47. From Survival to Purpose: Dr Wayne Lee on Medicine, Music and Imposter Syndrome

What happens when a career built on survival slowly becomes a career built on purpose? For Dr Wayne Lee, a GP now practising in Brisbane, that shift is at the heart of a story spanning three countries, a musical childhood and a leap into practice ownership.

Dr Wayne opens up about why he chose medicine over a music career for reasons that were more about supporting his family than chasing passion, and how that early decision shaped the way he has approached every chapter since. He reflects candidly on burnout in traditional general practice, the moment he realised a stable, routine career wasn't feeding him the way he expected, and how locum work in rural and remote Australia reignited his sense of purpose. 

He also speaks honestly about imposter syndrome, not as something he overcame once, but as a constant companion through fellowship, remote clinical work and now practice ownership, and how learning to sit with it, rather than fight it, became one of his greatest strengths.

Wayne's organisation of choice, the Push for Better Foundation, raises awareness and engages people in mental health through connection, education and health and wellbeing. 

It Takes Heart is hosted by cmr’s Samantha Miklos and Kate Coomber and recorded at cmr’s head office in Brisbane.

We Care; Music by Waveney Yasso

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Transcript

Dr Wayne Lee Introduction

Sam Miklos 0:00

Dr. Wayne's journey is a powerful reminder that sometimes the path we haven't planned is the very one that saves us.

Dr Wayne Lee 0:07

I realized okay, I was functioning at 30% because of everything that was going on. But here by myself, I'm I'm not distracted. I could function at 80% if I just looked after myself a little bit better. Sometimes I could function at 100%. So he really activated my life.

Kate Coomber 0:29

Don't forget to subscribe or leave a review. Or don't forget to pop over to It TakesHart on Instagram, where you'll get all the behind the scenes with Wayne and our other guests.

Sam Miklos 0:42

So today we are sitting down with Dr. Wayne Lee. Now, Dr. Wayne has been part of our CMR Locum community for a number of years working rural contracts Australia. More recently, he has ditched the Locum Life and purchased a private practice right here in Brisbane. He couldn't stay away from us. He needed to get the practice across the road. He's got some incredible talents outside of medicine, but he's built an extraordinary life here as one special human. Welcome, Dr. Wayne, to It Takes Heart.

Dr Wayne Lee 1:12

Hey guys. Thank you for having me.

Sam Miklos 1:14

So I need to start with the first time that I laid eyes on you because it's stayed with me forever. We have our annual Christmas pot decorating competitions. Which is pretty mega. It is mega. The office turns into like a winter wonderland. Oh wow. It is, yeah, I can't expect it.

Kate Coomber 1:34

It's my kids' favourite time of year. They we're not going to be here this Christmas. And it's the first thing they've said is, are we missing out? It's epic. It's the whole thing transforms.

Sam Miklos 1:44

And the first year that I threw in an extra where I said you have to make sure that you bring our values to life.

Dr Wayne Lee 1:51

Yeah.

Sam Miklos 1:51

And you were singing on a laptop in a stall, a toilet stall, in stall in regional Victoria, singing a Christmas song. Why did you do that for us and for your team?

Dr Wayne Lee 2:06

Um I I guess I I was in store, I was working, and at the time, you know how sometimes like you you're just in such a good routine because you're away from from your usual life and distractions, and and that's what I really love about being out bush. You know, it's just you, and and that was part of my self-discovery. I was just, you know, I have my lunch boxes prepared, I did I did the weight loss recipe, and um, you know, I did my accounting, everything was done, and then um I got a got an email from Tanya. It's just like, oh, we need help. You know, like you know, could you do something? Because we we need to win.

Kate Coomber 2:51

It does not sound like Tanya. And they did win too.

Dr Wayne Lee 2:55

Yes. They did win, yes.

Kate Coomber 2:57

Well, as someone also competing that day.

Dr Wayne Lee 2:59

Yeah.

Kate Coomber 3:00

I felt a bit robbed. I was like, how do we not think of that? How do we not think of that?

Dr Wayne Lee 3:04

Yeah, I I I I don't know what what came into. I I'm not sure who suggested the singing. It might have been her. But I I I I yeah, I think I just sort of thought, okay, I'm gonna find the best spot in the house with the best echo. And and yeah, it was just a perfect position where you can put the laptop on the on the sink, and and I was just sitting right on the toilet and it was really comfortable.

Kate Coomber 3:35

Sitting on the toilet, sitting in a stall, in a stall. And you may have one. And you may have thought there might have been five people watching, but there was a huge group of us near on a hundred of us.

Dr Wayne Lee 3:45

I had no idea what was going on. I just told Tanya, I said, you know, you've looked after me, and um yeah, this is my sort of yeah, yeah, that's it.

