It Takes Heart
It Takes Heart is an unmissable podcast where healthcare workers share their honest and unique experiences from Australia’s frontline.
Discover real-life stories of passion and purpose, insight and inspiration from people on the inside and tales that are equal parts heart-warming, heart-wrenching and hilarious. It Takes Heart is co-hosted by cmr | Cornerstone Medical Recruitment CEO Samantha Miklos and Head of Talent and Employer Branding Kate Coomber.
It Takes Heart
Where the System Fails, Dr Juergen Landmann Shows Up
What drives a doctor to leave the safety of private practice and instead offer care inside prisons and homeless shelters? For Dr Juergen Landmann, it all started with a simple mindset: “Why not?” In this powerful conversation, Juergen shares how burnout led him to rethink the way he worked and opened the door to a more energising, purpose-led path.
Now splitting his time between general practice, correctional facilities, and Emmanuel City Mission, Juergen’s work is rooted in connection, trust, and consistency. He speaks openly about the realities of working with people who’ve experienced deep stigma - those sleeping rough, cycling in and out of prison, or simply falling through the cracks of traditional care. With each story, he shows how showing up, again and again, can create lasting change.
This episode is for you if you’ve ever wondered what it means to do work that truly matters, if you’re curious about alternative ways to practise medicine, or if you’re passionate about reaching the people who need care most.
It Takes Heart is hosted by cmr CEO Sam Miklos, alongside Head of Talent and Employer Branding, Kate Coomber.
We Care; Music by Waveney Yasso
More about Juergen's Organisations of Choice, Emmanuel City Mission
Emmanuel City Mission is a daytime sanctuary in South Brisbane that provides a safe, welcoming space for people experiencing homelessness. Open seven days a week, the mission offers meals, facilities, and genuine connection to those doing it tough.
You can find out more about the Vinnies CEO Sleepout here.
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Follow @ittakesheartpodcast on Instagram, @cmr | Cornerstone Medical Recruitment on Linked In, @cornerstonemedicalrec on TikTok and @CornerstoneMedicalRecruitment on Facebook.
There's a cost to caring, especially when you're constantly faced with the rawest parts of humanity, but for some, that cost is also what gives their work meaning I pretend that I completely switch off, but I don't.
Dr Juergen Landmann:Even though I'm dealing with the most traumatic things, often especially on the streets of South Brisbane, and they're really tough days and people are revealing to me things, you know, shocking things, which I often haven't told another soul. I leave that place energised because you know that your little interventions you haven't fixed problems, that you've made a difference.
Sam Miklos:This is a conversation about burnout boundaries and the quiet power of showing up over and over again, even when no one else does.
Kate Coomber:If you want to continue to hear about real people making an impact, then hit follow or subscribe. It's the best way to support the show and make sure that you never miss an episode.
Sam Miklos:Today we're super excited to have Dr Juergen Landmann with us. He's a local GP who is proof that choosing a career in general practice can really open up some wonderful opportunities. Juergen currently holds several roles he's a community GP, a doctor for the homeless, and also works in a correctional facility and in COVID he even set up a home clinic to give jabs to frontline healthcare workers. Fun fact, or maybe an interesting fact, is that Juergen has treated both Kate and my families at various times over the last few years. We've got loads to talk about, but none of that is going to be our medical history. We're just going to keep it.
Sam Miklos:We're going to talk about you, so welcome today, Juergen, to it Takes Heart.
Dr Juergen Landmann:Oh, thanks very much, guys, for joining us Welcome.
Sam Miklos:So this is a big role flip for us, because usually we would be sitting in a clinic with a whole bunch of kids on our lap different to be not looking like this. I'm I'm the parent that keeps all of the health care things for the weekend and then go and find an appointment so by then.
Sam Miklos:It's a bit too far gone usually. But anyway, I've always said that whenever we go and see you, you're always talking about all of the different roles that you hold. You always kind of drop in a bit about Emmanuel City a or Mission at at the prisons or out at the university, but we've never actually we don't want to talk about all of these opportunities. And today came with Kate and I talking about the CEO sleepout that I'll be doing this year. So before we get into all of that, tell us about you, like where did you grow up and did you always want to be a GP?
Dr Juergen Landmann:Yeah, look, I suppose the concept of being a doctor and being a GP was always there, but I never really thought too much about it. I grew up in Warwick, which is a rural area. Yeah, no, my dad was a schoolteacher so we went out to Warwick and I'd been my primary schooling there before moving back. So I always had a bit of an interest in the rural settings and then came back to Brisbane. I always wanted to do medicine, but I enjoyed high school a little bit too much.
