Take Back Your Health with Dr. Jack Wolfson

Our guest this week is Dr. Jack Wolfson, author of the book The Paleo Cardiologist. We talk about your healthcare and why most Doctors don’t know how to do anything other than prescribe more medication, and how to take back your health.

Follow up with Dr. Wolfson at freeheartbook.com 

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Transcript

Unknown: 0:08

Gib, hello and welcome to another episode of intelligence for your life. The podcast. I'm Gib Gerard. Our guest this week is Dr Jack Wolfson, author of the new book, The Paleo cardiologist. We're going to talk to you guys all about our healthcare system. Why most doctors don't talk about what we're going to talk about, and how you can take control of your own health, your own long term health, how you can own that, the things you can eat, the things you can cut out of your diet, the way that you're supposed to move and behave. We're going to talk about all of that. Very excited to bring that to you before we do that, though, a couple of quick pieces of intelligence to get you guys through your week. The cure for unhealthy cravings for alcohol, cigarettes, junk food, whatever it is, is right outside our window. According to the study out of the University of Plymouth, just being able to see greenery and nature from your home or workplace window will lead to less frequent and less intense cravings and put you in a better mindset. The study found that daily access to a garden or other green space lowered the amount and frequency of harmful cravings. But even if you can't get outside, or you don't have a garden or a yard, simply having the ability to see nature out a window, had similar results. The study is the first of its kind, and the authors say, authors say the findings highlight the need for cities and communities all over the world to invest in and protect public green spaces. The cure for unhealthy cravings, alcohol, cigarettes, junk food, whatever it may be, is right outside our window. One more quick piece of intelligence. Try this. Speaking of junk food, try this to sleep. Better. Order pizza for dinner. Take a 20 minute walk, and then you have to take the 20 minute walk after you eat it, then get ready to have a great night's sleep. University of Pennsylvania researchers say that tomato sauce on pizza is a great source of lycopene, and that compound helps us produce melatonin, the sleep regulating hormone. It also helps relax tense muscles and calms the brain's anxiety Center, which helps you fall asleep faster. And when you combine tomatoes with a little fat, like from the cheese or olive oil, it helps us absorb more lycopene. Then, after you eat your pizza, take a 20 minute walk. Not only will that help you digest the pizza, it'll also encourage your brain to produce more melatonin. Combine the two, and you now have a great way to get a better night's sleep. I'm speaking from experience. The older I get, the more I need that 20 minute walk after pizza, because at my age, one piece of pizza and I'm pretty much just, I don't think I could sleep properly for about a week. It just messes with me in a way, like 19 year old version of me, I could, I could eat an entire pizza. No problem. Fall asleep, live my life, get up, workout. No problem. Now I think about pizza that doesn't have a cauliflower crust and I'm on the floor for three days just I'm just done anyway, speaking of ways to eat healthier, speaking of ways to deal with cravings, here we go. I'm very excited to bring this to you. My interview with the paleocardiologist, Dr Jack Wolfson. Dr Jack Wolfson, the paleocardiologist. Thank you so much for your time today. We really appreciate being on the show. Oh, thanks so much pleasure to be on. And that really, do you know, share some of the most important topics about the biggest killer worldwide, which is cardiovascular disease. And I think we can tackle it, tackle it naturally. I And that's great to hear, right? You're so you're, you're a board certified cardiologist, but you, you wrote a book called The Paleo cardiologist. And there's so much, there's so much in that. But I know a lot of cardiologists really don't like, I know no paleo for you is more than just diet. It's a whole lifestyle choice, but, but so many, so many cardiologists are, you know, they say, don't eat a lot of red meat. They They recommend, you know, not putting these extra stress workouts on your on your heart. But you you are, you are firmly in the other camp. So how do you, how do you, as a cardiologist, justify the high saturated fat diet that is associated with the paleo, with being paleo? Well, you know, you talk about me, kind of, you know, and the other cardiologists, and why the other cardiologist may disagree with what I have to say. It's only because cardiologists aren't trained in nutrition and lifestyle and evidence based supplements or environmental toxins and pollutants. And you know, the average cardiologist, I mean, we're trained to to dispense pharmaceuticals and to recommend surgical procedures. So when I was with the biggest group in the state of Arizona, and after 10 years, left that group. I mean, I spent 10 years doing angiograms, pacemakers, you know, invasive cardiology, hospital based, cardiology stuff, and we never once talked about nutrition, lifestyle and all these other important things. And that's why I think that the car the