Sam Miklos 3:56

But I think that that um the power of that moment, you know, didn't go unnoticed here because we talk so much about our community and they're an extension of us in this head office and to have you show up for that moment and it just it just blew me away. Like you could not let them win, but it meant a lot. So but I guess that's before we get into that, because I want to know singing. Can we just like you sit about that? Was it that you were a good singer or you just found a really good acoustic in that toilet? Um could you do this?

Dr Wayne Lee 4:28

Yeah, I I I I I've been singing for for for a wow while and um yeah, I think while I was locoming, that kind of got a little bit disrupted because you know, sometimes in the one doctor town after five you could hear pin drop. And so, you know, it just wasn't appropriate for the new doctor in town to be sort of Belting out of shoes. Well, everyone knows where where where the doctor lives. And um so yeah, and that was a perfect excuse that Tanya gave me to just yeah, yeah, because I'm gonna at some point because I could see the uh reflection of the uh toilet mirror, and then it was really close to the neighbors next door, and it was a lady, I think she was hanging her clothes or something, and then we kind sort of made a bit of an icon to her. It just gave me this look, and then I'm just like, okay, well, well, yeah, I I guess I'm in this. Yeah, yeah, that's fine. Let's just get it over with.

Music As A Real Superpower

Kate Coomber 5:34

And so when though did you realize you could sing? Have you always sung? Were you singing as a child?

Dr Wayne Lee 5:40

Um, I started when I was pretty young. So, you know, maybe when I was around 12, 13. So before before medicine, I was a sort of a freelance musician for a little while. And um yeah, it's it's kind of like a um uh it's it's always been a bit of a great escape for me as a kid, you know. Um so I was born in Taiwan, and then we then moved to the Philippines when I was about 10. At the time, I didn't speak a word of English, didn't speak a word of Filipino, and you know, I was just this awkward fat Taiwanese kid sitting at the back of the classroom, and um so that became a really great escape for me. And um yeah, and then I just kind of discovered okay, that's kind of my my superpower. You know, I think sometimes music um used to be the most effective language for me for for between me and the other kids at school. And yeah, and somehow it it sort of gave me a lot of confidence um when I was singing.

Sam Miklos 6:59

Yeah.

Dr Wayne Lee 7:00

Um so that's how it started, and I just never stopped.

Choosing Medicine Over The Industry

Sam Miklos 7:03

So why pursue a career as a doctor and not pursue the singing career? What shifted for you?

Dr Wayne Lee 7:10

Yeah, I think um a lot of it was also because um when I was younger, I did have an opportunity to be involved in something a little bit more um uh formal um in terms of you know being in the music industry. And uh I very quickly realized sometimes it's unfortunately not about, you know, the the music or not about the singing. You know, you you have to well back then, you know, you had to look a certain way, you had to behave a certain way, and and that just wasn't, you know, I realized I wasn't thriving, I wasn't enjoying the music.

Kate Coomber 7:56

The era of the manufactured pop star, right?

Dr Wayne Lee 7:58

Yeah, yeah. I mean I I love the pop stars, don't get me wrong, but I I just don't think that was a um a positive environment for me as a young kid. Um and and medicine was kind of a decision made because of my life situation at the time. So um back in the Philippines uh the home situation was not always the most peaceful. So um What was home like there?

Kate Coomber 8:33

Was you know, was it a large family, a small family?

Dr Wayne Lee 8:35

No, just a small family, sort of my siblings and and my parents. And I think um at the time we sort of didn't have a very peaceful or stable home environment. And so music yes became my escape, but then I quickly realized in order to get myself and the family out of a terrible situation, uh, I had to look for something that was gonna be um financially capable enough um to achieve that. So uh initially, yeah, I I think I I signed up to medicine um uh with a very different motive. Uh but I was really lucky to have sort of found my passion in medicine through a lot of really beautiful, amazing mentors.

Kate Coomber 9:35

And did you make that choice back there in the Philippines? Or did you know how did coming to Australia come about? And if if medicine wasn't really on your radar, you know, if I I can imagine myself if I was setting out to find a financially stable career, I want to support family.

Speaker 9:52

Yeah.

Kate Coomber 9:52

But I still don't think I could choose medicine because I uh of a number of factors really. Did you know, did it feel more natural for you? How did it actually come about?

Dr Wayne Lee 10:04

Um I I guess my advantage was my sort of academic performance because you know exams and quizzes and and and music, I think all these things that didn't have to involve another person's approval um became a really good confidence boost for me because you know that if you put in the work, you get a good output. So that's how I kind of learned to to to discover and rely on my sort of superpower to get out of an ugly home situation. Um as a matter of fact, I I did first apply the first time round, but I didn't get accepted into medicine.

