Leadership In Law Podcast

S03E116 The Importance of Referral Marketing with Delisi Friday

• Marilyn Jenkins • Season 3 • Episode 116

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Referrals don’t have to be random. We sit down with legal marketing strategist Delisi Friday to show how law firms can turn trust into a steady pipeline by building real relationships, staying top of mind, and using LinkedIn the way clients and peers actually do. Delisi grew firms from seven to eight figures and learned early that the best cases arrive through people who already believe in your work. She explains why referrals convert better than ads, why former clients are your hidden goldmine, and how a few thoughtful touch points, like a holiday photo event or a handwritten birthday card, can keep your name on someone’s fridge and in their messages.

We dig into LinkedIn with a clear stance: people engage with people, not logos. Rather than hiding behind a firm page, empower your attorneys to post under their own names with short lessons, FAQs, and helpful stories that feel human. Not everyone needs to be on camera; lean into your natural ambassadors and let others support with simple reposts. For video, skip the studio: batch 10 FAQ clips in two hours with a basic lav mic, change shirts, and record in a comfortable environment so tone stays warm and real. Authenticity earns attention, and attention earns referrals.

Finally, we move from ideas to execution. Choose where you’ll track referral outreach, CRM, case management, or a shared sheet, then define a cadence for reporting and review. Make data entry non-negotiable so you can measure touches, referrals, conversion rates, and revenue by source. Assign ownership with “who does what by when,” meet monthly to assess, and pivot fast when something isn’t working. By treating relationships as a system instead of a hope, you’ll create a more predictable intake, attract better-fit matters, and build a practice that grows on trust you keep reinforcing.

Reach Delisi here: 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/delisifriday/
50 Activities to Generate Referrals: https://firstcallfriday.com/resources

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SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to the Leadership in Law Podcast with host Marilyn Jenkins. Cut through the noise, get actionable insights, and inspiring stories delivered straight to your ears, your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership. In each episode, we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team. We connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who share their proven strategies in hard one with the whether you're a teaspoon leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner. The Leadership in Law Podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

SPEAKER_02:

Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law Podcast. I'm your host, Marilyn Jenkins. Please join me in welcoming my guest, DeleCriday, to the show today. Delicey helps lawyers and law firms create legal marketing and business development strategies to generate referrals from other attorneys and former clients. She believes referrals come from strong relationships and coaches lawyers on how to develop a network using LinkedIn. With over 20 years of experience working in the legal industry, Deleacey has worked in four eight-figure businesses, three of them law firms, including two simultaneously. I'm excited to have you here, Dele. Welcome. Hi, thanks for having me. Absolutely. So tell us a bit about your journey. I'm loving the networking part of it. So tell us how do you got to this point?

SPEAKER_01:

Sure. So I was born into the legal industry. My dad is a trial lawyer. I was born the day he became a lawyer. So I grew up in a law firm. So for anyone who was doing the math there since the age of 14, I worked in a law firm answering phones, did all the roles inside of a law firm, and thought I'd be a lawyer. But it turns out I don't enjoy having a bunch of hearings where you argue motion after motion, then if something gets denied, you have to go on to the next one. I was like, no, I'm still upset that first motion got denied. So my dad grew his law firm through referral marketing. So at a young age, I learned how important it was to have a really strong referral network and to build a strong network of people to send you referrals, have a great reputation in the community. And I realized, ooh, that's what I am. That's me. So I went in-house and was working, managing an intake and marketing department for seven years, grew that law firm from seven to eight figures, went to go work with R John Robbins, who was also on your show two years as his chief of staff. So obviously I learned a lot about the business side of law firms and said, you know what? I miss the marketing. And because of R John, I was inspired to start a business. I mean, wow, he shows lawyers all the time how they can be successful in managing a law firm like a business. And I thought, okay, I can do that too. So that's how I got to where I'm at today.

SPEAKER_02:

I love that. I love that. So it's in your blood. Absolutely. So why LinkedIn? Why do you focus on LinkedIn?

SPEAKER_01:

I love LinkedIn because I have seen it work for myself. I've seen it work for other lawyers. I also stalled the data. So every year the American Bar Association comes out with their legal tech report. And what was really interesting was in 2023, they came out with a report and it showed that either 81% or 83% of lawyers surveyed were on LinkedIn. And when they asked why, they said for networking and professional development. And I thought, wow, that is a lot of lawyers. Well, last year, the 2024 legal tech report for the first time showed that more law firms are marketing on LinkedIn than Facebook and Instagram. And I never thought I would see that day. And when that came out, I said, gosh, that's such a big indicator of how things are shifting. Law firms are marketing their firm for their business and also marketing their law firm to attract the right talent for their law firm on LinkedIn. And you can see it in those reports. You can see it with the way people are using LinkedIn now in the legal industry. And I'm such a fan of it. 40% of my business comes from LinkedIn. The other 60% is all my personal and professional network because I have to be about what I train every day.

