I sold my company for £100m | Alexis Sikorsky | Episode 3 |

From Basement Startup to Nine-Figure Exit: Insights from Alexis Sikorsky
In this episode of Finance for Founders, host Samuel Ajala interviews special guest Alexis Sikorsky. Alexis shares his inspiring journey from launching a software company in his basement to making a nine-figure exit. They discuss the importance of knowing your numbers, having a strategic acquisition plan, and overcoming the challenges that come with rapid business growth. Alexis emphasises the need for a 'war chest,' building customer trust, and being honest with financial assessments. Tune in for valuable advice on navigating the ups and downs of entrepreneurship, scaling your business, and preparing for a lucrative exit.

In this Episode, we discuss:

00:00 Introduction and Special Guest Announcement
02:00 Alexis Sikorsky's Early Career and Ventures
04:26 Building and Scaling New Access
07:45 Navigating Challenges and Acquisitions
09:26 Lessons from Failures and Successes
16:26 The Importance of Early Acquisitions
17:35 Managing and Integrating Acquisitions
26:15 Overcoming Financial Crises and Personal Struggles
33:46 Early Entrepreneurial Experiences
34:16 Leadership vs. Management
35:22 Identifying Leadership Qualities
36:23 The Importance of Knowing Your Role
38:12 Navigating Today's Economy
40:39 Pursuing Passion in Business
41:51 Challenges and Rewards of Teaching
47:29 The Apex Methodology
49:09 Financial Literacy and Business Success
58:01 Balancing Family and Entrepreneurship
59:58 Advice for Young Entrepreneurs
01:04:14 Final Thoughts and Encouragement

Make sure to get your copy of Alexis best-selling book "Cashing Out" here: https://amzn.eu/d/0bV52ght

Launching and growing a business can be unpredictable – so a clear vision and a strategy for exit is essential to navigate these choppy waters. If you’re not sure where you’re going and how to get there, feel weighed down by responsibility and tough decision-making, and struggle to balance work and personal life, Cashing Out is your lifeline. Using the time-tested, actionable APEX methodology for scaling businesses and avoiding common mistakes, this book provides proven strategies for CEOs and for visionary founders who want to sell to private equity and secure a life-changing deal.

Connect with Alexis on his website: https://www.asikorsky.com/my-book

Connect with Alexis on his Linkedin channel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexis-sikorsky-consulting/

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Transcript

Samuel: 0:02

Hi guys. Um, hope you're well. It's Samuel Ajala here and welcome to another episode of Finance for Founders. Uh, today I have a privilege of having a special guest in our midst today. Uh, this guest, um, The first time I heard about him, maybe I was at a conference, uh, by Daniel Priestley or maybe an online segment with Daniel Priestley and I heard his name come up and I thought I need to do some research on him and I've literally been blessed, uh, by his content. by his stories and his willingness to share some of his failures and successes as well. Um, as a special advisor, he has launched, skilled, advised and sold businesses. His journey includes building a company for 20 years and eventually making a nine figure exit. Having done more than this more than once, he understands the isolations, overwhelms and challenges founders face in making crucial, Decisions for their businesses future as a special advisor. He brings extensive industry specific knowledge to support businesses inside out. His focus is on crafting credible propositions, guiding business into new territories and fortifying them for the future. the future. And he recently wrote a book called cashing out, which basically talks about his journey from starting a business back in Switzerland and eventually selling it over to private equities as well. Um, he's name and he goes by the name of Alexis Sikorsky. If I've mispronounced, I'm sure he'll correct me. Um, Alexis Sikorsky. Once again, welcome to our podcast. How are you?

Alexis: 1:53

I'm good. Thank you, Samuel. I know you said my name right, which is actually pretty well.

Samuel: 1:59

Fantastic. And do you want to tell our audience a little bit about yourself?

Alexis: 2:05

Oh, just like that. Um, okay. Yeah, briefly. Um, I had a eventful beginning of my life with working in the movies industry, working in advertising and then. Opening the first internet cafe and private, private internet service provider in Senegal. in West Africa. So that was my 20s. And at the end of my 20s, I started my 30s back in Geneva and starting a software company that was called New Access. It started as a bespoke development company doing Internet websites. You remember in 2000 that was the height. And then in 2003 we acquired from bankruptcy. Um, Uh, electronic document management software, um, software for private banks, and that's when we started to grow in this area. So we grow the company from two people in my basement in 2000 to roughly probably 50 people on 10, 11 million revenue in 2008. And that's when, you know, everything was going fantastic, profitable and having a good life. And in 2008, some, some of you, the older people might remember that something happened called the global financial crisis. So from one day in 2008, basically we lost 75 percent of all our revenues. So go through lots of tough times. And in 2014, we get approached by a private equity. And after a long conversation and negotiation, they acquired 75 percent of the company. And then up until 2019, I sold the remaining of my shares to the same private equity and retired. And since then I've been, yeah, helping founders to, to grow their company to a size where they can consider a nine figure exit and help them sell their company.

Samuel: 4:24

Fantastic. Um, Alexis, how did you, um, navigate yourself from having a, uh, internet cafe in Senegal or having a business in Senegal to start in, uh, this, uh, company? Um, in Switzerland, and one of the things I've noticed, I know some of your clients with some of the large clients, um, I know it's skilled as well through acquisition. There's a few companies at a time as well that you acquired. Um, and we're going to get into that with more details as well, but just talk us a little bit about your transition, uh, from being in Senegal, how you in Senegal and how you now transitioned back to Switzerland. Um, my transition

Alexis: 5:07

was actually mainly political,

Samuel: 5:10

so

Alexis: 5:10

let's make a long story short, there's been a change in power in Senegal, and let's say the new people in power were not Uber friendly. And basically after they put my Senegalese partner in prison and after my French part died during the night, I really felt that it was a good time to leave the country in, let's say, in kind of a rush. So I had basically 24 hours to. leave the country and I left with one with a suitcase and none of my possessions. So that's, yeah, it was not really, um, a decision more like my hands was forced a little bit. Yeah. Sorry, sorry, Samuel, go ahead. No, please go ahead. And then I, I arrived in Geneva with basically a suitcase and scratching my head in what to do next. So I, I actually got a job as, um, well, that's not very glorious, but I got a job as a computer trainer. in a small I. T. Training company, and it's actually interesting because I was really not as much as an expert, but I'm pretty good at budgeting my way through some content. So on. I realize that's the first time that actually it was a good teacher, and that was that really came as a surprise for me because I never tried it. And And I did that for 14 months, which is, um, by the way, the only time I've been employed in my life. So I was an employee for 14 months. And after that, I bought the company from the owner, um, because the, he was, he was getting tired and the company was not going anywhere. So I bought this company, brought it to like 2 million revenue, was super smart and then went bankrupt. Um, and then that's when I started the company that actually end up being, being a success. So you'll see through my life, there's way more failures than successes.

