Understanding ADHD: Insights, Challenges, and Strategies (with Dr. Dan Yost)

In this episode, we dive deep into the world of ADHD with our guest, Dr. Dan Yost.

In addition to having ADHD themselves, Dr. Dan is a clinical psychologist who has been doing therapy for 15 years, specializing in working with adults with ADHD.  Dr. Dan is an occasional pro wrestler on the side and we think that's pretty neat.

• WHAT WE’RE TALKING ABOUT:
  • Understanding ADHD: What ADHD is and why not everyone has it.
  • Common Challenges: Day-to-day struggles faced by people with ADHD and practical tips, tricks, and solutions.
  • ADHD in the Workplace: The importance of taking ADHD seriously in professional settings.
  • ADHD Medication: Exploring the benefits and drawbacks of ADHD medication.
  • Harnessing ADHD Strengths: How to use ADHD to your advantage by leaning into your strengths and tailoring them to become power ups .
  • Finding Support: Resources and steps for those needing additional support.
  • Diagnosing ADHD: What to do if you suspect you have ADHD but are undiagnosed.

From personal stories to expert tips, we explore the challenges and strategies for managing ADHD. Whether you're diagnosed with ADHD or know someone who is, this episode offers valuable insights and practical advice we think you'll find preettttaaaay, preettttaaaaaaay, preettttaaaaaaaaaaaay helpful.

*****DISCLAIMER:  The Underwire Podcast provides content for informational purposes only and is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Jess G. and Ryan Rainbro are not medical professionals, and the opinions expressed on the podcast are based on their personal experiences, research, and general knowledge. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. ******

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Transcript

1:57

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the first official episode of the Underwire podcast, supporting you when life needs a lift. I'm your host, Jess, joined with my co-host, Ryan. And today... We are talking about all things ADHD with our very special guest and good friend of mine, Dr. Dan Yost. In addition to having ADHD themselves, Dr. Dan is a clinical psychologist who has been doing therapy for 15 years. They specialize in working with adults with ADHD, and it's also worth mentioning that Dr. Dan is an occasional pro wrestler on the side. So let's dive right into it. So Dan, before we get started, I want to do this thing where you name one person that you're grateful for or appreciative of and why. I'm going to say I'm grateful for and appreciative of you, Jess Goldie. I like that we have known each other for a very, very, very long time. We really have. We kind of like go in and out of each other's orbits for a while. Like we don't see each other or talk to each other for a while. And then we come back together and I'm just like real stoked that you're doing this podcast that you asked me to be on it. That I think it's going to be a really interesting podcast because, when you gave me like the list of topics, I was like, 'Oh man, I want to do like all these topics.' I like all these things. I like wrestling, video games, and ADHD. So I'm just happy to be here. And I'm happy you asked me to be here. I love that so much. Thank you. We're happy to have you. So thank you so much. My pleasure. I like the statement. I love ADHD. I love it too. I have a lot of enthusiasm for her, which is I guess why I'm on this episode. That's great. That's great. That enthusiasm is going to come in handy because we're going to be talking about it here for the next little bit. But Jess, tell us what we are talking about today. All right. Yeah. So today we're talking about ADHD, all things ADHD. We're going to be talking about why everyone does not have it. We're going to define what it is. We're going to discuss common struggles and challenges people with ADHD face in their day-to-day, you know, how it impacts and affects their lives. We're going to provide some helpful tips, tricks, solutions, things that I do in my personal day-to-day because I do have ADHD. We're going to also discuss why ADHD needs to be taken seriously in the workplace. Maybe touch a little bit on ADHD meds, some benefits, drawbacks. Then we're going to talk about how to use ADHD to your advantage. We're going to lean into strengths, tailor them to be our power-up. So, how can we make our ADHD work for us? We're going to talk about where to go, what you can do if you're in need of some additional support, and we're then going to talk about what you do if you feel like you could potentially have ADHD but are undiagnosed and maybe figure out what to do with that. That is what we are going to cover today. Well, my first question about ADHD personally is, and Dr. Dan, you can. helped me understand is what is the difference between ADHD and ADD? Because when I was younger, everyone had ADD and everyone was on Ritalin, so much so that I felt left out because I wasn't on it. I remember asking my mom, like, 'Can I take Ritalin?' Because my friend Justin was on Ritalin. And she would not let me, and I was left out. Then there was a South Park episode where all the kids got on Riddle Out, and I didn't have that either. So they're similar letters. Are there any similarities between the two diagnoses? Yes, yes. I think what happened was, like, as we... Psychology professionals updated the DSN, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. From one version to the other, they condensed ADD and ADHD all into ADHD. So it's all just ADHD now, but there's different kinds of ADHD. There's one that is like primarily hyperactive type. So that would be the H in ADHD, the hyperactivity. Then there's the predominantly inattentive type, which probably would have been called ADD back in the day because they don't have the hyperactive symptoms. And then there's the combined presentation when someone has both hyperactive and inattentive symptoms. So Dan, can you tell us what exactly, what is ADHD? What is ADD? What is ADHD for people who don't know what that is? I'm going to try my best without just reading like three pages out of this book straight up. But like I was saying that there's these kind of like different categories. Like the hyperactivity type, you might see someone who has to like fidget a lot, who needs a lot of like stimulation, who seems like they have very high energy. With someone with the inattentive type. They have difficulty staying on task, like not just focusing, but focusing for maybe the most appropriate thing at that time. So, for example, someone could like be like. focusing real hard on the video game that they're playing for like four hours straight, which might lead to their parents saying like, you don't have ADHD, you can play video games all day. But that's because that is more interesting. So what might be more appropriate for that person at the time would be like doing their homework for school so that they don't get in trouble. And something a lot of people with different kinds of ADHD share in common is difficulty starting tasks that are not really fun. This leads to a lot of procrastination and stuff like that. Yeah, so someone might also, you know, have difficulty following through with instructions, like difficulty organizing tasks. They may be losing things a lot, distracted by, you know, birds flying outside or someone talking 30 feet away. Uh, I have this vivid memory of like trying to take the SATs and I could hear like someone in the hallway just kind of like walking around and like coughing. I was like, 'Someone needs to shut that guy up!' I can't think. Yeah, I feel I feel the same exact way. Like my my blood starts to boil when I hear something so much so that, you know, I have to wear noise-canceling headphones or something just so that I can be in peace because it will just interrupt and distract me from anything that I'm doing. Yes, yes, yes. Well, Dr. Dan, you mentioned that, you know, one of the symptoms is things like not being able to easily start a task that isn't as fun or, you know, being distracted by noises and stuff. But I would say, you know, most people would probably say that it's difficult for them to start a task that they don't want to do or, you know, can be distracted. So how are people with ADHD differently affected than just like a regular person who doesn't want to do unfun things? So I think this can maybe move into that question of, what