S03E150 Happiness, Growth & Efficiency with the Distributed Law Firm Model with Kevin Broyles

Most law firms are built on a financial assumption that’s about to get stress-tested: charge premium rates, stack teams, and bill junior time for work that clients increasingly question. We sit down with Kevin Broyles, co-founder and managing partner of FisherBroyles, to unpack a different blueprint, one that’s been running for more than two decades and still looks ahead of the curve: the distributed law firm model.

Kevin shares the origin story behind launching a firm during the post-9/11 tech collapse, then walks through what “distributed” really means in practice. The firm keeps a strong technology backbone but drops the heaviest overhead drivers: big offices, bloated staffing, and a leverage model that pushes associate hours onto client invoices. Instead, the focus is on seasoned attorneys, transparent formula-based compensation, and a culture built around autonomy, entrepreneurship, and trust. We also talk about the real human cost of traditional systems, from “Sunday stomach” to burnout, and why treating lawyers like responsible adults can actually improve performance and client service.

Then we get into the next wave: AI in legal services. Kevin explains why AI may hit associate-driven billing the hardest, how clients will respond, and why lawyers must treat AI like a powerful tool that still requires supervision and judgment. If you care about law firm leadership, alternative legal services, remote legal work, and building a modern legal business model that clients actually value, this conversation delivers practical clarity.

Reach Kevin here:
https://fisherbroyles.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/fisherbroyles-llp/posts/?feedView=all
https://www.facebook.com/fisherbroyles/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-broyles-a1b1a63/

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Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Welcome to the first task. The host for authenticity. Identified stories that they were trying to do. From the locking expositive growth to building a driving team, with the firm leaders, an industry expert to start the proof of strategies and hardware. Whether you're a typical leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner. The Leadership in Law Podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

I'm your host, Marilyn Jenkins. Please join me in welcoming my guest, Kevin Broiles, to the show today. Kevin is the co-founder and managing partner of Fisher Broils, the first and one of the largest distributed law firms, and the only non-traditional law firm to have ever ranked in the AM Law 200, where he spent over two decades redefining how modern legal services are delivered. His background includes litigation and corporate technology law, primarily with advising startups, growth tech companies. Before launching Fisher Broils, he practiced at Rogers and Harden and Morris and Manning and Martin. That's a lot of M skid in there. I'm excited to have you here, Kevin. How are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:54

I'm doing great. And thank you for having me. I look forward to seeing you.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Absolutely. Tell us a bit about your leadership journey and what led you to where you are.

SPEAKER_01 2:02

I started out as a litigator at Rogers and Harden. It was an innovative firm in that it operated on a lower leveraged model than traditional law firms. We had to associates, and I was one of those, but there wasn't like a three-to-one leverage. It was a little bit more innovative, cost conscious, delivering value to clients. But in the late 90s, I got the technology bug and decided I don't want to be a litigator anymore. And there are reasons for that, which I won't get into, some litigation horror stories. But I decided to go over to Morris Manning and Martin, where I met James Fisher. And we were riding the wave of the technology growth back in those days. And James and I ended up joining at the very peak. So it was very bad timing. Everything was downhill from there, not in a good way. As 9-11 approached, the marketplace was contracting for technology. And then after 9-11, it collapsed. And we enjoyed being very entrepreneurial in that model and helping startups and emerging growth companies and the technology space. So we didn't want to stop doing that. And I had opportunities to go back to litigation, and that was just not something I wanted to do. I talked to a client, and the client said, Why don't you just start your own firm and get rid of this overhead? I said, That's a good idea. Would you hire me if I did that? He goes, absolutely. In in 2002, coming up on 25-year anniversary, April 1st, no joke, we started the firm and we started with three or four clients. And my first year, I was making probably 75% of what I made my final year at the traditional firm. But I was working 25% of the time. So I said, this kind of works.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

Sounds good.

