The Current

Dave Creel - Forging Peace: The Guns to Gardens Movement

Chris Nafis Season 2 Episode 9

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The sound of a hammer striking hot metal echoes across a church parking lot as something remarkable unfolds—a deadly weapon transforms into a tool for growing food. This is the Guns to Gardens movement, and in this powerful conversation with volunteer Dave Creel, we explore how unwanted firearms become symbols of peace and new life.

Dave walks us through the practical mechanics of these community events, where safety officers dismantle guns according to ATF guidelines before blacksmiths and woodworkers transform the components into garden trowels, spades, and works of art. The symbolism is profound—objects designed for destruction becoming instruments of cultivation. "From things that take life to things that cultivate life," as Dave beautifully puts it.

What makes this conversation particularly compelling are the personal stories. Dave shares how the Uvalde school shooting, coming just after his child's birth, propelled him into action. He reflects on his lifelong proximity to gun violence—from a middle school friend who nearly took his life with his father's gun to hearing a hundred rounds fired at his neighborhood park where his children play. These aren't isolated incidents; they reflect an American reality where firearms are the leading cause of death for children and teens, and a surprisingly high number of us personally know someone who's been shot.

The Guns to Gardens movement offers more than symbolic transformation—it provides practical solutions for people who inherit unwanted firearms or no longer wish to keep them. One woman brought five loaded guns to an event after her husband's passing, having no idea how to safely dispose of them. The events create space for people to share their stories of trauma and find healing through creative transformation.

Though the project has faced pushback from those who view it as politically charged, Dave emphasizes that their mission transcends politics. Inspired by the biblical image of beating swords into plowshares, volunteers approach their work as a tangible expression of faith and nonviolence. They're motivated not by political agendas but by a vision of communities freed from the fear that drives our relationship with guns.

Ready to transform objects of fear into symbols of hope in your community? Check out Raw Tools online to discover how you can get involved in this growing movement of creative peacemaking.

Speaker 1:

Hi and welcome back to the Current. This is Pastor Chris Naphis, and today I'm excited because I got to go on this incredible trip to Northern Ireland that church folks have heard me talk about. It was an immersion trip into the Troubles in Belfast and training in peacemaking, specifically to become a peace fellow who's doing the work of peacemaking. And on that trip I got to meet a bunch of amazing people. I'm going to hope to bring a bunch of them on the podcast, but the first one is today. His name is Dave Creel.

Speaker 1:

He's a new friend who is a volunteer for the Guns to Gardens Project, which is a movement that's happening all over the country where people are bringing in unwanted firearms, chopping them up, melting them down, carving the wood and turning them into garden tools and works of art. It's inspiring work, it's profoundly symbolic and we get to kind of dive into it in the podcast today. I hope you'll enjoy hearing about it and feel inspired to do some work of peacemaking yourself. Here it is. Well, hey, dave, it's really fun to get to spend some time with you in Northern Ireland and so grateful you agreed to come and spend some time with us here on the podcast. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2:

Glad to be here.

Speaker 1:

So Guns to Gardens is your thing, is your project, and I was just saying this before we hit record that, like everybody that heard the Guns to Gardens thing on our trip and I just was mentioning it to Rachel, my wife everybody's ears perk up. It's like such a cool concept. Could you just like tell us about it a little bit, like how'd you get involved and what do you do?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, sure. So Guns to Gardens is actually. It's part of a national movement of volunteers that are seeking to promote nonviolence in our country, and we're doing that by taking unwanted firearms and transforming them into things like garden tools and art. So symbols of peace, you could say, from things that take life to things that cultivate life. That's kind of one of our mottos.

Speaker 1:

That's so cool. So how did you stumble into this project specifically? Did you start this organization or was this something going on and you jumped in?

Speaker 2:

No, I definitely did not start it. I would say I'm just a volunteer. I helped stand up one of the events in Bend, oregon, but this is something that's been going on for quite some time and if you were to Google Guns to Gardens, you'll see a bunch of different cities pop up after that Google prompt, and that's because it's happening kind of all around the nation. And I would say one of the biggest drivers of it has been an organization called Raw Tools and that's led by Mike Martin. Him and Shane Claiborne wrote a book called Beating Guns, which I highly recommend to anyone interested in this topic.

