Leadership In Law Podcast

S02E76 Building a Profitable Firm in a Crowded Market with Nick Spetsas & Charles Buist

• Marilyn Jenkins • Season 2 • Episode 76

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What does it take to build a thriving law firm from scratch in one of America's most competitive legal markets? For Nick Spetsas and Charles Buist, the journey began with a friendship in law school that evolved into a powerful business partnership built on shared values and complementary strengths.

Starting with just a $40,000 line of credit in Orlando's saturated personal injury market, they faced what seemed like insurmountable odds. But their strategic approach to digital marketing and unwavering commitment to client service quickly set them apart from established competitors.

Charles and his partners share honest insights on what works in legal marketing today. Instead of broad branding, they focus on direct response, utilizing SEO, videos, and streaming TV to target niche areas such as negligent security and dental malpractice with their "bowling pin" strategy. 

What sets them apart is their real focus on client relationships. Nick shares that his defense experience revealed a lack of personal service in plaintiff firms. While others employed assembly-line practices, Spetsas Buist built its reputation on being accessible and providing clients with personal attention. 

Their journey hasn't been without challenges, particularly in managing cash flow with contingency cases. Yet their strategic focus and commitment to understanding every aspect of their business, from operations to accounting to marketing, have enabled them to thrive where many others struggle.

Reach Nick and Charles here:

https://spetsasbuist.com/



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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Leadership in Law podcast with host Marilyn Jenkins. Cut through the noise, get actionable insights and inspiring stories delivered straight to your ears your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership. In each episode, we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you, from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team. We connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who share their proven strategies and hard-won wisdom. So, whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. I'm your host, marilyn Jenkins. Please join me in welcoming my guests, nick Spetsis and Charles Deuce, to the show today. Nick and Charles are partners at Sipsis Deuce, a personal injury law firm in Orlando, florida. Both have been selected for Super Lawyers, rising Stars, national Trial Lawyers, top 40 Under 40, and Million Dollar Advocates Forum. I'm excited to have you here, guys, Welcome.

Speaker 3:

Thanks for having us, marilyn, thanks for having us. This is exciting.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I'm excited to hear how you guys went from college athletes to personal injury attorneys in Orlando.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, well, I mean I'll start it off because Charles is going to have a lot to say today about the technology and the marketing part here. But we actually met first day in law school at University of South Carolina and from there kind of just became best friends and it's transformed into a brotherhood and we're actually roommates. Funny enough, our last year in law school, charles had a large one bedroom. I lived in the living room and Charles lived in the bedroom, so I got to learn his outstanding techniques for studying and his work ethic from there. It's incredible. So we've known each other since 2013.

Speaker 2:

Wow, very, very cool. And what was your journey? Tell us a bit about how did you guys come together. I mean, 2013 was law school. What did you do after that? Where did you go?

Speaker 4:

So we always knew we were going to do this right.

Speaker 4:

And it came along, it was about 2021. And I've got a really close mentor that it's kind of guided me through my entire legal career, my entire legal career. And I found out my wife's going to have our first child and I had a conversation with him. He said look, charles, you got a great business mind you need to start your own business. But once that kid gets a little bit older and once you have another kid, you're not going to want to do this right, it's going to be a really serious journey. The time is now and you got to take that step. So I was.

Speaker 4:

I was pondering all this stuff and my wife and I were thinking about moving to the Orlando area. So I called up Nick said hey, you know, we're thinking about coming down there. Love to raise a family in that area. I love Disney, star Wars, all that kind of stuff kind of a geek on all that. And I told Nick I said, look, we need to start our own firm. And he said, hey, we got two options. Ok, I'm working at this great firm. My boss would love you Think about working here and we'll also talk about opening up a firm. So, to get the ball rolling, I talked to the folks at his firm incredible firm, some of the smartest people I've ever talked to, some of the best people I've ever talked to, charismatic people, rare combination of people there and we kind of got down the line of Charles, you're going to come to work here.

Speaker 4:

And I think I called Nick up on a Friday and I said look, I think we're at a fork in the road here. Either I'm going to come work with you, we're going to work on the defense side, or we're going to start this business. But I feel like this is kind of our last shot at it, because once this kid gets a little bit older, my mentor is telling me there's no way in the world I'm going to take this risk. And I said, hey, man, take the weekend, think about it. You know I'm leaning towards let's do this thing. We've been talking about it since 2013. Let's go.

