It Takes Heart

Building Stronger Communities with Lesley Woolf OAM

• Hosts Samantha Miklos & Kate Coomber • Season 1 • Episode 11

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Join us on a captivating journey to the heart of Australia's remote healthcare landscape with Lesley Woolf OAM, a distinguished healthcare professional whose exemplary 50-year career has earned her the Order of Australia Medal. 

Lesley is the Executive Health Manager at Mala'la Health Service, where she does everything from manage the local morgue to launching critical child health programs - the challenges are both unique and challenging. But Lesley is all about the positive changes brought about by transitioning healthcare to community control. She highlights the importance of collaboration with her team and the journey towards creating a more accessible healthcare environment. 

Get a glimpse into the life of a remote area nurse as Lesley discusses the essential qualifications, ongoing education, and personal resilience required to thrive in these demanding roles. Her stories from places like Mount Isa and the Northern Territory underscore the joy and fulfillment that come with a career in nursing, despite the challenges. Lesley's personal anecdotes and professional milestones shine a light on the remarkable improvements in healthcare services, inspiring listeners to appreciate the power of community-driven healthcare and the passionate individuals like her who make it possible.

This episode of It Takes Heart has CEO of cmr Sam Miklos hosting alongside Head of Talent and Employer Branding, Kate Coomber. 

We Care; Music by Waveney Yasso 

More about Lesley's Charity of Choice, Mala'la Health Services:

Mala'la Health Services
Mala'la Health Service Aboriginal Corporation provides culturally appropriate and comprehensive primary health care services to the people of Maningrida community and surrounding homelands under a community-control model.

Visit https://www.malala.com.au/contact for more information.

Get to know cmr better!
Follow @ittakesheartpodcast on Instagram, @cmr | Cornerstone Medical Recruitment on Linked In, @cornerstonemedrec on TikTok and @CornerstoneMedicalRecruitment on Facebook.

Sam Miklos:

We care for the land and sea. We care for the energy. We care for our community. We care. Welcome to it Takes Heart. I'm Sam Miklos and I'm Kate Coomba. We hope you enjoy these incredible stories of healthcare professionals making a difference in communities across Australia and beyond. Through our conversations, we look to celebrate the spirit of community and care. We acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land who have long practised and shared ancient methods of healing, providing care and support for their communities with wisdom passed down through generations.

Kate Coomber:

Join us as we explore what it truly means to take heart.

Sam Miklos:

Our guest today has 50 years experience as a registered nurse. Recent OAM recipient, leslie Wolfe is currently the Executive Health Manager at Malala Health Service in the Northern Territory and has been working in Maningrida for the past nine years. She holds a master's degree in nursing, international management and mediation, and yet she says that it feels like she had a brain transplant when she created her first health service in Catherine almost two decades ago. What she learnt there drives her passion and purpose to continue pushing the boundaries on what's possible in remote health. Our healthcare professionals that work with Lesley describe her as a fearless leader who is approachable, passionate and so kind. Lesley has worked with our team for many years and they always comment on how amazed they are with just how much she has accomplished and continues to accomplish in her career. Welcome Lesley to. It Takes Heart. Thank you, it's lovely to be here. I've got to ask we've had you fly in on the red-eye flight from Darwin this morning. We've finally got you in our Brisbane office. Did you have your ice bath this morning?

Lesley Woolf OAM:

No. No, Unfortunately there isn't one at the airport.

Sam Miklos:

No, is that a?

Lesley Woolf OAM:

daily ritual for you. Fairly well, yeah, I like to do it in the morning. Otherwise, I try and go to the pool in the morning because we've got a beautiful pool in Maningrida, but the other time it's really great. And this week I've been well and truly under the pump. You know, when you get to the stage where your head's just scrambled and you can't think straight.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

yes, I at night I just sit in it for an hour or so. Just look at the garden, it's it's actually not full of ice. Uh, it's got quite a bit of ice in it, but, um, you know, it's not doable to fill it up with ice wow so I just sit in it and it's just a little cheap job, but it's lovely and I sit there and close my eyes and think of all sorts of nice things and you get out and you feel a million dollars.

Sam Miklos:

I think I need an ice bath.

Kate Coomber:

How did you come to find that Look?

Lesley Woolf OAM:

they're very popular at the moment.

Kate Coomber:

Yeah of course.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

And there's a lot of talk about them. And I know, when I mentioned it to one of my sons he said mum, don't do that. Old ladies die in ice baths. And I thought, oh, I don't know whether I should do that anyway. Um, my neighbour had one and she didn't use it and she was going to throw it away and I said because she, it was a cheap one, and she's. I said, oh, I'll try it. So next thing it's on my back patio and I'm having ice baths and one of our doctors does it when she's there and, um, her ice bath sits in my office when she's not there and I don't use it at work and they're all a bit scrambled at work.

Sam Miklos:

I'm out to the team meeting, which is a regular occasion.

Kate Coomber:

Yeah, I think we need one downstairs. I'm I downstairs? Yeah, we'll be ordering that one later.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

They're great and I've Googled them, but I can't really find one that I like, because I'd like a fancy one and maybe one that could be hot or cold, and I'll probably get one of those in my old age.

Sam Miklos:

Fantastic. So you were recently awarded an Order of Australia medal. Can you tell us how does it come to be that you get awarded an OAM and what has that meant for you?