Samuel: 7:29

Fantastic. Could you tell us a little bit more about that? Um, uh, you just said that. Your, um, life, your journey has way more failures than successes. Oh, so many. Do you want to talk us through a little bit about that?

Alexis: 7:45

Well, let's take this example because every, like the key, really the key concept I'd like to put forward. And I try to tell people I work with and pretty much everybody who listened is like, failure is not an issue as long as you learn from it. Like as long as you don't make the same one every time. So let's. Take the computer training because that was a fantastic learning, like just fantastic lesson. Um, a company was doing computer training for companies doing small company doing half a million per year or maybe a million per year. And I got the brilliant genius idea of, um. Talking to the government and take unemployed people and make them computer engineers. I remember we were talking like 1999, 2000, so it was not as common as it is now. And actually, that was a really, a great success. Um, and like hundreds of people we, we took and we turned them into, into, um, computer engineers. Yeah, so we met. Good money. The company grow, I think to, I don't remember, three or 5 million revenue. And then the government changed and they didn't find it as I'm using. And that was it. That was the end for me. So like lesson number one, do not relate on one client. So lesson number one in Senegal was do not get too close to power. Which by the way, I was not, but they thought I was. And, and, um, sorry. And yeah, lesson number two, do not rely on one client. So that's how you learn, right?

Samuel: 9:25

Absolutely. And in fact, you, you mentioned, um, in your book, um, about advising businesses about if, uh, uh, your client is responsible for 80 percent of your income and things like that, uh, is a very dangerous position because they go bust. Uh, the business will be, um, affected. So I think what I would, uh, auction now is your journey from your company that you started in, um, Switzerland, Geneva, and that you scaled on you eventually sold private equity, tell us a little bit more, uh, about that business and your role within that business.

Alexis: 10:05

Okay. Um, So started in 2000, uh, in my basement with my best friend. Sounds familiar, but that's like just, it's not a startup story why we didn't get funding. It was, it was all grinding. So started the two of us. Um, 2000. If you remember, well, yeah, you probably still remember. Lots of people don't anymore. Uh, it's the kind of the Internet bubble, the dot com bubble, but it's basically, um, that I'm where Internet switch from being a presentation tool to being a business tool, right? It's when you see the product. Yeah. Beginning of e commerce of payment of like starting to actually be able to do stuff on Internet. It's the third generation languages like dot net, like Java, that that actually allow you to build web application. And so we started that I was running the training company I just mentioned, and my friend was finishing his PhD in theoretical physics. Um, so basically do we always have the same routine? We came back from our day job and start working from 8 p. m. to 2 a. m. And we did that six days a week. And we started like having a few clients, um, working a lot with British and American tobacco at the time, or doing lots of data stuff anyway, um, in 2000 to 2003 company grew from. Two to probably eight people. Um, and then, yeah, one of our employees say, Hey, you should look at my former, my former company. They're going bankrupt, but they have a fantastic product. So we went to see, and they did have a fantastic product. They had, um, um, electronic document management software for private banks. They had 40 clients and we're looking at the product and we're looking at the number and they say, how the hell do they manage, did they manage to get bankrupt? Like how they were getting, I don't remember that's like three and a half million revenue per year. And there was, they were massively overstaffed, but still like how do you get bankrupt? So when to see the government and say, Hey, make you a deal. We're going to get the source code for this product for very cheap. But in exchange, we commit in rehiring everyone. So that's how we started. Um, so that's 2003. Suddenly we are like 20 people in the company, three something million revenue and two very different, um, streams. Like one is doing bespoke development software and the other one is being a software editor actually. So we got rid of the first of the first stream like and focusing being an editor and then yeah, we acquired a few more company up to 2008.

Samuel: 13:07

Fantastic. Alexis, you mentioned something there. You said that one of the things that you've said is that, um, the company was overstaffed at the time. Right? Yeah. However, in your book, you actually mention that one of the ways you got that deal over the line from all of the other, um, um, companies that were approaching the government was the fact that they, um, you promised that you won't get rid of any stuff. Yeah. So how did you navigate your way and how did you continue to trade? Because the first thing somebody in that position would have done to cut costs is cut stuff, especially if they believed it was over stuff. How did you manage that process, that transition when you took over? Well, mainly

Alexis: 13:55

with the help of my clients. So, anecdote, fun one. I don't think this one is in the book. Maybe it is. Um, so the, the, this decision on the, um, on the, the source code was through an auction. So there were 10, uh, like, um, software company auctioning, but As we had this deal with the government, we had a very, how can I say that nicely, we were a little bit more informed on what's going on than our competitors. So basically after the auction, I get back to my office. It was like 8 PM and I get back to my office and the phone rings. And I pick up the phone and I hear a very loud English voice with a touch of Scottish accents and say, Hey, my name is Ian and I'm your new best friend. And I say, okay. And he said, I'm the COO of your biggest client. Please come to my office tomorrow morning at nine. So I went and basically we struck a deal and he said, well, thank you for not letting the company goes bankrupt. And thank you for taking over the staff, because for us it's mission critical, it's a very important software. So say I'm going to cut you a deal, if you do what you said, if you keep developing the product, not firing the people and not trying to make a quick buck, I'll be in your corner and I'll buy everything you build, etc. So that was the beginning of like, and I went to see all the client and say, okay, guys, let's make a deal. I'm going to make your life easier. I'm going to continue maintaining the product and develop it. But in exchange you're in my corner and that's how it worked. And it was like 90 percent of the client, that's how it worked. So we actually didn't fire people because we increased revenue immediately. Wow. Wow.