average cardiologist is unskilled to talk about preventive measures. You know, listen, statin drugs are not prevention. Aspirin is not prevention. Prevention can only be done by eating, you know, the right foods and living the right lifestyle. And that's what I talk about inside my book, The Paleo cardiologist. So, okay, you bring up something that I've heard a lot of physicians that I've talked to say, right? That's that the. That your training really leaves nutrition and lifestyle. You know, as a doctor, your training really leaves nutrition and lifestyle off the table. It's real. It's about systemic functions and then system and then diseases associated with each of those symptoms. And then, like to your point, what, what pharmaceuticals and what, what chemicals can be used to regulate the the conditions of those disease Why do you think nutrition is is so lacking in in training for physicians? Well, I think really it just comes down to who controls medical education. And who controls medical education is the pharmaceutical companies. The pharmaceutical companies sponsor medical training. Support the medical schools, support the medical literature, support the government, the governing bodies like the American Heart Association, American College of Cardiology, for example, American Cancer Society, those are all funded by by pharmaceutical companies. So when that is the case, the focus in your education is not about how do we use nutrition and lifestyle to optimize health? Again, it's about what kind of you know, how do we label someone with a disease? And maybe it's maybe it's cancer, maybe it's lupus, maybe it's dementia, maybe it's gastroesophageal reflux disease. We come up with these new things, and then what's the pharmaceutical to treat it. What's the surgical approach for it? What kind of test can we do, like a CT scan or an MRI? It's really just become big business, and it's just society that suffers, and it's really unfortunate. But doctors like you know, the ones you've interviewed myself, you know, we're here to change all that, so I appreciate you again. You know, allowing me the opportunity to teach this to your listeners. Do you think that the the way that we You're welcome further. Do you think that the way that we, that we compensate doctors, being procedure based so much is a big is another problem in this process? Yeah, undoubtedly. I mean the you know, the reimbursement, you know, for doctors again, you know doctors are rewarded for seeing as many people as they can as fast as possible. So for example, in the old cardiology practice, I was seeing patients every 10 minutes. Now my new patient consultations are 90 minutes long, and even then, it sometimes feels like not enough to be able to dive into the history of a 4050, 6070, year old person to really accomplish a lot, but we do a lot in 90 minutes. It's really successful. But, you know, again, yeah, the doctors are rewarded for doing procedures, for ordering tests and and frankly, also from a pharmaceutical standpoint, listen, the pharmaceutical reps take the docs golfing, and they take them for dinners, and they give them free items. And again, it's been shown that you can buy a doctor's loyalty with just a pen. A pen can literally buy a doctor's business and it's, it's a sad state of affairs. How nice of a pen are we talking about? Yeah, not even, right? Just some, you know, it's just some throwaway garbage. But we're not talking like a Mont Blanc fountain pen, right? Which is you just as little ball click pens with the with the drug on it, just some cheap 10 cents, you know, piece of novelty. But, yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean, so the point is, really, is that, and, you know, Gib, it's like, the doctors don't even recognize that this is a problem. It's just because, you know, we're just born into it, you know, we're like, on the first day of medical school. I mean, we can't wait to learn the diseases and then learn the drugs we spent so much time in pharmacology. I may remember the first prescription that I wrote. It was like one of the happiest days of my life. And yeah, it just, it's just really highlights the overall problem. But you know, the beautiful thing is now is that people have opportunities from doctors like myself, thought leaders that you know, that are writing the books, writing the blogs, going on the internet, going on podcasts, putting this information out there, and the public is really, really realizing the benefits. So what? So you have this, this, this large, moneyed entity that is disrupting what you would, you would argue, is in the best interest of people's health. And so what are some of the ways, first of all, what are some of the things that we as individuals should be doing in order to begin to break out of that and then secondly, what hope do you have for the medical industry for being able to begin to unpack this stuff? Well, I think you know, first and foremost, I would tell anybody who's looking for, for example, for a primary care doctor, find a holistic minded, natural minded practitioner to guide them. And I think very often times Gib that the best person qualified for that really is a Doctor of Chiropractic. Doctor of Chiropractic is a DC, and DC, as my wife often says, is stands for Doctor of cause as well. So when you find a doctor of cause, whether it's a DC, an MD, a do those professions, even a good