Speaker 2:

But they're the ones kind of driving this idea of, hey, let's take some, let's take some guns and let's turn them into some symbols of peace. Let's get guns off the streets that people don't want. In America we have more guns than people, or at least close to it, which is just wild right. And let's get some of those out of the streets and let's turn them into something creative, channel them into something creative, which is also a cathartic and meaningful process for a lot of people, especially since guns carry so much emotion. There's so many stories behind them, stories of trauma, stories of hurt, and you know so that there's a lot of reasons for people to kind of see what we're doing and get involved in it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, for sure. I mean there's so many layers to it too, because there's like some practical sides of things of just like there are guns out there that nobody wants around and you're just practically turning guns into something else that's useful, and there's like also like the symbolic layer of like how meaningful this is, and then, like you said, the cathartic layer of the stories behind the guns. I mean, first, could you just like, what do you do? Like where do you get the guns? How do you?

Speaker 2:

destroy them. Walk us through? Yeah, absolutely so. The way that we did it in Bend, oregon, through a church called Antioch Antioch Church, was that we held an event. It would be similar to a buyback event, except it's not a buyback. What we do is we actually invite people that no longer want to own weapons to come to the church parking lot on a specific day and they essentially they bring their weapons in the trunk of their car unloaded.

Speaker 2:

We have safety officers that are on site, that are trained in firearm handling, that will take the guns out of the back of the, dismantle them there by cutting through the actual firearm, through the receiver of the gun, which kind of runs behind the trigger, to make sure that it's completely dismantled and can't be used.

Speaker 2:

So it's a process of dismantling that actually follows ATF guidelines, and we then cut the gun into about three different parts and we pass the weapons into a bucket. At that point the gun is no longer owned by the person. They pass it off to us as scrap metal, since they haven't left the premises. There's no transfer of ownership, which I think is a big reason people will take issue with these events. They think that we're transferring ownership of weapons without going through the proper process. But what we actually do is we invite them to stay there while we chop up the gun and once it's no longer a usable firearm, it's essentially junk metal and then they're free to leave and we take those parts and we turn them into garden tools and art and other fun things.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, man, the legal side. There's so many things you just don't even think about, like yeah, because these are like registered gun owners most of the time, probably. I mean, does it matter if someone has like an unregistered gun or like a gun they bought illegally or something Like? What do you do with that? You?

Speaker 2:

know we'll chop up anything you bring to us. That's just kind of our policy as a church not speaking for the church, I should say as part of the Guns to Gardens movement. What we're there to do is just to provide a place for you to get rid of guns that you no longer want, and so any gun that is not wanted we will, um, we will dismantle, um, and we've dismantled everything from a rifle from the 18, 18 thirties um up to an Uzi, uh, and you know it's. We'll take any gun out of the community, um, because we see all guns as as potential you know, potentially unsafe if they're not properly stored and properly cared for.

Speaker 2:

So this isn't to shame anybody that is a gun owner is a safe gun owner. But there are a lot of guns out there that are unsafely stored, a lot of guns that are sitting around houses. Some are loaded. We've had people bring guns to our events that are loaded because they don't know how to properly unload them. Um, they were gifted to them. So we're there to to check those weapons properly and then disarm them.

Speaker 1:

I mean it is. So we we found in our, the first place we rented in San Diego. We were helping kind of clean up this house for this guy that had lived there, as his mom or his aunt had lived there for tons of years I don't know, she was like 96 or something but we were cleaning out the closet where I think he was getting their carpet replaced, and underneath this like loose carpet, there was like a little gun. It was like this tiny little handgun and, um, we're just like what do we do? What do you do with it? You know, like we didn't know what to do with it. We ended up giving it to the landlord and letting him deal with it.

Speaker 1:

But you can see situations where people would like just come into ownership of a gun that they don't want or feel like they're all of a sudden things are unsafe or they realize that they don't want to. They don't want this to be a part of their life. But then what do you do with the gun? So you guys are helping solve like a real life problem, right?

