Harry Handles It: Episode 36 with Robin Kencel

Successful careers do not always stay fulfilling. Many leaders eventually reach a moment when the work still looks successful from the outside, but the energy behind it has disappeared.

In this episode of Harry Handles It, Harry Nalbandyan sits down with Robin Kencel to discuss what reinvention actually looks like for high performers who refuse to stay stuck. Robin explains why curiosity is often the earliest signal that a career is reaching its natural end, how leaders can recognize when fulfillment has faded, and why reinvention rarely requires burning down what you have already built. Instead, she shares the strategic approach that allowed her to pivot industries while maintaining stability and momentum.

The discussion also explores the internal challenges behind major life transitions. Identity, reputation, financial responsibility, and fear of judgment all shape the decisions people make when considering a new direction. Robin outlines the mindset shifts that allow leaders to move toward something meaningful rather than simply walking away from something familiar.

The conversation covers:

• The framework for changing careers without abandoning stability
• Why curiosity is often the first signal that it is time for a new direction
• How contingency planning helps leaders navigate unexpected setbacks
• The role mindset plays in turning disruption into opportunity
• Why mentorship and habits compound over decades of growth
• How leaders redefine success as their priorities evolve

This episode is for founders, executives, and professionals who have achieved success but sense that their next chapter may look different from the one they originally planned.

If you have ever wondered how high performers reinvent themselves without losing momentum, this conversation offers a practical perspective on navigating change with intention.

"Harry Handles It" is a podcast hosted by Harry Nalbandyan. Each episode explores how top-tier performers navigate pressure, build discipline, and execute at a high level in business and life. Follow the show for direct conversations about performance, leadership, and intentional growth.

Transcript

Harry Nalbandyan (00:03.553)

Awesome. Welcome to the Harry handles it podcast. Today we've got the wonderful Robin can sell on who is a powerhouse of reinvention. She is aware of many hats and excels at all of those hat wearing activities. Am I right about that Robin?

Robin Kencel (00:21.678)

I have a lot of balls in the air, let's say that.

Harry Nalbandyan (00:24.773)

So tell our viewers a little bit about yourself and what makes you tick and how you find yourself being reinvented so many times.

Robin Kencel (00:35.468)

Well, Harry, think I have changed careers six times. And what makes me tick really is my curiosity. I love to learn and I like to think that I'm adding a little something to the universe. So every time I am just feeling a little restless or I lose a little energy, it's time to make a change. So my background, I have a classic background, I have an MBA.

My first chunk of my professional career was working for Fortune 100 companies and marketing. And I left after three different firms and opened a strategic planning practice. But to be honest, my husband and I came out of graduate school with no money. So a lot of debt.

So the first home I bought was on my MasterCard with a $3,500 down payment. And that started me on a passion for renovating historic homes. So alongside of all my careers, I was restoring historic homes. And eventually I left my day job to do that full time, which morphed into a real estate career that violated my

Harry Nalbandyan (01:34.649)

That's it for now.

Robin Kencel (01:52.813)

self-imposed, change your career every 10 times because you're probably not learning that much. And I stayed in real estate for 22 years. I wrote a couple books during that time. I've just changed careers again alongside of my professional career. I've been married for 40 years. We have two children, a grandchild. And I am my second career is I am a competitive ballroom dancer and most recently an actor. So

Harry Nalbandyan (02:10.146)

Incredible.

Robin Kencel (02:21.022)

I am very busy and I blame that all on my parents because they owned a nursing home at which I worked during holidays and in summers. And as you can imagine, a nursing home never closes. So we were never allowed to sit still at home. Our family engine was productivity.

Harry Nalbandyan (02:43.983)

love that. That is a lot of shifts. Now, a father of two daughters myself, how did you find yourself?