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Look, I don't really know how these things happen, but somebody obviously nominates you. And it was interesting. I had a couple of text messages from a variety of people that I've worked with over the years, some 20 years ago, saying that I've worked with over the years, some 20 years ago, saying, oh, I nominated you for that. But I don't know whether they did or not, so I'm not sure how it happens. Monday morning, a few weeks before I woke up and I had an email and I thought, oh, what's this all about? Because I do quite a bit of work for the just voluntary work for the Australia Day Council and I enjoy working with them and, you know, meeting different people, and so I just thought it was from the Australia Day Council.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

And then I looked at it, put my glasses on and had a good read and it said that I had been nominated. And would I accept the nomination? And you know I could click on the link and get more information. And I thought about it for a couple of days because I thought you know, really this is a big responsibility and I'm not sure what responsibility comes with it, but I felt that I really needed to think about whether I was interested or not. And my daughter has an OAM yes, we saw. I rang her and said what do you think? And she said, mum, it doesn't change your life, you know, it's just an honour to have it.

Kate Coomber:

Wonderful recognition.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Yeah, and that was what I thought, and I thought, you know this is, I saw it as a recognition for nurses, because a nurse is recognised, but also for remote nurses and rural nurses, because I've worked many years in rural Queensland and I see it as a recognition sort of all around for nurses and health professionals. Yeah, because there's a lot of great people doing great things and you never hear about them.

Kate Coomber:

So true? Yeah, that's wonderful. We were talking earlier of your journey coming in from Maningrida to Darwin to Brisbane this morning. Paint a picture of Maningrida to Darwin to Brisbane this morning. Paint a picture of Maningrida. You've worked there for nine years. You're talking. It sounds like such a wonderful team down there, but what is it like?

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Paint a picture of the location and what's there. I guess I had been to Maningrida before because I used to have a regional role some years ago and so I had been there before and I knew it was on the beach and I knew it was nice and had a fairly new clinic in those days and had a new age care. So I felt fairly positive about going there. And Charlie Gunnaburra, who's the chair of our board and has worked at the clinic for 48 years I was familiar with him and I went up to have a look and to meet some of the board members and Charlie said to me I remember you. He said you used to have dark hair. Yes, charlie, I did. Anyway, so I took a contract for 12 months. It wasn't long after my husband had died and I really wanted to change. And Ray Matthews, our CEO, and I had coffee one day, as we sometimes did, and he told me he had a position if I was interested, and so I threw my hat in the ring and of course I got it and went there for 12 months and I knew when I took on the role that it probably wouldn't keep me occupied. But Ray also knew that I'd transitioned clinics before and that was what he had on his mind because that was what the board wanted. And so then, after I'd been there for a while, we talked about transition and community control and he progressed that and so that really took up all my time, you know, developing policies and procedures, getting accredited, that sort of thing. So in terms of the job and the role, it's great. You can be whatever you want to be. You can do. When I say do whatever you want to do, you know we're constantly developing the organisation, constantly extending it.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

But Maningrida is a community and I've been to a lot of communities all over Australia. It's a lovely community, lovely people, because of its size. It's one place where you can lead a fairly normal life. When I say you can go out to dinner, there's a lodge there where a lot of contractors work, but you can have a decent feed for $40, a three-course meal for $40. You can. You know there's a coffee shop and we normally we call it the coffee club and we go for coffee on Saturday mornings. Somebody said to me yesterday where is this coffee club? And then there's another takeaway that has good food. There's two supermarkets which have very good food grapefruit and veg reasonably priced. You know you can live there and not want for a thing and not bring a thing in. So it's a good community. But it's also a fairly safe community. I was ramrated in the house I was living at in Palmerston two years ago and I just packed up that day and went out to Maningrida because I felt safer. Yeah, wow. So it's a lovely community.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

The people are just delightful. They're grateful for what you do. You know I go to the shop and people are walking past me saying hello Leslie, hello Leslie. And I think, hmm, who is that? But they're friendly, they love to be, love to be, love to know you and love to have some involvement. And some of the ladies on the board they'll always say show me that photo of your grandkids and I'll show them and they really like that and I think that's important. We've got a very good board, a good functional board, which some organisations don't have, and they're decent people, they're nice people, sort of there for the right reasons. I knew when I was going there I'd worked with Ray before and I knew that he's got integrity.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

And I think that's important when you're working with a CEO who, you know, has integrity. I also knew that he and I had different strengths and would complement each other, and I think that's a bonus as well, but we've got an amazing team. You know we've grown, that he and I had different strengths and would complement each other, and I think that's a bonus as well, but we've got an amazing team. You know we've grown that team and we just have such amazing people. Ray and I are the only two old ones in it, but we have all these wonderful, young, enthusiastic people who, just you know they make your life easy.

Sam Miklos:

Yeah.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

And I think with that, you know they're thinking about progress, they embrace change, that sort of thing, and I think we've developed a really good workplace culture. And when you've got that, and Megan and Becky and I were talking on our way in and we were talking about workplaces and they were talking about here, and I said what you want is a workplace where you can laugh.

Sam Miklos:

Oh, yeah, have a joke and enjoy it.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Because you spend too much time at work, and I think that's something that we all enjoy, and it is that extension, you know, seeing Meg come in today, and everyone's hugging and that's such an extension. It's a family. It's that community feel and you can achieve anything and you can tackle any challenge as well when you've got that sense of community as well. Totally yeah, and I might add, we actually have the nicest sunsets in the world. Oh, is that true, yeah, amazing sunsets.

Sam Miklos:

We'll have to get some photos and, when we launch this episode, have a photo of that?

Lesley Woolf OAM:

yeah, so that we can have one Beautiful sunsets.