Speaker 2:

It is. And you know, something that actually surfaced for us after the first event we did was that, that service, that that kind of solving a problem for the community, that that isn't. It's not easy to get rid of a gun, right, like you were just saying. One woman came to our event whose late husband had left her with five guns after he passed and she didn't want them. She didn't know how to use them or safely store them. So she brought five weapons to our event and all five of them were loaded, and so we saw that as a service to unload them and to dismantle them there, and I think that we prevented a possible tragedy from occurring in her home. You know, whether that be with grandchildren running around or or just someone who sees a gun and thinks it's unloaded and plays around with it, you know, adults can make those mistakes too. Um so uh, we were very happy to get those out of um, out of her home for her.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I. So this is a question maybe out of ignorance or something, cause I'm not like a gun person, but like what are guns made at? Like what kind of metal is it and what? What do you have to do Cause you like melt, melt down the metal parts and make actual tools out of them? Yeah, and I mean, like what kind of metal is it? Recording the video? Here's a.

Speaker 2:

Here's an example of a fire, uh, of a firearm, turned into a garden tool here. Um, but yeah, they're all different sorts of metal, you know, and steel and wood, depending on you know the manufacturer and you know some. Some guns have a lot of plastic included in them too, especially, you know, cheaper ones. So we, we had a blacksmith in our congregation in Bend that that actually had a mobile forge on site and, would you know, would melt the heat, the heat, the steel, and pound it into, you know, the spade. Uh, myself I'm a woodworker, and so I would actually take the gunstocks and turn them on the lathe to get the handles, um, which was fun to kind of join the two together and make something new. So, yeah, it's a really fun and creative process to to take something that has so much potential for harm and turn it into something that you know you can use out in the garden.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's so cool. I mean, and you're showing it for those who are watching on YouTube you could see the spade that he was holding up and or the trowel. But if you're not like, where can people go and Google just raw tools or where could they go check out what you've made?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, for ones that raw tools has made. You can look at rawtoolsorg. They actually sell them on their website For local churches that are involved in this. Oftentimes they'll sell them locally or at craft fairs and things of that nature or conferences nonviolence conferences, yeah. But I would start by researching Raw Tools a whole host of great things that they've made and and they've spotlighted some amazing artists too that have have gone above and beyond, making some really, really amazing art.

Speaker 1:

Have you used the tools Like are they legit? You know what I mean. How do they compare to like a professionally made shovel or whatever.

Speaker 2:

You know I ours actually sits on a on a shelf in our, our home, just kind of as as a symbol of something that we can speak to when, when people ask about the work that we do. But some people do use them in the garden. So I'm not I'm not sure how they compare. I would say, you know, this one feels pretty sturdy. So I think it could, I think it could plant some things. Yeah, okay, yeah.

Speaker 1:

That's so cool and they're beautiful too, like they're, you know, like you said, you've got artists involved in making them, and so, again, like I just have so many questions, like so many things that I want to know about it, but how many of these are you doing, like, how many guns are you getting off of the street and out of homes and give me some sense of like scale and stuff?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I'll kind of speak a little bit to my story a little bit. So a couple of years ago my wife and I got involved in this in Bend, oregon, and we were a part of two events there. And then we have since relocated to Portland Oregon where we're working on standing up a Portland chapter of this movement. But the church in Bend has continued and had four successful events. So far. They've dismantled well over 100 weapons, I think over 120, probably at this point. The first event, we were hoping maybe four people showed up, you know, with guns. But by the time we wrapped up our morning prayer session, you know, before the event, there was already a line of cars around the block and we ended up dismantling over 70 weapons. And many people had multiple weapons that they were ready to dismantle, ready to get out of their homes.

Speaker 2:

Many people were really thankful for this, just as a service, because it's just again not an easy thing to get rid of. It's really intimidating the idea of if I want to sell it, then I got to go through the proper channels. I don't want to sell it illegally because then I don't know what it's going to be used for. I don't want to take it to a pawn shop. I can't sell it online, you know. I mean you're walking through all the things. I guess it's just easier to stick in the closet and so having this anonymous event where you could just show up and we dismantle it for you and you can kind of just have that weight off your shoulders for a lot of people was they were really grateful for it yeah, yeah, that's so cool and you know, obviously you mentioned earlier, there's like a gun per person in the united states, so it's going to take a lot of uh chop saws to get rid of like all of the guns or something.

Speaker 1:

But I do think there's something deeply symbolic about, like, what you're doing. Um, I mean, it's, it's part of our uh scriptural heritage. You know, like beating, you know beating uh weapons into plowshares and all that and um, yeah, well, like what do you? Like? It's like a witness, right? So what's the message that you feel like people hear, that you want people to hear from, from the project?