Samuel: 15:49

Um, one of the, um, people I really like to, uh, listen to is Alex Hormozy. Um, he has a company called acquisition. com and his whole model is acquiring businesses. I wanted to ask you, what would you say is the fastest way to scale one of the fastest way to scale? And also, um, being that you've mentioned about acquisitions, um, how easy is it to get acquisition? What is the easiest approach to actually scaling your business?

Alexis: 16:26

Oh, I'm 100%. I'm an M& A guy. Like, I always push towards acquiring. And when my client asks me, When is the good time to make our first acquisition? My answer is now. Like, always earlier than you think. So, yes, I'm a big, big, big, uh, fan of acquisition and yeah, there's a few tricks. So the easiest way to make an acquisition, well, first of all, you need to find the company you want to buy. So that's, I'd say it's the hardest and the longest step, right? Choose what to buy. And when you know what you want to buy, it's all about financing and that's actually pretty easy. There's no real complexity here. And then the last time, the last step is integrating. And that's hard, like there is no, there is no shortcut in there. Um, you have to like work with people who know how to do that and, or get yourself ready. It's complicated because you're integrating different culture and yeah, it's hard.

Samuel: 17:35

What were the biggest obstacles, uh, when integrating, uh, when you took over a new business? Um, I know in the book it was you and your business partner. Um, he was the, as you described it, he was the code. Uh, he was the very technical one. Whereas you were the sales marketing. You went from two, you grew to eight. The company you took over, I think had a 14. Um, by which time you had already scaled after your first acquisition to about 22, 23 employees with that scaling and inquiring a new business. What are the difficulties that you face? Uh, or any other person that wants to go into, um, acquiring another business. You mentioned culture. What are the various challenges as a business owner you're likely to face?

Alexis: 18:22

This one honestly was easy. Uh, first of all, we knew the people and scaling from 8 to 20 is easy because you don't change model, right? You, you are family company before the acquisition. You stay a family company after the acquisition. It just brings a new guy in new guys in the family. It's relatively easy, especially. They've been through bankruptcy, so they've been worried about their job. They've been probably slightly mistreated and unpaid. And you're like, you're the Messiah. It's a good one. It's easy in that case. The last one, the last one were harder because we were, um, I don't remember the exact number, but I think we were a 15 million revenue company and we acquired a 25 million revenue company. Who was, um, part of, um, who was actually not an acquisition. It was a carve out from a bigger company. So this one was very difficult because this was difficult from a, it was very technical, so I wouldn't have been able to do it without the private equity. Um, but also like we were French speaking Swiss, they were German speaking Swiss, very different work methodology. Um, like I think the key is first of all, you work from bottom to top, you integrate the teams and you start with the, um, with the engineers, with the developers, with the people who like have a language in common, and then you go up the chain and integrate, um, at every level. And the key is to make them understand it is not a merger. It's an acquisition, right? So you have to be very open, open to conversation, but at the end of the day you are buying them and not the other way around, right? So like basically it's, it's, it's not a democracy, right? So at the end of the day, it's about making people happy, but also be sure you go to the direction you want to go.

Samuel: 20:22

Fantastic. Uh, you also mentioned, um, um, integrating or acquiring early. I think you hit the nail on the head. I think. That many people assume they're too small to acquire another company. They're too early in their journey to acquire another company. I believe that after reading your book, this is one of the things that stood out like a sore thumb. You're not too early in, um, acquiring, and you gave a few steps that somebody or some people, company owners should take when considering acquiring. My question to you is, at what stage can a company begin to acquire? And what are the, if I'm going to ask two fold questions. What are the steps somebody takes to acquire? At what stage do they take? And how do you identify, um, companies? Because I think one of the things that has me baffled at times is that, A, you can get a smaller company acquiring a bigger company. B, you can find companies that are quite profitable. Not making huge losses and turning over millions. Why would somebody in that situation want to sell their business? Um, please, I've asked quite a number of questions that I hope you're able to capture that.

Alexis: 21:50

I think I got it. Um, first one is how soon? I'd say as soon as you have a penny in your wallet chest. So the one thing I, I, I tell my client is like, have a war chest, have at least six months, if not 12 months of burn rates in your bank account, as soon as you can. And like, that's from my own experience, right? Going back, I still have nightmares of 2008. Well, like we were making, I don't remember, but probably something around two and a half, three million profit per year. So we were living like kings, like, uh, not, not myself personally, but the company, like every, everybody, we, we went to, Every time we saw somebody that might even be remotely good, we will hire him and put him on the bench, right? Like, because, oh, this guy's really good, but we don't really need him, but we'll find a job for him and stuff like that. We were, we were like spending like crazy because we could. And then 2008 hit and we realized, oh, that would have been nice to have a few million in the bank account instead of spending it. And so that's one reason. The other reason is for any kind of acquisition. You'll need a little bit of cash, cash. Not, not a lot. Because it's very, very easy to finance an acquisition. Um, but yeah, you need a bit of cash. So as soon as you have, uh, I have a few clients like that and they have a target. Like as soon as they have a hundred thousand pound in their bank account, I make an acquisition for them. It's, it's all it takes. Um, so really as soon as possible, there's no, I see no reason not to acquire early because it's, it's the easier ones, right? Yeah. And to answer your second question is why would people sell? Um, well, if you, I mean, some of the founders will, will relate to that. You very soon. So to two main streams of acquisition and we're talking small companies there, right? First one is, um, most of the founders in that listen to that will understand the concept of being a situation and cash flow. Like when you are a funder, very, very often you, you have a successful company and, and if your plan is to grow, you take a very small salary. You don't take any dividends. So you tend to be cashflow. So the, the appeal of a check is actually very high at that point. And the other reason, and that's one of the target I love is succession, right? Like a lot of people, a lot of founders approach the retirement age, uh, or they're just exhausted. Like, it is an exhausting job. You know that Samuel, right? You, you, it, it, it is exhausting. And at some point you just want out and it's just finding the right number for these people to get out.

