in commercial real estate. One is the. Pace at which property listings are coming to market. The second is demand from commercial real estate lenders for appraisals, and then the third is demand for phase one environmental site assessments that are done prior to.

Big commercial deals or loan originations or refis. So across all three of those components in October, we saw modest dips in terms of average daily activity, and October was a longer month in September. So overall, I think the slight decline isn't all that surprising, nor do me. Is it overly concerning, especially given the shutdown?

I think the term that you used, Manus, when we were talking about it, was the shutdown certainly put some sand in the gears. Tariff Uncertainty does the same. So it's, I think, encouraging to see that it is still strong in the three digits with a steady stream of listings and portfolios coming to market.

But I'm, I'm not surprised that it went down a little bit. And the Newmark report that we just talked about with. Double digit upticks in transactions and double digit upticks in lending. That was through the end of September. So here's the market's first indicator of how Q4 is shaping up and, and I think it's, it's steady on right now.

Manus Clancy: I've said this many times. I think that this is a great index that you and your team puts together when people try to figure out. Inflection points and where the market is headed and is it confident and is it strong? A lot of people rely on things like bank call reports, which are backward looking, or public records, filings of sales, which sometimes can be delayed weeks or months between the time that the sale takes place and the time it's recorded.

The beauty of this index is. Appraisals are ordered before loans close and sales are consummated. Uh, same thing with phase one. Same things with listings. And I think that this should give, even though we saw a dip in October, it should give people confidence that all this other noise in the economy, the jobs noise, the shutdown noise, the higher interest rate noise, really hasn't led to a big.

Bump in the road for anybody. The market continues to soldier on and you know, if we see this index go down to 80, for example, I'd be the first one saying, wow, we are headed for bumpy roads. If it goes up to 140, I'd be the first to say, wow, maybe we're starting to see signs of froth. So we love this index.

The guys work very hard putting this together. Dianne does a great job aggregating it, and if you're not looking at it or reading the research. It's a great data point. 

Dianne Crocker: Steady is good. It's good for the market. It shows people are being cautious, but hopefully smart. 

Alyssa Lewis: Okay, Dianne, let's transition to our, did you know for the week?

What do you have for us? 

Dianne Crocker: Sure. So. I realized we haven't talked about lender driven appraisals in a while for the, did you know? So this is from the LightBox rims and C3 60 platforms that are used by lenders to procure commercial appraisals. And as a whole, October's numbers were up 5% over September and an even stronger 15% over last year.

So that's a strong sign that the debt capital markets are open for business as they respond to, um, as lenders respond to demand for new originations. As the need for Refinancings. 

Manus Clancy: It's a great data point to see. Honestly, it wasn't that long ago when banks were really holding onto their capital. In May of 2023, when we saw Silicon Valley Bank and Signature Bank fail, lenders were really holding onto their funds, right?

They were worried about liquidity and so forth. Lending was really at a trough. Month after month, since about summer of that year, we've seen banks become more and more confident, and it's showing up in these appraisal numbers. I, uh, I, I think banks being loose but not overly loose with their funds is a great place to be for the commercial real estate market.

Alyssa Lewis: All right, let's jump into our deals for the week. Let's kick it off with development. 

Manus Clancy: I love to highlight deals where. People are taking on projects and are getting construction lending. It's a sign of a confident market when banks are willing to lend on, you know what are basically spec projects and developers are willing to put shovels in the ground.

The one I circled this week when reading our various news subscriptions. Y Tech got a $560 million loan from JP Morgan to build a Miami condo tower. The project will span almost 200 units, uh, which 60 have already been pre-sold. And not to kind of point out the obvious, but I guess I will right now when banks lend on construction.

They're doing so taking on some execution risk. So when banks are doing this, they're confident that they're gonna get back their money. And it underscores my bullishness on, on CRE in general. By the way. Uh, reporting there from commercial observers, Julia Etson, the properties will be 70 stories at, uh, 1428 Brickell.

Dianne Crocker: You know what's really cool about that one, Manness. This one's for any environmental or energy efficiency listeners. This project is a 70 story solar integrated tower, so it will have photovoltaic glass windows. I didn't even know what that meant. Do you know what that is? Manness. 

