Hay Festival, Cally Beaton and Midlife Reinvention

We talk through the surge that hits in midlife when we stop shrinking ourselves and start choosing joy without apology. Lucy shares Hay Festival inspiration and we trace how small acts of rebellion can turn into real reinvention at home, at work, and inside our own emotional lives.
• Lucy’s Hay Festival highlights and why Cally Beaton stands out as a stand up
• Gen X women saying no to staying silent and keeping it small 
• the “harmoniser” role, why it exhausts us, and how we step back 
• joy foreboding, guilt around happiness, and letting ourselves feel fully 
• reinvention on our own terms, including career pivots and new boundaries 
• dreaming as a practice, building new patterns daily, and choosing one next step

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Transcript

Welcome And The Week’s Spark

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Say sister. We are covering the Lucy. We gather every week to bring half an hour of a conversation about topics that we really love, we really care about, things that we're thinking about, things that we're sharing in between of us. And this week we're gonna talk about Lucy's trip to the Hay and Y festival, where she heard some amazing people speak, but in particular the brilliant Kelly Beater who did a complete life dip at age 15. I also attended a 7am coffee raid, which was the most incredible experience, and just to look around the room and see the joy on women's faces was I mean I can still see it now, I can feel it now. Um just so transformative, and sometimes we just need to be in the room with each other, have some music on, and dance it out. I'm certainly in a surge of energy to get shit done without apology right now, and it's got me thinking about the trends, the pivots, the change, and the courage that we need to keep shifting, to keep moving through the challenges. And actually, as women, we share this, we have this in common. So, Lucy, how were tell us more?

Hay Festival Highlights And Big Voices

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Oh, uh it was my second year for going to Hay, and um last year I went on my own and saw some amazing speakers, and so this year I was like, that's it, I'm going, and uh I could only manage one full day, unfortunately. It's like a you know a 10-day festival. But on the day that I was there, um Malala was first, and that's just somebody who I always wanted to see here, you know, in the flesh. Then Matt Haig, who is one of my favourite authors, um, is gets you thinking, um, but also it's a really easy read. And then Callie Beaton. Now, Callie, I just saw her name pop up, I was like, Yes, because I've been following her on Instagram for ages, and I didn't really know her backstory, I just knew that she was a proper feminist. Um, and I was like, Yes, but actually, uh, she was phenomenal. And I took my 22-year-old who had no idea who she was, and she came away and she said, Of all the speakers, she was the best, you know, she's inspired me, she's lifted me. And although she was talking to basically a room full of um peri- or post-menopausal women, she even inspired the 22-year-old whose life is just getting going. So I've got a copy of her book here. It is called Namaste Motherfucker. Um, so that we've we've all made a pledge that whenever we see the book in the bookshop, uh, we're going to put it in the bookshop window, uh, just because it's highly inappropriate, and that's the kind of thing that we do when we're in our midlife. We don't care anymore.

Gen X Midlife Rebellion

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Um, so I'll talk a little bit uh more in a moment about why she inspired me, but it she really um said something that that got me thinking because I'd seen obviously you'd been to your rave, we've done a couple of episodes now about different life stages, and she basically just said, you know, that there is a whole generation of Gen X women who are saying no more to keeping it small, staying silent, putting everybody else's needs, and it's almost like no other generation en masse has ever done this before, and they're turning round in that midlife and just saying, No, I'm doing the things I've always dreamed of doing, and it doesn't mean a life pivot, sometimes it's taking up that hobby, or it's just saying no to being the bloody servant at home, um, and it was just really, really inspiring, but it also got me thinking about you um hitting that uh midlife stage, and then also over the weekends, I watched the Kylie documentary and saw just how many lifetimes she's lived, and then there's Madonna on stage uh with Sabrina Carpenter, and one of my dear favourite authors, Edith Eager, passed just a couple of weeks ago, and she is another woman who is phenomenal, her books are amazing. Um, go get the choice, but the but she passed, but she completely changed her life in her 40s, re-educated, and became a world-renowned therapist, and then went on to be an author in her 70s. And it's just like, we are really just getting started. So over to you. Go on, does any of that resonate with you?