Samuel: 24:40

Have you ever seen a, a deal that's been done with, um, little to no cash done?

Alexis: 24:47

Um, so there is an old French joke that I'm gonna try to translate the best as I, as I can is, um, uh, the guy who wrote two books, the first book is how to acquire a company without cash. And the second one is my five years in jail. No, I'm, I'm, I'm joking. You, you see a deal with no cash. And actually I know a few people who are specialists in that. Um, but it's. What I call technical deal. It's not what I do. Like you, you, you basically identify company that are in distress most of the time that people have no choice and they find a way to make them better. I don't like that kind of deal. It's super exciting. It's super interesting, but I don't know, like a deal where basically the solution to the problem is firing most of the stuff. It's not something I enjoy doing, so I don't do it. Um, because thank God I reached a point in my life where I can choose what I enjoy to do. And firing people is by far the least enjoyable thing in my life. Like I'd rather have, like, I'd rather go to the dentist and do that. So I don't do deal that, that, well, the main solution is to actually fire people. I'm not comfortable. But yeah, no, no, there are deals like that to, to be had. It is possible.

Samuel: 26:15

So how do you manage sacking people? In your book, I saw that you had two rounds of sacking in 2008 where, um, the bubble, um, global recession was approaching. Um, and you said the first round was a lot easier because these are people you hired that you had no business hiring. But the second set of sackings Were those that were close to you friends. And then you also had a little segment about, um, um, hiring family members or relatives. Do you want to give us a, a little bit about that? Tell us a little bit more about that and your views.

Alexis: 26:52

Um, well first, how do you manage that? Well, you throw up, you don't sleep, you feel miserable. You hate yourself, you cry. You, you call in a, in, in a fetal position in the corner of the room. I, I, if, if I knew how. To do that easily, I would be in a different job. And I actually know people who do that. I know people who do that as a job and they go, they fire a hundred people, that they pack up and they go in another company firing another hundred people. I know people who actually, I know one person who actually was very comfortable doing that. And to be honest, he was very comfortable, but he ended up in a very bad mental breakdown. And I think it's really hard. So I don't think there is any way of coping nicely with that. And. I think the best way is try to not to put yourself in that situation if you can avoid it. And that's again, war chest, right? If you have a little reserve, like you weather storms. Um, I use a biblical story, me, that's like, I don't very often use biblical stories, but Genesis 41, right?

n/a: 27:56

Hmm?

Alexis: 27:57

Genesis 41. Oh, I'm not that as expert of that, the seven, the skinny cows and the fat cows. Yes. Yes. Yes. I know there's somewhere in Genesis, but like, I wouldn't be able to quote it. And, and your second question is how to. Um, what was your second question?

Samuel: 28:17

Sorry. I, um, uh, so, uh, we spoke, the first part was identify how do you do so Yeah. And then the second part is how did you overcome during that period of where you had to do it, but we had the financial crunch. How did you overcome?

Alexis: 28:34

Ah, I, uh, mortgaged, remortgaged my house, uh, worked even harder and put everything I had in the company. Um, every month having a conversation with myself, am I putting too much good money chasing bad money? Is there even a way out of this hole? And being majorly depressed and over eating, over smoking, over drinking coffee. Uh, like there's no, like I'm not a well being guy. Like I don't know how you, I know how I did it. It's just pushing through and survival and resilience. Um, yeah, there might be other way, but I don't know.

Samuel: 29:18

So how did you come over, um, this period as well? So many people go into business and they see, um, the glitz and glamour. They like the lights. I'm going to have my, um, sports car, my Ferrari, my mansion. But you speak, you spoke, uh, just now about going through the difficult times. Um, the, the times where you second guess yourself. You're considering quitting on the business. Um, that season of the business where a paycheck looks so appealing, but you simply go to work, work for 30 days and collect a check. Simple life. How did you overcome some of these difficulties? What did you say? That must be so nice.

Alexis: 30:10

Um, you overcome them by having a direction and knowing why you do it, right? You have your reason. Every founder has its own reason. Is it like for legacy? Is it to leave something to you, to your kids? It's like, I also talk to employees friend, right? When you're 30, it's fine to be an employee. Maybe when you're 50. Yeah. There's pretty much no way you're going to leave anything to your kids being an employee, even if you are well paid, like on top of the ladder, and you make half a million per year, and you're the king of the world, but you make half a million per year, you tend to spend half a million per year, right? And even if you don't, even if you spend 400, 000 per year, and then you save 100, 000 per year, still not going to give you, your kids much, Much a easy start, right? Yeah. So lots of people who get into entrepreneurship later in life, it's for this reason to create assets for their kids. And then there are the entrepreneurs like me. It's just where entrepreneurs, because we literally don't know how to do anything else, it's almost like, it's almost like a calling. I started my first company when I was 15. It's like, it's, it's a calling. Um, so, yeah, you, you, you know why you're doing it. And you, you, the stuff you don't do, for instance, you don't calculate your hourly salary. Because if you do that, you said, you said, Oh God, I should, I should be a housekeeper. I'd make way more money. You know what I mean? It's, it's hard. And keep in mind, I'm, I'm a bit of an old fashioned entrepreneur, right? So probably if you, if you interview kids that start entrepreneurship now, they'll have different ideas. I'm a, I'm, we are from the age of the grind, right? Like we, we are not like, Oh, we're going to go on social media and we're going to become an influencer and we're going to make millions and it's going to be easy. I don't believe entrepreneur life is easy. And I think people who believe that, and I might be wrong again, I'm an old guy, but I think that most of the kids who think that are wrong, actually, even now, it's not easy. It's hard work. Yeah.

Samuel: 32:23

Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned something, uh, and, uh, I want to pick your brain on it. You said it's a calling. Do you not believe, or do you believe that entrepreneurs can be developed? They can grow into a role of this, uh, of entrepreneurship, or do you believe it's a, it's just a calling? And you can't improve if you're not being called to it.

