The PharmaBrands Podcast
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The PharmaBrands Podcast
Frank Fascinato, President & Founder, Treviso Consulting, on Confidence, Context and Adding Value in Today’s Pharma Market.
After more than 20 years with a variety of manufacturers in pharma, Frank Fascinato recently made the leap and started his own consultancy. In this episode Frank shares insights he gained through his various roles — from combating imposter syndrome to adding value for HCPs — and brings us along on his entrepreneurial journey. Frank’s energy, enthusiasm and experience shine through in our conversation and we know this episode will leave you with some new thoughts in your heard and a big smile on your face.
This episode was made possible through the support of Changemakers, find out more at: thechangemakers.com.
The PharmaBrands podcast is hosted by Neil Follett and Produced by Chess Originals.
Hi, I'm Frank Fascinato. I'm the president and founder of Trevizo Consulting.
SPEAKER_01:Frank, thank you for joining us on this very sunny summer afternoon. Or sunny, oh geez, it feels like summer.
SPEAKER_00:This I wish it was summer. You got it.
SPEAKER_01:Not everybody who's listening knows you. So let's start with a bit about you. Let's let's kind of go way back to when you started in pharma and we'll talk through kind of your career highlights and it'll bring us up to today, and we'll look forward and a bunch of other stuff. But let's let's start back at the beginning. Where did you start? How'd you get into this uh into this industry?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, for sure. I so I go back about 20 plus years, and so it's 2004, and I was actually at a a family event, I think it was an Easter weekend or something like that, chatting with a cousin's husband's sister's cousin and talking about what I was doing, which was consumer package goods sales, advertising sales. And in chatting with him, he said, you know what, you'd be great in pharma sales. And I kind of went, Well, I know. I uh not I know, but I wish.
SPEAKER_01:So confident, confident even then.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. But I just wasn't getting the callbacks, you know, because everybody was looking for uh, you know, already two years of sales experience. So I was going to get that um through CPG, and it was going great. Um this conversation was a Sunday afternoon, and he went, you know what, Frank, you've you got something. I think you could do this. Send me your resume. And he had my resume about three hours later in his inbox. And then from there, you know, and this is this is 20 years ago. So from there, it was I got an email the next morning from a district sales manager, and I didn't even know what that was or who they were, but that ended up being my my future boss who said, Let's meet for coffee. And so I met him, I think about the lobby of the holiday in in Guelph.
SPEAKER_01:A glamorous start.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, really. I was like, okay, cool. So we did that, but hit it off. And I remember not just because it was me exploring the opportunity of starting a new job, but just seeing him walk into the room and and listening to him talk about what he did and how he led the team, I was I was in awe. And you know, he's still somebody I look up to in the industry. And from there it was, I'd like you to meet my boss, I'd like you to go spend a day in the in the field with with a sales rep and see, you know, if you like it, which I understood was also he was gonna vet me to make sure uh I could cut it. Totally. And by the end of that week, uh he was emailing me an offer and I was, you know, submitting.
SPEAKER_01:I find it interesting that your first impression with the district manager in the lobby of the Guelph Holiday Inn, there was something about the way that individual carried themselves, talked about that role, um, which I just I think is a very interesting thing because I know you do some coaching now and you probably help people have that same impact on others. Do you remember what it was? How did he carry himself and speak about what he did? Was it just excitement? Was it a degree of confidence? Like what was that initial draw?
SPEAKER_00:I've never thought about that, but the second you started describing it, it it on it honestly locked in for me. It was a calm confidence.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:And I, to your point, I talk about that a lot when I'm coaching people or mentoring them or trying to help people out because there's so much strength and you know, in a really positive way, positive strength that comes from calm confidence. And he exuded this, right? He walked in, he knew exactly what he was doing. He was, you know, he's a charismatic guy, connected really well, but he knew his business. He was talking about his team, like not in uh, you know, a parent-child relationship, but uh, these are my peers. I do this job, they do this job, they're amazing. You'd get along great with them. This is the impact we have on the business. Um, it just everything he was saying lit me up. And I went, oh. And honestly, I didn't know what to expect going into the holiday in. Yeah, but it was such a good feeling coming out that I went, I I have to land this job. Like, there's there's no choice. I'm not going back to what I was doing before. But it was awesome.