Speaker 4:

But I want to know if there's any obstacles we can't overcome. So I told him I said, look, you know the area better than I do. If you have any hesitations at all, let's talk about it. But I said, no matter when we do this, the people we're going to have to be will be totally different than the people we have to be as an employee. We're going to have to go through this painful roof, no matter when we take this step, whether we take it now in our 30s, or whether we take it in our 40s or our 50s, that pain, there's no avoiding it, right? And so Nick called me back I think it was Sunday night or so and he said, look, you know, I thought about it. I honestly don't think there's any obstacles we can't overcome. Let's do it. So that was kind of the impetus.

Speaker 2:

We said all right, let's go and that was when we decided Wow. So you had like, say, seven or eight years experience in other firms and then came together in 2022 to do this and that sounds great. Now I do know that you guys are in an incredibly competitive market. So, to hit the ground running, to be profitable in less than two years, what are you doing? What did you do that made you feel, made the biggest impact of your growth?

Speaker 3:

Well, I defer to Charles on this because he truly is, and I'll let Charles tell his story about digital marketing. But you know a lot of speaking from experience. You know I was on the defense side, so I was an insurance defense attorney handling some dealing with some of the largest companies in the entire world, defending them and their insurance companies. But you know my, you know our big thing was with digital marketing to start, and again Charles will go into into that. But you know we, we looked around, I looked around and and you know from my perspective what I thought and what Charles agreed with and kind of the business plan that we went with or the model that we went with was was true customer service first. I remember being a defense attorney or I should say client service true customer service first.

Speaker 3:

I remember being a defense attorney, or I should say client service, but customer service focused the law firm on getting that message out and sticking to it as tried and true as possible. But I remember being a defense attorney and I'd be in mediations and plaintiffs would have never met their attorney, didn't know their name and in a market like this you know, probably the most competitive personal injury market in the United States, if not definitely top five, but probably the number one most competitive. That was kind of our foundation. But in terms of capturing those, you know I'll let Charles talk about it. But we started with digital marketing and the one thing that I saw that we quickly learned when we started the firm was that there's a lot of attorneys out there that rely solely on referrals from medical providers and we did not want to have that foundation. We wanted to be able to capture organic leads. But I'll turn it over to Charles on how we captured those organic leads.

Speaker 2:

Well, I just want to touch really quickly. Charles, definitely want to hear that, but going with the customer relations first is amazing. I cannot believe that people get all the way through an initiation without ever actually meeting with their attorney. And as convenient as Zoom is, that just seems ridiculous. You know, and you guys are seeing people on their worst day and helping them through, you know, a crisis, so I just couldn't imagine not actually knowing the person that was going to hold your hand through that. So kudos for you guys actually putting that front and center as part of your culture and part of the company. That's excellent. So, charles, yes, tell us. Obviously, digital marketing is close to my heart, so I'd love to hear what you did to be to build your firm up.

Speaker 4:

Good, yeah, you know, I did some research on you. You've got some great content out there. I love all the stuff you're saying. I mean you're not leading people wrong, that's for sure. You're definitely giving them some good advice. Finding people that are willing to take that step and take your advice, I'm sure that's that's a challenge. Sometimes a lot of people don't believe in it.

Speaker 4:

But yeah, you know, nick touched on a lot of things and, starting out, you don't have a brand right, so you really have to aim at direct response marketing. Brand awareness is not there. You don't have the money, you don't have the brand figured out. So for us, starting out, it was where can we put our money and get the best ROI in terms of direct response? So we didn't go after brand awareness. We didn't start throwing out Facebook ads and we didn't start getting billboards or any of that. We didn't have the money to do that one. But number two, that's a long-term play and when you need money right now, brand awareness is not the way to go. So we really focused on SEO.

Speaker 4:

2022, 2023 were very different years than right now for SEO, at least in my opinion. I've been doing this stuff since about 08, 09, pre-pingolin update. Things have changed so much, but I feel like 2022 and 2023 just worked out for us because everything that I knew and the tried and true SEO methods everything came together. So we really had to define those niche market areas where we're going to go after cases and I love Jeffrey Moore's book Crossing the Chasm Seth Godin talks about it in Purple Cow but using that bowling pin model right. So you're going after that one well-defined specific market and then you move into adjacent markets.

