Ep. 91: How We Met & Why He Chose Me: An Interview with My Husband

It's Caleb's birthday today, and in this special episode, he's joining Michelle to share his unfiltered journey—what it was like being single, using dating apps, and wondering if the right woman was even out there. 

He reveals what caught his attention when he saw Michelle’s profile, why saving sex for marriage impressed him, and that moment in Michigan when he realized he wanted to commit. 

If you’ve ever doubted that godly men still exist, this conversation will remind you they do. 

Praying this episode brings you hope and clarity. Subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who needs encouragement. 

Want to connect more? DM me on Instagram or email michelle@thechristiandatingcoach.com
—I’d love to hear your story.

Transcript

Michelle Joiner (00:00)
 Hey, hey, sis. Today you're going to hear the story of how Caleb and I met
 
 Michelle Joiner (00:05)
 and why he chose me, straight from him, in his own words. It's extra special because today is Caleb's birthday.
 
 Michelle Joiner (00:15)
 And instead of me just telling you about him, I wanted you to meet him and hear our story together.
 
 We're diving into what life was like for him single and on the dating apps, whether he had a type, what went through his mind when he first saw my profile, what he thought when he learned I was saving sex for marriage, and what ultimately made him commit. So if you've ever wondered what a godly man is really looking for, or even doubted those men still exist, this conversation
 
 will encourage you from the guy's side. Grab your coffee, get cozy, let's get started.
 
 Michelle Joiner (01:02)
 Hey, hey, Caleb. Hi, sweetheart. Happy birthday. Yeah, thank you. How is this a birthday present for me?
 
 Totally a birthday present for you. You're gonna get so much love after this podcast. Are you ready to get started? Yep. All right. All right. was life like for you when you were single? You know, I had not dated a whole lot in my youth. Like,
 
 Didn't date in high school. In early college, I was pretty focused on my studies. And I forget what age. I think I was either getting close to 30 or just past 30. And I was like, I am not meeting anybody. And I started, got dating apps were becoming a thing. So I started on there.
 
 went on a lot of really bad first dates. met a couple of people that I connected with, but nothing that,  worked out in the long run. and then, I was, working, taking a class here and there.
 
 playing video games. also, you know, just definitely feeling that, you know, that loneliness, like,  you know, is there somebody out there for me? We talk about we want we want witnesses to our lives. And I definitely
 
 felt like I was not seen by anyone. Like no one really knew me or knew who I was. mean, family, yes, but...
 
 Even then, there's like a,  can say that Michelle knows me inside and out much, much better than anyone else in my life does. Yeah. one thing that came to my mind as I'm listening to you talk is you said that you want to be known. You said that you want to be seen. You also said, I'm not meeting anybody.
 
 That's what my clients say. That's what the women say that I talk to. So is it true that guys like you guys that women want to marry are just hiding out at home, taking classes, working, playing video games? Like, are they just not socializing? Like, like, know, like, where are you guys? So I'm, I'm, I'm pretty introverted, right? You know this, right?  and so
 
 I think during those time periods, outside of class or I was in a Bible study  church, I wasn't going out to any bars or clubs or any of the stereotypical  social event. We would do land parties where my high school buddies would come over and play video games together. that's not
 
 place to meet women. So basically the only way I would have found you is online. Yeah. Well, and you know, you were half a continent away, but so we had that working against us. Yeah. Okay. Well, we'll get into more how we met later, but let's stay focused on your single life. So from what I'm hearing,
 
 women should take some encouragement that they're not crazy. Like if a guy is introverted, if he has kind of more solo interests, really like you've got to maximize your presence online because that's how he plans to find his person. Yes, I mean,
 
 There is that kind of like movie hopefulness, like, you're going to have a meet cute with somebody  somewhere and bump into them in the library or a coffee shop or something. And it definitely, you know, wasn't happening. I, I way more you going to coffee shops and libraries. I mean, mean, I used to, I used to go just hang out at when, when
 
 Borders bookstore was a thing. used to just go and hang out there.
 
 am going to pull this note that guys like you do hang out in bookstores and maybe coffee bars or whatever, and they are too secretly hoping for meet cute. So, take heart. I have an assignment I give to all of my clients. Talk to two men this week.
 
 you never know, ladies. That meet cute could be something that he's looking forward to. I'll also mention, I told my sisters at the time that they were really like not doing their job because they had never tried to set me up with any of their friends or, know.
 
