S04E167 Three Levels of Connection to Save Your Marriage with Dr. Lee Baucom

Marriages do not usually fall apart in one dramatic moment. More often, they get quietly put on hold while life feels urgent: building a practice, chasing deadlines, raising kids, paying bills, and keeping everything moving. We sit down with Dr. Lee Baucom, a marriage coach and creator of the Save the Marriage System, to name that pattern clearly: the “pause button marriage” and the slow drift into disconnection that can leave two good people feeling like roommates. 

We dig into the practical framework Lee uses with thousands of couples worldwide, including the three levels of connection that tend to fade first: physical connection (loving touch beyond sex), emotional connection (feeling seen and supported), and spiritual connection (shared values, hopes, dreams, and fears). Once you can identify what is missing, you have clear targets for rebuilding, without trying to fix everything at once or forcing a big emotional “breakthrough” conversation that the relationship cannot hold yet. 

The most surprising takeaway is also the most hopeful: you do not need your spouse fully on board to start improving the marriage. Because a marriage is a system, one person can change their steps and shift the dance. We talk about signs the relationship is drifting, how resentment builds from unprocessed hurt, and how to stay motivated using values-based reasons that last longer than fear. Lee also shares simple daily habits, like consistent “one-way” connection texts, that rebuild trust over time. 

Reach Dr. Lee here: 
http://UnPauseYourMarriage.com
http://SaveTheMarriage.com

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Welcome to the Leadership and Law Podcast. With host, Marilyn Jacobins. Get actionable insights and inspiring stories delivered straight to your ears, your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of Law Firm ownership. In each episode, we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team. We connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who share their proven strategies and hard law wisdom. So whether you're a season leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership and Law Podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law Podcast. I'm your host, Marilyn Jenkins. Please join me in welcoming my guest, Lee Balcom, to the show today. Dr. Balcom is a marriage coach who believes something most therapists won't tell you. You don't need your spouse on board to start saving your marriage. For over two decades, he's helped thousands of people in hurting marriages discover that real change begins when one person decides to stop waiting and start acting. Lee doesn't do endless processing or dwelling on what's broken. Instead, he teaches people how to shift from me versus you thinking to seeing their marriage as a system they can influence, even when they feel completely alone in the effort. His approach is hope-infused and action-oriented because he knows that the people who find him are tired of feeling stuck and ready for a new direction. I'm excited to have you here. Lee, welcome.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Oh, thanks. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

Absolutely. I'm excited for the conversation. Tell us a little bit about your journey.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Yeah, so I was trained as a therapist and started getting disenchanted with that world even as I was doing my training. I did a couple of masters and a PhD, and by

From Therapy To Marriage Coaching

SPEAKER_01 2:14

the end of that, realized that really wasn't my realm. I was already working clinically and had a practice. But I was more attracted to a coaching approach that allowed me a couple of things that marriage therapy, which was what my specialty had been, did not allow. And so after you complain about things for long enough, you have to kind of say what you do think instead of what you don't think. And so I started writing a guide for people on how they could actually improve their marriage rather than what they were getting from therapy. And that ended up being the cornerstone of a program that is still around. It's the Save the Marriage System. And that went online in 1999. And by golly, it caught fire somewhere along the way. And I found myself suddenly coaching people around the world and helping people around the world. And since then, I've spent my time trying to help people understand the process of building a strong relationship, understanding where it went wrong, and understanding how to build back from there. And have been able to work with people really around the world. Fantastic. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Will you talk about the idea of pause button marriage? What does that mean? And how do people know when they're living in one?