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Because I know there's a lot going on for you right now. Yeah, it all resonates, every single word you've said, so thank you. And it's really great to hear about someone becoming an author in their 70s because you know, like I've got this book and I have been I keep, you know, like I go back to it every now and then and it's still not be still not, you know, out in the public domain. And then I just think maybe it's just not the right time or whatever, but it doesn't really matter. Like the idea of becoming an author in your 70s is just awesome, and it gives me permission to just take some space, take some breath, do other things, come back to it, you know, like it it's like who says it has to happen now. I don't, you know, and I think we get into that sense of urgency. If if it's not happening now, it's never gonna happen, and that's just stuff to keep us like in the on the hamster wheel. And I think as we're waking up and we're sort of looking at life and we're looking at the systems and patriarchy, we're like not not playing those rules anymore, and I definitely concur with that.

Dropping The Harmoniser Role

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Some things I am noticing in myself is that I've always been the harmoniser. I've all I am a grounded balance type person, but I can get off balance quite quickly and then come back again. But I have noticed that pressure to know what people are sensing, know how people are feeling, and then to sort of intercede and um make things okay actually is one of the biggest it's a gift, it's also a curse. And I'm realizing that I interfere in stuff and I just need to step back and just be like, actually, no, I let them work this, let them work it out themselves, let them work through it, you know. Like, why am I holding so much in the dynamics? And I think dynamics are the things that really exhaust me because I'm trying I can see stuff before it's gonna happen, so I'm trying to get in there to sort of make everything smooth and the harmonizing piece. And I feel like women have been told they need to harmonise, and it's one of those things again, and it's like actually, we also need to challenge, and I think that's what we're doing in this phase. We're saying, No, I'm challenging that, I'm challenging that, I'm challenging that. We're being difficult, we're saying no, we're standing up, we're saying we can see what's happening, we can see the patterns, and we are not continuing in this way, and so I'm seeing that, and I've got a lot of work to do personally.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

That's really fascinating. I think um I can only speak of my own experience because my whole fine family dynamics were harmony. Um, we I don't ever remember shout out loud stand-up arguments, but I had an older brother, and me and him, we would have arguments, and um and often my mum would just would just let us carry on. I do remember her chasing us up the road with a broom once because I think we got out of hand, um, and she'd obviously just snapped. But by and large large, I think I learned to how to resolve stuff um with me and my brother because actually we would have a proper ding-dong, and then five minutes later we were playing. And I see that with my own daughters, and I purposely don't intervene, but I do remember um with my ex-husband when I went to his house, like very on early when we were dating, excuse me. Um that's the impact of that. Yeah, exactly. Still there in your throat. Yeah, he's like um, yeah, anyway. His family were the explosive, almost like Italian, like, you know, get it all out there. And I remember feeling so unsettled uh because I would just wasn't used to it. And I actually, rather than harmonising, I actually just ran away. I went and like hid myself in the bedroom because I can't deal with this. So I do think there's absolutely some truth there that either we try and smooth it over because it's so uncomfortable, um, or yeah, we we just harmonise, um, runaway, harmonise, fight, flight, freeze, isn't it? All that stuff. Yeah. So good for you for stepping into