Harry Nalbandyan (02:56.643)

Motivate I don't know if motivated is the right word But how did you find the courage to let go of what was a success in the past to try to sign? know find something different

Robin Kencel (03:06.518)

Okay, so first of all, being a parent, you know that there's no such thing as balance. You're just attending to whoever's screaming the loudest at that moment. So I think the first thing we have to put out there for all your female viewers and male viewers is we're already doing a lot, raising a family and juggling a career. And it is gutsy to make a change. What I would say is that every time I made a change, I did not let go of the last career.

until the new career was firmly planted. So one career I didn't mention is I had a span of being in the interior design world. I had an incredible mentor and that kind of went alongside renovating homes. I didn't stop doing my previous job until that was firm. And I didn't step into real estate until I had my first deal close. You know, it is both lucky

and maybe a little wise, that I recognized real estate would bring together my business background, my marketing background, my knowledge of the town, understanding homes and what goes into them in design. So I started out and I was in the top percentage of Greenwich, Connecticut real estate almost from the get go. But I think that's a combination of knowing your skills, following your passion.

and being in the right place at the right time.

Harry Nalbandyan (04:36.049)

Let me ask you this. I mean, a lot of our listeners may be successful in the traditional sense, but maybe feeling a little bit unfulfilled with whatever they're doing. How do you handle that feeling of leaving a good career when you have responsibilities? And I know you mentioned, you know, don't fully leave it until something else is established. But can you walk us through some of those decisions and hard points that you found along the way?

Robin Kencel (05:01.462)

Yeah, yeah. And I'd like to talk a little bit about, because I think you're talking underneath it about what happens when you're not fulfilled? What happens when you're all of a sudden looking for more meaning in your life, which is actually what I'm doing now with my Aging with Purpose initiative. One of my backgrounds is, and this was a big decision, about seven years ago, I decided to become a spiritual director. Now, if you don't know what a spiritual director is,

Harry Nalbandyan (05:09.658)

Yeah.

Robin Kencel (05:29.398)

I'm Catholic, so it's in the Catholic faith. And a spiritual director is someone who walks aside you. You want a more closer personal relationship with God. And I am not your therapist. I am not a Bible study. I am listening to your life. And I'm just helping you notice and pay attention to where God is operating in your life. So.

Some of my comments will come out of that, but I would say, listen, the beginning of a big life change kind of presents itself. Are you starting to feel restless? Is there something like when you were energized and you couldn't wait to get to the office, but suddenly that spark is gone?

That was it for me. I couldn't look at one more business plan in marketing. just, God forbid, I didn't care about Dixie cups. I didn't care what the design should be. I didn't care about hairspray when I was working for Clarel after a while. So you get to a point where the joy is gone. And I think that's the first indication that, gosh, I need to make a change. And then we could go through the whole process of what does it mean to discern to make a good change. And as you say, it could be scary.

A, we don't like change. B, we have financial responsibilities. And is it hard to look to toss aside what we've known ourselves to be? Which, by the way, a lot of people face when they face retirement. But everyone knows you as an attorney. my gosh, all of a sudden you don't want to be an attorney anymore. How is that going to affect your family? Everyone who knows you, are they going to think less of you? And we can walk through that. But I would say you've got to get comfortable with

being true to yourself. This is not walking away from something. If you can mindset shift to, this is walking towards something that is truer to me.

Harry Nalbandyan (07:23.821)

No, but I mean that resonates a lot. Sorry, give me one second. think my battery is not plugged in.

Harry Nalbandyan (07:41.957)

Sorry about that. We're back.

Harry Nalbandyan (07:46.405)

being the spiritual director, mean, deep listening is a part of these skills, right? Where you need to really understand where somebody's coming from, what the source of unfulfillment is and what they should walk towards, not necessarily give up. Like you said, that's good way to reframe it. And being in the law business and helping mainly people who have been injured, sometimes catastrophically, I have to...

Robin Kencel (07:52.397)

Yeah.

Harry Nalbandyan (08:13.615)

be this counselor for my clients to and we run this course as well. Listen, your life today as it exists wasn't the same as it was before. But you have different opportunities, new opportunities. And what can we walk towards like you said, that will help bring back that fulfillment to your life. It's something that people struggle with a lot.