SPEAKER_01 3:27

Yeah, so one of my complaints and frustrations

The Pause Button Marriage Explained

SPEAKER_01 3:30

with a marriage therapy was it was often caught up in trying to deal with what I consider to be the symptoms of the problem that would focus on the dysfunction without looking at why the dysfunction was running in the background. So here is where I noticed that most marriages get into trouble if they get into trouble. There are marriages that don't, but when they get into trouble, here's where it happens. You spend a lot of time, you find this person that you're attracted to, you build the connection, you build the relationship, and you say, hey, let's do this the rest of our lives. We can we can stay together. And then you go into the world doing what I call on-the-job training with no supervision, right? You're doing the work of being married with nobody there to help you. And so, whatever mistakes you make, you're baking them into your whole recipe for the relationship, the whole system of that. And so what people mistake is they're they think that they have the relationship, like we've got that locked down. We we have this now. So now that we have the relationship, we can go do these other things, building careers or parenting or interests, friends, whatever. The things that you went, I'm putting my energy into this relationship right now. And these other things were pushed to the side. And so when you think the relationship is set, because we now have the love to carry us through, you hit the pause button and say, we'll get back to us while I'm doing these other things. And that unintentional action, uh, it's more a subconscious action, but you you intend on just devoting more time to these other things that have been set to the side, is an unintentional action of disconnection. Relationships are either growing and expanding or they're shrinking and dying. And if you hit the pause button, which many couples do, that is the shrinking part. And eventually, if they don't reverse that, it's the dying part. And so that disconnection begins to infect the system. So where you were doing all of the build-up of connection, now you're doing the drop-off of disconnection that leads to what we see as the symptoms of that, the fighting and the frustrations, the feeling like the roommates, the passing ships in the night, those kinds of things that we hear about.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

I see. I see. Yeah, that's interesting because you have so many focuses after you're married, and but now we do have careers, we have all the things, and then maybe children. It would be interesting. That that's interesting that you need to. Do you have like exercises that help people focus back on their relationship and while all these other things are going on?

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Yeah, the if the path is disconnection that gets us into trouble, it's the path of connection that gets us back, and a couple of other things, but that's a couple of pieces. So let's go back to why people would do that though, because here you've devoted all this time to build this up, and then suddenly you're, I'll do these other things. There is that distinction. The Eisenhower matrix talks about the urgent versus the important. And so we have these things that feel urgent, whether it's building the career, building the practice, finishing education, doing all of these things that need to be done. The problem is not that those things don't need attention. Parenting kids need attention. The problem is that there is an inattention to the relationship. And so that begins to fracture it. Now let's talk before we get to what do you do, let's talk some about what levels there are. So I want to give a little, this is a diagnostic kind of piece. There are three levels of connection. And these most people, as I say them, can say, Oh, yeah, we were connected there

Three Levels Of Real Connection

SPEAKER_01 7:09

and early on, we were connected there and there. And one of these is where people fall in love, not just like I'm attracted to them, I'm interested in them, but I fall in love. So let's just track through. There's physical connection, that's loving touch. I share it. My my pups beside me, and she understands that really well. When I was just up on the bed last night, just I wasn't feeling great, and she hopped up beside me and she plastered herself against me. That's her physical connection and my physical connection. And it's a reciprocal thing. Same with my wife. When I'm hugging her, she was rubbing my head last night, going, Oh, bless your heart. And so that's physical touch. It's loving touch. And so that is the obvious one, except for people go, Oh, you mean sex? And my response is no, all loving touch. That's just a version of that. But hugs and kisses and caresses and hand holding and patting, all of those fit if it's loving touch. So that's the first level. That's the one we share with the warm-blooded creatures after that, because of our capacity of language and of referencing events, we now have another two, which is why humans are so deeply connecting as creatures. So the second one is emotional connection, and that's verbal and nonverbal, physical, nonverbal. Talking about a hug doesn't matter. Hugging matters. So this is the verbal and nonverbal. And as we've been talking, you've been doing that, right? If you're in agreement with me, you're nodding your head. So I know, okay, let's continue that conversation. That's a nonverbal matching my verbal. And with couples, the emotional connection follows really kind of two levels. And I think I've just pointed out the fact that these levels of connection are ways we connect with everyone. So it's not just in marriage, these are our skills of connection with anyone. Someone comes into my office and I shake their hand, physical connection. I start listening to their problems, emotional connection. And so I also do that with friends, right? That's just humans. This emotional connection is the two levels of getting each other and supporting each other.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

