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Remembering John: Finding Meaning in Terminal Illness
A heartfelt tribute unfolds as David Sage rebroadcasts his powerful interview with his stepfather, John Azzolina, who recently passed away after battling terminal cancer. This deeply moving conversation captures the raw authenticity of someone facing mortality with remarkable courage and wisdom.
John takes us through his unexpected journey from a routine doctor's appointment to a terminal liver cancer diagnosis that changed everything. With remarkable candor, he shares the physical challenges – from high-risk surgery to remove a tumor growing toward his heart, to the rollercoaster of treatments that followed. But the true power of this episode lies in John's emotional and spiritual evolution throughout his illness.
What begins as a cancer story transforms into a profound meditation on what truly matters in life. John reflects on his transformation: "I don't think I was a bad person before my diagnosis... but I think I'm a better person now than I was before." His vulnerability shines through as he questions why it took such a profound situation to become his best self.
The conversation offers rare insights into the psychology of terminal illness – from initial denial and anger to eventual acceptance and peace. John describes how his perspective shifted dramatically: "All that matters is the relationships that we build with the people that we care about. It's not the money, it's not the cars... None of it matters anymore."
For those supporting loved ones with serious illness, John provides invaluable perspective on the well-intentioned but sometimes frustrating ways people change their behavior toward those who are ill. His insights help bridge the gap between caring for someone and empowering them.
This episode serves as both a loving memorial and a wake-up call. John's parting wisdom challenges us all to examine our priorities before crisis forces us to see what truly matters. As David notes, we're being given the gift of perspective without having to face our own mortality – an opportunity to put first things first without waiting for a devastating diagnosis to show us the way.
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Welcome to the Sage Solutions Podcast, where we talk about all things personal growth, personal development and becoming your best self. My name is David Sage and I am a self-worth and confidence coach with Sage Coaching Solutions. For those of you who have followed the Sage Solutions podcast for a while, you may remember our episodes that we split into a part one and a part two, where we interviewed my stepfather, john Ezelina, talking about his battle with cancer about his battle with cancer. Unfortunately, yesterday around noon, john passed away. I wasn't entirely sure whether I was going to have an episode this week and I kind of tossed back and forth on what to do and how to do it, but I did make a commitment to do this and help people. So today's episode is a special tribute episode to John. What follows is a rebroadcasting of my interview with John, but instead of doing it in two parts, in this version you can hear it all in one go, just as we originally recorded it. I know there are many people listening to this podcast that knew John personally and I hope that this episode can help you in your mourning process. I would also highly suggest going back and listening to the episode that I did with my wife Hannah on grief. So, without further ado, enjoy this interview.
Speaker 1:Today we have a very special episode, an episode that I've been waiting to do for a while with a very special person. This is possibly the most powerful episode of the Sage Solutions podcast that we will ever record, at least for me, and I just want to give a little bit of a warning that we're going to be talking about some sensitive topics and for anyone that is going through, or has had a close loved one go through, a cancer diagnosis, this might be a little bit of a triggering episode. So if you don't feel like you're in a place to listen to this episode right now, that's totally okay Before we get into it. Our goal with this podcast is to share free, helpful tools with you and anyone you know who is looking to improve their life. So take action, subscribe and share this podcast with them.
Speaker 1:Today's guest is somebody that I love and care about deeply, and he is someone that has been a major part of my life for about 15 years now.
Speaker 1:While he isn't technically my stepfather, I've considered him that for a long time now.
Speaker 1:I've been lucky enough to have a bonus parent in my life, one that has taught me so many things about the world and how to become a man. In fact, I would not be the person that I am today without the lessons that he has taught me and without the major influence that he's had on my life. He's always had a little bit of a tough guy, italian bravado, but, to be fair, he always had the muscle to back it up. He is a combination of one of the strongest individuals I've ever met, fiercely loyal and protective of the people he loves, while also being one of the softest and most caring people anyone could meet. He's that guy that's there for you in the middle of the night, and not just for his family, but for his friends too. I learned so many lessons about how to have a good relationship by watching the relationship that you and my mom have, and I truly don't believe that my marriage would be what it is today if it weren't for you. So, everyone, please welcome my stepfather, john Azalena.
Speaker 2:Good afternoon, david. Thank you for having me on today. I appreciate everything. I've been following your podcast from the beginning and you've been doing an amazing job. I also want to acknowledge the fact that this is going to be difficult for me, as well as everyone else my loved ones that are listening, you, the audience. It's going to be very difficult for me because I feel I'm the most vulnerable I've ever been in my life. I was scared in the beginning to even come on. I'm doing this, hopefully, to help anyone else in their situation, whether it be the person being diagnosed with terminal cancer or their loved ones. If I can help one person, then my job is done.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you for that, John. So we've already alluded to it, but why don't we take a step back and why don't you walk them through your diagnosis and your situation and a little bit, or at least the broad strokes of the journey that you've been on we can get into the deeper parts of it in a bit just so that people have the context of what you're going through right now.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to take you back to 2024, everything leading up to my diagnosis. I'm 50 years old at the time. I changed doctors so they wanted to establish some kind of baseline. They ran blood work At that particular time. They said my liver enzymes were slightly elevated. I had asked should I be concerned? They said no, it's very normal. So a few weeks went by. I hadn't heard anything. My better half, which is David's mom, she had asked you know, have you gotten the results? I said no. She are you sure? I said no, I haven't. I'd let you know. A few more weeks go by, they wanted to get an ultrasound on me. The original doctor appointment was June 6th.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And then we proceeded on with an ultrasound. They came back, said they saw some fatty tissue. Should I be concerned? They said, said no, I said okay. So we continued on.
Speaker 2:A few weeks went by and they wanted to get a CAT scan. That's when it became real and the doctor made me aware of the situation. He didn't know exactly at that time and I conveyed that to David's mom, laura. We weren't sure of what it was going to be or what the situation was. A few weeks go by and the doctor calls me and he wants me to get a complete CAT scan of my whole abdomen area. And this is August 7th. He goes I need you to do that right away. So I scheduled that for the next morning.
Speaker 2:August 8th Went in, got a CAT scan of everything. He put a stat on it which means he wants the results ASAP. He calls me about noon. I ask him can I put you on hold and bring in my better half? He goes that would probably be a good idea. So I bring in Laura on the call.
Speaker 2:It's a three-way call between me, the doctor and Laura, and he alludes to the C-word. Everyone hates to hear it. C-word's cancer. And he alludes to the C word. Everyone hates to hear it. C word's cancer. He tells me. Pack a bag. You've got to go to the emergency room right now. I said what he goes. You need to go now. So we go to the emergency room. They determine that they have a better facility through Aurora at St Luke's. So they put me in an ambulance and take me to St Luke's Now. Mind you, throughout this whole time all these doctors, appointments and everything, I feel normal. I don't have any pain anywhere. Everything's from my perspective. I'm fine, right, I you know. And even while I'm going there, I'm like do they even have the right person? Are they looking at the right charts? I feel fine.