SPEAKER_01:It's such a needle to thread, though, right? Like calm, calm confidence. Confidence is often a bit of a dirty word because it it can indicate bridging over to arrogance. For sure. Calm is wonderful, but leaning too far back is is a bit of a challenge. So interesting that your first experience was uh one that you probably wanted to model yourself.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so you're into GSK, and um I I always ask this question because I I find it so fascinating. I've always been on the marketing side of the business, I've never been on the client side of the business, I've never been in sales, and you've got a like a BBA, you don't have a science degree, right?
SPEAKER_00:Correct.
SPEAKER_01:Correct. Uh your first role was in respiratory diabetes. Yep. And so like what's it like to to walk in to a physician's office at the very beginning, where you know, we talk a lot about like the acronym Cheat Cheat in Pharma, and you're talking, it's a you know, it's a science cell. Yeah. Um what was that like? How did you how did you feel in those early days? And how did you get yourself over uh maybe any initial anxiety? Because I I I have to imagine that you might not have exuded a quiet confidence on that first sale.
SPEAKER_00:I guarantee I didn't. For sure. No, and you know what? It's a hundred percent imposter syndrome, which uh which I think it's pretty obvious, but I came in, like you said, into a pretty science-based role. Science science in the sense that all my peers in the the onboarding class were minimum bachelors of science, if not more than that, like depth of understanding, where I was going. I stopped science in grade 10 when they told me to dissect the cow's eyeball. And I was like, what is this? So after grade 10, I didn't think I was gonna have to use science ever again in my life. But I found myself in this role and I went, okay, I've got to figure this out. So I'm not, you know, I'm a smart guy, I can figure things out, but I'd say the robustness, especially of a company like GSK, in, you know, just big pharma in onboarding and the investment they put in the sales reps up front to make sure that they are confident and clear and credible. Um, walking out the door to talk to HCPs, we're the ones that we're the face of the company, right? And so I was a sponge for those first, you know, I think we were off site for two weeks doing our onboarding and doing all the the assessments and all the tests to to to get through the the opening gate. But after that, I I'd still come back to my team that was there with me saying, okay, we're gonna, this is a team sport. We win together, we lose together. And you know, I was I was the young kid in the team, and I, you know, there's a lot of sales reps start out that way where you've got a lot more experience that you if you're smart, you lean on that. Yeah. Um, and they were a hundred percent there to help me out. And you know, they've stayed friends for a long time. This some of them are still out there, right? Yeah, and then the other one is going back to my DSM, who wasn't there forever because he was, you know, he was going places and he, I think he was only there for about a year or so before he changed roles. But he was such a solid coach and a motivator to say, Frank, you got this. Like you don't have to be an expert in everything. We need you solid on this, this, and this. But lean on your peers, put the time in, do your homework, but you you've got this. And I think his boost of confidence into me, and then you know, getting out there and getting a couple easy, not easy wins, some quick wins, yeah, with customers going, okay, wait a second, that worked. Um, built my confidence um intrinsically and extrinsically is that a word?
SPEAKER_01:Extrinsically extrinsically. I had to work hard at that one too. I was sitting here sweating, but uh got me feeling really good, and then you get you know, you just spoke at our um Salesforce effectiveness event quite recently, so thank you for that. It was a great talk. And and it felt uh a little bit like some of the folks who had been in sales for a while were talking almost nostalgically about the amount of support or time or kind of runway that they were given when they started out versus maybe what's happening now? And do you do you do you feel that? I know you've got you know a broad perspective, you've you've moved way up in the ranks, but when you think about folks coming into the industry now, because we've got lots of people who listen who listen to this show, from senior people to people who are earlier in their careers, um, was there a different a different sort of luxury in the amount of time that you had to get trained up when you were starting than you see now? Or has it just gotten more efficient? Like what what is what is that like when you reflect on this sort of then versus now of getting people set up?
SPEAKER_00:So I don't think it's better or worse. I think it's different. And and I totally pick up on your point around the the nostalgia of well, when I started, you know, we used to and and it was different, but we also had a you know teams of hundreds of sales reps out there calling on doctors. So when you brought in a new cohort of um of sales reps, like we were talking about dozens of people in the same in the same bracket, and so you do start in this, it almost felt university-ish, right? Like you had your cohort, your class, and you can still go back and say, Hey, do you remember we started together? I saw somebody at the conference a couple weeks ago, and you know, we we were kind of looking at each other, like, wait a second, how far back do we go? And then we realized that we were back in, we called it NC1, National Classroom One. And he's like, we were in NC one together, and it just it takes you back. Versus today, though, they're you know, it's not the same size Salesforces, the learning's different. It's I mean, it's it's adapted to adult learning principles, there's a lot more interactivity and probably fewer fewer binders.