Arriving In Australia On His Own

Sam Miklos 10:55

Um Was that in the Philippines or Australia?

Dr Wayne Lee 10:57

Uh Australia. You come out just a yeah. Yeah. So so they they said I needed, because in the Philippines at the time we had, I think, uh uh 10-year education. Um so they needed 12 years. So they said you needed to do something else and kind of bridge that time mist. And so I then took a um an offer from ANU, so that was a master's in biotechnology. So and and I didn't think much, you know. I kind of just made sure that financially it was uh viable and and I just booked a ticket and off I went.

Sam Miklos 11:37

On your own.

Dr Wayne Lee 11:38

On my own. On my own.

Sam Miklos 11:39

Booked a ticket to Australia then. Yeah, so it was so what can I get into? Head to Canberra.

Dr Wayne Lee 11:43

That's it, that's it.

Sam Miklos 11:44

And you said, um, I think you said to us before that coming to Australia really activated your life. Yes. Absolutely.

Dr Wayne Lee 11:52

Um I think being able to just focus on what I wanted to do and what I was supposed to do, you know, things like um studying, getting the research papers done, going out, making friends, without the sort of family disturbance was really healthy for me. And and to me, it was such a, you know, a a treasure, you know, and and I I realized, okay, I was functioning at 30% because of of everything that was going on. But here by myself, I'm I'm not distracted. I could function at 80% if I just looked after myself a little bit better. Sometimes I could function at 100%. So it really activated my life in that sense. And um yeah, so so I really uh appreciated that opportunity.

Speaker 12:58

Yeah.

Dr Wayne Lee 12:59

And um it was really good for me to sort of um branch out my social life. Um, you know, I kind of went on a bit of a spiritual journey. So it took a lot of time to really sort of, you know, process all of these feelings and emotions undisturbed, you know, in in the in a slow cooker. And so so I found that such a privilege to be able to do that. And um, and I remember very clearly, as soon as I was sort of learning about, you know, this new part of me, I I quickly sort of told my mom and my sisters, and I said, you know, you guys are my pillars, so I I need to be able to, you know, have someone in my life that that knows in and out of me and and and you know, and supporting me despite everything. And and I think they they did exactly that, and that really empowered me. You know, so so ever since I yeah, I always sort of realized these are kind of my my my superpowers.

Sam Miklos 14:21

Yeah. And you had it's interesting that uh having the space and the time out here just to work out who you are without the constraints of family. Oh have you um have you since fast forward to now? Like are your family still in the Philippines? Or you know, you said you wanted a financial career that would allow you to support the family. Are they still there?

Dr Wayne Lee 14:43

Yeah, I think the family's pretty supported. They're very independent now. So, you know, we all have our own lives. Um so I really um I'm really proud of that.

Kate Coomber 14:56

You know, um Is that here or there?

Dr Wayne Lee 14:58

Um here, here's the same thing. Yeah, so they've gone out.

Kate Coomber 15:00

Because that must have been also very challenging, I imagine, if you've got a very difficult home life. But you it sounds like you're very close to your mum and sisters.

Dr Wayne Lee 15:08

Absolutely, absolutely.

Kate Coomber 15:09

To leave that must have been a really hard choice.

Dr Wayne Lee 15:14

Yeah, it's it's I mean, it's hard enough, you know, trying to follow that typical immigrant hero story, you call it. You know, they they you you kind of you know gather all of your family resource and then you you you you you send out, you know, a a representative soldier. And say, you know, go out and then, you know, do what you can and then um and yeah, so it's been teamwork all the way. Um we kind of support each other in our own ways. But I think um even though I knew that it wasn't my obligation to do so, but just because of how how close we are, um I I kind of feel like, you know, I I I I mean I wouldn't be able to sleep at night anyway, if if I didn't sort of, you know, um give him the support that that they they they gave me.

Kate Coomber 16:14

So how long was it until they came out?

Dr Wayne Lee 16:17

Um so I think they probably about three three or four years ago. Yeah Yeah, yeah. So um now I'm really happy that they're all sort of living their independent lives and um and uh everyone sort of, you know, uh trying to thrive instead of survive, and and I think, you know, uh watching them see that um uh have that kind of the same realization that okay, my life is activated because it is, you know, undisturbed, peaceful, and and and fair. Um, you know, but we we don't take that lightly, you know. I think I think it's it's it's a privilege that that we didn't have growing up. And and and it's probably something that also uh really grounds us, you know, so so we we we do take every opportunity very sort of um seriously um because we it hasn't been easy. You know, it uh sometimes it still isn't, you know, there's still a lot of sort of um unresolved issues, but I think, you know, every every family has their own sort of you know complications and but you know we we can only do what we have control over and and do the best we can and and try and sort of generate good karma and hopefully we we we get the same in return.

