Episode 17: How Mr Chen’s is bridging the gap between Asian dining and grocery retail

In this episode, Amie and Angeline sit down with Lucy Chen, co-CEO of Mr Chen's Dumplings to discuss how a passion for food plays a huge role in ensuring authenticity and flavour remain absolute priorities for Mr Chen’s in order to maintain growth and build market share.

Transcript

Amie:

Welcome to Women Transforming Food, a monthly podcast brought to you by G100 and Inside FMCG, exploring the stories of inspiring women shaping the food industry. Today, I'm joined by my co-host, G100, Mission Million Angelina Acharya, Asia Pacific Chair of the Food Systems Innovation and Resilience Wing, and Lucy Chen, co-CEO of Mr. Chen's Dumplings. Welcome, ladies.

Lucy brings a unique perspective to the food industry, having transitioned from a successful technology career at NAB and Telstra to lead her family's 40 year old business alongside her sister, Nancy. Under their leadership, Chen Foods has evolved from supplying Asian grocery stores to achieving national distribution across Coles and Woolworths with over 100 product lines. Today, we explore how this second generation leader has maintained the authentic flavors her father brought as a Vietnamese refugee in 1978, while transforming the business into a modern powerhouse that has doubled revenue over the past six years.

Amie:

Welcome ladies.

Angeline:

Hello Amie, hi Lucy, welcome.

Lucy:

Thank you, Angeline. Hi, Amie, how you going?

Amie:

Your father arrived in Aus tralia with recipes and determination. How has that original refugee experience, the mission to preserve cultural flavor, shaped your approach to business today, allowing Mr. Chen's to stand out as you scale from local grocers to national supermarket shelves where you are today?

Lucy:

Yeah, so mom and dad came from Vietnam as refugees with nothing and we grew up in the housing commission. I think that's always really affected my upbringing. And so I always think they came here with nothing and they gave us education. Imagine what we could do. And so the sky was always the limit with us, with my sister and I running the business. We thought, you know, they came here with nothing. We should be able to do something amazing and build something amazing. And as far as I can remember, food has always been a big part of our family. We always eat dinner together every night at the dinner table. And back then when we were living in the Housing Commission, Dad was always fastidious about food, you know, where would you buy what meat, how do you cut the Chinese broccoli and how do you angle the knife to slice it so it tastes the best. So it's always been a part of our upbringing and culture. kind of that passion for food with business, that's a possibility.

Angeline:

I love that dinner together every night. That's probably one of those rarities these days. Lucy, you mentioned you and Nancy wrote down these core values when the business was small and you still use them today. And you've now grown to over 100 lines. What's sort of the non-negotiable standards, systems or processes that you've put in place to ensure that while you expand, that doesn't compromise the original authentic taste profile, the very thing that your family's reputation is built upon?

Lucy:

It's a funny thing when I reflect back because Nancy and I sat down and we wrote our vision and our values when there it was only five people in our business and now there's around 40 people. And so I think we knew early on who we are and I think that's quite important to us. So when I think about authenticity, I think there's two parts to that. One is kind of being true to who you are. I always think that there's a saying that says you know, be yourself because everyone else has taken. And I really feel like Nancy and I knew who we were. We wrote down the values. And then after we did that, we then went and found people to work with us in our company, our team that matched those values. And so if you come and do an interview in our business, you'll get asked some really strange and curly questions because they're related to our values. So they're really important in how we run the business. And they always say, you know, I think sometimes it's...bit of a catchphrase around people but we really do live our values in our business.

Angeline:

We're going to have to ask what one of those strange and curly questions are.

Amie:

I was about to say I want to ask so badly but also what are the values that have sort of run true to today?

Lucy:

Yeah. Well, I was going to say, I can't ask you the questions because we do always get the feedback that people don't get asked these questions and I don't want to, you ruin the surprise for people. Yeah. So we've got five values and they spell the word H-E-A-R-T because I think it's always been a part of the way Nancy and I are in the family that we've got a lot of heart and the values are humble but hungry, embrace challenge and execute fast. A game, we bring it relationships, we rock them and teams have each other's back. and there's kind of a story around each one, but I do think a lot of it has to do with, you know, what I said about mum and dad coming from Vietnam with nothing.

Amie:

So Lucy, you'd have witnessed Australian pallets, evolve pretty dramatically over time. How do you manage that creative tension of honoring deeply traditional recipes while sort of innovating and adapting to meet the expectations of younger mainstream consumers?

Lucy:

Yeah, so our business is kind of divided into two parts, kind of what you see with Mr. Chen's in the Coles-Woolworths side of things. And then we have an Asian grocery business as well, where we sell to Asian groceries and restaurants around Australia. And so in that channel, I feel like we're able to really talk to authentic customers. And there's some things that were never mainstream. So we sell pickled Vietnamese leek and pickled fish, and that's not going to go mainstream. But there's some things that have been, Dumplings was one example of products that were selling really well in Asian grocery stores and restaurants and we brought it into the mainstream. I think the generation nowadays, the younger mainstream generations, they haven't grown up with meat and three veg. They've grown up with sushi, they've grown up traveling to Asia, travelling back when I was younger, it was a lot more expensive than now, so I feel like just being on top of those trends and making sure that we are giving the flavour and authentic flavour to the mainstream consumers, really bringing them into Asian food.

Angeline:

And Lucy, you came from tech into the family business. So you spent a fair bit of a career beforehand and you've discovered this natural sales ability and have driven incredible expansions. So congratulations on that. What are the key insights and strategies that have unlocked the transition from Asian grocery distribution to securing and maintaining space with the two majors?