SPEAKER_01:I imagine there's a lot of binders at the front of the class, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, probably oh yeah, there was a lot of paper back then, but today it's it's a lot more interactive, and the quality of the learning is amazing. At the same time, like I said, because you've got smaller, it's not I wouldn't even call it a cohort. Sometimes you're training one or two people coming into a team. Um, you've got to be efficient, you've got to be able to leverage other types of resources versus have all the cross-functional team and leadership come in to train 20 people at a time. Because that's that makes sense. Fly everybody in, get them there, take them out for a couple dinners, and and you know, really test them out. Um, it just it's it's a different way of doing it. But I think I I would say that the caliber of sales rep that we have walking out the door today, I mean, I would not hire me today. I'll tell you that much. I we hire some amazing talent coming in, then we train them up even better. And, you know, is it perfect? No, but they walk out of that uh very clear on what they they need to do, how they need to do the jobs, and yeah, and I think they're ready to surely only partway through the conversation for the show, not going to comment on whether or not they should have hired you.
SPEAKER_01:But I will or or would hire you now, but I will say, you know, it's it's a natural when you were hiring 100 people, um, you know, you're gonna probably scoop a few people up in that in that net who might not be in the cohort of the 25 people, right? It's it's just it's gonna be more competitive. Yeah. Okay, so imposter syndrome. Um it's a numbers game, right? I think uh most of us at some point, both starting a new role uh um in certain instances in a role that we've been in a lot, um, have that sense of imposter syndrome. You mentioned it a couple of times. So maybe talk to me about when does that, you know, when does that voice uh um you know speak speak to you in the in your head or you know, your chest gets tight because you're feeling, you know, you're feeling that imposter syndrome. And then what do you do to kind of work through that and get on the other side of it?
SPEAKER_00:You know what? I I really think this is a um it's an individual answer, and you know, not to give the classic, it depends, but I'll tell you what I've done. And and if I rewind the clock all the way back to I'll go back to you know, grade one, grade two, grade three, where in Ontario, anyway, you you'd get to June in the school year, and that's when you had to do speeches, right? So it's like, tell us about your dog for two minutes, and as you go up through the grades, you know, it turns into 10 minutes and 20 minutes, and I could not, for the life of me, stand in front of the class and present. I I would go super red in the face, I get all sweaty, I was nervous. I think one time I started crying, and the teacher was like, All right, let's do it at recess. And every year from there, I remember my parents had to, you know, go talk to the teacher at the start of the year and say, just so you know, Francesco's not gonna be able to do this in June, if we can find an arrangement. And the reason why I'm telling you that is I couldn't stand up and talk to strangers, I couldn't speak in front of a group, and then fast forward to 2004, and the only way I was gonna make money and earn a living was go talk to 140 strangers who are more qualified, smarter than you, established, there's an age gap, they're old, they're more mature.
SPEAKER_01:And this this is an incredibly I will pause and say an incredibly curious career choice, given given your uh your speaking in front of strangers uh anxiety. So, yeah, keep keep going.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah. No, not I had no idea why I was doing this, honestly, but I I I skipped a little part in the middle where in high school I started working at this golf course and uh and had a great time. But that was me kind of jumping in the deep end and say, I need to talk to people and I need to be able to sound confident and crack some jokes and build rapport. And as simple and foundational as that is, and I'm by no means am I saying that's what sales is all about, crack a couple jokes, but the ability to say, okay, I've got a stranger in front of me, and I've got to build some type of connection with them to open up a conversation, that helped build my confidence. But still, by the time I was starting the GSK, I was nervous. And and again, I'll throw in this, you know, I'm still intimidated sometimes talking with physicians. They they've gone to med school. I I didn't even dissect a cow's eyeball. So I'm going, how are they even gonna give me the time of day? But I've through my career and through time and you know some maturity and experience too, realized that I bring different elements and different expertise and a different reason for them to engage with me. I'm not they know just as much as I know, we're not gonna talk about the basic science. That's that's it's beyond me. But if we're talking about business, we're talking about insights and we're like digging into the business side of or like a brand strategy, there's value there, and I have a ton of fun, and then they can see that that's what I bring, and I'm less and less intimidated. And I say this, you know, 20 years into my career, but there's still an element of that when I'm you know right in front of a an HCP, but it just takes time, and so for me, it's it's edging away at that inner voice that doesn't ever help, like the self-doubt or the self-talk that's like, what are you doing here? It's it's not helpful. So I just try to squash that out with my own, my confident little Frank, you got this, you can do this, you've done it before. And you know, I I think with time, with every little win, if I turn around and celebrate that, and you know, a lot of that is even now as I'm starting my business. If I can turn around and say, it worked, I did that. It it's somebody saw value in what I was doing. Um, it builds that little bit of confidence. And I think for me, this is like working out. You're not gonna have huge muscles and get jacked overnight. You're gonna grow one millimeter maybe of muscle mass. I don't know. But over time and over, uh, through consistency, you'll build the physique that you're looking for. And so for me, that building is the confidence to to have those types of things. Well, it's interesting you touched on something there.