Speaker 2:

yeah, I appreciate you asking that, because you're right in that we're not going to chop up every gun in America and that's not really the point of what we're trying to do, right? We're not. We're not claiming that this is going to even really make a dent in the number of guns that are out there, kind of putting a stake in the ground, saying, hey, there's another way. And we're doing this inspired by the nonviolent message of Jesus. And you know what does the Bible say more than anything? And that's be not afraid.

Speaker 2:

Fear drives so many people on either side of this issue. You have people that are buying guns out of fear and people that are afraid to go to places because of guns, right, and you have everybody is afraid, everybody's afraid, and reacting to this in different ways, reacting to this issue in different ways. It's driving people to buy more weapons. It's exacerbating the issue, right? Some people will say that the answer to guns is more guns.

Speaker 2:

I had a friend online who posted after seeing a news story that made her afraid. Who posted after seeing a news story that made her afraid, she posted I think I'm going to go buy a gun as a way to protect her family. And I tried to reason with her, with stats, right, because there's so many stats that say why you shouldn't do that, why you shouldn't bring a gun into your home. You're more likely to introduce an accident into your home than to actually defend yourself from a harmful invader. But it's when fear is driving people. You know how do you speak to that and I think that we speak to that through the gospel message. You know through, through, you know, the message of the Bible of being not afraid. You know of speaking to them about Jesus and his. You know his message of nonviolence as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, I mean it's amazing how much fear drives like all sorts of things. And, um, thinking about guns, you know well I mean, so it's interesting. We talked a little bit on the trip about this, but, um, do you find that it's people own guns for different reasons, like in different places, so you kind of move from like a rural place to an urban place and I feel like we were, we talked a little bit about just kind of the difference in in sort of guns in those different locations. Um, do you find that, like fear is a driver in different ways in different places? Or I don't know, do you have what do you think about that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

I think, um, where we were, uh, in bend, there's a lot of uh, a lot of self-preservation mindset.

Speaker 2:

You know, especially, uh, people that are maybe on uh, larger pieces of land, kind of rancher culture, that want to make sure that they're um, they're protecting their families, protecting their space.

Speaker 2:

Um, but moving into a more urban environment, um, you know, we have, uh, you know, a houseless crisis here in in in Portland, um, a houseless crisis here in Portland, and there's actually a rise or maybe I shouldn't say a rise, but there is a lot of the gun violence we see in the city is actually amongst the unhoused population, and you can think about if you're living on the street and you're trying to keep yourself safe amidst all the dangers that surround you. You know, a gun, finding a gun or being given a gun seems like an easy way to protect yourself in that situation, when it really could just drive you into more harm and put yourself into a more dangerous situation. So there's lots of context here. In Oregon, we also experience a lot of suicide by gun, so, and that's prevalent across the US as well, so that's a major issue wrapped's prevalent across the U? S as well, uh, so that that's a major issue, wrapped up in in the gun violence epidemic as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean it's interesting Like we, my wife and I, lived out on a ranch out in Hamul, which for non San Diego people that's like out in East County, uh, you know, 30, 40 miles East of the city, and we were like two miles down a dirt road on this 45 acre ranch. We're the only ones you know and you kind of realize like no, no one's going to make it here to help if I need help, you know, and I think like urban people don't really think about that reality. For people that live kind of out in the sticks a little bit, um, but even, but so you can see how fear drives. And then I feel like in the urban context like we have, we're kind of all on top of each other. And then you, I mean you fear people, right, like there's people everywhere. But I think like it's helpful to kind of get some of those stats of to realize like, okay, I feel like I'm protecting myself with this thing.

Speaker 2:

The odds are I'm actually putting myself in some danger because I'm putting something very dangerous like right around me right, yeah, I mean, guns are the the leading cause of death for children and teens in america, which is, I mean, if you just sit with that for a minute, like that's, that's just terrifying, right, you know I'm a parent, I know you're a parent as well like that's the reality of our, our nation.

