He Lost Everything... And Rebuilt Bigger & Better

On today’s episode of The Business Game, we’re sitting down with Sahil Nijhawan, CEO of Nexus DMC Oceania and an entrepreneur who has spent more than 20 years building businesses across travel, real estate, construction, AI, and consumer brands. 

LEVEL 5: $30M-$100M: Executive Layer and Divisions 

When COVID brought the global travel industry to a complete standstill, Sahil lost the business he had spent years building. With no income and no clear path forward, he went from leading a thriving company to stacking shelves at Coles at 4am, working in supermarkets, teaching short courses, and rebuilding his life one step at a time. 

Today, Sahil leads Nexus DMC Oceania, helping power a global travel platform supporting 190,000 travel agents across 18 countries, while simultaneously building and investing in AI-native businesses designed for the future. 

We asked him about overcoming failure, scaling multiple businesses at once, using AI to multiply your time, why community matters more than ever in an AI-driven world, and what it really takes to become fearless as a founder. 

Let's dive in, 
With Sahil Nijhawan: 

• How COVID wiped out his business almost overnight 
• Why working in a supermarket became one of the greatest lessons of his life 
• The mindset shift that made him fearless as an entrepreneur 
• How Nexus supports 190,000 travel agents globally 
• Why founders must stop being the bottleneck 
• How his AI assistant "Nova" helps manage multiple businesses 
• Why persistence matters more than talent or timing 
• The importance of building community in an AI-first world 
• How to scale businesses without losing local trust and relationships 
• The lessons he learned from building, losing, and rebuilding everything 

If you're a founder, business owner, or aspiring entrepreneur looking for a masterclass in resilience, leadership, and building businesses that can survive almost anything, this episode is packed with practical insights and hard-earned lessons. 

Connect with Sahil Nijhawan:
Website: https://www.nexusdmc.com/cp/oceania-dmc-21557
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/sahil-nijhawan-2018aba 

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https://www.gohighlevel.com/?fp_ref=ribu88 

This episode contains affiliate advertising. The Business Game Group is a GoHighLevel affiliate. If you sign up through the link in the show notes, we may earn a commission at no additional cost to you. 