SPEAKER_01:Another, another um C word, I'm gonna, I'm gonna uh you know, hazard to throw it there, context, right? The the um you know, that that sense that uh you know the physicians that you're calling on understand the context in which that call is happening, and um uh it would be out of context for them to imagine that you have a as deep a grounding in science as they do, because that is out of context, right? I I remember really early in my career, like this this moment that was so instructive for me. Um I started as a project manager like a really long time ago, and it was uh um, you know, I was in digital, uh sort of like in the dot-com boom. I'm aging myself, but anybody who's seen how bald I am in my headshot um knows probably can guess my age. And and um, you know, you know, we were in a project management position in it in an industry that like was being invented while I was working in it, right? Like there just wasn't. And I would go into these meetings with the client um, you know, with this high degree of anxiety, uh um, feeling like I needed to know the answers to any question they asked me, right? I felt like that was the context. I was the project manager, I was responsible for the project, I had to have all the answers. And I'm not a technical guy then, I'm definitely not a technical guy now. Um, you know, I've got lots of opinions about everything, but like I surely don't have all the answers. And then all of a sudden I realized that oh, actually, my job is not to have all the answers, but to be able to go and find the answers. And it like it just clicked because then if they asked me something I didn't know, and I said, I don't know, but I can get that answer and I'll get it to you tomorrow, it didn't feel like a failure. It felt like, man, I'm I'm I can really do my job. And it just it was like I I so remember that moment, and it and it has always stuck with me to try to take a step back and think about the context, not the pressure that I put on myself or that you put on yourself, but that the the context and try to rise to the uh occasion and not to uh you know sort of some opportunity that's not really existing, right? If that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. No, it totally does. And I think it's a fair comment because uh and the only way I kind of balance it out is you there's you and I'm sh and I'm sure you have always had this, there's your still your base level of competence and understanding of the situation. Because if you're saying, great question, let me follow up, you know, fifth time you say that, it's like, well, obviously, right?
SPEAKER_01:Like if if every answer is I don't know, but I can find the answer for you, or if they if they keep asking, you know, where's the budget at and you never know the answer, like probably problematic, right? But it did it just Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Did you prepare these slides? Uh let me follow up. Yeah, no, for sure. And I think that's that's the balance. But I, you know, I I remember a million times walking into executive teams to present this uh strat plan or the budget or the operational plan, and and also being able to look around the room at your team, and it didn't matter, you know, who's getting paid what in the hierarchy, it's I don't have the answer. And if I tried to answer it, I don't think it would be the right I'm just not the right person to do it. But this person on my team, they're gonna give you everything you need, and leaning on others to to help you out, like again, you win as a team, you lose as a team. But if you've got smart people with you, um, yeah, I think that just again, back to the setting the context, it might not be me, but we're gonna get you what you need so that you can walk out of here confident and to invest in us or to approve the strategy or whatever it's gonna be.
SPEAKER_01:But okay, so you mentioned in there starting your business. Um we have like 111 years of being at GSK to get through before we get to you starting your business. Uh yeah, you were there for a bunch, you left for a bit, you were back for a bunch. Um, and uh both sides of the coin uh uh moving up in both like sales leadership, uh business unit head, director of marketing, you know, back and national sales director. Um is there a when people say, you know, Frank, you know, what what what do you do? Is there a side of that equation that feels uh more um sort of a key part of your DNA, like you know, marketing versus sales, or are they so interconnected that you actually can't differentiate? Like as you as you were leaving that corporate experience, sort of what were you leaving as?
