It Takes Heart
It Takes Heart is an unmissable podcast where healthcare workers share their honest and unique experiences from Australia’s frontline.
Discover real-life stories of passion and purpose, insight and inspiration from people on the inside and tales that are equal parts heart-warming, heart-wrenching and hilarious. It Takes Heart is co-hosted by cmr | Cornerstone Medical Recruitment CEO Samantha Miklos and Head of Talent and Employer Branding Kate Coomber.
It Takes Heart
Why Oral Health Therapist Karli Says Taking Risks Led to Her Most Fulfilling Life
What happens when you say yes to adventure, purpose, and the unknown? In this episode, we meet oral health therapist Karli Grace, whose journey from private practice to working in Australia’s most remote Indigenous communities is as inspiring as it is impactful.
Karli shares what it’s really like delivering oral healthcare across Central Australia, East Arnhem Land and the Torres Strait, setting up mobile clinics in remote communities and building long-term relationships in places that often go months without dental services. And in true locum life fashion, her story includes unexpected twists, including a car accident that led to a love story with a pilot who now flies her to work.
Her warmth, resilience and genuine passion for improving Indigenous health outcomes shine through as she discusses her research into vitamin D deficiency in pregnancy and its link to enamel development in children. This episode is a powerful reminder of what’s possible when you follow your heart, stay curious, and use your skills to serve others.
It Takes Heart is hosted by cmr CEO Sam Miklos, alongside Head of Talent and Employer Branding, Kate Coomber.
We Care; Music by Waveney Yasso
More about Karli's Organisations of Choice, Darwin Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Womens Shelter
Darwin Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Womens Shelter (DAIWS) was established in 1986 as a safe place for women and children escaping violence. For over 36 years DAIWS remains a proud Aboriginal Community Controlled Organisation providing specialist Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander domestic violence support service in Darwin and remote communities.
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This episode is a reminder that when we take risks, say yes to adventure and follow the path that feels right. Big things can happen.
Karli Grace:I actually was quite emotional when I was there. I went on a helicopter ride around and it was a sunset helicopter ride. It was really, really special and while I was up there I remember thinking I am so blessed, I am living a life that is so full. I am living a life that is so full and having those little moments where you just go. I'm so thankful to all the people that encouraged me along the way and kind of got me out here.
Sam Miklos:If you want to hear more great stories from our healthcare community, be sure to click, follow and subscribe, and don't forget to check us out on our Instagram page. It Takes Heart for all the behind the scenes fun, fun. Today we are joined by Karli Grace, an oral health therapist who swapped private practice for locum life. From Alice Springs to the Torres Strait, carly has worked hard to improve oral health outcomes in some of Australia's most remote communities. Welcome Carly to. It Takes Heart, thank you.
Karli Grace:It's a pleasure to be here. I feel really honored.
Sam Miklos:It's exciting to have you can we just talk about oral health? Therapist, that is a mouthful.
Karli Grace:It's a lot like. This is why we shorten it to OHT. But if you say, if someone says, oh, what do you do for work? No one knows what an OHT is, and no one knows what an oral health therapist is either.
Sam Miklos:So yeah, I need you to help. What is an OHT, an overhead projector.
Karli Grace:So an oral health therapist a lot of people are familiar with dental hygienist, so you go to your regular dental clinic and you get your teeth cleaned and then back in the day dental therapy was a huge thing, especially in the school dental service. So an oral health therapist is almost an amalgamation of those two roles in the dental world, but then it also has a little bit more around it. So it's a lot of it's a heavy focus on prevention. So if you have a patient come to you that is going through cancer treatment, you diagnose the different conditions that they might suffer from because of their cancer treatment and then help them, I guess, keep their mouth as healthy as possible. So you're giving them the tools.
Karli Grace:But then I mean there's so many other areas in the oral health therapy world, but a lot of it is paediatric dentistry and prevention. And then it has a strong focus on periodontics as well, which is gum health or gum disease. So we diagnose, treat, manage and maintain gum disease. Um, and it's I guess we're a real supporter in the dental um little family or the dental team to make sure that patients that are going through, say, full mouth rehabs are getting the best treatment that they can get, if that makes sense yeah, I'm just gonna say like with the pediatrics.
Sam Miklos:Sorry, can I just ask you about? The pediatric bed so you could do the pediatric dentistry is that what you mean?
Karli Grace:so where like?
Kate Coomber:I take the three kids in and line them up and we have a little look around, yeah, and so when we do take them to the dentist, are we seeing the dentist, dentist or are we just? It depends on the dental clinic. Yeah, does everybody have one.
Karli Grace:It's becoming very popular so some clinics will have multiple. The last private practice that I worked in we had four across three clinics. So usually on a day by day basis there would be one working and they do see usually all the all the children. And so you're doing, you're doing restorative treatment, you're doing extractions, you're doing essentially people know are familiar with root canal therapy. We don't do root canal therapy on children's teeth but it's a nerve treatment to be able to prolong the life of the tooth in the mouth rather than extracting it. So it is all this sort of the therapy base or the restorative dental treatment that would happen to a child is usually going to happen from an oral health therapist. But then you also do your general checks and cleans so we'd see adults of all ages. I've extended my scope so I have full scope and I can do fillings on all ages. And I've done a composite veneers course so I can do people's veneers.
Sam Miklos:So you can add on.