Joy Foreboding And Feeling Fully

SPEAKER_01 8:32

that.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

There's definitely something else that I'm also noticing, and it's this like a not not apologizing for my own joy or my own happiness. Because for me, it feels like it's a general feeling of happiness that sort of starts to bubble, and it's it's like a bubble that comes up, a little bit like a you know, a strong emotion, like can kind of come up, and you you feel something coming and you go, Oh, and then there's a courage to sort of like allow that to sort of get bigger and bigger and bigger. Well, is that what Bret Brene Brown calls joy foreboding? Yes, and she's been talking about it too. So I saw her pop on my socials, and I really recognise it because I feel like there is this pattern in myself and in other women, and I see it in the coach and the like, but I but I shouldn't feel sad and I shouldn't feel happy. I shouldn't, you know, like it's almost like they have to be like in the middle somewhere, and they're not really allowed to have these strong emotions because they get guilty, and they're like, I've got nothing to complain about. I'm so much further ahead than you know, people in my family or people back home or whatever it might be, and I've come so far, and there's this like I've got enough I've you know, I I don't deserve to be happy, joyous. I also don't deserve to be Wow, where the hell does that come from? That's crazy, isn't it? And it's this middle road thing again that sort of sits somewhere in the middle where it's like flatlining, it's much more in the male domain, I would say. Whereas I think women are much more like I'm not saying that men don't have this because they do, but that it's been so programmed out of them. Whereas as women, because we have our cycles and and our energy and our emotions are shifting all the time, it's like we actually do have the extremes, and if we don't allow ourselves to go into either of the extremes, like if I don't allow myself to feel deeply sad, hopeless in grief, which I do allow, then I'm not gonna be able to hit those high notes, and I'm not gonna be able to have the like the love and the joy fully. So I'm gonna be living somewhere in the middle, which is flatline, it's like mundane, and it's the groundhog day, and there's no there's no like highs and there's no lows, and I think this is really, really unhealthy for us, and I see it in my coaching, and I see it when I'm working with women and the things that they say, and I'm like, this is an emotion, and it's got a message. What is the emotion trying to tell you? Just like feel it.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

There's something there about you know the playing it safe, uh, because uh I certainly got these messages that any woman who was a bit wild or a bit too emotional was um yeah, overly emotional, she was a little bit mad, a bit hysterical, crazy old lady. Do you think it's part of that that actually we have to try and stay composed because we can't be too frivolous, we can't be too emotional, we can't be too weird, we've got to stay compliant.

SPEAKER_00 11:09

I think so, and I think women got locked up, you know. So, like women did absolutely not for long about. We know you had someone in your family, you know, that did get locked up and they never came out. So 100% this is like really, really old programming, and we have to sort of like look at it and say, actually, this is insane. It first and foremost, what happened to women is so incredibly wrong. And there should be like there should be like something bigger to recognise what's happened for women. I think us talking about on a podcast is one thing, and that's important, but actually this was a societal thing and it was a cultural thing, and now we're saying no to that, and we are allowing ourselves to feel our emotions, you know, and it does go back to the witch trials as well. Like, if you you can trace all of this stuff back, as soon as a woman gets in contact with her feelings, her no, then all of a sudden there's a revolt that can happen, and we are saying that it's time to sort of you know to step into that power that we have and that autonomy and that agency. I feel like the it there's just something that's a program in, and I I think I've reached a place where I'm I'm I'm done with it and I'm gonna have to keep an eye on it because it's been there a long time, but I just I just want to have my emotions fully, I want to have my life fully, and I've just decided that I'm not going to let anything take away my sense of inner peace and my happiness, and if that goes into joy, an even bigger expression, brilliant. But I I want to feel happy, happy in my everyday life, and if I'm doing something, I want to enjoy it. And what's so radical about that, you know? And Brendan Brown does agree, she says that joy is one of the hardest emotions to cultivate because if we go from joy, the fall from joy, I don't think she says it in this way, but this is how I see it the fall back down to despair is so great that it's actually really difficult. So we're in a high state of joy and then we go straight into despair, like we don't know where we are, but I've actually lived like that quite successfully.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

So I actually don't think I go from joy to despair, I don't think it's a pendulum swing uh swing like that. I think I can go from joy to just normal, just content, just like it doesn't have to be like that swing. I think maybe if you've got a certain personality or like um disposition for it, yes, it can be, but I have no mania in me in that sense, so yeah, I can feel really sad, but then flatline again, and then I can or baseline, should I say, and then I can be really happy. Um, yeah, so I it's interesting. I have to just tell you a conversation that I had with my mum just literally half an hour ago, and we're going to um a uh wedding in a couple of weeks, and one of the hens um went over somewhere abroad for a weekend and obviously posted all of the pictures, and my mum said, Oh, they were acting like they were teenagers, but they're well into their 40s now. I was like, What on earth were they doing? And she says, Well, they were lining up shots and they were like on this bucking bronco. I just looked at her, I was like, To be honest, mum, that's what me and my friends are like when we go out, and so is this conditioning that actually that's okay for you when you're a child, but now you're a woman, you mustn't behave too extreme or too loud or have too much fun. And and I think again, I've always been like, What the hell? But um, now I'm like challenging and I'm saying, why? Why shouldn't women in their 40s and 50s go out with their girly friends and have the best time? There's no shame in it, they're not doing anything naughty or bad or gonna get themselves arrested. So that's there's definitely a generational thing that maybe we are becoming more aware of, which is why Callie Beaton was saying, you know, there's something about the women of our generation where we're saying, No, yeah, we're entitled to this.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