does that, you know, people saying that everyone's got ADHD or everyone's got a little bit of ADHD. And that's like kind of correct because what a diagnosis of ADHD is saying is like basically like you have, you know, a number of these symptoms. Everyone might have difficulty starting something or everyone might have difficulty with focus or attention sometimes. But if you're a child and you have six or more of the symptoms, that qualifies for ADHD. And if you're an adult or an adolescent, like 17 or older, I think it's just five symptoms that are necessary to get the diagnosis. So what it really is, is a shorthand. The diagnosis is a shorthand for saying, 'you've got a whole bunch of these things,' which is also why someone, one person's ADHD might look very different from another person's ADHD, because there's all these different symptoms and you just need five or six of them to qualify. And so, like I mentioned earlier, when I was younger, everyone was prescribed Ritalin for their ADD. Is there like a catch-all prescription that people are typically prescribed now for ADHD, especially with how prevalent we see it in society? I'm going to make one claim here that I'm a psychologist, so I'm not a psychiatrist. I don't have a medical license, and so I don't prescribe medication. So this is definitely not my area of strength. But what I can say is, like what I've seen is that, you know, Adderall is probably one of the most prescribed medications for ADHD. There's also Vyvanse, which is another stimulant that seems to help people who Adderall is not helpful for. And then there's also non-stimulant ADHD medications, which work a little bit differently. So something like Stratera or generic name, Adamoxetine. So there's a whole bunch of different medications now, which is good because it seems like we're in this like years long ADHD production shortage that isn't letting up anytime soon. Yeah, that's really crazy. That's honestly one of the reasons why I am not medicated for my ADHD. I was when I was younger. I took Ritalin. I was one of those people. I took Ritalin, Ryan. And then I switched to Concerta through college. I honestly hated how both of those things made me feel when I was in middle school and had to take Ritalin. I would actually get made fun of because I had to go to the office to take my medicine and the kids around me would just give me a hard time. about it I would have to set alarms to remember to have to take it and it was just this big thing in college it just the concerto I just didn't like how it made me feel I didn't like having to rely on something um and so I just kind of wean myself off of that and just learned a whole bunch of different ways to cope, which we'll talk about that, I guess, in a little bit. But yeah, so I kind of want to go back to talking about why. Not everybody has, you know, the ADHD diagnosis, because something that I've experienced in my personal life is, especially in the workplace, is that. You know, you hear everybody, oh, well, yeah, it's just my ADHD. And to me, to somebody that actually has it and that struggles with it, I feel like, yes, people may have. similar different symptoms, you know, a little bit, a little bit of part a little bit of part B, but not to the extent or the extreme that a true. ADHD person or a, you know, is neurodivergent? What is the difference between neurodivergent and neurotypical? Are those terms that should be applied for an ADHD, somebody that has ADHD? I guess so. Maybe. So I have some feelings about this. No one really has a clear definition for these things because it's all just kind of like. Trying to express our different experiences, like there's no definition for 'like'— a neurotypical person, because, like, everyone's kind of weird in some way, right? And very true, you know, a neurodivergent person, there's no definition of that, because it just means, you know, because, like, you're kind of different than a neurotypical person. Which we also can't define, but you know, it seems like, kind of, in our culture, the shorthand for neurodivergent tends to group in like ADHD or autism spectrum or obsessive-compulsive disorder or other things— just basically anything to say, like, 'Hey, I'm not whatever the typical thing is and because of that, like, I might function in some different ways or have some different needs. Yeah. Well, because also in school or in the workplace, you'll never hear somebody be like, 'Oh, well, you know, oh, it's just my autism, you know?' what I mean you always hear like oh it's just my ADHD like it's this cute little thing and it makes me so mad because that's something that I really struggle with that impacts me in my day to day and then when somebody that is just like you know that has like a normal brain or whatever the hell you would like to call it you know, is like joking around about it. It's like, well, that's kind of fucked up because, you know, that's something that I have to struggle with every single day. Yeah, I think people with obsessive compulsive disorder have a similar complaint a lot where someone's like, oh, I'm so OCD because I, you know, advertise my books. And it's like that's like being, you know, anal or particular about something is not the same thing as having obsessive compulsive disorder. And I think the disorder is the key word there because it's like it's disruptive. It is causing problems in somebody's life. Right. What are ways that you feel like you can be empathetic to those people that don't understand what you're going through and help them understand your experience, because I'm sure they're not saying those things in your workplace to make you feel bad about your conditions. Yeah. Are you asking me or are you asking Dr. Dan? I'm asking you both. You're the one that's struggling with it. And Dr. Dan is going to be the one that puts the tools in our tool belt. Yeah, okay, that's good. Well, you know, when that happens, that when that happens to me, I'm well, when I was younger, I just would like to share that I definitely in areas where I should have asked for help. I struggled because I was embarrassed to know that I it was okay for me to ask for help or to ask for some sort of accommodation and now I just don't give any fucks I'm just like well this is how this is how my brain works and this is what I need and if somebody if somebody does say something like oh it's just my adhd uh you know i don't really i'm not super like i don't really take that personally but i do try to now advocate for myself whenever necessary and just make people aware what whatever that looks like I don't know that could be different you know if it's just posting stuff on social media about like things that I struggle with or just information uh good information you know that comes from like a reliable source not just like you know betty betty down the street says that you should do this um what what else i i don't know like i'll ask for okay here's a good example So when I was in high school, I really struggled. Well, I still struggle with like taking tests. When I was in high school, I could have had every opportunity to. get extra time on tests because my comprehension really struggles when I read. So it takes me just a long time to be able to read and digest and understand what a sentence means, especially one of my biggest pet peeves about tests are the people who... Make the tests to test to take the test and not the actual information on the test. Right. So when you get one of those questions that. is just like a double negative and then wording things all crazy to crazily to make you trip up and not actually test you on the knowledge. It's a nightmare. Yeah. And I really struggle with that. And when I was in high school and college, I could have gotten like extra time on tests or, you know, one of those aids that you would see people that have that like help you kind of like. talk out whatever you're reading. And I just was too embarrassed to ask for that. Now, if I had that opportunity, I would take take that up in a heartbeat. Some of the things like I asked for accommodations at work, because I just work better. I lean into what my brain needs, so that means a lot of movement. I got a standing desk both in the office when I'm at home. I seldomly use it, but I purchased one for myself— it was like the best adult purchase ever. Combined with a walking pad, it has been like night and day difference. Because my body, I need to move all