Transcript

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As a founder, you should be ready to do anything to be able to stay true to your vision. We had four retail stores and about 20 plus staff members, and then suddenly everything stopped. Helped me to become A, persistent, B, absolutely fearless today. Okay, what worse will happen? You know, if worse something happens, we'll build it back again. AI has got no ROI. AI is there to just help you. It's just so addictive. It's being used for the wrong reasons. The old handshake will never go away. That's where your connections will get built. I think it's easy to grow up to $20 to $30 million in revenue. Welcome to The Business Game, the show that breaks business down into real levels from zero to over $50 billion, so founders can see exactly where they are and what comes next. Today's guest is playing at level five, which sits in the 30 to $100 million bracket, the organizer stage. At this level, you're no longer managing individuals, you're building an organization. The challenges? Hiring true executives, strengthening governance, and coordinating multiple teams at scale. The goal? Build an executive-led company that grows without relying on you Welcome to The Business Game. I'm Steve Plummer. And I'm Kalina Stano Don't forget to like and subscribe to the show wherever you're listening. Today we're joined by Sahil Neechavan, CEO of Nexus DMC Oceania. Over the past 20 years, Sahil has built and scaled businesses across travel, AI, real estate, construction, and consumer brands. When COVID brought the global travel industry to a standstill and wiped out his businesses almost overnight, he rebuilt from the ground up, emerging with a completely new approach to resilience, leadership, and growth. Today, Sahil leads Nexus DMC Oceania, while building a portfolio of AI-native ventures, helping businesses scale globally without losing the local relationships and community trust that drive long-term success. His focus is on combining cutting-edge technology with strong operating systems to build lean, resilient businesses ready for whatever comes next. Let's dive in with Sahil Neechavan. Sahil, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me, guys. All righty. Lovely to have you on. So Sahil, you've spent more than 20 years building across those, those niches that I mentioned, uh, travel, real estate, construction, consumer brands, and so forth. Before we get into the details of that, can you give us the 30-second version of what Nexus DMC Oceania actually does? So Nexus, uh, is a B2B platform. Um, we globally support about 190,000 travel agents. Um, so it's, it's a platform we had built for travel agents to be able to connect with wholesalers, uh, in one spot. It also brings in-- Uh, over the years, we've made it very efficient in a way that, um, it actually, uh, cuts down the time from building an itinerary, which used to take a couple of hours down to five minutes for a travel agent. So, uh, it's a, it's a technology platform currently being used globally. We've got offices, about 18 offices globally, close to about 1,000-plus staff members. Um, and we continue to grow, uh, in, in, um, Australia and the US area, which is our brand-new offices. But globally as well, we are expanding into more countries and more travel agents. Yeah. And travel agents subscribe to the platform. Is that correct? Yeah. It's a free of cost platform. We don't charge anything for it. We're not a SaaS, uh, platform. It's, um... So it's a, it's a platform where travel agents can log in. We've now got an extra layer over the t- uh, technology platform. That is, we own our own assets, um, in places like Europe. So Europe, we've got, um, the second-biggest fleet i-i-in, in Europe almost. So we've got about 100-plus buses. We've got 100 vans on the ground. Um, a similar sort of setup is there in Middle East. We have a similar setup in Southeast Asia and also in Oceania, which where I'm based. Um, so yeah, we not only now provide technology to the travel agents, but we also have a one-stop shop where people can actually come and are dealing with the real operator. So we're no longer a middleman in between. Over the years, the company has grown to a point where we own our own assets. We own our own, uh, you know, you, you're speaking to our staff members when you're on ground. You're not speaking to a third party, and that's been a phenomenal, um, journey for the company, and the growth has been phenomenal as well. Yeah. Well, congratulations. Let's dive in, huh? Yeah. Yeah. That's in- that's incredible. So Sunil, I know you've had your hands in businesses across m- uh, multiple industries, but today you're the CEO of Nexus DMC Oceania. How did that opportunity come about, and what was it about Nexus that made you wanna lead this next chapter? So I was actually a supplier for Nexxis. I used to be a wholesaler for them pre-COVID. And, um, you know, and I- I- I'm assuming I did a good job at the time because, um, uh, after COVID when the business shut down and, you know, we had, had to start from ground zero again, um, the opportunity came my way. I got called by our global founder, um, Vinay, Vinay Gupta and Amit, and they actually called me over to Bangalore and said, "Sahil, we want you to lead the Oceania office." Um, there was a few back and forth, uh, with the- with them and to understand what they actually wanted. Um, and they said, "Look, you know, we've, we've seen the kind of service you've provided us pre-COVID. We also see, you know, how you've tackled our clients, but we also believe that the way you scaled your business during COVID, um, we can pretty much, you know, give you a jet pack of the company support and if you can scale the same way in Australia and the US." And that's how the opportunity happened. So 2024, uh, September, we opened Nexxis in Melbourne, um, and we started taking over one of our biggest clients into the, uh, from the US coming into Australia. And now, um, one and a half years later, we guys are doing close to about 30-plus million dollars just in the, uh, just in Australia. We do close to about 30-plus in, uh, in the US. So it's been a phenomenal growth. Uh, and this year, like all that last year we were building, I think this year we are aiming to go over 100 in Australia itself. Yeah, wow. Congrats. That's incredible. Yeah. Wow. Take us back to that moment, if you can, so we can talk about this journey, Sahil, because COVID effectively, it wiped out your travel business almost overnight, and so what, what was that like? The, the... What was the scale of the loss? What was going through your mind? How did you recover? Did you just feel like throwing your hands up and walking away? Talk us through that, 'cause that's a, that's a big hit, right? Yeah. Yeah, look, absolutely. I think COVID was both a learning and a blessing, I would say. Um, and we had a, we had four retail stores, um, down in Melbourne, me and my wife used to run them. We had an inbound company, that's where Nexxis was one of our clients, and we had about 20-plus staff members, um, you know, was doing absolutely amazing with the revenue and, you know, we make good profit. And then suddenly, um, you know, everything stopped. And we were like, "Okay." But, you know, it's, it's one of those times where you feel that things are gonna come back up because the news everywhere was saying things will open back in three months, things will open back in two months. So we kept going. We kept the business alive even though, you know, the shopping centers were closed, our stores were closed, but I kept all the staff members o- on board for close to about the first three months at least. Then, um, you know, there was some government help which came by because nobody knew when it's gonna open. Like, it was really in the dark, right? So What then happened was, um, about six months later, close to about six months later, um, you