 And that is another thing like strategy wise, if you  meeting people of the opposite  gender that they may, even if like they're not your person, they might have a friend, right? They might meet, you know, just meeting more people expands your social network, expands your reach to increase the likelihood like, I know someone.
 
 you'd be perfect for or who would be perfect for you. Preach, preach.
 
 Let me ask you this question.
 
 It's sort of a very specific question that I've heard from a lot of women. Did you have a type you thought you'd end up with or you really want it to end up with? I will say, yeah, I did have a type. And it wasn't like anything that I had sat down and written down on paper or anything. It was just, you know,
 
 when you're on the apps and you're like, I like this person. I like this person. I like this person. and, when I'm talking type, you know, there's, there's physical type, there's mental, you know, I knew I wanted someone who was, who was intelligent, could keep up with me. you know, Michelle is an engineer. was an engineer. Like when we started, like that was like, okay.
 
 but,  yeah, in terms of physical type, yeah, I, I think I did. I wasn't married to it though, because,  and Michelle knows this when we, she, she was, didn't fit that type when, when we started talking. I mean, I still thought she was beautiful and I still thought like,  yeah, that doesn't hurt talking to somebody,
 
 But I'll say, yes, I did have a type, but like, it doesn't mean anything in the long run. Hmm. Yeah. So one of the things that women wonder is, am I his type?
 
 Am I his type? Is this going to work out for me? Is he going to brush me aside? I don't. I think that type, if we're talking about that, once you've got your foot in the door, so many other things become more important than any sort of like quote unquote type.
 
 Mm hmm. Okay, that's good to know. Can you just tell us as a guy, what was your experience like on dating apps?  not great.  and I, I had tried to, you know, the, the also I'll mention dating apps have changed a lot from when I was on the market.
 
 But my experience was, like I said, I went on a lot of really bad first dates. There was a lot of people that I was like, oh, she's beautiful. Her profile's funny. There were things that were attractive. And I would write a message that I thought was thoughtful and evocative.
 
 Nothing. Never hear back. Most of the people I would write would hear nothing back.
 
 And sometimes you'd be talking to somebody and then they just disappear, know, the whole ghosting thing. And it's literally like, what did I, you know, I don't know what I said or did. They just are gone.  I did make a few connections. I had a girlfriend for a little while that I met on the dating apps and made a couple other friendships.
 
 So it wasn't all doom and gloom and Michelle and I met, right? And that's like the ultimate payoff  in the end. there was a lot of sending out, casting Annette into the void and not getting anything for it. But I also didn't have a dating coach.
 
 You still have our original dating profiles framed in the kitchen. mean, you reading mine, you have recommendations for like, this could have been a lot improved.
 
 I saw the profile and I was attracted to it. recently got hired from a dating app as a dating expert and I'm looking at current profiles today and I'm looking at them through the eyes of my clients.
 
 And some of the profiles have very big plugs for their faith. Like they describe their faith as being the most important thing to them. They're looking for a woman of faith. And that's really present and predominant in their profiles. Also, a lot of them nowadays are starting, I'm starting to see a lot of professional photos. Like,
 
 beautiful lighting, know, really excellent, high res visuals in the profile. And it's just really impactful. And I think that any guys listening today, like, I would do those two things for sure. If you want to make your profile say now if you want if you want to decrease your time on the apps.
 
 Let's talk about what you thought.
 
 when you saw my profile,
 
 I don't remember every detail, but I was on a camping trip. And you had messaged me. And I looked and the first thing I saw was that you were in Michigan. so you were in Oregon. Yeah. And I'm in Oregon. You're in Michigan. Like I said, half a continent away, half a country away.
 