Alexis: 32:46

I 100 percent believe they can be taught. I 100 percent believe employee can become entrepreneurs. I think people like me who are born entrepreneurs, it's a curse. It's, it's like, honestly, if, well, I say that often, if I start a new access now with what I know now, I would have sell sold, uh, five years earlier and 50 million more, right? That's the price of my mistakes. Five years, 50 million. Uh, I kind of put a, it's a bit of a marketing gimmick, but it's, it's not far from the, from the truth. So people who like, okay, entrepreneurship is not something you can really teach or learn. There's a few techniques, but what you get when you start later, when you've been an employee for 20 years, it's like life skills. I started being an entrepreneur when I was 15. I literally knew nothing about life. And then I went to Africa and started, uh, we had 70 employee in Senegal and I was maybe 22, 23, 24. I knew nothing. Like literally I was a kid. And same when I started the IT training company, I was 31. So getting a little more life experience, but like, if I, people who start in the forties and fifties, they know so much about life that I didn't. So yeah, no, no, they definitely can be it. The skills of being an entrepreneur are not very different as the skill of being a manager or a leader somewhere. You need some leadership skills. Like people who are born with zero leadership skills, it's difficult for them, right? Like you, you, and I see that when managers confuse what's being a manager and what's being a leader, and I made the exact opposite mistake, by the way, that's one of the big understanding you need is, are you a leader or are you a manager? Uh, I was a leader and I sucked at management. I still do. I cannot manage anything to save my life. I can lead. But I cannot manage, um, because I have zero of the requirement mental structure who required to be a manager, like being able to be precise, being able to have a plan, uh, uh, uh, follow up on a plan. And like that, all that stuff, I'm, I'm, I'm really, really bad at it. So as long as somebody has. some kind of leadership skills, and you can teach some of them, but you still need a little bit of charisma and a little bit of leadership. So that's what I would look to when somebody what happens a lot. Some people come say, Do you think I should start my company? I tried to evaluate them a little bit for leadership and Charisma that it can be told, but it's hard and it's hard if you have zero of it, but most people who have zero of it, like don't really, it's not appealing for them, the entrepreneur life.

Samuel: 35:47

Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned that in your book, actually, um, made a differentiation between the leader, uh, and the manager, uh, and so saying that it really takes a leader to grow, uh, an organization, uh, but you can develop from a manager to a leader, and then you can also identify your weakness and strengths, and then supplement that by actually getting somebody that can manage that would, um, complement, um, Your ability to lead, uh, something I'm really caught from the book. Yeah.

Alexis: 36:23

So that's when, when I say five, five year, 50 million, one of the big things that I wish I learned earlier is I'm not a manager. Like if I knew that at the beginning, I would not even try to manage. I was, I was like fantastically poor at managing like, Oh, it's good. I'll do it myself. I manage the project, I manage the company and I have none of the skills. It's, it's like, I'm not a coder, right? I'm not a developer, but we started the company. There were two of us. So I was doing some of the coding. And then when we come to be like six hours, I was still doing some of the coding up until the day all the coders, uh, knocked on my office door and, They came like as, um, as a union meeting or something like that, say, we need to talk to you and say what's happening and say, okay, so we we've decided that you're not allowed to code anymore because it takes us more time to correct your bugs than it takes us to actually rewrite the code. So they say, can you please stick to what you know, which is both sell the stuff and we're going to manage coding it. But thank God that was pretty early and I was excited. Extremely offended, but like they obviously were a hundred percent right. So yeah, no, really no. If you're a leader and if you're a manager, if you're, if you're a manager, um, that get a job as a manager, you can still be a founder, but then you need a founder and, and if you're a leader and not a manager to just partner with people who can manage.

Samuel: 37:55

Yeah. Yeah. And we're going to talk very, um, Um, shortly about your, um, Apex method, methodology with a being assess assessment. We're going to talk about that in a moment, but I want to ask a question. If you were 21 years old, living in today's economy with the advancement of technology, the advancements of AI, what industries would you be targeting?

Alexis: 38:27

Very interesting. I actually asked myself that a lot. Um, Basically, you have two options, right? You can ride the wave and talk to private equity and know what give what give them a harder. Sorry, not allowed to use that. Give them an emotional lift off. Um, so that mean, Oh, I'm gonna do like, we are at the end of the communication era, right? Like we are riding the wave right now of personal branding, influencing, everything that's related to how, who am I and how do I connect with other people? So you can still do that. It's still, the wave is pretty high, although I think it's going to an end. You can hide the next wave, which is definitely AI and everything AI related. You could do, um, everything that's, uh, buzzword that you can do med tech. You can do inshore tech, FinTech is over. Like, so I don't know if somebody told you, but FinTech is over. It's been over for, four years. Um, that's one option, right? Um, you have a second option, um, which I love is to go into legacy. Like people are, how do I put that nicely? Tend to over follow trends. Oh, yeah, that's a nice way of calling them sheeps. Um, So when there is a new trend everybody in jumping on the new trend, um, and they they leave legacy Companies and legacy sectors way too early so I can guarantee you right now that the best deal you will see in terms of multiples You'll see fantastic deal in oil industry, for example, because everybody thinks it's dead and it is um It is dying, no question, but there are so many fantastic opportunities in dying sectors, right? Um, think about all the guy who made millions in like starting to do vinyl and stuff that are completely dead. So reviving legacy. Oh, there is a third option, which would be actually my favorite one is do what you're passionate about. Don't worry about the market, do what you love, do what you know how to do. That's the sector I would go in. Like if you're a tech guy going if you are, like I talked to a guy who made a fantastic company doing investment in wine because the guy was a wine lover and he said, yeah, that's, that's what I'm going to do. So do what you're passionate about. I don't drink wine. So that's a conversation, but like he's making a very, very good living. Yeah. So do what you're passionate about and don't worry too much about the markets.

Samuel: 41:21

Yeah.

Alexis: 41:22

Yeah. I can then talk to me when your company is big enough and I'll sell you whether you legacy, whether you, I'll put buzzword in. The guy will become the AI wine specialist. Like what I mean, like buzzwords can always come after the fact.