I think we're actually we're cultivating it, but we're also seeking it out all of a sudden. And I think that's really, really important to sort of notice and mention and say, you know, like it's important that we can feel all our feelings, and I think there is the fear, I think it's a saboteur-based fear that says if you go too high up or you go, if you're too happy, you could lose everything. So I think that fear is very saboteur programmed. However, it's not true, and actually, if we allow ourselves to feel and if we allow ourselves to open and to go for the things that we want, and then allow ourselves like it's it's like allow ourselves to feel it and feel the act of courage and the just the sheer like devotion to ourselves and to our own feelings. Oh my god, we build something, and I've been doing this, you know, for this year really has been about this for me, but it's it's definitely getting stronger and stronger and stronger, and it feels more natural now, you know, to be in a state of happiness and to be like looking for like you know, glimmers and magical moments, and like it's become part of my life, it's become part of my day, and I and I I have no apology for that, and I'm I'm wanting more and I'm seeking more, and and it does come in small things sometimes as well. Like it's just a feeling of like coming back in and being like, Oh my god, I really enjoy I'm really enjoying myself, like this is so much fun, and it doesn't have to be like whooping fun, it's just more of a like being present in myself and allowing myself to have experiences and not feeling any guilt or shame around it, like that stuff. I'm not saying it's fully gone, but I'm definitely getting to the point where I'm like skipping, I feel like I'm skipping out the door. Whereas before I'd be sort of like slinking out of the door, um, and then I'd be sort of thinking about what was going on when I wasn't there, like is everybody okay? And and that is definitely like I feel like the door is not fully closed, but it's closing because it's not my responsibility. I'm there, it's just not my responsibility, and actually I'm not needed in the same way that I was needed, you know, before. I'm needed much less, and it's better when I'm out of the house, and it's better when I'm like doing things for me and I come back.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Everybody's happier, so this is all like I I think just to re uh reflect back a little bit. I think there's something for you with having a young child that where you've been stuck in that for the last six, seven, eight years. Yeah, whereas I think a lot of women who are in their 40s and 50s actually have either no children or older children have already left, and so I think maybe what we're seeing is you're now reclaiming it and saying, actually, I don't need you know, my child doesn't need me constantly. Whereas for me, actually, it's probably about 10-15 years ago since they needed me that much, and then I've got other friends who are um five, six, seven years older than me whose kids already left, and I think it's at that stage something really shifts. It's like actually, if I'm not tied to the home to be that carer of everybody, what's possible for me? And I think that's something that I'm seeing so much more now. That actually, if I want to go on holiday, I'll just go on holiday, or if I want to um you know join that class, I'll do if I want to write a freaking book, I'll do it. If I want to start a podcast, I'll do it. And I think that's the energy that I'm seeing loads at the moment. And with Callie's story, she was actually one of them, you know, vice president of a major TV network. I mean, she was at the top of her career, and usually, well, pretty much always, the only woman in there, and she reflects back on her life about how she had to man up to be taken seriously, but equally, how uh at around the age of 50, as her kids were in their you know, later teen years, she was like, Do you know what? I'm gonna have a go at stand-up comed uh comedy. I mean, that's a big risk, isn't it? But she was like, But what's the worst that can happen? I'm rubbish, and it's that kind of attitude, and what I'm hearing is like, what's the worst that can happen? Is that mindset that you can now shut the door on your family? What's the worst that can happen? They can have an argument, well, they can sort it out themselves. What's the worst that can happen? That I can go to a little small club um and do a few jokes to a really small room. For me, what's the worst that can happen? I start doing Instagram lives and I start talking, and somebody doesn't like it. So what I don't know them, and this this bit of confidence that I see that's coming through women of a certain age, and I'm just really excited to explore what what is it about this age? What is it about women in this midlife that is just saying basically fuck it.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

