The Underwire Podcast

Sole to Soul: Sneakers, Spirituality, and Self-Discovery with Chase Maccini

• Episode 12

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From sneaker restoration to spiritual coaching, Chase Maccini’s story is a reminder that healing and transformation don’t always look the way we expect them to.

Joining us is my friend Chase Maccini—a spiritual advisor, sneaker restorer, and one of the most thoughtful people I’ve had the chance to sit down with. Chase now lives in Australia, but we originally met through (yep, you guessed it) the hardcore music scene in Boston years ago. Since then, his journey has taken many turns—through entrepreneurship, deep healing, and powerful self-discovery.

Follow Chase on Instagram:
@xchasemaccini

Subscribe to Chase's YouTube Channel:
xChaseMaccini

WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT:

  • How Chase went from restoring sneakers to coaching spiritual alignment
  • The deeper meaning behind everyday routines
  • Spirituality without the fluff—real talk about intuition, ego, and energy
  • Moving to the other side of the world and trusting the unknown
  • Letting fear guide you without letting it lead you
  • Identity, self-worth, and the ongoing work of reconnecting with yourself
  • A few sneakerhead gems, favorite video games, and some solid music nostalgia

If you’ve been feeling stuck, disconnected, or just ready to rethink the stories you’ve been telling yourself—this conversation is a heart check and a gentle push forward.

A HUGE THANK YOU TO MY MONTHLY "BUY ME A COFFEE" SUPER SUPPORT SQUAD SUBSCRIBERS:

  • Chrissy Duffin
  • Sean Downing

If you love the podcast and want to help keep it going, you can join the squad ($5 - $10 monthly subscription) or make a one-time contribution at buymeacoffee.com/theunderwirepod. Every bit helps me continue creating content and bringing you amazing guests like Chase!

Keywords: sneakers, spirituality, self-discovery, personal growth, energy work, identity, intuition, mindset, transformation, healing, presence, hardco


Support the show

Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of The Underwire, supporting you when life needs a lift. I'm your host Jess and on today's episode we're exploring how one person's neck for restoring old sneakers turned into a thriving business and how that path unfolded into something much bigger, a journey of self-discovery, purpose, and trusting the timing of your life. Joining me is my friend Chase Machini, a fellow hardcore kid and Boston native who now resides in Melbourne, Australia. Chase describes himself as a modern spirit with an ancient soul, and I'd say he brings a one-of-a-kind blend of humor. Humor, depth, and insight to this episode, sharing some perspectives you definitely won't want to miss. Chase is the former founder and CEO of The Sneaker Laundry and also creates YouTube content focused on the craft of sneaker cleaning and restoration. So, if your old pair of Nikes, you know, the ones you probably paid way too much for, need a fresh start, Chase will show you how to bring them back to life yourself. And in this economy, well, that's a skill we could all use to save a couple extra bucks. While most of his videos focus on the technical side of sneaker restoration, in this conversation, Chase opens up about the deeper layers— reflecting on energy, purpose, and synchronicities— that shape our lives. His approach to both life and business is refreshingly honest, grounded, and deeply intentional. We chat about everything from the hardcore scene and building a business from the ground up. to healing fear and spiritual exploration. He shares his philosophy on using fear as a motivator, offers real-life business advice, and even reveals what video game character he'd trade lives with for a day. Spoiler alert, it's not Link, it's not Mario, but trust me, it's probably the best answer anyone could have given. If you've ever felt stuck at a job, wondered if it's too late to pivot, or needed a reminder that your weirdest passions might just hold the key to your purpose, this episode is for you. So without further ado, let's get into it. Thank you again so much for doing this today. Seriously. Not a worry. Thank you for inviting me. All the way from the future. I grew up in Massachusetts, particularly like more Cape Cod area. Spent a lot of time in Boston, but like my heritage and roots are in the Cape Cod area of Massachusetts. We used to book shows there a lot and just like establish that scene. And then, yeah, eventually I... Moved to Australia and now this is where I am. And I established a little bit of a name for myself out here as well. Bleeding sneakers and talking about like spirituality out of nowhere— but yeah, that's for a different part of the podcast. Yeah. I'm really interested in hearing about that for sure. We're saving that for last. We're saving the best for last. So we're going to get into that. But can you tell me what led you from Boston to Australia? I mean, it's not like that's close. So how'd you get there? Oh, no, just young, dumb, and in love. You remember the website Tumblr? I do. Does that still exist? I don't know. I assume the domain is still there. attempted to log into Tumblr. Long story short, I met someone on Tumblr and I was living in North Carolina at the time. Actually, I was living with my friend Bobby, who was also heavy into the North Carolina hardcore scene. But yeah, I met this woman on Tumblr. I don't want to like refer to this girl. I think of a tiny little person when I say that. Yeah, I respect that. I respect that. Yeah, thank you. But I met this woman. She had a full, like, vacation planned in America, and like, I jokingly said, 'Hey, you should just change your entire itinerary and just come hang out with me, and no exaggeration, like, the next message was her doing that, and I was like, 'Oh shit, Okay.' So I guess we're hanging out for two weeks. Hung out and got along really well. And then next thing I know, I'm getting my passport and buying a ticket to Australia to see what life was like over here. Have not looked back since that's no longer in that relationship, but okay, but Australia is sick and you like living there so that's amazing that she was able to bring you there, yeah, oh yeah, 100. That's fantastic. And you're happy with Australia, even though all the scary things live there? Yeah, I don't see them too often. I live in a house right now. We get these, like, no exaggeration, like moths, like the size of my... that kind of goes into like the spiritual side of things. Like they represent like transformation and stuff like that. I'm talking like dinner plate size. They're huge. And don't get me wrong. I've seen like massive spiders out here and stuff like that, but I have yet to see any of the things that should kill me. Okay, well, that's a good start. And you've been there for a while now. I've been there for like 12 years. Yeah, 12 years. That says something. I hope that that streak continues for you and you don't get eaten alive by some gigantic spider. Look, look, I'm... What's funny is that, like the scariest-looking spider out here, they're called a huntsman spider. They're essentially like a daddy long leg. They're harmless, but they are terrifying. It looks like a spider out of Lord of the Rings, essentially. I'm not going to Google it because I don't want nightmares, but I believe you. Yeah, they're the ones that like most. It's just like, it's the size of my fucking house. Just name it. Okay. Your options here are to either name it and keep it as a pet or burn your entire house down. So two options for you. If you see one in the future, you already know there's a plan. Those are your roots. Yeah. Yeah. Big time. Big time. So obviously you and I both know each other from the hardcore scene. I don't remember how. I was always up in Boston. So I feel like I have all of these friendships with people. I'm like, I don't remember how they originated, but hardcore definitely has something to do with it. So I can say that. For you and me, I can't remember what the first instance was, but it was hardcore related. But what I want to know is, for you, how did the hardcore scene influence the journey from where you were years ago to where you are now? Do you think that it held you back or did it propel you forward? Oh man, it's like smack dab right in the middle for me. I still have that real like rebellious mindset of like the hardcore kid, like the young hardcore kid where it's like, if I get like a nine to five, I'm more inclined to tell my boss to go fuck himself. You know, like things like that. I can relate. Yeah. But as a result, like later on in life, it is a very rare occurrence for me that I will take shit from anyone. And I attribute that entirely to the hardcore scene and, like, the people that I grew up around. You know, you grow up going up to, like, Death Before Dishonor shows and, like, on Broken Wings and all these, like, heavier bands and stuff like that. People that are way tougher than you, but as a result of you meeting these people, they teach you how to not deal with nonsense from like the real world and things like that. So I would say that it actually has held me back, but it's also propelled me. Opportunities that I've had that hardcore has made me feel confident to decline has also sent me into areas where I can be more like authentically myself and actually. Put myself into a space as 100% myself. I have nothing against this in the slightest bit, but if I didn't have hardcore, I feel like I'd probably be still working at the same grocery store that I did when I was playing in some of my first bands. And like, I don't think that I'd be as happy. I genuinely don't. So I got to give that to hardcore. But at the same time, like if I need a job, for example, I instantly don't like my boss. And for no other reason other than I was taught not to like my boss. But I mean, that all makes a lot of sense. And I love what you said about how you learned how to stick up for yourself and how to say no because of different values that you learned through being involved with hardcore. Very similarly, I'm sure that the DIY aspect, too, you can pay huge respect to growing up in the hardcore scene as well. And, you know, just challenging people's opinions, challenging what people say to you, I feel like that is also ingrained in us as hardcore kids to just... Question authority and navigate at our own pace in our authenticity and navigate life that way. So I think that that's awesome. I love it. And with that being said, how do you think that your involvement with hardcore and all of those things has evolved into your now adult life? How have those themes and values transpired into your life now? Oh man, I would say that like one of the biggest ones would be that like later on in life, the small. Like a group of people that I consider to be my actual friends and family, I wouldn't change for the world. But hardcore also taught me, like, what values to look out for in a human being to determine, like, where you can actually place them in your life. And yeah, my meter is fine-tuned, like it's just like the moment or you're solid, you know, which is such an important skill to have, yeah, in a big way, and I don't know if I would have been like— I wouldn't even want to go back— but like, I don't think that I could learn that aspect in such an efficient approach that I learned in the Boston area has definitely, you know, helped me keep a solid, like, even like when I meet new people. like I can determine very quickly whether or not, like, this person will be around for x amount of time. Like hardcore is presented me an opportunity to be able to determine which individuals, like I have for like my apocalypse, I guess you could say, like my apocalypse group, is the best way to put it. Yeah, and it's it helps you, then, kind of figure out who you definitely don't want in that group as well. And as you get older, you learn to fine-tune and refine those people. Those groups of people grow and change. But as a person, as you grow older, I feel like you're just better equipped to have that bullshit meter, be more fine-tuned, and be more revved up and better able to pick people around you. For sure. So you were talking about authenticity and hardcore, and I want to know how all of the values that you've had within the hardcore scene and your authenticity, how did that lead you to cleaning sneakers? Did that feel authentic to you? Did that start out as a hobby? Was that something that transpired out of the hardcore scene? Because we know that our hardcore kid people love sneaker culture. So did that help aid to that? Oh, yeah, for sure. You remember the Bridge Nine board? I absolutely remember the Bridge Nine board. That's another website. I don't know if it still exists. So we should find out if Tumblr exists still, if Bridge Nine board exists. Oh, man. Well, I mean, then if you remember the Bridge Nine board, I'm sure you remember like Rock Vegas Records. Those are like some of the people that I used to hang out around— like the rock Vegas boys. And, um, I remember Chris Mission, he used to have like the photo of the dunks as his photo. So like, that was like, kind of like my.