Manus Clancy: I think it makes you invisible.

When people are looking through your windows, they don't know that you're there. 

Dianne Crocker: Maybe they do, but what I was going to say is there are solar panels that are built into the windows themselves instead of those mounted panels that we see on rooftops everywhere. So that means the Windows act as many power plants.

So YEC is positioning this project as the first high rise residential tower in the us. To be partially powered by solar. So they've used this kind of glass in smaller scale projects, but this is the first one where it's being done at this scale. And that I think is a reflection of Miami's push for, um, green innovation and, and coastal construction.

And I don't know if you saw the rental rates Manus, but the prices are running from 4.4 million to $60 million penthouses. And I think you said that they had 60 or so already rented out. 

Manus Clancy: The interesting thing here and, and I know that there's vast differences between the ultra high-end condo market and the average condo market in any market that you talk about, any US market.

But the condo market in South Florida has been decidedly weak for a while, and largely because insurance costs are going up, reserve costs are going up. Condos have to reserve more for resiliency. There's been a lot of negative press on there, and yet here you have a developer and a lender leaning in enormously.

Yes. The people that are selling to are very deep pocketed, but this particular development is taking place at a time when that market has really had a lot of headline risk. 

Dianne Crocker: Yeah. Miami's becoming though the new blueprint for Urban Luxury Resilience sounds like. Okay, let's jump over to leasing. What are we saying there?

Yeah, Alyssa, a new Colliers report came out on the Manhattan office leasing market, showing that office leasing in the big apple surged in October with approximately 3.6 million square feet of deals signed, and that was up one third over September. And the other interesting thing is that year to date, through the end of October.

The leasing already surpassed the full year total for last year, and it put 2025 on track to exceed 40 million square feet. That would be for the first time since before COVID, and that on the supply side availability tighten two. Manhattan's office availability rate was reported at 14.6 in the third quarter, and that was a meaningful drop.

And that the available inventory for sublease dropped to levels last seen at the start of COVID. So there are fewer large blocks available for, uh, signing big leases. So I think it's good news for New York that major tenants are signing large blocks. Again, I think it we're definitely seeing a lot of signs of renewed confidence in Manhattan as a a global business hub.

And I think, you know, also competition for the, the top tier space, the Class A space is so fierce that tenants are, are sometimes having to literally decide between a great location or a great building. So I think there's still a 15% vacancy rate. Um, and as we've been talking about here on the pod, a fair number of older buildings are being converted to housing, but the vibe has definitely shifted, I think after a couple years of skepticism.

What do you think Manis? 

Manus Clancy: Well, a lot of what you're saying was really underscored by Vernado's earnings, which came out a couple days ago, reporting from Amanda Shiavo of commercial observer, Vernado. Both revenue and funds from operations grew year over year considerably. For the first three quarters of the year, Vernado leased 3.7 million square feet overall, of which about two thirds was office space.

For those that don't know. Tornado, often known as an office operator, but they often, they have an awful lot of retail in New York as well, street level retail in the New York area, and they posted really terrific numbers. And I think it's in line with what you were saying before, Dianne, about New York leasing being up.

But I do think to take the other side of the, the, the glass half empty side of the data, I do think that New York, at least at the moment. Is very much an outlier. I think that this really hyperbolic or parabolic move in leasing in New York. Is really limited to New York and maybe a little bit in San Francisco with AI firms.

I don't think we've seen this kind of demand taking root in Chicago, Charlotte, Pittsburgh, Portland, Seattle. I, I think New York, at least for now, is the outlier. 

Dianne Crocker: Agreed. And I, I read a story recently that Boston was hopeful that that trend would migrate up there, but I, I don't think that there's any other metro that's as close, um, to New York City in terms of this record, high office leasing.

Manus, let's 

Alyssa Lewis: jump into our deals for the week. What are you saying? 

Manus Clancy: Well, three jumped out at me in three separate property types. I'll run through them in succession. They were all very positive headlines in Scottsdale. This reporting by Haley Mesnick of the Phoenix Business Journal, there're a 180,000 square foot class.

A office building was sold for over $70 million. The Axis Raintree in that building, that sale represented the highest office sale in that market for the year. Interesting thing here, the buyer was Douglas Reagan Horton, who is part of the Horton Single Family Homes legacy, and we know them to be basically home builders.