of the time for my brain to be able to just chill the fuck out and do the work I need to do, especially if it's like— just all this work, like sitting and writing emails or whatever. It's like, if I'm not moving, if I'm not fidgeting, I can't pay attention. So I just do things to help me pay attention. And I don't care. I asked for an accommodation. My doctor wrote me a doctor's note saying that I better work. I work better and I'm more productive at home. So I'm able to work remotely. If this were me in my younger years, I'd be too embarrassed to ask for that. So luckily, not luckily, thankfully, I'm able to work remotely. And that really eliminates so many distractions from noises to smells to, I don't know, it doesn't. There's tons of different distractions, but I really struggle with transitions also. And so knowing that, like, if I get distracted for five seconds— if somebody taps me on the back, it's like, 'Hey, can I ask you this question?' But I'm in my hyper focus mode. I'm done. I can't come back to that. It takes me like a half an hour just to readjust and to refocus and get back into the groove of things. And just because I get interrupted for a whole five seconds, people don't understand that. It will throw me off course for like an hour. So it's like knocking a train off the tracks just by interrupting you. That's a really great analogy. That's exactly how it is. And people don't understand that. So whenever I can and have an opportunity to do that, that's not like super awkward and feels like I'm just like pushing it on somebody. I like to explain that. So I try to be an advocate for myself and to just bring awareness to that. But also, I feel like as an outside person, like if you know that somebody that you work with or that you're friends with or that you're in a relationship with, it has any sort of something that they struggle with. That maybe take the time to learn a little bit about it or ask questions about it, or just be a little bit more mindful about how they may be impacted differently than you. Well said. They think of it as, 'Oh, this happened.' I got distracted. It's my ADHD, which you take as them kind of being a little flippant about the situation, whereas you're explaining how it actually can completely derail your workday. On the same note, you know, Dr. Dan, you mentioned earlier how maybe like a young kid can kill it on a video game or whatever because they're ADHD. So what are some things that that ADHD can benefit somebody? Like what's something that they're able to do even more efficiently because they have this? I think something that people with ADHD have is like, we have a lot of flexibility. We have a lot of creativity. And if we have the appropriate support, like we can get a lot of stuff done. And if we're, you know, directed in the, in a way that kind of like aligns with our strengths, like I. I'm really fortunate now that I have a job where I basically just do the kind of stuff that I like all day. Like every hour I'm talking to someone new. So it's like, it doesn't get boring. There's something new going on every time. but i had to find out what i don't like first because uh you know when i had a job which was ironically me giving people adhd tests before i knew that i had adhd uh then it would be time for me i like doing the testing part because like something new is happening every minute but then it was time for me to write the report that was agonizing because i'd have to write this like 60 page thing and uh i just like had so much trouble getting started and i just be like you know puffsing around on my phone until I heard my supervisor's footsteps coming down the hall. And I'd be like, ah, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. And I'd send it to him, and he would send it back to me like five minutes later with like all these corrections, like all these typos that I made, like sentences that just ended without any punctuation, like mid-sentence. And I'm like, 'Why am I like, I'm not dumb. Why am I so bad at this? Like, why can't like, I know how to read. Why am I so bad at proofreading? Turns out probably ADHD. And I just shouldn't be doing this kind of work anymore. So, yeah, I think what I did was like leaning to my strengths of like that come with like being a therapist and like listening to people because I'm interested in that. And I am not interested in writing a 60-page report. I would not be interested in writing a six page, six sentence report. It's agony. It sounds, it sounds like torture. Well, Jess, what are some power-ups that you feel the ADHD gives you? You've told us some struggles and obstacles you've had to overcome with it and ways that you've overcome them. So that's awesome. But what are some things that you feel like it helps you with? Um, I feel like honestly, if I have, have a big idea, I feel like I can figure it out. Like I can figure out anything. Um, and, and not in like a conceited way, you know, that's not like a cool brag. I just. feel like I'm just very creative and innovative. And given the opportunity and the right tools, I feel like I can just, I'm very good at learning. I absorb things like a sponge when I am interested and when I want to do it. You know, sometimes that motivation or determination lasts in very short bursts, but it's like I'm going a thousand miles per hour for full throttle that entire time. But really, given anything, I feel like I could I could learn it and do a good job at it. Um, so much so that it's just like, I feel like a lot of people with ADHD are just like a jack of all trades. Like they just have like all of these different random tidbits of knowledge and how to do stuff and like to the average person. It might seem like, oh, my gosh, this person can do a whole lot of stuff. But to us, we're just like, oh, it's just like a normal every-day type stuff. So, you know, I know that I work best when I have an opportunity to be creative and to be able to innovate. When I can, I embrace that and try to put myself in environments that allow me to feel aligned with my true, authentic self and be able to be creative. um also uh i feel like kind of in alignment with that is um the ability to go into a hyper focus mode when you are really interested in something you know like we were talking about video games It's like getting, it's like getting the star in Mario. It's just like, nothing can stop me. I am invincible. Like I wrote the entire second half of my doctoral dissertation and one nine hour sitting because I was just like, I've got it. I've got the star. And if I stop now, I never know when I'm going to pick this up again. So I'm just going to keep going. And it felt so good to just be done with it. Yes, that's exactly it. And like, that's a good and a bad thing. Because really, when we get stuck in that hyper focus mode, it like sometimes it's like, Oh, well, I forgot to eat or I don't want to eat because I know if I stop to eat, if I quote unquote, sit down to like rest like then it's it it's over it's done like I've lost it so in like those times I'll be like oh well I know I need to eat I'll just like hold a protein bar and still keep working you know like um so it's like good and bad but it is really cool it's definitely it's definitely a power-up for sure when you need that I like the idea of you just holding the protein bar, not actually eating it, but just like knowing that it's there. Yeah, no, she'll get around to it. Yeah. Yeah. When I, when I have a second, but like, especially in those hyper-focused times, like, you know, it doesn't happen really at home because I have more control over, well, when I'm like not working, cause I have more control over. You know, I could put my phone in do not disturb. I can control the distractions. But if I'm working and get a get a distraction and I'm in hyper focus mode or something like that and something interrupts me. Oh, my God. blood boiling. I want to throw my face into a concrete block. I turned into the Hulk. It's not good. The Hulk who famously throws his face into concrete blocks. Yeah. In music, how do you feel like ADHD affects you positively and negatively? Well, both of those two things that I just mentioned, like the creativity part, like thinking outside the box and also like the hyper focus, like when I am working on a project and I'm really interested and like have some new thing, like the dopamine flow is just. awesome and amazing and just uh i just feel like that works