Kate Coomber:

And this is about five, six hours from Darwin.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Yeah, it's Well. It's an hour on the plane and there's daily flights which is great.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

You can fly either Air North or fly Tiwi. We have a charter every Monday, out on Monday, back on Friday, and that was really established for our fly-in-fly-out workers. That way, then, instead of having them sitting at the airport for five hours because the plane's delayed, they're there at 8 o'clock in the morning, which is great. They work a full week. Yeah, by car it's probably six or seven hours, some of us take a little bit longer, but it's the most beautiful drive because it's through Kakadu. Yeah, so it's the most beautiful drive because it's through Kakadu. Yeah, so it's absolutely amazing, and I think anybody who hasn't driven that road has missed out. Yeah, it's really. It's very pretty, very nice.

Sam Miklos:

Leslie, you mentioned there about the transition. So Malala Health Service transitioned from a government controlled to a community controlled health service. Can you tell us what that means and the impact that has on the local community?

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Okay, for many years the board and the community had talked about wanting to have more say in the clinic and there has been a shift towards community control in the Northern Territory and particularly in Catherine, where all the services there other than the hospital are community controlled.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

And you know, you know people talk, they go to meetings, they go to different sort of meetings in town where they're meeting other board members from other organisations and they were very keen to transition. But we had to get our act together first, which we did and sort of had everything in place, and then it goes to the um, to a board I'm trying to think of the northern territory aboriginal health board and goes to that and um, they either approve or not approve or make recommendations, and we got the go on for um transition and so some places transition, just transition the whole service. It's a very big clinic, we've got 23 nurses and three doctors and I was going to ask the size of the clinic, so 23 nurses, three doctors, and then we have probably 30 community workers right who work in a variety of arrangements.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

So it's it's a big clinic and just to transition that all at once would have been chaos and very difficult to get the right person to do that. So we decided to transition, I guess in a staged approach. So the first thing we did was took over the morgue, because that was something that was a big passion for the community. They wanted more control of the morgue. They wanted to have more cultural activities, you know, have some dancing, some smoking, all that sort of thing with the morgue. They also wanted freezers so that people could have their bodies of their loved ones in the morgue for a little bit longer, because it cost them a fortune for them to go into town. So we took over the morgue and we've, you know, three years down the track, we've just got the freezers finished Wow, which is great.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

So, and then we took over four programs, which was child health, rheumatic heart disease, outstations, and we got some funding for men's health. So we took those over and that gave us a chance to not only demonstrate that we could do it, but also to develop things in the way that we could, and it was a bonus that we'd been able to secure some additional funding from NACCHO for rheumatic heart disease, because we have the worst incidence of rheumatic heart disease in Australia. So we're able to do that. And then progressively we took over other programs and again that gave us the opportunity to get those programs established and the department had some confidence in us, which is a big thing. But it also gives us the opportunity to apply for funding that the department can't apply for. And then we just we took over the acute section and the workforce, the local staff, and you know that was a bit of a battle because people don't embrace change and some of the NTG staff didn't want to change, but we didn't see that as a problem because they weren't coming across to work for us anyway, and I think sometimes you're better to start with a clean slate.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

The other thing it gave us the opportunity to do was focus on programs, because a lot of clinics it's whatever comes through the door, you just triage it and deal with it Reactively, yeah, and we didn't want that. We wanted a good preventative, proactive approach, and so we were able to do that, implement that, and that's been a real bonus as well. It means that people don't wait as long. All of that. But the other thing it's done is we've been able to identify priorities and new priorities and things like TB. We now know that we have quite a high incidence of TB in the community which really wasn't really being addressed previously. So we've just secured funding for a TB nurse and she'll start in the next couple of in September I think she's starting, and so that's a real step in the right direction.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

We've been able to apply for funding, um for a new, another building, so we'll have a 10 million dollar new building public health building. Um, yeah, there's just, there's different opportunities. And how long has that taken? Um, it's probably taken five years. Yeah, oh, hang on, took about four years before we actually transitioned everything across, and it's been three years, three and a half years, since we transitioned and what it does is gives you know in the health department.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

I would never criticise the health department. I worked for health departments for over 30 years, so I'd never criticise them. But it gives us the opportunity to identify what our priorities are and direct funds and services in that direction, whereas big machines like health, they look at what's the priority for the majority and so it's not targeted particularly at a community, and that's what it gives us the opportunity to do. Gives us the opportunity to get different funding and as well as have some control over our funding. You know, when I worked in public systems, at the end of the financial year, any money you've got, you know you don't get it, yeah, um.

Sam Miklos:

And we, we find.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

we're constantly monitoring our budgets and if it's looking like we're underspent, we're constantly monitoring our budgets, and if it's looking like we're underspent, we're making sure we spend it yeah, spend it absolutely. Increase services, or whatever.

Kate Coomber:

And I think the fact you've had such longevity within the service obviously speaks volumes to its success. And it sounds like a really beautiful team and I know that our recruiters, who have people head up there, just report back such wonderful things. I think if anyone is considering a possible remote journey, this might be a really wonderful place to start, because you are supported if you're a doctor going out wanting to do remote. You've got the support from the other doctors and a team of nursing staff etc.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Absolutely, and they're very good. The other thing we've been fortunate to get is because it being such a big community and we have the opportunity to get, is because it being such a big community and we have the opportunity to respond to community feedback. One thing the community didn't like was if they because we only saw emergencies after hours if they ring up in the middle rang up in the middle of the night, the response would be man and greeter clinic, what's your emergency? And sometimes they just want advice. So we were able to secure some funding under the urgent care clinics and so we now have a 24-hour service and we're open 24 hours and people can come.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

If they've got a sick child and not sure do I give it Panadol, do I not? They can ring up and get advice. If they're going to an outstation first thing in the morning and they've forgotten their tablets, they can come up and get them that sort of thing. So I think it's really enhanced the service and we have permanent staff doing the night shift. We recognise that's tough for someone to do it permanently. So we have a two-week-on, two-week-off arrangement where they come for two weeks and then they go for two weeks, and it's quite an attractive package that we pay and that's working successfully and do you think that this has all had?