Speaker 1:Right, I'm sure this whole thing, especially feeling fine and having it escalate and escalate, was a bit of a mindfuck for you.
Speaker 2:I've been using that phrase, david, for God knows how long. Even right now I'm not in pain. It's a mindfuck. Yes, it has been. If I was in pain, it would make it real. I'm lucky I'm not. I thank the Lord and the fact that I'm not so I've been lucky that way. Going back to the timeline, I was diagnosed August 8th of 2024 with terminal liver cancer. My initial reaction obviously it was the defense mechanism. I'm cracking jokes trying to make light of the situation. My brother was not happy with me. He's like this isn't a joke. I'm like I know. This is the only way I know how to, right now, cope with everything. How to right now, cope with everything.
Speaker 1:And right around this time slightly before in the timeline, when they first found out and there were a bit more unknowns going on I was babysitting our niece and nephew with my wife, hannah, and about a week maybe two weeks before this phone call, I had been giving my mom a hard time because, for those of you who remember the episode that we had with my mom, laura Sage, on mindfulness, she is a pretty incredible person. In addition to being really really adept at mindfulness, she is a rock. She is the type of person who everyone leans on. She's kind of the epitome of a mindful stoic who uses which strategy is best for the time, and her and I are similar in that way. I was poking fun at her kind of telling her hey, you're always there for everyone, but if you ever need someone to talk to, you can always lean on me. You can always lean on me.
Speaker 1:And so I got a call from my mom and her voice was wavering and I said hey, how's it going? What's up? And she said you know how. You said if I needed to talk, you were there for me. I said yeah, of course. What do you need?
Speaker 1:And then I just heard her voice break and she said John has terminal cancer. And then I heard her cry and I kind of froze up a bit and I said, okay, tell me what you know. And she said there are a lot of unknowns. Right now I'm paraphrasing just a tiny bit because I don't remember the exact wording, but she told me that there was terminal cancer in the liver and possible cancer in the colon, possible cancer in the lungs, possible cancer in the pancreas and a tumor going up the blood vessel from the liver towards the heart, as well as cirrhosis of the liver.
Speaker 1:I didn't know how to respond. I was in a state of shock, but I, you know, talked to her, asked her whatever she needed. She just told me how much it hurt and she said he's my person. I said I know, I know I love him too. And from that point we spent a lot of time going to the hospital visiting with John. I got this phone call when they were sending him to the emergency room and I'm going to let John pick back up in the story. But I just wanted to stress that, especially right at that beginning, there was a heck of a lot going on all at the same time and a lot of unknowns.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to pick back up here August 8th, when I'm sitting in the hospital I'm listening to several different doctors come in and out and give their expert opinions on what's going on. I heard several different are you having troubles breathing? Are you in pain? None of those applied to me. The biggest one are you having troubles breathing?
Speaker 2:Everyone kept asking that and the biggest reason they were asking that, as David had alluded to, they found a tumor that was growing in my vein, from my liver to my heart. The doctor pretty much said he didn't know how I was even standing there, the situation it was always real, if that makes sense, but that particular day everything got more real. He was shocked I was even alive. So then I had a decision to make. Obviously, as we've discussed here, my situation's terminal. They gave me possibly two years. At this point my goal is I'm going to try and just prove everyone wrong. Whether that be two years and one day I got a little fight in me left. The biggest obstacle I had to go through was if I was going to allow them to cut me open and remove the tumor in the vein. That was the most life-threatening situation. I was scared. I was very scared. I didn't want to die in the hospital.
Speaker 1:Given the situation and the specifics with his liver, it was a high-risk surgery.
Speaker 2:Yeah, david's being very generous, One of the doctors that was on the surgery team. Him and I were in the room after everyone had left that evening and I had asked him I go, do you have kids? He said yeah, I go, would you do it? He didn't answer me. A few minutes went by and then I acknowledged I go, I appreciate the answer. He goes. I didn't say anything. I go. Your lack of answering me I go gave me the answer I needed. This was no joke. When the doctor described the surgery he was going to do, I literally asked him I go, have you done this before? Because it sounds crazy. And he goes yeah, I go. You seem a little arrogant. He goes. No, I'm confident. I wanted to hear that out of my surgeon. I'm not going to lie. Yeah, he did a great job. I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 2:I spent five weeks in that hospital going through my own things that occurred after the surgery. I had 1.75 liters of fluid that built up around my heart. They removed that. My heart got to one night almost 200. They shocked me in order to get everything back. If that didn't work, they were running out of options. And if that didn't work, they were running out of options. So at the end I was getting for lack of better terms. I had to get out of there. I couldn't do it anymore, and if that meant me leaving and God forbid not being around, I had to. I couldn't take much more being in the hospital the way the situation was.
Speaker 1:I just didn't want to die there per se so no, being in the hospital for a very extended period of time like that was. We all saw how hard it was on your mental health and I haven't been in that situation so I can only imagine. But it's not exactly a fun scenery. It's not exactly a there's not much to do and you're laid up in a bed and, honestly, we were all just praying for you to be able to come home. I also want to stress that it really was a roller coaster while he was in the hospital.
Speaker 1:Every time we would get good news, like there isn't cancer in the colon you know, obviously an upside and then there would be bad news, like you have at max, six months to live if you don't do this surgery. And then there would be good news, like there's actually no cancer in the pancreas. And then there would be bad news, like there is cancer in the lungs. Like there is cancer in the lungs. Needless to say, this is something that it was obviously tough on all of us who love you and were around. I know it was really tough on your mom and your brother and my mom and my sister and I and Hannah, who's grown really close to you throughout the time that we've been dating and now married. I wanted you to do what you wanted to do when it came to the surgery, but obviously there was a part of me that wanted you to do the surgery so that we could just have more time with you.
Speaker 2:So I probably should know the date that I was released from the hospital. But to be honest with you, I don't. I was so overjoyed to be getting out. I couldn't get out of there fast enough from that perspective.
Speaker 1:Somebody else can do the math. You gave the date that you went to the hospital hospital and you said it was like five weeks.
Speaker 2:Correct, correct At that point. Once I was released there's still been a little rollercoaster of a ride to this day being released everything was okay. So once I was released, it was just overwhelming the fact that I was out of the hospital. I'm thankful. Once I was back home, david's wife, my daughter-in-law she's an amazing person, woman chef she said what do you want? Can I make you something? I have the best chocolate chip pancakes you can ever imagine.
Speaker 1:I almost forgot about that.
Speaker 2:Those pancakes. But anything she puts together, she puts together with love and it's always amazing. It was nice to be home. Part of the reason I brought up the chocolate chip pancakes is, and part of the reason I brought up the chocolate chip pancakes is when I entered the hospital I weighed 223. I thought for the most part I wore well.
Speaker 1:I'd agree.
Speaker 2:I wasn't obese, I had a frame of muscles, whatnot. And then when I was released from the hospital, I got released at 179. So you do the math there, that's 44 pounds I lost in the hospital. It wasn't just the weight that I lost, it was the strength, some of the other things that you don't notice on a regular basis, but in my particular situation you do. You go in and out of the shower, things that you don't notice on a regular basis, but in my particular situation you do. You go in and out of the shower and you're like, oh my God, I used to have arms, I used to have shoulders. I don't anymore.