Robin Kencel (08:35.5)

Yeah, because it is redefining who they thought they were. Now, listen, if you do have a faith background, if you do have a faith tradition, obviously you can start at the point where just throwing it up to God or whatever, know, Yahweh, whatever is your higher power, and you can start there, but that's very not...

feeling and just up there on a practical level, the things you can start to do. If it's really catastrophic, I'm sure you find this. Sometimes I will say, this isn't really something we're going to solve in spiritual direction. This isn't something I can help walk you with. You're going to need professional help. So sometimes it is down there. I'm thinking about a friend of mine who just passed who had multiple sclerosis since she was 35, and she was an author and she couldn't use her hands.

So that was amazing. She was very, very strong and she was able herself to keep figuring out ways to feel relevant. So if you're strong, you can start with, all right, let me start thinking about what my other gifts are. Let me start imagining, and this is part of discernment. Let me imagine different lives and what could feel okay to me. And you sit in that discernment and you see how you feel.

And if you're feeling better and you're getting peace and you can imagine it in a good way, that could be something you explore. If it's getting you tight and you're uncomfortable, you know, that's a dissolution and you're not going to go down that path.

Harry Nalbandyan (10:11.821)

all great points. Along the same lines, there's something that I've heard you talk about, you know, called timetables. When is it when does like when is a red flag or when is when does somebody when should somebody know that they've either been in the same role for too long, or relationship that's too long or anything like that.

Robin Kencel (10:19.736)

Yeah.

Robin Kencel (10:30.86)

Yeah. let's talk about the fact that not all clocks are the same. I think there's two or three different clocks, right? There is the clock where it's urgent. There is a safety issue and you just need to make an immediate change. So that is going to take care of itself. And then there's a kind of clock where an occurrence happened that maybe it's not safety, but there's a death.

You've been told you have to move. Your job has been eliminated. That is one where you do need to take more time in discernment. And you know, you're not going to have a choice. So starting to open up the doors is going to be more important. But I think the one that's most interesting is when you can do it on your own terms. When you have your terms and again, you're just not fulfilled.

and you realize, okay, this is a door that's closing, I'm choosing to walk into a different door, then that's the one where you can take the time, try different things out. You it could be even friendships. You're rethinking your friendships, you're rethinking your relationships, but it all takes courage. And courage isn't something that comes easily to some of us.

It's going to be uncomfortable. I think recognizing that you're going to have periods that you're not comfortable is part of this journey.

Harry Nalbandyan (11:59.555)

Yeah, mean growth doesn't happen through comfort. It happens through those vulnerable spots that you're in or the uncomfortable positions that you're put in or some of the difficult decisions you have to make throughout your life. I think at least for me in the small amount of time I've been here, those are the biggest growing points that I've realized in my own path, in my own journey.

Robin Kencel (12:07.885)

Yeah.

Robin Kencel (12:20.054)

Yeah, yeah. And you know, I have the same because I think anyone who's lived a life has lived, you know, some of the seven biggest stressors of life. We've come across divorce in someone in our family, death, moving, all the financial and getting good at. I'm really big on contingency plans, so I always have a contingency plan in my bucket. And honestly, that comes from the fact that for many years I needed it. In fact, one friend one day said to me,

when something new and not good was going on, what is it with you? There's always something. And I said, I'm not choosing it. mean, honestly, I wasn't choosing it. It was just a complicated season in my family's life. But getting good at how I managed it, I always wanted to be known not that things were happening to me, but that I was going through them with grace.

And I really worked at that. I worked at A, having a contingency plan so I could pivot. And I do that even today, which takes a lot of creativity. Two years ago in the United States Ballroom Dance Championships, I broke my foot. I was supposed to be competing in the Miss America Senior pageant, Miss Senior America, three weeks later representing Connecticut. So I needed a huge pivot.

I could not participate in the pageant. And all of a sudden I had 16 weeks of healing on my hands. And after I cleared out my contacts, I just started thinking about a contingency plan. And that's where I found acting. Because I thought about what did I always want to do that I never had time to do that doesn't involve me walking around. And A, talk about like.

getting new synapses going, the whole brain-body connection. All of a sudden I had to memorize scripts. I was in a community around people mostly in their 30s that I would never have met. So there was all these benefits. I'm now seriously hooked and taking acting classes weekly. But you know, I think it's A, contingency plans, B, having creativity, but Harry, probably the most important thing, at least for me, is having this positive mindset.