SPEAKER_02:

True. And I love network. I love LinkedIn. It's been a very good tool for me as well. I'm sold on it. What do law firms get wrong when it comes to referral marketing?

SPEAKER_01:

First, they don't do it. There you go. First, they just don't do it. You know what really breaks my heart when a law firm will say they don't do any referral marketing. And I know if they did a little bit, even just a little bit, it would help their business because referrals and just take legal out of it. Anyone can and should be doing referral marketing because referral marketing is going to convert better than any other type of marketing that you do. Because with referrals, there's a level of trust that no ad or social media is going to be able to compare to or buy. And that's what makes referrals so special because it comes with a level of trust you simply cannot purchase. And so what law firms do wrong is they completely ignore it. And you're in marketing. So you understand when you put all your eggs in one basket, that doesn't help you. Because what happens if one day that basket just isn't working anymore?

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Where else are you marketing your law firm? So when you've got hills and valleys, something else is making up for those valleys. And that's where I see referral marketing being so important. So they get it wrong by not doing anything. And that's what I see a bunch of law firms doing. And then the second would be if they do something, it's an afterthought. Like if a law firm comes to me and said, I just realized my biggest clients all come from referrals and I haven't done anything. Can I just say thank you? And I'm like, I mean, yes, it starts with a thank you.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But what if we make it a system? What if we train your staff how to help you with this? What if we come up with some ideas you can do so it's not an afterthought and you're being proactive? Because I bet if you did something proactively, you could probably get more of those favorite cases.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly. I talk to attorneys all the time. And the one thing that I kind of cringe is when I ask them what type of marketing they're doing, and they're like, oh, word of mouth. But they can't put a it's not a system. It's just word of mouth. Well, are you consistently growing with that? You have to have a system to move forward. What how what are you doing for that? So yeah, I absolutely agree. So, what would be the simplest way for attorneys to set up uh start doing that to get referrals from, say, former clients or peers? What what would be step one, would you say?

SPEAKER_01:

Ooh, former clients? I'm so happy you mentioned that. Because it doesn't matter what practice area you're in, if you're in a big city or a small town, every single lawyer listening has former clients. And those former clients are gold. They already had a great experience with your law firm, hopefully. And if anyone is going to refer someone to you, your former client can share the experience that they had. And they have, again, it goes back to trust, this level of trust already associated with the referral because they've experienced what it's like working with your law firm. So, one, when it comes to former clients, the key there is honestly just staying top of mind.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

What are you doing to stay in touch with your former clients? Some law firms say, okay, well, I do a monthly email, a weekly email, a quarterly email. Okay, that's a good start too. Do you ever host any events in your law firm and you invite former clients? I had a client recently and we started talking about what that law firm's doing during the holidays. And they always have a holiday party where they have a Santa come in and the staff takes pictures, and it's like a nice internal holiday party. And I said, look, I know you have a big office and I know you have the budget. What if you invited your former clients and your current clients too? And then we said, happy holidays from Santa, courtesy of the blank law firm. No one's gonna throw away those Santa photos. They're gonna keep them because the kids love it. And now you've included your staff and you've included your current clients or former clients, and it's just an event you're already doing. You can invite them to not a sales event. Nope. No, not exactly. And that's where like the relationship part of referral marketing comes into it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Because now it's not, hey, come here for this thing. We're gonna remind you that we do workers' comp, personal injury, family law, whatever it is. It's join our family, join us for this event. Remember the person who helped you on your case. You're creating relationships and memories. And that little Santa photo that says courtesy of is gonna stay around on the fridge or on the counter for months. Yes. And then you stay top of mind that way. So it's easy to do former clients and current clients because there are things as simple as email marketing. You can also do an event, you can invite them to an event. I'm a huge fan of direct mail.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And so I love it if we can say, hey, can we task an admin with doing a direct mail campaign and it's a postcard or a card with your firm logo on it that you already have, and it's something like a birthday card. Gosh, everyone has a birthday. And when's the last time someone sent you a birthday card? No one sends me birthday cards, they send me birthday text messages, and that just doesn't hit the same. So those would be my suggestions for former clients and current clients. And when it comes to attorneys, if you want, I have a link on my website. We can share it in the show notes, and anyone can upload. You don't have to give me your name and your email, and I'm not gonna put you in a drip campaign. I created a list of 50 activities anyone can do to stay in touch with attorneys for referrals. And you can do anything. I think people forget that sometimes it's just about maintaining a relationship. It could be as simple as sending a text and say, hey Marilyn, did you know that next month downtown, they're gonna have this parade and it's for Halloween? And I think you and your family would love it. Here's some information. That's something super simple where it's about creating a relationship and maintaining a relationship. It's inviting you to an event. Maybe you didn't know about it. Maybe you and your family go and you're staying in touch, but you're not saying, Hey, Marilyn, how's it going? Do you have any cases?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

