How Writing and Sharing Your Trauma Can Break the Silence and Set You Free

What if the thing you've been afraid to say out loud is exactly what could heal you?

In this episode of Hey Tabi, licensed trauma therapist Tabitha Westbrook sits down with story work coach Jen Vrooman — certified in Narrative Focused Trauma Care from the Allender Center — to explore one of the most powerful tools in the healing process: writing and sharing your story.

Jen breaks down what story work really is, why bringing a written snapshot of harm to a safe coach or therapist can unlock what you didn't even know was there, and why the stories we've minimized the most are often the ones that need the most attention.

Then Tabitha puts herself in the client's seat. She reads one of her own never-before-shared stories of harm and lets Jen engage it live — so you can hear exactly what story work sounds and feels like in real time.

If you've ever carried a story alone, wondered whether your experience was "bad enough" to matter, or wanted a glimpse inside a real story work session, this episode is for you.

⚠️ Content note: This episode includes a personal story of harm involving coercion and alcohol with a minor. Please take care of yourself as you listen.

Connect with Jen Vrooman: Jenvroomanstorywork@gmail.com  & https://wholeheartedstorywork.my.canva.site/

At The Journey and The Process we strive to help you heal. Our therapists are trauma specialists who use evidence-based tools like EMDR, Brainspotting, Somatic Experiencing, and Internal Family Systems to help you heal - mind, soul, and body. Reach out today to start your healing journey. https://thejourneyandtheprocess.com/

 This book is for every Christian woman who has been harmed sexually, whether that happened in childhood, adulthood, or even within your coercive controlling marriage, and you're longing to feel safe in your body again. We talk about the hard stuff, shame, desire, faith, and even questions like, is this sin or is this trauma?

You don't have to untangle it alone. Body & Soul, Healed & Whole is for you. Get a copy here today - https://a.co/d/8Jo3Z4V

👍 If this episode resonated with you, please like, subscribe, and share to help others who need this information!

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🚨 Disclaimer: This podcast is not therapy and is intended for educational purposes only. If you're in crisis or need therapy, please reach out to a licensed mental health professional.

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Transcript

Tabitha Westbrook: [00:00:00] Welcome to Hey Tabi, the podcast where we talk about the hard things out loud with our actual lips. We'll cover all kinds of topics across the mental health spectrum, including how it intersects with the Christian faith. Nothing is off limits here, and we are not. Take two verses and call me in the morning.

I'm Tabitha Westbrook and I'm a licensed trauma therapist, but I'm not your trauma therapist. I'm an expert in domestic abuse and coercive control and how complex trauma impacts our health and wellbeing. Our focus here is knowledge and healing. Trauma doesn't have to eat your lunch forever. There is hope.

Now let's get going.

Welcome to this week's episode of Hey Tabi, and I have somebody super amazing here with me today. This is my friend. Her name is Jen Vrooman. She is a story work coach. She is certified in narrative focused trauma care from the Allender Center. She lives in Lorraine, Ohio with her husband and four kids.

And here's a fun fact. Jen and I are from the [00:01:00] same area, generally speaking. So we are from about down the street from each other, which is like not the actual literal street, but a slightly longer street. I am from a city, just a couple over from Lorraine. So I am super familiar with where she is from.

I've gotten to see her in her native land recently, which is amazing. And she loves quality time with her friends, sunshine and Diet Coke, and I am absolutely thrilled to be able to spend time with you. We were dreaming and scheming about this when we got to see each other and I am excited that we finally get to do it.

So Jen, 

Jen Vrooman: I'm thrilled. Welcome. I can't wait. Thank you. 

Tabitha Westbrook: So tell me about story work. We've talked about it a little bit on this podcast before, but I think helping our listeners understand what is it you do as a story work coach and what is story work about is really helpful. 

Jen Vrooman: Yeah, I think, wow we could [00:02:00] use a ton of time to talk about what story work is, but the longer version of the name of Story work is Narrative Focused Trauma Care, and that was coined by Dan Allender and Friends, uh, the Allender Center out of Seattle, Washington.

And it is essentially a method of engaging your stories of trauma and abuse through embodied narrative process. So you could break it down, embodied meaning mind, body, soul, right? All of us are here present narrative meaning story, and it is particularly the client or anybody, that is going through the process of story work, bringing a written story to a session, and it is a story of harm.

A lot of the times people are like, well, why a story of harm? And Dan Allen and his associates are famous for really saying that the harm is what [00:03:00] has cut the terrain of our character. It has formed our identity. Our joy has done that too. But harm has changed us in a particular way, sometimes in ways that we don't even quite know.

And so when we bring that written story, a snapshot of a moment in our lives, the story work coach or a therapist who is trained in the story work method, like you Tabi, we engage that story alongside the reader. And really we're with. Its presence and its curiosity and its compassion, and it's, exploring the story for coping strategies or styles of relating or really like areas where shame has settled deep.

And we get to unpack that together and together is, is a huge word because it's not just the coach that's doing that, or the [00:04:00] therapist or the practitioner or the whoever that's trained in story work. It is, it's work together unpacking and exploring and engaging and seeing what's there. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah, absolutely. And it, it is such a profound part of healing, I think.

Jen Vrooman: Yes. 

Tabitha Westbrook: You know, I don't think it takes the place for me in, in my practice of EMDR or brain spotting or somatic experiencing or IFS or any of the trauma therapies. But it is a beautiful add-on for sure. And you know, I often think about holding stories alone and how the harm already isolated you, but when you get to hold your story with someone else and engage it in ways that maybe you can't see, then it's very profoundly healing.

Jen Vrooman: Yeah, it sure is. And you know, Tabi, to your point about it doesn't replace therapy, it doesn't replace those other modalities I have come into trauma [00:05:00] work through, I think most of us are, but being a survivor myself and being desperate for healing for, for people, um, really not even just for like the framework, but for the people that have the capacity to hold the weight of the stories of my life.