Sam Miklos:

can you see an impact on the healthcare outcomes in the community already from this transition?

Lesley Woolf OAM:

I know that we're doing really well with rheumatic heart disease and I've been able to secure a little bit more money for another position through PHN, which is great. But I think the good thing is funding bodies recognise that you're doing things well and so they're happy to fund you and I think that's a real bonus. But certainly the rheumatic heart disease. You can see it in the statistics well and truly. In all the areas our KPIs are very good and probably top of the pops in the Northern Territory, which I think is great. That's fantastic. I think it's something to be proud of. And in saying that, our managers are great.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Jess Getty is just amazing. She's really good. But the staff around her you know our quality and safety officer, our coordinator for ED they're absolutely amazing with what they do and as well as that, we've had some continuity of doctors and I think that makes a big difference as well, and they're committed. You know one of them was with us for five years. She now works remotely from the sunshine coast, so she they know all the community, they know the people we were going to ask you about the reputation, but I thought you've answered yeah and I guess, talking about the, the staff that you do have, what makes a great person coming to malala.

Kate Coomber:

You know what's? I imagine it sometimes is challenging to get people to go to the remote places. In the first instance. Perhaps and it sounds like you've got a really great reputation up there You're attracting a great team, yeah, but you must have a. Do you have a bit of a strategy in place for how to attract?

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Look, I think there's a couple of things. We're pretty flexible and we, like you know, we like to make people feel wanted. But with people either like it or they don't, and staff will come because there's not a lot of on-call now with the after-hours nurses, and so people will come and they'll say, oh, I need more call on this so they won't come back, and that's fine. We accept that. There's horses for courses, basically. Some come and they've only ever worked in a tiny little clinic and they're totally blown away by the size of the clinic and very often they don't come back and we acknowledge that and we make sure we tell them what it's going to be like. So I guess things that they seem to enjoy. We interview everybody who comes to us and I mean it's onerous and time-consuming, but we interview everybody who comes to us and I mean it's onerous and time consuming, but we so important we interview everybody and you can tell from that first conversation whether it's going to go well or not.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

And these are for short-term contracts yeah we don't take anybody for less than six weeks, preferably eight, because that gives them the opportunity to have the best day and the worst day, basically, and know what it's all about and settle into the community as well. So we do that, but we also. It's a very structured approach and I think some people people really enjoy that. They'll say this is so organised and I think that's a bonus as well. They feel as though. I think it gives them confidence that we know what we're doing.

Sam Miklos:

Yeah, for someone new to have that confidence would help.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Yeah, it does, and yeah, so I think they're things that probably make it good, but I think you've just got to be nice to people.

Kate Coomber:

Yeah, create a culture, treat them well, and what's the accommodation like for someone coming through?

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Yeah, the nursing accommodation is pretty good. We've got a mixture of three, two and one bedroom units. Some of the three bedroom units the staff share, but we try not to have people from the same program or people who we don't have, try not to have people sharing for six or eight weeks. We try to make it like a bit of a turnover and we try to match people. You know we'll meet somebody and we'll think, yeah, they'd be okay in that house and try and match them, but predominantly they're on their own. The accommodation we've got four units that are on the. We call them seaside. They're on the seaside, yeah, lovely, and they get the most amazing views and sunsets as well, and so of course, those staff are long term.

Sam Miklos:

Yeah they are, they're not leaving, they're not going anywhere?

Lesley Woolf OAM:

No, so yeah, we've got those and we've, you know, the accommodation. We try to make sure it's good, Like a guy come to me yesterday and said my vacuum cleaner doesn't work it's probably a Kmart number and I said I'll get you a new one. So on Monday morning there'll be a vacuum cleaner on the plane going out for him so that then he can do it. So I think you've got to be responsive as well. The other thing we do and this is the way Jess practices and I think it's absolutely amazing we have a lot of health promotion sort of community health activities. They're community-wide things like vaccination drives, so people have the opportunity to do overtime, go out after work, give vaccinations to the community, because that's when you get the best response. And we'll do that for a week.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

When the breast screening bus came to Maningrida, we had Women's Health Week and so we had an additional nurse and she sort of coordinated it and we rounded up all the women who were eligible and they had health checks. They got a nice bag, they got a T-shirt, that sort of thing, and they got a bra bag, and there was a bag of bras that the bus had brought out with them and girls could rummage through and get themselves a couple of bras, which is really nice. It's lovely, so special. Yeah, we have two skin weeks a year healthy skin weeks so everybody in the community gets the opportunity to have their skin checked and in terms of scabies and also have some just discussion about avoiding scabies, things like that.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

The other thing that we've worked really hard to get and have been able to maintain is Orange Sky, and that was a few years ago. We brought that in and it's been great. We don't use volunteers. We pay our workers to run it, and the community love that as well. So you know there's a few different little things. It and the community love that as well. So you know there's a few different little things. We've got our visiting dietitian and physio and they do a lot of community work and the physio does exercise classes at aged care, takes the oldies down to the pool, all that, and they're things that make the community happy, but they're also so good for their health.

Kate Coomber:

Their health? Yeah, engaging them. You sound very innovative in the work that you're doing. Look, it's meeting, Not just what's in front of you.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Totally, totally, yeah, and the staff want to be involved in those things. It's an opportunity for a bit of overtime, but they love to get out into the community and make an impact too in those roles. Yeah, they really enjoy it.