Karli Grace:Yeah, so you can really add on, but I mean you're not even confined to just working in a dental clinic doing clinical treatment. You can go and do education and you can go and do I mean you can work in academics and research.
Sam Miklos:How far off being a dentist are you then, like when you're?
Kate Coomber:going. I can add on this. I can add on that. Do you want to be Like, what's the? Yeah?
Karli Grace:where's the gap? So I get asked that question all the time. I am so happy being an oral health therapist because I love the role that I have in working with children and working in preventative health healthcare, whereas I see the dentists. Sometimes you look at dentistry as they're kind of like the mechanics that fix the problem once it's already occurred, whereas from an oral health therapy perspective, you're giving people the tools to be able to prevent getting to that yeah prevent bad oral health outcomes.
Karli Grace:so you're you kind of enforcing good oral hygiene habits at any stage of life, not necessarily just children. So I love that because I love working with people and I love communicating and I love sharing my knowledge, whereas if I was a dentist, you still do have that capacity by all means, but I think you would end up focusing more on just the you know, bread and butter, fillings and crowns and root canals, yeah, whereas I get that opportunity to really meet and greet, will meet with my patients and then end up um.
Karli Grace:You get to know them and it's a little bit more personal, um.
Sam Miklos:But if you wanted to be a dentist, say you have to go back to go do the whole thing, yeah, and can I ask if were?
Karli Grace:so did you start a dental hygienist no so I started straight out of high school, straight out of my first job at Sumo Salad Sumo.
Sam Miklos:Salad. You're like this is not my career here now. This is not where I'm going. I've got better things.
Karli Grace:I actually trialled a few different things. I wanted to go down the legal pathway, so I worked for a criminal lawyer first. Oh, the legal pathway, so I worked for a criminal lawyer first, and then I did like a pre-enlistment prep course for the Defence Force. I thought I wanted to be in defence and I very much fell into the dental world.
Karli Grace:I worked as a junior dental assistant this is going back many years and you do, you know I did a Certificate III in Dental Assisting and then I sort of went on and explored more opportunities in that role and then added on a Certificate IV in Oral Health Education. All this information about their oral health or about their health in general and what that can mean for their oral health, because it's so intertwined especially chronic diseases and systemic health issues are really related to dental health as well, and so I really started enjoying that. And then I was encouraged by a lot of people to go and study and people suggested studying oral health therapy more so than dentistry, because as a therapist I think you I think it was maybe obvious my personality would be better suited to working with people that little bit more and having that more preventative approach rather than that mechanic approach, if that makes sense.
Kate Coomber:The clue is actually in the title, isn't it? Well, yeah, exactly. So you mentioned they're working in private practice. Yes, but you've been working remotely, sort of locuming, around the country. What? What took you down that path?
Karli Grace:so I I mean that it's a long journey that got me there eventually. You know there's a lot of little pathways that eventually led to the work I'm doing right now. But I actually started working as a locum so fly and-in, fly-out worker, more on a contract basis rather than taking permanent positions in remote communities. I started that when I was 21 as a dental assistant.
Karli Grace:And then that's when I fell into oral health education and I ended up going over to Indonesia and setting up an oral health program on a remote community. Wow, and that was really fun, and it was, I mean, the power of Google Translate. I wouldn't have been able to do it because I was probably the only Like you were the team.
Sam Miklos:No, it was just.
Karli Grace:Well there was a team in the volunteer organisation I was working for, but we were doing turtle conservation, so it was completely different. We were using toothbrushes to clean the turtles.
Karli Grace:But I just sort of I saw an opportunity and I thought these kids are out of school, because it was school holidays, let's set up this little oral health promotion program. And so we kind of got the kids all brushing and made posters and tried to make it fun. So that then again, I guess, highlighted that interest for me, that I want to do more. I want to like, you can only do that for so long, I want to take this that step further. So I ended up going to university and while I was studying in the uni holidays I would always go back and work remote because I was a poor uni student.
Karli Grace:I needed the money, and this was you know it's hard to take a permanent position if you're at uni, so this was perfect for me it's very flexible.
Karli Grace:That's a really great idea actually when you're at uni like to go and be doing those local roles yeah yeah, I tell a lot of my dental nursing friends that if you want to do it, you can make it.
Karli Grace:You can make it happen. So, yeah, so that ended up taking me to university and then I always knew that the main goal was to get back out to remote Aboriginal communities and work, because I always had this drive to work for, I guess, underprivileged people and communities that have disadvantages and disparities, and so it was really important for me to sort of come full circle with that and go back out as a therapist I mean, the dental assistants they have a huge role when we go out remote as well, but I think, being that one that's doing the treatment and making the clinical decisions and giving feedback to the clients, as well to the organisations that I work for, on how you can approach a certain issue or obstacle and how you can work with the communities to be able to get the best oral health outcomes, so it feels nice to be out there doing what I always dreamed of.
Sam Miklos:Where are some of the places you've been?
Karli Grace:Oh my goodness, Okay, a community that I go to fairly regularly is WAD Air. So up in remote top end Northern Territory it's a community that unfortunately it has a sort of a bad reputation. It's had a lot of, I guess, social issues and political issues there, but it's actually one of my favourite communities to go to and whenever I go there I feel somewhat welcome in the community, particularly the health clinic. You know, I know the, the staff there now, and I think there's this appreciation that the, that one person, is returning. So that's a community that I really love. And then I've been to oh my goodness, maningrida, millingimbi, ramanginning, gapuyak, the Torres Strait. I just came back. How many days ago now, a few days, a few days Can you paint a picture?