And I also, I went through EMDR and believe so strongly in therapy and also getting to experience story work, not as a therapist and not doing it in the realm of therapy. You do see how supportive it is to so much work that you could be doing in your life and who does not need more support. 

I do.

Tabitha Westbrook: Absolutely. Gosh, we all do. Especially in the dumpster fire. That is life sometimes these days. 

Jen Vrooman: Seriously. 

Tabitha Westbrook: You know? 

Jen Vrooman: Yes. 

Tabitha Westbrook: And it's such, to me, it's a very compassionate way [00:06:00] of entering into people's stories of harm. And you know it, there's something about writing out your story, and Adam Young and I talked about this on the podcast of the actual act of writing out your story is the first step in it because you have to pick a story and you pick one story.

It is a snapshot in time. So when you're doing story work, by no means are you going through every single solitary story of harm in a session that would actually be terrifying and a horrible idea. 

Jen Vrooman: Absolutely. 

Tabitha Westbrook: But you're taking one, and I've told this story before, I told it when I interviewed Adam, but the first story I brought to my very first NFTC, group was literally what I thought was a lightweight story and it was not. 

Jen Vrooman: Yeah, 

Tabitha Westbrook: no. And you know, 'cause you were in that group with me, we were in N FTC one together and it was like, oh gosh, I didn't know all this was in this story. Yeah. And it was so healing. 

Jen Vrooman: Right? But isn't that [00:07:00] part of the process is watching people's faces and watching their reaction to your story, especially a story that you have minimized, or a story that you're not even really aware.

You might be like, oh, there's nothing here. It's not that big of a deal. And I remember our facilitator responding to my story and she put her hand on her chest and she said, this story is terrifying. And I thought, whoa. I mean, I don't know that I'd use the word terrifying, but then everything in my body had this settling of Yeah.

But everything about this story points to it being terrifying and there is something really beautiful about not really being able to see it and then being able to see it when someone mirrors it back to you. That's a huge part of this process. Yeah, 

Tabitha Westbrook: absolutely. [00:08:00] And it's powerful. Individually and in a group.

I've, we've done both and it's like, oh my goodness. You know, to have a group of people turn their face toward you in this space that maybe you've even been a little too afraid to talk about or you've minimized in your life because it's just your normal to have someone go, oh my gosh, this is intense.

You know? I remember having the goodness of me in my story highlighted. You guys en engaged me with that, and I remember thinking. What is happening? What do you mean, goodness? What? And it was freeing and confusing and beautiful, and ultimately very healing to walk through that story and it was like, oh, there's so much more here than this.

Simple things. I thought were there 

Jen Vrooman: so much more here than what I thought was here. That's so much a part of it too. 

Tabitha Westbrook: [00:09:00] Yeah. And I know when we talk about story work, right? You and I have given some details and some experiences, but there is nothing like actually witnessing someone do that. So Jen and I have decided that I will be bold enough today.

Yeah, yeah. To actually have her engage one of my stories. So this is a story that is a true story of harm in my life. It is definitely one of my very real stories. It's not one that I have told publicly before. It's not the worst story of harm, so I want everyone to know that. But there are some parts of it that may be activating for folks listening.

So I just wanna set it up that way because we are going to do a very real story engagement here in the podcast so that our listeners get the opportunity to get a taste of what this is like. And so it's very possible. I'll cry on my own podcast today, so that's a very big possibility. But if you're listening and you notice activation.

Feel free to step away and [00:10:00] come back if you need to. That's always what we talk about here, is take care of you. You're the only you that you have. And so with that, I am gonna turn it over and let Jen lead 

Jen Vrooman: Tabi. Thank you. First, I think it's just so important that we center ourselves and ground our body.

Our, I love that you talked about being kind to ourselves, to you and just noticing your feet on the floor, your body in the chair, and even sometimes I carry tension in my shoulders to let that drop down,

to pause and even breathe, to be present to this, to this holy moment, to your story that matters so deeply. And Tabi, whenever you are ready. You're welcome to read your story and I'll be right here with you in it.[00:11:00] 

Tabitha Westbrook: And to the listener, it will feel like I'm picking up in the middle of something because that's how stories are. So I just wanna preface this a little bit. I'll never understand why my strict religious parents thought it completely fine for me to spend the entire weekend at my boyfriend's house when I was 13.

Sure, his parents were home, but who lets their daughter do that? Nonetheless, after school, most Fridays, I was dropped off at his house in the country with my best friend who was his brother's girlfriend. Friday nights were chill. We took care of the family's dogs and did yard work until dusk, until dusk began painting the Carolina blue sky with pinks, purples and oranges. While adults were still awake we explored the woods by moonlight, hiking and talking. I don't think I ever worried about anything in the woods. They were safe. His parents were building a new building on their property with an apartment above it. In order to stay over, we had to help with the build. [00:12:00] I learned how to hang drywall, tape it, mud it, and sand it.

That garage is where we would sleep. Air mattresses, shop lights, and a boombox with tapes of our favorite bands. This boyfriend was my first kiss. We were at a church potluck behind a brick wall. I remember my heart racing as he hugged me, then closed his eyes, moving his face toward mine. I closed my eyes too because I was sure that was what one was supposed to do, and he kissed me.

I learned quickly what a French kiss was, and it scared the daylights out of me. Why on earth would anyone do that? I thought. I went home after the potluck thinking, wow, I've been kissed. Crap. Did I make God mad? That's sex related stuff. And we are at a church event and I'm probably in trouble. I couldn't talk to my parents about any of it, so I just kept it all to myself.

Sure I was a horrible sinner. One weekend after his parents were in bed, he quietly pulled a glass mason jar from the freezer. [00:13:00] He poured a tiny bit into a metal pie dish and lit it with a lighter that he had pulled from his pocket. You couldn't see the flame, but he put paper over it and my friend and I watched wide-eyed.