Sam Miklos:So I ended up.
Dr Juergen Landmann:Got into university, ended up, but went more down the life science route and did all sorts of things and effectively had a gap decade.
Kate Coomber:Gap decade.
Dr Juergen Landmann:Enjoyed every part of it and don't regret any of it, but then sort of went into. Always was sort of attracted to that sort of working with people and medicine. So general practice is the logical profession for me. What I love about general practice is just the absolute flexibility to do what you want where you want. And I still remember one of my mentors telling me. He said, jorgen, you know what you need to do to specialise in general practice. And I said what's that? He says you need a good sign writer. And he says call yourself whatever you like, do whatever you want. And you know what other profession does that. And you know it's just so. Yeah, so that's where I grew up.
Sam Miklos:And as a general practice.
Dr Juergen Landmann:So once you qualified, did you just stay initially in clinics? Yeah, so once I qualified so I did my medical degree. I did my residency years down in Logan and I was actually lucky there was a general practice in and I just started the GP training and there was a practice in Inala, working with a lot of refugee health and a lot of the very poor there, and I learned so much in that year and just passionate doctors and just the value of a good mentor. So I did that. Then I went and worked over in. I finished my residency years down in Rochedale and my registrar years as a GP registrar and then I started working in Carindale.
Kate Coomber:That must be where I met you, yeah.
Dr Juergen Landmann:I met you, yeah, and look and whilst it's, whilst you know, I've always had a passion for doing something, you know, and sort of helping other people, the vulnerable communities. Ultimately, mortgages come along as well, so so I was working busy in private billing land. Do I insult you guys by saying looking after the white wealthy in Warwick?
Sam Miklos:You kind of have, so just go worried but uh, but yeah.
Dr Juergen Landmann:So, look, I was doing that and along came covid, which was, um, you know, we were all. We didn't know what to expect. It was busy, busy, and you know we thought we're gonna sort of close down. But medicine ended up being busier than ever and um, so I was working 14 hour days, starting at five in the morning doing a couple of hours of vaccines before consulting at 8. And I just burnt out and I just thought, no, this is. And I remember ringing my boss and he was really good and I just said, look, mate, I just can't do this.
Dr Juergen Landmann:And he says look, you know you enjoy your weekends and I've always enjoyed working my weekends, you know. And he says why don't you just do your weekends? You can have whatever you want and just take a break, think what you want to do. So I was really lucky to have a boss, which sort of was good, yeah exactly.
Dr Juergen Landmann:And so yeah, so that's when I sort of was taking a break, and then because I had done a vaccine clinic which I like, let's ask about first, before we get on to that, the clinic in your backyard.
Sam Miklos:It sounds really bad. A backyard clinic. How did that come about? Is that easy to do. Well it's like.
Kate Coomber:Can you just do that? Can you do it? Is it? You did it.
Sam Miklos:Yeah.
Dr Juergen Landmann:Yeah. So look, I suppose what I've always been interested in is everyone always tells you why you can't do something.
Dr Juergen Landmann:Yes, and so sometimes so I always throw it back to them and say, well, why can't I do it, why can't we just do this? And and so what happened? It was the beginning of COVID, you know, and everyone was scared. Nobody knew what to know, what was going to happen. A lot of doctors were there, working long hours, and you know, and then they wanted to protect their own children, so and they were sort of saying, well, how do we get the flu vaccines out?
Sam Miklos:Because you know, even though it was COVID you think well, you know you've got.
Dr Juergen Landmann:If you've got COVID and flu, what's that going to do?
Kate Coomber:And if you think back to 2020, like people were actually staying away from their families, weren't they? If you're in the medical profession, I family. In hindsight. I think what were we thinking? It feels hard to remember that now, doesn't it? You don't know what's going to happen.
Dr Juergen Landmann:So what I thought was well, I've been doing flu vaccine clinics in schools for ages so I thought, well, I'll just buy a whole heap of vaccines in and just do it from the backyard. So I put it out on this group it's actually Brisbane Medical Mums. On the token, father there and there's about 1,000 doctor parents there and yeah.
Dr Juergen Landmann:So we just sort of said look, you know, I'm just doing this in my backyard. If you want to come and get one, I'll just do that. Just bulk bill the consult, pay for the vaccine out of that. And there was a donation box we were collecting for a charity over in the Philippines, so yeah, so basically they all came and it was a huge success. Didn't think it would be successful. I think we did around about over three days. I did about 1,000 vaccines. Yeah, wow and yeah. So I was just in the backyard and yeah working honestly.
Sam Miklos:You just did that for three days yeah, it was three different days and yeah, I still do those vaccine clinics so it's always my.