Speaker 2:I've gained weight and some strength back and I'm thankful for that. I'm still still. Every day is. It has its own challenges, sometimes fatigue, depending on what's going on, but for the most part, as I said, this ain't my last dance yet. I'm going to fight and do it to the best of my ability, with the best I can, and just go from there. It's been amazing being home. I'm probably the most fortunate individual that you know, and it's hard for people to say what do you mean. I am blessed, beyond any words can say, with the family and the friends that I have. I wouldn't be here without them, without David, without his mom, his sister, his wife, my mom, my brother, and I can't tell him how much I love him enough. Thank you.
Speaker 1:We're just happy to have you, John. So what was the next step in your cancer treatment? So what?
Speaker 2:was the next step in your cancer treatment. After I was released from the hospital, they did immune therapy. It's a form of I don't want to say chemo, because there's two different things. The immune therapy I didn't know anything about it, so what I'm telling you now is what I've learned. It essentially is in a form of the chemo, but the reactions differently. They said I wouldn't survive chemo. Probably.
Speaker 1:Immune therapy takes your own white blood cells and hopefully tries to attack the cancer wherever it may be, it's chemo in the form that it's a drug, essentially that's given, or the way that they're doing it, but it's almost more like a hacking of your immune system to get it to target the cancer.
Speaker 2:I would agree with that. The form that it, how it's given, is same as chemo and, as David alluded to, it's yeah, for the lack of better terms. It's hacking your own body to hopefully fight it. First three months went well. They saw some positive things. Unfortunately, that did not continue. After the first three months months they wanted to continue and they did, and they based that upon the scans that I was given. Everything looked to be improving, so they went another three rounds. After the six months they did another scan. Immediately I got a call from the doctor. Obviously, when I got a call from the doctor, obviously when you get a call from the doctor immediately after your scan, you can assume it's probably not great. Yeah. So they said they were going to stop the immune therapy. It wasn't taken anymore. I don't know if my body became immune to it.
Speaker 1:Everybody's body acts differently, well, and cancer is known to adapt. So that is some of the risk in what has made cancer such a hard fight is its pure adaptability.
Speaker 2:Obviously, neither one of us have a medical degree, but yeah, in broad terms. Right exactly what David said. So at that point it was a difficult phone call. They put me on cancer pills. I take those daily. They can up the ante Right now. They're waiting to see how my body reacts to it and they'll do a scan. At the same time of that phone call they made me aware that the tumor in the vein was coming back a little bit.
Speaker 1:The one from your liver to your heart.
Speaker 2:Correct. The doctor said he got 95% of it out, but he said he couldn't get that last five. So now the question was is there a way? Can we do anything to treatment? And when I say treatment, mind you everyone, it's not going to cure me. This is terminal. I know that. I deal with this every day. So they decided, in order to hopefully prolong my life and prove these people wrong, they're going to do radiation and they've done it. Radiation has its own ups and downs. That's where we currently are. I'm done with my radiation treatment. I may need more, but that will be based upon my oncology team and going from there.
Speaker 1:So you haven't seen the results of your radiation treatment yet, correct? I mean, besides, like physically how you feel.
Speaker 2:Correct. They said the radiation. It takes a little while to take effect. So no, we had asked that, your mother and I in our last doctor visit. The positive thing that I can take from the last doctor visit is they run blood work every time I go in. My blood work has been improved, it's continued to improve, so that gives me some hope. As I tell everyone, and even the nurses that particular day they kind of just chuckle now because I'm probably the healthiest terminal patient you guys will ever talk to or meet or listen to.
Speaker 1:It's kind of the running joke that I have to make for everyone else and myself yeah, I'm the healthiest one you're gonna find one thing I do want to point out is that your treatment had some extra complications due to the fact that you had separate liver and lung cancer, which are both pretty aggressive cancers and are treated in somewhat different ways.
Speaker 1:So it makes it harder than if you're just trying to treat one cancer. And the cirrhosis of the liver also definitely restricts what treatments can be done, because your liver in its current state between the cancer and the cirrhosis can only handle so much. So on the one hand, you're probably one of the luckier cancer patients in the fact that you feel fine, but on the other hand, you have had an unfortunate situation of being more limited in the approaches that they can take. So I'm actually going to shift gears a little bit here. I want to make it clear that your life and your value isn't defined solely by having had cancer. So I want to get into a little bit of context and background around your life before the cancer. If you'd be willing to share a little bit about your upbringing and, um, just some of the things that you've dealt with throughout life I think for the most part I had a very normal childhood.
Speaker 2:I was lucky to have two loving parents in the picture. All the time we were raised raised in a blue-collar environment my dad worked his butt off. There was always food on the table, nothing crazy. We always had what we needed.
Speaker 1:And correct me if I'm wrong, but your parents, vince and Maria, were first-generation immigrants from Italy, right?
Speaker 2:Correct. My dad came over here when he was, I think, seven years old. My mom came over here when she was 20. At the time when she came over, she married my dad in Italy. So they came over here for a better life, to provide for themselves and, obviously, their family, shortly after my mom came over. Like I said, she came over here when she was 20. Age of 21, she had me. We lived downtown in, probably not in a great neighborhood. At that point my dad bought a house in a better neighborhood. He didn't want to raise his growing family down in that area. I was born in 74. My brother was born in 78. My sister was born in 80. My sister died in 82. She was born with a brain tumor. Before passing away, she had several different surgeries.
Speaker 1:So you were 7 or 8 at the time that she passed.
Speaker 2:I was 8.
Speaker 1:8. So do you have memories of that time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have very clear memories.
Speaker 1:I'm sure that couldn't have been easy for you.
Speaker 2:No one of the biggest things that I take away, and maybe, in a stubborn asshole that I am, they didn't want me to go to the funeral slash burial, neither me or my brother. To be honest with you, I forgot. If my brother went, I threw such a tantrum that it was best suited that they just let me go.
Speaker 1:So you always had some fight in you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you could say that Absolutely, so I, you could say that Absolutely, so I went to the funeral. That was difficult in itself, just being in that situation, eight years old, watching everyone grieve.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm sure it was especially tough on your parents.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that threw my mom in a tailspin. Since then she's a strong woman in how she's handling the situation of her oldest son now, but at the time it wasn't easy and I think looking back on that situation made her who she is today and how she's dealing with it, with me having cancer, terminal cancer. With me having cancer terminal cancer.
Speaker 1:Well, oftentimes some of our biggest struggles, while we wouldn't wish them on anyone, become our biggest areas for growth. Like you're saying, as horrible as it is for someone to go through something like that, in a way she's a little more prepared for or as prepared as she can be, I guess is the best way to say it for, the situation that you guys are in now.
Speaker 2:I would agree, David, 100% with what you said. Yeah, you don't wish any of this on anyone, but she is as best prepared for the situation as any mother can be.