I don't know what the, the angle is here yet. But interesting to see someone who is naturally in the residential side dipping their toe into the office space in Scottsdale. We'll have to keep an eye on on that particular one, but a record setting. Price in office for Scottsdale for 2025 in industrial Prologis.

Spent over 300 million on a set of assets in the Bay Area that included 11 buildings in Brisbane's Crocker Industrial Park. The $315 million sales price was the highest ticket item in the Bay Area Industrial Market this year. Reporting there by Douglas Sams of the San Francisco Business Times. Lastly, by far the biggest sale of the weak Well Tower in the medical office space, sold 18 million square feet of outpatient space to a combination of Remedy Medical and Kane Anderson.

The price tag there, 7.2 billion. The span is almost 300 properties. Across 34 separate states. So a lot of big headlines this week. Certainly we could have thrown in some discounted office sales. Those happen every week, but we chose to go glass half full today. Dianne. 

Dianne Crocker: Yeah, I'm all for that. Manis, I have to say, my ears perked up when I heard my tribe's name.

When you were talking about the Crocker Industrial Park and the Prologis deal. That story in itself was interesting because I, I think it's a good example of what's driving industrial. Interest right now, AI e-commerce, that Peninsula and San Francisco's metro is definitely one of the most supply constrained markets in the us.

And I wanna mention at yesterday's Refa event where Victor spoke, they had a very good panel afterwards where they basically had experts in each of the major food groups. And the industrial guy on the panel was Adam. Win Stanley. And what he said was, you know, in industrial everything is more expensive for construction, labor materials, uh, building utility infrastructure.

So there's essentially no spec construction happening in industrial. And because of that, renewals are really, really strong. He said that anybody who's doing spec building in industrial is taking the biggest financial risk of their lifetime. And I think a deal like. Prologis really proves this point. You know, owners of existing industrial product, especially in tight locations like this, are in a really strong position and this had to be an appealing portfolio at 95% occupancy.

So I think, you know, that parcel is probably virtually irreplaceable out there. 

Alyssa Lewis: Okay, it's time for a little slice of life. Next week we honor our veterans and in that spirit, Dianne's gonna give us a little something to think about. 

Dianne Crocker: Yeah, I found a story that is kind of at the intersection of Veterans Day and our, our important military and commercial real estate, and the story is about the Pentagon.

Now, considering leasing parts of Camp Pendleton, for those who may not be familiar, camp Pendleton as a massive marine base, it covers 125,000 acres of. Beautiful Southern California coastline, and they're considering leasing parts of it to commercial developers. Navy Secretary John Fain is a Trump appointee.

He's got a business background and he wants to bring more business practices to the Navy. So the plan's far from a done deal, but. Given that Camp Pendleton is the largest undeveloped section of the coastline, you have to think that developers would be salivating to get in there. Before I get your opinion, Manis, I'll say that any developers would have an uphill battle, especially with environmental issues because the basis water supply has already been dealing with PFOS contamination and.

The area is also home to endangered plants and animals, and it's an important stop for migrating Monarch butterflies. 

Manus Clancy: Yes, but you can't beat the location. Something tells me that a creative developer will be able to overcome the PFAS and the migration issues. We certainly know that affordable housing in Southern California is hard to come by, and if this can improve and increase the housing stock considerably, I, I'd love to see it.

Take place, especially if it's tastefully done. But going back to, and I'm glad Alyssa started with this, for our slice of life, a truly heartfelt thank you to all the listeners out there or their families who serve this country. I know in the commercial real estate space, we've seen a lot of people transition from serving the military to become part of the CRE industry, and I can't thank everybody enough who serves this country and keeps us safe every single day, sometimes.

That part of our country for granted and we never should. So Happy Veterans Day to everybody out there listening and their families that serve this country. Here here. Happy Veterans Day, all. 

Alyssa Lewis: Thank you to our producer, Josh Bruyning. Please join the LightBox team every week as they share CRE news and data and context. You can listen on any of your favorite podcast channels and send your comments or questions to podcast@LightBoxre.com. As always, thank you for listening and have a great week. 

Manus Clancy: Let's go.