Sage Solutions
Advice and insight about personal growth, personal development, and becoming your best self.
Sage Solutions
Curiosity Conversation #2: Role Models
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We challenge the idea of a single perfect role model and trade it for something more useful: picking specific traits we want to emulate without putting anyone on a pedestal. We connect role models to creativity, ADHD focus, and practical time management so admiration turns into real behavior change.
• role models as traits and compartments rather than whole people
• fandom and idolization versus grounded admiration
• aggressively creative people and the pressure to match their output
• creativity, depression, motivation, and giving yourself credit
• ADHD hyperfocus as a strength and a liability
• directing attention with reframes and “mental tricks”
• habit stacking by pairing enjoyable media with chores
• reward systems versus pairing strategies for activation energy
• the urgent important quadrant method for prioritizing tasks
• learning the “how” behind someone’s growth and skill
• becoming the role model you would have wanted
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The Sage Solutions Podcast and content posted by David Sage is presented solely for general informational, educational, and entertainment purposes. No coaching client relationship is formed by listening to this podcast. No Legal, Medical or Financial advice is being given. The use of information on this podcast or materials linked from this podcast or website is at the user's own risk. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice, diagnosis, or treatment of a psychotherapist, physician, professional coach, Lawyer or other qualified professional. Users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice for any medical or mental health condition they may have and should seek the assistance of their healthcare professionals for any such conditions. The opinions of guests are their own and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of the podcast.
Welcome to the Sage Solutions podcast, where we talk about all things personal growth, personal development, and becoming your best self. My name is David Sage, and I am a self-worth and confidence coach with Sage Coaching Solutions. We're bringing it back to a format that we haven't done in a while, and I am really excited about it today. I've been looking forward to doing another one of these for a while, but schedules have been a little tough, so welcome back our two recurring co-hosts, Anna Sage and Hannah Sage, because today is our second curiosity conversation.
SPEAKER_00Hi David. Hi Magenta. Hi everybody.
SPEAKER_01We were discussing having alternate names because Anna and Hannah sound very similar. So I was gonna be magenta.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and they came up with magenta and Gretchen.
SPEAKER_01Listen, those are very different from each other, are they not?
SPEAKER_00They're very different.
SPEAKER_01One's a color and one's a name of a mug girl. But woo, we're happy to be back. But before we get into it, our goal with this podcast is to provide free, helpful tools for you and anyone you know who is looking to improve their life. So take action, subscribe, and share this podcast with them.
Defining Role Models Without Pedestals
SPEAKER_04So just a reminder our curiosity conversations are basically just a format where me and two other people, the first two just happen to be my two co-hosts, sit down and we just have open, free-flowing discussions about personal development topics. Unlike picking one set topic? I wanted to use a different word, but yeah, topic, I guess I was gonna say. Not that we don't, but it's very siloed to that one topic, whereas this can kind of go wherever we want it to go. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00So a little bit of a start of something that I've been kind of thinking about just here and there, kind of light conversation starter, is role models and people that we admire. Whether it be fictional characters, non-fictional, people you know personally, or just people that you see maybe in mainstream media. Do either of you guys have any role models or people that you admire that you can like think of immediately?
SPEAKER_04Yes. I don't know if I was thinking as much or I don't know if I've done as much thinking about it when it comes to like fictional characters and stuff, but I think it's really interesting because a fictional character can be written in a way that it does a really good job of demonstrating certain traits in an idealistic way, something to shoot for, to strive for. Do either of you have one that immediately comes to you?
SPEAKER_01When you first asked that question, I originally sat back and was thinking about it, and I was like, I don't know that I have any clear-cut role models. I don't have a straight answer. This person is my role model. And I think that's because I rather than picking one person or a variety of people that I would say these people are my role models, I think I choose certain traits or certain aspects of someone's life that I look up to about them. And I more so choose parts of people.