Speaker 1:So after the loss of your sister, growing up you participated in a series of different sports. You were an athlete, right.
Speaker 2:That is correct, david. Football, basketball, football, basketball and track. And when I say track, I say that uh, very loosely. Um, I did track to stay in shape for football.
Speaker 1:Football was my passion, uh is what I excelled in do you feel that participating in those sports growing up taught you any lessons for either life or for drive, or even in a form of fight, that you think have served you either in your life or for your current situation?
Speaker 2:I do feel as though participating in some of those sports prepared me for life, not just the current situation that I'm in and let me explain what I mean by that. I think playing football, basketball, those are the most team-oriented sports, and in order to succeed in those and win at a high level, everyone has to be on the same page. You can accomplish more as a team than you can individually, and that holds true to this day, probably more than ever. I couldn't accomplish what I'm accomplishing right now, even being here on this podcast talking to you guys, if it wasn't for the team that I have and my team. I can't even tell you how big of a team I have. It's almost like a small village, whether it be David, hannah, his wife Hannah, his sister, laura, his mom, my mom, my uncle, my everyone. I'm lucky to have a group of friends going back as far as freshman year in high school. There's about 17 of us.
Speaker 1:And I believe a couple of them were almost like back from elementary or something right.
Speaker 2:Correct, damian and Pat. They go back as far as kindergarten and some of them most of them are from freshman year on and we all just got together for dinner. Most of us went up north together. Without that support team and that team, I wouldn't be here talking to you guys. I'm thankful and appreciate each and every one of them, thank you.
Speaker 1:In fact, you just got back from a weekend up north with that same friend group, right?
Speaker 2:Most of them. There was a few.
Speaker 1:Or who could make it.
Speaker 2:Correct, there were 17 of us in four different cabins. It was a great time just spending time with the guys getting back to somewhat of a normalcy. It was very enjoyable.
Speaker 1:So I will say you are incredibly lucky to have such a long-standing friend group of so many close individuals to this day. Moving past high school, what was the next step in your life?
Speaker 2:After high school, I thought the next logical step was college. For some people it is, for some people it isn't. I'm one of the people that it probably wasn't, and there's nothing wrong with that. I met a lot of good people that I still communicate and talk to from college and, unfortunately, from the standpoint of academics, there was some things that lacked.
Speaker 1:Some things to be desired.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those were all on me. But I went home after a bit, brushed off the dust and I ended up finding a career path. So I went home and told my parents that I was going to go back to school. I just needed to save some money because at the time I was paying for everything. That didn't happen. I ended up getting a job in communications. At the time for my age and what I was making, I couldn't beat it. I was making some good coin. So I never went back to school.
Speaker 1:When you did a bunch of the cabling for, like GE Healthcare and actually I remember specifically at the hospital Aurora St Luke's that we were at, you were pointing out because you guys had done a bunch of the cabling there. So that was one small little glimmer of interesting stuff going on at the hospital when there wasn't.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Aurora is one of our biggest accounts. At the time when everything got diagnosed, I worked for a company called CCNN Cable Communications and Network. I can't say enough positive things about them and how they've treated me throughout this whole situation. They've always had my back and helped in numerous ways that I don't want to get into at the particular time, but they've been nothing but gracious, accommodating. The company has been in operations, I think, for 31 years. I don't think this is the first time they've ever faced an employee having terminal cancer. Now they've handled it. Kudos to them, Thank you.
Speaker 1:So, if you haven't figured it out, my parents are divorced because obviously otherwise I wouldn't have a stepfather. But I'd like to shift gears a little and skip forward a bit into would you be willing to share the story of how you and my mother met, or how you met my mother, sure, david?
Speaker 1:I'll gladly share uh the story and this is the first time that we've ever heard this story. In fact, my sister, my mom, Hannah, and I Will. We've never heard this story before, so it'll be new for all of us, Not like we've heard it a thousand times or could tell it by heart.
Speaker 2:So at the time when we had met, I had established a second job bartending. This one particular evening, his mom, laura, I better have came strolling into the bar with her girlfriends and obviously there was a spark there. I knew there was a spark on my end.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure about her end, but nothing obviously occurred that night she was there with someone else. This was the beginning of the beginning, I guess, because I started frequently seeing her come in with her girlfriends and at a particular time I don't think either one of us were in a place to be involved in a relationship. I don't know how long this went on. I know I'm exaggerating, but I continue to tell everyone I'll tell you what.
Speaker 1:I know how long this went on, because I've heard this once or twice I'm pretty sure it went on for five years.
Speaker 2:I kept forgetting rejected there. There was times where neither one of us were with anyone and I still got rejected you were persistent though, yes, I.
Speaker 1:There was a lot of fight in you, you weren't giving up.
Speaker 2:No, no, it was a long, challenging situation, but well worth it. I wouldn't have it any other way. It's built a strong relationship for us. Obviously, we're not married. If you guys haven't figured that out, we've been together 15 years. This past March. Neither one of us needs that piece of paper. I should probably marry Laura. The only reason it never happened was I was in some bad relationships prior to meeting Laura. She got the brunt of the worst, I guess for lack of better terms. When we met, I told her I'm like I'm not getting married. Um, I remember her response ever. I said yeah, I go. If you want to change me, I didn't say that I go, okay.
Speaker 1:So what changed that sparked the shift from the five-year pursuit from the you know, delving through the trenches that you were dodging? No's left and right.
Speaker 2:David, I love you. I can't believe you're bringing this up. My opinion is I shaved my head. I think some people are attracted to bald guys. I shaved my head and, granted, I was in decent shape at the time. I was going to the gym four to five times a week. That didn't hurt. But there was one particular instance. I went to meet a friend at a bar and this bar is actually at the time right where Laura lived near. That's not why I was going there, but she walked in. I was so mad at her. She walked in oh you're looking good. Starts rubbing my head. I'm like are you kidding me? So I called my buddy. I'm like listen, we got to go somewhere else. There's no one here. He's like what do you mean? I go, let's just go somewhere else. So I left. I was so agitated with her at that particular moment, but we obviously got past that. So it's my belief it was the bald head.
Speaker 1:I mean, it couldn't have been anything else, right? I don't think so. Someday maybe we'll hear her side of the story on this podcast, but right now you have the floor.
Speaker 2:Well, I appreciate it. Hopefully I can hear her side of it at one point.
Speaker 1:And then for context what year did you and my mom get together?
Speaker 2:Laura and I got together March 25th 2010. Uh, so we've been together now 15 years.
Speaker 1:So you've been a big part of my life for 15 years now, or 14. I think she waited a chunk to introduce you, but, um, I'm just grateful for all of that time.
Speaker 2:Thank you, david. I appreciate you saying that, and you and your sister have been a huge part of my life and even my growing. You guys have taught me so much and showed me so much love.