Introduction to it:

the DIY aspect of hardcore is definitely in there too. Because, like, growing up, my mother always liked doing her best and stuff like that. This isn't going to turn into a therapy session by any means, but she would always try her best. However, it also didn't necessarily translate to like always getting like a new pair of shoes. It's like school would come around and stuff like that. So the DIY aspect is like, you know, like one year I might be getting a new pair of shoes, and another year I might have to clean my last year's pair of shoes for the next year of school. And then my friend Brian sang for Caught in a Crowd and he played bass for... Noticing that as well, and I was like, 'Oh my god like you can buy your own sneakers with like adult money, like oh wow, like thank you Brian, like you're showing me a totally new way of life here, but then he actually started getting into sneaker care of just like his own sneaker collection and I started picking up on that and I was like, 'Seems pretty fun so like he and I actually started doing it like a little bit together. Long story short, like my mother passed away, and then I went back to America for a little bit for like the funeral and stuff like that, but as I was always there, the idea that like we were going to start a business it was like we haven't seen each other for years and we both kind of know what we're doing here, so let's just see if we can clean some shoes, and then I came back to Australia. And he went off and started doing like a clothing line, and I was like, 'Well, shit.' Like, I enjoyed cleaning sneakers. Any friends out here weren't like immersed into the hardcore scene in Sydney yet. I live in Melbourne now, but I moved here at first, living in Sydney, and I was bored. So I started watching YouTube videos of people cleaning their shoes. Then I hated the phrase, but like, that ego side of me was like, 'Watching these people clean shoes' and I was like, 'Man, I could do shit better than these guys That, yo, that's so real though. And I respect you for admitting that, because that's a feeling that I'm sure a lot of people deal with, myself included, but don't act on it. So the fact that you did is incredible and inspiring. Yeah. And like, it's, it's all due respect to the trailblazers of that community. I pretty much like kicked the door down of that community. And I was like, 'No, I'm here, whether you like it or not.' And eventually, like I started. Would say I hate even referring to someone being bigger or smaller, but some of the more established names is what I should say. Like in the sneaker cleaning industry, and yeah, like, there's a brand out in Arizona for example called ReShovenator. And from my understanding, back at the time, I never reached out to them and asked them for clarification. But Like, I was their first ambassador with like a discount code and stuff like that. And I was in Australia, and they were in Arizona. And I'm like, all right, you guys went all the way to Australia to get someone to represent your brand. Like, yeah, I knew I could do this shit better than these guys. Not Rejuvenator. I got nothing but love for those guys. But like all like the YouTubers and stuff like that. And then, yeah, I decided to like kind of carve out my own lane because it's going to sound ridiculous. But I've decided to kind of carve out my own lane with, like, the spiritual side of things, because I noticed that there are some very unnecessary, like, racist. And I'm just like, that goes completely and well against my morals. And I'm like, I don't want to associate with any of you. Let me talk to you about how the universe speaks to you while I clean a pair of Adidas. A very interesting combination. Yeah, well, I look at it as, like, the Trojan horse metaphor, where it's like, if you, at one point, like, I ended up taking a bunch of stuff off my Instagram just due to, like, legal things with the... brand that I used to work for, but I started posting like universal laws on my Instagram. And I called it a Trojan horse because it's like, at first you would see, like, a Louis Vuitton sneaker in, you know, like the materialistic side of your mind might be like, 'Ooh, what's this?' And you click on it. And then, the caption of like all the spiritual stuff. And it's like, I captured your attention with the Louis Vuitton logo and now you're going to get educated. And yeah, I don't know how, but somehow it just started working in a very brilliant way too. And what made you kind of branch out like that? What was the spark that initiated the whole, you know, wanting to educate people about that sort of thing as well? Ooh, so it's a... Be like, it's gonna sound so weird, but like they would tell me that they like. Look up to me— this was like a common occurrence. I like. I'm thinking to myself, 'I'm like, man, like we used to beat people up back at home, like, what are you talking about, man, like, how can you look up to me, like, I actually adopted the phrase for a bit, like, I'm not a role model, like, don't don't take it from me, like, you don't want to do it the same way that I did, to get to this point. And I'm like, as I was saying, 'I'm like, oh shit, you know what, wait a minute, I don't need to present it that way, like, I can just take all of these fuck-ups that I've had throughout my entire life, flip. It around to the opposite because obviously, if I did the opposite of what I did initially, it would have led me here in a different way and start teaching people that they're the opposite of what I did. So instead of like going down the path of, 'Oh yeah, if someone gives you a hard time, punch them in the mouth,' now it's a very easy fix to say, 'If someone gives you a hard time, once you get to that part where you usually would tell them to go punch them in the mouth, you just tell them to not do that And once I started noticing that, I could take my experience, speak of the opposite of my experience, and see how it would help people. I decided that I was just going to do a little bit of like mindset coaching and like spiritual advising and stuff like that. And the spiritual advising came in a little bit later, due to like, very strange, like mystical, almost magical experiences where I feel like you might have been having some of these experiences as well, like where it's just like something is happening and it only resonates with you but it makes perfect sense to what it is that you're dealing with at the time. Yes, very strong coincidences. And the more that I have been open to that sort of thing, the more that it has been occurring, which sounds crazy. And I want to get into that. We're going to get into that a little bit. So we're going to put a... put a pin in that. I just want to tell you that I love how you have approached all of that. The people saying that they look up to you and kind of taking what you just said and spinning it in a positive way about like, oh, I can do good and I can help these people. And that's such a great way to go about it. And I think that's, that's, that's amazing. I was having people like come into my shop that it wasn't even like one of those things where it's like, Oh, I wonder if he has autism. Like this, was like people coming into my shop, knowing full well, they're like, like very well and truly on the spectrum in like just telling me that. And I'm just like—man, I can't like this is gonna sound so ignorant, but like I can't tell— like I'm ADHD myself, and like I can't tell— like a full-blown autistic child, like don't look up to me like that's not that's not nice, it's not a nice thing to say. Also, but also, you know, we are all our own worst critic. So you and I are included in that. And who are we to tell anybody else not to look up to us? Because the things and—our experiences in our past, good or bad, they have gotten us to where we are now. And if you are doing something that inspires people, that encourages people to look up to you, you then have a choice to be like, 'Well, I'm going to continue to be a piece of shit.' Or you know what? I'm going to take what that person has to say. And that's going to resonate with me and I want to do good. And that's exactly what you did. And that's so fucking awesome. Oh, well, thank you. Thank you. I give credit or at least try to when it's due. It's very important. It's very important. It is very important. Positive reinforcement gets you such better results. It really does. It really does. And knowing when to walk away, too. There's a balance, you know? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Yes. So walk me through what it felt like, though, making the decision to start your own business. Because that whole process, I mean, that's something that I'm trying to do now, build a business. I don't know what the hell I'm doing. So I can only imagine. Trying to start something from scratch. How did you get to that point? Man, well, it all started on YouTube. When you put your name out there and you put your face out there, attached to whatever it is that you present to the world as yourself. Have you ever read the book, The Alchemist? I have not. Should I read it? I'm going to put it on my list. Okay. Yes, you definitely should read that book. It's a brilliant book. And like one of the most famous lines in the book says, like, when you want something, the universe conspires for you to acquire it. Essentially. I could be butchering that quote immensely, but you get the gist. But yeah, it all started on YouTube. I was working as a dockhand slash forklift driver at a place called Tow Priority out here. It's like a courier company. You know, like UPS or FedEx or something like that. And I would go from Monday to Friday and just stack pallets, wrap pallets, put them on trucks and go like load airplanes and stuff like that. And then, when I would get home, I would just work on my YouTube stuff. And then the weekends were dedicated to YouTube. As the numbers on YouTube started growing, the attention from more like, I always do the air quotes, but like notable names in the community started noticing what I do. And, you know, I was fortunate enough to have the skill and the talent to. to actually do what I did, whether or not I had a business behind it or not, because like I was getting the numbers on YouTube, but I was fortunate enough to meet people through this that had a bit of like business sense. So the idea was like, like I said, we started Sneaker Laundry off with three people at first. I was always like the operation of it. Like anything that you needed done on a pair of shoes, I'm your guy. But if you needed me to price it out for you, good luck. You know, like I'm, I was just pricing my stuff off of what felt right. And like, these guys were coming in here and using like real math. I'm just being like, nah, like this doesn't make sense. Like we got to shift this over here. We should, we should drop the price down on this. And then if we drop the price down on that, we can raise the price up on this. And like, I was like, oh