Samuel: 41:38

Fantastic. What are you passionate about? See, my original question is, if you were 21, what company would you ask? You've now said your favorite one is that for you to be passionate. What are you passionate about

Alexis: 41:51

helping people? That's something I realized late in life and goes back to, to my 14 months as a teacher, and I realized later in life, how much I enjoyed that time. It was the grind. I was trying to feed my family. I was back from Africa, had nothing, and I was happy to find a job. And I was. working 12 hours a day and it was hard and but then I realized how much I actually enjoyed the teaching. And when I, when I sold my company, I retired for two years, like literally doing nothing. And then I think like, what do I really like to do? And I, and I went back to that thing. And like, if I had the energy, I would become a school teacher. That would be my, my, my dream job. Um, but I'm too old for that. And they don't tend to give small, small kids to 50 something old guys with no experience. Um, so. Yeah, so I started this special advisor thing and starting to do a lot of pro bono stuff and like, I love helping people and that's also why I wrote the book, right? And, and I would do something and I probably will do something around Some fashion of educating, helping founders that are not in a situation to hire me on a one to one special advisor, either because the company is too small or because they're not ready to, they cannot afford me because I'm a bit expensive. So, um, so yeah, I would find a way. And I am actually finding a way to give knowledge to a larger number of people. That would be my passion.

Samuel: 43:41

Fantastic. But your passion wouldn't have come about without all of your experiences in entrepreneurship. It's almost like, it's almost as though you've gone into entrepreneurship, you've taken on all of the experiences and now you have something to pour out to other people to learn from. So it's almost like the entrepreneurial experience had to first come for you to now experience this later stage of your life where you now actually want to pour out all of those lessons learned.

Alexis: 44:17

You're singing, if I'm 21 and I have no experience, I would create a bank and I would create a bank that's specially targeted for American citizens. So in, in the finance industry, the American government are being proper assholes and leaning all towards all the banks in the world. So they do not take American customers. So that is tons of American, very honest, decent, hardworking American people outside of the U S struggle opening a bank account because the mainstream bank are scared, terrorized of the American government. Um, Well, because like being scared is, is like default behavior for bankers, right? And, and it's actually not that complicated, the, the paperwork that's, that's required. It's just processes. So I would do that if I was 21.

Samuel: 45:12

Absolutely. We've got, um, a guest on actually in a, in a few weeks time of somebody who's actually started to open up a bank here in the UK. Uh, and what we find here in the UK, especially for business owners, becoming more difficult, uh, for, I think sometime last year, a lot of banks were writing to business owners saying that we're going to close down your account in a few weeks time, a few months time, unless you're able to provide A, B, and C. Um, and it was a horrible experience for a lot of business owners here. So yeah, we're going to have some people that actually gone into the banking sector on this show in the next few weeks, actually. Uh,

Alexis: 45:51

if he's opening a bank that specialize in entrepreneurs and young entrepreneurs, first of all, he has a great avenue in front of him. And second of all, can you please put him in touch with me? I will, I will tons of clients who are struggling with banks and it's exactly as you said, it's really difficult. So we really need help in that area.

Samuel: 46:15

Absolutely. What inspired you to write the book cashing out? Like, honestly, I, I was thinking the other day that, um, the gentleman, I've forgotten his Facebook with Mark Zuckerberg. Once he received his billions, he went to Brazil, migrated, pay no taxes, and is just retired. I can only imagine that if somebody's made so much money, you would just enjoy the rest of your life.

Alexis: 46:42

It's funny, and you, it's gonna sound like, very much like new age bullshit, um, but it's actually true. I really thoroughly enjoy helping people, and like, writing a book, it's a lot of effort. It's, uh, for you guys out there who think about writing a book, it's not a moneymaking operation. It's a money in operation. Yeah. So definitely there is no economic value in writing a book, but like when I receive a message from a reader that I never met, that I don't know who said, Hey, I read your book and it helped me. That's actually pays for all of it. It's why I wrote the book.

Samuel: 47:28

Fantastic. Um, and do you want to tell us about your Apex mythology in terms of businesses, scaling a business and getting into business?

Alexis: 47:40

Well, it's basically, it's a guideline more than it's a methodology, right? It's just like the, if, if, when people start working with me, they usually like at, um. Between three and five million revenues. That's the sweet spot for people who want to start thinking. So keep in mind, my goal is to to exit them 400 million, right? So so to exit 400 million, you need to get from five 1 million EBITDA when they are to 10 million EBITDA. So they have to multiply by 10 and there's a few steps that, and I want to do that within three to five years, because I don't believe that plans over five years ever work. So basically there's a few steps. And the first one is to assess your company. It's really understanding where you are, like. Um, first of all, you'd be surprised while you maybe not won't be surprised because you are companies of, uh, CFOs, right? But the first thing is like 80 percent 90 percent of companies who are 3 to 5 million has zero view on their numbers, right? They get the numbers at the end of the year and I keep telling them. Yeah, it's like you're doing that it's like flying a plane and suddenly you receive a message from your cockpit and say oh by the way, you overshot the airport for for by a thousand miles and you have no more fuel like so The first thing I do is usually get sure they have the number right the numbers, right? Can I jump on that

Samuel: 49:09

please? What you just said is something I am so so passionate about Knowing your numbers. In fact, where we what one of the things that we're planning to do now is roll out free courses for entrepreneurs and business owners. It's not enough for the CFO, your accountant to know the numbers. You have to have some financial literacy because from those numbers, comes about the decisions you make. So from those numbers, you, you, you're well informed and it puts you in a position to make decisions with information and not guesswork. Whether it's your, the most obvious is EBITDA, your profit, your loss, or depending on your industry, we're talking even about your CAC. The cost to acquire new customers. How much are you spending? You need to reduce the amounts that you're paying to acquire new customers to become more profitable. I am so passionate about this that even now we're producing dashboards, uh, for clients. Um, that gives the real time information per second. They go into the office. This is where we are as a business, as a SAS based business, as an e commerce business. This is the footfall. This is the number of people that visit our website, improve each one of these numbers. Overall, your business will increase. Your business will become more profitable. If you can manage these numbers. I'm sorry. I just had to say that because I am so passionate about Numbers and just people being aware.