As the paper went up in flames, my boyfriend carefully poured whatever this stuff was in a small cup, added a little water to the jar so his dad wouldn't know, and we slipped outside to our garage hideaway. Once we were clear of the house, I asked, Hey, what's that stuff? My boyfriend looked over an impish grin on his face, Everclear, it's an alcohol.

We're gonna take a shot. My blood went as cold as a liquid. I'd never had alcohol. It scared me. I knew that it was sinful and I absolutely should not do it. I also absolutely knew I'd do whatever what I was asked to do. My boyfriend popped in an Iron Maiden tape and pushed play while his brother carefully divided the Everclear into four solo cups.

As the Trooper Frenetically played, [00:14:00] I held mine terrified. My boyfriend said It's a hundred proof. I had zero idea what that meant. Okay, on the count of three, we're all going to drink it. One shot down the hatch, my eyes met my friends. She looked anxious, but I watched her steel herself and put on a defiant face.

She was much more brave. 1, 2, 3, my boyfriend said, and the four of us drank. It felt like straight fire down my neck. I asked, who drinks this crap? And my boyfriend and his brother laughed. I don't know how long it was after taking the shot, but I began to feel funny and the world was spinning. I grabbed my boyfriend's arm and he laughed.

Feeling good. Yeah. I managed a weak smile and said, yeah, though it did not feel good, he pulled me close and kissed me. By now, I had learned this kissing thing and how to kiss back. Then he grabbed my hand and push it up against his crotch. [00:15:00] I froze. I knew we weren't supposed to be doing this, but I also really liked this guy and I didn't want him to break up with me.

Jen Vrooman: Thanks for sharing that. Tabi, I'm aware that this is your podcast. This is your story. How does it feel to have read those words? 

Tabitha Westbrook: Oh, it feels kind of big, like. I've shared a secret I shouldn't be sharing. 

Jen Vrooman: Hmm. Say more. You've shared a secret you shouldn't be sharing 

Tabitha Westbrook: because it feels like even now, like if I get close to that part of myself that she did something wrong because she knew better.

You know, my therapist's brain can kick in [00:16:00] and tell me all the right words, but the part of me that lived it still feels like she did something wrong. 

Jen Vrooman: Yeah. As you even described that, I could feel myself, you know, you were saying my therapist brain, and I could feel myself rising up even into my own head, you know, and then to come back down into my body, into the story, it still feels like a secret that you shouldn't be sharing.

Like you shoulda known better. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah. And. I know the constellation of that girl. You know, there was a lot of abuse and neglect at home and this was someone who said that they cared for me and all of that. So there were a lot of dynamics pushing a yes. That wasn't really a yes. Like it was a scent to drink, but not consent.

Jen Vrooman: It's a distinction and I love that you were talking about a [00:17:00] constellation a a system that surrounded this sweet 13-year-old. You asked several questions throughout the story. I could hear the strong inner sense of strength in you. Even that very first question that you asked in the very first line is, you know, who would do that?

What parents would do that? And you're set, you're setting up a 13-year-old who is spending the night with a boyfriend.

Tabitha Westbrook: Which is so weird for a church girl. 

Jen Vrooman: Well, that's interesting that you turned on yourself because I wasn't even thinking about your decision to spend the night with the boyfriend. I was thinking about the adults in the situation on both sides, yours and

Tabitha Westbrook: his. Yeah. That's interesting. I, I [00:18:00] guess I still see it as if I really had the autonomy to say yes or no to even being there. 'cause I didn't, right. It was where my parents took me, you know? And looking back, I wasn't even allowed to listen to rock and roll so that they would let me go over to my boyfriend's house to spend the weekend is so seemingly like outside of what would be okay, but yet it was totally normal and fine. And 

Jen Vrooman: yeah, I would use stronger language totally seemingly outside of being Okay. I, I'm, I have a 13, 14-year-old daughter and it would be a hard no, and absolutely not an awareness of the kind of situation that that would put my daughter in and the partner that she was going [00:19:00] to spend the night with.

I mean, we're hormonal teenagers, 

Tabitha Westbrook: right? 

Jen Vrooman: You know, like nobody's gonna turn that down. If I'm gonna get a free pass to go spend the night at a boy's house that I really like, I'm gonna absolutely do that. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah. Yeah. And they knew he was my boyfriend, so it's not like, it was like, oh, you're gonna go stay with a friend.

You know? They knew that I was dating him. 

Jen Vrooman: They knew And what do you do with the words they knew? 

Tabitha Westbrook: It feels like I was handed over to wickedness. Honestly, if I think about it, like, Hey, we don't wanna be around you. We're gonna put you in this situation that we know probably isn't healthy and we're gonna do it anyway because it serves us.

And that, that sounds like a weighty thing to say. There are other things in my story that tell me that that's more true than people might realize. Um, just in terms of some of the neglect that I [00:20:00] experienced and some of the abuse in my house that I experienced. 

Jen Vrooman: Yeah. You started your sentence with a smile on your face and I was trying to match that with the severity of what you just said.

That they offered you over to wickedness. And then you used the words neglect and your face changed. Like you, there's some sense of the severity in that word neglect. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah, it's a very lonely feeling. Like when I think back on my childhood, it was always very lonely where it was, you aren't really wanted.

We don't really, we don't care for you. Like my personality was always a problem. They very much said I was too loud or too boisterous or too opinionated, and all of those things. And so to say, here, go be away from us for a weekend, was at the time it felt like, great, cool. I don't have to be here with you.

You don't like me [00:21:00] anyway. Um, but looking back on it, it was, we don't want you. So we're happy to hand you over to someone else for some other use, for some other something. That doesn't mean that we have to be engaged. 

Jen Vrooman: Yeah, I think my, my stomach had a reaction to that though. We don't want you and so we're gonna drop you off to be used, I think is what you said.