And it it's going from what if to so what? Oh yes, I like that what if that happens, but you know, so what? It doesn't matter, does it, in the grand scheme of it? And I think the things that we fear happening, you know, sometimes those things do come true and they do happen, and you know what? We grow, we grow, we evolve, we try something different. Like we're all still here telling stories, and we're all still like we've all still got such rich and deep lives, and we've all done so much by this point and experienced so much, and we've got so many similarities, like it doesn't matter. I I just think living life to you know the best that we can possibly make it every single day. For me, that is the act of grace that we can give ourselves, and so what if it doesn't go to plan? And actually, isn't always that generally that is part of the journey anyway.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

And the gifts come then because um when you do reach whatever that success moment looks like for you, it's even sweeter because it hasn't been easy and it hasn't been linear. You you know, you've had some twists and turns along the way, so you you savour it even more. So yeah, we we actually want it to be a bit of a journey.

Reinvention On Your Own Terms

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Um so where have you seen this kind of reinvention, not just in yourself but in others? Where are you where else are you noticing it?

SPEAKER_00 20:37

That's a good question. I feel like it often starts with a seed of discontent. So that feeling of discontent is the sort of it's actually a gift to us. You know, when we start to get like it's not really it, is it? You know, like there's got to be more. So that's what I see. And when that seed starts to like grow, we can either go, I am so disillusioned. You know, I think the workplace is having a major, like a major overhaul right now. The way that you know women want to do their work, um, the way they want to plug themselves back in, the way they want to feel happy and valued at the same time, like it's a two-way street. I think is a we've got a huge shifts coming, and I feel like we're on the sort of like we're we're on a bit of a high sort of like the waves are coming and it's it's a lot at the moment. But I do feel I do trust that we'll be able to pave you know new ways that are going to feel much better for everybody. So I think that's where I'm seeing the changes the most is in the workplace and that like disillusion, waking up, um, seeking clarity and thinking, you know, like how can I do this on my own terms? That's the movement of that I'm seeing.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Yeah, I think on my own terms is definitely a theme that I see coming up, and one of my uh oldest friends, um she she Gave up a lot to raise her two children. Um she had been looking at the management track um in her career and then ended up becoming a single mum when her youngest was just two. And so she ended up having to actually work just days and she ended up being a barmaid, she then became a cleaner just to be able to pay the bills, but also you know, be there for the the drop-offs and pickups and stuff. Um, and actually last year she decided actually, why am I working for somebody else? Why don't I set up my own cleaning business? Now, within a year, she employs six different individuals, she's never earned so much money, she can work less and do more of the back to the management stuff that she always wanted. And I'm just like, why didn't you do this years ago? And she said, I didn't think I was allowed or I didn't back myself, and now I'm like, why not? So what those kind of words? So there's definitely something that happens where we just either have that seed of discontent or this nagging that it's almost like time's running out, if not now, when and I definitely have that feeling when I'm thinking, okay, 50 next year for me, I'm at proper midlife point. Um, how do I want this next 10, 20, hopefully 30 years when I'm going to be still active and compass mentors? How do I want it to be? And actually, I've realised there is so much I haven't done. Um, even like my friend had um been to Istanbul and it was also on race across the world, and I just like I've always wanted to go to Istanbul, and now I'm just like, what's stopping me? So that's it. I'm just like that's part of that reinvention. Actually, there is nothing stopping me other than me.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

And it is that dreaming piece, isn't it, that we've been talking so much about, you know, like I know that there was this picture, I keep talking about it, but it has driven me this year in a really great way of this woman at a table with a big dress on, eating pasta, like, and it was like really indulgent.