shit, there's like a whole new side of this that I did not know. I thought it was just fix your shoes, give it back to you. You know, you give me a little bit of money. I get to see you smile and fuck off. But yeah, I wasn't— I wasn't expecting it. I actually got offered, you know, they say like lightning doesn't strike twice. Yes. It was not like within the same month I got messaged by someone to go and do this somewhere else at first. And then like, I went there, checked it out and it just didn't. It didn't suit me well. So I declined the job. And I remember being like, man, like shit, this is like a once in a lifetime opportunity. Like someone wants to invest into what I'm doing. And I just felt told to know, okay, I guess I'm going to be like riding forklifts for the rest of my life. Like, I guess it's cool. Like, I'm not upset. And then, like, a week later, one of my— he's actually like a friend of mine. He was a friend of mine before he was my business partner. He was on YouTube and stuff like that as well. And he just. Reached out to me, and he was like, 'Hey, like we're starting up a business and we want you to be a part of it. And I was like, 'Oh, funny— that I just declined another offer, not even a week ago, and it was in the same city. So yeah, I will book a trip back down to Melbourne and come and see you. And yeah, next thing I know, like we're in there together, 2 a. m. the night before opening. What's going on in terms of running a business? Because all three of us sat there, no exaggeration, the night before we opened, and we finally finished setting up the shop. We turned to each other and we all just went, 'So, how do we run this place?' And the doors were opening for the grand opening in like six hours. So like, you're not... That yeah, it was it was pretty amazing but you know like here we are like seven or eight years later and now I have a more business oriented mindset I love that you said that six hours before the store opens, you all look at each other and say, 'How the hell do we run this?' Because I feel like that is so relatable and also relieving to hear because I mean, the business is pretty successful and that's great. So obviously you guys got it figured out. How did you overcome some of those challenges or setbacks in learning how to maintain a successful business? Oh, man. I honestly don't think we've ever really figured that part out. You know, it's the same thing as like booking a show and 50 people show up, you know, it's like, 'Okay, cool.' I'm just breaking even. I can barely pay the bands and I'm not going to stop fucking booking shows just because I had one not work. Out like pack up at the end of the night and start figuring out the lineup for the next one and that translates over to business in the exact same way. Like a bad day does not translate to a bad week unless you allow it. If you allow it to translate to a bad week, then there's an opportunity for it to become a bad month. Then it's just a matter of figuring out, like, when are you going to let go of whatever you perceive as a failure? Take it on as a lesson and then just move forward to the next day. Knowing that all right, a, b, and c didn't work. Maybe I'll try d, e, and f today. And if d, e, and f doesn't work, maybe I'll try a, c, and f. Like, I'll just keep on mixing it around. Until it works, so it's just a matter of like how many times can you get up and dust yourself off and not beat yourself into the ground. So many people turn to me and, for example, like I owned 2% of the business. And a lot of people are like, 'Bro, like, how are you happy with your 2%?' And I'm like, 'Bro, you are.' saying that, from your like, like no offense to these people, but like your spoiled ass fucking perspective, like when you look at the way that me and the majority of my friends grew up, if any one of them turned around and said, 'I just worked myself into two percent of a business we're all going to be cheering for them, because that's a rare thing in the hardcore scene. How many people in the hardcore scene are playing in some of the best bands you've ever heard, but they also have to work a deadbeat nine-to-five job, because the band does not pay their bills? Yeah. And no continued... Doing things like that and like I don't want to use them as an example because you know, one of the best bands to do it, but like Scott Vogel for example, is still touring with Terror and not everyone that's in the hardcore scene can get to that level of like Scott Vogel where you can just tour for the rest of your life and be sweet, like a lot of people are like they go on tour when they come back, they're like, 'Fuuuuucck I have not paid rent for two months, but I have the experience of the tour.' Right. You know? Yeah. I mean, I think that there are, you made a lot of really good points. I think there is a lot to unpack there. But at the end of the day, you're absolutely right. If you're passionate about something, then you're going to fucking do the thing and you're going to figure out how to make it work. And we, people like you and me who come from the hardcore scene, we have that, I believe, a little bit of an advantage there because we do have a different mindset than the air quotes. standard set of normie people. And that's not saying that anybody is better or worse. It's just, it is what it is. And that is something that I am forever grateful for regarding hardcore. For better or for worse, nobody can take that away from me. And I love that. I love that too. I love your mindset with that. If you're passionate about it, you're going to make it work. And I love the analogy that you used about if you book shows, just because one doesn't do well doesn't mean that you're going to be done with it forever. And you know what? Failure is not trying. That is the true definition of failure to me. It's like if you don't try, then you're failing because you didn't even give yourself a chance. Yeah, you didn't even take step one. Exactly. So with that being said, what advice would you give to somebody who might want to start a business but is having those feelings of overwhelm or like, I don't know what the first step would be? What advice could you give to that person? I am going to give... I wish that I took probably longer, shorter, in a shorter amount of time than the time that it took us to realize that we needed this, my old business, but a business advisor. Actually, invest into someone who knows what they're doing. Do the research on the people that are going to. It was a good four or five years before we got someone who actually, like, knew what the fuck it was that they were talking about. And, like, they sat us down with, like, for six months straight, it felt like just, like, business boot camp. We were just getting schooled, like, on all these things that we thought we knew. He would just turn around and just be like, 'You know nothing.' And we're just like... Fuck you are so right, I mean that's life in general though. You the more you know the more you realize, fuck. I don't know shit. So how did you find the person? It was it a recommendation of somebody or did they just stumble along? How did you find that person? That would have been a recommendation. But the majority of the people that we found throughout the journey have, we stumbled into every single one of them, aside from him. That was like a very intentional, like, 'nah,' like we're going to bring you on board. We're going to have you talk to us. We're going to have you, we pretty much paid him to yell at us every week. To be a parent, a glorified parent. Yeah, and it's very necessary. I know that it might sound like a cop out answer. But when you actually, you know, sit down and put yourself into those meetings, you realize that it's not like a runaround answer in the slightest bit, if they know what they're doing, and they've got a reputation for like, popping up other successful businesses around you, that first meeting is going to be worth the investment 10 times over, let alone however many meetings you get with these people. If it costs $500 a month to sit down with a business advisor and they actually know what it is that they bring to the table, that $500 a month is going to, I can almost guarantee you, it is going to turn into your rent being paid, your bills being paid. You're going to triple your investment if you actually listen and take on board what it is that they tell you to do. So what are some of the things you think, if you could just name three, three of the biggest things off the top of your head, that person came in and solved issues you didn't realize you have, what would be the top three things? So how to take one to three items and turn it into like a pack to like sell more product. Cause sometimes it's not always about the sale and sometimes it's about how many units you're actually pushing. Okay. You know, like, cause like you could sell one thing for $10, 000 and cool. You've made your $10, 000 sale, but how often are you going to do that? So that I would say a good point of sale. So like a lot of people use Shopify. And depending on how far you want to take your business, Shopify can really only get you to a certain point. Zero would be, and I've never used it, but from what I've been told. Point of sale, zero, spelled with an X. The bigger that we grew, the more I saw that Shopify was hindering more than it was helping. Because it's like, if you wanted to do something, you have to download an app within Shopify in order to make it work and communicate. Whereas zero is just like, no— it's already all built in. And then the last one would be... You can't be the face of the business. You can't be the manager of the business. And you also can't be the logistics side. You can't do everything. So, if you've got a group of people, like he was always really good at making sure that the person who was in the role was answering the questions in relation to that role. So, it's like if we were in business together, for example, and someone had a question strictly for Jess, he would make sure that that question gets to you and that you're actually involved and that your answer to your words, as opposed to just one person representing five other people. So yeah, he taught teamwork. That's the word that I'm looking for here. He taught teamwork in a very efficient manner. Yeah, in a very efficient manner. Very efficient. So teamwork, point of sale, and what was the other one? The first one. Yeah. Yeah, the first one. Yeah, the first one. Just start. That's the best piece of advice. Just start today. That really is the best piece of advice. So what advice also would you have to somebody who wants to start but is scared? Somebody who might be super scared of the idea of leaving their'cushy job' because they have these 'golden handcuffs' and they're scared of what comes after that. They're scared of letting go of what they think is extremely stable and secure. What type of advice can you give to that person that's super scared of leaving their corporate job? And also,