Sam Miklos 17:54

You

Locum Life And Imposter Syndrome

Sam Miklos 17:55

said that I mean you'd already gone on quite a journey, but you've said that locum life really changed your life. Yes. So you've kind of gone up a notch when you've already made that move to Australia, you've had all this time of self-discovery and learning, and then fast forward locum life. How did locum life change your life?

Dr Wayne Lee 18:17

It was a very sort of I would say perfect timing. So at the time I remember I I had already fellowed and passed my exam, you know, and and I was kind of um recovering from my own sort of um traumatic personal relationship. And and and I realized that I wasn't um sort of thriving anymore in the traditional um GP Clinic. And um initially I thought, okay, maybe maybe it was the income, you know, that's that's try and hit that income ceiling. And and so I did a lot of sort of education, you know, I read the MBS back to front, and then you know, I attend all of the conferences that that I could find to sort of upskill.

Speaker 19:19

Yeah.

Sam Miklos 19:20

Um and then I realized you felt that money was just not what where you needed it to be. Or like you're like, is money to that's what you thought. Yeah, I thought.

Kate Coomber 19:30

And when you've gone through that journey and all of that study and you've built this, you know, you fellowed, you're you're kind of getting to this probably what people think to be peak time in your life to not be feeling it.

Dr Wayne Lee 19:40

Must be really conflicting to Yeah, and I wasn't sure if it was like a natural progression for for people in this career. And then uh later on I kind of realized, oh, maybe it's got to do with my own personality as well. I think some people are quite happy to have a stable routine, you know, where you have a set time and you see the the same group of patients, and you have that routine for you to be able to, you know, go to the gym and and drop off your kids and then pick up the kids, and and you know, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, you can, you know, either host a dinner or or go out with friends. Uh and and you know, I think I think that's really healthy. And um I did try to do that, and it it it just wasn't at the time, it it wasn't feeding my brain. And so there was this opportunity that came, and I think a colleague of mine um was locoming I think this was Central Queensland, and he had to go away for a few weeks. So he kind of reached out to me and said, Um, oh Wayne, you know, like uh I'm going away with my family and my kids. Uh I think you'd be good for this job for a little while. Can you, you know, it pays okay and and it's really great team. Um so at the time I kind of just took it. One to sort of help him out, but two is also just to see, okay, what is this all about? Because, you know, a lot of my colleagues at the time kind of referred the the locum world as the dark side. Really? Why? Yeah, I think I think you know, a lot of the times um it's very hard, say, if you're say mid training, and then you're trying to study and pass your exam, and then you have your placement requirement to be able to sort of, you know, move on to the next phase and and eventually fellow. Um, so a lot of the times uh what I noticed from some of my colleagues is that. They they really loved the the lifestyle and the flexibility and the financial and also the the the purpose reward you know that that locoman brings. And it became very hard for them to then go back to to the the same system to try and complete the rest of the requirements. So, you know. Yeah, some call it dark side, you know, some call it enlightenment, you know.

Kate Coomber 22:33

Whichever way you want to look at it. Can I ask for maybe some doctors who might be in a full-time job feeling the same as you and sort of thinking, is this it? You know, what how if you're in a job, how do you just decide to go and locum? You know, how did that work? Were you in a job? Did you have to take leave? Do you how do you decide to take that step?

Dr Wayne Lee 22:53

Um It was not easy because um I had to tell my practice manager at the time, and you know, I could tell from his facial expression that, you know, okay, maybe maybe I'm being too honest. Maybe I should have just said, you know, I I'm I'm going somewhere to have my hemorrhoids done, you know, something like that. You know, that that probably wouldn't have responded to a better response. But but eventually, you know, we we got there.

Speaker 23:24

Yeah.