 And had tried doing distance a couple of times before, and it's really just in general frustrating and unfulfilling. so that was like,  you know, I had, when you set your range for like person you're looking for, you can set like how many miles away or whatever. And I had recently really ratcheted mine down to just.
 
 nearby. So I was thinking, OK, this isn't going to go anywhere. you didn't just have OK pictures. You had really good pictures. And your profile was smart. was smart and funny. It was definitely not the run of the mill.  I like this, I like this, I like this, like this. I'm looking for this, this, this, and this.
 
 You had a narrative in there and you mentioned a couple specific interests that like you said you like board games  which
 
 were indicative of the kind of person that you were, right? And like they were like hooks that I could latch onto and relate to and like,  okay, maybe we would have something to talk about then.
 
 and so I remember we started writing back and forth and then you ghosted me and it's like,  okay. I guess she's gone. I guess, you know, well. And then, came back like, a week or two later and,
 
 things like we just really had really good chemistry,  really lit a fire in each other. And the rest is history, I guess.
 
 And if I didn't say it before, I had the thought, well, just talking isn't going to hurt. Like, even if this doesn't go anywhere, you know, it doesn't cost anything just to have a conversation. Mm-hmm.
 
 Michelle Joiner (14:36)
 I get a lot of questions from women who a guy reaches out to them the conversation gets started, but then he stops writing back. And so my question for you is, what was it about our conversation that made you want to keep talking to me?
 
 I mean, honestly, we had so much chemistry and you were enticing and just so much. It was it was so good to talk to you, right? Like, like I would come off of each conversation feeling great about myself feeling.
 
 very masculine, like you are highly complimentary. And we didn't, especially early on, didn't have any sort of conversations that were unpleasant or made me, you know, was just green flags all the way down.
 
 Yeah, every time we talked, was sparks were just flying. Yeah. You know, one of the things that I teach is just that I want you energy like that excitement, that electricity, that when I met you, I was like, I know I have to make him feel something.
 
 Yeah, I just remember like, I think I was like 5am in the morning and I left you a voice recording about how like you just made me feel  more like a man than I ever had in my entire life. Like, like I wanted to go out into the woods and start chopping down trees or something. That was that was that was I think was one of the key marker points in our in our
 
 early communication. So I guess the takeaway is I want you energy, make them feel manly and just be exciting, be enticing. if that chemistry, if that
 
 know, electricity is not there. I seriously doubt the conversation will continue.
 
 Yeah, I also, you know, neither of us, we really played any, like we didn't play any games. Like there wasn't any of like,  try to be hard to get or,  you know,  I have to wait an hour before I texted back or six hours before I texted back. yeah, just, just, there wasn't, there wasn't any like, 
 
 You were always so happy to see me and to talk to me, you know. And that always, that felt really good.
 
 Michelle Joiner (17:27)
 Like every and all of the energy I was putting out was coming back to me. I wasn't.
 
 just paying into the relationship. I didn't feel like I was constantly chasing somebody who wasn't all that interested. I would invest, and then you would invest back.
 
 And we had a couple really long heart-to-heart talks, really, I mean, relatively early on. And one of our biggest early talks was about Myers-Briggs. We were both interested in personality typing. 
 
 And it was fun. was exciting to be able to have those intellectual conversations about ideas with someone who was as engaged with it as I was. every woman is capable.
 
 of creating that, if she learns how to show her value, show the uniqueness that is her and drops the, the busyness, like, I've got all these things going on. I can't get back to him. if she drops that, if she leans into confidence and believing in her own desirability, that would be projected. Cause
 
 when I met you I wasn't the stereotypical beautiful You know on Cameron Diaz, you know, it's all always skinny, you know blonde blue-eyed I mean I wasn't you know but I believed in my desirability and I showed my full body and my plus-size dresses and
 
 felt beautiful in those photos. And I was able because of that, I was able to communicate that.
 
 It was a distance relationship. And from the beginning, we did have to be very intentional about that. We had what, like three or four date nights scheduled every week. It was just three. It was just three. Yeah. So we would have a game night.
 
 we had a Bible study night, and then I figured out how we could like watch movies together through Google, and they would be synchronized so that we were both seeing like the same thing. And so we would do like a movie night.
 