Speaker 1:Thank you and showed me so much love. Thank you. So, john, before your current cancer diagnosis, there was another major event that happened in your life surrounding your father. Would you mind touching on what happened and how that affected you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, january 5th of 2016, my father passed away. He went in for a surgery. He had cancer. At the time, we thought everything was good, but they saw a spot that they wanted to address and they wanted to determine if it was cancerous or not. The determination was never made. He never left the hospital.
Speaker 2:From my understanding, obviously, I was not the individual that was making the decisions. That was my mom and, from what my mom portrayed, my dad didn't want to be on machines. My mom portrayed what he had didn't want to be on machines, but, looking back at the situation, he was on machines. My mom had asked at one point and I had said hey, listen, you know, I know you said but he's on machines, Mom, he's being kept alive by this breathing machine. I go, whether you want to believe it or not, and I understand her situation. It was the person that she had been with for 40 plus years and that she loved, and I understood that. Finally, we came to a decision that they were going to pull the plug on the machines, and that was January 5th of 2016. At that particular moment, I decided, hey, there's no way I'm going. I'm going to be on machines. There's no way I'm going to be in a hospital this way, the other, I guess, situation that affected me dramatically was the doctor had to come over and ask and wanted to know if we wanted to know if that, what they removed, was cancerous or not.
Speaker 2:Ultimately, it was my mom's decision. I told her I did not want to know, for the simple fact that I wasn't going to bring my dad back. My mom chose not to find out if it was or not. I mean, if it was, people have said well, you know it may have been an inclination of your current situation. No, I don't think so. Not one bit. I think the situations were different in so many ways.
Speaker 2:But that particular time was a difficult time for me. It was a difficult time for my family, my mom, my brother. I didn't realize until recently how much it really affected my brother, which I understand, yeah, affected my brother, which I understand. Yeah, I was fortunate enough at the time to have your mother in my life. She was an amazing support system for me. Without her, I think I would have gone down a darker road than I did. I'm not saying I didn't go down a dark road. For about a good month I indulged Maybe indulge is the wrong word. I hit the bottle pretty hard. I wasn't going to sleep, I was passing out. Finally, your mother gave me a kick in the ass. She's like you know, I understand what you're going through, but this is going to stop right, because I'm not going to. I go, yeah, and that's the kick in the ass that I needed, and you know, I got out of that, thank God. I mean, and I couldn't have done it without your mom.
Speaker 1:I remember that time frame and I remember how it had a pretty profound impact on you. I know you ended up getting a tattoo in memoriam of your father and I always really liked Vince. He was just a good guy, he was really nice. I really enjoyed his company. I also know that you and Hannah bonded over an unfortunate but shared trauma of having both lost your fathers and I know that you have been an incredibly helpful presence for her in that healing and grieving process. Is there?
Speaker 2:anything you'd like to say on that? No, I'd be happy to Please bear with me on this.
Speaker 2:Take your time. Hannah means a great deal to me. You found an amazing young lady and, yeah, you're right, we did bond because of hardship or pain and it sucks the thing that right now for me, how I feel is without Hannah. She's done so much in my situation here and helping me through it and I feel really bad because I feel and I've told her this that I'm making her relive that pain that she had when she lost her dad. I never meant to do that. I never wanted to put that on her or anyone else. As I said, it's hard enough going through it once but then trying to deal with it again is almost twice as hard. But, as I said, I love her. I'm in a lot better state of mind than I was a few months ago and part of that is because of Hannah and everything that she's done on her days off. She takes the time to come over and spend some time with me, talk with me.
Speaker 2:We listened to audiobooks together. One of the most profound, inspiring audiobooks I've ever read was Tuesdays with Maury. She wanted to share that with me. Her dad had read that and I'm so thankful that she shared that with me. I recommend that book to anyone. Whether you're going through what I'm going through or not, maury is my hero in everything that he dealt with and how he handled the situation. If I handle my situation with a little bit of grace and dignity, as he did, I will be a better person for it. He handled himself with nothing but grace and I hope I can do half that.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we'll touch on your mindset and how you've been processing and handling your current situation in just a bit. But I do want to explicitly state here and I'm not speaking for her, I'm saying this because Hannah and I have had numerous conversations about this and I've actually been with you when she said this to you you aren't doing this to her. She's grateful for the opportunity to use her experience to help somebody who's in a time of need and she doesn't regret getting close to you and building a relationship with you because you've helped her so much, and she's just grateful for the time that she's had with you. We both are and, yes, there will be pain, but grief is also an expression of love, but grief is also an expression of love. You don't feel grief if you didn't love someone. It's a horrible, painful expression of love, but it's still love.
Speaker 1:So, john, as you were living through all of these different ups and downs, the roller coaster of this battle with cancer, I think it's really important that we touch on some of the non-cancer events that happened all around the same time. We kind of hit a point where you, me, hannah, anna, my mom we would just look at each other, shake our heads and, with a sad chuckle, just say when it rains, it pours, because each new thing that kept happening really poured it on. I'd like you to touch on the events that happened surrounding Avi or Avalon, your cat, avi or Avalon, your cat, and Fowler, your dog, and how the unfortunate timing made this whole situation that much harder.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Avi and Fowler are our pets. Avi's our little cat Fowler we adopted during the pandemic. Our little cat Fowler, we adopted during the pandemic. While I was in the hospital, laura kept me updated with the situation with the animals and how they were dealing with everything, and obviously they missed me. Taking it a step further, about a year prior to my diagnosis maybe even longer, I'm not exactly sure Fowler started losing weight. He was diagnosed with kidney disease. They gave him maybe a year and he went about a year. It was tough but he kept his spirits high. I was hoping I would be released soon enough where I could at least say goodbye. Unfortunately that did not happen, so Laura had to put him down when I was in the hospital. That was difficult on all of us. I know it was particularly difficult on your mom. She bonded with Fowler and Fowler obviously bonded with your mom. The cat had more of a bond with me.
Speaker 1:She definitely, definitely struggled with it. I was. I actually stayed in the room with her when they put him down and both of us were struggling with how frustrating it must have been that you weren't able to be there.
Speaker 2:It was extremely frustrating. It's frustrating not being there saying my last goodbyes to him, but a lot of the frustration came from the fact that I felt helpless. I wasn't able to be there for your mom. She was there for me and still is. She was there for the animals and everyone, but the one time that she needed me, I was unable to be there for her.
Speaker 1:And obviously it was out of your control. You know that wasn't something that you had a choice in and we all know that if there was any way you could have been there, you would have one. I guess bright side is that after you were released from the hospital, Abby, your guy's adorable little cat, was glued to you at the hip.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I was fortunate enough to have a little time with her before she passed. They think maybe it was leukemia.
Speaker 1:And about how long after you got released was this?
Speaker 2:Probably a month and a half, we had to put Abby down. November 4th, your mom adopted, laura, adopted Abby, and it was her cat. For the most part, she was always your mom's cat, but 2019, we had to put my chocolate lab down and I would describe Abby's relationship with my chocolate lab as the brother and sister that loved each other in a brotherly sister kind of way. The relationship Abby had with father was kind of way the relationship Abby had with Fowler was oh no, this is my domain, you just are lucky to be here.