Sam Miklos:

I yeah, they really enjoy it. I wanted to understand, you know, if we've got healthcare professionals listening to this podcast and they've been Gold Coast based, what do they need to know about Indigenous health, remote health, working in those roles? Because they often don't understand. No, they don't, and especially if they're an English nurse who's come out to Australia, they're sort of like what is that? How would you describe that?

Lesley Woolf OAM:

The English nurses actually usually do very well, they do well.

Sam Miklos:

Yes, make more English nurses, because they want an adventure.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

The Irish are very good too, but I guess you know you get some people and I don't want to sound blunt, but you get some people who've never seen an Aboriginal person. Yeah, they have no idea of what it's like. So I always think it's good if they do their research for a start. Where would they do that?

Sam Miklos:

research Online.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Just research Aboriginal communities and you know, read about them. Read about how they've. You know different things they've done, how they developed. Some were church-based, mission-based, others just came together. You know, read about those, others just came together. You know, read about those things. Get some history.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

I think that always helps. The other thing I think it's good, you know, if they can function autonomously. They have to be able to function autonomously and that doesn't happen overnight. You get some new grads who can just run and do it very, very well, but you get people who've been a nurse for 50 years who can't function autonomously because they've always had the security of that hospital bed or the doctor there for them. So I guess they've got to be able to function fairly autonomously and be looking for a bit of an adventure and I think and prepared to have a go. Yeah, you know sort of be enthusiastic about it.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

And then, in terms of leading up to becoming a remote area nurse, we have a fairly strict credentialing process, and probably more so than most, because we get people who've come to us who've been working remote for a few years, but they have no, they haven't done any preparation. So we like them to have done a REC, a remote emergency course, a MEC, if they're not a few years. But they haven't done any preparation. So we like them to have done a regular remote emergency course, a MEC if they're not a midwife. We like them to have studied the rheumatic heart disease modules and the rheumatic heart disease modules are free online have be immunisation endorsed. That's probably good for a start and if they've done those things they've got a fair idea of you know how to do things and I think that makes a difference. We don't very often take new to remote people. We like them to have experience and yet it's probably a good clinic to develop people.

Sam Miklos:

I was thinking that it's probably the best place to have?

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Yeah, it is, it's so busy and people get blown away by it. But in saying that, we are looking at developing a grant program for remote area nurses and one of the reasons for that is we've had a few very good enrolled nurses work for us who are studying nursing and we don't want them to go anywhere else, so we really want to be able to keep them. So we're working on developing a grad program and that will support new graduates and they'd probably be ones we'd probably only take one or two at a time and they would be grads that we knew or had had experience with them, because there's a lot of good enrolled nurses who are studying nursing, who have worked remote and do it very, very well. So that's probably, but it looks so much of its attitude.

Sam Miklos:

Yes, and what's their day look like? You know often people talk about in these remote clinics that it's so much more generalist, the skill set that they require.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Yeah, it depends on where they're working. For instance, with most of the teams they have a meeting in the morning, we have our team meeting, but then they have their own little meeting and talk about you know what they're going to do that day. The chronic team, for instance, that usually consists of three nurses and a doctor and they pull their recalls and they sit down and talk about them. Okay, who do we have to follow up today and prioritise things? Someone does the urgent, someone does the you know the routine recalls, and somebody else might do what comes through the door and try and target them. So you know, there's a variety of things that sort of set the pace for the day In saying that you know we might have no staff or we might have all new staff and it doesn't go to plan, but that's basically the way we like it to be, and that includes your driver, your community worker as well.

Sam Miklos:

So you said it felt like you had a brain transplant. I hope that's correctly quoted. When you created the first health service in Catherine, what happened in Catherine Look?

Lesley Woolf OAM:

I'd been a director of nursing for many years and had big regional responsibilities. I'd managed remote health in the centre. I then, as a favour to the regional director, I went to Catherine to manage the hospital and it was still a region to manage that for six months because the manager of the day was going on leave. And then I was heading back to Queensland because my husband was in Queensland and the Commonwealth asked me would I go to Sunrise and help them recruit to a position which would facilitate the coordinated care trial, which was basically transitioning the services, and I said, yeah, I'll do that for three months, but only if I can have a FIFO arrangement where I can spend some time working from home, and that was agreed to. So I did that and then after three months or six months I went to the CEO and I said none of these applicants, none of them can do the job. And he said, well, what will it take to keep you? And I said I'd love to stay, but my husband wants me to be there Be home.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Anyway, I said, if I can continue this arrangement, I'm sure he'd be agreeable. And so he agreed, and I did that for nearly four years and we just gradually transitioned the clinics. But when we were doing that in terms of and I'd managed remote community clinics for years and years because my role was regional and I used to visit and you know, think I knew what was going on, but I didn't really know and all of a sudden we were looking at population health and different cohorts of clients and I was thinking, you know, we can actually make a difference. And so that was when I started thinking this is what we can do. And I think that you know that was. It was a life-changing moment, I guess.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

And the fact that the accountant would say to me Leslie, you've got this much money unspent. What would you like to spend it on? Well, I think we need a social worker. So we bring in a social worker. You know things that you can see you need and all of a sudden you can create positions that are needed. And I've never had that luxury in the public system, because that's just not the way it works. Yeah, so, yeah, that would have felt so different.

Kate Coomber:

Yeah, it did so you've been nursing and in health care a long time. I'd love to hear about um. You've talked about managing clinics and remote for a very, very long time. Where did it all start? Were you were you always in remote, I guess? Where were you based originally? How did you get into it?