Dr Juergen Landmann:You know the medical mums. It's usually Anzac Day afternoon and you know it's a social thing. Now you know they can go anywhere. But it's also good for the kids. They sometimes go. They're not sort of, you know, it's not sitting in line in a doctor's surgery or a pharmacy to get it Feeling nervous and all of those things that come with it.
Kate Coomber:So they just go.
Dr Juergen Landmann:Get a vaccine, go have a lollipop chat with all the friends. So it's a model which started and it just worked.
Sam Miklos:So that's what we continued.
Sam Miklos:So now let's talk about Emmanuel City Mission, because this year I'm doing the CEO Sleepo ut and I know it's a token in some ways. You know we're sleeping out for one night, but you know we talk a lot here about how we can create great health care outcomes, you know, for these communities we're supporting at Cornerstone. But how can you even prioritise health when you're homeless? Homeless and we talked a lot about well, could we have someone that we could speak to today about what? What actually is the impact of, I guess, the health care options available for someone who's homeless? What's the work that you do at Emmanuel City Mission? What do they do?
Dr Juergen Landmann:Yeah, so Emmanuel City Mission is Brisbane's biggest homeless drop-in centre. Basically it started out with another guy, just a guy, who said, oh look, you know're a church. I'm not part of their church. But they just sort of said, look, rather than us being, you know, here on a Sunday and closed up for the rest of the time and there's people on the streets, why don't we just open our doors and welcome them in? And it started a number of years ago with a barbecue and they just used to do a few sausages and then it just grew and grew and you know it works outside of any government funding because they like well, not that they would say no to money, but they're conscious that they can do what they want and support their people without any strings attached.
Dr Juergen Landmann:So they basically it's an open living room. You know people walk in there. They open from, I think, 7 till 3. You walk in. You can have from, I think, 7 till 3. You walk in. You can have a coffee, proper Brewster coffee. There's a wonderful roastery in Moorooka which donates the beans and they have a coffee. There's a hot lunch served at 12 o'clock. But, more to the point, it's just somewhere they can get off the streets. It's sanctuary for them. They maintain a very high level of behaviour.
Kate Coomber:There's no bad language, they can't come intoxicated or anything else, it's a safe place for them to be.
Dr Juergen Landmann:It's a safe place and the visitors respect those rules and if there's ever a bit of an altercation or someone, there's no security or anything. But if there's everyone getting a bit sort of wryly, the other visitors escort them out. Because what happens if? They'll actually just close the centre if it's a problem, and then you've inconvenienced 150 streeties.
Sam Miklos:Yeah, I was just going to say how many people would go through every day.
Dr Juergen Landmann:Well, it's up to about 200 hot lunches a day. They're serving Seven days a week, yeah, so weekends they've got shorter hours, but yeah, seven days a week. I think it's a barbecue on Sundays.
Kate Coomber:I'm always working in private land on those days, so I don't know what happens on weekends and that's just volunteers coming to serve those lunches. Yeah.
Dr Juergen Landmann:So, look, they have a few paid staff, but it's very few paid staff. But, yeah, coordinating the volunteers, and a lot of school groups come through, which I think is really powerful because they have. I think there are about 20 schools associated. So, rather than just collecting money for a charity and saying, oh, this is helping the homeless, what they always say is look, they say come along and have a look and have the kids there. The kids actually serve lunch, you know, cook the breakfast, so they'll cook some bacon, egg rolls or cook the lunch and then actually go and sit amongst the visitors to sort of break down stigmas, break down barriers and then teach. This is the new generation, you know. This is social justice awareness which you're actually seeing, not just hearing about and donating to put into a bucket of money.
Kate Coomber:And this is what we're trying to do with the team here, isn't it? It's about you having your night of sleeping out, but we're thinking about all the initiatives we can do in here as a team to raise awareness and actually get them out into the community to experience that for themselves, absolutely. No, that would be great, and so I guess, from a medical perspective. So is there also a clinic attached to this, or do you just see what's your role?
Dr Juergen Landmann:So look, basically what happened. It was actually a bit of serendipity on how I got there. So initially because I'd done the flu vaccine clinic. One of the med students actually who I knew, said, oh, there's this initiative where we're doing COVID vaccines in this drop-in centre at the Red Cross Night Cafe which is under City Hall. That's for 12 to 25-year-old homeless, and you know 12-year-old homeless which we have in Brisbane. But they said, look, would you like to do a COVID vaccine clinic there? I said, look, mate, nobody's going to want it because this is towards the tail end of it. But I thought, no, I like promoting, you know, supporting the medical students, because they've got to see a failure, to learn what works and what doesn't work. And sure enough, as predicted, it was a failure. I think I did one vaccine and that was to one of the other volunteers. But whilst I was there I was talking to a street outreach nurse and I was talking to her, and you know I get plenty of time to chat and I like to chat?