Speaker 2:

And introducing, when you think about a gun, right, just its presence increases the likelihood that it will be used. If a gun is not there, it can't be used. So if a gun is in the home and a situation arises where you are afraid, then you have the opportunity to go get that weapon and use it. If you don't have a gun, then you can't go get it, you can't use it, and you know, the majority of the time that gun isn't actually necessary I would say, more than the majority of the amount of time that the stats are pretty staggering. I think of the likelihood that you would actually need a weapon and if you're safely storing that gun, the chances of you logically being able to go get it and use it in the time that you would need it, they don't really make sense, which then drives people to keep them unsafely stored in the event of an outcome which is unlikely, which again opens up lots of possibility for accidents and harm to take place.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, yeah, and you don't even think about. I mean, I feel like we talk about guns and you think about people who are victims of gun violence. But the other side is also pretty awful, like, if you think about you know someone, you feel like someone's breaking into your house. You grab your gun, you bring it out there, even if you don't fire it, like that's a traumatizing experience for everyone involved. Let's say, you actually do shoot somebody. I mean that's like a horrible thing also. You know, you got to look at that the rest of your life?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I don't think enough people really really take that to its natural conclusion, right, like if so, someone breaks into your home and then you kill them, right, and you have to then live with the fact that you killed that person. And if they're breaking into your home, are they really breaking into your home to actually harm you? And you know the likelihood of that. I mean that that does happen. I'm not going to pretend that it doesn't happen or hasn't happened before, but the majority of situations where people are breaking into homes are not to murder people. Where people are breaking into homes or not to murder people, right, it's theft, or you know?

Speaker 2:

You look at some of the other reasons people might break in. Are those capital crimes? Are those worthy of death? Are those worthy of death without due process? Are you going to play judge and jury in the moment and actually end their life over this thing? It's pretty weighty to think about putting yourself in that scenario and I totally understand the mindset of wanting to protect your family, but I also I also think not enough people are really kind of taking that to its its end and thinking, well, I will kill someone you know and live with that. You know I'll be ready to kill someone, that's just.

Speaker 1:

It's a pretty wild notion to me, but right, maybe not others yeah, I mean, whether you face like a legal consequence or not, like whether you get convicted of murder or something, or you get, you know, there's all these stand your ground laws and stuff, like that's kind of one side of it, like you might actually go to prison if you shoot somebody. But even if you don't like, there's just the weight of it and yeah, I mean pretty gun violence is just awful, you know, there's just it's just awful in every way. How's the response been Like? Do you feel like people have responded Well, have you got any pushback, or you know?

Speaker 2:

bend. We we did receive quite a bit of of pushback, um, but I would say we received a lot of uh, a lot of gratitude from people that participated in the event and we received a lot of pushback for people that felt like this was threatening in some way their freedom, threatened, threatening in some way um, gun ownership or uh, you know, was taking, was doing something completely unnecessary. They didn't like that. A church was involved in it.

Speaker 1:

That's interesting. What do they say? Why didn't they like a church being involved in?

Speaker 2:

it. They felt like it was out of place, as if, like the government was somehow, as if the church was reaching into political territory, which I don't necessarily fault that line of thinking, because gun violence has been politicized Right, which is again, it seems absurd when we think about when we actually think about gun violence in America and how many lives it affects. But it's been so greatly politicized that any sort of mention of guns or or even nonviolence, promoting nonviolence, can be seen as political, uh, if done. So, you know, even if you're not, even if you're not necessarily mentioning, you know, a political candidate or or, uh, a specific law, or it can just be seen as a deeply political and divisive issue.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean to be fair. Like it is a political issue, right Like it is, it is political and I think the whether it's like a something that only one party should be concerned with is a whole nother issue, because it is a political issue that should cross those like party lines that you would think you know, but it you know, everything is so polarized now that it seems like it doesn't, but like it feels like because of the weight of like well, we all, you know, like we we haven't even really talked about like the kinds of gun violence that we're so used to seeing on TV now with like the mass shootings. And you know, like my kids, I remember the first time that I heard that my kids had gone through you know like a lockdown at school and like we didn't, we didn't have those when I was a kid and just like the weight of that. You know there's certain ones that just kind of hit people there, like the Uvalde one was a really hard one for me. It just hit different that mass shooting.

Speaker 1:

But, like you, we have these like horrific tragedies that just kind of permeate our spirit, our mind, our politics. Like the conversation, I feel like what you're doing in some ways is meant to respond in kind. You know what I mean. Like it's meant to be something that's symbolic, that's like kind of visceral. Do you feel like that's true, or would you say something different?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I would say that this feels like a tangible way that we can get involved in the issue and and it's so easy to, it's so easy to just feel helpless in this issue.