SPEAKER_04As opposed to just everything about this person.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think a lot of that is thanks to you, David, and the fact that like you've got me in this mindset of they're seeing all the nuance and gray areas, both in concepts and ideas, but also in people. I think a lot of that has to do with how I approach people in general, rather than seeing people as black and white and like all good or all not good. I kind of take people for all of the varieties of who they are, or all of the good and bad, and you know, I mean, people are complex. So it's hard for me to pick one role model or like see a person as a complete role model because I'm aware of so many parts of them, but I can pick out in my life people I could speak to. Oh, I admire this about them or these things. And I could do that for a variety of people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that's kind of more what I mean. Because if you take a look, there's no person who's gonna have everything figured out and perfect. They're always gonna have some sort of shortcoming, whether people know that or not. So I feel like it's more just if there's admirable qualities or overall I look up to this person because of X, Y, and Z. I think that still works.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think Hannah makes a good point here. A, I do want to say I am really happy that I've inspired that in you, and I I try my best to do that too, but I'm not perfect with it either. You know, it's easy to kind of stereotype somebody one way or another based on their access. Yeah, I have plenty of fluffy.
SPEAKER_01Ugh, not my role model now.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, there's look, I there's plenty there.
SPEAKER_01No, and we're teasing, to be clear.
SPEAKER_04Just being honest. But I think there is sort of a rounding up generally with a role model, but doesn't mean that they're a role model in everything. It's like they have enough things that you can round up and call them a role model because you look up to them in enough ways. Or there's some people that it's one specific thing, but there's other people that there's a lot of ways that you look up to them. And I think that's generally more when people find somebody as a role model. I know there's also an extreme where people put someone on a pedestal. And especially for celebrities, that happens more.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04Do you have I mean, I I guess we haven't really gotten super specific with it, but does anyone have one that they want to share?
Creative Icons And Fictional Heroes
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I've got a bunch. Sweet. I tend to really admire aggressively creative people, people who like cannot stop the urge to create. So, like Brandon Sanderson, just with his writing style, and Stephen King with how much they write, and yes, Anna with her jewel.
SPEAKER_01So, what I hear you saying is you admire me.
SPEAKER_00Because in one way or another, I'm always creating. I do actually, because you are creating, you're always creating whether it be different dances for the dance studio or even with your stoning. I feel like you are usually creating something, and I do admire that about you.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's very kind, but I truly wasn't trying to like hijack and make it about me.
SPEAKER_00No, you're good. So those are a couple like real life people that I really admire. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Keep those neck muscles strong, Anna.
SPEAKER_00And then fictional characters, just with Lord of the Rings being my favorite book series and favorite movies, there's just so many heroic characters to choose from there, whether it be Aragorn with his quiet humility, but also being a king. There's something with that, with the way he leads people and takes care of people. Also with Gandalf, just with his amount of being able to be sensible and loving when the time calls for it and gentle, but then also being able to be a badass.
SPEAKER_04And like very firm with people when they need it.
SPEAKER_00Yep, exactly. Hmm.
SPEAKER_01Interesting. I don't think I've really thought about fictional characters as role models. I think I've only really thought of real people that I actually know in life. Same thing with celebrities. I've never really looked at, besides maybe when I was little and I was like, Hillary Duff, you're the best, you know. But like, I mean, but I think that's more of being a fan than seeing somebody as a role model.
SPEAKER_00And I think there's a difference between idolization and fandom as opposed to like admiration.
SPEAKER_04Well, I think that's kind of that whole pedestal thing.
SPEAKER_00Right. Right. I think I tend to gravitate towards fictional characters just because I'd rather live in that world than in my own. So I tend to growing up, I would imagine myself in these worlds and how I would interact with these people and characters.
SPEAKER_04Also, I think it's it's interesting to me that you idolize a lot of these more creative people, but you're a pretty creative person yourself in a lot of ways as well. And idolizer is the wrong term. That was just stuck in my head from before, but that you look up to a lot of people that are aggressively creative, but I think that comes out in your personality too, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yes and no. I think I look up to them specifically because they are aggressively creative. I can go through spells in my life where I'm not aggressively creative, and that tends to kind of coexist with depression and feeling like I'm not motivated. So I think I really appreciate when they're aggressive. Like I said, like Stephen King or Brandon Sanderson. Brandon Sanderson is writing seven books a year. Like he's insane. And they're whole entire worlds with their own languages, with their own planets and moons and magic systems. Like it's insane.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That almost makes me wonder. I was just reflecting as you were speaking, Hannah. Like it sounds to me like when you're in a great headspace and place is when you experience creativity. And so I almost wonder if you take what you admire from them and model that in your life when you're doing well and embrace that as part of who you are in those moments that you are doing well. And on the flip side, if you're almost judging yourself too harshly in terms of, well, they are able to do it all the time. If there's moments where I can't be like you're still creative, even if you're not aggressively creative. And if you're having like moments or time periods where you can't be as aggressive because other stuff comes up, I don't think that takes away from the fact that you have a lot of that in you too, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, thank you. I think I'm kind of a jack of all trades, master of none a lot of times. So I think I really I admire people who are a master of their craft. Because I tend to dabble in just so many different things. And I enjoy that for sure, but sometimes I wish I could just put all of that energy and creative flow into one thing. Like being an author or something. I would love to be able to build that world, but because I jump around so often, I don't spend enough time in that outlet.