nutritionist can, again, help people talk about the things that really cause illness, such as bad food choices, such as, you know, poor sleep, lack of sunshine. Lack of physical activity and all these different environmental chemicals and pollutants you know that are out there. Let me throw one fact that you were here is that people that are in the highest levels of of pesticides in their body, so we can actually test people's pesticide levels, the people with the highest pesticides have a 300% higher risk of dying of cardiovascular causes, right? And the public doesn't know that. They're not seeing that on CNN or Fox or whatever their favorite station is. They're not hearing that. They're just hearing the message of, you may have high cholesterol. Drug wasn't there speaking of money being an issue. Wasn't there a bill that got passed recently, in the last few years? I think that was about necessary disclosures from chemical companies. But Monsanto itself, which makes the most popular pesticide in the world Roundup, was was exempted by name, from having to adhere to the bill. Do you remember this, you know, I don't, I don't remember that specifically, but, I mean, it's really, it's really not surprising. Again, the power of industry is, obviously, is essentially unlimited. Because, I mean, they just control everything. So when you say that, Oh, there's no data that says that glyphosate, the main component of Roundup, is dangerous. First of all, that's factually inaccurate, according to hundreds of studies. But then you would also say, Well, you know, who sponsors these studies that say that glyphosate is innocuous? Well, of course, it's Monsanto, right? And and their and their subsidiaries, you know, their foundations that they're, you know, they create, or these organizations that are all just umbrellas for for, you know, pharmaceutical or, or, you know, big corporations that, again, settle the, you know, sell and pedal these, these pesticides and chemicals in our environment. And it's really just suppressing the truth and, you know, and that's, again, that's where the beauty is of media like this, to be able to go directly to the people, and that's why I wrote my book with over 300 references in there, to show people, hey, this stuff is in the medical literature, just because your cardiologist says that fish oil doesn't work. Well, let me show you actually 20 studies that says it does work. You know, people say that there's no way to naturally treat atrial fibrillation? Well, I developed a seven part course on natural treatment of atrial fibrillation, with all the references in there, so you know. And Gib, let me tell you one more thing I was recently. I wrote a chapter from medical textbook on integrative cardiology by Dr Mark Houston, and I wrote chapter five in that book, and it was about nutrition and heart health, specifically paleo nutrition. I had 187 references in that one chapter alone. Wow. So you'd be Your point being that the research is there. It's just that the way that the the way that things are structured, suppresses the research, or that, you know, it's not getting into their hands of the right people. Yeah. I mean, listen, when you when you're a cardiologist and you're seeing patients every 10 minutes, you don't got time to talk about research. You don't got time to talk about health and wellness. You have a time and say, Hey, Gib, great to see you. How you feeling. Your test results came back. Cholesterol is a little bit high. Here's your Lipitor by Right, right, right? Is that? Say that's all you. So, okay, so you say, find a holistic naturopathic doctor. Where do you start to do that? Where? What's any you said, I know that. You said, find a find a chiropractic doctor. But you also mentioned ODS and MDs in there as well. So what, what are what we do? Are there resources for people to wherever they are? Yeah, I mean, I mean, there are some, I think you know, really is that you know, you know, social media can be helpful in the sense that if you reach out to kind of like your Facebook community, you know, maybe where you live, you should be able to find someone. I think if you Google, you know holistic MD near me, or, you know, functional chiropractor near me, you're able to find these this information pretty quickly. The next thing you want to do is call up the office of that doctor and ask to speak to the doctor. Hey, you know, my name is My name is Jack, and I'm interested in in holistic approaches, or natural approaches to hypertension. Is this something your doctor can help with? You know? Or I heard that chiropractic is great for blood pressure, or, you know, you know, cardiovascular issues, atrial fibrillation, you know, is, you know, can speak to the doctor, you know, regarding this. You know, the cheapest thing is a consult. Go interview somebody, if you like them, stick with them if you don't move on. Yeah. So what sort of factors? I mean, I guess we've touched on a couple of them. But are there any additional specific factors that you should be looking for when you when you actually do that consult Well, I think you know, once again, you got to be, you know, with a person that you are. You know you feel, feel a congruence with, you know that you resonate with. And you know, fundamentally, do you like that person or not? I mean, you can go see a heart surgeon. If you don't like that heart surgeon, you should not. Get