Speaker 2:

You know you mentioned Uvalde and that was that was actually the tipping point for me and my wife point for me and my wife, my son had just been born. He was, you know, a month old maybe when we saw the news of, of the school shooting in Uvalde and that just we just sat there saying what are we going to do? You know, we're new parents and I'm holding my infant son and saying, you know, how can we, how can this be the world that we're bringing him into? This wasn't what we grew up with, right? And what are we going to do about it? So this opportunity kind of came up. Our church at the time said, hey, we want to go deeper into this issue of gun violence. And we they actually started partnering with raw tools and my wife and I kind of said, hey, we'll, we'll help out. Like this is an issue that's deeply important to us. We've been talking about it for a while. We want to know how we can help. And the church graciously said, well, you know, you can help out by helping lead it. And so it ended up being an opportunity for us to get really involved and get really steeped in this issue and help stand up this event.

Speaker 2:

But I would say, you know, to give it a little bit more context, I was thinking as we were learning and growing in and diving into this guns to gardens movement, I was thinking about my own journey and the moments that I've actually been really proximate to gun violence throughout my entire life, without even thinking about it, because it's just part of our culture. Here, you know, I think back to when I was in eighth grade and a friend shared with me that he he had grabbed his dad's gun. He was very, very close to committing suicide and at the last minute decided not to. And how? I didn't tell someone. And I think I play the what if game. You know what if he had gone through with it and I didn't tell someone? And I'm living with that Right and thankfully he didn't. But that's still. I still sit with that, I still think about that Right, that that that could have completely changed the course of my life in a split split second changed the course of my life in a split split second when I had graduated college.

Speaker 2:

Right the summer after I graduated college, a classmate of mine was in a movie theater in Aurora, colorado, at the Dark Knight movie theater or Dark Knight grand opening, and someone opened fire. And you know, during that mass shooting I'm sure a lot of people will remember that one and she was really, really wounded and wounded really terribly. You, not long after, a family friend was at the Gilroy Garlic Festival and had to cart away wounded that were shot at that mass shooting. And then, you know, not that long ago, about a year ago, you know, we live next to a really great park here in Portland and someone stepped out of a car and fired off a hundred rounds into a crowd in a bunch of houses around the park. I mean, we heard it. I was putting my kids down for bed and we heard this, like you know, this booming a block away from our home and thankfully no one was killed in that one. But they found a hundred, you know, a hundred shells at the park that my son plays at almost every day and I think, wow, I could have been walking my dog and hit by a straight bullet. You know, and I don't feel like I live in a dangerous neighborhood, you know, or anything like that, it's just, this is the culture we live in and I didn't even really think about so many of those instances when I got involved in this movement Uh, you know I was thinking about.

Speaker 2:

You know, uvalde was just so tragic and terrible for the entire nation, for the, you know, for the whole world, just to see that, witness it, and not that long after Sandy Hook, which, again, just like, is so present in everyone's mind, right? So we have these moments that when we all think about it, like how proximate we've been to gun violence you know, 44 percent of Americans, personally, know someone that's been shot, either accidentally or intentionally. And you know there's two of us on the call. I know I've known. You know I've known someone, you know. I mean, we're proving a statistic right there, right, you know, and I'm not sure of your story, but you know, it's just, it's insane to think that this is where we live, you know, and that we're not all rolling up our sleeves to do something about it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean it's kind of normalized, you know, and that, yeah, if you just think through your life, like cause I'm now that you've prompted me you know my, my aunt, was accidentally shot when she was very little by her little brother who had access to a gun and they were playing and uh, you know, like I've I don't know I can list lots of times where I've been proximate to it. You know, we live in a neighborhood that has a lot, a decent amount of gun violence and you know we've had things happen in our, our neighborhood here. Uh, the FBI.

Speaker 1:

I woke up one morning hearing a big thump, thinking that one of my kids fell out of uh, fell out of off a bunk bed or something like that, and I like went wandering around the house it was like dusk or it was like a, not dust, it was like daybreak, basically, like just before the sun was going to come up, and uh saw some things going on on the street outside and the neighbor cat a corner from us. Uh, the FBI had broken down their door and it turned out they were running guns and drugs out of that place. They were doing a morning raid of you know that's like across the street and I had had a run-in with one of the people that was living there like two weeks prior over a dog thing. And I don't know you just you know you can probably go through your life and find lots of times when you're you're pretty close to some something bad happening and right and do we need to all wait until we're all direct victims of it?