The Distributed Model Explained

SPEAKER_01 3:52

It's just, it's evolved in a way I'm not sure that anyone ever imagined. But once we got to seven attorneys, it was easier to get to 13, and then 13 got to 26. And all of a sudden we were looking at 100, and we're like, wow, this is really something. And the way we started was to be innovative and focus on the human capital, the attorneys who had the experience, had the intuition. Our model wasn't based on leveraging young lawyers that clients had to pay for. That's the traditional law model. Bring first years out of law school, pay them outrageous amounts. I hear now that some of them are up to$250,000 a year. And then they expect them to bill three times what their cost is. And that's the economic model. We basically went the other direction and said, let's control costs and add value by focusing on the seasoned attorneys who really are the ones providing the value to clients and offer the client a much better rate. And it resonated and it's worked magnificently well. And the more technology evolves, the easier it is for us to compete. And the more our model has been proven to be something prophetic, although we weren't prophets back then. But it just seems every time technology evolves or COVID happens, people say, Oh, your firm was prepared. We were, but it not for the reasons you would think. It's just that we've been very fortunate in, you know, following our values. And it's turned out that circumstances have been very good to us over the years.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

So following your values and using technology and just being a much more efficient firm has helped you be build this new distributed model. And how do you explain that distributed model?

SPEAKER_01 5:48

We're basically like a traditional firm when it comes to the technology backbone. We just don't have the office space. We don't have the young attorneys, and we don't have the support staff that's bloated. And these I'll give you an example. When I first started practicing law, the firm administrator walked in my office and pointed at that dictaphone behind the desks, and I had the cord that you would stretch. And she said, You need to learn how to dictate. And I said, Why? I type 70 words a minute. So that was the first. We're the new generation of lawyers that don't need a lot of hand holding. And as that generation has matured, and later generations are even more innovative and self-sufficient, all the bells and whistles that law firms have spent a lot of money on over the years are no longer necessary. And there are a lot of lawyers out there as communication has also gotten more ubiquitous, that they understand I don't really need to practice in that particular model. And I don't need all this. I would rather have more control of my time and be rewarded and accountable for my entrepreneurial growth as a lawyer.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

I love that. So what inspired you, inspired the idea to launch a distributed law firm like Pisce Brawls?

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Once I met with a client, James and I sat down, and there were some other lawyers that we were practicing with at the time. And we just had too much time on our hands at the at that point because a lot of our clients had gone out of business. It was great when BCs were throwing money at every wacky technology idea, internet company. But that dried up really quickly in 2001 and 2002. And so we had a lot of brainstorming sessions where we sat around and said, How would we do it different? We've been in large law firms. We've seen the good and the bad. How would we do it if we structured our own firm? And then once, once we took the leap, it was, you know, it we knew at that point that we had made the right decision and things kept getting better. And we formed our own culture of entrepreneurship, respect, integrity, value, efficiency. And we started attracting lawyers who wanted all those things because they weren't getting that in their traditional law firm.

SPEAKER_02 8:07

And I think the lawyers, a lot more lawyers, have that entrepreneurial spirit, but they feel like they need the security of a larger law firm instead of jumping out there. So it's an interesting spot that you pick to actually work with that spirit as well as the law.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

And the irony is traditional law firms don't have additional security. If there's a downturn in the economy, a lot of those lawyers are getting laid off or they're getting their comp cut. We let our partners bet on themselves and they can make a lot more in the good times. And interestingly, in the lean times when clients are looking to save money, we often grow in the lean times because we offer that alternative where they can still get a really seasoned attorney who has a lot of experience, but they're paying 60 or 70% of the cost of a traditional law firm.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

Amazing. And getting that experience and everything they need as well. And so basically on what you wanted and the amount of time you wanted to spend, that was what kind of led you guys to the conviction that this is going to succeed. It'll work.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Yeah, and we decided early on that there was something that James called Sunday stomach, where you just dreaded going back into the office on Monday. So Sunday afternoon, you know, around 4 p.m., you started to go, ugh, I've got to go back to the office tomorrow. And there was a lot of stress involved. There's a lot of stress that is imposed upon attorneys in traditional law firms because of the way the model is structured. And we wanted to get rid of that because we decided and fundamentally bet on the concept that lawyers would be better lawyers if they were happier and if they weren't worn out. So we don't have billable quotas. And we give more autonomy to our partners to structure their practice because we believe that they are professionals and they can be trusted to structure their own practice without a top-down management structure that's constantly berating them for not getting their bills out or not billing enough hours or not using these associates. It's almost like those penny brokers that have a stock. We're pushing this stock today. The traditional law firm management comes in and says, You need to use those associates, but it's not efficient for my client to use those. I don't care. That's how we make money. So they're just pushing the associates onto clients, and the clients don't want them. And a lot of times the lawyers don't want them, but the firm is stuck in that traditional structure that requires it or it can't survive.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

I love the autonomy, you're giving accountability, you're giving responsibility and letting people be adults and run their own business and be accountable for that. How did you build start to build that trust and accountability? Obviously, you've built a culture. How did you communicate that so that attorneys can operate independently across their locations? Because you're all over the U.S.