treatment from that heart surgeon. I think you have to have compatibility, you know, with, with, with every person in your life. Otherwise they shouldn't be in your life if you're incompatible. So, you know, I mean, once again, you know, just kind of like being prepared to kind of ask those questions, you know, how do you think that chiropractic will help my atrial fibrillation? Is there any food or supplements or lifestyle, you know, changes that you think can help my blood pressure and ask those same questions of the functional medicine doctor. But I think in general, by definition, those people are uniquely designed to be able to and uniquely trained to be able to help you naturally. Yeah, yeah. I just, you know, it feels so hopeless, right? We was, we talked about moneyed interests and in the training, in the in the research, and in the legislation, and so basically, every major touch point is is obfuscated by people whose interests are not necessarily in our best interest. Their interests are in selling widgets, and the widgets just happen to be things that lower the symptoms of disease without dealing with the cause of disease, right? So, how do we do we have a hope as a society. I mean, I hear you're saying, as an individual, you can find the doctors that are that make sense. And I understand that. You know, I know you're big on organic food and an a paleo lifestyle being, you know, a lot of outdoor time, a lot of exercise. But are we just as a society? Are we just year over year, gonna get worse and worse? Now, I definitely think, I definitely think there's hope and and, but it's really coming from the ground, you know, from the grassroots roots. It's not going to come from the top. It's not going to come from the top. These corporations are not all of a sudden going to stop, you know, dispensing pharmaceuticals. They have their, you know, their their business agenda, their mission, of course, if your corporation, who's in pharmaceuticals, to sell more pharmaceuticals, it's really just coming from the company, from the public, in the groundswell. You know, kids that are, that are, you know, 1825, years old right now, a lot of them, they don't want to be sick, like their parents and like their grandparents. They don't want to be swallowing, yeah, you know, tons of pills. They want to talk about health and wellness and the environment, and they want to talk about natural remedies. But, you know, this is not the 1970s where you go into your doctor and it's like, you know, my way or the highway. You know, take an aspirin and call me in the morning. I mean, people again, they're coming in armed with the information, and they're asking, Hey, I don't want to take this cholesterol drug. What's, what's your alternative plan? You know? What about this? What about this? What about this? And again, if they're not happy with the answers, they're gonna move on and find someone that understands their point of view. So again, I think it's the information age, and there's a lot of great information out there. And you know, Gib, when people talk about like these mommy bloggers, and they laugh about mommy bloggers or Dr Google. Well, mommy bloggers and Dr Google takes you to the original medical literature so you can find out all this stuff about how important sunshine is for cancer prevention. I mean, again, you know, you're diving into the medical literature, and everybody's able to do it. It's really, it's, it's a, it's a level playing field that, but it's going to have to come from a grassroots effort. But I think it's, it's only right, it is only, you know, our destiny to as a race, to be able to achieve this. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we just, we don't have yet as humanity, we kind of, we need to begin to take our health into our own hands. And in the ways that you're talking about, let's actually dive into some of the stuff that we could be doing. You are a big fan, you know, we've, we've touched on it. It's in your it's your book title. But what are these sort of paleo lifestyle choices that we can all start to make today that'll, that'll help improve our health? Well, I kind of like, and I love the example of the movie cast away with the actor, Tom Hanks, and he's in the movie, and he plays, you know, a guy who was in a plane crash. And great movie, and it's really a great lesson for, you know, for children as well, to watch that movie. So, you know, he winds up as the sole survivor of a plane crash. He's on that island, and on the island, he lives the island lifestyle, right? He doesn't have a choice. So on there, he goes to sleep with the sun down or right after the sundown, as humans have done for millions of years. He awakes before the sunrise, he walks, and then he spends the day in and out of the sun, and all he's doing is wearing a loin cloth. So with that message, we embrace the power of sleep. We embrace the power of the sun. We appreciate that all life is outdoors, in the darkness and in the light, and it is only the human that sits inside and then, on the island, heats coconuts, you know, fish and vegetables and, you know, kind of, you know, we love and as a family, I've got me and my wife and my three children and fourth one on the way, we love watching some of these, like Survivor shows. Like, yeah, alone, we're really into alone lately, alone. I'm Naked and Afraid, right? Gib, I mean, like, what are these