Speaker 2:

right, you know to do something about it and and I, yeah, it's wild, you know, just hearing your own, your stories as well and and hearing how many times you've been, you've been proximate to it, and I'm sure you know um many of your listeners will will, if they examine their lives, will feel the same and be able to pinpoint, you know, moments where you know we don't often connect it to like, oh, that was like a gun violence moment, but they were, you know, and yeah. So I think if we all kind of reflect on that, we see that, wow, this is really affecting everybody. This isn't just something we're seeing on the news but, like, many of us have these moments in our lives where and that could have maybe it was really tragic, where it could have been really, really tragic, and that's really scary to think about.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean it's overwhelming and kind of like you said, there's there is a sense of like helplessness out there with it, because you know, we mentioned of all day and like my, I remember that happened like at the end of the school year it was the last day of school for them, I think, and our school year wasn't quite over, and so I remember like last day of school it was real frightening, like man, what if this is like a trend or something like you know, you just kind of think different about it. And there's like this sense of and I mean we've we've mentioned now I don't know how many six, seven mass shootings in this. We could all list off like a ton more and these things happen all the time now. But I think, thinking back to a previous podcast episode that we made, actually for people who've been listening all along, talk to Dr Brad Kelly, who's an Old Testament scholar, about moral injury and the way that like feeling like are like we were, things are out of control for us, that we are either been forced to participate in things that are sort of morally egregious or that our leaders and like the systems we're part of have failed us. It can lead us into this place of despair.

Speaker 1:

But having something good that you do can be so empowering and like it can be so enlivening to like what you're doing, dave, like having this sense that like in this, in this small way, like I know this isn't going to remove all the guns from the neighborhood or even, you know, even from you know this little block of houses that we're doing in the middle of you know wherever the church is, but like I can do something. That's that kind of testifies that there is good in the world, that we can turn something awful into something beautiful. I mean it's just like a powerful message something awful into something beautiful. I mean it's just like a powerful message. I don't know, you know I don't have, like I don't know what to ask on the on the end of that, but like I just really I love what you're doing and it's so inspiring and like, yeah, it's good. I mean I hope you've had those responses too.

Speaker 2:

We have. Yeah, I think we've seen a lot of people kind of take a step back and say, wow, this is something that is really unique and such a positive way to get involved in this movement. I think the other thing you know as a follower of Jesus that really makes me pursue this at a deeper level is that gun violence is something that people often hold very silently right If they've experienced some sort of trauma or tragedy in their life. It's not something that people often walk around talking about freely. Some, you know, some, may be more willing to share their stories, but these are really heavy experiences that people have faced, and these events, these opportunities for people to bring a weapon, a firearm, and have it dismantled, often lead to people sharing their stories as well.

Speaker 2:

And you know, as followers of Jesus, I think we're called to to grow in greater proximity to people's pain and to walk through that with them, and so I think it allows us to to be uh to go deeper in some of those stories, um to allow healing to take place, uh allow people to to share um what they've been through and help them move forward. So this is just a small piece of that. You know, there's lots of. There's lots of people doing good work to bring about healing, um, but this is just another way for us to to get involved, um, and yeah, allow people to uh to experience some sort of of healing or hope.

Speaker 1:

Yeah for sure, I mean you can see that kind of the cascading effect of an event like this. You know every for every gun, uh, that gets taken out. You know there's. There's all these all these kinds of down river effects of of like the story, I mean even the story of like that person gets to tell their their community, like this is what I did I went and just and brought my gun to this place and now someone's using it as you know, a pitchfork or whatever you know.

Speaker 2:

um, you know there's you can see how, like, the goodness of it just kind of spreads beyond like the event itself. Yeah, absolutely there's. I think that there's a lot, of, a lot of possibility for for just great dialogue to that this brings up.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Is it. Is it hard to host these things? Like how do how do you go about like getting something like that started If there's someone listening and they're like I want to start this where I am like how to, how does that work started if there's someone listening and they're like I want to start this, where I am Like, how to?