Robin Kencel (14:31.982)

Maybe you could call it Pollyanna. I don't call it Pollyanna. I just call it... I want to get through life always figuring out the good stuff, figuring out the right side. So even in the darkest of days, I annoyingly maybe can find something bright. And I don't know, I call it a skill and I think it's a good skill that if we can develop it, it does get us through the changes that are thrust upon us.

and even when we're making choices that we're not quite clear about.

Harry Nalbandyan (15:05.219)

I mean, that resonates so deeply with me because in our profession, I mean, it's an adversarial relationship that we have with the other side, not necessarily with our clients. Sometimes that happens. But the other side is trying to undo everything that you're trying to do in this line of work. So it could be, you know, it's a lot of this. It can be a lot of that.

Robin Kencel (15:23.714)

Yeah.

Harry Nalbandyan (15:24.697)

But if you take a different spin on it, reframe it and find an opportunity to create some sort of positive light. When I tell my team this and I try to spread this message to them, it's really changed the way they look at the cases, changed the way they interact with clients and the way they interact with the other side. And I think that makes a big difference.

Robin Kencel (15:42.414)

Yeah. Yeah. So when I was in real estate, I was at an ultra luxury market. And, you know, it was a lot of intense negotiating because you're dealing with not just major assets, but you're also dealing with huge personalities much like you. And I really did find once I shifted into this, I'm always going after collaboration. I'm always going after making sure I'm putting on their hat.

and seeing the way they're thinking. And I'm sure you do this where you try to get to know the other side and how they think and how they even negotiate so you can meet them in a place that's comfortable for them.

Harry Nalbandyan (16:22.277)

Yeah, 100%. And another thing I've seen you talk on some of your other talks is how to succeed in male dominated industries if you're a female, if you're a woman. Can you give, what should I do as a father for my two young daughters to make sure that... Tell me.

Robin Kencel (16:36.12)

Yeah.

Robin Kencel (16:42.528)

I love this topic. I love this topic because I was so fortunate. I was raised, my father and my grandfather, who was also involved in the nursing home. Now remember, I was born in 1958. You know, the glass ceiling was just broken. I went to Georgetown undergrad and I think there was only seven classes of women before me. So I was in a very male dominated society growing up.

but my grandfather and my father never made me feel less than. I had an older brother, a sister, another brother. We didn't have money enough for all of us to go to private school. My brother went first before I was able to. It didn't matter. In terms of how they made me feel, they always made me feel, those two men, that I could accomplish anything I want. And honestly, probably since five years old,

I've had that mindset. When I was in college, I seriously thought I might become the first female president. It's probably incredibly embarrassing to even say that, you know, that was then, this is now. So I think the biggest thing men can do for their daughters is keep reinforcing that you are capable and you don't have to pit a girl against a boy. We don't have to make it a gender thing. Just...

Harry Nalbandyan (18:02.532)

Yeah.

Robin Kencel (18:03.36)

you're capable, let's figure out your gifts, let's figure out what you're interested in. You know, I love the stories where maybe you're not great at something, but if you put enough energy into it, you can become great. I've been a competitive ballroom dancer for 22 years, and I have a number of national titles. Look, part of it was gift, but I have two replaced hips. I had to rebuild my body. I had certain limitations of my body that I had to work

really hard to overcome. And I had to keep thinking about new ways to make myself the best I could be, which is another reason why I took up the acting. So even if your daughter has a dream that you're like, I'm not sure that's really a realistic dream, you know, just give her the positivity unless it's so unrealistic, maybe a little redirection wouldn't be a bad thing.

Harry Nalbandyan (18:53.509)

But being myself, like the most unreasonably optimistic person that I know, maybe now next to you, it'll be hard to say no to them. You always want to encourage, I always like to find a path of least resistance to whatever goal there is. And I feel like there's always, where there's a will, there's a way.