Speaker 4:

For us, really negligent security was a big part of that. It's not a heavily marketed area of law. There's a lot of value in those cases. They're really exciting to work. The jury's on your side. Nobody likes a slum being in their neighborhood. It reduces the value of all the houses around it, all the businesses around it. You don't want your kids riding their bike by it. So that was a really good bowling pin for us. Another area that was bowling pin for us was dental malpractice. My dad's an expert witness for dental malpractice cases. I grew up assisting him in dentistry and so I knew there were a couple of areas that people just weren't targeting and I knew the value of those cases because I'd worked with a dental malpractice attorney before, and so our strategy really in the digital space considering we had no money but a lot of time was to for me really to put that effort into SEO and focus on those long tail keywords, doing tons and tons of keyword research and finding out which pieces of content are most likely to convert into a case.

Speaker 2:

And I love that you chose to, instead of just saying I'm a car accident attorney, which you know, the default everybody wants that they want a motorcycle accident or commercial truck. I love that you chose something that you could find those long tail keywords and actually dive into. Did you do service in city pages on your website as well?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, we used, we did all of that stuff Absolutely. We were really heavy on our Google my Business profile later Google Business. Everybody still calls it Google my Business. It was great Really focusing on that. Again, all these techniques aren't as great as they used to be, but starting out, you know, just to kind of give you that roadmap, seo was everything starting out, not just written content, but tons and tons of YouTube content, video. I know that it doesn't matter how much money these attorneys have, you can't pay someone to be you on video and so I knew that that was an area where we could compete. And using that video to drive traffic to our website and even drive direct conversions was a great technique for us, and organic content on TikTok converted really well, I heard mixed messages about attorneys on TikTok what it's coming from, because it's still the business to consume.

Speaker 2:

You're not selling a thing, so TikTok worked well for you.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, and it's tough. Sometimes you've got to ask people two or three times well, where did you really find us? I know you're saying Google, but was there something else I've come to find? Out a handful of really good cases came from TikTok which was crazy.

Speaker 4:

And then when we started spending money, it just so happened to be the time when Google LSAs kicked off right, and now it's just like I'm getting yeah, I don't use them anymore because I'm getting calls for family law, like everything else. They changed Google local services ads, but right when it came out, we were some of the first ones in.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's become something. That's completely when they rolled their AI into it. They're now charging. If you stay on the phone 30 minutes, you can't get your charge for that link, whether it's qualified or not.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, it's just ridiculous. But local services ads is where we got the big case. Everybody needs that big case starting out. And we got a wrongful death case and I won't go into the specifics of it. It's a case that a lot of people had turned down and we took the case, defeated a motion to dismiss, and that was what kicked us off really as a firm. That was when we had stability.

Speaker 2:

That's okay. That's a great testament to digital marketing. Whether it's LSAs or SEO, your big case came from you being out there and taking care of business.

Speaker 1:

Nice.

Speaker 2:

So I know that okay. So we've just did clarifies for our listeners, the service and city pages. We do that for our clients, we do that for ourselves and our own website and it's something that helps you get that long-term keyword for a neighborhood or a you know especially if, and that way you get, you know, a negligent security attorney in pick a small neighborhood. So you do those for the area of Orlando Do, you do neighborhoods as well, and so your website is constantly growing. So, Google search console is very important as well.

Speaker 4:

Yes, when I say I do different things are done At our firm. The way we've approached SEO is I'm constantly watching what's working best, right. There was about a six-month period where, yes, services and city pages targeting neighborhoods, all these things was just absolutely killing it for me and I was making as many of those pages as I could and I was getting calls for those cases. It was helping our local map ranking. It was working really really well, that kind of tailed back off.

Speaker 4:

I keep up with everything and I'm at a point right now where you asked me what exactly do I do in SEO? I would just have to say everything. I'm sure you're more of an expert than I am, but the reality is there were times where it was really clear what type of content we needed to be creating and paying others to create, and there was a time when making neighborhood based content was really really hit for us. I'll say it was probably about a year or 18 months ago. That was working really really well. The problem is, as soon as someone figures something out in Orlando, it's just swamped right. Yeah, but yeah, to answer your question, that was.