to my advantage um with music it is just like such a great outlet to be able to express whatever. So that's just, you know, some really awesome thing that I can fixate on whenever, whenever I need to. And Dr. Dan, I understand you work in, do you like that? I keep on calling you Dr. Dan every single day. I do. Yeah, no, that's okay. I'm going to call you Dr. Dan from now on. Dr. Dan, I understand you're involved in wrestling in some way, pro wrestling. Do you feel like you encounter a lot of... people with ADHD in that? And do you feel like... Oh my God, yes. So much neurodivergence in wrestling. And how do you feel like that affects the performers positively and negatively? Or even you, because I know to an extent you're a part of the performance, right? Right, yeah. No, like when I was doing it like more full-time than I do now, I... uh, I really wish I knew I had ADHD and was on medication for it then, because like, it was so hard for me because, um, you know, trying to construct a match with someone, like we talk about it and the stuff that we want to do. I'm like, yeah, sounds great. And then I get to the ring and the bell rings and I'm like, shit, I don't remember a damn thing. What were we supposed to do? How was this going? I remember grabbing a dude once and like whispering in him. I'm like, what's next? He's like, your finishing move that you told me. And I was like, ah, yes, yes, yes, that one. So, but you know, I'm sure it helps with the creativity and like the hyper-focus, which was like, you know, this was a period of my time where I'm like. Oh this rules now I can watch wrestling all the time because now it's like homework— like now it's productive. Uh, so I'm just like mainlining all the wrestling that I could for years and years and years. When you said that you forgot what you were doing, that really struck home with me because that happens to me all the time. Like I'll be in the middle of talking and I'll just be like, 'Wait, what was I talking about?' Or when I'm feeling really anxious. Also, I have such a difficulty with like memory recall. I'll like just stumble over words and I'll be like, 'Wait, what is the word that I'm looking for?' And I'll just get so fixated on like the word I was trying to find instead of just picking some other new word that it's extremely stressful. So I really like to hear when other people have similar experiences because it makes me feel not as dumb. It's lame, but yeah. And every time I'd be performing there, I would definitely be nervous. And like, all right, dad— don't don't don't forget the stuff this time. Then I get out there, and I was like, 'I was too busy telling myself, don't forget the stuff that I didn't listen to. The stuff and then you forget this stuff— I love that so much. Well, okay. So how has getting into wrestling, how has that served as a positive outlet for you and, or helped with your mental health or, you know, your ADHD? Like, how has that served as a positive thing for you? I think, uh, you know, despite the uh head trauma and probably undiagnosed concussions that I had, it otherwise was good for my mental health because I think it gave me a creative outlet that I did not have. It gave me stimulation that I needed. Had a day job where all day I sit quietly in a chair and listen to people and sit still. Then it's like, 'Oh, okay.' And now I will put on tights and do a backflip onto somebody— and that's really fun. Uh, and it's just like working all these different kinds of creative muscles, because like being a therapist is very creative too, but being a performer, like having uh, engaging in showmanship, is like a a different kind of creativity and storytelling that I found like very satisfying. And I think the variety really helped me out, because before getting into wrestling, I was just like working and partying because I didn't know what to do with myself. So it's like, 'Oh, this, this is going down a bad road.' Like I need some sort of like creative outlet to feel some like fulfillment in my life, like outside of my job. Yeah. Yeah. And I think also like the physical aspect of that, too, is so helpful because it really lets you be the dog at the dog park that just gets to run around and out, you know, get your energy out. And then you feel like you can be like a normal human after that. And I think it gave me a motivation to exercise. Regularly, which is like something I had struggled with before, because like a lot of people with ADHD when we have a lot of like unstructured time or there's not like anything to 'quote unquote' make us do something that is good for us, we will tend to procrastinate, it or be like, 'I'll do it tomorrow' and that goes on forever. Uh, so it's like, okay, if I want to uh, form well and like not get hurt and like not die, I need to be in good shape, which so I was regularly getting exercise, which is also good for my mental health and my focus and attention. Yeah. Did you ever while you were, you know, wrestling all the time and needed to be in like peak good like physical condition for that? Did you do anything nutrition wise that you noticed a difference with your ADHD symptoms as well? Just curious. I'm glad you asked about that. I probably, there's probably a correlation here. Like I started eating way more protein because I was trying to put on so much muscle mass and protein is, you know, research is showing it's supposed to be. Yeah. If you didn't see that, because this is a podcast, right? I was just flexing, showing off the guns, looking great. But something that research is showing is that like protein is really important for ADHD and for retention. So it's important to get a lot of protein in your diet, get a lot of, you know, nutrients, like nutrition is a really big part of managing ADHD. Yeah. And also, while I wanted to bring that up, too, is because I've definitely noticed with myself, if there's my nutrition is pretty good for the most part. But then, like, you know, that time of the month rolls around. I'm just like, oh, man, I just want to eat a whole tray of brownies. And. I'll fucking tell you what, when I eat a shit ton of sugar, my brain feels like absolute dog shit. Like it, it, it feels terrible. And my anxiety even gets worse when I eat like a crap ton of sugar as opposed to like, you know, when I'm just eating protein and veggies and whatever else, you know, like. good for you stuff all the time foods as we like to call that you know yeah and you know when we eat uh less well when we uh eat a lot of sugar that disrupts our sleep and that's like a huge part of like um executive functioning uh even if you don't have adhd like if you don't get enough sleep you might look like someone who has adhd because like you need that sleep for your brain to work Right. And, you know, also, I think to that point, I feel like normal people, in quotes, they don't understand how exhausting it can be. Managing ADHD and how much effort goes into feeling better, especially, you know, I'm not medicated. So like I just raw dog life and do the best I can. But, you know, it's worth the effort to feel better. You know, the more we learn about ourselves, the more we can set ourselves up for success and make ADHD work for us. Dr. Dan, you mentioned sleep is a good part of executive function. And I don't know what that means, but that sounds hard as hell, executive function. I want to start a band called executive function. Jess, you mentioned that time of the month. I assume you mean when rent is due at the first of the month. And yes, I do allow stress eating during that time as well. So I'm glad that you brought that up. But Dr. Dan, you also mentioned that being a therapist is very creative for you as well. And that's not something that I would typically think of as a creative endeavor. So can you tell me more about that? Like what are creative approaches you are able to do in your profession? Yeah, I think anytime I'm seeing a new, any, any client. Especially a new one, they come in, they're like, 'Hey, I'm having trouble with this, or I want to work on this.' And so, first is like trying to figure out, okay, what do I need to know about this person to help them get where they're going? And I also need to figure out, okay, what is the stuff they also want to work on that they're not saying yet? Because, you know, someone will be like, 'Oh, I'm coming in for...' You know, a porn addiction or something like that. Okay, cool. But that's not really what we're talking about. What we're talking about is, like, difficulty with, uh, procrastination, or difficulty with sustaining attention, or just like a lot of shame or trauma, or stuff like that. For me, it's like every uh hour is like a new puzzle that I'm working on. And just trying to figure out, how do I help this person connect with their values? How do I connect with their values? And how do I help them find their own way to move towards those values, to kind of like move towards a life that feels worth living for them? And like everyone's different, like all these different people, like I could have, you know, 10 people come in and say they have anxiety and they might all look totally different and have totally different environments that they're living in or grew up in, totally different presentations, totally different things that are stressing them out. So it's really, like, creatively fulfilling for me to try to figure this all out with them. Cause I can't just say, okay, here's, here's the guide to anxiety. Go do this. Cause it's different for everybody. Everyone's different. That see that I didn't know. Now I am learning. This is an educational program. So Dan, you are, you do take medication for ADHD. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I kind of wanted to share like experiences like that you have, like that medication has helped you versus me where like, I just raw dog life and like, you know, we can compare and contrast. Yeah. It sounds like we've had almost this kind of like inverse experience where you said you were medicated since you were a kid. And then, as an adult, you decided to stop taking the medication. I did not start taking medication until about two years ago when I was 37, 36, or 37. So, like, I went and got my doctor's without ADHD medication. uh it just i think i got really lucky because i got into a program where their kind of philosophy was like all of our exams and projects were like take-home work because they're like well when you're a psychologist you don't just have to know everything you have to know how to look things up and i think if i went to a school that was all like in class exams, I would have been fucked because I don't test well. I am not great at regurgitating information on demand. Something that I can do is I can figure stuff out. I know how to utilize resources to figure things out. But now taking ADHD medication after getting diagnosed, it's just like. I just, I felt like before everything was just a slug. Like I'd be, you know, sitting on the couch, not doing anything and being like, I have to go grocery shopping. I have to clean. I have to get up and go to the gym. And I just like, couldn't, I just like had so much trouble starting stuff. Or so since starting to take medication, I'm just like. It just kind of feels like it took some like weights off of me or some shackles where I'm like, 'Okay, it's time to do this thing now.' And that's what I do every day at this time— or every day, you know, every Sunday or whatever. I go do this and there's such less resistance to getting started. And I feel like my attention is so much better. My phone is still like a black hole for distraction. But when I'm able to put it away, like, 'Wow, I'm like.' i'm really like watching this show and i'm really paying attention that's nice or like wow i'm really listening to my friends and speaking to them uh and the phone did not was never present during therapy but even as a therapist i'm like when i start taking medication like damn i'm like really zoned in here like i'm like really like i'm in it with this person this feels great yeah yeah it's just been really really helpful for me for just like doing the that i care about and want to do instead of like laying on the floor or like refreshing the same three apps on my phone Yeah, that's amazing. That's really great. I'm so glad that you are having such a positive experience with that. In your explanation there, I did hear a little bit about your executive dysfunction. Right. And Ryan was Ryan was asking about what that meant. So can you can you tell us just in case people don't know what that means, what exactly that means? i'm gonna try my best to uh try to find it these are like the like kind of like uh uh mental skills that we need to like do stuff so like uh The ability to like inhibit our initial responses. So it's like not to not act impulsively would be an executive skill. Our working memory, which is the part of memory where we kind of like. hold and manipulate information for a little bit. So, if someone was like, 'Memorize this phone number,' that's working memory, like holding all those numbers in your head or like doing mental math. And a lot of people with ADHD have a lot of struggles with that. Uh, so, like, throughout my life, you know, I would have a boss or someone who would be like, 'Do this, do this, do this.' Okay, got it. And then, like, three minutes later, I'm like, 'I actually, I, I got like two of those 10 points. Could you... I need to write this down or could you please like email me?' Verbal directions are terrible for me. Executive functioning helps us with our emotional control, which could help us not give up on something because we're stressed out about it or not freak out on someone because they said something that upset us or gave us stressful news. Executive functioning includes like sustaining our attention on something— it includes task initiation, which is exactly what sounds like like the ability to like get started and do something. All those things that a lot of people with ADHD struggle with. Thank you. Yeah, I think that was a great explanation there. Are there any tools or tips, tricks that you have implemented in your life to help make your life a little bit easier? Yeah, I'll try to run through a bunch of them as I can, because we could be here all day talking about this. But I think one of the biggest things is like finding whatever you can do to manage distraction. If you know you're distractible. So, you know, I gave my phone as an example. I know that thing is a black hole for me, especially when I'm switching between tasks. It's like I finished one thing and I want to go do something else, but I don't know what yet. So that makes me feel a little uncomfortable and a little bored. You know what makes me feel less bored? Looking at my phone. And I'll tell myself, I'm going to look at this for just two minutes while I think about something else to do. And then a half hour will go by. So it helps to be honest with ourselves. Be like, OK— historically, when I look at my phone for two minutes, what happens? Does it last two minutes or does it last much longer than two minutes? And if we can recognize what really happens, we can plan around that. So if I'm doing something and I want to pay attention, I need to put my phone somewhere where I can't reach it. There will be moments where I lie to myself and I say, 'I can put on the table and I just won't look at it.' But I will look at it. I'll reach over and start touching it. Even if I'm in, say, a training that I'm really interested in, I just have to put it away. If I'm trying to watch a show or read a book, especially if I'm reading a book— especially when you're reading a book. Oh my god, reading so hard. Even though I like reading, it's like I'll be mid-sentence and suddenly I've been on Instagram for 20 minutes. What happened? I don't even remember picking this up. So I like... I will like throw my phone to the other side of the couch. When I get bored for half a second and try to reach for it, I'm like, 'Oh, it's over there.' And that gives me just enough time to be like, 'I don't actually want that.' I was just bored for one nanosecond. Yeah, that's a really, really great thing to do because I think that everybody struggles with. being addicted to their phone and also it's it's been making everything super super difficult to be focused on anything because we're at a stage in time now where everything is given to us in super, super quick, easily digestible little tidbits. And, you know, when we were kids, we could. do a project for three hours and be like, oh, wow, this is great. Not be distracted or anything. And now it's like, oh, my God, I don't know everything there is to know about this certain topic in 30 seconds. And now I'm angry and I should know more. And it's. And it's really, really tough. And it's just made it so much more difficult to stay focused for a longer amount of time. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And so. you know, speaking of the distractions that come from the phone is it could be really helpful maybe to turn off or mute a lot of notifications, like the ones that you really don't need to press in here, like putting your phone on do not disturb or silent. I'm going to say vibrate doesn't count because that makes noise and you feel it. It's distracting. Exactly. Like think about what you really need push notifications for. I was in a session with a client once and she kept looking at her phone every couple of minutes. Like, is, are you okay? Like, are you, you know, something going on? She's like, 'Oh, it was just a push notification from the New York Times.' And I'm like, 'Why, why do you want push notifications of bad news every 20 minutes? Like, what is that doing to you? How does that make you feel? That would annoy the hell out of me.' I hate anything regarding the news because my life's got enough going on. So I can't, I don't have the capacity for more news. Better to carve out like an intentional time to do these things. Like, I will look at the news at this time for this long, rather than like, I'm going to, you know, look at the news or check Instagram whenever I'm bored for a second. It's also been helpful for me to set time limits on apps, because even though you could just like, you know, blow through them when it's like, 'Hey, your time's up,' like, at least it gives me enough time to like, pause and think for a second. It's like, Dan from the past set this up for a reason. Yeah, I'm gonna trust Dan from the past, even though Dan right now is really mad at Dan from the past. Yeah, no— and that's awesome. Because I do stuff like that too. Like sometimes I pretend to not be in a crazy person way, I guess it's kind of like a crazy person way, but I'll treat things like, oh well, just in the future. I want to set this up for, just in the future, you know, like meal prep or, you know, just doing little favors for my future self. Like I'll get things ready the night before because I know that I have I have a problem with time management. So I need, like you said, be honest with myself and do things that are going to set myself up for success. If I don't want to feel like shit or feel like I'm rushing around or whatever, you know, like I'll wash my dish. My dish, something that I've done, I've started implementing is I used to leave dishes in the sink, like not a lot, but still there'd be some in there for the morning after. And I'm just like, I'll just wash them in the morning because, who cares? it has made such a huge difference waking up and going into my kitchen and seeing no dishes in the sink like it's it's amazing and it's just yeah it's like it's it's not it sucks to like start your day in a deficit because of the version of you from the night before it's like oh just from last night really fucked me over once again yeah you know you were saying it feels kind of crazy to like think of yourself as like another person but there's actually a lot of research that shows that we do tend to think of our future selves as a different person like just in the way that we treat them because like well this is you know this is tomorrow's dan's problem not today dan's problem So this is very corny, but I heard a psychologist ask this once, like, what if you treated your future self like a friend that you cared about? And it's like, damn, like, what if I'm nice to my future self? Yes, that is it. That is the secret of life. Yeah. And then, you know, Jess, you and I come downstairs and we look at the sink and we're like, hey, thanks, Jess and Dan from yesterday for doing the dishes. You really took care of us. Yeah, it really makes a huge difference. And I feel like even in like my just my general mental health, I think that that's a good tip for anybody ADHD or not. If you if you want to feel better about shit, you got to like, you know, do stuff that's going to make your future self feel better. You know, you can't just be like. Oh, well, you know, I'm going to wake up at this time. You know, I've got to be somewhere at eight. I'm going to wake up at seven thirty and then I'm going to like get all of my stuff packed and then I'm going to do this and then I'm going to be angry because I'm running late. And it's just like you. aren't able to see how that is going to ruin ruin your morning or your day and just like you know snowball um but i think that speaks to like the the time blindness that so many people with adhd experience too which is like Basically being like, oh, yes, if I leave at this exact time, then I'll get there at this exact time and that'll be great. But that's I'm just like, wait a minute. That's presuming that nothing goes wrong. And has that ever happened where you're like, all right, I am now ready to leave the house at 830 on the dot. It's like. oh, but where are my keys? Or, oh, wait, I need to pee for two minutes. Or, you know, I need to, oh, I forgot something in the fridge. And it's like all these little things add up. So part of that kind of like being honest with ourselves, like reviewing, like where do these things go wrong is being like, okay, now I know my brain will make an estimate and it's always fucking wrong. And I need to adjust for that. It's always wrong. It's always wrong. Something I like to tell my clients is asking yourself, it's like, you know, your, your mind will tell you one thing. Like, yeah, you got this. No problem. It's like, okay. And now check your history. What does your history tell you? Listen to that. It's so true. And you really have to be honest with yourself. But also, kind of related to setting yourself up for success in order to feel better about your day-to-day and managing your ADHD. I feel like something that has definitely helped me as I raw dog life is just therapy in general, because it addressed the underlying issues of why I wasn't doing those things in the first place. For instance, let's just take the example that we've been using about washing the dishes at night for your future self or meal prepping or just doing your future self a nice thing. When you're self-depreciating and don't give a shit or like you don't realize that you're having these thoughts about, well, I don't care or I don't deserve that. If those thoughts are not addressed. Then of course you're not gonna do those things for yourself. Procrastination— even is, it's something that's helped me with my procrastination because nine times out of 10, when you procrastinate something, it's because you're scared of. of whatever it is that you need to do, like paying a bill. Or like you don't know exactly how you're going to do it. And that's uncomfortable. So it's like frustrating. Like it makes me feel like a little kid. I kind of want to cry whenever I'm looking at a problem that I don't know how to solve. So I'm like, 'Fuhg it. I'll look at my phone. Yeah.' And, and, you know, that, that that's easier, but is it because then you're thinking about it instead of just fucking doing the thing that you need to do. So therapy has really, really helped me work through my own shit. So that I'm better able now to lean into those really uncomfortable moments of avoidance instead of neglecting it. And to be, I've learned to just kind of be curious about why I feel like I want to procrastinate. Meet that challenge or resistance and lean into that and just just do it. Just say, OK, you know what? I don't want to do this. I'm having these feelings about it. I don't want to do it, but I need to do it. So let me just get it done. And so my previous self, like 10 years ago, would definitely procrastinate all the time. I wouldn't even look at my mail. I wouldn't pay my bills on time. Like I was such a different person until I started going to therapy and practicing all of these things and putting them into action. Now I don't procrastinate at all. at all, but I just, I do everything now, now, now, now, now. And then I'm just like, oh, well now I have to go to bed. Like I just, there's nothing I can do later. There's no in between. So I have to learn a little bit to like, you know, reel that in a little bit. I definitely still procrastinate, but I have, you know, some strategies that work for me. I love that you mentioned going to therapy and like getting in it kind of like the emotional route. Because, if you're, you know, if someone's telling themselves like, 'I suck, I'm a stupid piece of shit,' it's like, 'Well, why would you want to do that person anything?' It's like, 'Why would you want to do anything nice for them?' Like, why would you think it's a good idea? It's like, you've already decided that you suck. So yeah, I think that's great. And I think we can get this kind of like negative self-talk because if we're going through life with ADHD and we don't know that we have it or we don't have any tools for helping it, like we start thinking we're dumb. Like I'm someone who had, you know, a 3 . 