Dr Wayne Lee 23:25

Uh and um it was really and then that's probably why it's so important to be in the practice where you have a supportive team, because I was able to kind of do a little bit of the regular clinics and then to sort of dip my toes and in the locum shifts. And and you know, so so both sides allowed me to sort of explore without suffering any sort of professional financial consequences, uh and until I decided that okay, no, this is really making me learn a lot about myself as a person, as a clinician, and it helped greatly with my imposter syndrome. Um, you know, things that I um didn't think that I was able to do clinically. Um sometimes when when the situation calls, you you realize, well, it actually you got this. Yeah you know, it it comes out very naturally, or or you you just have that instinct to then sort of use that, it's a combination of your soft skills and the hard skills. So, you know, I always say in medicine, you know, it's not just the science of the medicine, it's also the art of medicine. And and you know, if you're in the middle of nowhere, you're the only doctor, and someone's deteriorating and it's clinically sort of, you know, urgent, um you you do what you can, you rely on the team locally, and um and you you become very sort of honest about your clinical scope and and you you you pick up a phone call, you know, you call for help. Um and and you I don't think there was I I don't think I ever came into a situation where I didn't get the the urgent help that I needed, uh no matter where I where I where I am in in in Australia. So uh that helped a lot with my imposter syndrome because uh suddenly I am sort of sort of discovering that clinically I can do a lot of critical care medicine. You know, I can I can be the one doctor town and and you know back then as a GP in a in a 9 to 5 clinic, it was never sort of, you know, in my imagination even to think that I could I could do something like that. Um so I I found that one really challenging, but two is also very um exciting and thrilling. So through locoming, I kind of it reignited my passion for medicine. And um and I've learned that it is so important to be honest, genuine, and clear um with with whoever team on whatever team that that you're faced with. Um and and you really rely on each other and and and oftentimes I I find that's sort of the how should I put it? Um I find that to be probably the perfect balance. So so I can do a stint, maybe you know, two weeks to a month, and then I can give myself, you know, another month or two months of break and then um reassess and then go again. Um initially I was burning out a little bit because you know I either got too excited and do too much. You're like going from that was awesome, what's going on? And it's it's very sort of uh liberating, you know. Like I I always say um, you know, I will fly to the uh airport and then get my rental car, and I'll be driving, and I'll be sort of, you know, the first thing I do in the highway is I start figuring, okay, how does the cruise control work for this particular car? And then, you know, how do I how do I connect the music? And once everything is done, you drive a little bit more, and you know, as soon as the periphery turns into red dirt, like I'm I'm just in my happy place. You know, it's it's very liberating and it's kind of like a a working holiday. You know, yeah,

Why He Bought A Brisbane Practice

Dr Wayne Lee 28:08

yeah.

Sam Miklos 28:08

So why then did you buy a practice in the city? Right in Brisbane.

Dr Wayne Lee 28:16

Yeah. Um I think it's the same sort of you know, it got to a point where I realised I was maybe um sort of maxed out with with what I could be learning and earning. And and you know, I've I've worked across so many different parts of Australia for for a few years, and uh and you you kind of do you do collect a few pearls along the way, and sometimes the the the more rural, the more under-resource, under-service the the the area is, the more creative and the more sort of um cooperative, a corporation you you you get to witness um within the local network. And and that sort of really inspired me in a way to say, okay, you know, I I am finally going to try and grow my own pear and um you know and really do this. And um I do really want to, you know, the risk of sounding a bit a bit corny, you know, be be the difference you want to see. And I think what I've observed with a lot of the health services and the clinics is that um uh a lot of them are very um patient focused, which is fine. We should always prioritize patient care. But on top of that, I think it is also really important to sort of support the the doctor's well-being. And for me, I think that the element of community that I've observed in in the rural regions um is potentially something that I could bring into, you know, the the the Metro Clinic. Um and right now, you know, as you'll know, I I I bought the clinic um last December. It's Next Practice Newstead, we're just right across the road. And um our mission is sort of to advocate for patient care by empowering our team members and our care team. And the way that we empower our care team members is to um achieve that through technology, education, system, and process. Um and I think it's been working uh pretty well. Uh we are gener we're we're sort of becoming a bit of that community. And um like last month, I think we did uh the biggest morning tea. So everyone was, you know, baking cupcakes and we were sending out a lot of the emails and ads. We did a bit of social media um campaign, and the the team members did some, you know, funny, silly video silly videos. Um and and the community really engaged. Yeah, and and I find that really refreshing because a lot of the metro clinics are quite um uh you know, because it's so fast-paced and and it's so transactional, so even though there's an intention to be relational with the patient, um, you know, we are not uh the most of the clinics are not sort of empowered to do that, you know, either either by lack of rebate from the government or you know, just the sheer volume of patients and sick people.

Speaker 32:19

Yeah.

Dr Wayne Lee 32:20

So in next practice news that I think we have that uh advantage of time and space um to to be able to create build a relationship with with every one of our patients. And um and it's very sort of satisfying.

Proactive Healthcare Over Transactional Care

Kate Coomber 32:40

Why do you have that time and space? Why do you have that or how have you created that when maybe others aren't and it feels hard and fast down the road?