Speaker 2:

That was a fantastic technique there for a while yeah, I mean again, as you're in that, that huge competition and you know it used to be when you talked about the penguin upgrade and that kind of thing there was. They do one big. You know google do big update. Now they're doing an update every week or so. I mean there's just so much that's changing and we're seeing problems or issues with Google business profiles. Right now, just by adding a service category is getting some Google business profiles delisted and they have to go back and re-verify. So I mean it's almost and I don't know if that plays in part of them bringing in the AI and now they've given it too much authority. But when you change it, you just add a category to your you know, to your services. Why would that de-list you with that? And the last week or two we're seeing that and it's growing. So it's crazy.

Speaker 4:

It's a constant battle right and it's stressful and it's annoying and you have to do it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean you. You can't not when, when your Google business profile starts getting traction now and talking about the Google business profile, I do a lot of teaching on that Do you do posts to keep a new content on it? Now that the posts are lasting longer?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, and I've. I've tried everything from trying to do two, three, four a day to, you know, doing it once a month. I don't know where that sweet spot is. I bet you do.

Speaker 2:

We're doing two a week right now and that's getting more. It's just. It's kind of a thing about giving Google what they like you know engagement. But I don't think once a month is good, three a day. We found a good sweet spot at two a week.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, and I was going to say for me I found that one a week is sufficient. Ideally I'd get, like you said, two or three out a week. Really, for me, where I'm seeing the difference is if we can get those posts out and get reviews. It tends to do better than either one alone. But I know you're probably really pushing your clients hey, get those reviews, especially being a smaller firm, I mean you can go to these big firms.

Speaker 4:

It'll say you know all these hundreds, thousands of positive reviews and you click bad reviews and there's there's a bunch of them and it usually has something to do with client communication or something that stems from the bonus structure. You know, if you settle this many cases a month or if you get in this much money a month, we're going to give you a bonus. Well, if you got a $200,000 case and you need $30,000 more to meet your bonus and the defense is offering you $50,000, you know it creates kind of a perverse incentive there. So you see all these firms that you're competing with as a small, medium-sized firm and you see all these reviews. But you got to think a couple of people are going to click on there and go. You know what I don't like these bad reviews. I'm going to keep looking and the more reviews you have, the better chance you're going to be that second or third fur in line.

Speaker 4:

Right, you may not have a million dollar a year budget like these folks. But if you can, if you can put that extra effort and that time into each one of your clients and get that review and show people, hey, we're doing the best we can out here to make sure that everybody's happy. And then you get that great case where they're looking at that other firm and they go yeah, I made five stars, but then when you click the lowest and you start reading that stuff, maybe it scares you away.

Speaker 2:

I would say and I take those into consideration because this is a huge thing that you're doing for someone. They want to know what is the bad stuff. They make a decision on all of that and we can blame Amazon for that. Amazon has taught us for years to read the reviews, yeah right.

Speaker 4:

So the way to make a fast decision? I mean, we're all just trying to figure out which stapler to buy within a couple of minutes rather than spending hours looking at staplers. So you're looking at the reviews, right? What kind of can do?

Speaker 3:

that.

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

And at least that you can, you can send back immediately with you know a lot of people when they hire an attorney, right, I mean, they're not even aware that, yes, you can get out of that with your attorney, go to a new firm, but then they have to deal with charging liens from the other, from the prior firm. You know what I mean. So there's a lot, there's a lot that goes into it as well when they're looking at these reviews. Thank you for Amazon.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I agree. Like I said, I think Amazon trained us to look at all of that you know, so that makes a big difference. Is it part of your process in your customer service to ask for reviews more than one time at the end of the case?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean best case scenario. I mean we have we're very blessed here and not to, you know, toot our own horn, but we do have a lot, a lot of clients that offer to do reviews at the end at the end of cases.

Speaker 3:

You know, but you know, I understand it's. You know, if some, some clients don't have, for example, gmail accounts, and they'd have to, you know, I mean it's. You know, if some some clients don't have, for example, gmail accounts, so then they'd have to. You know I mean there's other review sources as well, but, for example, the google that was focusing on the google, my business. You know there's some that have hotmail accounts and they don't have a google account.