The getting part, it can be verbal or nonverbal. When my kids were younger and they were acting out, I could look at my wife, she could look at me, we give each other that look of understanding, and we didn't have to say anything, but we knew that we got each other and that we were standing together. We were in support of each other. Then there are also the conversations about the good things, the bad things supporting each other. And that's emotional connection. Then there's a third level of spiritual connection. Spiritual connection, when I say it, people will often go, oh, you mean religion? And my response is no, but that is a way that we express this because it's about our core values. We carry those values in lots of other areas too. So this level is where we're talking about our hopes and dreams, our fears, those kind of where we came from in life. That's a very vulnerable level that we generally don't share with just friends very much, and certainly not with strangers. We don't reveal that. And so that there is a deeper place for that in a marriage because we've said to this person, your hopes and dreams are now part of my life journey. So let's talk about that. And that's the journey. I said, This there's one that where people fall in love. That's the one. People will tell me, Oh, I was attracted to this person, and so we physical attraction. And so we started connecting with each other and emotional connection. And then we had this talk where they told me about where they came from and where they hoped to go in life, and that's where I fell in love. That's where I knew that was the person. So they've had that. And so that one is one that often falls away pretty quickly, as do often the others in the midst of the pause button. So people disconnect on those three levels. The reason I bring that up in this context is because now we have diagnosed where the disconnection comes from, but we've also given three targets. When you said what are their exercises, we've just named three targets of where you can start to work on reconnecting. And my suggestion for people is to look at it as a little more than where you are right now. And I say a little more because the people's tendency is to want to do a lot more when they suddenly go, oh my gosh, we are disconnected, we're in trouble, I need to do something. And they go with big actions in a relationship that doesn't have the connection to manage the big actions. And so that ends up collapsing more and people resist more. It's rare in my experience for both people to look at each other and go, wow, we're disconnected. We need to connect. If that is the case, that's pretty easy to solve. There, there's still some places for them to talk it through. But both people being motivated, as I so I have complaints about therapy, but as I've said, a bad therapist will help a couple where both of them want to get better, but a good therapist where one of them is resistant may not and may actually cause damage in the midst of a therapy process. That's one of my complaints. So that means that the individual who's trying to do it wants to do a little bit more, not a lot more.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Okay. And why do you believe one just one person can still influence the direction of a marriage?

SPEAKER_01 12:32

When you marry, you're creating a system. I call it

How One Person Changes The System

SPEAKER_01 12:35

being a we. We're a team now. And some couples don't make it to that. They don't actually change their thinking from you and me to we. And so they uh are struggling at that, but they're still very connected. There's still a subconscious piece of that. You've put your lives together, you've overlapped so many things in life financially and otherwise, that there is still a we. It's just often an oppositional we. We're fighting against each other. Whenever you put two people together, I think that there is a possibility of them either turning toward each other or fighting against each other. That's just our natural tendency. And if we don't have a team mindset, we often go from you and me instead of to we to you versus me. And so you're still creating a system. You've created a dance back to that on-the-job training with no supervisor to correct it. You're still creating a system. And the dance between you is based on these actions that get baked in between you. Whenever I've talked about the fact that one person can change things, I always get the it takes two to tango response. And my response is, you're already tangoing. You've been tangoing for a while. But it doesn't sound like the dance, it sounds like it's more of a tangle than a tango. And so we need to figure out how to get the dance back again. And so getting that dance back again means that one person can change their steps. And if they change their steps, meaning how they react, how they respond, how they act, then they can begin to change how the dance is going because whenever you change your steps of a dance, whoever you're dancing with has to adjust in some way. So that's how one person can begin to influence it. Now let's let me layer on one other piece. I talked about the fact that we humans have these three ways of connecting and that we need connection probably more than any other creature on the planet. So that means that we all have a place of being attracted to connection. We're drawn towards connection when it's there. When it's not there, we feel the hurt and we push away. But when it's offered, we often are drawn into it because we need that so much. And so if suddenly you can begin to unpause a relationship and start walking back towards those three levels of connection, the other person is often enticed by that. Not consciously. They're not going, oh, I think I want some of this connection. I think I'll move towards my spouse, but they feel drawn towards that because they have this deep, we all have this very deep unconscious, subconscious, and conscious desire for that connection. So we're drawn back into it.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

And okay. That's fascinating because it was there once, so now you're just re-it reigniting it. So what are some of the most common signs that emotional connection is slowly fading in a relationship? But you start talking about we get busy with job and friends and family, and