No one wants to answer that text. But if you build a relationship and you share things like that, then it's a lot stronger. So I think when it comes to attorneys, if people could just take a step back and think, what can I do to stay top of mind as a person, not necessarily saying, hey, Marilyn, do you have any cases for me? And that small mindset shift makes all the difference. So there's a whole bunch. The list of 50 is categorized by electronic, in-person, gifting, LinkedIn, because there are a lot of lawyers out there who are introverts. And if I said, hey, why don't you go to this networking event? They would say, I would rather die. No.

SPEAKER_02:

No, I agree. So thinking about, I do know a lot that do email newsletters and it's trying to get into make it also fun or include the team, the staff, and that always works really well. And if they can throw in a little bit of that and maybe a community involvement, what is your thoughts on maybe a firm that's been around for a while, but they've never done anything like this, doing a database reactivation type email, or even a postcard as well that announces an event that doesn't have to do with the firm. Or, like you said, this holiday party. It's another way of touching, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, that's a brilliant idea. Yes. Yes, I love it. Cause then it's not the same message, it's something different, it's an invitation. You see it in Mass Torts. Sometimes Mass Torts will send out emails to their attorney network and say, Hey, did you know about this? If you have a client who needs help, send it to me. And it's not, I don't want to say random. It's not a consistent basis where you're expecting it. It's something special and unique and specific that they're sending an email on. I love your idea of the event because you can still use email marketing to your benefit. And it doesn't have to be the email. Let me ask you, you mentioned emails and making your team involved. What have you seen works well when a law firm can get their team involved when it comes to email marketing?

SPEAKER_02:

It's it's like part of the content, right? Okay, so Deleisi had a birthday this month, or this is a new member of our team, or somebody had to bring your puppy to work day. Just something that is like not work, but it focuses on the team. We're a family. The firm is a family. We're all helping you with your case, right? And so it just personalizes it. People do business with people they know I can trust. That's one of the things is trying to have I love it. The ones that have, you know, whatever's happened in the new news of the month or whatever's happening locally or in the law, and then it's like what's happened in the firm and then what's happening locally. So there's a bit of, you know, bringing in a little bit of community. Again, like you said, you're you're just building relationships. And I love the fact that you can bring those relationships to, you know, through LinkedIn and expand your network that way. It just makes a lot of sense. Are you seeing when it comes to LinkedIn? Have you done very much with LinkedIn articles for your clients? No.

SPEAKER_01:

So when I work with lawyers, I don't consult with them on using LinkedIn for their law firm specifically. I encourage the lawyers within a law firm to be using their personal LinkedIn accounts. And I'll tell you why I believe that to be important. People do business with people they know, like, and trust, just like you said. And they also connect with people. You don't typically have someone say, I really wanted to hire the Smith Law firm because I love the Smith law firm. But you might have a client say, I wanted to hire the Smith Law firm because I really liked Lisi Friday. And they connected with the person instead of the law firm. And what I love about LinkedIn is if lawyers use their personal LinkedIn, it builds their personal brand, their professional brand, and people are more inclined to read that message, relate to it, and share it versus a business page. I'll be honest, when I go on LinkedIn, I'm not sharing company LinkedIn statuses and shares very rarely. I can't think of one example where I have. However, I do share a lot of attorney profile posts because they said something that I found interesting and I want to share. And so I see the value in attorneys each doing it. And if they're not active on LinkedIn, encouraging them to say, okay, if you're not active on LinkedIn, can you at least support what the law firm is putting on the law firm LinkedIn page and just hit that repost button. You don't even have to put repost with comments. Please just hit that repost button because it's driving traffic to the company's LinkedIn page and the company's LinkedIn post and raising awareness because you don't have law firms with tons of followers on LinkedIn, but you will have lawyers who have more followers on their personal LinkedIn. If you can encourage them to share the law firm message, then you can have a lot more success.