Building Trust And Transparent Compensation

SPEAKER_01 11:05

And in London, Mexico City, Monterey, and Hong Kong. So yeah, we've got, I think we've got somewhere around 30 locations now. And the way we built it is one instance at a time because a lot of attorneys come out of traditional law firms and they have Stockholm syndrome. They just don't understand that they're not required anymore to check in with the overseers. Um, they don't have to call in to the management when they're sick. We had one attorney who called our chief operating officer and said, I'm not feeling well today. And the COO said, I'm so sorry. Is there anything I can do to help? No, I just wanted to let someone know. And she said, if you have client deadlines, you need to let your client know, but you don't need to let us know that you're not feeling well. You're an adult. It's okay as long as you're taking care of your clients. Or I had another partner who I sent some work to on an LLC operating agreement. And this particular person had written the book on LLC operating agreements that was published by Thomson Reuters or one of the others. And she sent back and said, Do you want to review this before I send it to the client? I'm like, how can I possibly review your work? I have nothing to add. You wrote the book. But it was things like that where they had to figure out that this really is something innovative. And I don't have to follow the rules that I used to follow in the traditional firm. And they're happier for it. And the partners get along better because one of the additional issues with traditional law firms is compensation is a mystery. And they make you justify your compensation every year. And a lot of time it's this unknowable black box that the management's trying to just justify the compensation. The partner's trying to justify getting more. And it creates conflicts among partners and between management and the lawyers. We don't have that because we have a formula-based compensation system that is transparent. So they can see exactly what they're being rewarded for. And that leads to more collaboration. It leads to better feelings among partners, and it completely removes the friction between management and partners.

SPEAKER_02 13:13

And I think again, coming back to the that entrepreneurial part of being an attorney, you're making that easily to express. They can be their own entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Yeah. And we encourage that. We want to hear from them. The more thought leaders we can have within our firm, the better for us because we can continue to innovate. I'm always open to my partners calling me and offering suggestions. I basically tell them look, I'm you're not going to offend me by offering constructive criticism or ideas, as long as I'm not going to offend you for saying no to some of your ideas.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

So no harm, man. That's right. Open communication. So what leadership habits or systems do you help to cultivate the culture that you have there? Do you have a standardized or maybe a mentorship program or coaching that you put out? Or how do you work with that?

Scaling Globally With Remote Recruiting

SPEAKER_01 14:39

Well, we yeah, because we don't have young lawyers, we don't really have to have a mentorship program. Our lawyers are technicians. They're they don't want to get into the management of law. They want to practice law. That's where I have so many PhDs within my firm. These folks are way smarter than I am. I would never even risk telling them how to practice law. And they don't want to manage and they don't know how to manage. So we do the managing. Our goal is just to service them so that they can be as productive as they can and to help them to continue to grow their book. And that way we all make money. So there's not a lot of we need to train you, although we do sometimes have to train them on the systems because they're different. And we sometimes have to provide feedback because they're used to it being done a certain way at traditional law firms, and they're shocked that it's not done that way here. And it's a good shock, but it's that sometimes they suspect the worst and then they figure out it's not that bad because we just don't do it that way.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

Interesting. Absolutely. And so when you said you're now up to 30 locations, what strategies did you use to scale this model? Are you just finding those attorneys in those locations that's a great fit?

SPEAKER_01 15:58

It's difficult because lawyers in general are risk averse. So that's the pool in which we're fishing. We then go in and say, hey, we have an even more innovative idea that you can take a risk and bet on yourself. And a lot of them are like, oh no, I have to leave the mothership. Who's gonna go get my coffee in the morning? But there are plenty who are like, I can forego someone getting my coffee, I can go to the curricul myself. And I'd much rather get paid twice to three times what I'm making at the traditional law firm. And if all I have to do is answer my own phone and get my own coffee, then bring it on. That's all you have to do, but it's pretty close. And as technology evolves, it gets even easier.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

And without the overhead of offices everywhere, are most of your people working out of either a small office or out of their home?