SPEAKER_04But I think you have at least at one point in the past. So you probably also feel the gap between when you were doing that, when it you had a creative outlet that was such a big part of your life, and the difference between when it is more spread out and it's not such a singular focus.
SPEAKER_01I almost wonder if people that you identify as being aggressively creative experience almost the opposite thing, where they're putting so much of their time into this one aspect of themselves. I wonder if they ever feel like, man, I spent so much of my time and energy on this, and I never really got to dabble in this or experience this or try this. Because that's how I used to feel when I would paint in such a hyper realistic way, is I'd spend literally hundreds of hours eventually getting one painting done over a course of a bunch of time. And yeah, of course, it was rewarding to see it progress over time and to feel accomplished, like, wow, I did that. But there were times where I'd be like, holy cow, I just spent eight hours today working on this. And there's so many other things I could have poured my energy into in this entire day, but I only did one thing, you know?
SPEAKER_00I mean, as someone who can't spend more than an hour doing something, I envy you of that.
SPEAKER_04I don't know if it's there's pros and cons.
Creativity Slumps And Self-Pressure
SPEAKER_01But David, do you relate to that at all? Because I'm sure it's somewhat like the hyper focus element where I get so invested in this one thing, but then I feel like, okay, but there were so many other things I could have broken up that time with and also done today.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I have a couple thoughts here. Number one, I think you're probably not giving yourself enough credit, Hannah.
SPEAKER_02A.
SPEAKER_04Number two, it's almost like it's a habit. Let's see. Number two, for somebody to be putting out that amount of creativity, they also have to be aggressively productive. There are aggressively creative people that aren't aggressively productive too, and they might be super creative, but you're not seeing the output of those things. But I have felt that with if people aren't aware, ADHD has sort of a dichotomy between being distracted by a lot of things and the ability to hyperfocus on something that you're interested in. So there are times where I'm hyper-focused for long, long periods of time and it's almost like a super focus. But there are also times where I'm hyper-focused on something I'm interested in that I don't need to be hyper-focused on at that time, but I still can't get it out of my brain when I'm supposed to be doing other things, and that affects things negatively. A lot of the negative side of that is it's not just a superpower, it's like a hose. And the hose can be used to put out a fire, but it can also just continue to come out and be like, oh my god, it's filling up the room. Please stop. You know, it's the inability to turn that hose off or to get it to start if it's not directed towards something that you find interesting. So it does make attention problems kind of harder on both sides in different ways. So yeah, there's definitely times where I've hyper focused on something that wasn't actually productive for way too long and probably could have done much more productive things or done, but I I kind of bounce around enough or a decent amount, kind of like Hannah said. There are times where I wish I was even more in-depth on one thing. So I I've felt both. You know, there's times where I've identified with you of like, holy crap, I've spent way too much time on this. But there's plenty of other times where I'm like, man, if I just went deep on this other thing, I would really get there, but I've only went, you know, I I do feel the weight of that jack of all trades sometimes.
SPEAKER_00With that being said, do you feel like you can choose what you're passionate about? So I know with you, David, with your ADHD, sometimes you hyperfixate on whether it be an article or a specific self-help person you've discovered. Do you feel like you can actually choose where that hyperfixation like starts, or do you feel like you're a whim to your own passion? Because if you can choose, that changes the whole ballgame.
SPEAKER_04Somewhat. I think I have some agency over it, but there's other times where it's not really. Because it's based on how I feel about it, and I only have so much control over how I feel about things, you know? I think I do a decent job of trying to direct my focus and framing things in ways that are as beneficial as I can try to make them, but I'm definitely not perfect with it either. But there are just things that do not interest me. And even if it would be useful for me to learn, it's really tough.