Alexis: 50:54

Samuel, you and I are going to talk after this call because literally like, and you say, Oh, not only your CFO, but you know how many companies that does 5 million revenue have a CFO zero. Yeah. At best they have a cousin who's an accountant and like, Oh, here's my CFO because he was good at with number at school. Like how many, uh, have a CFO. And actually one of the projects I put in together, um, it's something I called the virtual C suite. Because all of this company, they need a CFO, they need a COO, they need a CTO. And they cannot afford that, right? Because a CFO, even a mediocre one, will cost you a quarter million per year. And when you do five million revenue, you cannot afford to pay a quarter million per year to one single person. So I'm going to give these people access to high level people on a part time basis. Pretty much. Yeah. And the cockpit, the financial cockpit is the first thing I put in place in like 80 percent of my client, because they're exactly how you say, it's guesswork. They have no idea. And when they see something, it's way too late. Talk about cost of goods sold to people and they have no idea what you're even talking about.

Samuel: 52:05

I think as well, what this gives rise to, I'm not sure you've seen it with the companies you work for, but the rise of. Lots of fractional C suite, um, hires, fractional CFO, fractional CTO, fractional COO. They come in once or twice a month, literally just to talk. And the whole essence for us to having these dashboards. Is that they pay for these dashboards to set it up comprehensive, plug it to all of your softwares, whether it's zero, whether Shopify, but then once a month or once a week or after you want it, we'll have a CFO come in, go through your numbers with you and advise you based on those numbers. So important, really important. And just to make it so accessible, even for the business that's making only 500, 000. Let's get it over to them, let them, and as they scale, they're bringing people full time and so, Alexis, I'm so sorry. I'm just so passionate about it because these are the things, cashflow is the number one reason businesses fail. And if you don't know your numbers, you're sure to fail. You are sure to fail a hundred percent.

Alexis: 53:20

Samuel, I would go even further than that. Cashflow is the only reason company fails. As long as you have a positive cash flow, you cannot fail. And you need to know it. And that's where I bring my idea of world chest in there. It's like, yeah, you need to have cash in your account and you need to have visibility in your number. So it's usually the first part of assess your company. And then I go more into like, what's your unique selling proposal? What makes you different? A lot of people don't know. Like, Oh, I'm, uh, I'm, uh, Coach and I'm doing really well, but what do you do that other coaches don't do? Let's assess that. And then you'll be so surprised by how many people don't know if their customer are satisfied or not. And they don't know because they don't ask. It's so easy to ask your customer. The one person in the world that will always tell you how they feel is your customer. So just pick up the phone and call them, send surveys, do meetings, like talk to your clients. That's one of the thing in the assets phase that is the most important. Because you can grow as much as you want. If your clients are unhappy, you have to solve that. And it's so easy. Most of the time, it's so easy. The stuff that you, they're not happy about is probably stuff you didn't even notice so easy, et cetera, et cetera. Like what, where do you want to go as an individual? What's your end goal? What's your number to sell the company? So that's basically the first phase of assessing. And then you plan, uh, you say, okay, so I'm, I'm doing a 1 million revenue, 200, 000 EBITDA. I want to get to 10 million EBITDA. What are the plans? So how do I plan my internal growth? How do I plan my cost cutting? How do I plan my MNA? And you have all that plan. And then the next phase is to execute it. And then when you get within a year of hitting your number, That's when you start, I got in trouble with my editor for using this sentence, uh, I call it dress the bride. So like the last year before you exit is get your company ready for private equity. And there is like very simple techniques on how to, how to make your company look appealing to a private equity. And that's pure knowledge, right? It's easy. Just need to know what to do. So that's

Samuel: 55:41

the Apex methodology. Fantastic. One of the things I saw in your book about that is, um, so many people, uh, when they're going to be assessed, try to lie or try to fabricate their numbers. Um, you advised against that. This is why, um, it's so important as well that you start off early. You know, you're in from the beginning and begin to work towards that. Obviously, do you want to add to that?

Alexis: 56:12

Yes, very interesting. Um, a little segue on that. I have a client who work on a fantastic, fantastic product. Um, and it's called information genetics. So more and more in companies and in her case, it's mainly banks and in relation to the regulators, right? The regulators ask for so many numbers, the bank gives the numbers and very often the banks don't really know where the numbers come from. So it's the same thing, like what's the genetics of your information when you get to the private equity phase and the private equities ask you numbers for. Three years ago and you have the number, but you don't really remember where your numbers are coming from and what, what are these numbers. So my advice is like, when you sell to a private equity, you're going to go through a three to six months due diligence. I, I, I, Call it the six months colonoscopy. And if you lied on 1 three years ago, they will find it. They're really, really good at that. They will find it. And suddenly they'll find everything you say suspicious. Rightly so, right? You lied about your number. So never ever lie about the past and be super optimistic about the future. Like you, you can say whatever you want in a, in a three year business plan, because they will, they will either believe it or they will discount it because they'll call you bullshit, but you're allowed to buy to be optimistic in the future. You're not allowed to lie about the past.

Samuel: 57:49

Fantastic. Wow. Wow. So much knowledge. I was going to say to you, um, and I know we're going to be rounding up soon, but honestly, I have to say I've really, really enjoyed, uh, this, um, chat and this conversation. Um, you've mentioned quite a few times that, you know, that you had a family, a young family in Senegal, Um, you're going through, I'm a, uh, uh, have, I'm married with three children. What toll did it have, your early years of business, your early years of scaling? Did it have on, um, on your family, your marriage, everything else? And feel free to tell us how you felt.