Sam Miklos:

You had three kids as well, along the way and you just mentioned that you were flying in and out at home. So how did you?

Lesley Woolf OAM:

do all of this. Look, I started my training in 1970 in Cairns as a hospital-based nurse. When I first left school I was always going to be a schoolteacher. And then I was going to a dance one night and there was a dentist there who was our dentist and he said to my twin sister and I I've got a job, if either of you are interested, Laurie and I sort of, you know, poked each other Do you want it? No, do you want it? Anyway, I said no, I'd love it, and so I took it. I started on the Monday. Did you know what it was? I had no idea. I mean, we go to the dentist, we sort of see what the dental nurse does. So I did that and I was nearly 16. I was very young, nearly 16. But girls in those days you left school in year 10 or before, if there was a reason to leave. You were either a public servant you worked at the electricity board, a hairdresser, a nurse, or you were a nun.

Kate Coomber:

You know, there weren't many other options Anyway.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

so I thought this is great, I'll do this. So I did, and then I used to go up to the theatres and assist the dentists with general anaesthetics and things and I'd think, wow, this is fun. So then I decided that I would become a nurse, but I thought I would do it in the Navy. I thought I'd love to join the um, the services, and my father just wouldn't have anything to do with it. So I became a nurse in the hospital, which was great and I absolutely loved it from day one. There wasn't a day there's. My husband always said get a job you love and you'll never work and I don't think I've ever worked in my life yeah, I think we're so blessed.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

So I did that. I trained in Cairns and then I met my husband during my third year and for a variety of reasons, we got married very quickly, because our car caught on fire and he had to stay in Matt Iser and I went to Cairns and so we just decided we'd get married.

Sam Miklos:

So we got married about six weeks later.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

We'd known each other for six weeks, no, six months.

Sam Miklos:

But the decision was a six-week decision.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

My mother kept saying to me you're not pregnant. No, I'm not. The car caught fire Anyway. So I finished my time. I'd done all my training. I finished my time in Mount Isa and actually graduated from Mount Isa because he was a Mount Isa man and I stayed there for a couple of years and then went back to Cairns and did my mid and then went back to Mount Isa and ran the emergency department there for some years. Then I left and went back to Cairns and was working around public and private and then the then director of nursing of the day she rang me and said I've resigned, do you want my job? And I said, oh, I was 36. I said, oh, yeah.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

And she said just write them a letter. So I did. Next thing I'm on a plane going out for an interview. Next thing I'm going out for an interview again. And I got the job and I think I spent the first two years trying to work out what to do. I was probably totally out of my depth and I recall the first day my secretary saying to me so-and-so is coming to see you and I said what the hell am I going to do with her? I really didn't. You know, you think you know what to do, but you really don't. It gives you an enormous respect for that person in the chair previously because all of a sudden you're that person. So I was there for nearly 12 years and probably the last two years I was burned out and didn't do as well as I probably should have, but then our kids had all left home. So the kids all grew up in Mount Isa. All grew up in Mount Isa.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

All grew up in Mount Isa and the kids had all left home, so we decided to go to the Northern Territory. But during that 12 years the one thing I'm always proud of is the fact that I believe I created enormous opportunity for nurses. And also I always say I was a cheerleader for nurses. I battled to get them benefits, battled to get them incentives and even things like we were the last hospital in Queensland to run the enrolled nurse course hospital-based enrolled nurse course and during that time we put through a lot of 50 and 60-year-olds who'd always wanted to be a nurse their whole life and we put them through the enrolled nurse training.

Kate Coomber:

How?

Lesley Woolf OAM:

amazing is that? Yeah, the other thing we did we had a crazy gastroenterologist. We all thought he was crazy, but he turned out to be very bright and he couldn't always get a nurse in theatre. He rang me one day and he said Mrs Wolfe, which he always called me, I want to train nurses in Mount Isa. And I said you, how would you train nurses? He said no, I'm writing to every university to try and get nurses trained in Mount Isa Indigenous nurses. I thought, oh, good luck with that. Anyway, it happened and we had the Commonwealth fly up. Deakin University came up and we ran the Deakin University Bachelor of Nursing from Mount Isa and that was an enormous achievement yeah.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Put and University Bachelor of Nursing from Mount Isa and that was an enormous achievement. Yeah, Put through two cohorts of Indigenous nurses and with each course we had one non-Aboriginal person. There's some fabulous, high-powered nurses now who went through that course and we'll still say you know, I was lucky enough to get into that course and so that was great. But they really needed a lot of support because they couldn't afford to just be students. So we employed them all as assistants in nursing or enrolled nurses if they're enrolled nurses gave them free accommodation in the nurses' quarters and really tried to look after them and got them through, which was great, and that gave I guess that gave the opportunity for James Cook to see that it could happen there, and that was when James Cook started training nurses in Mount Isa and almost every enrolled nurse that we put through the enrolled nurse course is now a registered nurse through James Cook, having trained on home ground, which is great.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

So that you know to me that you know, when I reflect on the things that I've done, they're the things that give me the most satisfaction. They give me enormous satisfaction because a couple of months after I left, the regional director rang me and he said guess what? I said what he said the nurses are going to get incentives If they live in Mount Isa. They're going to get incentives. And that was a whole new ballgame. All of a sudden you could get people to work there and stay. So it was a whole new ballgame. And I thought you know. He said to me you worked for 10 years for that and I thought at least you recognise it.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

But it was just, you know, to me. That gave me enormous satisfaction. So then we went to Alice Springs, yeah, and initially I was in an interesting position. I was an executive director of nursing of the region. But it was really just a, you know, can we do this sort of job and policy job? And not busy enough for me. So I then went and managed remote health for a while and then I went over to be the executive director of nursing at the hospital, which I loved. Yeah, I did that for two years.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

But my husband was in Queensland and I kept thinking you know, I really need to be married again and go back and spend some time with him, which I always tried to do, but that was how my journey to Catherine happened.