SPEAKER_01I agree. I think in my experience there's some element of choice, but I'm gravitating towards what I am authentically interested in, and all of the things that I am hyper-fixating on are things I'm naturally interested in, and or I'm kind of using mental tricks to combine something I have to do with something I'm naturally interested in, so that I get it done. If that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00Anna, can we go back to what you said about pairing two different things off? I thought that was really interesting because that's not something I'm very good at. So I'm curious if you have an example or anything of what you said before.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't remember which book or podcast or audiobook I got this idea from. It might be Atomic Habits, I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_04But I think you might be right.
ADHD Hyperfocus And Directing Attention
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I remember reading about this and being like, oh, because I have difficulty getting started with things that I know I need to do when I feel overwhelmed by the amount of things I need to do. So I've found that if I have a show that I'm super into right now, into watching, or a book that I've been reading that I'm really into, or something else that's creative typically is something that strikes my hyperfixation. If there's any possible way for me to listen to something in the background, or watch something in the background while I'm folding and putting away laundry, doing the dishes, tidying around the house, sending out and clearing out my emails, whatever the things are that I need to do, if I can pair them together, I can kind of trick my brain into feeling like, ooh, this is enjoyable. I get to be doing this thing that I enjoy while also getting something else done. And then in accomplishing that other thing that was really hard to get started and that was feeling overwhelming, I get that dopamine hit of, woo-hoo, I got something done, and that can keep me going. Does it work all the time? No. But mostly that's how I get myself started at least. Okay. And how I keep going on things that are typically like, ugh, I don't want to do this right now.
SPEAKER_00That sounds like a good way to keep moving forward and getting going on these unpleasant tasks. I mean, not even unpleasant, because the things you were saying were things that you do actively enjoy, right?
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm I don't actively enjoy doing the dishes or sweeping or those kinds of things. That's fair. But I pair it with something I do enjoy, and then I don't focus so much on like, ugh, I still have so much more vacuuming to do. I still have so much more tidying and sorting to do. But it really only works with tasks that I don't have to be entirely focused on. Like I can't work on a grad school assignment and watch a show at the same time, you know?
SPEAKER_04I cannot agree more. I do this a lot. Like a lot, a lot is probably my number one hack of doing hard things.
SPEAKER_00So that's interesting because I do things a little differently generally. I think I do more of a reward system.
SPEAKER_01I'm like, okay, I'll do this thing that I hate for an hour, and then I can reward myself with doing watching that show or reading that book or I that typically doesn't work for me because I feel a lot of guilt if I have this whole mental checklist of stuff that needs to get done. And then taking that break to reward myself, I've just the entire time I'm like, but you should still be doing this, this, this, and this, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's not a break. It's after everything is done on my list. Yeah, it would be at the end.
SPEAKER_01Oh, see, and I just I would struggle to get everything done without that something in the background keeping me going, I think. I think I would lose motivation or lose my what is the word I'm looking for here?
SPEAKER_04Drive.
SPEAKER_01Drive. Wow. Look at you.
SPEAKER_04I think it also provides like a form of stimulation in the background. This might be a little bit of an ADHD thing, even though I'm sure it still works for other people. I've just heard this now a good amount of times from people with ADHD as being like a very helpful hack for them. I think Mark Manson was talking about this in Solved podcast, where just providing that mental stimulation during something that you don't find as interesting can you can task switch back and forth mentally to keep yourself from losing the steam. I think by putting it at the end, though, it's really tough because it's not helping me. I don't know that it's a strong enough help with the activation energy, like getting started. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Or it just feels too far away for me. Like it's too overwhelming for me to be like, in two hours I get to relax and do this thing. I'm like, but that's two whole hours away, and there's a lot of tasks in that time, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I don't know if it's just an ADHD thing, because I'll like listen to a podcast when I'm doing something or listen to music.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no, just to be clear, I don't think it's just ADHD. I'm sorry. The way I represented that was off. I just want to correct that. I'm just saying I've found that it's very common in people with ADHD that they find this strategy helpful. Everyone struggles with focus things, everyone struggles with attention things. It's not specific to ADHD.