a two-part question:

how can you use that fear as a tool for motivation instead of something that would keep you stuck? Well, the first answer is probably not going to be liked too well from the listeners. But if you're that scared, just... Don't fucking do it. Just don't do it. You're going to get to a point where you wish you did it is the best way to put that. But another good way of doing it, like that golden handcuffs, that's like another metaphor is like dangling the carrot. You know what I mean? It's just like you constantly give them goals and stuff like that to keep someone locked into a position, essentially. But if you're in a cushy job and it's paying your bills, but you also have this incredible talent that you can present to the world, then, if your job is as cushiony as you think it is, then you should have no problem being able to walk in there and asking them for less. Hours so you can pursue a little bit more of what you want to do and like. I'm a firm believer that any human being on planet Earth can change their routine around to work within a budget. It's like if you're and you don't want to let go of that job, don't let go of the job. There's nothing wrong with keeping the job, but if you're not willing to let go of the job entirely, you have to be willing to let go of other areas of your life so you can make room to actually start creating. And like I said, if you don't, then it's only going to be a matter of time before you wake up one day and you realize that... Time's not going backwards and it's not even going forwards. The only time that we have is right now in this moment. And there's really not much that you're going to accomplish by sitting there all day long wishing. That you went for something that is still right there for you to go for. So I would definitely suggest to scale back on hours. If you have a car or anything like that, like even a bike or a scooter or stuff like that, don't worry so much about a cushiony job and understand that there are avenues out there such as like DoorDash or Uber Eats. Make your money without having to talk to a single person you know. Like, yeah, okay, sorry. You might have to go and talk to people at the restaurant, but like, I'm pretty sure that these apps have, like, and I'm just giving out examples of, like, how you can, you know, counteract, like, any loss of income. It's like, I'm pretty sure that Uber Eats has the option for the drivers now where it's to just leave the food at your door. That's what I would do. Yeah, it's specific orders. So it's like, you can have no social skills whatsoever, still jump on these apps, counteract the money that you could be losing. And while you're... doing these deliveries, like, what a lot of people don't realize with companies like Uber Eats and DoorDash is that when you're not doing these deliveries, all you have is your own time. And I don't know about you, but like I brainstorm in the car and sometimes I'll think of something and then I get from point A to point B, I pull my phone out immediately, put it in my notes, and I'm like, 'Okay, cool.' That's done. And when I get home, I can explore this a little bit further. Don't get me wrong. Like I said, I have ADHD. And I used to fall into that trap of like, 'No, I've got to get from point A to point B.' And that's the task for the day. Any other thought that comes in, it's just going to go somewhere else. But that just doesn't work. And then in terms of the fear, fear is a funny one because like it can do one of two things. It can either stand in front of you or it can propel you from behind. And I feel like everyone's experienced it, but no one likes to talk about it. But like, have you ever had a moment where you had to like be like in someone's basement or like in like a... parents' basement and then like you had to go upstairs and you turn the light off and it feels like something's chasing you up the stairs. All the time. I usually run up the stairs from any basement because I have that feeling very frequently. Yeah, well, that's the metaphor. That's the fear propelling you from behind because how fast do you get up those stairs? That's such a great metaphor. You know what I mean? Yes, yes, I love that. And if you stay on the basement analogy, it's like, okay, well, let's flip that around. If it's fear, you're living in the basement now because it's standing in front of you and you're not going to go upstairs. And then eventually you'll just become Bane from Batman. The light's got to turn off eventually. And that's the end of the story. Yeah. But yeah, having the fear actually push you from behind and using it kind of like jet propulsion. Like I said, you're at the bottom of the basement stairs, you feel like something's behind you, you run up those stairs faster than you ever have in your life. So, same exact aspect, whatever that fear is, just find a way to use it as your fuel. That's a great metaphor. I'm going to steal that. Thank you. Hey, real quick, I just wanted to take a second to thank you for listening. If you're enjoying the show and want to help keep it going, you can now support The Underwire on Buy Me a Coffee. It's similar to Patreon. It's like a little tip jar where you can send a one-time $5 donation or join as a monthly member for a little extra support. No pressure. Just know that every bit helps, and I appreciate you so much. You can check it out at buymeacoffee. com/slash/ theunderwirepod. The link will be in the show notes. Now, back to the episode. So speaking of fear, I want to ask you a little bit about— did you have any fear of recently interviewing Carmelo Anthony? Okay. And for those of you listening who don't know who that is, this is somebody who's played 19 seasons in the NBA, most recently the Lakers, right? That's correct. Is that correct information? I do believe so. Okay. And then he retired in 2023 also. Something like that. I believe. Yes. Something like that. So I want to talk about that. And were you, what, first of all, how did that happen? How did that come about? Well, I've met a lot of people cleaning sneakers. And as a result, random opportunities just fall into my lap. So like the people that were responsible for bringing Carmelo Anthony out, they knew that, like I have, you know, like the voice for a podcast and like I can engage people on camera and stuff like that. So they were like, 'Oh, yo, do you want? I want to interview Carmelo Anthony and I'm just like, not really, but yes. You know what I mean? Like, I'm like, 'Fuuuuuuck, you can't give me like Paul Pierce or something like that.' I was grateful for the opportunity, but yeah, just had the people that were responsible for bringing him out just approached me one day and they offered me a spot to interview him and other, I'm supposed to be interviewing Allen Iverson soon. We share the same birthday. Do you? Yeah. Look at that. It's true. Me and AI share the same birthday. Not bad. Not bad. Did you cross Michael Jordan over in your rookie year as well? I did. Yeah. Yeah. I had a feeling. I had a feeling. I had a feeling. Similar aura, similar aura. Absolutely. Yeah. So was that scary for you going into that? What were you thinking before you went into that interview? I mean, that's a pretty big deal. Yeah, far out. It might be a kind of boring answer, but like the answer is no. And I think it's because... Like I had a, I had a brief moment where I lived in LA for a little bit and I worked on a couple of like movie sets, not like necessarily like full blown feature films and stuff like that. But you know, like you meet people, like you meet like proper celebrities. And I remember I was on set with the girl that I was seeing at the time. She was a makeup artist and I was just kind of there as an assistant. And at one point I went out into the street to go get coffee and Eric Andre was just standing there filming for the Eric Andre show. Like as a result of working on these sets, like I understand that just because they have a name doesn't mean that they're not there to work. On a photo like I just think that you're absolutely fucking hilarious and you know like thank you and he was like, 'Oh okay' and I was like, 'I'm not gonna bug you like I'm going to get coffee have a good day' so like that same mentality kind of comes in with Carmelo Anthony. I also worked the event the night before I did the interview and one thing that I've noticed, whatever you want to call them, is that they really appreciate being treated like a normal human being and not to gas myself up or anything like that. But I was told by multiple people that Carmelo Anthony's interview with me was the best one that he had. Here in Australia, because when you go into that interview, like it's up on my YouTube channel, if you wanted to watch the entire thing, you'll see, like, from the jump, it's not an interview— it's a conversation. Like, I'm not just being like, 'Oh, Carmelo Anthony.' So, so what's it like to win a ring, you know? Like, I remember, like, in the very beginning, I was just like, 'All right, bro.' So I pretty much grew up in Boston. So I think I told them, I technically avoided your career because you played for New York. You know what I mean? So we just started off with banter and having a laugh and stuff like that. And it's amazing that they have all these accomplishments and they've done all these incredible things. But just because it's like a ring, for example, that only a select few can receive does not mean that it's as incredible as someone, you know, graduating university. City or something like that so it's just kind of like taking their accomplishments as grand as they are and scaling them down to like what your average person's version of like a championship ring would be and then meeting them at that level and having the conversation. If you watch the interview, like I try to steer him away from basketball and into his actual like hobby, which is making wine, from what I understand. Okay. But, like I said, from the jump, people that got me in there put the interview in the first