Speaker 1:It's very true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when JD died I think we were both grieving and she clung to me and we developed quite the strong bond. I never thought I was going to be a cat person.
Speaker 2:I really never was, but she became my little girl. I miss her. I miss all our animals. We had amazing animals and I was fortunate enough to have them in my life and I know that the time I had with her after the hospital was amazing, for me at least. She clung to me. I was home more often so she just hunkered down on my lap as long as she could, and that was it. I mean I think we still struggle to this day. As long as she could, and that was it. I mean I think we still struggle to this day. Your mom had brought up once adopting again, but I don't know if we're in the situation and everything that we're dealing with where that would be a good idea. There's times that I've contemplated that and thought about bringing it up to her, but then I think about it and that would just be another thing on everyone's plate that I don't know if we can deal with right now which is totally understandable.
Speaker 1:I'd like to dive into your, to dive into your experiences, your mindset, what led you to this point and maybe any lessons that you might have surrounding this, and we can start wherever you'd like.
Speaker 2:Thank you, david. Three months ago I wouldn't be able to be sitting here being on this podcast. I was not in the mental state that I needed to be or wanted to be. My friends and everyone that knows me and knows me well knew I was masked and everything I would say, oh, I'm fine. But I wasn't. I had some built-up anger, frustration, quite a bit of anger, to be honest with you, not that. Oh, why did this happen to me? I had to do some looking at myself in the mirror and, yeah, it sucks that I developed terminal liver cancer, but some of it's on me.
Speaker 2:For part of my adult life well, most of my adult life I smoked, I drank. I never thought I drank much. During the pandemic pandemic I had one cocktail an evening. Why, I don't know, can't figure that out. But my mindset was not where it needed to be. It was not just affecting me on a daily basis, it was affecting the most important people in my life Laura, david, hannah, anna, my mom, my brother, my uncle. They saw what I was going through, especially Laura, because she's with me all the time. She put on that strong face and oh, it's okay, because some of my frustration would be not directed towards her, but she was in the vicinity of it. I also didn't want cancer to define me, meaning oh, he was a great guy and he got cancer and he became an asshole. It's not the way I wanted to be portrayed by my loved ones and everyone else that knew me ones and everyone else that knew me Well.
Speaker 1:And John, I do want to say this your life changed and your future surrounding your life changed quite a bit, and I'm really happy that you're in the headspace that you're in now. Really, I wanted nothing more than that. But I also don't fault you for where you were at and I don't think you should fault yourself for that either. You know you were dealing with stages of grief. Whether they were in the preset order that they talk about, we don't need to get into the specifics of that. But frankly, so many areas of your life and your future were changing simultaneously that it's totally understandable that your brain, your body, your spirit would need to take time to process that in different ways, to grieve what you are losing and to find a way forward.
Speaker 1:It's very rare for somebody to go through a grieving process without anger. It's basically an essential step. It's a part of the process that you can't really skip. It's just about when it happens. So I'm not telling you how to live your life or anything. I just do think that you deserve grace for going through the steps in the way that you needed to.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate you saying that, david, but looking back, it was more than that. It was affecting everyone else you, your mom, my depression made them I mean, I know how much you guys care about me and it was affecting them on a daily basis and I didn't want that and also I didn't want cancer to for lack of better terms define me. I'm trying not to let my remaining time be controlled by this disease.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:And I'm not saying it doesn't affect me because it does. And I'm not saying it doesn't affect me because it does, but I don't want it to affect me in the most negative ways because I saw what it was doing firsthand to your mom. My depression made her depressed. She is one of the strongest people and woman I've ever met and I couldn't be going through this without her. I didn't want my situation to make her depressed.
Speaker 1:I think it's very insightful of you to have reflected so heavily on how your situation was also affecting the people that you love, but I also don't think it was your intention to hurt anyone with it. I think what you're going through is something I can't even fathom. I can try and empathize to the best of my ability and to some degree I'm going through it because of my feelings towards you and how much I love you, but I'm not saying that just to make you feel better. I honestly never really faulted you for being in the headspace that you were in, because accepting something like that a terminal cancer diagnosis out of nowhere and all of the changes that come with that is something that very few people listening to this truly understand the weight of, if any. And I genuinely think that the intention matters too.
Speaker 1:I don't believe that at any point it was your intention to hurt anyone around you. I just think you had really big feelings, emotions surrounding it and unfortunately it was causing some collateral damage. And I think once you became fully aware of that collateral damage, you made a decision and since you've made that decision, you've stuck with it and for that, being able to have the mindset that you have now in the situation that you're in is something that I'm both incredibly impressed with and very proud of. So I want you to know that I'm proud of you and I love you, and we're going to get through this together. And I brought you on here because I know that you have a lot of value to provide to the people listening to this.
Speaker 2:So I do appreciate you saying that, david. I needed to get out of that mindset because I was grieving inside and since then I'm in a better place. And how I got there? It wasn't easy. I contribute my mindset change to a few factors.
Speaker 2:One Hannah on her days off she takes the time to come over and listen to that, tuesdays with Maury audiobook with me, spending time with me. David, when he's available, coming with Hannah and listening to this podcast. And then David's sister, hannah. One day she had asked me to go to church with her. I know along the road I lost my way in faith and your sisters brought that back into my life and it's helped. It may not be for everyone, but it's really helped me to come to peace with everything.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to sit here and dive into the whole religion thing or whatnot. In this particular church where I go, it works for me. It's been good for me. I've gone every Sunday now for over two months. The support system that I have Laura, my family, my friends keep me grounded. I have a small village behind me and I'm fortunate that way. I have a small village behind me and I'm fortunate that way If it wasn't for the small village Hannah, david and everyone I wouldn't be sitting here on this podcast talking to you guys.
Speaker 2:It's really transformed on how I conduct my daily life and how I look at things. I mean, I'm not going to be able to change my situation, my health. I can only make the best of what is dealt. Nowadays. I enjoy the little things waking up in the morning Okay, I got another day Spending time with all my loved ones, my family, my friends, so I just enjoy the little things and try to go as far as I can.
Speaker 2:I think the worst thing that the doctors did is put a timeline on my life, because now I'm out to prove them wrong and I'm going to do everything I can. It's not just to prove them wrong, it's also for me. I want a little more time with everyone. I've been fortunate enough to enjoy life and everything that goes along with it. I do want to simply touch on one thing. I'm not here to preach to anyone, but don't get caught up on the material things in this world the house, the cars, the money, whatnot Can't take it with you. Enjoy the things that truly matter, the people that we engage with. Those are what really matters, because now, god in the house, the car, whatever, doesn't mean anything to me. I just want more time with these people. I'm going to leave it at that. Thank you for everything.