SPEAKER_00But it kind of goes hand in hand. Like I think of my sister, she's got 17 different tabs open on her phone that she's bouncing between. And I'm like, that looks so stressful. Just close them, read one article, then read the next article. But she's like bouncing between different things, and it's a lot. So my condolences to you, ADHD people.
Pairing Enjoyment With Boring Tasks
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's a weird balance to be like bouncing between things, but then overwhelmed by the fact that I'm bouncing between things. So I've had to really work on okay, let's get it all out of my brain, put it in a list, sort the list by my coworkers make fun of me in a fun-spirited way that I'm they'll be like, this goes in the urgent but not important category, Anna. Or, you know, because I kind of have to weigh each of those itemized things by what do I need to immediately do? What things are more important than others, what things can I put off for now and intentionally not focus on so that I don't hit this point of like I'm bouncing between 12 things and now I'm super overwhelmed and I'm frozen and I can't do any of the 12 things.
SPEAKER_04Are you talking about like the Roosevelt grid?
SPEAKER_01Excuse me? Yeah, what the hell is that?
SPEAKER_04It's it was like a time management thing that I've I think it was.
SPEAKER_00Was it Teddy's system?
SPEAKER_04I don't think it was Teddy's Franklin D. Roosevelt. I might be misspeaking here, but it was one of the presidents did like a quadrant system where it was urgent, important, and it was like urgent and important was the first one, and then it's that sounds just like it.
SPEAKER_01Did I know it was called the Roosevelt something or other?
SPEAKER_04I guess he like talked about it and it became a big thing because he talked about how that was how he got so much done.
SPEAKER_01There we go. Well, thank you, Roosevelt. I actually got this.
SPEAKER_00You're a reincarnated president. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_03Be your role model?
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_01I actually I have to give a shout out to my former co-teacher, Helena Taylor. She's the one that introduced this to me, I think, because she she recognized that I was like, I have 37 tasks that I'm trying to do, and I'm bouncing between six of them at a time. And she was like, hey, so let's give this a try. And so, yeah, same thing. It's a quadrant of if this helps anybody listening, awesome. It's helped me immensely. It's a quadrant, so four sections. And after I just brain dump and list absolutely everything on my mind that I need to do and want to do, then I sort them into the quadrant based on the four categories. So there's urgent and important, important but not urgent, not urgent or important, and whatever the other one is that I haven't said important. Right, important.
SPEAKER_04It's four boxes and it's urgent, not urgent, and then it's important, not important, and then you just see where they fall on how they collide with the other ones.
SPEAKER_01Right. So then it helps me go, okay, even though I have 67 different tasks I want to do, these six are both urgent and important. This is where I need to start.
SPEAKER_04And generally you're avoiding the not urgent, not important?
SPEAKER_01I mean, not avoiding, but I'm just allowing myself to be a snake. No, I'm allowing myself to mentally detach from them and go, okay, they're not urgent and not important. I don't have to actively think about them and become overwhelmed. They can change though over time, right? Just because it's not urgent or important today, three days later, I might need to move that to, whoa, this is getting urgent, you know? Great point.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. No, it's a super cool technique. I don't mean to yuck your yum, but David made me do this a couple years ago, and I had like a flashback to him making me do this. He didn't make me, we did it together, but it was like his idea. And we did this for like household chores, and I hated it. We had four different lists, and it was super awkward, and we like bounced around. And of course, we did the one that was like not important because that was like the fun, light tasks, and then all of a sudden we had all of the heavy tasks at the end. It just didn't work for household chores for us in a pair. It did not work.
SPEAKER_01No, totally yuck my yum all you want. For some people, it's gonna be like, oh, like for me. And for other people, they're gonna be like, absolutely not. I'm doing something else.
SPEAKER_04I found that that's a big thing in the time management section of personal and professional development. Their time management tools are very hit and miss. They'll either click with people or it's like, ugh, this feels like a chore. Right. And it's gonna be it's one of the most highly individualized, kind of black and white areas that I've seen where it just either works for somebody or doesn't.
SPEAKER_00Well, and that makes sense because I'm someone who doesn't really struggle with time management very much.
SPEAKER_04I'm pretty like I was like, oh boy, yeah. Me too.
SPEAKER_00It's something that I tend to excel at a little bit is my time management and getting things done quickly and efficiently kind of thing. And that's why you're my role model in that.