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah. That's what it feels like. You know, as I sit with it today, like, you know, like, we're gonna, we don't want to have to mess with you. You're too much so go, go be messed with by someone else, you know? And you know, I don't know, like, I couldn't tell you what they thought. Maybe they thought, oh, she'll, you know, the parents are home.

I'm sure there's oversight, who knows? But. There wasn't, [00:22:00] and nobody ever asked a question. It's not like I ever came home and my parents were like, so where did you sleep? Or what did you do? Or anything like that. It was like, okay. And after church we go to lunch and then we go home. So I get dropped off on a Friday night and I go home after church.

Jen Vrooman: Yeah. Yeah. And I have to think like that is very generous to, to think that they would think that there was oversight and parental responsibility because the entire situation is just ludicrous to me. Um, and you said it happened, you know, more than once to be dropped off right? At the, at his house for the weekend?

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah. I mean, I dated this particular person from like 13 to 16, and I would say that it probably happened for at least the better part of a year, maybe more like it was super frequent. 

Jen Vrooman: Yeah. Yeah. [00:23:00] Yeah. And so you get dropped off here in, in some ways, right? Unloaded. You go into this space that part of you enjoys, you enjoy being with him, you enjoy.

Did you say your best friend would often be there too? 

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah, because she was dating his brother. 

Jen Vrooman: Okay. So you got this whole group hanging out and you're doing something purposeful. Even helping with the drywall and learning and being in kind of this sense of community, that feels good, right? And then there's all of these sexual experiences and then the experience with the alcohol.

I mean, you can tell that you are so young because there is such a naivety to you about what is happening to you with the French kissing, right? You. It kind of seemed like you did not like that. Am I [00:24:00] reading that right? 

Tabitha Westbrook: I did not. I was like, what is happening? Yeah. But I remember thinking like, oh, it must be me.

Like, and I think that's a theme I'm hearing in my own story is, oh, it must be me because I didn't like, you know, like I am the one who went over there. I am the one who didn't like being kissed. I should have liked it better or whatever, you know? And so like, you know, it feels in some ways, like I have held it as well.

These are the choices you made,

Jen Vrooman: Tabi you have done deep, deep work already in your life, and I know that the naming of sexual abuse is prominent in your story, in you taking the shame I hear as well what creeping in is like spiritual abuse. It is this mantle of, I should have known better. I'm the sinful one. I am the one that should have had the, should have, [00:25:00] should have, should have.

I I, I. What do you do with that? 

Tabitha Westbrook: Ooh. This is something like, I feel this in my body because there's another piece to this story is I led this person to the Lord, and so there's a piece that feels like, oh, I should have been a better witness right to him, you know, like I. When I was in middle and high school, I hung around with a bunch of kids.

They would've called them head bangers back in the day. Now they'd call 'em emo, or I don't know what you call 'em today. Um, but that would've been the crowd that I was in because that was the crowd that accepted me when I moved, um, from Florida to North Carolina. And so I feel the weight of, oh, I must have made him a sinner because I led him to the Lord.

And then I was doing these things like, you know, saying yes to a shot and going to his house [00:26:00] and all this other stuff. So like I am just like, oh, recognizing that I have held that responsibility, like for his soul. Even like all of these years, 

Jen Vrooman: My shoulders and my back feel so heavy. Like that Tabi that is heaviness that.

That I am having a response to. What can I check in with you and your body? Like what, what's going on for you? 

Tabitha Westbrook: I feel heavy and like I want to cry and like just that I held that weight as if I were the balance between eternity and not eternity for this person, you know? And that if I didn't get it exactly right, which is a lot of the messaging that I've [00:27:00] gotten, like, you know, I got in my childhood was you have to do this exactly right.

You are a pastor's daughter, you are, you know, you cannot ever make a mistake because others will follow you into the gates of hell if you do, was very much the messaging I got and so. Knowing I shouldn't be drinking, you know, and then doing it anyway. And all of that feels like very weighty and sad. 

Jen Vrooman: Very, 

Tabitha Westbrook: oh, 

Jen Vrooman: very.

So I wanna slow way down. There is a lot of weightiness and responsibility that you take on in every moment of this story. I mean, even the first thing that I had noticed, right, was thinking of the responsibility of the adults in [00:28:00] this situation. To say, to say, no, no, no, it, it's not happening. I mean, their no was absent.

Their protection was absent. And you take on that responsibility, the responsibility that is due the adults is, is put on your shoulders. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah. Yeah. And, and the adults there weren't safe, they weren't any safer than the ones in my own home. You know, there are some other things that happened over time that were legitimately scary, um, with this individual's parents and, you know, like waking up and his dad standing over me in a way that was not, it was not good.

You know, it felt very unsafe. And there's some other things with that. You know, knowing that like, it felt [00:29:00] like their responsibility for purity was on me and I was failing at that, that all of the adults, you know, the grown people over 18 expected me to be the gatekeeper for goodness. 

Jen Vrooman: The expectation, the expectation that you would switch places with these adults.

It's difficult in that moment to imagine you're 13 and I have so much compassion for her. She's dropped off into a situation that is no doubt, um, dangerous. Fun and curious and lots of different things mixed in together. And she's depending on the adults that she was just in the car with, to guide her, not to usher her [00:30:00] into danger, but to guide her toward wise choices.

Choices. And that's not at all what you get. That's not at all what you get. And then when you get there, you have adults there, right? That are your boyfriend's parents who are not saying no, who are not guiding you and him into wise choices at all. And their silence is leading you into situations that you don't want to be and you're not comfortable in.

Those aren't your choices. You didn't choose the French kiss, you didn't choose the alcohol, you didn't choose to touch his crotch. These are situations that you did not choose and yet you're there. Is that the bind? 

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah. And I was never asked, do you want this? It was, we are going to do this. 

Jen Vrooman: Mm-hmm. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Right.