SPEAKER_01 16:46

A lot of them, I'm in my home now. A lot of them are working out of their home. Technology has made it so that we can work from anywhere. Every time there seems to be a black swan event, it helps us, which is knock on wood. COVID was a black swan event, it helped us because prior to COVID, attorneys we would recruit would be concerned. One, can I work from home? And two, what will my clients think if I work from home? After COVID, that disappeared because everyone was working from home. And then you fell in love with it. Not only can I, I hate the idea of going back into the office. I used to have a recurring nightmare. After you graduate college or law school, you have a recurring nightmare that you're missing an exam. I overslept, and I used to have a recurring nightmare in the first 15 year years of founding the firm that I had to get back in traffic and drive into an office. It was strange. That has faded, but I can imagine that folks who join us probably sometimes have that same nightmare. And it is a nightmare. And it it leads to less productivity when you're having to waste a commute of an hour to an hour and a half round trip every day.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

Yeah, agreed. There's two sides of that coin, is some people are very concerned that they won't have the discipline to do it. And then other people, I'm worried I won't have the discipline to stop. Like I'm gonna overwork. So it is a balance that they themselves have to work that out.

unknown 18:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

And our attorneys don't seem to have a problem with that. We don't have a lot of them that are billing at the high rate that they were billing at the traditional law firm. So they seem to snuggle into the idea of controlling their own time and finding a happy medium where they're billing enough to keep themselves happy and productive and successful, but they're not killing themselves.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

So they actually have the quality of life.

Staying Connected Through Meetings And Retreats

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Yeah. We get a lot of family members come up to us at retreats and thank us for the changes that have occurred in the partner's life. Right. Right. As long as you can stand to work from home, you don't have a little yappy dog running around. Some of our folks, like, you know, I got to go into an office. But very few, but that's fine. It still works out very well for them as well.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

I love that. And how does empowering attorneys individually still allow the firm to maintain this cohesive identity and shared goals? You're saying you said something about retreats. So you do have places where you get together.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

We do. We have a monthly partnership meeting by Zoom, and then we have two in-person retreats per year, one in the spring and one in the fall. And then every month we have practice group meetings, and then we have affinity groups. You can join one of those if you want to talk about AI or you want to talk about cooking or golf or whatever. And a lot of our partners get together for that. So there are ways that we stay connected. And then because our formula, our compensation formula rewards the sharing of work, we have a lot more collaboration than you might find in a traditional law firm. But around one-third of our revenue is generated by lawyers billing hours to clients they did not bring to the firm.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

So not as much competition.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Not competition. It's everyone rolling in the same direction and it's mutually rewarding.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

That is certainly a different way of going about it. So when you say you have a new client come to the firm, are they actually coming to a specific attorney or coming to the firm directly? How do we distribute that?

SPEAKER_01 20:19

So there's a misconception, some among lawyers, but often among non-lawyers, is that clients hire law firms. That's not true. Clients hire lawyers. Now, if you're talking about the top 30 firms in the world, yes, Warren Buffett is hiring a firm. And that firm has been his firm for many years. But the vast majority of clients hire trusted legal advisors. That's a person. And once you show them, and this was something we had to do early on, once you show them that the quality of the product is the same, that's all they want to know. They don't care if you're the 250th largest firm in the world or the 150th or the second largest. They want that person with a firm that can provide them with the legal services that they need, but they want it from the trusted advisor that they've known for many years. So there are a lot of lawyers, the vast majority of lawyers can leave their current firm and they'll take every client that they're working with them. And they'll just move across the street. There are a select few at the large firms, Kravath, as an example, that they can't leave and take any clients. Those are institutional clients. That's like someone who has to drive the right sports car. There are a lot of great sports cars out there, but oh, I have to have a Lamborghini. They're always going to buy a Lamborghini. They don't care about the price. They don't care about how much it costs to fix. They don't even care about how many times it breaks down. They're a Lamborghini person. And but that's the small minority of clients. The rest are very portable and they're happy to go with the attorney that has been servicing them.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Interesting. And I do love that you keep some of that, I guess, office camaraderie in your affinity groups. That's an interesting way. And you encourage that for everybody getting together in whatever specific group. And that that's got to help the collaborations as well.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

It does. And one of our annual retreats, well, I guess they're biannual, one of them is simply team building for the most part. We have two cocktail hours. And other than that, everyone's free to do whatever they want during the day. And a lot of times the partners will get together. We just recently had one in Las Vegas, and I went horseback riding with seven other partners.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

And there were some people who went kayaking. I mean, it's just those kinds of things. And then you network at the happy hour. And then the other retreat in the fall is more learning, meetings, panel discussions, and that kind of thing. But there's also some time to just network and enjoy getting to know each other.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

Yeah, because a lot of those events, the real meat and potatoes happens in the hallway.