Sam Miklos:

So your three kids are all grown up now and they're all incredibly successful in their own right. Your daughter's also received I know I missed that earlier. Your two sons are rugby league coaches. I think I'd said to you that my cousin plays for Christian and the Dolphins and I actually asked him how he would describe Christian and he said the best things about Christian are his integrity, trustworthiness, support for the team and, of course, his coaching ability. He said that the care Christian has for the team as people, not just players, is what makes him such an incredibly good coach, and he said they really feel that Christian wants the player, their family and their lifestyle to be one that epitomizes strong values. It's lovely, beautiful words we were talking about. As a mother with these three children who've done all these wonderful things, what are the values that you've instilled in them? Like, interestingly, when we've mentioned to the staff about today talking to you, they've all said how has she raised all these incredible humans? What are the tips you would?

Kate Coomber:

give so many parents here going. How do we do?

Lesley Woolf OAM:

that Breastfed them until they were almost at school, right.

Sam Miklos:

Oh God, we missed the boat there.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

No, look, they had an amazing father who was prepared to do anything for them, which was great, and I worked night duty when the kids were little, when the boys were little, and Rob would always get up to them at night and you know I'd sleep through it If I was there. I'd sleep through it, and so I think it's not about me. It's actually about a family You've got to have good family values. You've got to make sure they're busy all the time. They're all incredibly occupied with sport. They all did well at school.

Sam Miklos:

Kate not so well, but the boys did well, did they stay in Mount Isa for school or go away to board?

Lesley Woolf OAM:

We went back to Mount Isa when Katie was in grade one, ben was in grade five and Christian was in grade nine. They all were schooled there, except Christian went to boarding school for two years. He loved it. But probably they have a bit too much freedom at boarding school, particularly in the higher grades. Not too much freedom, but I think they take too much too much freedom and they make sure they've, you know, got plenty of outside activities. Yeah, but they they were all good kids, you know, and I think that's a bonus as well, and they were respectful. They were always. They always grew up with respect and respect for family and respect for others, and even now you know they're very respectful. But I think also, you know people knock Mount Isa and knock country towns. But I think they're great because you know who their friends are. You know their friends' parents. They may drink underage but you know that they're at a house where they're being supervised, and I think that's a big thing.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

And even in sport it's not hard to play half a dozen sports because everything's within walking distance and we lived on the hospital campus, which was in the middle of town, and so you know they can get to everything that they want to get to. It didn't stop them coming home at you know four o'clock in the morning after night, clubbing and drinking any bit of alcohol.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

That was in the house and having a party, but that's okay. The doctors that lived around us would complain, but generally, you know they had a good, they had a great life there and I think it grounds them. They're good basic people and I think you know, and all their friends that they grew up with are all just amazing people. Christian married a girl from Mount Isa who you know. Her family are an amazing family with six kids and all of whom have done well and I think that you know those values that you get in a country town like that stay with you for life. Yes, and I think that's so good.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

And in terms of raising three kids, I didn't have a total of six months of work to have my kids. All three of them Went back to work when they were only a couple of weeks old because there was never enough staff. Yes, and I think you do that in country towns as well, and I think they probably you know they had to be resilient, they had to be independent because they had to fend for themselves to a great extent. I always had good neighbours, which was a bonus, and in the early days, their other grandparents lived in Mount Isa, which was great, and they were good, hardworking people. I think when you've got those qualities in the broader family, it makes a big difference. So, yeah, I think it's not about me with the kids, the one thing that I'm very proud of, not so much about their achievements, but they're all decent people.

Kate Coomber:

Yeah, I was just going to say the way that the team have obviously spoken about him is the way that you can see that you encourage that within your staff and the way that you look at everything. How do we make their life better? How do we make sure that?

Lesley Woolf OAM:

they're okay and that clearly trickles down.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Yeah, totally. And even with the nurses. You know, when we took over the clinic we talked about nurses and how hard they do it. You know, often they're there 24 hours for different things and I can remember in a meeting I said to Ray we've got to do something about this, we've got to be competitive and we've got to look after them. And so we introduced a bonus for them, a $10,000 bonus. If they're our staff and they stay for 12 months and that includes if they're recruited through an agency and become our staff member, they get the $10,000. We also give people a travel bonus $4,000 in travel. So you know, if someone wants to go overseas, save it up and go overseas, they can pay for their overseas trip. Yeah, and that sort of thing works out well. We give them lunch.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

have a nice lunch every second Thursday, the off-pay week, and people say, is it lunch this week? I say no, you get paid this week.

Kate Coomber:

You have your choice pay or lunch and that works well.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

That's just a bit of compensation for their hard work and the fact that they generate Medicare, a lot of Medicare. We want to recognise that.

Sam Miklos:

Yeah, that's so true. We talk a lot about that in here is how do we make sure that all of these health professionals you know get so many more bonuses and benefits? And we've looked at so many different programs, especially with our agency, locums, to make sure that they are well rewarded because they work so hard.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

They do, yeah, and I think you're one agency that gives them some support with education, and that's a big thing, um, because otherwise they have to pay for all their own education and that's pretty costly.

Sam Miklos:

It's very expensive for them. Yes, it's all of those things we're doing a lot at the moment around education to see how else we can contribute, to just take the pressure off for them as well well, they've got to be credentialed when they come remote, and often to be credentialed costs you a fair amount of money.