SPEAKER_00:So it's funny. So on paper, I was leaving as the national sales director. The three and a bit almost four years before that, it was uh marketing director. Four or five-ish years before that, it was operations. So I've got this funny blend. Let's call it unique. Let's call it unique, but I think it's funny. It's it's it's uh an interesting blend. Let's put it that way. A unique, a unique blend where I've sat in a lot of different chairs, all on the commercial side of the business. And it's funny because what defines me, I forever, forever, I was, you know, I tattooed myself as I'm the sales guy, like that's what I'm good at. I'm sales. And I done marketing at uh Viv and HIV, and that completely opened my eyes to you know what it meant to be in, you know, all hands on deck and just getting stuff done. Um, small team, super agile, super strategic, but amazingly fulfilling work, like really honestly. And it was really, really cool. And that was my first dose of marketing in my oh, wait a second, I like this. And this the depth of strategic thinking and the exposure to leadership, and to be able to put down on paper thoughts that would drive the business forward for the next year, two years, three years, I found fascinating. After that, I I kind of shifted back to the sales and then into operations side, where I went, okay, but this is this is my baby, like this is me getting back into sales. And I thought it's funny because at every point in my career, I'm like, oh, this is what it's about. This is this. Which is a good thing.
SPEAKER_01:Like, that's a good that's a that to enjoy the place that you're at and feel like you can really sort of like you know, metabolize all those learnings and all that kind of stuff is is uh that's a that's a that's a great yeah um place to be able to look back on for sure.
SPEAKER_00:For sure. And and I think part of that is the the the reason why I've enjoyed, especially the last few roles, is it was the you know, the the 20-year track before that, or you know, I'd say at that point, 15 years of experience in those different roles that brought me into the operations role or into marketing to go, hold on, I didn't forget what it meant to be a sales rep. I didn't forget what it meant to be a marketer or a trainer or whatever the role was that I'd really sunk into deeply as I was doing it in my past. And that I really think that helped me every single time I was in a new role to go, okay, I don't know this area. I'm not, I'm not gonna be the pro here. I've got a smart team in front of me and with me that I can lean on, and that's great. And they trust me, I trust them. But I know what I know coming from the experience that I that I that I'd had before. And I always, always put that hat back on. So as I went into marketing, I felt like I was the sales guy doing marketing. If they if that kind of makes sense, because I I I'd even though we're talking strategy, I would always bring it down to how is this gonna show up in a sales rep's hands or coming out of their mouth talking to an HCP? Like, are they gonna buy it? And not buy it in the sense that we're selling them something that doesn't, you know, it doesn't make sense, but is this convincing? Is it relevant? Is it actually impactful to their practice? And I I feel like I always put that filter on things, but the longer I was doing that role, I was like, wait a second, this is this big picture stuff that I really, really love. And so it's okay. I feel like I'm giving you a super long answer on this one, but I I still feel like the sales guy, but the ability to add the strategic thinking and the long-term view, and the okay, let's pause for a second, think, think bigger on this. That's everything I've learned through through marketing. And what that gives me today in starting my business is this really cool balance where I, you know, for the first time in my life, I was building a strat plan for me. And my product was me. So and my value proposition was me. And then I had to deliver it though. So then I turned into you know, Frank the sales guy, and I'm out there doing BD, but I I I really thrive on both so you've you've done a fantastic job of just segueing into um the next the next phase.
SPEAKER_01:So, you know, you you you had this phrase a minute ago where I said, you know, I you know, I know what I know. Um did you know uh on the other side of your GSK time, did you know this was the time for you to hang up a shingle, start a business? Um, you know, there's a there's a lot of folks uh who just, you know, sort of being an entrepreneur, uh they would have an allergic reaction. That's just not me. Uh, there's a lot of folks who uh I think uh sort of romanticize, like, oh, I could start my own thing one day. Um, maybe not really fully know what that's gonna be like. Um, and then there's folks that go out and do it. So so um kind of um, you know, why why now? Why did it feel right for you? And then the the kind of follow-up, just so you know what's coming next, is um how has it gone? What has it been like uh getting rolling on your own?