SPEAKER_01I do, I do look up to you in that aspect. That's one of the things that I would say. Rather than saying Hannah as a whole person is my role model, I I prefer to choose circling all the way back.
SPEAKER_04I know I was gonna say we we barely touched on like actual examples. We just sort of talked about the concept.
SPEAKER_01No, I like choosing very strong aspects of a person that I like to emulate in myself or strive for, or that I lean on them for when I realize it's something I need help with. And that's one of the things that when I needed to move out of my old apartment, you were the perfect person to be like, all right, get over here, here's what we're doing. And you just, I don't know, you're just super, super great at time management and getting things done. Which is nice.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's kind of my jam. So I think the the quadrant idea was a really cool idea and concept. And I think it worked out nicely because David was able to like be more involved in the way that I do my time management, but it ultimately did tend to slow me down personally. But it probably sped you up. It kind of like helped us probably bridge a little bit. But I tend to get frustrated when I can't just move at my own speed.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You said that you said that a little too confidently.
SPEAKER_04No, it's that I sometimes slow you down. That's just oh no.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. No.
SPEAKER_04I mean, we all get frustrated over things. That's just being human.
SPEAKER_00Is that shades of gray?
SPEAKER_03It's so shades of gray.
SPEAKER_01You've got to find a nuance.
SPEAKER_03Looking for a man with nuance.
SPEAKER_01No, no, get that out of here.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, it probably will.
SPEAKER_00So circling back to do we want to circle back?
The Urgent Important Quadrant Method
SPEAKER_04Yeah, let's uh let's hit on some role models. Whether they be partial role models or rounding up to the whole role model. Obviously, nobody's gonna be perfect. I have different role models in different areas. All right, let's start with. I have role models in the personal development space. I think there's a lot of people that have like individual qualities or are very good at specific things, and I look to them for those specific things. But there are a couple people that I think have done such a good job generally or pretty close to all around that I can round up and just say that in a lot of ways they are a role model for me. I've actually already talked about this on the podcast, but Tony Robbins is somebody that has so many areas of personal development figured out, and he's in a lot of ways a freak of nature with this stuff. So much of it is so intuitive to him, at least at this point, that I look up to him because I think there's just so much to learn from his fifth uh whatever it is, 40 years of experience in this industry and helping millions of people. I think Mark Manson is another guy that has really, really done a great job with hitting so many different areas of life and doing it well. There's there's there's lots of people I look up to in this space. Not putting them, you know, it's easy to kind of put Tony on a pedestal, but I also realize that they're real people. And there are times when I disagree with both of those people. They're not perfect. But I also have normal life role models too. I've looked up to my dad in a lot of ways for years and years and years since I was a kid. And there are a lot of pieces of me that I've modeled after uh learning from him. I've seen my mom as a role model for a long time. There are a lot of things that she handles things better than just about anybody that I know, and I don't think I would know nearly as much about mindfulness without her. Both of you are role models to me in different ways. There are aspects of both of you that I think are are really admirable and I look up to and try and emulate and grow from. There's lots of people and friends and family, and I think you can learn something from almost anybody, but not everybody reaches that level of admiration, you know?
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm. Yeah, I I agree with you in that there are some people that seem so well-rounded and accomplished in a variety of areas that they'd get closer to me saying in general that person's a role model. But for the most part, I think I look more in compartments like you did, right? Like how you listed some of your personal growth and development role models. I think of key players that I've modeled my practice and teaching after that have really impacted the way that I approach kids, that I approach teaching and learning, and that I wouldn't be the same professionally without being able to look up to them and see how they've modeled or given me specific feedback as a student, as a student teacher, and as a teacher. And I could list a variety of people from Corey Schaefer, who I got to do my internship with before I became a teacher. Helena Taylor, who I just mentioned, gave me such great insight into both of them, really PBL and different approaches to learning and hands-on learning. And also people like Kate Somerville, who at the time was Kate Schmidt, and she was my personal fourth-grade teacher. And she showed me that teachers don't always have to be this strict or very professional figure, and that you can very much still be yourself in moments and open up to kids and show them that you're a human too. I could I could go on and on. That's it's not just limited to them, but there's different aspects of who I am now as a teacher that I've modeled after them.