It wasn't, how do you feel [00:31:00] about the kiss? How do you feel about the drink? How do you, you know, is this comfortable to you? Right. It was, this is what you're doing and if you want to stay in relationship, like it wasn't explicitly stated, it was very implicit to stay in relationship you will do these things.

Jen Vrooman: Yes. How, I'm so curious, how do you feel about her right now? Can you picture her? 

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah, for sure. I almost wore an Iron Maiden t-shirt actually, to do this story engagement with you. Wow. Um, because it makes me feel close to her and, and to the world that she lived in at the time. Yeah. Um, I didn't, I have a shirt with flowers on for those not watching.

Um, but although it's a little bit of a metal type shirt, actually Yeah. As, as one does, um, right. But I, I do feel close to her and I feel [00:32:00] sad for her. I feel a lot of compassion because she was holding a lot. I think that I, I really know that I didn't realize that she was holding the, what she believed was the weight of his salvation for all of these years.

You know, like, oh, well, you know, how could they still believe in God if I didn't fill in the blank? Like, I wasn't a very good picture of a church girl, you know? Feeling like that, that was my responsibility to hold. Like I have a lot of compassion for the weight she carried. 

Jen Vrooman: Yeah. It's crushing. It's crushing.

She can't explore, she can't fail, she can't be curious, she can't have desire. She's all pinned in and everybody else in the story gets off the hook, but she leaves with the shame. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah. Yeah. And the, you know, my story predates [00:33:00] like purity culture proper. It wasn't given a name in a book and dances and stuff, but it was still there.

It still woven in, you know, that it was my responsibility to keep boys from sinning. And here I was, this girl that led him to the Lord. And here I was not keeping him from sin. And that's. Looking back at that, it's like, oh, A, that wasn't your job. And B, there were adults that should have intervened, that should have known where the kids were at.

That should have, first of all, that my parents shouldn't have said yes and they shouldn't have taken me there and thought it was a great idea. Um, but also like his parents to like keep us safe as well, to give us healthy limits and boundaries, knowing that teenagers are curious and do you have desire and all of that.

And we weren't ever allowed to [00:34:00] talk about those things or ask questions about those things or any of that stuff. But, you know, it would've been maybe different if his parents had said, you know, we're gonna make sure the lights are out. We're gonna get up and check on you guys and make sure y'all are where you're supposed to be or wherever.

You know, and not, and I know that like this is the late eighties. Children were feral in a lot of ways, but there's a difference between drinking out of the water hose outside and hiking through the woods. Then spend the night and we won't know what you're up to. You know? Like that feels radically unsafe and, and 

Jen Vrooman: radically unsafe.

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah. 

Jen Vrooman: And willfully ignorant. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah. 

Jen Vrooman: Right. Not of you willfully ignorant intentionally from the adults. [00:35:00] What do you do with the willfully and intentionally words? 

Tabitha Westbrook: I think it's just sad because there wasn't the right boundaries and protection, you know? Um. I can only imagine, like, you know, I have a son who's now an adult, but when he was a teen, I would never, like you were saying about your own kids, I would never have let him have, you know, a girl spend the night.

And even when, when he had friends over, like I knew what was going on. There were door open policies and you know, and there were limits and boundaries to what could take place in my home. Now that doesn't mean that kids don't sneak, sneak around, right. That can happen. So I'm not saying that they, you know, could have been totalitarian in all of these things.

Um, but it's interesting because as I think back, there was so much control in some areas. [00:36:00] Right. Like we had to work, we had to help with certain things. We were, you know, like it wasn't like optional. It wasn't like, would you like to learn how to drywall? It was, this is the price you pay for being allowed to be here.

That is the distinct feeling I have. 

Jen Vrooman: Yeah. 

Tabitha Westbrook: And so that 

Jen Vrooman: was very odd. It felt like you had to earn your keep. 

Tabitha Westbrook: For sure. That would be a very accurate statement. Like that was the price that we paid for being allowed to be there. So even our presence or my presence, I can't speak for my friend, but I think she probably felt the same, that even my presence there was an imposition and had to be earned.

And so knowing there's such high control in our activities and work and then absolutely no oversight any other place feels very disparate to me. Very opposite. 

Jen Vrooman: Yes. Yeah. I join with you in sadness for her, [00:37:00] uh, for the other young people that are in this scenario. I also join with you in so many of the declarations that you were saying just a moment ago, which I feel like is a turn from where we started our conversation, which is what you were saying about like there should have been limits and there should have been boundaries, and there should not have been this kind of permissiveness or neglect.

There should not have been any of these situations in which you were set up to experience so many different kinds of things that you did not give consent to. I joined with you in the, in the anger and in the justice of that because I do think that you were just a moment ago speaking on behalf of that young girl and of the protection and the dignity that she deserved.

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah. Yeah. What do you do 

Jen Vrooman: with that 

Tabitha Westbrook: protection? I think it's a, it's a welcome [00:38:00] feeling to think she deserved protection and care in a place she couldn't give it to herself. 

Jen Vrooman: Yes. 

Tabitha Westbrook: There were dynamics at play that made, no, I can't, this is a bad idea. Really difficult. And there was no one outside of that. And I'm not saying that my boyfriend was wicked.

I think he was a 13-year-old dude who had a lot of socialization in that way, you know? And I don't know what was going on in his house that Right. Because I, at 13 stealing alcohol from your parents' freezer is a lot. Um, you know, like, you kind of, in a lot of ways as I look back, as a a, an adult and a therapist, like that's abnormal behavior that, you know, normally you see stuff like that at 16, 17.

If the parents are outta town or something like that, which in some ways is, this is gonna sound terrible and I don't mean it as an excuse for anyone, but [00:39:00] more typical developmental behavior. Right. Something you'd more typically see as someone is emerging into adulthood and being curious, you know, at 13, that that was already happening for him.

Means there were things in the house that were probably not good for him either, you know? Yeah. 