Speaker 3:

So it's tough, but typically, you know, we usually have to ask one time. Sometimes it does slip away from people but I think you know, or like slips off their mind like oh yeah, I told him I'd do a review and we'll follow up. But you know, we've been pretty, pretty fortunate over here with with having to ask maybe one time or the client offers to write a review I mean our goal are, in best case scenario, every client that we, that we have offers to do a review right Cause they had such a great experience at the firm.

Speaker 3:

We got them the compensation that they feel like they deserve and we met their. We surpassed their expectations, right, that's, that's, that's our, our shoot for the stars, you know, goal.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and that's we. We coach our clients to put it in your process to ask at least three times. You know and you know goal yeah, and that's we. We coach our clients to put it in your process to ask at least three times. You know and you know, and just you know. Obviously, double check yourself that they did before you ask them the second time, because that's not going to make anybody happy.

Speaker 1:

They're like I did.

Speaker 2:

What do you want? So very cool. I love to hear what you're doing. You're doing everything that we coach people to do over here and do for our clients, the ones who can't do it themselves. I understand that you're doing. One of our newer services, a newer platform, is streaming TV ads.

Speaker 4:

Yes, yeah, we got started with that as soon as we could. I had trouble getting verified by Disney advertisers, but I guess I annoyed them enough with emails where they finally let me in. I guess I annoyed them enough with emails where they finally got in. So we're running streaming TV ads through Disney and Hulu, as well as through the company's called Vibe, where they kind of shoot it out to a whole bunch of different platforms. Yes, non-skippable ads.

Speaker 2:

We love those Definitely. Wow, that's fantastic. So yeah, and I think that's a new platform that we're offering our clients as well. It's just there's not a lot of talking about it, and I watch Amazon prom video and there's always ads on that and you know, and I don't mind I actually I make note of who's advertising. You know. You just have to look so you know you can see what's going on, and for 30, 15 to 15 to 30 seconds you sit there through it and it's a very good platform.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I think it's a double-edged sword as well, because in my opinion, a lot of attorney video advertising historically is very bland and very cookie cutter. So, charles and I actually I mean I think they're the best law firm ad ever created. But I might be a little bit behind.

Speaker 2:

That's okay. You're supposed to think that.

Speaker 3:

That's right, but I think that was another thing that Charles and I really wanted to do when we did get into the video. Advertising was okay, let's get our message of who we are. How do we stand out differently? And we can back it up for sure, you know, based on how we created this firm, but come out with a message that is far different from you know, what you historically and traditionally see. You know, with an attorney standing in front of their desk, you know.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, a guy in an L frame, yeah, talking about how it would look like for you and and yeah, yeah, yeah, those are the classics, and classic ones we all understand or remember that come to mind.

Speaker 2:

So well, that's excellent Cause I know that's one of the things that we're working with a couple of law firms to do. In that 30 seconds, get your culture across. You know that's going to define you, like you said. You know some of those $50 million budgets are getting really bad reviews because they're mentioning that customer service, and if you want your culture to come across, it's something that you can use as a differentiating factor. I love that and using that, and, of course, people are going to Google you or they'll go to that landing page and so they'll learn more about you from your Google business profile, and it sounds like you guys have spent a lot of time getting all the bases covered. Now a question for you on that Looking at your growth, what was your biggest struggle?

Speaker 3:

I mean I'll start Charles, and then you could take it from there. But I would say, you know, we always say if we started, we started with a $40,000 line of credit, and I said this in another podcast. You quickly learn for a law, a personal injury law, from how little money that is to start this business. You know, had if we, if we, if we wanted to do it over again, we'd want seven figures worth of a budget to start to really hammer everything. Yeah, but for contingency fee, k.

Speaker 3:

You know we, we take every case on contingency fee and I think that that, you know, the biggest struggle is.

Speaker 3:

You know we were very fortunate to capture great cases, but then you have you're working on contingency fee you're not working on, you're not sending a bill out to a client every month.