Dr Wayne Lee 32:50

I think it's because I I was quite lucky to be able to, you know, I think that the existing team um kind of just welcomed me with open arms, and and we do, we're quite aligned with with our sort of vision and and how we want to practice medicine and bring it to our community. So we are very big on what I would call proactive medicine, proactive healthcare. Um, you know, in contrary to, I suppose to like the reactive medicine where, you know, if you get sick, you see the doctor, you have the medicine, you know, you do a little bit of tests, you have a follow-up, and that's the end of. So it's we we don't really want that transactional sort of relationship only. We still do that. You know, we still cater for patients that that are unwell and need help, and and our doctors do a really good job at it. Uh, but I think I can see that shift, especially with this area, that that um we are sort of blessed with uh a group of very hardworking uh individuals that are usually sort of um in the younger age group and and they're working, they they have young families. Um even though they don't have any sort of you know significant sickness or chronic conditions, um, they are quite motivated to learn uh about their health. Yeah, quite quite motivated to sort of um have the professional assistance from the doctors to help map out their health and and what else could be sort of you know improved and and in terms of identifying risk factors, for instance, you know, um going through things like cancer screening um and having a comprehensive assessment um with with the appropriate blood tests, um plus or minus some other investigations. Um so I I I really love that because I can see that the the patients are feeling empowered and in control because they're learning and and the more knowledge they have about their health, the the the more in control and confident they feel.

Sam Miklos 35:12

And are you seeing that it's like a um like a younger generation coming through that is more focused on wellness?

Kate Coomber 35:19

I suppose it's a bit controversial too, isn't it? Because I think sometimes there's a lot of information out there and young people might be getting a lot of their information from social media.

Speaker 35:29

Absolutely.

Kate Coomber 35:30

And I imagine there's also some frustration from the medical community when you go to the doctor asking for certain things.

Dr Wayne Lee 35:37

Yes.

Kate Coomber 35:38

So how yeah, is it the younger generation?

Dr Wayne Lee 35:40

But how do we bridge the gap and I think it's an opportunity because what I've observed is that you know, when when the patient that is motivated, and it might not be the right uh motivation because they might have learned about this from a different source. So they will come to the clinic and say, This is what I want done, or this is what I want to do. And I think that's a really critical opportunity for us as clinicians and as a care team to be able to have an open discussion about, you know, okay, um, you know, tell me what you know about this, where did you learn this from? And and you know, and then you start explaining, yes, it can be done, but you know, if we go by evidence-based, uh, usually things like this are done in XYZ, you know, conditions, or or you will only be eligible for for such you know um investigation or service um if you satisfy XYZ eligibility. And I think that that opportunistic um education eventually would lead to a uh uh hopefully a stronger therapeutic alliance that's built in trust and patients don't feel judged, they don't feel like they're being dismissed and pummed off, and you know the doctor didn't roll their eyes and go, okay, another one. You know, and sometimes unfortunately can still happen.

Speaker 37:12

Yeah.

Dr Wayne Lee 37:13

So I I'm a big believer that if the patient is here um seeking advice, seeking help, um, you know, our job is to, that's why we're called consultants, because our job is to consult. And and we we give them the right information with the right evidence and able to sort of properly counsel them and say, yep, up to this point, it's evidence-based. This point onward, not so much, you know, and and depends on how you want to look at it. You know, it could be premium, um, but if you're getting charged a fortune for it, you know, like yeah, there's a there's a thin line between premium and you you're just being excessive, yeah. Yeah, excessively charged, yeah, you know, for something that has no evidence. So, and we do see, unfortunately, uh a few of similar situations that uh that uh a particular service or investigations um sort of um might might n be advertised in a way that is not uh clearly outlined that that what is evidence-based and and what isn't. So I think in order for a patient to make a full informed consent, they need all of the information.

Kate Coomber 38:39

Yeah, and I think what you said there about consulting is so important because I imagine when a patient is coming in, and certainly from my own experience, you know, it's the questions are coming for a reason.

Dr Wayne Lee 38:47

That's it.

Kate Coomber 38:48

It's trying to unpack what is the reason, is it fear, has something happened close to them? There's got to be a reason or some driver to why they're coming with this information.

Dr Wayne Lee 38:56

I agree, I agree. And and it's an opportunity to to get to know the patient as a person first.

Speaker 39:02

Yeah.

Dr Wayne Lee 39:03

You know, and and then you you have that different layers and different context to be able to really work out, you know, what what what is it that that's really, you know, making this patient want to do this? You know, understanding that context is so important. Um and I like to think of it in a way that um in a particular consult, you have both the clinician's agenda and also the patient agenda. And sometimes they they might be different. But but your job as a consultant, you're facilitating the consultation. You you really have to figure out what what the patient agenda is as well. And and that's how you then come up with a properly agreed on, discussed, informed, negotiated care.