people eating on those shows? They're they're hunter gatherers. On those shows, they're eating, they're eating insects. They're eating, they're eating any kind of plant matter they can find. They're eating, they're eating, of course, trying to obtain seafood. That's the grand prize, any kind of animal they can hunt down or trap. You know, they'll eat the. Those they're not eating wheat bread, they're not having oatmeal, you know, they're not having cereal, you know, for breakfast, they're not having pasta. They're not they don't have any dairy products, you know, they don't have any sugar and that. And so really, you know, it kind of, you know, it's the same example too. It's like, you know, you don't have to teach a lion what to eat, or an antelope, you know what to eat, or a giraffe what to eat. Why? Why is only the humans that argue about what to eat? Why is there? Why are there? You know us, News and World Report. Why do they rank the top 43 diets? I mean, there's only one diet, and it's hunter gatherer. And the more we achieve that, the better our health is going to be. So you're looking for organic meats, organic vegetables that are that are unprocessed, nuts and seeds, does that fall into that? Yeah, I would say nuts and seeds fall into it. Probably not by the bulk handful that most people are used to obtaining it, right? If you want to nut and seed, you know, back in the day, you had to, kind of, you know, go a little effort, but everything took a lot more effort, right? You know how plentiful food is today. But no, I mean, just like you said, Yeah, you know this is not Dr Jack Wolfson saying, go to Burger King. Have a Double Whopper. Hold on, right? It is always about the best of the best, free range, grass fed meats, wild seafood and nuts, seeds, avocados, coconuts, olives, vegetables, seasonal fruit. Everything's got to be organic. And if you take one message out of this entire conversation, Gib, for the listeners, it's, it's go organic, because the pesticides kill pests and they kill us. Yeah, I mean, and we, I've seen so much research on that, right? Where are so many, so many documentaries where they talk about how, even if, even if the studies show that that the pesticide in one dose is not, is not, is not necessarily dangerous or does not have long term health consequences. The amount of pesticides that we get cumulatively in our diet is so significant that it becomes, well, I mean, it just, it can be even just like anything like you can have a small dose of arsenic and you'll be fine. You have enough arsenic, and it kills you. It's the same thing with these pesticides. And it's also, yeah, and it's to the individual person too, you know, I mean, again, you know, I mean, some people can tolerate more, you know, chemicals than others. But again, the the studies are sponsored by industry. And you know, if you, if you're a university, again, you get a lot of funding from outside sources. You know. You get it from industry as they sponsor. You know what you're doing. So if you're trying to come up with research that that shows that glyphosate is dangerous, I mean, you may as well just quit your job, because you're going to get fired. You're not going to get funding, right? There lies a major problem with studies in general, but there is so much information from independent researchers that shows that that all these things we're talking about, whether it's air pollution, environmental pollutant, mold, mycotoxins, heavy metal toxicity, and then the toxins from food and real quickly, you know, you did touch on like the nut and seed story, and nut and seeds also contain anti nutrients called phytates and lectins, and that is why a lot of people, including myself and my wife, recommend sprouting the nuts and seeds. So what you do is that, yeah, you soak them over, you know, you take a bowl of organic almonds, raw almonds, you put water, you know, into into that bowl along with the almonds, put in the refrigerator, let it sit overnight, and then discard the water. And then from there, you can dehydrate them. You can eat the nuts as they are. You can add them to a blender with water and make nut milk. But that's probably the best way to consume the nuts for a lot of people. Yeah, so you touched on something there too. That was that it's interesting, like, so, you know, Dr Gundry, yes, he's big on the, I forget the name of the chemical, but you just said it, it's the, it's, it's in, it's the lectin, you know, it talks about, I mean, but again, you know, I mean, us natural doctors have been talking about lectins, you know, you know, for the longest time. When I first met my wife, who's all holistic and natural as a physician, you know, back in late 2004 that's one of the thing. The thing, you know, first thing she told me about was about lectins and what a problem they were. So the research on that actually goes back a long time. It actually goes back 1000s of years, because cultures have known that they're better off sprouting what you know, whether it's the grains, the nuts and seeds in order to make them more digestible. You know, personally, I think that Gundry is recommendations. I think that a lot of them become very cumbersome, and I think they spill outside of what is our ancestral diet. I mean, for me, it's just real simple eat the ancestral foods that would have been available if you want your best outcomes. And you know, so, so