place. That, you know, this isn't actually going to be an interview about basketball. It's going to be an interview about like spirituality and routine. But because it's a basketball player, all of his answers will most likely be catered to basketball. And most people watching the interview are going to be none the wiser. So what was something that you learned from him or were inspired by from that interview? To be more mindful, believe it or not. I'm a very mindful person myself, but I went into the interview thinking that we were going to be talking a lot about meditation and the actual act of going within and stuff like that. Up the question, it was something in relation to his routine, like affecting his direct emotional state. And he hit me with the answer, like, he prefers to be mindful in the moment. He's like, you know, like meditation school and stuff like that. And I was like, 'Ah, yeah, fuck you.' Just derailed my whole interview. Bro, like, I think we're supposed to talk about like vibration now I gotta talk about being mindful, but nah, like for real. As a result, like, I had to become mindful in the moment and kind of steer the question into where he was taking it. But yeah, it taught me to even when you're in the moment, that you've been waiting all year to be in, you've got to be mindful about it. Even if it's something as fucking silly as going to like Disney World. Like once you get there, you got to be mindful. You don't want to get on Splash Mountain and lose a hand, you know? Yeah, that would probably be worst case scenario. Yeah. That'd probably be a decent payout, though. Yeah. Couldn't play guitar, though. I mean, who knows? In 2025, there's all sorts of different attachments. And you breathe into a tube. I'll start, I'll learn how to play guitar with my nose or something. It's fine. I would figure it out. With that kind of money, I mean, I'll figure it out. I got Walt Disney money. I'll figure it out. Yeah, yeah. So now, all right, I want to unpin what we were talking about from earlier. Kind of now we're transitioning from mindset and, you know, you mentioned vibration. So now I want to ask you about the spiritual part of your life now. To anybody listening, how would you define spiritual healing or a spiritual collaborator? How would you explain your approach to somebody who doesn't know much about spirituality at all? Um, I'm not a religious person by any stretch of the imagination, but I still believe in like a higher power for sure. So spiritual collaboration is more so keeping like a really tight-knit community in terms of like who I actually discuss these things with, because not everyone can wrap their heads around it, and a lot of people like to steer it directly into the religion side of things. And that's where I feel like it can get quite chaotic at times. So yeah, when I say that I'm like a spiritual collaborator, what I mean is, let's say we ended up hanging out in person one day. The conversation starts steering into like a more spiritual side of things. We are spiritually collaborating the moment that conversation comes up. And those are the interactions that I actually prefer to have later in life. Because, yeah, we can talk about, you know. Like your favorite flavor ice cream and how you drink your coffee and stuff like that, but at the end of the day, like I'm the type of person that wants to know how someone feels after they have their favorite flavor ice cream, how they feel after they finally had their preferred cup of coffee in the morning. I don't want to, I don't care about the ingredients that go into your favorite food. What I want to know is how is this shit making you feel after you've consumed it. So I would say that in terms of the collaboration, it's more so just like a fancy word for like friends. Because like all of my friendships are pretty deep in the spiritual collaboration, and like a lot of my acquaintance connections are more so like, oh yeah, you know how's the weather? It's right in front of us. I don't really want to talk about it. I don't want to talk about the weather either. Honestly, I'd much rather exactly like you talk about things that have a little bit more depth, but not with everybody. Not everybody. I don't want to talk about all that kind of stuff with everybody. It depends. It really depends on the person. It really does. Yeah. So what would be the difference between that, then, and the mindset coaching? How would you approach that? Well, spiritual advising is like when you talk to someone on, like, a spiritual level. It's kind of like searching deep within them, whereas mindset coaching is just more so like a list of techniques that I can present to you to start helping you change your mindset coaching, like I'd be more inclined to—perhaps this is a good way to put it— when I sit down with someone, with mindset coaching, I don't mind when they start like gossiping about their situation, because the more they gossip about their situation, the more I can see like their perspective side of things. Whereas, like, the spiritual advising is more so like someone is completely lost in relation to who it is that they are. You know, like, I take the elements and like the content that they consume, you know, put it all together, culminated through, and like try to figure out like exactly try to pinpoint their personality. That's like not even like here's the thing— it comes to the spiritual side of things. I never want to push anyone into anything. I just want to nudge them into their own realizations. Because, like, at the end of the day, I could say something that makes you think of a particular aspect of your life in a way. That you've never thought about before, but if I'm not the one to take credit for it, that was your realization. I think that's a great, great way of looking at it. Yeah, you have to. You can't. I'm not a fan in the slightest bit of people that like to step up and say things like, 'Oh yeah, well, you would have never figured that out if it wasn't for me.' It's like, 'Yeah, that's cool, bro. Why don't you shut the fuck up But I mean, that too, but it's also really important not to push things onto people because ultimately, everybody, you don't have control over anything but yourself. And when you push any sort of anything onto anybody, they become reluctant to it. But as you were saying, the difference is, is that you're not pushing anything onto people. You're just helping them maybe look at things differently or recognize a pain point in their life that they've never recognized before. Similar to the business advisor coming into your business and being like, hey, guess what? All this shit is wrong that you didn't know. And guess what? You didn't, but your business grew from it. But even in business, you had the choice to listen to that person or not do anything. And the choice that you took was to be active and be like, oh, you know what? That person does have a point. And my mindset is now open to what this person has to say, whereas before, maybe it wasn't. And until people are ready to hear those things, they'll still block it out anyway. So I think that— that's a great approach to just not push things on the people or be like, 'Well, I told you this as well. I told you so.' Everybody hates that. I hate that. I told you so. It's like, no, I can't stand it. We're all just people trying to do the best we can with what we know. And sometimes we're just not ready to grow and we don't want to hear it. And you can't force people to do that. Yep. And you mentioned earlier that sometimes you'll be in tune with these very mystical type moments. And it's actually gotten to a point for me now where it's hard for me to get out of that tuning. But let's say that I'm hanging out with someone who feels lost. As a result of me having a hard time getting out of that tuned vibration, I see a lot of synchronicities and it's not just my own thing. Like you might say something and then I notice, and like, this is where people start. Like you either. Get sucked in, or you fall off at this point. And like, I might notice something as simple as '11 11' on the time when they say something very profound about themselves, and I'll just be like, 'Hey, did you notice that, like, a whole angel number at the exact moment that you said the answer to your own question? Like, yeah, did you notice that? And that's what I mean. Like, they'll either fall off, or they'll just be like, 'Oh, is that what that means?' And I'm just like, 'Look, I might not have figured out exactly what that means. All I'm saying is that it's happened to me so many times that I can't call it a coincidence. Right. So that brings me to this, okay? And I have this quote written down, and I don't want to assume, but do you know who Alex Skolnick is? I don't actually. Okay. So Alex Skolnick is the guitar player in that metal band Testament. Okay. I love Testament. I love Alex Skolnick. It's not the first. It won't be the last time I bring him up on this podcast. One day, maybe he will be listening. You know, why not? But he wrote a memoir. And in his memoir. He quotes, the memoir is called Geek 2 Guitar Hero. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on this quote. It really resonated with me and it made me have a holy shit moment. And I was like, this happens to me too. So here's the quote. He says, I'm going to try to say all the words here, okay? Looking for connections and signs and using them as guidance has not exactly hurt my life, my art, or my career. It's only helped. I don't care if any of this sounds crazy because being a little bit crazy is what... has enabled me to find myself and reshape a life that used to be appallingly depressing into one that now has joy, purpose, fulfillment, and meaning. So with that quote, I want to know what your thoughts are on it. Well, before I do that here, it is now 10 a. m., and you've asked me about that quote. Just so we're clear, there's a synchronicity right there. Okay, look at that. It's on purpose. Yep, and what time would it be over where you are?