Jen Vrooman: And I appreciate there was 

Tabitha Westbrook: no one Yeah. 

Jen Vrooman: Yeah. I, I, I appreciate you accessing, um, some compassion or understanding about him also being 13. And I stand with you in this story, 13-year-old you that you were worthy of.

Do you wanna French kiss? You were worthy of the question. You were worthy of the option. Of you getting to say no, no, just like, just a peck please, or whatever. You know, your answer might have been, [00:40:00] but you were worthy of the question. You were worthy of. Is this okay with you when he grabs your hand and places it on his crotch and even the alcohol you are worthy of?

Um, are you comfortable with this giving you the option? 

Tabitha Westbrook: Right? Yeah. There were a million different places in that story. I could have been honored. 

Jen Vrooman: Could have been honored. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah. You know, it didn't have to be a forced anything. You know, like even after drinking and feeling woozy, like it could have been, well, let me help you sit down versus let me take advantage of you being impaired.

Jen Vrooman: Yes, yes. And my heart is, ugh. It's sad [00:41:00] for the part of you that right there wouldn't have ever even been an option to say, I'm gonna call my parents to come and get me. Because that, 

Tabitha Westbrook: yeah, 

Jen Vrooman: that, that's the part, that's the setup, that's the part where all of that weight comes on your shoulders. But what choice do you have if that option and this option are still not good options?

Tabitha Westbrook: Oh yeah, there's, you know, it's interesting you mentioned calling my parents. That would've been a no. Like, first of all, we didn't have cell phones. 

Jen Vrooman: Yes. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah. We didn't have cell phones. Like, I'm old enough that I predate them. Yeah. Um, but also, like, I cannot imagine, right. They're probably parents listening who are like, oh my gosh, if that happened to my kid, all they'd have to do is call my house and, you know, call the phone or whatever.

And, you know, immediately I would go get them. If I called my parents and woke them up, 'cause this was late at night, like, I would have been in trouble. It wouldn't have been like, let [00:42:00] me come rescue you. It would've been, why are you calling and you need to figure it out. Like, or if they even answered at all, like the, the, the fear that I feel in my body of even thinking about having called them at the time, oh, not a chance.

Not a chance. 

Jen Vrooman: Which makes me feel even closer and more compassion. For that 13-year-old who really did not have much choice at all. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah. There was no 

Jen Vrooman: option. You were dropped off by them, but the idea of calling them to rescue you in an unsafe situation would've been a no no way. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah. 

Jen Vrooman: There is a sense of trapped ness that is, um, I'm not okay with, 

Tabitha Westbrook: yeah, it was, it was a huge bind because it was, I will even if like the, the bind, the weight even still like, as I think back on it and I think about what she [00:43:00] felt at 13, what I felt at 13, like what were my options?

I couldn't wake up his parents because we'd all be in trouble maybe. I don't know. That could have gone badly. Right? Like I have that distinct sense that it would've gone very badly. I would have lost relationship. I would've been made fun of at school. I was already picked on so much at school, you know, and so it would've been even worse.

I would've been a snitch. I would've been a lot of things. And then to call my parents would have, I, I, I think I probably would've gotten beaten realistically, you know, when I got home. If they, which they wouldn't come to get me, they would still, I still wouldn't have gone home till Sunday. Yeah. And then it would've been awful.

So like, even though I couldn't have put words to that at 13, like that was the landscape. That was the life that I lived with. There was nowhere to go. It was where to go follow along, or if I didn't follow along, lose relationship when I was so desperate to be cared for,[00:44:00] 

Jen Vrooman: I am taking a big, deep breath. There was nowhere to go.

What does that feel like? 

Tabitha Westbrook: Brings up? 

Jen Vrooman: Yeah, 

Tabitha Westbrook: it's weighty, but it's so much compassion.

Jen Vrooman: Yeah. 

Tabitha Westbrook: She really didn't have anywhere to go and, you know, even the questions, you know, and the fear, like it was ignored, you know, it was, you know, well there, I'm sure there was a choice that could have said no to drinking.

It didn't feel like a no was accessible because the cost to relationship would've been too high. 

Jen Vrooman: Yeah. It didn't feel like no was accessible. It didn't feel like rescue was accessible, and I do. Is, is your sense of compassion [00:45:00] for that 13-year-old expanding. There were many things that were not accessible to her.

She did have a very strong inner voice that question, what are we doing? What is this gross? Who would want this? And it's funny and silly, and I see that in you present day, but then there's also this strong inner, like what you have this, this rumblings and the beginnings of this voice within you. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Mm-hmm.

Jen Vrooman: That over time, right? You have been able to, to walk into and it has been able to integrate into your body, your mind, and your soul. Then at 13, there were a lot of other people involved, parents and church leaders with crushing expectations. That gave you limited, that gave you limited access to wisdom, had access to choice, [00:46:00] limited access to rescue. I have this picture in my mind of taking off that backpack that is so heavy on your back and laying it down on the ground. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah. That's a good image. That's a good image. Because at that point in time, there really, you know, there was so much, even at the church that I went to, like when this particular boyfriend broke up with me, I cried 'cause it happened at a youth ice skating event.

And um, and I was removed from the worship team because leaders don't cry. 

Jen Vrooman: What? 

Tabitha Westbrook: And yeah, and I was a child. But leaders don't cry. Leaders don't show emotion. Leaders are always strong. And that is the messaging I had from that church.

Jen Vrooman: Mm-hmm. Is all I have to say. Mm-hmm. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah. 

Jen Vrooman: Right. And this is the, I I, before we even move into maybe [00:47:00] even looking at the story engagement from, you know, the outside looking in, is this a okay place for us to just pause? 

Tabitha Westbrook: Yes. 

Jen Vrooman: How are, how are you feeling? 

Tabitha Westbrook: I'm actually feeling relief because I didn't know that I was still carrying the weight of someone else's salvation all these decades later.