Robin Kencel (19:08.856)

Yeah.

Robin Kencel (19:15.587)

Yeah.

I agree with you and I want to add one other thing besides being positive because I observe this in today's young parents.

And you know, it's partly society and the distractions that are around us is really pay attention and listen to what your children are saying when you're with them. It makes me so sad when I see parents who are on their phones when they're with their kids, because think about how that makes somebody feel. It makes them feel unimportant. It makes them feel that you're valuing the phone more than you're valuing your time with them.

Harry Nalbandyan (19:55.941)

Yeah, that's something my wife and I work on constantly. It's like when we get home, put the devices away. It's about the kids. So that also resonates pretty hard, too, because it is distracting. Even take the kids out of the equation when you're with your husband, when you're with your wife or when you're with your partner. The second somebody starts to take that phone out and starts to do the doom scroll thing, it's like, you know, are we hanging out or are you hanging out with your phone?

Robin Kencel (20:22.028)

Yeah, plus it's good modeling. I was at a talk last week with the past governor of Virginia, Glenn Youngkin, and he was giving an amazing statistic when he banned cell phones from the high school. When you heard the way the test scores went up and all of the positivity that came out of getting rid of the cell phones, let's also say this. Not only are you making your relationship with the child stronger, you're doing the child a favor.

you're helping them have better habits so they can attend to whatever they really should be attending to.

Harry Nalbandyan (20:56.653)

Yeah, that's always like a tough you want to give your kids access to everything that they're access to. But then you also want for them to do the best that they can possibly do, you know, in those scenarios. No. Talk to me about mentorship and what that means to you and how how you've embodied that those principles of mentorship.

Robin Kencel (21:00.502)

Yeah. Yeah.

Robin Kencel (21:08.236)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a tough one.

Robin Kencel (21:23.96)

Yeah, you know, it's funny because whenever someone comes to me formally looking for a mentor and I embark on one,

I have to say it's not always as successful as I like because it's a little bit forced. What I find most successful for me, and I'm sure there's listeners of yours that have very successful, more formal mentoring, is what I would call natural mentorship. And that means making yourself available. Not that it just happens, but if there's somebody in your world...

that you can be a mentor to, then you take on that responsibility. So that's one of my most favorite parts when I had a real estate team and I've had a number of different teams is, you know, really sharing my knowledge. I think part of being a good mentor is being very generous with both your knowledge and your time and also being a really good listener. I mean, it's no different than with your own kids being a good micro listener with what they're saying.

but also watching their body language, watching how they operate and being very careful at how you give your input so that, you know, it's never obviously shaming and it's never making someone not feel good, but it's still instructive. My acting coach is constantly giving me feedback.

on not just my scenes, but we do a lot of prep for podcasts and TV appearances and all that. And, you know, that's really helpful. But it's always couched in a very positive way to the point where I can say, just give it to me straight. It's OK. I want to I want to grow. So, you know, what are we leaving? I think a lot about legacy and what are we leaving when we're no longer here? We all know it's not the things it's.

Harry Nalbandyan (23:17.198)

percent.

Robin Kencel (23:17.334)

And it's not even always what we say. Maybe it's a little bit what we say, but it's really how we make people feel.

Harry Nalbandyan (23:23.993)

Right, there's that saying it's no matter what you say people will forget it But they'll never forget the way you made them feel you know years down the line

Robin Kencel (23:27.811)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, one thing, one thing I focus a lot on in mentoring is the idea of habits, because I think habits are really important, not just for success on a professional level, but just to be effective in your own life. And, you know,

There's a few things that I've been talking a lot about New Year's resolutions and what happens when you fall off a wagon. How do you make a good resolution? And one thing I always say is there's no one time where you have where you want to make a resolution or decide you want to improve in some area. There's whatever is a good time that you feel emotionally, OK, I'm ready to do to take on something and you have the space. And, you know, I think it's really important to make it a little fun.

Take micro steps so you're not going to fail, but you're going to succeed and make sure they're measurable so you can pat yourself on the back as you're going along.