Kate Coomber:You mentioned there that sometimes some communities might have a bad rep or what have you, but you really enjoy the work there. Can you paint a picture for maybe someone who's thinking you know what is remote work? What is a remote community? What are you talking about?
Karli Grace:I mean so remote communities are? Well, they're just that, they're remote. They're far, far away. You have to Do you fly to them?
Sam Miklos:Do you drive to them?
Karli Grace:Well, it depends. So if you're in Central Australia doing in Northern Territory, we drive to all the communities. So I did a trip at the start of this year, in February I believe it was, and I think we calculated it was about 3,800 kilometres in four weeks, four and a half weeks maybe, and that's sort of going from Alice Springs to Alicarong and then back, and then to Tennant Creek and then back, and then to Elliott and then to. We went, actually we drove all the way over to the WA border and worked in a beautiful community called Docker River which is just surrounded by the most incredible mountain ranges. But it's so different, you know, if you're from the east coast of Australia I mean, I haven't done west coast but east coast of Australia we see, you know beautiful, green, lush mountain ranges and and the ocean and everything, but it genuinely feels like you're in a different country. It is so um the the just the terrain is different. It's red, like be expected to see a lot of red dirt and it will stain your shoes yeah
Karli Grace:um, actually I drove at one point. I drove up up to Nullumboy to take a job up in East Arnhem Land and I worked there for six months. This was as an oral health therapist, but in a more coordinator role and I took my car up there and I was just in the mechanic yesterday and they had to replace my fan. I left there in 2019 and it's now 2025. He said I had to just take the fan out because it was busted up a bit and he goes it was full of dust and I said what colour was the dust?
Sam Miklos:And he's like it was real red.
Karli Grace:And I said oh, yeah that's from working in East Arnhem Land. So you know, visually it's very different. I guess socially it's really unique because you don't I don't think people get the opportunity to really tap into what it's like living and working in remote communities unless you put yourself in it. So from a cultural perspective, I feel really blessed that I've been able to experience certain things firsthand and sit down and get to know people and get to know their families. It's not just, you know, you go into a dental clinic and you do a couple of fillings or you take a few sick teeth out. You really get this opportunity to connect with people and learn little bits about culture that you don't really see in textbooks or you weren't taught at school. So I feel really thankful for that, that I have been able to connect with people in that sense.
Sam Miklos:How was the? You know that first time you went to a remote community, was it daunting? And for someone who's about to do that. What advice do we give them?
Karli Grace:So my first community back when I was a dental assistant I went to Water, which I kind of love because it's a place that it was almost where I started doing remote work, and I now still continue going to that community and the people I work for the clients they do know that I love going to Water. And this is up top end.
Kate Coomber:This is up top end, yeah.
Karli Grace:So you know you're taking out a little four-seater plane. Maybe might have six seats, depends on, I guess it depends on which, um which, aviation company you go through, but they're, they're little planes and they uh, I I mean, I think they're fun I guess you're limited on what you can take.
Kate Coomber:That's the way you're gonna get out there um, so it's.
Karli Grace:I mean that's, that's a challenge in itself for some people.
Kate Coomber:I was going to say people need to be aware of that right, because some people won't feel comfortable doing that?
Karli Grace:Yeah, 100% yeah.
Sam Miklos:It's the same as if you're not into long drives.
Kate Coomber:Well, yeah, like that's a lot of driving. I love it, but if you're not comfortable or confident, I would have to say I'm a good flyer.
Karli Grace:I I'm a good flyer. I mean I have to be. I've been flying for work for the last 20 years, but I love the drives, and the reason I love the drive is because I get to just rock out and listen to music the whole time. Are you driving on your own? It's really vast distances.
Karli Grace:So in Central Australia when we drive out, you take a nurse with you. Sometimes you will be your convoy, depending on if you're taking out a dental van because we'll set up the large dental vans at a health clinic or at a school and then the driver of the van needs to get back to the central hub, which will be our springs.
Kate Coomber:It's sort of like mobile dentistry coming in.
Karli Grace:Yeah, so we end up sort of taking two cars out and he takes one back and then he meets us back there to take the van back. So it's a lot of logistical operations that get done behind the scenes that we don't have to worry about. They just sort of go.
Karli Grace:There's the keys and here's your. You know we have to do car checks. I mean, my first trip to Central Australia, on my orientation, it was like, all right, get out the back, we're going to show you how to change a tyre. That was my next question. How handy are you with a car? I like to say I'm great, but my mechanic will say otherwise.
Kate Coomber:Just to give people scope of the distances you're talking about. You know how long is that drive? Yeah, if you, you know you're going to Tennant Creek, you're going to these communities.
Karli Grace:So the longest drive I've done was over to the WA border, which from Alice Springs was I mean I remember putting it in Google Maps and it was, it said 10 hours, and I was thinking, oh, this is a day, and I mean we stopped at Yulara on the way, so where? Uluru is. So I mean, that was cool.
Sam Miklos:I was just going to say that, no problem.
Karli Grace:Stunning. But then you keep going and, yeah, I think all up it was, it ended up being maybe like a nine-hour day driving and then you get in. You know you feel pretty exhausted after that, but I just live on such a high of the work that I do.