Yeah. So it, it feels like a release to know, like, that wasn't ever mine to hold. 

Jen Vrooman: No, no. What a holy declaration. It's not ours to hold.

Oh, thank you for letting me be with you in that snapshot. And I think for other people to know too that. Story engagement can go so many different directions, right? Because if we were to meet again and you were to read the story again, which is often how story engagement goes, we would go [00:48:00] deeper. We would go further.

We may open another window to another part of your story. But I'm just wondering for you Tabi, like how, how was that experience for you? 

Tabitha Westbrook: It was really good and, and it was a little bit scary. I'm not gonna lie. I am curious how when this releases to the world, people will hear my story, um, and what their thoughts about me might be.

But also I am grateful to have insight that I didn't have before and to go, wait a second. There's this piece that I didn't even write down that came up that I have held about my responsibility. You know, I can, as a therapist and a grown woman these days, I can go, yeah. Like that was not really a place I could say no, but didn't realize I held so much weight because I was the one that led him to the Lord.

And the messaging around me was, you are [00:49:00] responsible. You are responsible for everything. And so to be able to let that go and to know that that was never mine to hold, I don't have to hold that. I feel that relief in my body. And I feel the release of, oh, you, you, you don't, you don't have to. You, it wasn't your fault, essentially.

You know, it wasn't your, you did, you weren't responsible for holding that. It wasn't your fault. Like there were things that were happening in your life that you can, that you can let go of now, you know? 

Jen Vrooman: Yeah. And I get this picture even like of the backpack that I was thinking of, like of us unzipping that backpack and then pulling out each weight and giving it to the person that it belongs to.

Like, here is the weight that belongs to the church that I grew up in. That taught me what it taught me about girls and my responsibility, but then also what it taught me about salvation and my [00:50:00] responsibility over someone's soul. Right? And then the fear that's associated with that, depending on what.

Salvation, like what you were taught, like what happens if you're not saved? Then you have fear and guilt all mixed into that. Here's the weight of that back. Here's the weight to my parents who neglected their responsibility, who opened the gate to wickedness and let me walk right into it. Right? Here's the weight of their, like to his parents, who should never have been the host of four teenagers ever, 

Tabitha Westbrook: right?

Yeah. 

Jen Vrooman: I'll see now 

Tabitha Westbrook: without some good, serious boundaries, man, 

Jen Vrooman: serious. B, like I hope, I don't know if anybody watching is like, well, I don't know if it, it's okay if it's, to me, I am just like a no, no. There's plenty to worry about at that age, and you don't want to give your [00:51:00] children an opportunity to get into situations that are even harder than what they're already going through.

And so in some ways it is just a hard no for me as a parent. And so here's the weight to his parents for not saying something and for not putting down their no. And here's the weight to him for, yes, he's 13, but you can ask, you can ask if I'm comfortable, you can ask if I would want to do this or if I wouldn't want to do this.

To be, to have it forced onto me knowing that I really like you and really think you're cute is, uh, just a confusing mix of guilt, right? Because that's what it is, is like, well, I chose this and I said, yes. Well, here's the weight he didn't ask. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Right? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I think there's, you know, that lightens the weight that I carry, right?

Because I could have said, [00:52:00] no, I, I, I wouldn't have been physically assaulted, I don't think that was not the kind of person he was. I might have lost relationship, but I can carry the weight of not taking that risk and, and it's not I big a weight as the other weights that we just gave away either. 

Jen Vrooman: Yeah.

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah. You know, and so like, I think that 

Jen Vrooman: is free 

Tabitha Westbrook: and 

Jen Vrooman: maybe, yeah, maybe if we would have engaged the story again, we could meet, you know, on that point of, I could have said no because that, that's layered, it's layered with shame. Yeah. It's layered with expectation. It's layered with what is choice. Right. Uh, in terms of the systems that we're raised in.

Right. You, you already named in your story that you didn't have access to rescue. And there was so much that you had already lost.

Tabitha Westbrook: That's true. 

Jen Vrooman: And there was a relationship in front of you, three other [00:53:00] relationships in front of you that you were at risk of losing. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Right. Which would've been my whole world at 13.

Truly 

Jen Vrooman: your whole world. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah, for sure. Because we spent so much time together. 

Jen Vrooman: Yeah, yeah, 

Tabitha Westbrook: yeah. 

Jen Vrooman: Anything else that you are thinking about, about that story engagement? I am honored that you would let me, um, enter in with you and, um, yeah. You've already done such deep work on your story and on, on your life.

And so I think for people that are even listening, like my personal choice to not necessarily go toward the sexual. Decisions in this story were intentional in that there was some other, like big words, sinful, you know, I, I, I knew it was wrong and I just was, I felt so [00:54:00] curious about that. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah. Yeah. I think if, if, and for the listening audience that is, I would eventually get to those places with Yeah.

If I were engaging the story as well, or if I were, if we were to be doing this in a more one-on-one coaching, not on a podcast Yeah. Setting, like those would a hundred percent be places to go. And I think that's the beauty of story engagement and why retelling a story, even after you go through the initial engagement brings up more of those things.

Right. Because. We only have so much time when we're meeting with people most of the time. So we have to tar, you know, like walk into different parts of the story 

Jen Vrooman: Yeah. 

Tabitha Westbrook: In those places. And then there's still sometimes so much more. 'cause those, those pieces would be valid pieces to engage. I would for sure engage them.

Jen Vrooman: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. We wouldn't not, or we wouldn't avoid, you know, out of any kind of [00:55:00] discomfort. It is just like opening the windows and walking into the pathways as they come. Right, 

Tabitha Westbrook: right. Absolutely. 

Jen Vrooman: Um, one, one session at a time. It's why I, I don't think one session is ever enough and I don't think one story engagement is ever enough.