Sam Miklos:No, you don't at all, it is.
Dr Juergen Landmann:And she was saying look, you know, we see the same people, the young people. They're stigmatized when they go to emergency departments. They're the junkies, they're whatever. So we do their dressings and then they come and go and we just do the same dressing day in, day out. A lot of it is sort of self-inflicted or from fights or whatever, but it's infected. They need to see a doctor.
Dr Juergen Landmann:And I sort of famous last words. I said, look, I don't really want to get involved. But if it's really that, look, just send me a text, I'll flick you a script for antibiotic and you know if that's going to help you out. Then I sort of got a little bit more interest and I thought I actually they did a few clinics around the town and I thought I'd like to actually go and have a look at what they're doing. So somebody told me oh, look, you know they're doing a clinic in the valley. They gave me the address. You know you can turn up to there of an evening and have a look. So with young kids, as we all know, we don't often get hall passes.
Sam Miklos:So I got a hall pass. I'm like waiting for that day. I got a hall pass, I'm waiting for that day. Yeah, go on.
Dr Juergen Landmann:So this is how exciting my life is.
Sam Miklos:I got to go out and hang out. I was going to say you talk about your hall pass and mine. I feel like they're different, but anyway, let's go with yours.
Dr Juergen Landmann:So yeah, I got to go out into the valley of a night time to check out a homeless drop-in centre.
Sam Miklos:So anyway, it was a Wednesday night and I thought well, you know, I knew my son's school was associated with this place called Emmanuel City Mission, so I said I'll go and pop in there and have a look what's happening. So you know, because I'm not going to go home, I'm allowed out. Exactly. Somebody else is good for not going into the valley.
Dr Juergen Landmann:Yeah, exactly so I found them there in South Brisbane and had a look around and I talked to the boss there you know the guy running and I said, look, you know, would there be use for having a doctor come in here? So and they said, oh, look, you know, you can have a, we could try it. You could set up a clinic here if you wanted. We'll give you a four-week trial and see how you go. So I started doing just setting up. I literally set up a fold-out table at the back of the hall, operate out of a backpack, have a laptop and just do general practice service as well. It got flat out always busy and just people coming in for a bit of a chat, but just offering full GP services.
Kate Coomber:Word got around that you were there.
Dr Juergen Landmann:So I started doing that regularly on a Friday. They've never reviewed my four-week trial.
Kate Coomber:How long ago was that A?
Dr Juergen Landmann:couple of years, Wow. And then they actually ironically, the homeless drop-in centre became homeless because their lease wasn't renewed, but they luckily moved up to this wonderful new facility which was the old men's hostel which is in South Brisbane, which had been sitting vacant for a couple of years. So they took it over. Beautiful facilities. I've actually got a doctor's room there now, because they used to run a detox out of there actually with Dr Sturman, who I still work with. She's down in New Farm now, and so there's a doctor's room there, who I still work with. She's down in New Farm now, and so there's a doctor's room. There's a treatment room. They actually had a four-bed procedure room there from the detox, but we're not using that. But even though I've got my doctor's room and it's set up there so I can do procedures, which I probably well, actually I used to do procedures in the last place, but doing them on a church pew was a bit interesting, Cutting out skin lesions.
Kate Coomber:You've really got to be able to write Again.
Dr Juergen Landmann:you always ask the question. They say, oh, can you do that? I say, well, why not? Sure, it's not the most private or whatever, but it's not like these guys haven't seen a knife or blood before.
Sam Miklos:Do you feel that you can have real impact?
Dr Juergen Landmann:in that role.
Kate Coomber:It's so fair. Have you got a?
Sam Miklos:story that you can share of just the impact that you've had on one person.
Kate Coomber:Or there is a particular person that's stuck with you, of you know.
Dr Juergen Landmann:Look there's, you do, it's so nice and it's all chipping away. You don't very rarely do you have someone come in and you give them some advice and have changed their life. But it's what I love about working out of Emmanuel City Mission is people have got their guard down. They trust the organisation, they trust the volunteers there. So when they come and they see a service which is there, they sort of trust you a lot. Now sometimes they'll come and like health, as you mentioned earlier, just isn't on their radar. Like probably 20% of the guys there have got hepatitis C and it's just the contrast to. You know they've got hep C, they know it. It can be easily treatable with you know two or three months of tablets, one a day, and they're just not worried about it. Put that into contrast. Where I work in private land, where somebody's liver function test is slightly out, I need to see the best hepatologist in Brisbane. Who are they?