what makes common sense? Again, we've got 187 references proving it is the truth. Yeah, well, I mean, that's, that's okay. So the book is the paleocardiologist. The the website where, where you can get that book as well as a bunch of others. What's the, what's the website for people to follow up with you? You know, we want to get people this information as easy as possible. And the website is free heart book.com. So just come to free heart book. Dot com, you pay shipping and handling, and otherwise, I mean, the book is, is half the price you're gonna find it on Amazon. It's an Amazon Best Seller, hundreds of reviews, you know, you know, probably 100,000 plus copies, you know, distributed already worldwide. And, you know, again, I want to be able to, you know, you know, I quit the main, you know, the mainstream cardiology, job security, you know, and all that stuff, because I wanted to do the right thing. I wanted to change the world from a natural heart health standpoint. And again, just getting out that information is absolutely critical. The book is a great gift, of course, for anybody, instead of buying them a sweater for the holidays or or a box of chocolate or alcohol, or, you know, the old time, you know carton of cigarettes. I mean, give people the gift of health and wellness. Who's still buying people cartons of cigarettes? I'm sure some people are still doing it, dude, I guarantee you, right. Those, those companies are still in business. I think those of us that you know that do shop at holistic places, we kind of forget what it's like to frequent gas stations and convenience stores where, again, yeah, they distribute those products like candy. Yeah, that's true. That's true. I just get it. Oh, okay, happy. Merry Christmas, son. Here's your palm. All for one last question, Dr Wilson and I ask it to everybody, what is one thing we can all start doing today that will make our lives a whole lot better? Wow. I mean, obviously that list is infinitely long, but let me just say this, turn off your Wi Fi at night. Turn off your Wi Fi at night. Maybe one thing that's simple enough to do. I mean, again, I can go on about electromagnetic fields and all of the electricity around us and how damaging it is. But if there's one simple step, just go to your Wi Fi, press, you know, bank on the router and turn off your Wi Fi. That way you don't get the Wi Fi exposure. Remember, the heart, and the entire body is electrical, but certainly the heart, we measure, the EKG, that is the electricity of the heart. Wi Fi and all the tech we surround ourselves damages our hearts. So do you have to unplug all of my Wi Fi nodes? So I have a mesh system, you know, listen, I mean, I don't have a complicated system. I think there are other people that you know maybe can get more into that. Because, again, like I know, you know, security systems and all that stuff you know are dependent on Wi Fi. So let me just say, you know, the more we unplug, and certainly while we're sleeping, the better. So most people sleep right next to their cell phone. Yeah, the cell phone is on. The Wi Fi is on. The amount of electromagnetic radiation that phone emits is absolutely catastrophic. And again, it's a scenario. Usually people that study it are in this right? I saw a study recently where they normalized all of the data on cell phone energy and and and the damaging radiation when it comes to cells. And if you normalize the data for the for the cell phone companies paying for the studies, the research overwhelmingly shows that your cell phone irradiates you to a dangerous level. Yeah, I mean, so basically, what you're talking about is that when you look at industry sponsored research versus independent research, the vast majority of the time when it's industry sponsored, its favors industry. The vast majority of the time when it's independent research, it actually goes against industry. So it's all driven by the almighty dollar. That's crazy. Well, that is a that is a sobering way to end this, but I appreciate your time today. Dr Wolfson, and I'd love to talk to you in the future anytime, Gib, thank you so much. That's it for our show today. Thank you guys so much for listening. If you like the show, please rate, comment and subscribe on Apple podcast, stitch or Spotify, Google Play, wherever you get your podcast, it helps us out a lot. We really appreciate it. There's somebody in your life that you think needs to hear this. In your life you think needs to hear this. Don't be afraid to share it with them. There's a little Share button on every podcast app that you can use to share this with a friend. It helps us out also, a lot. So we just really appreciate, appreciate you guys. Don't be afraid to check out facebook.com/john, Tesh, where we spend most of our time. We go live there all the time. Lots of fun stuff there that you can check out. Also, John is on Twitter, at John Tesh. On Instagram, at John Tesh, underscore, if, well, I am Gib Gerard. You can find me at facebook.com/gib, Gerard, at Gib Gerard. And Instagram and Twitter links to all of our social in the show notes, I try to respond to every message, every DM, every mention of the show, because I do this show for you guys. In fact, some of the some of the authors that you guys have suggested I've had on the show, so my point being, I do it for you, and you guys help make this show better. So thank you so much for listening. You.