Signs You Are Drifting Apart

SPEAKER_02 15:34

the one thing you can look at and say, This is happening.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Yeah, so um I asked people to uh start with an assumption that they did hit the policy if they're talking with me, meaning they're they're in a struggle of the relationship. Just assume that. And then let's because the worse that happens is they're working on building a deeper connection. Not much bad comes from that, but there are some symptoms of the disconnection. When people tell me that they feel like they're just roommates, that's a pretty clear symptom. That's that's sign that the disconnection is there. I've heard people saying we're just ships passing in the night. That's just the disconnection. Conflict and resentment are also two pieces of that. Now, I want to just kind of put in a footnote though, that there are couples who realize that they are going to have conflict because they are two people with two different views of where life should go. And conflict can further their relationship if they see conflict is in service of the relationship, like it's moving us towards something else. But conflict that I'm talking about here is when it feels like it's you versus me, like I need to win this or I don't want to lose this. Those feelings of I I want my way are clear signs that they're not working as a team. So it's not conflict alone, but conflict that is based on struggles to get your way, that's a pretty clear sign that you've got it going. At some level, many times the conflict just is gone, also. There's just no communication. And that's a pretty clear sign that you're pretty far into that. And what replaces the communication is resentment. So whenever I have couples telling me that they have resentment that they have not been able to process, they're disconnected. Couples who can process the hurts along the way don't build up the resentment. Resentment is the anger, which is the hurt that's unprocessed. So hurt is the internal feeling. When I feel disconnected, I'm more aware of the person hurting me than how I might be contributing to that disconnection just by human nature. When I'm hurting, I'm focused on the pain, not on how am I furthering this pain. And so the hurt is the inward part, hurt, fear, or threat. Outwardly, that looks like anger. Anger unresolved looks like resentment.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

Okay. Right. Good good information. If if a person listening feels like they're the only one trying, how do they stay motivated to without becoming resentful or exhausted?

SPEAKER_01 18:09

So there is a starting point for that. But I so I want to get to the starting point and then push it a little further. The starting point, I ask people to tell me what are the reasons

Staying Motivated Without Resentment

SPEAKER_01 18:18

they want to save their relationship. Because honestly, rarely do I see someone who's I am so madly in love with this person and I want to pull them back in, as much as going, we're both pretty cold towards each other. I don't feel it either, but I want to try to save our relationship. So why? Why are you trying to save your relationship? And I asked people to give me 10 reasons they're going to save their marriage. And the reason I asked for 10 is because the first ones are going to be fear-based. And then we're going to get to values-based. Fear-based, because that's how our brain operates. It's first going to spout out what I most fear. And that's just the nature of that. And then we start drifting to why this really matters to me. So fear-based ones are usually the I don't want. I don't want to lose access to the kids. I don't want to lose uh access to the finances. I don't want to lose the house. I don't want to lose all of those I don't want to lose, or I don't want to have to date again. That's another one that I heard from people. That's there's a fear base of I won't. Yeah, it is. We've I've been out of this game for 30 years, I've often heard people say, and I don't know how to get back in it. I'm like, you're now projecting way into the future on a place instead of dealing with the fact that you've got a relationship in trouble. So the value ones, though, help us. I want to honor my commitment. I want to show my kids a way through the conflict. I want to break the multi-generational breakdown of marriages in my family. I want to honor the value I have towards whatever. Those are value-based. And the reason that's important is because the fear ones, they resolve. I think most people who work with people in the midst of a crisis know that the fear motivates you only to get started, never to continue. People finally go, Oh, yeah, I don't care about that anymore. I've gotten used to that. I've gotten used to the loss. And so then we're back to the, so then why does it matter? Right. If we had if our brain will adapt to the fear ones, then the ones that matter are value-based ones. And those can keep us going while we're doing the hard work. So the motivation. I think that we share a connection account in a marriage. And we're making deposits. And as couples are getting together, they're making all kinds of deposits into that connection account. Excuse me. And then you're spending capital when you have to take on hard things. You're spending that capital. And as long as you're staying in the positive, in the black, that can work. And so when people hit the pause button, they think that, oh, we're in the black. We'll be fine. And they don't notice the service fees that come along that keep on taking out the account, right? And draws it into the red. So when people recognize that, they can also recognize that they may need to be making some deposits for a while before they get to the black, at which point it feels safe for the spouse to begin to deposit again. And having that mindset can help them continue the process when they're up against that.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Interesting. Yeah, I love that. Having just a base point. So, in thinking about that, what are some of the small daily habits or behaviors that can begin rebuilding that trust and connection over time?