Sam Miklos:And you're travelling, yeah, you're seeing the countryside, it's beautiful Because you're right, lara, like so many people wouldn't get to see it. No, I've been waiting for a trip to get out there.
Karli Grace:So that particular trip, I have to say, out of all of the trips I've done, there is one other trip that is sentimental, that is special, but that trip was very much. It was really profound for me because I ended up getting to go to Uluru and just witnessing such a magnificent landmark and even Katajuta, which isn't even it's close by but I guess it's nowhere near as popular. There's something spiritual about it and it was. I actually was quite emotional. When I was there I went on a helicopter ride.
Karli Grace:Yeah, it's true, it was a sunset helicopter ride and it was really, really special and while I was up there I remember thinking I am so blessed that this is what I do for a job, that I have the opportunity and the privilege to be able to see these things, and I know it's taken a lot of hard work to get to it and a lot of sacrifice taken a lot of hard work to get to it and a lot of sacrifice and a lot of risk. But I am living a life that is so full and right and the path that I wanted to go, like the direction I wanted for my, for my life, and having those little moments where you just go I'm so thankful to all the people that encouraged me along the way and kind of got me out here and made it happen and just those little parts of fate where you think, if that never happened, that never would have happened.
Karli Grace:I'm a big believer in the butterfly effect and chaos theory, and I think everything happens for a reason and wherever you are in a moment is where you're meant to be, and I genuinely feel that every single trip I go on which is really cool when was that? I've got to ask where the other one was. I was going to say the same thing. Because, I was at Allure last year and I'm like you're right.
Sam Miklos:It's so spiritual like you can feel it. And then there was this other one and I'm like what's that?
Karli Grace:So the other one is more of a it's not like a pretty landmark, I, but it's not like a pretty landmark. I actually had a car crash. I was going to water and I had a car crash, which was really unfortunate. It was really, you know, frightening. It was handled incredibly. I was really well supported by all the management team and I was silly enough that the nurse and I, we, were asked do you want to go out to the remote community or do you want to stay here and just take a day? You don't need to go out, we'll change your flights around, we'll change things around, get you accommodation. And I sort of looked at the nurse and I thought, if you're happy to go, I'm happy to go, because I just look at it as the community needs the service.
Kate Coomber:And you felt.
Karli Grace:okay, I felt totally fine. I mean I was a bit like my neck's, a little sore. It was fine. I ended up walking on the treadmill that night type of thing. I was fine. It was more just the shake up of having a car accident.
Karli Grace:But she said, no, yeah, let's get out there. And I think because when you're working on the ground, you do unfortunately see how underserviced these places are, and it's not because people aren't trying, it's because we do have lack of funding and resources to get out there. Yeah, but when I sort of look at it and I go, this is three weeks that they're relying on no one's been here. Well, I was actually the last person that was there, and that was four months before, and I know that each child needs on average, three to four teeth extracted or filled, and there's X amount of kids in the community. These people need this service.
Karli Grace:So taking one day away is just a non-negotiable for me. I'm like, if I can work, if I'm okay, I'm getting out there. And so we went and I woke up the next morning and I couldn't get out of bed, so I was very stiff. Anyway, long story short, got the health clinic doctors to check me over. They said we need to actually send you back to Darwin for a CT scan. My management team wanted a physio to clear me to be able to go back, because dentistry is so heavy on your neck. So I did that and anyway, I ended up having to stay in Darwin that weekend, and I am a big believer of doing things on your own and I, for the last two years, have been forcing myself. I mean, I live a very independent life as it is, but I go to concerts by myself and I love doing it. It's just kind of like my thing now. And I went to a concert by myself and I met someone and that was about three months ago and I'm now moving to Darwin to be with him.
Sam Miklos:Oh, wow.
Karli Grace:So that was another trip that I mean, even though I had a car accident and I thought everything was just going crazy in a way, him and I had talked and I said I kind of had that realisation that if I never had a car accident I wouldn't have met you. So, that trip was special for its own reasons.
Kate Coomber:And if you just put yourself out there?
Karli Grace:And I feel like if I said, if he heard me say this, if he's listening, what's his name?
Kate Coomber:It will be. Hi Max Dullin. I should be reading Darwin, so I was like he kind of has to.
Sam Miklos:Even if it's on 1.5 times, speed.
Karli Grace:Yeah, yeah yeah, if he heard me say that the Central Australia trip was my favourite trip, so is he from Darwin? No, he's from Redland Bay, so Brissy, but he's been. He actually lived out in a remote Aboriginal community for two years and now he's living in Darwin and he's a pilot. Actually he flies the little planes that we go out in.
Kate Coomber:Oh, that's a beautiful story. What do you think?
Sam Miklos:Are you going to miss the remote work?
Kate Coomber:Or will you still do remote?
Karli Grace:No, I'll still do it, I'll still do it, just not in a locum capacity. So I'll still be going. I don't know how frequently it is, but I dare say it's probably every three or four weeks. But rather than doing three weeks since or four weeks since or five weeks since, it'll be three week, I'm sorry, it'll be one week. So Monday to Friday much more manageable. But there's yeah, there's a lot of blessings that will come with taking that shift, but I know that my career calling is to continue locuming.
Karli Grace:This is just what I have to do for love.