 We'd go to restaurants together. Oh yeah, we did that a few times. did that a few times. hamburger restaurant. I go to hamburger, we'd go to... Yeah, we both picked the same type of restaurant to go to and I'm sitting there with my food and my camera in front of me doing FaceTime with you on the other end. And we visited quite a fair bit. Like every three months we would see each other. Yeah. Was it...
 
 As soon as the first three months that I went out to Michigan for the first time. Yeah, so we started talking in June, June 23rd, and then you came out in August.
 
 I will say even with that, there were definitely times, and I think you have probably talked about this before, where our relationship needs were not being met because of the distance involved. it was, like I said, dissatisfying. And you have to...
 
 know what you're getting into with that sort of thing. Yeah. And really not blame it on the other person, right? Like that's one of the things I had to learn. Like it's really not his fault that he can't be here to make chicken soup for me when I have the flu. Like he's, he's what? 3000 miles away. but in that moment, all you want is the person that you love there with you. And in fact, let's move to that question. You know, we talked,
 
 briefly about the chemistry that we created together. how I'm wondering if you can tell from your perspective, how did that chemistry come like some people say, it's either there or it isn't. I know for my part, I was doing a lot of flirting so that it would it would show up.
 
 No, was just, it was very much like being able to talk to you about things and have you engage with them and not be like you never like you weren't bored. weren't talking over me. You were listening and responding and engaging. And that was pretty huge for me. Just because I don't get a lot of that in my life.
 
 I do think that that is sort of the superpower of an ENFP to be able to engage with any topic, but it's something that any and the ENFP is my personality type, but anybody listening care about the other person, Listen here when they share with you, absorb it, realize that they just offered you a treasure.
 
 Because I feel like a lot of times I do, see this he started talking about this and I was just so bored and he went on and on and on about it. And I'm like, babe, that's your opportunity. Don't miss opportunities like that. If he starts telling you about something, he wants you to hear him. He wants you to see him.
 
 When did you want to take me off the market like I want her to be my girlfriend, I love her? Let's answer that OK, so that happened, boy, was it a month in, month and a half, where we were on a phone call and we had been up, it was like so late and.
 
 We just kept on talking, like finding excuses to keep talking. And it was time to hang up and it was time to go. And I confessed, I feel like I should say, OK, I love you, goodbye. And I told you, and I was kind of phrasing it more like a
 
 potential scenario or like, I don't know. But then you're like, well, we can say it. It's okay to say it. I think I said there are so many kinds of love because we're talking about C.S. Lewis's Four Loves. That's, yeah. Yep. That's right. And,  and so then I was like, okay, I guess we're doing that. And,  so then I said, okay, I love you.
 
 And we ended our, and you said it back to me, I think, right? And so we ended our call and it kind of like a little bit took me by surprise, like that we were already at that point, right?
 
 And so I'd like so from that point on, then we were we were in like  a relation like an official relationship. I don't remember exactly when we marked it on Facebook. But the I also say this, like from the very beginning, like your love and your faith in me was just so deep and so precious.
 
 Like, I felt like I had to protect that.
 
 my biggest fear was that I would break your heart somehow. And still is really. what made you like what made you love?
 
 I, it wasn't any one thing. was the, know, we were compatible on a lot of levels. We shared our weaknesses with each other and they weren't  like, what's the word I'm looking for? They weren't, deal breakers. Yes, exactly. They weren't deal breakers. 
 
 So that was a whole, like we've talked about being seen, like you knew me, strengths and flaws,  and I felt like you recognized my value and also, and accepted me for who I was.
 
 What do you think made us click so quickly?
 
 I think we were vulnerable with each other. That was a big thing.  But also vulnerable and accepting with each other.
 