Speaker 2:

how does that work? Yeah, I, I think, um, the the most important thing you know you need is an excitement for it as an enthusiasm for it, because the logistics are all things that can be worked out. You know you need a space to host it. Um, you need some volunteers that are willing um to to roll up their sleeves and get involved. But all of those things can can be pretty readily found, you know you just need someone to lead the event.

Speaker 2:

So I'm I'm happy to to work with anybody, uh, that wants to stand this up in their own context. And you know, there there's like a little bit of equipment, a little bit of funding that's needed to make an event happen, but it's all fairly reasonable, I think, to to standing up an event like this. It just kind of takes a little bit of a leap of faith knowing that you're going to go somewhere where people are going to be willingly bringing a whole bunch of guns, and so there's a little bit of that. But knowing that people are bringing them because they no longer want them, I think makes it worth it and and it's just a way for us to step into this issue and and yeah, just say I'm going to choose to be not afraid, you know, and and live into that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's beautiful. How many tools do you make per gun? Just curious. You know you can make a couple depending on the type of weapon.

Speaker 2:

but the type of firearm usually like a rifle stock, I can cut into a couple handles. Type of firearm usually like a rifle stock, I can cut into a couple handles. Um, and then you know, depending on the barrel size, if it's a rifle, um, you know, you can, you can make probably a couple of spades out of it. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of like kind of extra scrap metal and parts and things that that, uh, can't necessarily necessarily be made into a garden tool like the one I showed. But, um, that's where artists come in and metal workers and they can make jewelry, they can make. I've seen people make kids toys. I've seen, and this is where you know, if you go into a rawtoolsorg, you can see some of the amazing things that people have been making around the country that are, you know, volunteers in this movement. So it's it's really exciting to see people get creative and and to see people's imaginations get sparked.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, super cool. So the question was kind of out of left field, but I was like I was going to ask that earlier. Um, uh, cool. Well, I mean, like I said, I love, love what you're doing, deeply appreciative of it, like the witness of it is so cool and I'm I'm really thankful you've been able to, uh, you know, share it a little bit at least with our folks. I mean any other things that you want to tell us about, like what this means to you or what it means to the community that you've been a part of, you know?

Speaker 2:

I think, at the end of the day, we live in a society where gun violence is a major issue and it's probably going to be a major issue for some time, and this is the world that our kids are growing up in.

Speaker 2:

And when my kids are older and they say you know, what were you doing about that? And when my kids are older and they say, you know, what were you doing about that? You know, I'll have an answer to that, you know, and I think that applies to a lot of different issues, right, like, not everyone can be involved in every issue, but, but I think, for for me, this is this is one that I deeply care about, and I think it's an example, I think, to my children of of trying to make their world a better place and trying to lead from, of of trying to make their world a better place, uh, and trying to lead from a place of faith. And, uh, knowing that we can't, we can't solve every problem, but we can, we can take a stand for what we think is injustice, uh, and this is just, um, my way of of trying to live into that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Well, it's awesome You're doing good work. Keep it up and yeah, man, blessings to you. Thank you so much for coming on and for people listening. Check him out. He's got Instagram, Dave Creel. What is it, Dave?

Speaker 2:

just recommend everybody to follow Raw Tools, since they're just doing incredible work as an organization, and if you just search Guns to Gardens on Instagram or online, you'll see how this movement plays out across the country, with lots of amazing volunteers and churches that are jumping in getting involved.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I checked out Crew Creative before we did this and there's some really cool just really beautiful images your workshop and some of the tools you've made, and then you can click in certain spots and see stories of some of the events and see some of the actual uh forging of the, of the tools from from the guns and uh, lots of cool stuff to check out. Yeah, thank you so much, dave and uh, if you're listening to this, go give him a follow and uh, and give us a follow like subscribe or whatever, and give us some feedback. Make a comment, let us know how you're hearing these episodes.

Speaker 1:

One of the things that our church has been talking about is wanting to have a little more. You know, we put these out so people who have trouble getting in for a midweek engagement can kind of have a discipleship tool. But we want to see these be more interactive. So have a conversation with somebody about what you heard and tell them what you love, tell them what you hated, uh and uh, and just have a conversation with somebody especially another disciple of Jesus, um, about some of the things you're hearing on here. Um, all right, well, we're going to call it for today. Thank you so much, dave, and uh blessings to you.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for having me. Thank you.

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