SPEAKER_02:

I love that. And that was that kind of leads into my next question. If you've got an attorney that's not very active on LinkedIn, what would be the first step? I love that.

SPEAKER_01:

No. No. Okay. Tim Semmelroth said this, and I want to make sure I quote him because it was such a great quote. He said, You can't send a turkey to Eagle School. And I think he was quoting John Morgan when he said that. And he responded with that quote when someone said, What do you do if you have a lawyer in your law firm who's just not into it? Like they're not into the marketing, they're not into LinkedIn. And if you had them do a video, they would look like a hostage. And the truth is, look, so someone either has it or they don't. Yeah. Honestly. You can, as a legal marketer, find your cheerleaders, find the people who naturally do something like that well, encourage and motivate them, and then find success that way. But in my experience, if you try and get those others who don't do it well, it's gonna come off cringy. And it's not gonna, it's not gonna go over well. Now, I will say, I've heard of law firms who incentivize their staff to engage with their social media posts and say, wherever you're at, Facebook, Instagram, X, TikTok, LinkedIn, YouTube, please share one of the posts that we did for this month or two of the posts we did this month, or engage with it and give it a like. That's all you have to do, just so other people can be engaging with the content. I have heard of law firms doing that because at the very least, then you have them sharing the message, engaging with the content, which you want. I honestly don't know if I have a strong opinion on that. Cause on one hand, I want them to naturally do it because they love the law firm and they want to share the message because they care about what they do. I'm Also smart enough to know that some people just do it for the paycheck and they don't have the heart in it like you and I would, who just want people to engage with it and share it because we create this marketing gold. Can someone please engage with it from the law firm and share the message? Yeah. So my suggestion there would be someone has it or they don't. And if you try and force it, I think it's gonna come across poorly.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. At least like your first few videos when you first start doing videos, you know, you're like, don't watch my first 25. Just, you know, just don't do it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, exactly. It's just like that. And and honestly, when it comes to video, I love video because then you can hear someone's tone, you can see their facial expressions, you can like really get a sense of who they are. But I never want it to backfire.

SPEAKER_02:

No, no, we had a client that we wanted to do FAQ type videos and found the perfect place in her favorite restaurant before it opened, someone behind the camera, asking the questions. She then repeated the questions and answered it like she's talking to that person, not like she's looking at the camera.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh my God, that's so brilliant.

SPEAKER_02:

Simple. Yeah. And it came across so genuine.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. Oh my gosh, you nailed it. I bet that came across so and caring.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, it was estate planning. It was so I'm like, and they they performed incredibly well. So, but yeah, I mean, just like an interview type thing, but the person behind the camera did their voice wasn't on it. She repeated the question, gave the answer. I mean, it was great. It was so great.

SPEAKER_01:

I have a question. Did when you did that, did you ever at any point say, we're here at blank restaurant? So then they can know it wasn't a promo.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, that would be a good idea, but no, this was specifically for for ad content, that sort of thing. And yeah, it was a friend's restaurant. It would just worked out perfect. That way she was comfortable. She didn't feel stiff and in her office, which is always a good reason to have a couch in the office that you can sit on a couch or sit at the just something, yeah, just make it not stiff, I guess is the the thing.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. Well, and here's the hurdle. Honestly, there's so many people who are nervous about reaching out to lawyers, they feel intimidated or they like no one calls a lawyer because they're having a great day.

SPEAKER_02:

No, that is true.

SPEAKER_01:

You need them to be relatable and approachable because it's already a challenging conversation for that potential new client. So I love that idea. That's great because now your video content makes them likable, approachable, casual, and that lawyer is in a place where they're performing the content very well in a very natural way. I love it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I mean, like 10 FAQs, they're looking to be 30 to 45 seconds long. Just do 10 at one time and look at all that content you have.

SPEAKER_01:

So yeah. Let me ask you for someone who's thinking about doing video and they haven't yet, do you recommend they do a batch recording like that to help them get the content done in an efficient way?

SPEAKER_02:

I think absolutely, because it's just also less stressful. And you can go in like with a couple of shirts and change a shirt mid midstream and we can flip mixing them up and stuff like that. But yeah, I mean, it just makes it easy. You don't have to stress about doing, oh, I've got a video today every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. You can say, you know what, at the end of the month, I'm gonna take two hours and I'm gonna record some videos. I'm gonna change my shirt two or three times, maybe move to a different chair, and we're just gonna knock out the the script. We're just gonna do it. And that way you've got one period of time to get excited, no fancy camera. Yeah, do the the$20 lavalier mic that's the little Wi-Fi wireless one that clips your shirt. Don't make it complicated.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

You know?