SPEAKER_00:So the the the thing that not a ton of people know is that I and and honestly, I didn't even remember this for for whatever reason, but until I got going, because somebody said, Well, where's this entrepreneur entrepreneurial thing come from? And when I was in first year of university, me and two friends started a business uh called tech media. So, you know, back to the the dot-com bubble boom and bust. Uh, we were right in the middle of that, and we were business students at Laurier, and uh, you know, I think it was our business 101 teacher who was just super inspirational and motivational, and he'd started businesses and he got all of us really cranked up about if you've got an idea, invest the time, just go for it. Like, just try. Uh, as long as you don't go doing it and use all your OSAP uh to fund your business, try it. You're never gonna know, and you're not gonna regret trying something. And you know, lots of great examples if you look at things like Apple and Amazon. And any young business student gets their eyes just lit up by this. And so we started this business and we we hung on to it for about eight, nine months until uh it went a little sideways. But we built our business plan, we were out there hustling, we were getting you know uh advertisers to actually invest in us. So I had this bug in me, and then fast forward, I don't know, probably about 10 years after that, um, I had a side business where we were doing um kind of like mini construction, I'd say like doing backsplashes and like mini handyman renovations uh and decoration and stuff like that. But again, that that was that. That was me getting out there and hustling and wanting to go a little outside of the box. So I had these two experiences early on, and you know, it probably laid dormant, I'd say, because you know, I I was busy. You work a lot of hours, you've got teams that are that you're responsible for, and there's just a lot going on. So even if it was buried in my mind as uh maybe one day I could do this, it was always on the side. Um, and I'll tell you, I was thinking about it this morning before coming on to the the podcast, but I also remember early in my career where consultants or trainers or anybody external would come into GSK, and I I would just in the same way, maybe I'm just easily impressed, I don't know. But they would come in and I'd go, wow, I wish I could do that. And in their intros, it was always, you know, I've been doing this for 20 years, and uh, and that struck me when I went totally, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You're like, you're like one more one more year, and then I've got the I've got the 20 on my my PowerPoint slide. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. I was I was so happy to be able to say more than 19 plus, I could say 20, like two decades, which makes me feel super old. But I'm like that, but that's what it is. And looking at the the you know, what I've built through my career and and the expertise that I've built, um, and the exposure I've gotten to you know different types of decision making and different projects and different areas of the business, there's value in that. And so the you know, the second I had the opportunity to do something, it was honestly, it was probably like two weeks after GSK where I went, I'm doing this, and tons of support from my family, from friends, uh, you know, all balanced with a bit of you might be a little crazy for doing this, but I believe in you, go for it, and um, you know, right back to that you know, business prof 101 saying you're not gonna know unless you try. And so just go for it. Um, I registered the business, uh incorporated. I built my GoDaddy site. I was up, I was on my laptop until two o'clock in the morning one night.
SPEAKER_01:And you're you're being an entrepreneur. So when people magic as being an entrepreneur, it includes being up at two o'clock in the morning building your own website. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. 100%. And so, but I had a lot of fun with that. And I went, okay, let's let's let's get into this. And then from there was um, you know, developing my my thinking about my niche and then developing what are the tactics that I'm actually gonna be able to do to go from the let me just jump in and build on that because ultimately not everybody is gonna know what your niche is.
SPEAKER_01:So so when you're starting your business, you know, there there has to be some kind of um at least, you know, mental market analysis, if not formal market analysis. And usually, you know, when you're starting out, it's more of a I have a gut sense that the thing that I can offer is a thing that that people would need. And so what what is it that you offer? And what is you know, why is it that you think that that or know that hey, like you know, that's a bit of my superpower, and I and I I think that this is this is gonna I'll be able to make a go of it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I I'm gonna give you a super cheesy uh, but I don't know why. You know, there's some movie quotes that just stick with you. Uh I've seen the movie of the tale.
SPEAKER_01:My apologies for for taking the wind out of here, but but yeah, it's gonna be a good quote. I know, I know.