Alexis: 58:30

Um, so first of all, again, I'm going to remind you, I'm a man from the past. So all the bullshit of. Work life balance. We didn't have that at our time, right? So now now when an entrepreneur asked me, how do I? Become a successful entrepreneur and maintain work life balance as I tell him going another job then like Entrepreneur you like company. Um again all all three right? Um, the way I organize myself is I would go to the office just after the kids go to school. Uh, I would come back, um, at a pretty reasonable hour, like six, uh, feed them dinner and put them to bed and then go back to the office. That's my was my way of being managed to be working 16 hours a day and still spending some time with the kids, but it is hard. There's no lying. There was lots of traveling. There was lots of time away from the family. And like you try the bullshit of, Oh, I'm doing that for you. So you can have a nice life, but the kids are not stupid. They know it's bullshit. So it's, it's, it's not easy.

Samuel: 59:49

Yes. Yes. I, I, I totally 100 percent agree with you. And, um, I think my, my, my, uh, final point as well. Um, honestly, I, I, I, anyway, I've got so much questions I could actually honestly, but I think my final point to you is, um, as a budding entrepreneur, I give a 21 year old right now, or you can look at your 21 year old self. And I want you to advise that individual on the steps to becoming a very successful entrepreneur. Also, you are a successful entrepreneur, but also advise on the mistakes. You have also learned on your journey that you would advise your 21 year old self. And just for everybody in entrepreneur, what are the things, the top five, top 10 things that they have to be aware of that you would advise in order to scale their business and then possibly exit by, um, um, selling their business.

Alexis: 1:01:00

That's it. Just an easy question to finish. Okay, in no particular order. Number one, know yourself. Know what you want and know your strengths and weaknesses. Know what you want. For example, do you want a lifestyle business or do you want a growth business? Very, very difficult, different strategies. Do you want a business that's going to make you a million per year till you retire and you'll be comfortable with that, or do you want to sell your business for a hundred million? Two different, very, very different strategy. Are you a leader? Are you a manager? What, what do you need, what do you need to complete? Like if you're a leader, uh, start working with a manager, et cetera. So that lesson one lesson to know your company, what's your unique signing proposal, what's your customer like, uh, what's your numbers. And then for me, the one most important advice is do not confuse what's urgent with what's important. So as an entrepreneur, you get bombarded with very, very urgent stuff and very quickly you end up being. swamped by urgent stuff and you forget what's important. You forget your plan. You forget your strategy. You forget your growth because you spend your life extinguishing fires. Um, next advice, have a war chest as soon as possible. Have a war chest. Um, do not overspend even in good years. Do not overspend during the good years. Like remember, remember the skinny cows are coming and acquire early, acquire well, integrate well and plan your exit very early. Give you time to know exactly what your target is and what's your, and get the proper strategy to an exit. Choose if you want a strategic exit or a private equity exit, because it's not exactly the same strategy. Top of my mind.

Samuel: 1:03:11

Wow. Wow. While I was off screen. Sorry. I had to take some notes cause I was, I, I thought those, those nuggets were, were dangerous nuggets and only something you can get from somebody that's actually lived it out. Someone that's actually gone through it and not someone that's just put in 10 steps to success because they plagiarized it from another book. So many of them out there.

Both: 1:03:40

Honestly, it's not successful. And the way to be successful is sell a book on how to be successful. That's right. A lot of people do that.

Samuel: 1:03:53

Honestly, Alexis, it's been an absolute joy spending, um, an hour with you, tapping into your wisdom. Um, and, and yeah, definitely would definitely hope to do this again with yourself. Um, yeah. Any last comments to our audience before we round up? Uh, just

Alexis: 1:04:15

like, it's hard. Yeah. But it's so much worth it. Like don't get discouraged. And the first couple of years are so hard. And like, you feel like you're going to die, but don't worry. The, the following years are going to be even harder. And one day you exit and you get your check. And you know what happens the day that people ask me, well, what did you do when you exited? What did you do when you get your check? Well, I slept for the first time in my life. Like. I came back in the office the next Monday because I was still the CEO. I was still a minority shareholder. After that, I slept. It was so fantastic.

Samuel: 1:05:02

Wow. Wow, wow, wow. In fact, you know, for companies that are scaling that haven't reached a 1 million mark, 2 million mark, 3 million mark, and they're bootstrapping their business at the moment, what would you advise them? I know you spoke in a book about the, um, various rounds of funding as well, investment from friends and family. Uh, what would you advise that individual as well?'cause there's some people I know starting a business, they're only making a hundred KA year. Uh. 200k a year and hiring another person or another two person is going to be a significant cost in relation to how much they're turning over. So how do they manage that process?

Alexis: 1:05:45

Well, first of all, if they're making 200, 000 and they cannot hire an extra person, that's been they're doing something wrong in terms of profit, right? So Increase your margins, first of all, and on a more general concept, just enjoy the grind. Just because you see on TV people raising 7 million or 9 million or whatever. Don't go for the cheap money at the beginning because it's super expensive, the cheap money. Like you give away a quarter of your company for 200, 000. Try to avoid outside financing as much as you can. And if you can't, and if you have a real reason to get outside financing, and since you need to build something and you have a cost coming, that's different, but just don't buy marketing from outside money because marketing should come from your profits. So is your module do not run for outside money and enjoy the grind. Like it's nice. It's you're creating something on your own from the ground up and yet it's hard work and yet it's slower than you thought, but you can make it make it faster. Like I'm working with a client of mine who is exactly like he's a little more. He's like half a meal. And he said, okay, we'll get you to a meal by the end of the year. By just like increasing marketing, getting better margin, finding his USP, like just get better at what you do before. If, if you like, in a way, if you need outside money, if it's for no reason other than buying marketing and accelerate your growth is you're doing something wrong.

Samuel: 1:07:17

Fantastic. And with that, We'll end the podcast once again, Alexis, thank you for all of the nuggets. Thank you for spending an hour with us today. Look forward to doing this with you again. Uh, and to all of our listeners, once more, thank you for listening to another episode of Finance for Founders. Uh, please stay tuned, uh, with us. We're having more guests, uh, to share some more insights with you. Uh, please share this as well to, uh, people, you know, uh, in the, um, on startups on the entrepreneurs and this information will be valuable. I'm not really into, uh, click like and subscribe. I'm not trying to grow a YouTube channel, but what I want is for us to have an impact on your business guys. So, um, stay tuned and we'll be back next week. Take care and enjoy yourself. Take care guys.