Dr Juergen Landmann:And so yeah. So basically you just, you see the guy, they're really pre-contemplative, they're just yeah, look, whatever, I don't care. And sometimes they'll even think that they have you know that they're baiting me as if I'm really worried to the fact that they're not being treated. But then you just get a rapport and you see them over there CART or a Centrelink certificate, and eventually you know you start engaging them and start engaging them until they actually say and you know, look, doc, you know how you've got that hep C. I think I'm ready to get a treatment now. And it's like those are the moments which really get you going.
Dr Juergen Landmann:Or when somebody comes back, they've been on the streets, they've had a completely chaotic life, they're addicted to all sorts of substances, which is what's essentially kept them on the street. You keep challenging the behaviour, challenging the behaviours. You know, when you see them and this is I said I've got a doctor's surgery I still operate out of a table at the back of the hall because that way I can keep an eye on everyone I'll go up and I'll have a chat to them whilst they're having lunch and eventually, when they see that somebody cares, then they actually, because some of these guys have never had someone care for them ever in their life, like who knows who Dad was, mum was probably on the gear. Their life has been very transactional. They're in and out of prison and then they suddenly come to you and they say, look, you know it's not fun anymore.
Dr Juergen Landmann:It's like no, but they don't know how to get out of this. So you show them a pathway like it's to us. It's so obvious what you've got to do. But no, just even the concept of how do you go to apply for a job? What would you do? How would you? You know, how would you? How would you put a CV together? Just all these type of things. And so you do that. And then you come back and they're in high vis because they've got a job as a labourer.
Kate Coomber:That must feel really good when you see them walk in like that. I was just going to say it gets so emotional when you think about this work it is.
Dr Juergen Landmann:It's just. That's when you know you've won.
Kate Coomber:And when you're really getting through to them and helping them to see what could be. Is medication and thing available Like is that? Can they even access it? Well, look so In terms of cost, no also.
Dr Juergen Landmann:This is a problem for them. You know you can write a script and often they'll go up to the emergency department with an infected whatever and they'll get a script for the antibiotics. But if you've got no money, what do you do? So look, in the end I started, you know. Often I just sort of said look, you know, it's seven dollars seventy. You got a health care card. I'll just, you know, I'll just pay for it. Look, I was bulk billing it. You know I was making something, but you know you're not doing, you're not there for the money, for sure. But yeah, I was usually paying for it out of my own pocket. Occasionally we've had different organizations. I've had a couple of little grants of $1,000 to set up a pharmacy account at the local pharmacy. So yeah, but price of medications is a major barrier. So it's not, you know. Or even dressings. You know they've got these big infected wounds and they're just open and go mate, why aren't you having a dressing on that? It's like oh well, yeah, that's money.
Kate Coomber:They sound so lucky to have you in that setting and, yeah, you clearly just care so much. You talked there about people going sort of in and out of prison perhaps, and you also work in one of the correctional facilities. Can you tell us a little bit about that, that role, yeah so look, we don't.
Dr Juergen Landmann:What struck me is people. You know, it's one thing. I can see the guys, I can sort of help them, and then you're getting somewhere and they're off in the prison system again and it's just in and out of prisons, because in my opinion.
Sam Miklos:Oh, it is, I don't think we really support people.
Dr Juergen Landmann:You know transitioning back out, you know it's. You know if you've done, let's say, a few years in a correctional facility and you've got less than $100 in your prison account, then when you're released, what you're given is you're given a it's called a blue bag. It's got a $20 go-kart in it, a $30 Woolies voucher, two $25 Vinnies vouchers, a towel and a few toiletries. You're dropped at the train station at Wacol and said good luck, don't re-offend Now if you I hope you got there?
Dr Juergen Landmann:Yeah, exactly, and look, you can go to Centrelink. You can get an emergency crisis payment plus a forward on your next check, so you'll have $600 to your name and you're left in Brisbane and you probably weren't often, to be honest, probably not the most functional member of society going into prison, and now I can imagine dropping me into a foreign city or a city anywhere else.
Kate Coomber:But then if you've had nothing and you get given $600 as well, if you can get that advance, well, that's it. I can imagine how to wisely use that and set yourself up for success probably isn't at the top of the list, absolutely not.