AI Changes Legal Work And Billing

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Absolutely. But one thing we do when we first have our annual partnership full retreat in the fall is the very first morning after we have opening remarks, we introduce or ask each partner who's joined since the last retreat to stand up and introduce themselves to the room. And that leads to a lot of cross-selling, networking, because they say a little bit about themselves. This is my practice area. And then another partner across the room will think, oh, I've got a client that could probably use that. And it's a great opportunity for them to make money on the referral over and the other partner to make money on building those hours.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

Very good. That's awesome. How is technology? I know obviously Zoom has been an amazing thing, but you mentioned AI, that kind of thing. How has that made you what technology and how does it make you more efficient for these legal services that you're separately from the traditional model?

SPEAKER_01 23:51

It started 24 years ago as faxing improved to an AFAX or an EFAX. And then, you know, data retention improved. And all of that just started making it much easier. We used to have a lot of in-person recruiting meetings. We don't do much of that anymore because of Zoom. And that was a result of right before COVID and during COVID. Our firm seems to have been built, it was built purposely, but the goals that we had are not the benefits that we see from technology. We have more benefits than we actually saw when we first structured it, the way we're structuring it. I think AI is one of those that is fantastic for us because our firm was originally built on the idea that the only human being you need to provide your legal services is that seasoned attorney who's done the deals hundreds of times. You don't need a team of associates. You need that experienced 15 to 35-year practitioner who's done this so many times and they have that knowledge of your company. They have that wisdom and intuition built up over many years. It's like the old joke of the guy who comes in, the carpenter, and he finds the he steps on the floor and he takes out a nail and hammers it and then says, here's the bill, and it was 10 cents for the nail and 50 bucks for knowing where to hammer. And that's what you mean, you're paying for the person who knows what's going on and what to do because they've got that experience. So we never had the associates. Those are the ones who are going to be most displaced by AI. So all AI is going to do for us is make our partners even more efficient. So we're going to be able to provide the same experience, seasoned advice. We're just going to be able to provide two to three times more because AI is going to do all of the repetitive tasks, the heavy lifting, that isn't really the highest and best use for a lawyer who's been practicing for 25 years.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

And that's an interesting thought because one of the things that people are talking about is okay, if I'm using AI to reduce the amount of time and make me more efficient, how do I build more hours?

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Yeah. And it's going to make us even more competitive against traditional firms because they have a financial model that's in deep trouble. If your profit is primarily based on leveraging young lawyers, because you're paying the partners are making millions and the young lawyers are making hundreds of thousands, but the client's paying a million for every young lawyer, that's where all your money's coming from. And AI is going to displace all of them. Clients are sophisticated. They're going to look at that and say, why do I even see a first, second, third, or fourth year on my invoice? I shouldn't see, I should charge me a hundred bucks a month for AI or 500 a month, whatever, but don't you dare charge me thousands of dollars for a first or second year writing a memo because AI can draft that memo in 50 seconds. Yeah, and the lawyer who's seasoned still has to do what that lawyer was doing before when it was a first or second year. You got to review it. The only difference is AI is a lot smarter than any of those first, second, or third years. But you still have to review it. Because I tell my partners at this stage, before we have more development of AI, you should view AI as a really smart, unethical associate. Because it's going to lie to you. It's going to make up cases, possibly. So you got to review that. There's still a duty to supervise, whether it's first year, second year, or AI, as a lawyer and a member of the bar, you have a duty to supervise whatever you're using to provide that first draft or that memo.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

I agree. And that's one thing. And then you wouldn't, yeah, that's one thing that gets lost is taking that time to review it. Just because it did it doesn't mean it's presentable.

Client Value And Cannibalizing Your Model

SPEAKER_01 28:03

I've been giving my partners an example and recruits that I've been talking to recently. I was out of town in a condo in a city for a basketball game a couple of weeks ago. And the game didn't start until four or six. So I got on to Chat GPT and I said, plot me a four-mile run. And it said, head down this street, take a left and running along the river. And I said, If I go that way, the river's the opposite way. And ChatGPT says, Oh, you're right. Okay, run the opposite way and then cross the pedestrian bridge at the river and take a left and run along the river walk. And I said, Well, the riverwalk's not a left. If I cross the river, I got to take a right. And he said, Oh, you're right. And I did that about four times, and then I got my four miles. And the moral of the story was it was super helpful and it saved me time. But if I had just followed it blindly, I would be in the middle of bad part of town running around.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

Nowhere near the river.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Who knows? Nowhere near the river.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Oh my gosh. So after more than 20 years of pioneering this model, what lessons or insights would you share with laws who want or thinking, trying to rethink how they operate?