Kate Coomber:

Yeah, and then if they want those extra skills, if they want to go more remote and they need to add on those extra certificates, they need your support sometimes, yeah, they do, yeah, yeah, totally, and some people just aren't prepared to do it. Yeah, so what keeps you so passionate still now?

Lesley Woolf OAM:

I don't know. You know, I was talking to Wayne Bennett a few weeks ago and just asked him how he was, because he and I are around the same age, and asked him how he was going. And he said, you know, we made a bit of small talk and he said to me, I'm just in awe of the work you're doing. And I said, yeah, I think about retiring. And then I think, well, I've still got the fire in my belly, I'll keep working. And he said you need to read my book, which is Don't Die With the Music In you. I'm actually reading it now and it's good, it's very good, but it's true, while you've still got the fire in your belly, and I can see, I almost get excited, I can see there's so much needs to be done, and you know, there's talk about us getting funding for a real unit.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Well, you know, really, I've got to stay until that's finished. We're getting our new 10 million dollar building. Yeah, you want to see that, absolutely. I'm in the process of. I've recently um been successful with a couple of grants for aged care, because aged care is a growth industry and we've got 10 beds, 10 residential beds and then we have about 70 community clients. All those community clients are going to need somewhere to live.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

But as well as that, there's about 500 people over 50, indigenous people over 50 in the community, so you've got to plan ahead. So I'm in the process of doing another funding submission for more beds and I think you know that sort of thing, you want to see it through and I get excited about it.

Sam Miklos:

It's like you're still on the edge of the same things to come and all these ideas and little things you can tweak and change.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Yeah, yeah, and I think you know, while you've still got that passion, but I'd say probably in the next year or so I'll probably do more work from Cairns. I'll move to Cairns and maybe do a couple of weeks at home and then do a month or so in Maningrida, because when I'm away from it I miss it, I think.

Kate Coomber:

Oh, God, what are they doing now? There's Cairns, where you've still got some family and friends.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

All my siblings are there my sisters and my brother?

Sam Miklos:

What did your twin sister end up doing? She didn't take the nursing role. My siblings are there.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

My sisters and my brother. What did your twin sister end up doing? She didn't take the nursing role. She was a public servant initially and then, once she had kids, she worked in pubs and ran pubs. Then she owned pubs and then in her 50s she did a social work degree and she is very high up in community corrections in Cairns and you know managers she's an area manager for Far North Queensland and so we sort of went both in the same direction. Yeah, and so she still works full time.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

And we often laugh about different things, and she was texting me the other day about what she was doing and I said, oh, I can beat that and I was doing something equally as crazy. So I think we're both lucky that we've still got health good health and also lucky that our brains still function.

Sam Miklos:

Yeah.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

And I said to the girls at work if you think I'm losing my marbles, just let me know. And yet you know they'll say to me do you remember? Yep, I remember, I'll quote it. Yeah, do you remember? Yep, I remember, I'll quote it, because it sort of gets tattooed in your brain and I guess, because Ray and I have grown the organisation to a great extent, you've got all that historical knowledge which other people don't have, and I think that's a bonus as well and you don't want to lose that. Ray and I will probably both retire around the same time but hopefully we'll have developed good people.

Sam Miklos:

Definitely a good succession plan.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Yeah, yeah, so hopefully we'll have developed others, but I think, because he's been there 11 years and I've been there nine years and that's, you know, that's amazing for an Aboriginal organisation.

Sam Miklos:

Yeah, I was just going to say like that tenure is incredible and rare.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Absolutely. And Jess has been there. She's four years. And then Felicity, who runs community wellness, she's been there probably maybe six years. She's been here a long time. And when you've got that continuity, gee, it makes it easy.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

Yeah, you can actually go places and get some momentum, yeah yeah, it makes such a difference and they're easy to work with. You know them well Eileen, our HR manager. She's been in the community for as long as me, hasn't always worked for us. She has worked for us for about six years, but you know, to me that's gold to have that continuity.

Kate Coomber:

Well, look, from every episode, CMR are donating $500 to a charity of our guest's choice. Yeah, where can that money go for you?

Sam Miklos:

Or is there something at the health service? That that money would go to? That would make a difference. I'm not sure I know. When Jess had spoke to the team, she talked about the need for washing machines and the team were like, set them a washing machine. Is there any? Could that money be used at the service?

Lesley Woolf OAM:

It could be for one of our healthy skin weeks or something like that, because we always apply for grants for that. But you know, there's little things and we have raffles for people. You know, if they participate, we put their name in a hut and pull it out. You know, there's a dear, dear old lady who lives across the road from me. There's three generations, four generations live there Lovely, lovely people. They work so hard in the yard and that sort of thing, and last week she won a washing machine, a lawnmower and a mattress with the healthy skin week. There were a lot of people there but I thought that is absolutely gold because no one's more deserving. So, yeah, you know something that could benefit the health center I think would be great.

Sam Miklos:

Yeah, we'd be happy to send that money that way. Really good, yeah, yep. Thank you so much, lesley. We're so glad that we had a tech fault last time.

Lesley Woolf OAM:

We had to actually get you into Brisbane.

Sam Miklos:

It has just been so nice to sit across from you and just hear you speak. You have done such incredible things in your career, but most definitely in Maningrida, and how fortunate all of those people are to have you up there and thank you. You've been, you're such an inspiration and we've loved talking to you today. Thank you, it's been great. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to share, rate and review. This allows us to reach more people and share more incredible stories. Click the follow or subscribe button to ensure you never miss an episode.

People on this episode

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Sam Miklos

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Kate Coomber

Co-host