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Yeah, so consistency is important. Most of the time, people have consistently been disconnecting. So consistency in those small connections is important. Probably

Small Daily Habits That Rebuild Trust

SPEAKER_01 22:41

one of the most important things. We find consistency, safety, inconsistency. When people do these grand gestures, expecting it's going to turn it around, there's no consistency to that. So these are small things. And so one of the frames that I suggest people use is knowing that they're not feeling it themselves. What is the next right thing? I'm borrowing that from other people who have said that. What is the next right thing? And that helps them to think about what would be a loving thing to do here. And what would love do here? Those are two really Good formulas to process what's the next thing I want to do. These are small loving things that you can think through. What has made my spouse feel loved in the past? Let me return to those things because many people have have forgotten kind of those pieces along the way and gotten out of the habit. And so this is getting back into the habit and making sure that you change that habit. Doing this for three days doesn't do it. This is a consistency thing. The more consistent you are with showing those small actions and in not reacting shows that you that there is a shift in there. And it's if you're careful, it's not even a super conscious shift. The person's not going, Whoa, I noticed that you're acting very differently, but there's just a warming, a following of the cold. And so these are small actions that people can do, like sending just a short text. So my model of a one-way text is when you send somebody a text that says, was thinking of you hoping your day goes well. That's it. There's not a how are you, what's going on today, what's going on with the kids. It's just was thinking of you how hoping your day goes well. That's a very small connection point. And you can't do it five times a day or once every day, but you could do it a few times a week. And if I get that text, I'm like, that's really sweet of them to think of me. And to think well of me. Not just think of me, but think well of me. And so there's there are lots of these small ways of building in these small connection points that mean you're changing your habit toward connecting instead of toward disconnection.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

I love that. Just something that doesn't require a reply, just a touch. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Just a touch point. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

All right. In your experience, what's the biggest misconception people have about saving a struggling marriage?

SPEAKER_01 25:01

The big one is that they think that both people are going to have to commit to this in order to get it started. And one person can make that change. In fact, just observationally, that's how any change happens in life.

Misconceptions And When It Is Not Safe

SPEAKER_01 25:12

One person goes, huh, this isn't working well. That let's say that I realize I'm in bad health, and my doctor can say it all they want that you need to do something. But until I go, huh, I think I'm going to change these things, nothing's going to change. And it's the same in a relationship that it's often one person waking up to the disconnection, going, Yeah, I don't want the, I want the marriage. I don't want the disconnection. So I'm going to take this on. And recognizing that dance is going on means that you can step into. I haven't been able to find a term other than leadership at this point. You're trying to lead that process a little bit. Let me show you the way, not let me make you do this, but like a guide on the path. I'm looking at this path and let's walk down this path together. You eventually both people are going to join in that walk, but one person might be a little bit ahead, just pointing out the way. I've looked up here and I'm going to keep walking, and I hope you'll join me. That's invitational connection. And that's one of the biggest things that people have to remind themselves that they can't make or force connection. They can only invite it.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

Right. You can't lead a horse to water, as they say, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:22

You can lead a horse to water. But you can't make him drink. You just can't make him drink. The same here. You can create the environment, and the other person is going to have to decide are they going to step into that or not. One of the things that I just did a recently did a podcast on can every marriage be safe? So let me be clear. I don't think that is the case. I think some are toxic and some are too far gone. But I also know there's only one way to find out, and that is to start working on it. People have contacted me and said, if you could guarantee me that I can save my marriage, I will do whatever, pay whatever. And my response is, let me give you a reverse guarantee. I can guarantee you what happens if you don't take action. What happens if you do take action, I can't predict. There's another side to this. There's always another possibility. But I do know that if you stay where you are, where you're headed, because you've already stated that. So the reverse is what I can guarantee. And I can promise that the only way to discover whether a marriage can be saved is by working towards saving it.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Fantastic. It's yeah, I love the they seem like so simple steps if you've decided this is where you want to go. And I think when we get into a conflict or just the disconnect, we don't even think of those little things anymore. Gone were the days when you had left notes around the house and that doesn't happen anymore.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

And yet it could. And that's one of those small little things, right? I so one of my books is How to Save Your Marriage in three simple steps. And I start off with an understanding that simple does not mean easy. And we often forget that. But what amazes me is how people tend to complicate some things that are pretty straightforward, like the fact that marriages are built on connection. That's where they're built on connection and a team mindset. And that is pretty simple to understand and makes it simpler than going through lots of very convoluted understandings of what's going on that gets us feeling very stuck and confused. I'm looking for clarity, and connection is a fairly simple approach. Again, not easy, but simple.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

Just kind of going back to the beginning. So after helping thousands of couples over the years, what gives you the most hope about people's ability to reconnect and rebuild their relationships?