SPEAKER_04Would you call them professional role models then?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that's the thing. I classify different areas, like professional role models, personal role models in my life. I mean, same thing. I would go straight to my mom and my dad. I think we're very lucky in that we've learned very different things from both of them, but they both have key qualities that we've both modeled in our lives. For you, of course. I mean, seriously, there are many situations that I often find myself thinking, man, I just wish I could have David here to talk to this person because he would know exactly how to frame it and what to do to help them shift their thinking. And like, truly, you you have done, and I've seen you do the personal growth to become who you are now from where you used to be as a kid. Many people don't even do that at all in their lifetime, and you've not only done it for yourself, but committed to making an impact in other people's lives too, in that same way. So I mean, yeah, again, I could go on and on for hours, but nobody really wants to hear me talk that much. So I'll pause. Except maybe David.
SPEAKER_04Thank you, Anna.
SPEAKER_01You're welcome.
SPEAKER_04What about you, Hannah? We've gotten a couple of your like fantasy or fictional role models, which I think those were really interesting. I still might want to hit a fictional role model or two as well, just because I think they can be such good portrayals of specific traits. They can put them in situations that demonstrate it even beyond what most real life people would deal with. So I really like that, and I think I need to do more thinking about that because I think there's a lot of value there. But are there any ones that jump out to you of either in your life or just real people that might be known figures?
SPEAKER_00Right from the jump, I just think of my parents uh with my dad with his cancer battle and everything. I have a lot of respect for his resilience and his grace, even up until like literally the last hours of his life. He just was had so much love and grace. But then also for my mom, just having to learn how to be alone for the first time in her life. And she was a stay-at-home mom, so she wasn't really working up until my dad passed away. So she had to even come down to learning how to like pay the bills and her having to start over and relearn how to live life on her own. I have a lot of admiration for her with that. Also, I'm not trying to out anyone in my family, but it was a different generation and a different time. But my mom didn't really ever hear I love you from her parents growing up or any type of grace or love, or the way that my grandparents showed love was putting a roof over my mom's head. You know what I mean? It was very practical. It was a farming family. Yeah, it was a farming family. So for my mom to embrace that softer side of her later on in life was I think extremely difficult for her. And it took a good amount of counseling and just a lot of opening herself up to outside help, which I think is valuable, especially like I said, for that previous generation. I think our generation is much quicker to rely on therapy, guidance, counselors, someone in their 60s, I think. It's a much more challenging task.
Real Life Mentors And Family Models
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I actually want to double down on that real quick. I think your mom is pretty incredible. Just hearing a lot of what you guys experienced throughout life and talking to her about the things that she's gone through in her life and experienced, and just even in the time that I've known her, seeing how much she actively pursues growth and development and frames things. There are few people I know that have actively gone through as much growth as she has, and so I guess I would say she's been a role model for me too. And I also want to double down on like I think every single person I've ever talked to about your father has basically mirrored the same thing of like he just handled things with such grace that even though I never knew him, in a way, the stories that I've heard about him are like something that I look up to. I would love to emulate some of those things in my life too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he was awesome. Man of not many words, but that just made his words more meaningful.
SPEAKER_01In many ways, that reminds me of Will. You know, I mean, I think that's something that I respect in Will a lot is that he measures uh his words and he puts a lot of weight in making sure that what he says he means. And I mean, I've never met somebody that can stay so calm and like truly I don't know, just kind of balances out my chaos.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I could see that with Will. Almost like a quiet wisdom. Yep. Or discernment of knowing when to speak, when not to.
SPEAKER_01Yep. But honestly, we could sit here all day and think through and find plenty of other examples within each of our lives of people that we look up to for various reasons. However, I don't think our listeners want us to detail all of the people that are role models in our lives. So if you're going to take anything from this, reflect on who's a role model in your life. And truly, it feels incredible when somebody recognizes that in you and when you hear how you've impacted somebody else or that you are a role model to somebody else. So reflect on it and take some time to reach out to people. Send them a text, send them an email, give them a call, and just be like, hey, I listened to this amazing podcast. And it made me reflect on who are role models in my life. And I consider you a role model because of this. And make their day, you know? They may not even know.