Kate Coomber:There's a moment right now for love, but how amazing that you can base yourself somewhere, like Darwin, and still do the work that you're passionate about and the opportunities Absolutely.
Sam Miklos:And also that you can low convince your final love.
Karli Grace:Oh, because that is a big concern for people. That is how you find love. I'm young and I don't want to be out. Yeah, like, how do you?
Sam Miklos:find love and you're like. Well, I'm going to concerts on my own.
Karli Grace:I had. Actually I was so not interested in dating. I sort of had been on first dates a bunch last year and I just I'd gotten to a point where I thought, no, you know what, I really just want to focus on myself and I'm going to just move to the Torres Strait. And I was going to do a longer stint, a longer locum stint, in the Torres Strait and take my dog up there and be based with my dog, because that's a tricky thing with locuming having those responsibilities. And so I wanted to go up to the Torres Strait and just live there. And I remember when I met Max, I just said no, no, no, be gone, I'm moving Like this can't happen.
Sam Miklos:This isn't going to work.
Karli Grace:I got plans, I've got big plans and it's not like I'm based in Brisbane and so what? It's a four-hour flight. You can make that work. It's the tourist route, so it's, you know, a flight from Brisbane to Cairns, cairns to Horn and then a ferry to Thursday Island or whichever other island you're based on. So I was like, logistically we can't, this isn't going to be a thing.
Karli Grace:This is. This isn't going to be a thing. This will be distant. Yeah, stand down, max. Yeah, but it didn't take long. I actually ended up extending my stay on the flight back from Water to Brisbane yeah, from Water to Darwin, darwin to Brisbane. I ended up extending it to spend more time with him and just sort of go is this something here? And it is.
Sam Miklos:So your dog is?
Kate Coomber:it Sailor your dog.
Karli Grace:Sailor yeah, so.
Sam Miklos:Sailor goes with you on these locusts, because where is your base?
Karli Grace:I'm based in the Sunshine Coast. My mum is down here in Brisbane but I have, so you can take your dog on certain placements, by all means, not so much remote Northern Territory communities, because it's just logistically it's impossible. I wouldn't want to. I mean Sail. Sailors are 32-kilogram Dobermans.
Kate Coomber:Oh my God, she's not going on those tiny planes On the four-seater there's no room.
Karli Grace:I would love that she's actually crossed with great dinosaurs, oh wow.
Sam Miklos:She's probably bigger than you. She's pretty big, I love it. So do you drive around to get to your placements with her?
Karli Grace:No, so my mum takes her or I have people come and house sit so I've had friends, you know, come and mind my house and mind my dog, but lately it's been mum. Yeah, cheers mum, but with this move to Darwin she's going to come with me and then when I go out remote, she's now Max's responsibility for those weeks. Are you going to drive up?
Karli Grace:No, I was going to, but logistically it made more sense to just fly, because I'm actually doing another stint up in the Torres Strait. I'm going to a little island called Badoo and that's going to be three weeks, and then I'll actually go directly from Cairns or Badoo there's one other stop in between there and then, wherever that is, to Horn Island, horn Island to Cairns, and then I'll go Cairns to Darwin and mum will put Sailor on the plane and I'll meet her on the other end, up in Darwin. She's been up there before. I've actually taken Sailor all around the country. That's amazing.
Kate Coomber:This dog has a lot of fun. It's got a great life With. That's amazing. This dog has a lot of life it's got a great life with locum.
Sam Miklos:Like I think you don't realise, you can take your dog and then, when you hear about the logistics, to like anything's possible to get to some of these places.
Kate Coomber:But you can do that and still have your dog and funny things tick, tick, tick and it sounds like you build beautiful friendships and things you mentioned you know nurses travel with and, I think, a few guests that we've had on, and certainly our candidates talked to us about, um, like the friendships and almost feeling more part of a community, absolutely doing this.
Karli Grace:I think, um, so I've. I've made some really good friendships doing remote work, even back, you know, going all the way back to when I was 18 or 20 I think it was 2021 when I first started doing remote work and I mean any industries. You're going to connect with people and you're going to make friends, but I think when you are doing something so unique, you have this bond. The other person gets it. They know the challenges that do come with it because I'm not going to be naive to the fact there is challenges with remote work but they get it. They understand. You know you get home and you need a few days to reset and find yourself again. So, yeah, there's almost this like camaraderie with it that I really appreciate and I think it's. I mean, one of my friends is probably one of the dearest friends and I only met her doing this work and, yeah, it is very special. Another friend I met is a woman in her, I want to say, late 60s, and she's actually a prison nurse and I was paired up in a house with her when we were based in Alice Springs for the weekends and we still message and give each other life updates and I miss, I miss going home to her every day and just chatting and hearing all the goss um so you know you, you connect with people that you probably wouldn't otherwise even have it even cross paths, you
Karli Grace:wouldn't even really, you know, I wouldn't think that I would connect so well with a woman that's my mum's age, but she's just someone that I have so much respect for. And, yeah, you know, we planned to meet up in Adelaide. She's from Adelaide and she's doing this in her 60s and she just got a dog. She rescued a dog from Alice Springs Pound and she flies. I don't know if she's doing the drive. She was playing around with the idea of doing the drive or doing the flight. So I think anything is really possible with this sort of work. You just have to take the challenges with it and take the risk. Yeah, what do you?