98 GPA and a doctorate program, but I'm sitting here looking at this like typo ridden report I sent out. I'm like, am I, am I dumb? Dude, I feel dumb all the time. Has this been like luck getting me through this? I'm like, I'm pretty sure I'm moderately intelligent. Like what's going wrong here? Yeah. But when we have like these like, you know, scaffolding or supports or structure to do the things that we need to do, like we're not dumb. Like I I got through grad school by sitting next to my friend, Dr. Anna, and being like. What's due next? Like, what do we, what do we got to do next? Because I had no organizational skills or tools. I was just going for like what she's like, all right, next is that 20-page paper. I'm like, 'Shit, wish I started that earlier.' So now it's like, I'm all about the organizational tools. I use my calendar like crazy. From where I'm sitting, I can see the whiteboard in my refrigerator that has like a list of things that I'm working on or trying to work towards. So it's like, I'm looking at it now. It's like, 'All right, I got to get this tree trim before it falls on my neighbor's house.' So I'm going to call a place tomorrow. And while I was waiting for us to get started, I like. booked up a place and like found it i'm like all right and then i'm gonna set a specific time tomorrow morning at nine a . m i'm gonna call this tree place and i'm gonna knock this thing out me saying this to you right now is also something that is helpful is external accountability telling someone that you're gonna do something Makes us much more motivated to do it because we don't want to feel embarrassed about not doing it if they ask us about it. I'm going to text you tomorrow at 930 and say, Dr. Dan, did you call the tree place? Yeah, I'm going to do that. But I'm glad that you brought up using different. organizational tools, because that's something that I do all the time, especially with all of the technology we have for us. I use it to my advantage. My house is filled with Alexa devices, you know, whatever. If the government wants to come and find me, they're going to find a way regardless. You know, I don't know why they'd want to be like, oh, we want to look at your Nintendo toy collection. OK, cool. Like, come on over. But I use I have a whole bunch of smart bulbs. I have all of my like the majority of my lights are smart bulbs hooked up to an Alexa and I have routines set up. So one of them that is really helpful is in the morning. When my alarm starts going off, my Alexa starts playing a podcast and my lights turn on gradually to help wake me up. And get out of bed or whatever. But I use her to add things to my shopping list because it's much easier in the moment. Being like, 'Oh hey, so and so, add this to my shopping list' and then And she's all like, 'Oh, yeah, OK, cool.' And I'm like, 'Great.' I don't have to do anything or write anything down. I ask her to add things to my calendar, set reminders, all sorts of stuff. So I use that to my advantage fully. I also. A technological tool that we have now is chat GPT. And let me tell you, I was telling Ryan a little bit about all the things I use it for the other day. And I don't know, Dr. Dan, do you use chat GPT for anything at all? I've never used it, no. So I'm very excited to hear what you do. Listen, both of you need to get on the chat GPT train because, well, do you know what chat GPT is? I do, I do. And hopefully it doesn't take my job one day, but go on. No, I hope not, but I don't think so. But, you know, I will say it is my fear that there's just going to be like VTuber therapist AIs. And I'm like, well, that's the end of me. Well, it's funny that you say that. I don't think that would ever take your job. But sometimes, if I'm having a hard time mentally, I will chat with Chat GPT. And I will just kind of, like, use it as an active, like, almost like a journal. Like, I'll just, like, I'm not kidding. It's been so helpful and it's really given some really great advice. And like, just, I don't know, just sometimes you have a lot going on in your head and in journaling. Like, I'm, I journal sometimes, but I don't really think it. it scratches the itch. It's almost like sometimes you're talking to a human, which is like weird. And maybe that sounds another, like, another crazy person thing, but. It's been really helpful for that. So I encourage people to use Chad GVC if they are going through through something and just need to just get it out. It's much better than a journal, in my opinion. I think you're. you're speaking to something that's really important is that like you and i have like so like it sounds like we have a lot of differences in how we use these things but like or different tools that we use but basically like whatever works the best for you do it like Some people like a calendar of reminders. Some people just want a to-do list. Some people just want a whiteboard. Some people, you know, everyone's got different strategies. Like it doesn't have to be one particular thing. Like, experiment with different things. See what works for you. Yeah, exactly. But the thing I like to try to tell people is, like, I think sometimes people will be hesitant to use these tools, or they'll have this story in their head like, 'Other people can do it without these things, so I should be able to do without them.' But like, you don't get extra credit. You don't get extra credit for doing it all in your head. Like, you know, your friend doesn't care if you wrote down their birthday. They care if you said 'Happy Birthday.' Exactly. And they care if you forget to say happy birthday. So yes, it's a reminder. It's okay. And that's why you need to go to therapy so that you can address those issues and just, you know, get over it. But anyway, so back to chat GPT, I use it. I use it for everything as a tool for everything. I use it to help me with writing emails. Sometimes, if I'm having a difficult time with being too emotionally charged, I will write out an email. And then, you know, I'll throw it through. I'll put it through the chat GPT wash, as I like to call it, and be like, 'Can you please? Make this not emotionally charged. I need it for a professional blah, blah, blah.' Like, you know, give it, you prompt it as, as you like. And then it spits something back out at me. And if it's not exactly what I want it, I'll be like, 'Can you shorten it? Do this to it?' You can, you can have it edited, but that has saved my ass so many times because. I don't want to have to think over and over and over and over again and waste all my time about how this email sounds like. And it just is super easy. And if it's not perfect, it gives me something to work with, which, you know, with ADHD, we have trouble getting started. This will help with that because anything that you ask it to do, like it's like a template. And you might not want to use it word for word, but it gives you something to work with. So it gives you the Play-Doh and you can sculpt it however you like. And it also sounds like speaking of, like, on that, you know, we're talking about like. emotional response inhibition as an executive functioning um it sounds like this rather than sending out that emotionally charged email immediately like this gives you time to like pause and go through your feelings and think and you're it sounds like you're doing it a very active way of like getting this feedback so like for one person might be like write the email, don't hit send, go back to it the next day and look at it when you're not freaking out. But it sounds like you get to do it in a kind of different way where it's like you are using ChatGPT to go through it and give yourself time, like make edits before sending it out. Jess, it seems like has been bought and sold by the corporate overlord. She's hyping up Alexa. She's hyping up chat GPT. So between Elon and Bezos, she's right in their pocket. And I think it's important. You