Speaker 1:Wow, there was just a lot of value there. There was so much wisdom and practical experience from the situation that you're in. It sounds like you've come to a place of simultaneous acceptance and at least some level of peace, especially compared to where your mindset was before. And this simultaneous drive like a fight. You know where you're accepting the reality of your situation, making the most of the time that you have, but not just laying down and letting it happen Like there's still a fight in you, because not only do you want to make the most of the time that you have, but you want to make the most time to have it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've come to accept everything for what it is. I mean when you're dying, you have to accept the situation for what it is. I mean when you're dying, you have to accept the situation for what it is, because if you don't, honestly it's going to eat you alive. I've encountered way too many people right now who have cancer. Your attitude is going to go a long way. If you try to portray positive attitude, it's going to work in your favor. From a physical standpoint, the cancer is always going to be there. There's certain things that we can do to minimize that.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, my situation is a lot more difficult from the outside. As I said earlier, I'm the healthiest dying person you guys will probably ever hear or encounter. Yeah, I've accepted everything for what it is and, like I said, some of that acceptance I had to do from a standpoint of I had to look in the mirror and take some responsibility for the situation. Would things be different if maybe I would have gone to the doctor more? Maybe Part of the reason I say that is David couldn't attest. They said that the tumors have probably been in me for about five years, so could things have been different? Possibly, do your daily checkups everyone. Maybe I would be in a different situation.
Speaker 1:I want to double click on this because you and I have had some conversations surrounding this and I know. Earlier you said I don't want to preach. But frankly, john, it's my opinion, at least on this podcast, that you're in a special position to preach. I don't necessarily mean religion we do tend to keep this podcast a religious and apolitical but, um, any lessons or things that you've learned or things that based on your experience, uh, you want to stress to people, feel free to do it here.
Speaker 2:The one thing I do want to say I've heard it from other people who are in situations similar and they're dying, or the old man sitting in the hospital and he doesn't have much time left my advice is take care of your health while you can.
Speaker 2:I know it's a broad statement, but everyone always says that, even in the movies you hear oh, you know should have taken better care of myself, and I do wish I would have. From the outside, I looked like your healthiest individual that you have ever met, but I didn't realize until last year how bad the situation was, whether that be the smoking, the drinking, the more exercise, your checkups with your regular doctor. I recommend doing it all, not for me, not for yourself, but for the people around you that care about you, because they're invested in this as well as you are, if not more, sometimes. So I'm going to end this here to tell everyone do what's best for yourself and your health, because at the end of the day, as I stated earlier, the money will come and go, the house will come and go. You can't take that with you. The only thing that matters to me. Anymore is the time that I have with everyone, and if you want more time, I suggest taking care of yourself.
Speaker 1:No, it's good advice and it's from a perspective that most people don't think about. I haven't really thought about the aspect of taking care of your health as something that's a kindness to your loved ones. It's actually a really unique perspective and I'm going to have to do more thinking about and reflecting on that. I also want to go a little deeper on this difference in mindset shift. I think you covered it pretty well, but I think there's two different conclusions that people can come to.
Speaker 1:As a dying person and honestly, that's oversimplifying it, I'm, you know, I'm not being shades of gray enough here, but to some degree there's two common ones that emerge. One of them is I'm going to die, so what's the point? And the other is I'm going to die, so every second is precious. And, logically speaking, depending on your mindset, depending on your thinking, they both make some sense, but one of them seems like a much better option, in my opinion, like a much more fulfilling option, whereas the first one doesn't really help you, it doesn't really accomplish much. It's a very nihilistic way of looking at it. Just because you're dying, it doesn't mean that nothing matters, you know.
Speaker 2:In regards to the first aspect that you said about dying, oh, I'm going to die. Let me tell you that's the way I felt and, to be honest with you, I think that it's. They're masking their true feelings. They're scared, as I think most people are. I would catch myself saying, oh, it doesn't matter, you know, we're all going to die you know, once the doctors and medical professionals put a timeline on your life, it becomes real.
Speaker 2:It becomes real real quick. Believe me, that changes your mindset real quick. Because I was that person and part of that was, I think I was scared, but I also I wanted to portray this larger than life persona about, okay, you know nothing's going to hurt me or whatever. You know nothing's going to stop me. And for the most part, I think I portrayed that persona quite well.
Speaker 1:I would agree.
Speaker 2:But it was wrong. I mean, deep down inside, looking back now, I was scared. I think we all are, whether we want to admit it or not. That's two different things. Now you can ask me anything. I'm not going to lie In the situation I'm in. There's no reason for me to mask any of my true feelings about any situation or any topic. So if you want whatever real answer, come and talk to me. I'll give you. I'll give it to you straight, believe me.
Speaker 1:That's one thing that I really admire about you even before, but I think especially now you are willing to give it to people straight. But especially now you're willing to say things even if they're uncomfortable to say, to be vulnerable, to be real with people, and I think in a way that's kind of a superpower that you've gained from this whole experience. From this whole experience. I'm not trying to be, you know, this blind optimist in what I'm about to say. I wouldn't wish going through what you're going through on anyone, but that doesn't mean that no good can come from it. And through some of the conversations that we've had, you've alluded to the fact that you actually feel like, with this new mindset, you're an even better version of yourself than you were before.
Speaker 1:And I think there's been a little bit of a theme throughout this podcast of talking about how, while pain is real and objective and hard, it's also unescapable. We're all going to have pain in our life at different points in our life from different things in our life, and we can't just avoid all pain because A it's impossible and, b working through the pain can cause some of our most significant growth as human beings. Would you be willing to talk about some of the growth that you feel you've had from going through such a painful yet unique experience.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I didn't know we were going to go here, but it's fine. This is going to be a little difficult for me, so I don't think I was a bad person before my diagnosis.
Speaker 1:I'm going to stop right there for a second and say I wholeheartedly don't think you were a bad person. No-transcript.
Speaker 2:Thank you for all that, david. I appreciate it. As I was saying, I don't think I was a bad person. In my growth here, in my mindset change, in how I'm dealing with everything, I think I'm a better person now than I was before. As David alluded to, I'm more in touch with my feelings, not just with myself, but with everyone else around me. I tell everyone that I love them Obviously the ones that I do love, not the ones that but I'm more in the moment with everything that's going on in my life.
Speaker 2:The thing that I do struggle with right now and I haven't been able to answer this question, I'm still grappling and dealing with it in my own head is why did it take such a profound situation for me to become who I am now? I don't have the answer to that right now. I'm hoping to find out not for you guys, for myself why it took so long. I've been trying to answer this question for several weeks now. I do a lot of this thinking when I'm on my own, which is best. I need to figure this out on my own.
Speaker 1:I think that's a very powerful question to be asking yourself. I'm just going to restress, don't be too hard on yourself with it but I think it's a very self-aware, powerful question to be asking and to be trying to find the answer to, and I think you're the only person that can truly find that answer. I know something that's been hard for you journey is how the shift in people's behavior naturally tends to happen when you become a terminal cancer patient, and I think there's a lesson here for anybody who is in the life of someone who is going through cancer, or for anyone who is going through cancer. I think having an awareness of this would be a helpful thing.