Kate Coomber:think is important Because, whilst it clearly really agrees with you and your whole philosophy on life, it won't suit everyone Absolutely not.
Karli Grace:What do you think are the?
Kate Coomber:really important things people need to be mindful of or really have to consider whether it's for them. Like you know, that flexibility piece obviously. I assume a bit of resilience or something.
Sam Miklos:What is it? What are the challenges?
Kate Coomber:Yeah, what is it that people really need to consider?
Karli Grace:I mean, that's hard to say, because I find it all so fun and amazing.
Sam Miklos:Yeah, when you say you're up there a challenge like what are they? Because you're so, I love it, everything's great.
Karli Grace:I just I'm a big, I say yes to pretty much anything. So, um, I think the challenges would be for my own stuff. If I'm really did dig deep and reflect on it, it would be that I'd never been on a plane before, before I moved to Alice Springs when I was 21. So I had only ever. Well, okay, I lie, I had been skydiving, so I jumped out of planes.
Sam Miklos:I love being like I've been skydiving. No, I mean, I feel like I've kind of worked. I'd never landed in a plane you know, you'd just land on your feet or your backside, so I'd been skydiving twice.
Karli Grace:But then, yeah, this was, I remember, my first stint. I went out to Alice and I was so excited that I was landing in a plane. I was like this is amazing, was?
Kate Coomber:it what you expected?
Karli Grace:Not at all, yeah, not at all. How so? Was it what you expected? Not at all? Yeah, not at all. How so? From, I think, my lack of understanding. Being that, young as well and growing up in just a coastal suburb in New South Wales, I was so far removed from what life is like in remote locations but in Indigenous cultures, I think we have this, we're so. There's so much distance between, um, what we see on the tv, on the media, and the news than when you're actually on the ground and you're you're seeing it firsthand. Um, you end up. I felt very, um, I had this sort of appreciation for the fact that I was experiencing and witnessing something that, in some ways, is really hard to see and to accept that this is going on in our own country.
Sam Miklos:What's going on? What are you seeing?
Karli Grace:In terms of the disparities in healthcare and education and living like lifestyle, um the sort of the social issues. I think we there there can almost be this label put on um remote areas that oh, there's so much trouble and there's so many issues and and there is um, but there's a lot of people out there doing good and helping. I guess how would I say it? Almost like the intentions are in the right place to actually see change and to facilitate change.
Karli Grace:But I guess when you are that young and you go out and you have had this one concept of what working in Indigenous healthcare is going to be, and then you see what it really is about and all the beauty in it as well. It's something that I really am thankful for because I think I wouldn't understand it otherwise, obviously, otherwise obviously. But I can share that with other people and sort of change, that lens of the reasons why we have problems in remote communities and with our First Nations people is because of generational trauma and it's because of poverty and it's because of what happened and it's because of colonisation. And I think if you put yourself on the ground and be amongst that, you start having empathy rather than judgement and I'm thankful that I feel like I've helped shift that lens for other people that haven't put themselves in those positions if that makes sense and coming from that real place of curiosity I imagine when you go there, of just listening.
Karli Grace:Yeah, and just being present with it as well. But I've learnt so much in terms of how family can be and how it's. You know you've got like large families but there's toddlers and you know nine-year-olds that are looking after the babies and it's so collective.
Karli Grace:They're really collective communities rather than this sort of singular, you know, mum, dad, two kids type of thing, and they're responsible for it, and you might have the grandparents, but when you really understand or when you get to know that even things like explaining dental treatment or consent to do a treatment for a child, there's multiple people involved in that process that look out for that child and care for that child, and I feel like that isn't always shown in the media.
Karli Grace:But it is when you're working amongst it and you can see how family, what family, really can be.
Sam Miklos:I think those are little things that I'm really thankful for no, no, you go no no, I was just gonna say, um, like you're so passionate about the work that you do and um, you've talked a bit about like you had the privilege of learning these things people don't know. Do you ever think about mentoring students, or like, are you at that point yet?
Kate Coomber:because I would love to do. They know it exists did you know? It existed, or how do we amplify this message?
Karli Grace:I think, um, I mean, I was really fortunate when I went to university, having already experienced remote work and working with Aboriginal people and just, you know, understanding a little bit about the culture that I wouldn't have otherwise. When I went to university. I've a lot of my peers would say I was a big advocate for Indigenous rights, indigenous healthcare, working with our First Nations people, not for them or at them, and I think that's really important, as well as going into situations or clinics or no matter which industry you're in really and asking people like how can I help or what do you need and what do you want? Not, I'm here to do this.
Karli Grace:So I think I feel that in my passion and advocacy for Indigenous healthcare and the conversations I have with people, and that even I mean I probably annoyed the students so much because I would, you know, say something in a lecture where I would say, oh, this is part of what I've experienced and what I've witnessed and just made people look at things from a different angle. I ended up actually being a student mentor at uni. So when I was in my second year, I mentored the first years and then I was the academic representative as well. So I had a role and a position in just my cohort where I could have these sorts of conversations with people, and luckily I've been asked to speak for universities doing, I guess, just sharing my experience.
Sam Miklos:Sharing your experience, because do they ever like talk at uni about this remote work?
Karli Grace:I was lucky at Charles Sturt University that it is. There is a strong focus on public health and working rurally and somewhat remotely. I think there's maybe more of a focus on rural work, sort of regional New South. Wales and even regional Victoria, but remote is kind of that if you game you can go do that.