SPEAKER_01:

I love that. Yeah, it's very efficient.

SPEAKER_02:

I I agree. I agree. Now, when you're looking at you're helping someone get their referral program set up and running, right? If as important as that is, how do you work with them to systematize it across their firm or across the team?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. You hit the nail on the head because we could come up with a great plan. And if there's not a system to make sure it happens and to track it, then it's just a great plan and nothing ever happens. So honestly, it's kind of like the lawyer phrase, it depends. Because truly, it it depends. I've seen some law firms who say, okay, I'm going to make sure whenever we're doing something for referral marketing, we're putting notes in our case management system. I've seen some law firms that have a bigger budget and they actually have a CRM just for marketing efforts and it talks to their case management system. I know Salesforce has a connection to Lidify. So I've seen some lawyers do it like that. Honestly, it's some of the other smaller firms just get scrappy and put all of their notes on an Excel spreadsheet. But when it comes to creating a system, I think what's important is making a decision and saying, first, how much time are we dedicating to these items? And what do we do to make sure that time happens? Are we going to meet once a month to go over these? Is someone going to submit a report once a month or every two weeks to give us updates on these things? Is there an automation in one of our softwares that can run a report to make sure these things happen? And making sure you decide that and then have the data put in to make sure that your reports and accountability happen because you could create the system and say, okay, here's what we're going to do. We're going to meet once a month in person to go over our referral marketing efforts. Every two weeks, our operations manager is going to run a report through our case management system or client relations management system to make sure these actions are happening. But if no one fills out the information and they don't use the system, those reports are all fine and dandy, but they don't actually help you if they don't have the data. So a part of that system is making sure it's actually being used. So when you as a leadership team are making decisions, you're making decisions on data, not feelings, not assumptions. Yes. And that's a really key part of it. But first, it's deciding where are you going to track these efforts, where are you going to put the notes? How are we going to run reports, make sure it's done? Second, how often are we going to talk about this? Because I have found if you run all these reports and you do these things, but you don't actually meet as a team in person by Zoom, however you do that, then you're not having conversations. You're just doing an action, running a report, doing an action, running a report. And in marketing, you have to know when to pivot. You got to know if something's working or not working. And if something is failing horribly, do you try it a little longer or you pivot and you say, okay, let's take that money out, let's put it over here because this is soaring. Yeah. And that kind of ability to pivot and talk things through on a consistent basis is so important because you just never know what's going to work, what's not going to work. And if you can be nimble like that, then your law firm is better for it.

SPEAKER_02:

Agreed. And of course, assigning someone to do that, it's got to be someone's responsibility. So yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. And that's so important too because sometimes I will work with a law firm and they're like, oh, okay, we'll figure that out. Someone will do it. I'm like, whoa, whoa.

SPEAKER_02:

Nope. That'll never happen.

SPEAKER_01:

Let's decide who does what by when. And when you decide who does what by when, then you can hold people accountable. And without that accountability, well, then it's just a whole bunch of wishful thinking.

SPEAKER_02:

That is true. Yeah, we're gonna be best intentions, but if it doesn't actually get systematized and assigned, it will never happen. Yeah. Wow. This has been absolutely incredible. I've enjoyed this conversation and I hope our listeners have taken some good ideas away from it. And I know some of them are gonna want to reach out to you. How's the best way? And of course, we want to get that 50 items, so that 50 list. So how's the best way that my listeners can reach out to you?

SPEAKER_01:

Sure. So number one, obviously LinkedIn, LinkedIn.com backslash delicate. We can put it in the show notes and anyone can visit me there. And for the upload document of 50 referral marketing activities, visit my website at firstcallfriday.com backslash resources, and you can just click a button, upload it, and use it.

SPEAKER_02:

Fantastic. We'll make sure we have all of that in the show notes. And yeah, you guys, if you're not on LinkedIn or you're not being active on LinkedIn, like Delisi says, you need to get involved so you build your referral network. This has been an absolutely great conversation. I really appreciate having you here. Thank you for your time today. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure. Thanks for joining me today for this episode. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode. And if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to LawmarketingZone.com to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, thanks for listening to Leadership in Law Podcast, and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law Podcast. Remember, you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success. Head over to our website at lawmarketingzone.com. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources, and stay up to date on the latest episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us to review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing your firm.

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