Dr Juergen Landmann:So what do they do? Look, some guys, when they get out of prison, are always going to go back to what they were doing. But I just see them time and time again at Emmanuel City and, like Doc, I just don't want to be here. I didn't enjoy my time in prison. I really don't want to reoffend. But what do you do? And a lot of them were picking up these big drug addictions because there's a medication called Suboxone they all get addicted to and they rack up big debts in the prison as well. So they leave with an addiction and they leave with a big drug debt. So now again, not only are you left at your train station with your blue bag and good luck, and you've got $600, but you've also got $100,000 drug debt to a bikey gang. How do you service that debt? And around and around we go.
Dr Juergen Landmann:So this is where I rang the head of prison health and I said, look, you know what are you guys doing? And he says, oh, it's not that easy. And it wasn't that easy. So I thought, well, why don't I go in? And you know, there's one way to fix the problem. And I had an idea on how to do it. And look and don't get me wrong, the prison health doctors, nurses are fantastic and they're very passionate, but, you know, under-resourced, under-staffed, and so I thought, well, I'll go in and do some work in the prison. So I basically work just in opiate substitution there and we see big, you know. So I started at Walston Prison because my actual next-door neighbour was an officer there and he said I was mowing his lawn and he said I'll come and work in prisons with me.
Kate Coomber:So I started working in his prison and he used to introduce me to all his mates as the guy who mows the lawn is now fixing our opiate problem. I was just about to say so. You're volunteering around town and you're also mowing your neighbour's lawn.
Dr Juergen Landmann:Well, I do have to confess. I do have my guilty midlife crisis purchase, which is a ride-on mower.
Sam Miklos:Oh well, thank you, and if you've ever had a ride-on mower, I was going to move to LA but you got a convertible Do I have a lawn big?
Dr Juergen Landmann:enough to justify a ride-on mower. No. So, if I can, find my neighbour's lawns and they'll let me mow it. You know it's a serious one it and they'll let me mow it. You know it's a serious one, it's a John Deere, it's even got a stubby holder. Yeah, so yeah, how different.
Sam Miklos:your midlife crisis is yes.
Dr Juergen Landmann:So yeah, so anyway, so off we. So there I am, and it was good. We had fantastic support from the nurses there and the prison system and we got rid of the opiate. Um the opiate well, the wait list to get on the opiate substitution program and um what was that?
Kate Coomber:what was the wait list?
Dr Juergen Landmann:oh, it's probably about 12 months to get on. So, yeah, there's a lot of damage you can do yourself in 12 months using sort of black market um, you know suboxone inside the prisons and like to give you an idea like these guys are spending hundreds of dollars a day on their habit, which is not only an impact for them racking up a debt when they get out, but it's also for their families. Like and we know, as I'm assuming you're law abiding I think I am, but you know, if you're, if you had a child who rings you up and says look, you know, mum, if you don't transfer $30,000 to this guy's account, I'm going to get beaten and raped.
Sam Miklos:What would you do? You'd just do it.
Dr Juergen Landmann:And so they're bleeding their families dry.
Sam Miklos:So anyway, we fixed that problem Was the program already there.
Dr Juergen Landmann:When you joined, it was there.
Sam Miklos:What was your role? What do you do in the program as a doctor?
Dr Juergen Landmann:So I basically just see the patients, put them on the program and also just adjust them. But it's not just giving them the drugs, it's actually trying to address some of their issues. I've had a number of the guys come and see me in a manual afterwards and I said, look, that's where I am, you know, if you want, and just that support. But again, it's just that supporting the guys, you know, not just you're not a number to them, you're onto that clinic room Exactly, number to them, you're on to that clinic room Exactly and even when they come in, the officers will often say we'll call up prisoners such and such, and I said no, no, no, they're my patient, you know they're not prisoners such and such.
Dr Juergen Landmann:They're Bob, they're Rachel, you know they're whoever. So it's just that support and also then talking about, like all these guys they could be the fully you know the big Viking enforcers, fullface tats. You get them one-on-one, they're just scared.
Dr Juergen Landmann:A lot of them are just scared. They don't know where to go. So it's just supporting them, getting them on an appropriate opiate replacement therapy, telling them how to continue that when they get out, and what it's done is it's cut down dramatically the illegal drug trade there. There's always going to be some. I was talking to the prison officers themselves. They love it. The general manager of the prison. They said look, they're saving millions of dollars in overtime because whenever someone was illegally injecting and bear in mind, you can't get needles inside the prison, so they're using homemade needles which have usually been passed around 20 different guys and the infections. And so that was just. He said.
Kate Coomber:The knock-on effect to health? Yeah, Absolutely.
Dr Juergen Landmann:And you know all the ambulance taking people to PA hospital and I can say. I've talked to the doctors there. It was costing the PA hospital millions of dollars a year in injection-related injuries from the prisons. It's not to mention tying up all these ambulance crews. All the prisons, yeah all these and then the corrections officer.