Kate Coomber:Yeah, because there's a big difference between rural farming, communities and things and what you were talking about today, because I never talked about that when I went through occupational therapy.
Sam Miklos:I never heard about it. So it feels like it's this constant thing where people are like we don't know this exists.
Karli Grace:I don't think it's highlighted as the opportunity that it really is.
Kate Coomber:I think. That's across a lot of industries right. Like I imagine, teaching and various.
Sam Miklos:Yes, definitely, and also there's probably that perception that you need to have worked for a lot longer to be able to go out to these communities.
Karli Grace:I was in. I'd been out of uni a year and a half before I moved to East Arnhem Land and worked as a regional oral health coordinator. So I put you know, a big girl hat on and Did you feel supported Like was it daunting? It was hard because I think at that stage of my career I probably should have been focusing more on my clinical skills and being mentored, so I think I bit off more than I could chew, in a way, but I'm so open to experiences that scare the life out of me.
Kate Coomber:Because you probably got thrown into a much larger scope, I'd imagine. Yeah, definitely.
Karli Grace:Well, it was the communities that I was sort of responsible for facilitating dental services to was it was about 9,000 people. And then you share that role with the Northern Territory Government, and even just working sort of across organisations is really tricky, as well been no one in the position for years, so I didn't really know where to even start and I I thought what can I do here and what can I do? Well, like, where are my skills that I've developed over the years by doing this work? And so much of that was oral health education. So a big part of my role there I mean I was dictating it in a way was going out to the schools and implementing toothbrushing programs and going to the aged care facilities. And there's a funny story with that one, my partner. At the time she was an aged care disability support worker and she helped me round up the little old ladies and I gave this big session.
Karli Grace:I had cutouts because English is not going to be the first language by any means it's usually the fourth language and you learn little bits of the dialect, so you know how to say teeth or how to say water or how to say sugar.
Karli Grace:But I was doing this in a way that I thought was culturally appropriate and I had pictures of teeth and I did this whole session. It went for about 20 minutes and then I said, okay, I'm going to do a screening so that I can facilitate this. This is an urgent care treatment. This needs to be addressed ASAP. And a lot of the women they didn't have teeth. One woman didn't have any teeth, but but the opportunity still is.
Karli Grace:I sort of said to my partner I was like I feel like you should have screened this for me the thing is, is that the oral health therapist in me is that oral therapy and and dentistry isn't just teeth?
Kate Coomber:it's soft tissue.
Karli Grace:So you're looking for oral candida, which is like an oral thrush, which can be associated with certain medications, and when you have people that are medically so compromised, a lot to do with simply being Indigenous, which is really really unfortunate and really you know it's a terrible thing they have, you know, a lot of medical conditions and chronic diseases, and there are other conditions that we'll see in the mouth that aren't related to teeth specifically, so I still took the opportunity. As one, I can do things here.
Sam Miklos:We can still do this. We can still do this. We've got to get a couple more pictures.
Karli Grace:Isn't that just life?
Kate Coomber:though, yeah, 100%.
Karli Grace:You can plan something and you have your vision of which way it's going to go and life is going to go. No, let's shake it up a little bit for you and. I find the beauty in that, because now it's something that I look back on and I think it's funny, and now I've told you guys.
Kate Coomber:I love it and I think everyone in Australia deserves the right to access healthcare, and I think that's you know. You're doing such a wonderful job out there and I think the promotion piece of health is so important and the funding if it can go there, then you have less thereafter.
Karli Grace:Yeah, I think there are. We're so focused at the moment on um and and we have to be is is fixing the issues, like fixing the abscesses and the dental, which is the reactive stuff. Right, it's really reactive um, and I I don't know if it's just the way my brain works, but I like taking a step back and going bigger picture, bigger picture. Why are we here? And if it's just the way my brain works, but I like taking a step back and going bigger picture, bigger picture, bigger picture.
Kate Coomber:Why are we here?
Karli Grace:And maybe that's just been ingrained in me from being a therapist, because that's the way that we're designed to look at the body.
Sam Miklos:You're a why person. Why are we doing this? Why are we doing this?
Karli Grace:Yeah, so I feel like, if you look at the bigger picture, though, you can direct that funding or that change into a way that you can then actually achieve your goal on a broader scale. And it will take more time and it will take more understanding and more. You know planning and whatnot, but when I was at uni, my research was in this is going to be an awful thing to rattle off, but maternal hypovitaminosis D. So, essentially, vitamin D deficiency in pregnancy of the pregnant mother. So specifically, the second and third trimester is really important for the development of the baby's enamel or the teeth.
Karli Grace:So, at a cellular level, um and uh, we were looking at well, I was looking, I did the project by myself and I was looking at all the literature around vitamin d deficiency and, um how that that interplays into the child's oral health in the future, because if you have poor enamel quality, you're going to have high risk of dental decay. So what? What I was looking at was how is vitamin d? How do we end up being vitamin d deficient? And you know this diet and we all know sun, so sunlight is a huge thing and it's like okay, well, you're out in remote northern territory there's a lot of sun, yeah but the thing is is that um, vitamin d is synthesized in the skin.