know, you're talking about future you and past you. It sounds like, you know, we might be talking to a open AI right now. Yeah. So, Dr. Dan, what would your suggestion be for somebody who is looking for additional support, as well as somebody who might think they could have ADHD? Where could either of those people go for some help or assistance? I'll try to be concise here and give a couple of different suggestions. What I think, talking to a therapist is a good idea. I realize that I probably sound biased because I am a therapist and that's how I make my living and I get paid when people come and see me and talk to me about stuff. But I've gone to therapy and I think it's great. So I think it could be helpful for you too. If you suspect you have ADHD and you want to learn more about it, or if you want to see if you could meet the diagnostic criteria for it— like maybe you want accommodations at work or school, or maybe you want to try a medication— there's a couple of different routes you could take. I would say the kind of like least intrusive and expensive one is to just talk to your primary care doctor about it. That seems like a good starting point. I'm going to warn you right now. I think in medical and psychological professionals, there is not enough education about ADHD. I think there's still a lot of stigma around people asking for medication related to it, because a lot of the most popular ones are controlled substances. And I think there's just like a lot of like old myths that have pervaded uh in the medical field. So you might talk to your doctor and they could be like, 'Yeah, let me give you a like a brief screener, ask you some questions, and we could try medication.' Some might be like, 'You don't have it. You're fine. You just have anxiety or depression or something else.' Or they, you know, they'll kind of poopoo you. So if it goes that way, there are a couple of other options. One is to get a formal ADHD evaluation. That it can be very comprehensive. You could learn a lot about your strengths and weaknesses. It could also be very expensive if your insurance doesn't cover it. That's a problem. I would recommend if you're going to get it done, get it done by people who specialize in ADHD evaluations. There might be some psychologists out there who just do kind of like general psychological testing. I'm sure there are ones out there that are great at diagnosing ADHD. There are some that might not as informed or don't have as much expertise in that area. Thank you so much, Dr. Dan. That was all super, super helpful. I hope that that can help out a bunch of people that are listening. Now it's time to switch gears. Let's get to some fun questions. If you had to assemble an Avengers-like team to save the world, but with all professional wrestlers, who would be on your squad and what superpowers would each of you have? So it's like a two-part question. So first of all, who would be on your squad to save the world? That's an insane question because it's an Avengers team. They're wrestlers and they have superpowers. It's no— it's an Avengers-like team. It's an Avengers-like team. So you're just like imagining, you know, okay. Yeah. Yeah. But the fact that they're pro wrestlers isn't enough. They also are. No, they need superpowers. They need superpowers, too, because that's how you appropriately save the world is superpowers. But it seems like if somebody had superpowers, they wouldn't even have to be a pro wrestler. They could just be. Listen. Okay, go ahead. Don't sass me. I apologize. All right. So Dan, like five, five people, five professional wrestlers. Let's start there. Who would be your five? Why don't we do this? This is an easier question. Cause just your question is insane. It was a fun question. What's your wrestling Mount Rushmore? I feel like that's like a common question of wrestling. That's an easy, yeah, that's an easier one. uh okay so for me i'm just gonna go off the top of my head and try not to overthink this uh number one is uh brett the hitman heart uh you know childhood hero loved him because even when he was a good guy playing a good guy he was still like a little surly kind of like world worry like he looked kind of like when like you know uh if you've got a dad who's a good dad who you love but like sometimes you knew he was just like in a bad mood it's like that was bret hart sometimes just and he had this kind of like hint of melancholy to him at all times that i really liked in a protagonist I guess opposite of him would have to be his rival, Shawn Michaels, who possibly ruined his life. But he's kind of like checks all the boxes that Brett doesn't like more charismatic, more show many, you know, more high flying kind of stuff. And I'm going to I'm going to throw in some. two more modern wrestlers uh uh brian danielson daniel brian when he was in wwe who i think is just like one of the best uh technical wrestlers of all time like i just like watching that dude just like grab people's limbs and twist them around it's like watching someone do a puzzle with another human body And I'm a huge fan of Kenny Omega, currently in AEW, who I think he is just so crisp in everything he does. He's got big, like, theater kid energy, but as like, you know, this like super muscular dude, just like in the way that he moves. I think going back to Brian, he was always one of my favorite wrestlers. And when I started wrestling, I was like, 'Yeah, I want to wrestle like Brian Danielson.' That's what I want to do. And instead, I was more like Doink the Clown and La Parca. So I went in a very different direction. But I don't think Doink the Clown and La Parca get on Mount Rushmore. How about you, Ryan? Who's in your room at Rushmore? Doink the Clown and La Parca would be on mine before Kenny Omega or me calling Kenny Omega a muscular person, but... Uh, you know, that's a good question. I always thought the term Mount Rushmore was funny too. Because, like, do people really herald the Mount? I get it that it's just supposed to be like your top four or whatever. But it's funny that it's like, who thinks, who's like, 'Yo, Mount Rushmore is so sick.' You know, the presidents. You know how we all love those four presidents and they're so cool. Yeah, clearly the best ones. That's why they carved them into a mountain. All right. What artist or album have you been listening to lately? I've been listening to Love Lines by Nuevo Testamento. It's like if Madonna sang for like New Order and I fucking love it. Yeah. Love it. Double flex, double biceps. Listening to it obsessively. That and the Homefronts full-length that came out last year were probably like my top two in the last year. Who was your favorite Mario Kart character? Uh, it's Toad. He's the best. And you know that because he screams that he screams, I'm the best. Yeah. So I don't know why everyone doesn't know that it's Toad. It is Toad. Do you think Toad wears a hat or do you think that that's his actual head? Is there a canonical answer to this? I feel like someone has to know, right? Or is this up for debate like many things, Mario? Well, there was an episode of the Super Mario Brothers Super Show where Toad did take off his mushroom hat head and wring it out because he was sweating. I think I've seen that cursed image. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just this little peach. In a way, it would kind of make sense because like peaches, they're queen and she is a human being. So why is she like a queen of people that are mushrooms? But maybe they're not mushrooms. They just have mushroom hats. But I don't like it. And I want that to be his head. Right. You should just keep his mushroom hat head on at all times. Super glue it to your skull, Toad. I think that it's 100% his head. Much like the Koopas can remove their shell, the Toad can remove his mushroom cap. Pause. This could be the new, is the earth flat or round question. Yeah. Nobody knows. No one will. We'll never know. We'll never know. It's a legit concern though. Okay, so also, Dr. Dan, on record, not sure of the Earth's shape. I'm going to call on record and say I believe the Earth is a globe. I believe it is an orb. All right, folks. Well, that just about wraps it up for this episode of The Underwire. Thank you so much to Dr. Dan for taking the time to be on our podcast today and hope everyone was able to get something valuable out of our conversation about ADHD. 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