 We had gone through similar hardships, so there was some bonding over that.
 
 and
 
 I was, we were both ready, you know, like we were,  yeah, it was, we were at a time and maturity level in our life where
 
 where we wanted this. Yeah. I think this is very interesting because the kinds of questions that we're talking about right now are very feeler questions like, how are you feeling? How did you fall in love? And you're answering like, we can just say like you're an INTP. this is a little bit outside of your will house. So you're doing really well.
 
 why don't you dive into the logic part of your brain and maybe the analytical part of your brain and
 
 What was the moment where the sentences in your head started saying, I want to commit to her? What happened where you were like, I want to commit and marry her? That specific phrase I don't ever recall going through. I do recall the first time I said, I think I could marry this girl.  And that was on our trip into Michigan.
 
 The first trip. The first trip. Yeah, the first trip after knowing me and we went into it like.
 
 I was trying to go into it with my eyes open. We were already in a committed relationship by that point. But it was still
 
 We knew each other through what we had self-confessed. You can try and be as authentic as possible when you're talking to somebody, they're still seeing what you're intentionally presenting, if that makes sense. So it was an opportunity for. 
 
 And you were especially in the spotlight because I was coming into your home, meeting your friends. So I was getting a better picture of who you were, especially.
 
 And I'm sure I think you know this. The first couple of days, there were some good things and there were some bad things where I was unsure. I was like, I don't know if this is going to go the distance. But on that third day, before I went back to the  airline home,
 
  We had gone to the local pool and it was storming out so  later on they made everyone go inside because they were worried about lightning or something.  But we were out there and just having a good time in the water, kind of laughing and giggling and I just remember holding you and thinking I could marry this girl.
 
 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Why?
 
 know. I just that was that was the moment. Yeah, it was it was just it was easy. Like the and just I felt connected to you. Yeah. I think like we if if we ask the question why is like go back and listen to the beginning of this podcast podcast, listen to the story.
 
 listen to the narrative, the love poem, you know, like the love story that was written, it was, you know, we think like, I just have to turn this lever, or say this thing, or do this thing. And that's just not the way it is. Right? It's being in the place in the right place, at the right time, in the right moment of your life.
 
 And then having enough similarities to put in your love bank together where you can like, I could see myself doing this with this person, doing that with this person. And then enough differences, like an INTP versus ENFP differences to make things a little bit charged and electric and interesting, but then enough care and compassion for each other to feel for both of you to feel safe. And then
 
 Combine that with the intelligence and the intellectual compatibility and like just all of that combined and then you combine it with like putting your arm around someone and like holding them like that's all you need. And we've talked about like our journey. There were so many things like in each of our
 
 paths leading up to the point that we, our paths crossed and then carried us forward. Like it was, it was definitely a God thing. like there was circumstances were very much a, a, tower of dominoes or something.  and, and if it hadn't played out exactly how it did, then we wouldn't be together. Yeah. It's beautiful.
 
 That's our story. Now I'm going to ask you few questions that some of our listeners are going to want to hear. So we just want your opinion on them. They've heard my opinion. What did you think when you found out I was saving sex for marriage? Oh, I thought it was great. I had been doing the same thing. It really is a mark of character.
 
 also a mark of, you know, that you had beliefs and not just giving lip service or you weren't just like a nominal Christian, that you were actually putting your faith into action.  And that was a  positive thing. Yeah. So, so many women are concerned that
 
 saving sex for marriage is going to turn guys off. then there's, know, like listening to you, you're a virgin, you are saving sex for marriage. get that, like the narrative among guys is like, if a guy is a virgin, right, like then that means he's not attractive to women, right. And, and that it's not, sometimes it's not expected that he would be or should be.
 
  and so I don't agree with that either.  the,  was being a virgin like a requirement for you? Like, what would you say to the women that are saving sex for marriage now, but aren't virgins?  it was not. So, you know, like I had dated people before who, well, one was, one was divorced and one was
 
 uh, you know, that they, had had a past and, had repented of it, but, I wasn't strict about it just so long. It was important that
 
 If they were looking for a hookup, then I wasn't interested.
 