Speaker 1:You've talked about how people's behavior towards you has changed and to some degree that's inevitable because the situation has changed, but because people don't actually know what you're going through, because people can only assume what it's like or they have a different experience with someone with cancer who maybe was in a lot more pain or, whatever the situation may be, was in a lot more pain, or whatever the situation may be. The way that you're treated is different Almost sometimes by some individuals it can be like fragile and frankly, in my eyes you're not fragile, but I think it's easy for somebody to over-index on caretaking, on being careful with you. Would you be willing to talk a little bit about what that experience is like, knowing that people have the best intentions with this, but I think it would be helpful to bring some awareness to what it's actually like to experience that, so that people can approach it from a better place.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Now, mind you, I'm self-sufficient. I can drive, I can do pretty much everything. I have limitations and I know those, and I don't exceed those. But in my head, cancer every day slowly takes something away from you your physical strength, your fatigue. At some point I'm sure it's going to take the ability for me to be as self-sufficient as I am, whether that be driving or doing whatever, and I'm aware of that. What's difficult from my perspective and I know everyone has their best intentions your mother. We had a chat. This went on for a few weeks after I got out of the hospital. It wasn't just your mother, it was my mother, everyone, my uncle, my brother.
Speaker 1:I mean hell. I know I've been guilty of it too.
Speaker 2:Everyone treats you differently, Then oh, you shouldn't be lifting that. I take walks with Laura around the neighborhood. Can you do another one?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm fine and I understand their concern and it's their intentions are good intentions, but it's hard because I went from being so self-sufficient to being not as self-sufficient.
Speaker 1:I would say that you went from not just being self-sufficient, but I think you were also like the person that many people leaned on. You know you were sufficient enough for yourself and for many others, so I think the swing was even bigger for you I would agree with that.
Speaker 2:Um, and you're right about that, I didn't. I wasn't going to I don't know, for lack of better terms toot my own horn, or whatever.
Speaker 1:Well, that's okay, I'll toot it.
Speaker 2:But yeah, you're right. I mean, there was other individuals that I don't want to say counted on me, but came to me when they needed it. So I was more than happy to accommodate and try to help out in any way I could. Now, if you guys know David's mom I love her. When I had this conversation she took a little time to digest everything. Two days went by and she was getting up to go to work and get ready and I was up. She handed me a list. I was like what's this? There was five items on there. She's like you don't want to be treated different. She goes get these done today. I go okay, I'm like that's what I needed to hear.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you were probably happy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. So that was a shift and change that she's gotten better. There's times that she falls back, but for the most part she tries not to treat me any differently. It's harder for other people. Some people still treat me differently and I pointed out to them and they don't acknowledge that and they're like oh, we love you, that's why we're treating you different.
Speaker 1:But I think it's important for anyone listening to do some self-reflection on yes, you care for the individual right and yes, you want to make sure that they're not doing something that's going to injure them. That's all coming from a good place, but we have to find the shades of gray here. We have to find the balance. When you're thinking about that person, think both about their physical health and their mental health. Filter it through the lens of how is saying this going to make them feel? Am I making them feel weak? Am I making them feel powerless? Am I making them feel powerless?
Speaker 1:There's multiple sides to it. You can ask things or frame things in a way that shows that you care, while also not putting them in a frame or a place of powerlessness or weakness. For instance and maybe this isn't a great example but off the top of my head, saying, well, you shouldn't be doing that, you have cancer versus hey, just let me know if you need any help. Okay, Assuming that they got it, not saying like you will need help, but also just leaving the door open, for if you know, it is a little over. I think there's always a different way of doing things or framing things.
Speaker 2:I would agree because, especially when you said, it makes me feel powerless and those are some of the emotions that I have experienced or occur I feel powerless and it's like, please stop. It doesn't make me feel good.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:It may make you feel good in the present time and moment, but it doesn't do anything for me and I'm not trying to be all about me in this particular situation, but it doesn't help my state of mind.
Speaker 1:And we can find a balance Doesn't help my state of mind and we can find a balance. I'm also going to be honest with you, john, multiple times throughout this podcast. I think a lot of people don't realize that the timing of this podcast's launch was only several weeks before the diagnosis. This podcast has been wrapped around the genesis of this diagnosis and, if I'm being honest with you, multiple times when we've had certain conversations, conversations that we've had inspired me to do episodes or topics on this podcast Because I thought if they might be helpful to you, they might be helpful to someone else, and because you've been very front of mind I don't think you realize how many episodes you've secretly inspired no, I was not aware of that.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that. David means the world to me. It's okay.
Speaker 1:I think it's easy for us as human beings, especially when we're healthy, to think that we're bulletproof, that nothing will ever happen, that we have an endless amount of time, even if we know it's not endless, to treat it like it's endless and to not live life to its fullest because we feel like we have so much time.
Speaker 1:But I think when that time gets taken away, it really emphasizes how important time is, and it sounds like your more recent mindset which, might I say, does echo Maury from Tuesdays with Maury really gets that across, and I want everyone listening to really think about this.
Speaker 1:Don't just roll your eyes or say, oh yeah, I'll do that and then just let this roll off your back. I'm sure if you could have had this realization earlier, while you were healthy, if you could have had the opportunity to have somebody get this lesson across to you in the way that you've come to get this lesson across for yourself in retrospect, you would want that and in my eyes that's what you're providing to everyone here. You're all being blessed with the opportunity to take your life into your own hands and live it. As cliche as it sounds like you were dying To actually put the first things first, what matters most to you in your life in the front, instead of waiting till something terrible happens to have this realization. So I'm going to let you tell people one more time what's really important.
Speaker 2:As I stated earlier, and I'll continue to emphasize, all that matters is the relationships that we build with the people that we care about. It's not the money, it's not the cars, it's not the trucks, all these materialistic things that we spend so much time trying to achieve or acquire. None of it matters anymore, at least not in my eyes. I'll give it all up just to have more time than I'm probably going to have with the people that I love, but everyone has to figure that out for themselves in what's really important to them, whether it be family, friends, whether it's something else, I don't know. At least for me, what matters is the people.
Speaker 2:I do want to thank you, david, for having me on. Hopefully my situation can help someone else, whether it be through their illness or their state of mind and where they are with everything. If I can help one person, I'm happy. I'm hoping I can hopefully impact more individuals. That would be my goal and hopefully that uh will happen. Once again, thank you, david, for having me on on and giving me this opportunity to talk with everyone. Thank you.
Speaker 1:And thank you, john, for agreeing to do this podcast with me. This means the world to me and, frankly, I'm doing this one for me, not for you guys. I'm being a little selfish here. This is really important to me, but I do hope that everyone listening gets something out of this podcast. This is a unique situation and I hope it makes a difference. And remember you are enough and you deserve to fill up your inner cup with happiness, confidence and self-compassion. Thank you for listening to the Sage Solutions Podcast. Your time is valuable and I'm so glad you choose to learn and grow here with me. If you haven't already, don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss out on more sage advice. One last thing the legal language. This podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. No coaching client relationship is formed. It is not intended as a substitute for the personalized advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist or other qualified professional. The opinions of guests are their own and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of the podcast.