Harry Nalbandyan (24:28.901)

Yeah, like, you know, what the what the topic of mentorship and leading a team of lawyers trying to make the community better for everybody.

Robin Kencel (24:40.451)

Yeah.

Harry Nalbandyan (24:41.559)

It's a tough balance of how to give instruction, how somebody receives instruction. Like you said, sometimes it's couched in the mountain of positivity, but sometimes you just need it straight. And some people can't just some people don't respond to the, give it to me straight. So it's always a mix. How do you find?

Robin Kencel (24:57.4)

Yeah.

Harry Nalbandyan (25:03.557)

throughout the years, your way of finding the right communication tool with your team members so that they receive effective communication and it's not something they resent.

Robin Kencel (25:09.016)

Yeah.

Robin Kencel (25:13.26)

Yeah, so first off, it's not a one size fits all. And I think I learned that from parenting. I parented our two children very differently because they are very different. And I believe it's the same thing with people on your team. Everyone's going to be motivated by something different. Everyone comes in with a certain level of self-confidence. And the way you receive feedback is going to be heard through your history.

So if you grew up in a family where you were criticized a lot or you were put down a lot or you weren't made to feel valued, then you're going to be more sensitive, most likely, to the way you get feedback versus somebody who's coming in with confidence and a desire to be better. knowing who you're dealing with before you're giving the feedback is really helpful because then you can tailor it to a way that they will hear it.

And if you don't know them that well, I would say you begin with less is more. I mean, just starting with a little something to see how it's received, to see how it's implemented. And you know, Harry, I'm sure you have people on your team like this. There's some people who are just not going to take some constructive criticism and are going to do things their way. But there's others that will take it in and...

keep some, throw some, and do it their way. And that's the exciting ones to mentor.

Harry Nalbandyan (26:42.329)

Yes, yes. And I love that because they'll take bits and pieces and they'll reiterate on them by themselves, which is the coolest part. And to see that transformation through the years. love seeing that my team members, one of our core values is unstoppable growth. And that's something that we like to talk about a lot. No matter what it is, just make sure you keep growing. I love your story about the competitive ballroom dancing, reinventing yourself in real estate, reinventing yourself in business and your new

Robin Kencel (26:49.315)

Yeah.

Robin Kencel (27:02.893)

Yeah.

Harry Nalbandyan (27:11.673)

Focus now Aging with purpose

Robin Kencel (27:12.652)

Yeah, aging with purpose. And you know, that's really funny because I think that came out of just the years of spiritual direction and my own journey. But part of this Miss Senior America pageant was you had to give your philosophy of life in 35 seconds to the audience and the judges. And I would say that's a great exercise for anybody to do.

Harry Nalbandyan (27:35.781)

interesting.

Robin Kencel (27:35.79)

It's kind of along the lines of this ethical will that people are doing where they're writing their manifesto for their family and their mission statement for their family. But this was great. And being a philosophy major as an undergrad, I probably put in 350 hours to come out with 35 seconds. But I was so interested in, you know, really distilling what it is that's important to me.

and what it is I want to share with others. And as I started this journey, a couple of different people said, well, you're going to be writing a book. And at first, I mean, I've written two books, they're parenting books. I hadn't thought about that at all. And then I thought, OK, why not? And so now I'm on this journey writing this book that will be related to thinking about how you age, what's the meaning of your life, what's a framework you can

sort of think about it in and going through the process.

Harry Nalbandyan (28:33.797)

Well, that's really incredible, Robin. This is wonderful conversation I had with you today. Can you tell our listeners a little bit more about where to find you, where to find more information about you, your books, and everything that you do?

Robin Kencel (28:47.17)

Thank you so much. So the fun side of me you can find on Instagram, Robin Kensell, you'll see the wacky acting and everything else. And the more serious side you'll find on the website, robinkensell.com with my writings.

Harry Nalbandyan (29:01.797)

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for the conversation, Robin. This was a real treat.

Robin Kencel (29:05.858)

Thank you, Harry.