SPEAKER_01 29:15

You have to cannibalize yourself and always be thinking about how I can do it better. Because competition is intense. Focus on the client and your professional responsibilities. You can't focus on anything else. Provide value. We used to always say pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered. And the problem is a lot of traditional firms are hogs. They keep raising their rates and eventually the client just terminates them and says, we've got to figure out something. Because in-house counsel, they're always pressured to manage their department and save money. They're a cost center. They're not a profit center. So they've got to reduce, they can't increase profit. They have to reduce cost. And that's where we come in. We can reduce your costs because one, we are more efficient. We don't have a first or second year reviewed by a sixth or seventh year, reviewed by a 20-year partner. We just take the 20-year partner and say, that person's responsible. They can do it. They've got forms. They don't need a first year drafting a software as a service agreement. They've got forms where they've done it so many times before. Just pull it up, make the changes, review for the deal, and you get it done so much more efficiently. And there's no pressure coming from the partner from this side, which is the firm, and the clients on this side, and the firm saying, use first years, bill more. And the client's saying, don't use first and second years, bill less, make me more efficient. And the partner's stuck in the middle, it's very stressful. So we go in and we basically free them from all of that. We rescue them and say, now you we don't have, we don't set billable rates for partners. We don't have billable quotas. We basically take the position that as the partner who has the trusted relationship with the client, you are in the best position to know how to service that client. We don't need to be telling you how to do it. You work with a client, and the clients are very happy, and the partners are very happy, and they provide better value, and they're not hogs, they're not getting slaughtered, they're developing a long-term relationship or maintaining a long-term relationship with that client base.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

Sounds incredibly logical.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

That's the thing. It's mind-boggling. Traditional law firms sometimes just they're stuck in that rut. And I used to analogize to people I talk to, it's almost like Congress. If you look at the polls, Congress is very unpopular. They probably pull below 30%. But when you go to the people and say, what do you think about your person in Congress? Oh, they pull really high. So it's like the clients love the attorney, but they hate the law firm. And so we've gotten to where we say, let's make it so that your clients love the law firm and they love the attorney, because then they're going to send more work, which is going to help you and it's going to help us.

SPEAKER_02 32:09

I love that you're cultivating the entrepreneur spirit for each person and still making a company culture, if you will.

How To Connect And Closing CTAs

SPEAKER_01 32:16

Yeah, and people love it. They get along. We're friends. It just reduces lawyers, are some of the most stressed people in the country, and the suicide rates for lawyers are way up there. It doesn't have to be that way. We just decided to create something that's still profitable, successful, efficient, and high quality without all of those drawbacks that make working as a lawyer so unpleasant.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

And you've got seasoned attorneys that have been around the block and they know how to do what they need to do and do it efficiently.

unknown 32:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:51

I love it. They like it. And there's that. So Kevin, this has been eye-opening. I love what you built, and it just sounds like an incredible way to go, especially as you get more efficient with AI and stuff. I know my listeners may want to reach out to you, connect with you. Where would be the best place for that?

SPEAKER_01 33:07

You can go to the website, fissurebroils.com, F-I-S-H-E-R, B-R-O-Y-L-E-S.com. My bio's on there, my email's on there. Reach out to me on LinkedIn. I'm on there. I'd be happy to engage with them.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

Perfect. And we'll make sure that those links. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

I said I love talking about the firm, as you can tell.

SPEAKER_02 33:27

I love it. I'll make sure that those links are in the show notes so people can reach out to you. This has been very fun to have this conversation. I appreciate your time and enlightening us about how your firm works.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

I enjoy talking with you and I appreciate your podcast and great to talk to you again.

SPEAKER_02 33:40

Thanks for joining me today for this episode. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode. And if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to LawmarketingZone.com to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, thanks for listening to Leadership in Law Podcast, and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law Podcast. Remember, you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same to test. Head over to our website at LawMarketingZone.com. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources, and stay up to date on the latest episode. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing your firm.