Dr Juergen Landmann:every guy going to hospital takes two officers two corrections officers to stay with them, and so it was just. You know, now that everyone's on the program, there's hardly any medical escorts out. Everyone's more chilled Because otherwise, if you're addicted to a medication and you need that when you wake up, you will do anything to get it. So mental health referrals are down by three quarters in the center. You know, there's less standovers, less fighting. It's just been shown how one medical intervention and it's not rocket science, I didn't do anything special there, but just being able to provide that service can have so many knock-on effects. And that's what I love about medicine.
Sam Miklos:Like I'm a GP, I'm not an addiction specialist.
Dr Juergen Landmann:I'm not one person. There is a team behind me, there is a team of nurses, very passionate nurses, and everyone through to the administration staff. But it's just how in medicine this is what I love about general practice I can go from private clinic to deciding I'm going to set up at a table at the back of a hall with my laptop through to I can go into a prison and do opiate replacement, and it's so that's your sign writing reference at the beginning, when you're saying, as a doctor, you need a good sign writer because you can create an opportunity down the passion projects that you have.
Kate Coomber:Exactly.
Dr Juergen Landmann:And yeah, and you've got that. And also I never get bored now because you know I find a lot of doctors burn out because they're just doing the same grind and the same thing all the time. So, look, I've got a very short attention span.
Sam Miklos:Has it helped Because you referenced earlier the burnout you felt after COVID has having some of these different projects helped?
Kate Coomber:Oh, absolutely, but these must still burden you, right Like, is it in a different way that still you're taking on a lot of people's things, which must you do?
Dr Juergen Landmann:But look, I always remember when I was in the hospitals and I was doing a bit of palliative care and I was talking to the consultant once and I said, look, how do you not get affected by this? You know you're dealing with people who are dying all the time and he says, look, you know the day you don't get affected, go home. You know you don't belong here, but you know you look at the benefits. You can't. You know, and I think every single person in the medical field knows, that they can't fix everybody else's problems. You can do your best and I pretend that I completely switch off, but I don't.
Dr Juergen Landmann:But I actually get, you know, even though I'm dealing with the most traumatic things, often, especially on the streets of South Brisbane, and they're really tough days and people are revealing to me things, you know, shocking things, which I often haven't told another soul. I leave that place energised because you know that your little interventions you haven't fixed problems but you've made a difference. You get that feeling that you've made a difference and I actually, whether it's there or working at Carino, you know, even though I've cut back my hours in private GP land, you know I love it because I've always myself to my patients. You know if they want a tie-wearing doctor, they never come back to me.
Sam Miklos:I'm wearing a shirt today for this interview.
Kate Coomber:You're particularly obsessed today.
Dr Juergen Landmann:This is the only shirt I wear, because I don't own shirts.
Kate Coomber:Do you remember when we were speaking to Dr Dinesh last season and his mum always said that you can't change the world, but you can change the world for that person? Yeah, and you can really have that impact directly on that person today, for that moment.
Dr Juergen Landmann:Yeah, I love that saying yeah, yeah, but it's true, you can do your best and you get excited about being able to go in and do that. And I get excited every day. There isn't a day when I don't go to work and I don't look forward to going to work. Have you ever felt?
Sam Miklos:fearful Like is there ever? I mean, if you think about working in prisons, working with the homeless, there's so many stigmas that are attached to these vulnerable groups and I guess what are the assumptions that people make that are wrong? And have you ever felt unsafe?
Dr Juergen Landmann:Yeah, look, I don't feel unsafe. And look, would I let any of my patients babysit the kids? No, but yeah, look, it's. Essentially, I think we're very privileged in healthcare and the fact that people respect us and they trust us generally and if they don't, it actually gives us an opportunity to explore the why.
Dr Juergen Landmann:And a lot of these guys have been treated very badly by the healthcare system. They've been stigmatized. You walk into an emergency department and you've got a face full of tats and track marks up your arms. A lot of them have been treated very poorly, even if they're coming in asking for help for a mental health issue. But I think I'm always very clear with my boundaries and I'm very. You know you don't let your guard down. But on the same note, I don't think anyone's ever had a problem. I don't really feel scared. Prisons are the safest place of all because you know I'm dealing with the same guys on the streets, except the difference is that, even though I'm in a concert room, I've got a duress button and one press of a duress button I've got the whole turtle squad there.
Sam Miklos:Yeah, turtle squad yes, has the like. There's this real theme in your work around supporting vulnerable groups, and has this emerged over the years post-COVID, or was there an experience in your life, or is it like where has this come from? Yeah, look, I don't know.