Prevention Barriers And System Incentives

Sam Miklos 39:53

So it's really in terms of that proactive health, it's really important for people to be seeing their GP or you at next practice in Newstead before they're sick. So it's not when you're sick, it's actually going and taking those steps. And do you think what would you say are the biggest barriers to people maybe taking a more proactive as a patient? Is it because we're not used to that?

Dr Wayne Lee 40:19

Yes, I mean part of it is that um uh I would say it's maybe that patients are not empowered enough, you know, in order to feel empowered then, you know, if we go by what what our clinic stands for, um culture. So so what's what's the culture in in the Australian primary healthcare system today? You know, where is the government um focused on? You know, and um how are the patients informed and how are they educated, how are they made aware, you know, in in what approach and and you know where where is the funding focused on? So all of that can can affect you know how um the patients can be empowered or disempowered through through culture, yeah, you know, and and you can even go broader, you know, how how does the primary health care system connect to the tertiary care system, to the big hospitals? So we have a lot of sort of new hospitals being built. We have a lot of urgent care centers being built. And and I can see that our government is trying really hard to provide you know access to care. And and I think it it's important, you know, like uh especially in Australia, I think everyone deserves care, health care. Um a a controversial sort of layer that I would put in would be um I also think that Australians deserve um a quality care, quality health care. And and sometimes um if the funding is focused on a particular um part of of the primary health care system, um it might mean that um other parts are not going to be supported as as much. And and but we all know as clinicians that the most economical and the most effective and the least invasive way to uh uh improve someone's health care and and to to prevent them from you know uh being super sick and and critical and ending up in an ICU bed and uh costing taxpayers lots and lots of money is is through prevention. And I think um as clinicians, we are starting to sort of um realize that, slowly learning that, you know, as a group, as a profession, we we really need to focus on prevention. And and the way to to prevent something from happening, you you need to be able to identify the risk factors. You know, you need to be able to figure out the the evidence-based um approach and interventions and and treatments and investigations that could get you there. And and I think that's something that I hope um we could get a lot more support in. And so yeah, so so I think those are the the factors that could potentially affect um how uh the Australian sort of citizens are are using our primary health care. And um and you're right, I I think you know uh the best way to utilize a GP is to use them proactively through prevention. And and one way of doing that is through um health assessment um or just finding a GP that you really trust and that you really sort of gel well with and to be able to have that conversation, develop that context and and and um create that personal health map, so to speak.

Sam Miklos 44:33

Yeah. And what's where's the locum work fit in for you now? So if you're you've bought the practice, are you still intending to locum or yeah, or is that?

Dr Wayne Lee 44:44

I I still locum from time to time. And and you know, I've been telling Tanya, um, shout out to my super agent. I love her so much. Um yeah, and and I I try to do that uh at uh on the weekends now. So then during the week I can still sort of um be part of the the clinic, you know, be in the team, in the system, um, and and try to sort of um fine-tune and improve. Um because we're we're still pretty uh new as a new management. It's only been six months, but but we're seeing a significant shift, you know, uh in a very positive way. Um we're getting a lot of new patients that that that are starting to resonate with with uh what what we're trying to do, uh which is sort of, you know, quality, proactive, personalized medicine.

Leadership Learning And Collaborative Problem Solving

Sam Miklos 45:44

And um I guess education's a lifelong process for you. What's next? You know, taking on a practice, I imagine there's a fair bit of learning.

Dr Wayne Lee 45:57

Huge learning curve. Um and um yeah, I think sometimes um practice ownership and and being a the clinical director of a of a practice with a group of really competent clinicians, um it it does empower me to sort of keep upskilling. So what I'm currently working on right now um is the Australian Institute of Company Directors. Yes, we're doing this together. Yeah, I think we're doing that for next week.

Sam Miklos 46:35

Next week. Six weeks of pre-reading, which my friend over here is cramming in two days. I've been getting up at 5 a.m. for weeks and I'm still not through it. It is a lot. It's it's a huge level up.

Dr Wayne Lee 46:47

Yeah, if I if I get asked a question, I'm just gonna say uh Sam is my study partner.

Sam Miklos 46:56

Well away from you. I'm gonna find the smartest person in the room. Because it because that to that um point, stepping into running a business when you've been low-comming, did you and you talked about imposter syndrome as well. Did you feel equipped to do that?

Dr Wayne Lee 47:17

Um equipped in the way that I accepted that the imposter syndrome would be part of it.

Speaker 47:24

Yeah.

Dr Wayne Lee 47:24

And I think the beauty of having gone through that in medicine and then and then in operational um kind of uh situation, because you you're seeing so many different clinics and they all do things very differently. So it does sort of challenge me constantly to learn about the different ways to to operate.

Kate Coomber 47:51

Yeah. You've got collected experiences, kind of collecting that pearls.