SPEAKER_04I think that's a good one. I think it's also interesting to think about being a role model. You're going to have people in your life that you have the opportunity to be a role model for. Not you're going to be like, you better consider me a role model, but living your life in a way that you could be someone's role model. Thinking about the fact that people may look up to you in different aspects and that you could be helping provide that for them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I do this a lot in teaching. I try to approach each day as like, if I was this kid, how do I how would I have wanted my teacher to show up for me in this moment and try to do what little Anna would have wanted or would have looked up to.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. That's a great way to live your life. Be the role model that you would have wanted.
SPEAKER_04That's a good framing.
SPEAKER_01Love that. You basically said what I said, but in a far more efficient and succinct way.
SPEAKER_00Efficiency is my middle name.
SPEAKER_04Another way of looking at it is okay, so we have these people that we consider role models in different ways, whether it's partial, whatever. How does that matter? Oh, that's great. They're great. How do we think about taking these exemplars of different things and trying to implement or absorb some of it for our own lives? You know, just thinking somebody's great is one thing, but actually utilizing it is another.
SPEAKER_00I think processing why you think they're great and what they have to offer and how they come about that is a great place to start.
SPEAKER_04Right. As opposed to just thinking about the output, like how did they get there? Instead of just putting them on that pedestal thinking about what did they have to do to get to where they are.
Becoming A Role Model On Purpose
SPEAKER_01And if you don't know, sometimes it's great to ask them how did you get to become what I see in you today? Because sometimes it's It's easy to see that in somebody and be like, I could never be as blank as they are. But it can be empowering to hear, well, it took me five and a half years to actively work on this skill through this, this, and this. It might be really empowering to hear how they got there too.
SPEAKER_00True. That'd be a fun coffee date idea.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, just go and like pick somebody's brain. And that kind of accomplishes what you were saying before about letting them know that you view them as a role model. So kind of two birds, one stone.
SPEAKER_00I've enjoyed this conversation. Do you guys have any key takeaways?
SPEAKER_01Interestingly, I think my biggest takeaway is actually what we just talked about last, because as I was saying it, it was sort of a realization of the fact that role models are made. They don't just start that way. They're real people and they get to that place through their life experiences, through their intentional practice and work. And realizing that I want to talk to my role models more about the how. And I think that would give me more insight into applying it to my own life and making sure that I'm living in a way that could potentially make me a role model to somebody else.
SPEAKER_00Talking to your role models is an interesting point, Anna. It kind of makes me want to train an AI to be Gandalf. And can't counsel me. I'm going to do it. I'm going to let you guys know how it is.
SPEAKER_03Oh boy.
SPEAKER_00But in all seriousness, I mean, I will do the Gandalf thing. But in all seriousness, I think a key takeaway for me is realizing that these aggressively creative people, like Anna said, are probably not necessarily excelling in other aspects of their life, potentially. So just keeping that in the back of my mind. Just so I keep them more towards admiration for that specific quality. Or that specific, what would the word be?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I would say qualities or traits or just like trait area of their life. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Aspect of who they are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And just realizing that there's more to them kind of thing. So that way I'm not beating myself up for not being able to emulate that.
SPEAKER_04Sure. Like taking them off the pedestal.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04That's a good one. I think for me, there's a couple. It was really interesting hearing the different ways that you both thought about this. Like, Anna, it was very interesting hearing that you had it not just by area, but really segmented out as opposed to overall mentors. And that's almost never talked about, but I don't think you're rare in that. I think a lot of people actually do think about it that way. Hannah, I thought it was really interesting to talk about fictional characters and how they can be exemplars of traits. And I'm looking forward to doing more thinking about that. And then I think the like biggest takeaway for me was using the frame of working towards being a role model for other people. Whether they actually choose to see you that way or not, putting yourself in a position where if somebody saw you as a role model, you would be happy with the way that you were presenting yourself for that. So that you would be making that positive impact on another person. I think it's a helpful frame for resetting your perspective and trying to live your life not just for you, but to make a difference in other people's lives, not just in the information that you share, but in the way that you live.
SPEAKER_01And remember, you are enough. And you deserve to fill up your inner cup with happiness, true confidence, and resilience.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for listening to the Sage Solutions podcast. Your time is valuable, and I'm so glad you choose to learn and grow here with us. We'd love to hear your feedback, so click the link in the description and let us know what you think. If you haven't already, don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss out on more Sage advice.
SPEAKER_04One last thing. The legal language. This podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. No coaching client relationship is formed. It is not a substitute for the personalized advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.