Dreaming Into Action And Closing

SPEAKER_00 24:09

This picture, and I looked at this woman and I thought, I want to be her. I want to be sat at that table. It was definitely Italy, you know. The whole thing, it was the whole vibe of it, and I was like, I bet she's got servants, like um, waiters running around after her and like looking after her every single whim at this table, and it was just this moment of pure joy. She's not worrying about what she's eating, she's just in the moment, hungry for the pasta. And then I looked at it and I thought, I don't think I'm gonna be able to do that. And oh my god, have I done that already this year? I have. I've done it in my own home, in my pajamas, eating this pasta and feeling like a queen, and it was like I can if I can do that at home, I can do that anywhere. And we are flying to Parma on Monday, um, three days, you know, myself and my husband, no kids, no dog, and we're just and I'm gonna eat pasta. I'm gonna eat as much pasta as I can possibly eat. Good, and I'm gonna enjoy it. And it's like we couldn't do Italy because we couldn't have we didn't have enough time to do Italy, but I'm doing Parma instead, and it's like it doesn't matter. This is about I have a vision for myself, it's the feeling of the vision, and I'm going for that feeling, and I will take every opportunity to feel it because if we feel it, if we can feel it in like everyday moments, starts to become more of a normal pattern, and our systems reshape, and it actually are we can reshape ourselves quite quickly as long as we can be determined enough to hold ourselves, to hold the practices that work for us, and to keep doing it and be solid with ourselves and show up for ourselves every day. If we do that, we will re we will reshift ourselves and we will create a new pattern, and that new pattern will be the norm, but we have to keep doing it, and we have to do it every single day, and that's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

I uh I bought my um my youngest uh a picture um just with some I got them all ones with funny quotes on for Christmas this year, and one of them was just buy the damn shoes, and it's that kind of philosophy that I've I've always had that philosophy myself, but I haven't always lived it fully. Um, but with her, she she absolutely loves uh her um canvas pumps, and she's got one in like four or five different colours, so that's why I bought it. But actually, I said to her, if they give you joy, buy them. You know, you earn your your money while you've got it, just enjoy. And and I think that's the lesson that I'm taking into the next decade and beyond for me. Uh, inspired by you, inspired by Callie Beaton. Um, the just buy the damn shoes.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Yeah, and how can you apply that? Like, my question to you is like, you know, you've you've got another sort of year before you get to this turning point. So you've got a whole cultivation year, so you can start now, you can start in this moment. Like, what is the thing that you're going to say, right? That's that's my action, this is my thing.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Oh, well, already, um I and I even sent you a little um screenshot. Um, I'm going to spend the summer reading. Um, that is my thing because um at the moment I do lots of audiobooks when I do my dog walk or when I'm in the car, but when I'm at home, I don't because I'm always thinking, oh, there's this job, there's that job, I should do this, I should do that. But but actually over the last week I've started untraining myself and I get to, I choose to sit outside or on my sofa, wherever, and just read and travel in my mind and plan and get inspired. Because for me, that is an act of revolution because I used to do it all the time until I had children, and then I had to, it was like my luxury, and actually now I just want it to be my way of life. So that's one of the first acts. It's almost like I put the key in the door, and bit by bit I'm gonna unturn it, and then the next thing will be me planning three weeks in Italy or in Turkey or wherever I want to go with a load of books, sitting wherever, doing an adventure because it this is like the stepping stone. So I have I'm already dreaming up lots and it's really exciting. But you've got to go pack for Palmer. So I'm gonna ask you, why don't you wrap up this conversation?

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Oh, it's such a nice conversation, and I never want to wrap up, I just want to keep talking and talking until I'd send myself to sleep. Um, but that's not that's not a choice today. So, yeah, I just really want to say whatever wherever you are in your life, whatever you're um struggling with, whatever dream you have, give yourself some moments just to cultivate, find the things that take you closer to it, whether it's a book about a certain place or whether it's you know a certain type of food, just indulge yourself and allow those feelings to cultivate and know that you are worthy, you can create whatever you want to create in your life, and that you hold, like you said, the key. So get that key, stick it in the dream, and unlock that door and keep going until you find yourself in Istanbul or Italy or Parma or wherever your heart's desires, and never ever give up on yourself or your dreams. Until next time, keep saying it, sister.