Dr Wayne Lee 47:55

And and so I think in that way, I I I feel equipped, but at the same time, you know, I I also acknowledge that uh imposter syndrome can also become a positive push for me to to always sort of stay grounded and and and using the same soft skills, really, you know, rely on the new team, be genuine, communicate your gaps, and and hope that everyone feels comfortable to do that with each other. Um what we do in our team, we we call it a collaborative problem solving. So that um if we run into a problem either operationally, financially, clinically, um we assess whether that's something that's within our scope to handle as an individual, and if the answer is no, then we communicate and seek out for help. And and you know, so far that people always get help. You know, people are really happy to be in it, and then we we enjoy being able to sort of you know um resolve a problem, you know, especially if it's something that's super creative and everyone just had that light bulb moment. So whoa, we did that, you know. And so I really like that aspect of of collaborative problem solving. But at the same time, that pressure from the imposter syndrome is very real. Um and I could either panic or freeze, or I do something about it, which is why I'm doing this course.

Sam Miklos 49:41

Yeah.

Dr Wayne Lee 49:41

Yeah.

Sam Miklos 49:42

When when you you know reflect back on your life, you've had some really big life-changing moments coming to Australia, having that time to yourself, the locum journey now as a practice owner. If you were to go back to that 10-year-old you in the Philippines, didn't speak the language, what would you tell that version of you?

Dr Wayne Lee 50:07

Um just keep going. I think um yeah, it it's you know I think that the home environment at the time made me realize very quickly that um life is going to be hard regardless. You know, you could still be a billionaire but with no debt and and still experience a life full of suffering, and suffering is very subjective, you know. So and I think I realize if if you're gonna suffer anyway, might as well choose something that is worth suffering for that will push you towards you know, growth or transformation or or push yourself out of a messy situation, which is kind of what what what what what we did um as a family. So yeah, I think just keep moving, just keep going, because um, you know, we talk about health mapping, you know, and and life mapping. It's it's the same thing. You know, you we're uh that's how we discover who we are and and that's how we sometimes um learn that what what's perceived as as weakness and and and negative difference um actually can be your superpowers.

Sam Miklos 51:38

Yeah.

Dr Wayne Lee 51:39

Yeah.

Sam Miklos 51:39

You said when life gets crazy, go and do something crazier as well.

Dr Wayne Lee 51:43

Yes, and that is not a medical advice. That is not a medical advice.

Kate Coomber 51:47

You should be so proud. I imagine there's an immense sense of pride in in everything that you've achieved so far with still so much to come.

Push For Better Spotlight

Kate Coomber 51:56

Um CMR are going to be making a donation to a charity of your choice when your episode is published. Where can we raise a bit of awareness for? Is there a charity in mind?

Dr Wayne Lee 52:06

Um at the moment, I think um mental health is a is a big space that that we're seeing um the the communities needing a lot of support with. Um and with the recent removal of mental health uh billings for for primary care, um that that becomes even more apparent on the ground that we can see. So I think um you know, like this month as a team we're doing a push-up uh challenge.

Speaker 52:46

Yeah.

Dr Wayne Lee 52:47

And um uh I think the charity was called Push for Better Mental Health Charity. Um I could be wrong, but um yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what it was called, push for better foundation. And um so every day um, you know, we have a team app. So we're just signed up for the challenge. And at the moment, our nurse Melanie, she's killing it, putting all the guys to shame.

Sam Miklos 53:20

And you know, I'm how many push-ups are you doing a day?

Dr Wayne Lee 53:22

Yesterday I did 120.

Sam Miklos 53:24

Wow. But like one hit or just like against the wall?

Dr Wayne Lee 53:30

I'm gonna have my arms right now if I did that in one go. But um, yeah, I did it in in like small fractions um so that you know the next day I can still drive and use the computer to consult.

Sam Miklos 53:43

Fantastic. We will absolutely be um happy to donate that money there. Wayne, thank you so much for your time. And um it's been great just hearing your story. You know, I've I've had little sniffets, but not putting everything together. And honestly, I never would have thought when I saw you singing in a toilet or sitting on a toilet singing in stall that you end up owning the practice across the road. I think um in many ways you're still only at the very beginning of of this long, exciting journey. So well done, thank you.

Dr Wayne Lee 54:13

No, and and thank you guys for sort of you know making a difference in in my life. And yeah, I wouldn't be here and you know have a practice right across the road if it wasn't for for the support that you guys have given me.

Speaker 54:30

Thank you. We care for the lessons.

Kate Coomber 54:36

We acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of which we meet, who for centuries have shared ancient methods of healing and cared for their communities. We pay our respects to elders past and present.