SPEAKER_01 28:42

So I get this. Hear from them and see when it's happening. And that that's why I keep doing

Hope, Regret, And Next Steps

SPEAKER_01 28:49

it. My whole thing in life. So back in my mid-30s, when I'd already begun some of this process, I got sick. And the doctors didn't think I had much of a prognosis, and clearly I recovered, but it made me feel like I was always in bonus time from then on. And so what do I do with bonus time? The biggest thing I want to do is leave the world better than I found it. And when I watch people restoring relationships, finding new ways forward, learning how to thrive in different ways, or if they are leaving a relationship, doing it in healthy ways, that's what keeps me going.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

Fantastic. And if somebody that's listening to the show today feels like their marriage has been on pause for a long time, what would you want them to remember before just giving up hope?

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Lots of people have been at that same place. In fact, I would suggest that the majority of people have found themselves at that place at some time, but there is a path back. And the path back is not disposing of the relationship right off. That may be the end result, but I would rather people, so when I have people using my material, I have a high bar and a low bar. And many people get the high bar, which is they save their marriage, they restore it, they have a great loving relationship. The low bar is they realize they can't, but they don't leave with regret. Regret is ugly for people because you can't go back and undo what you regret. That's the nature of it. You're stuck with that. And so some people get stuck in that regret for so long because they look back and go, oh, I should have tried harder. And uh, I want people to be able to, if they get to that point, say, I did everything I could. The strange thing is how many people who thought that they would be at that actually find themselves at having rebuilt a relationship and having rediscovered the connection between them.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Very interesting. I think the process is way simpler than it's. I'm sure it's hard in that moment, but to think about those little steps and going back to the beginning. This has been uh an enlightening conversation. I really appreciate your time today. I know that our listeners are going to want to reach out to you, following you. Where would be the best place for them to do that?

SPEAKER_01 30:59

So let's put two different places depending on where they are. I I kind of think of uh people, in fact, I use the image in um my uh program of people being on a boat. They, you know, they get married and now they're on the boat together, hit it down the stream. So they think it's going merrily along. Um maybe they're not even pinching to where the other is, but they suddenly hear in the distance a waterfall. And there are two different places where they might hear that waterfall. One is where they're still upstream from it and they realize they need to find, you know, a way out. And that is where I created my unpause app designed to help people unpause their marriage. And that is at the earlier kind of chronic disconnection stage where they there's not a threat of divorce, there's not a threat of separation. They just aren't connected. So the unpause app gives training and exercises and help for people. And the way apps work, they also send you reminders because we're trying to change the habits of how to do that. So that's the unpause app at unpauseyourmarriage.com. So unpause your marriage.com, the unpause app for those who are at that chronic disconnection. Then there are those who hear the waterfall very close to them and they know that they have a crisis at hand and they want to reverse engine and get out of the way. And that's the Save the Marriage system, and that's at Savethemarriage.com. So Savethemarriage.com is the program designed to help people who are truly at a crisis point to turn it around before it's too late. So unpause your marriage.com if it's chronic disconnection. Crisispoint, save the marriage.com.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

I love it. And we'll have both of those URLs in the show notes for the our audience. Lee, thank you so much for being here. This has been a very interesting conversation. I appreciate your time. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

That's a wrap on today's episode of the Leadership in Law Podcast. Before you go, I want to make sure that you know about something that could be a real game changer for your firm. If you've been doing the work, showing up, serving clients, but your marketing still isn't producing the caseload you know you deserve. That's exactly the problem Law Marketing Zone was built to solve.

Where To Get Help And Closing CTA

SPEAKER_02 33:00

My team and I work exclusively with law firms, and we don't do cookie cutter. We build a strategy around your practice, your market, and your goals. More high-quality leads, better cases, less stress, and more profit. Head over to LawmarketingZone.com/slash book a call and book your free case growth session today. The link is in the show notes. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next episode.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law Podcast. Remember, you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success. Head over to our website at lawmarketingzook.com. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources, and stay up to date on the latest episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us to review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with Vision and keep growing your firm.