Karli Grace:So our first nations, people, especially out in remote communities, very, very dark and so they're not absorbing or they're not synthesizing the vitamin d the way that you would want to, so they're often vitamin d deficient. So when I was working up in that um in that coordinator role, I worked with a dear friend, um, who was the director of medical services and she was really fascinated by this research and she ended up doing vitamin D screenings for the pregnant mothers and in that way they can then supplement those women that were vitamin D deficient and in some long-standing effect, that enamel is going to be stronger. So we should stop seeing in some small capacity. Obviously there's so many ways that you can end up with dental decay, um, but poor. You need multiple factors. You don't just have sugar on its own and you don't have, you know, lack of fluoride on its own. You need poor enamel quality. So if we have strong enamel, then we have that one.
Sam Miklos:You're off to the right starting point. It's a better.
Karli Grace:And that is literally how far back in terms of prevention can you really go, you know we can supplement with fluoride in the water, which we don't do in remote communities because the logistics of it is too difficult. It's maintaining water. Fluoridation plants is very. It's a huge, huge job and fluoridation plants is very it's a huge, huge job, and I mean some communities have 300 people in them. So, um, if you look at, how can we tackle oral health care from a true preventative point? Well, let's go back as far as we possibly can and just check the vitamin d of the pregnant mother.
Karli Grace:So that was something that um, that that research at uni. Then I I used it out in the real world, not in just you know, learn how to do a filling, or learn how to take your tooth out, or learn how to, and even just not studying it there in the classroom, to actually see it firsthand like that.
Karli Grace:Yeah, yeah, and we do and you do see, you see really poor enamel quality. Um so, a lot more. There's a condition called molar incisor hypermineralisation and I've never seen it to the scale that I do when I'm working out remote with our First Nations kids and adults.
Kate Coomber:I should say yeah look, I feel like we could talk for hours we always say that it's really hard so CMR are going to be making a donation to a charity of your choice.
Karli Grace:Okay, Thank you for doing that. What charity? So I don't actually know how to say it.
Sam Miklos:We'll work that out later. This can be awkward.
Karli Grace:It's D-A-I-W-S and it's Darwin, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Women's Shel shelter. So it's for domestic violence people that are experiencing domestic violence in remote communities. So that would be where I would want you guys to donate.
Sam Miklos:Thank you, Carly. You're just such a beautiful person too. Just hearing you talk.
Kate Coomber:So nice to hear someone who's really doing the work that they're literally meant to do.
Sam Miklos:Like. I still don't think you've found a single challenge.
Kate Coomber:I know there's still no challenges there. You know we talk about the right people in health care.
Karli Grace:The challenge would be. The biggest challenge for me and it's such a personal one is being away from my dog. But even in that there's a way around that, because it just depends on where you go. I mean, there was the opportunity to go to the Torres Strait and I would be living on Horn Island with my dog and I would just catch the ferry over every day, which the kids do for school anyway. So even that's not even a challenge.
Sam Miklos:It's a way around it. It's always a way, it's always a solution. I think every challenge for you is an opportunity and I love that and just thank you for all these communities Even to think, to take your research and then the impact that's having, like you're so passionate about what you do and it's it's amazing, it's inspiring to hear. I'm sure there'll be, someone who'll listen to this and go, oh gosh, I could do that. I could do that, yeah.
Karli Grace:I want to go and experience it, anyone can, if you, uh, if there's something that scares you, if there's something that scares you, if there's something that scares me, my immediate reaction is I've got to do it, even skydiving, you know it's one of those things you skydive before you go into play.
Karli Grace:You know, I just think that life is so full of beautiful opportunities and there's so many. It's that typical thing of like. You know, if one door closes, another will open. I just think there's so many doors, but if you don't start going through them, even the ones that you don't know what's on the other side, um, you know, stop planning your life and stop trying to put all the puzzle pieces together.
Karli Grace:Just take a risk where you don't know the unknown, because I think there's so much beauty in trusting the unknown and it's it's allowed me to live a really amazing life. So thank you guys for sending me out to communities.
Sam Miklos:Yeah, no, well, hopefully we can get you back out there.
Kate Coomber:Yeah, you will Enjoy Darwin, I'll enjoy Darwin, but like you know, sorry, max, but there might need to be a little bit of a swing back, and it sounds like there's still a lot of areas that you haven't explored.
Karli Grace:Oh, there's so many oh that you need to go back to so many. Yeah, I'm excited for the next chapter and then I'll be a locum again. Max can fly you around, yeah well, he will be my pilot at some point. He actually flew a friend, a dental nurse friend, the other day and he was late to the flight.
Sam Miklos:Good match Is that your plan Exactly. Thank to the flight. Good match Is that your plan Exactly. Thank you, two together. Maybe we should be recruiting pilots so that we just think about it. They're taking you all around. It's not remote.
Karli Grace:Yeah, he ended up flying in and he said, oh hi, sorry I'm late, my name's Max, I'll be flying into whichever community it was. And Rachel said Max. And apparently he said, oh, that's Rachel, because he'd met her. And he said, oh, I'm in love with your friend. Oh, so that was the first time the L word got used and I was like that's a bit special.
Sam Miklos:And you weren't there to hear it Wasn't there to hear it. But yeah, it is pretty special. It's been a great journey. It's been great to have you here today.
Kate Coomber:Thank you been a great journey. It's been great to have you here today, thank you, thanks, guys. We acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which we meet who for centuries have shared ancient methods of healing and cared for their communities. We pay our respects to elders, past and present.