Dr Juergen Landmann:I suppose I was lucky again with my upbringing. My parents were always. I think we learn a lot from our parents and you know, even though they were both first generation migrants, if there was ever anyone who was, it was Christmas time. There was someone in the area who didn't have somewhere to go they were at Christmas time.
Kate Coomber:There was someone in the area who didn't have?
Dr Juergen Landmann:somewhere to go. They were at our table. So, yes, I suppose that's where I learned a bit from, but I think you learn a lot about yourself by giving and look, I enjoy it.
Kate Coomber:you know, I guess, what do you do to unwind and to make sure that you?
Sam Miklos:look after yourself whilst you're looking after all of things other than around John Deere with a beard. Is it the lawnmower?
Kate Coomber:is that the relaxing moment for you? You know what are the things that help you to make sure you can be at your best for others yeah, look, it is the lawnmower yeah but it's also, it's that changing.
Sam Miklos:I'll let you know where you actually need a gardener so no, it is.
Dr Juergen Landmann:I suppose that variety is always something which I'm not getting bogged down in the one thing Also, the beauty of general practice is set your hours. So I actually do that. My wife does three of the drop-offs. I do pretty much all the pickups from school, so I finish it. You know 2, 2.30, you know that's it, you call it. We're just so privileged in this career that you can just determine your hours and find it. You know you can't do that in every role, but you just don't take those roles and so I get to spend time with the kids, you know.
Kate Coomber:And they're your boundaries right this is what's important to you.
Sam Miklos:I get to pick the kids up, spend time with the kids. Look, it's actually more stressful.
Dr Juergen Landmann:I do pick up every day. I was like that's not my downtime, but that's it. So this is where you do that, you know. And I have every second saturday off, which I like. I've got a couple of days off during the week so I can come and see the lovely people at cmr on a wednesday. So, um, so this is my downtime, but, as I said, I actually get excited Like my hobby. Medicine is my hobby and I always love that saying if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life. So people say how do you unwind? It's like I actually I've just done two 14 hour days and the prison's just getting getting on top of some stuff and I have just been so looking forward to that for a long time because I didn't have to pick up on those two days.
Sam Miklos:Yeah, but no, but it's also like I.
Dr Juergen Landmann:Just my mind is. I see a project I want to work on and I get excited. And it's the same way other guys might get excited by building a garden bed or restoring a motorcycle. Well, look, I fixed the opiate substitution in a prison. That's what excited.
Sam Miklos:Hey, I've fixed the opiate substitution in a prison. That's what excited me. Hey, I got paid for it too. Wow, yeah, yeah. What's the next project then? Yeah, where to when you've kind of come to this or each of these projects that you've found? Are there other things that are in the back of your mind or other interests?
Dr Juergen Landmann:Yeah, I'm interested in the prison release space, yeah, and, as I said, I've already mentioned how we fail people, but also just that whole patient journey. So at the moment, I'm seeing them on the streets, I'm seeing them in the prisons. I want to see them through the watch houses. So how, when they get there, that we can better manage them to get them into the prisons, and then, when they leave the prison, let's give them a pathway where they don't have to see me on the streets of South Brisbane. So that's my next passion project.
Kate Coomber:I think that'll keep you going for a while.
Dr Juergen Landmann:I think that will.
Sam Miklos:I just don't give up the Sundays at Carina, because I really need to.
Kate Coomber:She still needs you. So CMR are making a donation to a charity of your choice with every episode. So what's your charity today?
Dr Juergen Landmann:I think it would have to be Emmanuel, Emmanuel, fantastic.
Kate Coomber:Hopefully we'll be able to get the team down there as well and come in, help out. Yeah, yeah, help out. Thank you, wonderful Thank you so much, jorgen.
Sam Miklos:Just you get so emotional talking about it. You can see that you're just so invested in all of the areas that you work in, and how lucky are all these people to have someone like you. That they can see and just how much you put into all of your work is just so inspiring. So thank you for finding the time to sit with us today, and it's been so nice to actually talk to you without a whole bunch of kids.
Dr Juergen Landmann:It is no. Look and thank you for the opportunity is that I'm obviously passionate and I love and other people can can sort of share some of their passion and maybe get themselves thinking it might not be your homelessness, they might be interested in refugee health, whatever. But just always asking that question on you know, rather than saying, well, that's not the way things are done. When anyone ever puts that to you, just ask them well, why not? Yeah, love it Spot on, why not?
Kate Coomber:Thank you, thank you so much no worries. We acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which we meet who, for centuries, have shared ancient methods of healing and cared for their communities. We pay our respects to elders, past and present.