SPEAKER_00:It's a great movie. It's a great one. And there is there's one line in there that I probably watched this movie when I was 15, and I don't know why this spoke to me so so much, but now you're making me think. But it was the saddest thing in life is wasted talent. And I think when I was in this situation looking at, okay, okay, let's get back on your feet and let's do this. There was this mix of imposter syndrome and doubt, and where am I gonna go, but then also this I've got something, and it would just be a shame uh for me to waste it when I know that I could actually I I know I could help people. And the genesis of Treviso Consulting, and when I say genesis, I mean like the first two weekends of walking my dog, thinking about what the business could be and my the value that I bring was really around career coaching. Because I, you know, I'd spent pretty much every Friday for the last eight, nine, 10 years almost back to back, booked with one-on-ones, with people in the business that that I was just helping out. Sometimes it was people on my team, sometimes it was people that were in other parts of the business or had moved on and they were outside of GSK. But it's this network of people that were earlier in their career than me that I was helping out. And, you know, was I a coach, was I a mentor, was a consulting? Uh it's a bit of everything to be honest. It depended on the situation, the person in front of me. But I love helping people. And if that was helping them get another job, get a promotion, you know, work through a tough problem on a project, I got so much satisfaction out of that. Honestly, like I would get super excited about it. We both got the promotion of ah, we we did it. And I was like, hold on. It wasn't yeah, I there honestly, in some points, I was probably more excited than the person, but I love that. And so at the start of thinking about Trevizo, is okay, I'm gonna be a career coach. I think that's what I can describe as my my superpower. And as the the next couple weekends went by, and before I registered the business name, I went, Well, what else could I do? And I had a couple really good conversations again, going back to that first Easter in 2004.
SPEAKER_01:I believe it was the cousin's husband's sister's cousin, but yeah, cousins, sisters, cousins, blah, blah, blah.
SPEAKER_00:Something like that. And uh, he, if he's out there listening, he knows exactly who he is, and he would probably describe it the same convoluted way. But um it was a chat with him, it was a chat with a few other people that are on the consulting side of the business. And for me to realize that I am that guy that's got 20 years of experience and not just in sales or not just in marketing, but I've sat in different chairs. Um, I was interim BU head uh for about half the year in 2020, which is an amazing experience and got me looking at a complete different uh perspective of the business and you know, interacting even more with the region and with global that gave me a lot of solid, solid insight. And I went, okay, so there is value that I can bring there too. Um, but this there's a lot of just checking in with other people that are already doing this for me to say, Am I crazy? Like, is this is this nuts for me to think that I can add this value.
SPEAKER_01:And there's your there's your market validation, right?
SPEAKER_00:And so again, leaning on their confidence, right? Yeah, 100%. And so that's where it evolved into, and I just thought Treviso consulting sounded pretty good and broad enough to be all-encompassing. And so that's what I've built. It's uh kind of two arms of the business. There's the career coaching side to help people that are coming up in the career, whether it's field staff or somebody, you know, finally make it into the office and you're trying to stand out, or maybe you're a new leader and you've got a team and you just don't know where to go. I really, really love that part of helping people grow and develop so that they can achieve their full potential and be everything that they wish they could be. And then the other side of the business is consulting. And that honestly, at this point, um, I'm focusing more in on the strategy side around marketing and sales and operations because that's my it's it's my sweet spot. That's what I bring in terms of expertise, but really, really love this. And you know, I've I've been very fortunate enough to get some some great clients right off the bat, which I was not expecting, but um, you know, there's been a uh a great response out there, and you know, I'm out there hustling, so I'm I'm uh I'm I'm making connections and um drinking lots of coffee, I'll tell you that much. But uh I really I'm exploring where this can go. And it might look and feel a little different in six months or 12 months. I I think it has to evolve with the market, like you said, but um I'm having a ton of fun doing it. And I know this isn't, you know, this isn't being recorded, but I got a huge smile right now. Like to think about me doing my own thing and really really.
SPEAKER_01:It's it's uh well, I I really for those of us uh for those who don't know, we record these audio and we're in two different provinces, so I can't see you smile, but it's it's the energy and the excitement and the uh the fuel um uh you know comes true in your in your voice. So it's uh it's really exciting to hear. And I and I have to say, uh, the saddest thing in life is wasted talent. But the second saddest thing in life is when we have to come to a close for the show. Frank, I really appreciate your time today. Um it it I I truly I can feel your excitement. Um I'm I'm excited that you were able to share some of your history and where you're going and where you are now. I think people listening can pick up on um uh you know, sort of who the who the right uh person is likely right now to to call Frank and Treviso. And um I'm excited to check in with you as your uh entrepreneurial journey continues. So thank you again.
SPEAKER_00:Very cool. Listen, I I love the opportunity uh jumping on here and chatting with you, Neil. I I can't believe the the time's already flown by, but uh it's a ton of fun. So uh and you do a great job on these things. I know I already this has been a ton of fun. So thanks. You bet.