6:

10. 610. We're almost at 611. We can get into numerology if you want. But no, it makes perfect sense. When you can get into a state of mind where you can actually hear the world trying to communicate with you, it is... Absolutely. I was just talking to my housemates the other day. We went camping last weekend. I brought up to one of them how sometimes I allow the outside noises to be part of the conversation because they're actually kind of supposed to be part of the conversation. I've had people, for example, that I thought that I would be friends with for the rest of my life. And as a result of... allowing the outside noise to also be a part of the conversation, it has actually given me a lot of insight in relation to how certain people are. So I can start observing them in a different way, and then notice, for example, 'Oh, fucking friends with you'—like, why am I friends with you? What the fuck? Like, we don't share any of the same morals. I've been trying to fit this fucking triangle peg into a square hole for the last like two and a half years. It might sound crazy, because like, I'll think of something, and then you'll sit there, and like, you might think to yourself, 'I wonder if this person like actually has my back' the way that I have their back, and then like, someone in the next campsite over and you're like, 'You.' Just think this and they're just like. Like, you might just hear, like, 'fuck no, mate.' And it's like, that's weird. Like, the moment I thought that, that person screamed 'fuck no.' All right, maybe that was just coincidence. And then you do it a couple of times again, and then sure enough, and then, like, it leads to a situation. I had a moment more recently. Recently, I won't say any names whatsoever, but like, I had the thought and then had like the outer conversation from the world come in. And then within two weeks, I have a complete fallout with someone. And it's the person that I was thinking about at the time where I got the answer from a conversation that wasn't in relation to my direct space. But it's definitely created more heartbreak. On my end, but as a result, it has pushed me into the spaces that I needed to be in sooner—like yeah, sure. The heartbreak sucks 100, but if the heart doesn't break, then there's nothing to fix. I know it sounds bad to say, but like, if there's nothing to fix, then life starts to kind of lose its meaning. And when I say 'if there's nothing to fix,' I don't know necessarily mean like I've got to constantly be running around looking for something to fix. What I mean is like the fix can be anything— like you got to get up and go fix yourself breakfast, you know.

I'll use a Southern phrase:

'I'm fixing to do this.' So, Yeah, I would definitely say that like looking for these signs for me personally has definitely helped me in a big way, but there's definitely some moments of full-blown crash outs as a result. But also, I feel like it's those experiences that don't end well. Like, there was a lot of stuff that was happening that blew up in my life this time last year that just... sucked so bad. And we all have those types of experiences, right? Like a loss of a job, a loss of a relationship that is terrible, a friend falling out, like all of these shitty life experiences. But it's not without those experiences— again, that shape us into... who we are today. And hopefully we learn something from these things. And I really do believe that if we don't learn whatever the universe is trying to get us to learn, these things will continuously keep happening until you finally learn the fucking lesson. And then you're like, 'Okay, now you're ready for X, Y, and Z.' And I don't know— like I feel like talking about it sounds so woo woo and whatever. But the more that I have leaned into this, the more that I feel like it is something that actually exists. Like I feel. I don't know. And it hasn't, like that quote said, it has not hindered or hurt me in any way. It's not like I'm telling people they need to do this too or anything like that, but it has been something that I've noticed and it has helped with my mindset shift. Of like, yeah, well, this shit sucked. Having a falling out with somebody who I thought was one of my best fucking friends. That fucking sucked. It ended shitty. That sucked. But it propelled me. It fueled me. Into where I am now, being super creative, getting very active about all sorts of other stuff, and finally taking initiative and taking action on what I need to do to live my life, which I previously wasn't. We can talk about that forever, I feel like. But I mean, it's just so true. So speaking of woo-woo, well, we already established that there's value in embracing a little bit of this crazy to reshape one's life. But how would you, I guess, encourage the mindset shift for skeptical people to embrace all of this type of stuff? Oh, man, I feel like it's so important to actually be skeptical when it comes to these sort of things. I agree. Like, I actually think being a skeptic has saved my life a handful of times because I feel like, if you jump fully into it, like, have you ever seen the video of a woman, like, the side of a mountain is about to fall and like, she walks up to it and she just goes like this, and people are like, lady, like get away from the mountain.' She's like, 'No, I can stop it.' And like, the mountain just collapses. To her was she ang the avatar no definitely definitely not maybe she's definitely not maybe she thought she was ang and she was just yeah i mean like far out we are all closer to ang than we think but um the skeptic side of me for example like if that was me in that position i would be like yo i'm definitely capable of some mystical stuff but I will not be able to stop that fucking mountain yeah like there's no way like the skeptic you know it doesn't go well it doesn't go that deep it's not like I just am taking these things as like confirmations that I'm more in alignment with with the authentic person that I want to be and I'm not using these things as like man, I guess I can, you know, walk in front of traffic or like, I'm going to buy a lottery ticket. I'm going to fucking win tonight. You know, it's just, but they're just like little confirmations. And I'm like, oh, okay, like I am on the right path. That's cool. Speaking of that, I want to tell you about this really crazy thing that I just thought of that happened to me. It was right after my niece's graduation and my one brother passed away, her dad, like a year before this. And I was really upset about a whole bunch of things. It was probably like, you know, it was cold. It was like February, but it was like a nice day outside. One of those like, oh, it's like 60 degrees in February. But, you know, so I'm going to. Enjoy outside. Driving home from her graduation, I randomly decided I'm going to stop at this park that was on the way that had like a pretty body of water and just a walking path. And I was just really upset about like the dude that I was trying to date and like it didn't work out and just like. My mom had just passed away and my brother's not here. My niece just graduated and, just like a whole bunch of stuff, I'm taking a walk. I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to sit by the water. And I rarely ever just sit. I'm usually just like walking around. Like I can't sit still. And I'm just like, I'm just going to sit here. And I was listening to something. I was listening to some like Taylor Swift song or whatever. And like. As you do. I love Taylor Swift. I have no shame. Okay, and this woman, there's nobody around, okay? There's nobody around. I'm in the middle of nowhere, just sitting, looking at this body of water. And out of nowhere, this fucking older woman comes up to me. I swear, I didn't even see her out of the corner of my eye. She just fucking appeared, which also sounds crazy. She appeared, she comes over to me and like I'm wearing headphones. She interrupted me and I was so annoyed at first. I was like, what the fuck does this person want? Like I'm sitting here, I'm like crying. Like, why are you bothering me? And she's like, can I just, can I just talk to you for a second? And, and I was rude at first. Cause if somebody is interrupting you. You're like, you're like not interrupting. You, but if somebody is like interrupting your peace and quiet, it's just like, why are you coming up to me? I have headphones on, leave me alone. So I was like, kind of like a little, not rude, but just like, what do you want? And she starts asking me these questions. She's like, you know, are you doing, are you doing okay? And in my mind, it switched immediately. I don't know what made it switch. I'm like, is this person trying to help me? It was this person and it was just the weirdest feeling. And so I completely changed my demeanor and I started just like being open. And I was like, oh, you know, my mom just passed away and my niece just graduated and my brother died and this boy and blah, blah, blah. And I just, I don't know why I just word vomited at this lady. She goes, she goes, my name's Marianne. And she spelled it for me. My mom's name is Marianne. Okay. She spelled it the same exact way my mom did. And she goes, and I know this sounds so fucking crazy, but she's like. I, I'm an earth angel. Okay. That sounds fucking ridiculous. I am skeptical. But at this point in time, I felt, I was like, you know what? I'm open to this. I don't care. Like. This person is here to comfort me. Like, that's what I felt like. And she goes, I'm an earth angel. And your mom sent me here to tell you that she's okay and that she loves you. And I need to tell you that you are on the right path. And I'm like, 'What?' And, you know, I don't really remember much about that conversation other than she said those things. And then she mentioned, 'Oh, and that boy, he's not ready for you yet.' So, you know, I'm sorry, but he's just not. It's like, 'Oh, my God, dude.' And then she, like, gave me her number, which I never used because I still was, like, skeptical, right? Like, who was the strange woman? I'm not going to call her or whatever. But, you know, she gave me this long hug and she's like, 'Everything is going to be OK.' And it was legitimately like right after my mom died. It was the craziest fucking shit. And I think that, like, that was the confirmation that I'm like, OK. This stuff is real. Um, I, I know that sounds ridiculous, but this helped me, like, this was not hurtful to me. It brought me comfort and that's that. And yeah, it's almost so real to the point. Whole her spelling your mom's name the exact same way and so it's no coincidence that's exactly how I felt. I was like, there is no fucking way that this strange woman in the middle of nowhere appeared and was like, 'Oh hi, my name is the same as your mom's, like, dude Yeah. So, um, I remember one of the questions was in relation to like, if I'm like religious and this links into what you're talking about too, but I never was able to wrap my head around it with religion. But then I started looking into this thing called the law of one. And it pretty much teaches you how everything on this planet, all the way down to this skateboard deck that's in front of me, my sneakers that sit over here, all the way down to the pillows that I rest my head on at night, everything is connected. And when you can tap into that mystical side of things, once you realize that everything is technically one, despite any duality or like separatism that you see, you are tuning into the one— just the one. And when we lose the people that we love and we lose the people that we care about, they go back into the one. So, like, I think I've lost my mother as well, and I'll have a conversation with my sister every once in a while about it. For example, and not to put you down, Rachel, I love you to death if you're listening, but like some people just aren't ready to tap into it yet. And she's a perfect example of, I'm not trying to force anything onto her, but every once in a while I'll pop up and just be like, 'Hey.' Just a reminder that, like, mom is the coffee that you have in the morning. She's also your phone when you grab your phone in the morning and turn your alarm off. You know what I mean? She's all three of your dogs. She's everywhere. If anything, like when we lost them, we actually came closer to them. And I remember hearing things like this when I was a kid and I was a big man. Shut the fuck up. My friend's dead. You know what I mean? Like I'm not dealing with this shit, but like it is so true. And the only thing that doesn't allow a human to tap into that aspect of just the universe in general is, and this isn't a negative word when I say this, but the ego. Thinking that we are separate from the people that we've lost, but the truth of the matter is— that you know, like, even like, through like, as morbid as it sounds, like something is, uh, cremation, like, when we cremate our loved ones and we spread their ashes. That holds so much spiritual meaning behind it. Like, they actually do disperse in part of their consciousness because, like, there's only one consciousness. I'm not pushing that ideology onto anyone, but that's my personal opinion. There's only one consciousness, and my proof of it would be. Be the example of how many times have you been in a room with people and you have all had the exact same thought, the exact same thought. And that's how most things work. We look at the Wright brothers, for example, like the plane, the airplane. Do you think that these two brothers were the only people in the entire world that had this thought, or were they just the first two people to execute it? You're so right. And also, like along the same lines, how many times have you been in a room with your friends or somebody that you're really close with? I feel like it happens with people that I'm really close with. Like my friend Eric, for example, we'll just be sitting there and, like you said earlier, the tele... I can't say that word. Oh my God. Tele... Telepathy. Telepathy. Telepathy. I want to say it. Wait, say it again. Telepathy. Telepathy. Telepathy. There you go. So, like you said, telepathy. I feel like that happens pretty frequently where we'll both go to say something and it'll be the exact same thing. Like he'll say something and I'll be like, 'Yo, I was just about to open my mouth and tell you the exact same thing or vice versa.' And it happens with people that I'm really close with all the time. And I feel like that is also a confirmation that those people are supposed to be in your life. Like when that happens, I'm like, 'Okay, I'm in alignment. Like, okay, cool. Awesome.' This person is a good person because we've all been there where shitty people are in our lives for way too long, but you hold on to them because you think that they're going to change. You know, I take that even deeper to like all the people in their lives that we like label as shitty and stuff like that. The only reason why they are even remote. Perceived as being that is because we are also capable of that and those traits rest within us and maybe we had our time of being that but it wasn't as long or like as current as them being in that energy but like there's a