Speaker 3:

So you really got to hold on, hold on tight and spend, you know, the money that you have to operate with as efficiently as possible while you're trying to get cases settled for maximum value. And then you have also clients, understandably, that are unable to work, that need money, that want you to work quickly, get their case resolved, and then you're dealing with insurance companies that are really jerking you around the whole time. So you know it was a benefit that I had a lot of experience with a lot of prior defense. I knew a lot of defense attorneys here and I knew I worked with pretty much every work for pretty much every major insurance company. So you know, there were some cases. There were a lot of cases we were able to move very, very efficiently. But again, those big cases, those seven figure cases, most of the time they're not just like they're not their letter of representation and then you know, a week later you have a seven figure check on your case.

Speaker 3:

So I think the hardest part in my perspective, from my perspective was you know working, working with that budget and then you know how we allocate. How we allocate that, that operating account or that line of credit, excuse me to, to make sure that not only are we picking up new cases, not only are we properly advocating, you know delegating money to you. We need an expert witness, we need this, we need that. But then also you know really holding on and making sure that that money is being used efficiently until you get that big hit. That kind of serves you.

Speaker 2:

Okay, Cashflow and planning. I love that you know you need to know your numbers and so many people don't know their numbers.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, yeah, done.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly, no-transcript.

Speaker 4:

Well, my wife keeps saying you know when are you going to get your clone. So if you could clone Nick and me a few times, I don't know how far we are from that, but I'll be one of the first to participate.

Speaker 2:

That's cutting edge science. All right, excellent, well, guys, this has been great. What would you want our listeners to have their biggest takeaways from this show?

Speaker 4:

I think they ought to listen to you First of all. If they're considering working with you, I think it's a great idea to work with somebody even smaller. We can teach you as you go who knows their stuff. I mean, it's the same thing as attorneys or accountants. If you've got somebody who's got a small shop and has a limited number of clients and really knows what they're talking about, you're not just going to get the service, you're going to get the education too, and the better you can understand what it is you're paying for, the better you can jump in and help out when the time comes. Because there's, you know, more hands. Make lighter work. Right, if you've got your batch of work and your client understands what's going on and your client can throw in an additional 10%, 20% boost, whether it be content creation or per website monitoring, just technical SEO, keeping things tight, really getting into that creative process and making good content that you can then run for them. I think it's better than just jumping into a big group and saying, hey, you take it all, show me the metrics every month.

Speaker 4:

I think really getting in, if you're you know, if you're a business owner, you really need to understand working. Just like you mentioned books. I hired QuickBooks tutors for two years to make sure I know every single thing that's going on, and then I taught my bookkeepers and my accountants exactly how I want it done. And you need to get that education in every single area, core area of your business. It needs to be that way for operations, bookkeeping, accounting, marketing. You really are the brand in this business. You need to understand what that means and you need to work with somebody that can educate you. So I love what you're doing and I think that if people are sitting on the fence about whether or not to invest in this, that or the other marketing, there's other people who aren't asking that question. They're just throwing the money at it and they're going to outgrow you. So if you don't want to get left in the dirt, especially now, you have to spend the money on the marketing, and the education is just important.

Speaker 2:

I really appreciate that. Yeah, I mean, we don't hide behind the data, behind the numbers, and there's some people that throw too many numbers in the client to still overwhelm them. Our clients are partners with us. We partner with them to help them grow. So I appreciate the kind words. I want to thank you guys for your time and be cognizant of it, respectful of it. If our listeners are probably going to want to reach out to you, and if they're struggling with any of this or begin thinking about starting a firm, where's the best place to connect with you?

Speaker 4:

Email is great. I'm Charles at spetsisbuiscom C-A-J-R-L-E-S. At spetsisbuiscom S-P-E-T-S-A-S-B-U-I-S-Tcom.

Speaker 2:

Perfect, I have the website and the show notes and I'll make sure to put the email addresses in there as well. And, jill, I really appreciate your time. Thank you so much for being on the show today. This has been really exciting to learn more about what you're doing and how you're succeeding.

Speaker 3:

Thank you for having us. We really appreciate it. Yeah, we appreciate you.

Speaker 5:

Thanks for joining me today for this episode. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to lawmarketingzonecom to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, thanks for listening to Leadership in Law Podcast and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. Remember you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success. Head over to our website at lawmarketingzonecom From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources and stay up to date on the latest episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing your firm.

People on this episode

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Marilyn Jenkins

Host