Um, I think one story being engaged at least twice would give someone a little bit more of an idea of the depth and the width of story work and, and what it offers. I think I feel a strong sense of like, we just did something really brave. This is your podcast, this is your story. Um, how, as like, as a friend, how are you?

Tabitha Westbrook: I am good. I feel very much safe, obviously with you, but you know that. Yeah. Um, and I felt good about bringing this story, for lack of a better way to put it. Public consumption. 

Jen Vrooman: Yeah. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Um, 'cause it is one I've done some work with [00:56:00] and so it wasn't like the most dysregulating thing I could share. Mm-hmm. But I wanted it to be real.

And I think that's. The importance of, of the story that I brought is I wanted to bring one that I knew still had things I could work with. 

Jen Vrooman: Yeah. 

Tabitha Westbrook: And I really wanted people to get the sense of what is this really like, you know, and and to have that experience with us as they listen. 

Jen Vrooman: Yeah. 

Tabitha Westbrook: So I feel really good about it and I'm hopeful that it will be helpful for folks who are thinking like, okay, I've heard you talk about story engagement.

Yeah. What is that really? 

Jen Vrooman: Right. 

Tabitha Westbrook: And to get a sense of it with us. 

Jen Vrooman: Yeah. And you know, my style of story engagement is mine. Right. And you can meet with another story, work coach or a spiritual director or a therapist who's trained in story work and maybe get a different flavor of it. Which I think is the beauty too, is everybody has a different way in which they show up.

The framework is [00:57:00] similar, but um, your. What you're able, like the person that you're with and the questions that they ask or the presence that they have. It's all, it's all different, you know? So I have to be aware of that too for myself. Like, I feel kind of honored and also like an imposter syndrome. Like I'm the one that's representing story work, not just me, but, um, I don't wanna put myself down, but I also want to honor the humility of, I am a particular style of story work.

Right. Um, and you are as well. So, yeah, I, I was waring back and forth in my spirit about that too, which is, um, oh my gosh, are you gonna be good enough at this? And I was talking to myself even before we started and I, I said, um, I'm who I am. And so that's, that's what I'll bring is myself, [00:58:00] 

Tabitha Westbrook: and it's a good self.

Without question. Me too. And you know, I have loved doing this with you. I do hope that, you know, as people listen to this episode, they think about reaching out to you and maybe doing some story work with you. Yeah. Because I think you're fantastic, obviously. Um, and, you know, and that it gives them a sense of what story work can look like.

And like you said, you know, a a a different story would even have a different flavor. So if we brought a different story of harm, the engagement's gonna look a little bit different. But I really love what you said about walking through it more than once. Yeah. 'cause there are gonna be things that you're like, oh, oh my goodness.

You know, like, oh, this is there and, and some are gonna end up feeling much bigger than you expect. Yeah. Like the first one that I ever brought to our NFTC group where I was like, wow, that was a lot more than I was thinking. 

Jen Vrooman: Yes. 

Tabitha Westbrook: But like finding those places in it and going, yeah. [00:59:00] Okay. Yeah, that, that makes sense.

My body settles with that a bit. 

Jen Vrooman: Yeah. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Um, it can be really helpful. And then having people turn their face toward you instead of away and in these stories of harm, like we named some of the faces that turned away from me in these moments. And so to have someone turn toward me and go, that is awful. That is not okay.

You know, that is very healing and like, yes, yes. That was awful and it was not. Okay. 

Jen Vrooman: Yeah. To not minimize it because it's worth not minimizing. Like you're worth your value, all of your goodness, all of what you are worth. Protecting, honoring, guiding, you know, there's grief in that because we each encounter the grief of I didn't get that right.

Tabitha Westbrook: Yeah. 

Jen Vrooman: And we can't change what we didn't get. And yet with story work, there is some sense of going back and touching. On what we didn't get and imagining [01:00:00] what, what we were worth instead, or imagining what could have been. And there is still some healing in that because you come to this awareness of, oh, my parents did drop me off.

They did open the door. They did say yes and so did his. And there is something to say about that responsibility. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Right. 

Jen Vrooman: That is wholly not yours. Hmm. 

Tabitha Westbrook: Yep. Absolutely. And again, like, you know, like we talked about, there's still space for grace for all of the other parties Sure. In this. Right. And so I, I just wanna say that because I think there are some people that will listen and be like, but what about their brokenness?

And it's like, we can cover that. If we were continuing to engage this story, we'd probably cover all of it realistically. Yeah. So I just, I just wanna remind folks that this was a snapshot in time of even story work. So, you know, there are many more places that this can and could go. Um. If we kept working with it.

So just throwing that out there for [01:01:00] everybody to listen to. And Jen, it is a delight. It's always a delight for me to see your face. I just love you. I love you too. But it was such a delight for you to be here, for you to engage my story. Thank you for doing it so well, and for caring well for me in this process and, you know, holding the weight with me as we walked through this story.

And for anybody out there who's like, I really need to talk to Jen, I'm so glad because her contact information is going to be in the show notes so you can reach out to her and, you know, get on her calendar if you want to do this type of thing for yourself. And, you know, I would just commend it to you.

If you've never tried it, it, you know, it, it's, it's a worthy work. It's a worthy experience to walk through one of your stories with someone and see how it impacts you. Um, and like Jen said, do it twice. So Jen, thank you. Thank you for being here. 

Jen Vrooman: Uh, well thank you for being you. [01:02:00] 

Tabitha Westbrook: Thank you. So this is it for this week's episode of Hey Tabi.

Make sure you like and subscribe and follow and do all of those things. Make sure you reach out to Jen if you wanna do some story work, and we will see you here again next time. 

Thanks for joining me for today's episode of Hey Tabi. If you're looking for a resource that I mentioned in the show and you wanna check out the show notes, head on over to tabitha westbrook.com/hey Tabi, that's H-E-Y-T-A-B-I, and you can grab it there. I look forward to seeing you next time.