phrase and I'm not the biggest fan of it but the phrase is like 'everyone is you pushed out' and And it makes a lot of sense when you break it down. I've got testimonies from people that I've done mindset courses for and just like have helped out with like the collaboration side of things. And a lot of these testimonies pretty much say that like I taught them that. The things that they didn't like about other people around them were actually traits within themselves that they were ignoring. And they would only get annoyed when other people would do it, but they wouldn't realize it within themselves. And the moment that they were able to realize it within themselves, they were able to like garnish a level of empathy for the people that they, these personalities that they claimed that they would never be like. And it's like, well, no. That it's just maybe you were like that with, like, as a child and it's been so long you just don't remember and there's nothing wrong with that, but the whole alignment thing— the people that are in your life— is a prime example, like all the way down to your pets, like if you have any pets, like how they treat you in make things like that, if like random strangers smile at you in the street and stuff like that you're in alignment because like that's like I I don't like to use the word too much, but it's the most common word that people use it, but like when a stranger smiles at you in like an anomaly, creepy way, yes, I'm not talking like they're just staring at you from the corner like hey like no not like that yo hey yo yeah, I'm talking like the the marians that showed up in the park stuff like that that's god. That's just the best way to put it. That's like literally, and so are you. And what's the phrase? So it says like, we are not so much human beings as much as we are the universe having a human experience. And, you know, all the way down to the plants, you know, the plants were officially labeled a sentient being and the receptors that are all over a plant are the exact same receptors as what we have on the human eye, which means that they can like perceive color and shapes. And like, they actually know when you're standing next to them and things like that. I did read an article about all of that. And I was like, well, what does this mean for my vegan friends? I don't know. It means that we all control— the planet the way that we're supposed to. I could go into the vegan side of things too, where it's like, hey, the vegans and the meat eaters both have their place on this planet to keep the cycle going. So before we transition now into our fun questions. What advice do you have for anybody that might be open or curious about exploring this type of spiritual side? Far out. I say, let's get a coffee. That would be straight up. I say, let's go sit down. Let's get some food. Let's have a chat because I've got some heavy shit that I can throw into people's spaces to really start having them see. The signs. Yeah. The signs of what's happening around them. So for anybody that might be listening, do you have like a quick tip of advice for somebody to start being a little bit more aware or open if they're curious or any resources, anything like that? Yeah, actually. So in terms of content, there's a podcast called Know Thyself. I would heavily recommend listening to that. There's another podcast that came from the... Monroe Institute it's called expanding on consciousness and it's with a guy named Mark who is 50 responsible for the technology that's called Hemisync which is like hemispherical synchronization where it's like you listen with headphones on it's a meditation plays one tone in your right ear and another tone in your left ear and it synchronizes your left right brain but he has a podcast called Expanding Unconsciousness and I would you know what listen listen to Expanding Unconsciousness before you listen to Know Thyself definitely definitely check that out And if you don't have the capability of listening to any type of content or any podcast for whatever reason, my next piece of advice would be to just say the fucking crazy thing. that you've always wanted to say. And you'll be very surprised at how many people around you can actually relate to what it is that you're saying. They've just been too afraid to say it because no one else has fucking said it. That's great. That really is great advice. And it's very true because I've mentioned stuff like this to people who I consider close people to me and the exact same thing happened. They're like, 'Oh, yeah.' That kind of stuff happens to me too sometimes. And so that's good advice. Well, Chase, before we jump into fun questions, even though I feel like we could be talking about this forever, but we can't, right? We'll have to save it for another episode, I guess. I'm in for it. Before we jump into fun questions, do you want to tell people where they could find you if you choose to? Yeah, so all of my social media is the exact same. It's going to be X as in the letter X because I used to be straight edge. And then it's my name. So X Chase Pacini. And that spelling is M-A-C-C-I-N-I. Don't fuck it up. I like the 'don't fuck it up' part at the end, yeah. But yeah, that's um the same across all social media. Well, thank you so much again for doing this interview today. Of course. Thank you for having me. Of course. We're now going to jump into some fun questions to close out the episode. So there are two questions I ask on every single episode. The first question is, who is one person you are grateful for and why? Ooh, I know he's going to probably hear this. So I'm going to call him by both titles. So people know like his relation to my life, but I'm grateful for my stepfather who I call my father. Yeah. He's the man that. stepped up my father and I'm like, like, I said no therapy session here, but like, my father committed suicide when I was younger, maybe like one year old, and he's the one that stepped up and, you know, actually, you know, here I am at the age of 38, like, having, like, thoughts in my head, and it's just his voice telling me things when I was like a seven-year-old, and I'm just like, 'Fuck,' like, I came to a realization more recently, like, no, like, that's my dad, like, he doesn't have to be biological, so I'd have to get, I'd have to go, as far to say, yeah, Raymond Hover, what a legend. That's incredible. Yeah, he's good people. He's very good people. The second question is, what are you currently listening to? Now, this does not have to be anything that just recently came out. It could be anything, just as long as you are currently listening to it. What is on your playlist that's on repeat these days? My most recently played would be Give Blood, the Give Blood album by Bane. Okay. Absolutely love that. That's a great album. Yeah, it's one of the best, in my opinion. If you could only wear one pair of sneakers for the rest of your life, what ones would you choose and why? Oh, that's an easy one for me. The Air Max 90 Infrared. And I'm already doing that. I pretty much wear them every day of my life. So the reason why I would do that straight up is like it was always the shoe that I wanted and it was always the shoe that I couldn't afford. So, like, the moment that I was able to afford my own sneakers. It was the AMX 90 infrared and like a retro, like once every five years. And I do my best to get my hands on them. All right. Next question. If you could swap lives with any video game character just for a day, who would it be? And what would you do? Yo, who's the, um, oh, why can't I remember his name? This is going to make me look like I'm not a fan. Who's the character in Zelda that you give the Korok seats to? Hestu? Yes, I'd be Hestu. With the maracas? Yeah, fucking up. I would be Hestu all day long. Oh my god, I love that answer so much. And what would you do as Hestu? Exactly what he does. I would just fucking... Shake your maracas all day and give Lake some extra weapon inventory slots. Just run around Hyrule for a little bit until I'm found like two or three times and then just revert back to the fucking forest. That's such a fantastic answer. Yeah, I'd probably go with Hester because I feel like he's like universally loved as well. You know what I mean? He gives you more space in your item bag. How could anybody say that they dislike Hestu? Like, oh, that fucking guy with the maracas. Like, oh, he's too happy for me. I don't know. What other complaint would you have? That sounds like some shit Gannon would say. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Fucking punk. What a turd. All right. So this brings us to our last and final question. What is some of the best advice you think you have ever received? I mean, I'm sure there's plenty of advice. Just what's the first that comes to the top of your head? Yo, it's actually not even a piece of advice. It was a passage in a book that really opened my mind to how vast this universe is and how it works. From my understanding, it's supposed to be like some of the most ancient, like oldest texts that we have ever found on planet Earth. But the phrase is as above, so below. And like I said, it's not advice. But I could kind of give you like my interpretation of it that led to it kind of feeling like advice. The moment that I heard that phrase as above, so below, I was like, 'Oh shit,' that's like the, your body is a temple type thing. It's like, however I treat my body is also the way that the world is going to reflect back to me. However, I treat the environment around me is how I'm going to perceive the world around me. However, I treat the people around me as how I'm going to perceive myself and things like that. And then, in terms of like just like explicit advice, this is more so for people who are struggling. If you have ever had a thought that you want to do something more. Today than what you did yesterday, the advice is to just fucking do it. I don't care if you don't have the resources. I don't care if you don't have the money. Like, there are people in third world countries that play full-fledged soccer games with fucking balls of trash. You will be able to get out and get at least five percent of what you want to get done every single day. So it's very generic, but sometimes you just need to hear it straight and blunt. Just fucking stop fucking around. Get off your ass. Go do something. Even if it's just to go for a walk. So you can have clearer thoughts. So you can approach even tomorrow differently. You know. So, Oh, that's a good one to end on. It's not about being 100% better in one day. It's about being 1% better every single day. That's great advice. It's great advice. Make your bed every morning too. Yeah. I made my bed. Always, always make your bed. Yeah. All right, folks. Well, that just about wraps up another episode of The Underwire. A huge thank you to Chase for joining me today and sharing his incredible journey from restoring sneakers to building a business and exploring the deeper layers of life, energy, and purpose. I hope this conversation gave you some fresh perspectives on how passions, no matter how niche, can lead to bigger things and how trusting the timing of your life can unlock incredible opportunities. Whether it's sneakers, business, or something else entirely, it's all about finding your path and staying open to what's ahead. If you've enjoyed this episode, I'd really appreciate it if you could take a moment to leave a five-star rating because it helps more listeners like you discover this show. Send this episode to a friend who might need a reminder that it's never too late to follow their passion. And if you haven't already, don't forget to subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts. You can also follow The Underwire and send me a DM on Instagram at theunderwirepod. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this episode and any personal stories you'd like to share. And as always, if you've got questions, topics you want me to cover, or you just want to say hi, I would love to hear from you. Sincerely. If you want to support the show, check out the Buy Me A Coffee page in the show notes or on the Instagram link in my bio. Thank you so, so much for tuning in today. I appreciate all of your support. More than you know, more than words can say. I'll catch you on the next episode. But until then, trust your journey, follow your passions, and remember, I'm rooting for you.

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Jess Goldey

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