Lucy:

That's a good question because I don't feel like there was strategy as much as ignorance. And so my sister and I had some ideas around what we thought people would want to eat. And we went and approached the retailers with zero experience. And one of the things, the analogy that I think of is, know that punching bag that you punch and it comes back up? Yeah. I felt like that was us. went and there was one time we had an ambient range, is now in the retail, there's a meal kit range that we really believed in. And we just kept going back. I think we were rejected four times. And we hadn't, at that time, really understood how to deal with the retailers. We just kept coming back with it, you know, tweaking the offer until we got it in. So a part of it was ignorance. And then the other part is really believing that we had something that we thought consumers would really want to eat.

Angeline:

Yeah. And keep trying, right? So still after four no's you keep going again. That's great to hear.

Lucy:

Yeah.

Amie:

Persistence. You've spoken about making Asian food less intimidating for home cooks. Now I am very bad at cooking. Angeline knows this, but she's very good at cooking. 

Angeline:

But you like eating, as do I.

Amie:

I very much, I love eating, but I'm not good at cooking. And I do know from the times that I've attempted, there's nothing more disappointing than when you start a recipe and it doesn't turn out. That's pretty much just me. But how has the philosophy of accessibility influenced your product innovation?

Lucy:

Yeah, so I'm with you, Amy. I love eating. I don't love cooking as much, but thank goodness I'm... Yeah. So I think the research actually shows that in terms of all types of cuisine, Asian cuisine is the most popular in terms of what we want to go out and eat and the flavors that we love, but it's the least represented in the supermarket. And I think, as you know, with Asian cuisine, it's always like 10 to 15 ingredients just to make like, a soup or a stir fry that tastes authentic. And so I think that's been really important in how we've developed our food to make sure that it's authentic tasting and the steps are easier than having 20 different condiments in your fridge.

Angeline:

And in our family business, you're focusing on the operations and Nancy's on the product development and taste side. How do you both navigate that decision making when commercial opportunities might challenge product authenticities? Could you share an example where you had to make this choice?

Lucy:

So it's funny that you asked that question because my commercial team came to me with a proposition two weeks ago around our chili oil. So there's 30 chili oils on the market and our team went out to try and the best or develop the best chili oil. So we had a team of three or four, the commercial team including Nancy, my sister who does the products. And they tried every single chili oil. They sat there over the course of the afternoon.

dipping crackers into each chili oil and we developed a chili oil that we think is the best in the market. Unfortunately that chili oil is not very commercial, so it's not a product that is sustainable for us commercially and the team came to me two weeks ago and said, we need to take this product off the market. They were really shocked to hear me say, do we have to? It's the best product, it's one of the best chili oils out there.

And then it's hard because we don't want to dilute the product, we don't want to make it smaller to make it commercial. So then what decision do we make with that, especially because we want people to eat delicious products. And so I don't have the answer yet, but that is one of the things that I'm working through about what to do with that particular product. I think it's really tough, especially with the cost of living and things like that that are happening in the market at the moment.

Angeline:

Wow, I better get some bottles of your chilli oil before it goes out the window. No, I'll go buy it. I'm a chilli oil fan, but you're so right. There's not always the good ones out there.

Lucy:

Yeah, I'll make sure I send you guys some.

Amie:

So is my hubby actually. So maybe it's like a good Christmas present. Okay, so for other entrepreneurs running family or cultural food businesses, what advice do you have to ensure their authentic story and flavor remains that absolute priority like you guys have done amidst the pressures of commercial growth?

Lucy:

Yeah, I think for us, going back to our values and knowing who we are and who we're not has been really important for growing the team. And then in terms of preserving the culture, I think it's always tempting to go and be mainstream. And what I mean by that, and this is obviously changed over the years, is that typically a lot of Asian flavors have gone on the side of sweet to kind of be able to cater for what is considered mainstream, but we've always been trying to stay as authentic as we can because we think the Australian palate has become way more sophisticated over the years. We think everyone's ready and people want to eat those authentic flavors.

Angeline:

And so Lucy, looking ahead, what do you see as the biggest challenge to maintaining that authentic Asian flavor in the Australian market? And how are you preparing the business to ensure that Mr. Chen's legacy continues to the next generation?

Lucy Chen:

So I think the world is becoming a smaller place with social media, with new brands popping up all the time, with even the bigger brands coming into the Australian market as well. Australia is very, very unique in that with our close proximity to Asia and our love for Asian food. And so I think for us to maintain our legacy and the brand Mr. Chen's is that we need to stay agile, stay on top of trends and also be really conscious of our authentic roots.

Angeline:

And can I ask a follow up on that? Are you seeing the rise of imports coming in and therefore maybe even more authentic imports? Do you see that as a bit of a threat or an opportunity for your brand?

Lucy:

Yeah, 100% we're seeing lots of brands from Asia coming in, but I think Australians love Australian businesses and so I think, and our story and how we've grown up in Australia, so I think that's helped us a lot and the trust around our brand as well.

Amie:

So to wrap up, I'd love for you to give us a little bit of an insight in terms of, you know, Asian food, Asian flavors. You said you're always on trend. What is trending and what are you looking forward?

Lucy:

Yeah, so K-pop Demon Hunters, for anyone who has children, my daughter's watched it 20 times. And so I just think that the influence of K-pop Demon Hunters, you the highest grossing film on Netflix, the most watched film. If you didn't know what ramen was before, you definitely know what it is now. And your children would definitely want to eat it now. So I think Asian food and Korean food as well is having its moment at the moment, which is very exciting for our business.

Amie:

I can imagine well thank you Lucy thank you Angeline and a big thank you for listening to this episode of women transforming food. If you've enjoyed this podcast feel free to like and subscribe wherever you tune into your podcasts.