 So you were looking to save sex for marriage, it wasn't, you believed in God's grace, you believed in God's forgiveness, and  you were more looking for a woman who was just walking in obedience, yeah? Yes, yeah. Let me ask you this question. It's kind of a different question. don't know if you've thought about it too much, or even you and I have.
 
 talked about it too much, but I'm a black woman, you're a white guy.
 
 black women have told me that they feel like men don't pursue them as much on the dating apps. I see questions like, is race a barrier here? We're an interracial couple. You have some experience with maybe the black world that you didn't before. How would you?
 
 How would you encourage a woman who feels like race is holding her back from finding love? So that is tricky.
 
 I definitely, know, Oregon is what, like 98 % white or something. I did, I had not experienced a lot of multiracial interaction, right?
 
 As far as whether race was a barrier, I think in our case, one thing is we were very similar culturally, right? Like our skin tone didn't matter so long as we were coming into the relationship with very similar cultural experiences. So I guess that was never
 
 Yeah, much of an issue for me.  I never had a like, Whoa, that's like totally different from we've had we've had a few since we've been married where I've been like, wow, that's really outside of my experience as a white American.  But I definitely wasn't being hit over the head with it.  Yeah, throughout our relationship. would you say
 
 it might be possible that race is not holding you back because people may not be really taking that into consideration as much as they think. It was for my case. Yeah.
 
 I would say, you know, it used to be on the apps that people could say what race they would match with and what race they would not match with. some people would, I remember seeing some people would match every single race except Black or African American. And so in that sense, can
 
 feel like race is an obstacle.
 
 To me, nothing is going to stop you or hold you back from the person that you're meant to be with. So those people that would put that kind of selection like, I'd be with every race except black.
 
 They're just doing you a favor and letting you know upfront and quickly they're not your person. And don't worry about the people that are not your match.
 
 it's, there's, there's also this, there's a lot of focus in the narrative about like, how big is your dating pool? Right. And honestly, having a super huge dating pool doesn't necessarily serve you because it really makes it,  there's a lot of people who are just looking for like the next, like,  there's
 
 There's so many other people out there. I don't know if this one is good enough or, you know, so I'm just not even going to or like, I see one yellow flag. I'm gone. Right.
 
 you don't need you don't need a huge dating pool, you just need one person. I mean, it's got to be the right person, but you just need the one person. Yeah. Yeah. And what I like to tell women is the next person that you meet that you're really attracted to and who's really attracted to you and that you're really compatible with.
 
 and that like you enjoy spending time with each other and you're feeling a lot of chemistry with the next person you meet with that's like that, you're gonna marry them. You don't need to meet 10 people like that, right? The next person you meet that you're compatible, attracted and have chemistry with, you will marry them. So don't worry that it hasn't happened yet. Because if it had happened,
 
 you would have married them. And I think that saves us from a lot of angst because we're like, I've never felt this way before. And the reality is that's the way it's supposed to be. Caleb, last question.
 
 Do you believe there are other godly high caliber men out there who want marriage? Yes. I am not that special. Yeah, no, they are. They might need a little work. Like you said, they don't have dating coaches, right? But they are trainable. I think Michelle has proven that.
 
 Sometimes, you know, they don't get trained necessarily, fully housebroken until the, after marriage. They, they, they, they at least have potential. So for the women that say there's no more godly men out there, I just want to meet a God fearing man with good intentions. I don't even know if they exist. What would you say to her? I would say that.
 
 God is good and he has good followers. And  I mean, yeah, like then you probably should visit more different churches because there's a lot of churches out there and a lot of single people in those churches. Well, amen. All right, ladies, wasn't that fun? Happy birthday, Caleb. I promise you.
 
 There is a cherry pie waiting for you. I hope Caleb's perspective gave you some encouragement and clarity as you write your own love story. And if you enjoyed this conversation, the best birthday gift you could give Caleb and honestly, the best way to support this podcast is just to subscribe, leave a review.
 
 Share this episode with a friend who needs help for her love story. And if you want to send a shout out to Caleb, a birthday wish or a request to come back on and talk some more and get more advice, send me a message. Maybe next year.
 
Well, thank you Caleb. And thank you, Sis, for spending this time with us today.  Just remember God writes beautiful stories and your love story is still unfolding. Let's get you married, Sis. Take care.