know, we started seeing the real effects because there was zero dollars coming in, and we were refunding clients, we were chasing with suppliers. Come about a year, um, later, we just had to put the white flag up, and we were like, "Look, we can't go anymore." So I had to let the staff go. We had to shut down the business from a rental perspective as well. All the stores had to be shut down. So, um, I think the only thing which was in my mind at that time was I was in that hope that things will get better and we'll open back again. But we were in Melbourne, luckily, and we had the longest, uh, lockdown in the world. We're actually locked down for nearly two years, and, um, after that we had nothing to go back to. So I had to change. To keep my sanity at that time, I had to pick up some odd jobs, you know, whatever I could get my hands on. Um, I had a friend who owned a real estate business. He said to me, "Look, you're sitting at home going crazy. Why don't you come and do real estate?" And that was the last job I ever wanted to do. But luckily, um, it worked out really well because I had good corporate contacts. I, I kept my relationships. I kept talking to people who I was dealing with in travel, and those, those people supported me in real estate as well. So when I had a, a great deal or a, or, or something which I wanted them to invest in, well, I did phenomenally well. So in the first two years in real estate while I was getting back up, um, did some great numbers, and while I was doing that, I was doing some odd jobs in, you know, a supermarket, um, there for the fir- for about four months. Then I was actually going out and training at schools, uh, on video calls with a company called Short Courses Australia, um, training kids for RSA and food, um, food safety. So whatever I could get my hands on at the time to keep my sanity, um, I did. Wow. That's incredible. Mm. Now, rebuilding from zero is something most entrepreneurs talk about in theory, but very few have actually lived that- Mm um, and you very much have. So you're now playing at level five, which is incredible considering where you, you know, where you stopped and where you've- where you are now. Um, so where the challenge shifts from building a business to building an organization, which is where that level five is that I sort of mentioned for the business game, what was the hardest leadership lesson you had to learn about yourself during that rebuild period? I think, um, one of the things was that you have to be persistent in life. Like, keep on being persistent around, keep trying. A lot of founders, when you have failures, actually hold yourself back, and- I, I ha- I was thrown in the deep where, you know, I had to go out and do certain things which I had never expected to do. Um, and I think that was my biggest-- That's why I said, you know, COVID was a big blessing as well because if I wouldn't have gone out there and, and, you know, done the real estate work, and worked in supermarkets, wo- worked back in, um, you know, um, going to schools and doing training, I wouldn't have actually looked at other businesses ever in that, from that lens because I only had a tourism business, and only thing I knew was travel. But today, I look at businesses from a very different lens. I've got a construction business I'm supporting at the moment. There is a couple of two AI businesses I've invested in. So that-- You, you need to start... For, for-- Biggest lesson for me was to be able to start looking at business from a different area, a different perspective. And you know what? I mean, as a founder, you should be ready to do anything to be able to stay true to your vision. I mean, I had that vision when I had my initial company pre-COVID, that I want to be a, you know, stock-listed company. Um, I have the same vision today. So in that vision, whatever pathway and whatever steps I have to take, I'll keep taking. Now, they can be the harder steps, they can be the easier ones, but you just keep taking one step at a time to keep building it to that level. Yeah. Wow, that's incredible. Mm. So o- on that, where you are now, Sahil- Time is, is an issue for every entrepreneur, right? The, the challenging part is we've only got 24 hours in the day. That's all- Yeah God gives us, right? So we've only got 24 hours. So at that level five where you're at, how do you determine across all of those business activities how you allocate your time? So the... I think the biggest part for me is each of those business have actually got, um, a team and a business leader behind it. So Next iz, I've got a team of 30. I've got an amazing operations and, um, CFO, uh, operations at manager, uh, operations head and a CFO. I've got a great product team. Similarly, in the construction area, we've got the main director who's the, who's actually the person who goes on sites and work. So my job actually becomes easier in all of those businesses. Um, the AI, uh, Airbnb software we're building, it's being built by a tech person who's fully, you know, makes the... We have weekly calls where he'll come and show me what he's doing, and then, you know, I'll be able to add my inputs to it. So they're, each of those business have actually got a leader, um, and I fully trust them. They're the ones who take the shots as well. Uh, I'm there to support and open the doors wherever I can. Um, and besides that, to be able to manage all of that, I do take a lot of help from AI. I've got a AI virtual assistant, um, at the moment, which I use significantly today. Uh, you know, looks at all my emails, has got all my businesses lined up. Um, I've got WhatsApp groups with all those businesses, business owners, and my AI assistant as well. So any questions they have before even I can answer, um, she goes and answers it. So I've named her Nova. And, um, and so she's like my central brain, and then wherever required with those weekly calls, I'm able to go and help out as well. Okay. Wow, that's great. Yeah, and... No, you go. Oh, sorry. Just with that, with that setup, 'cause I'm sure there'd be people, um, wanting to know, some of our listeners. W- setting up Nova, as you've named her, how long did that take you, and where did you go to get that, uh, detail? Where did you... D- or did you bring someone in to set her up for you? No, no. Interestingly, so- I got motivated, and I should say this, I actually got motivated with Vinay. So Vinay, our global founder, right? I, I was on a call with him and he was, you know, showing us something on ChatGPT, which he was building. I was like, "You know what? I should upskill myself as well." So I started watching YouTube videos, um, and I became this part of this community, um, which was an OpenClaude Summit, which was happening in London. So I actually went there. Um, and then I came back and obviously I used Claude and Perplexity. So I started putting commands in Claude to show me how I can set it up. It did take me about four or five days, I'll be honest, and some crazy nights because I was taking screenshots from the terminal screen of Mac Mini. First, it took me two days to get a Mac Mini because everything was sold out. Then finally I got one, and then took screenshots of the terminal and used to put in Claude, and then do set up one at a time. So it took me nearly about four or five days to set it up. I think there are companies now out there who do it very, very quickly and they charge you a swaps, um, you know, small setup fees Um, and then there's been cutouts like, you know, I've set it up, then Nova just went off, and then I've gone back in and fixed it. So I'm still learning, I'll be honest. I do have my Claude projects which I work on. Um, but Nova is my day-to-day to go to, um, at the moment as well. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thanks for sharing that. Yeah. Across the, the broad range of businesses, how do you make decisions with that complexity? Mm. Many balls in the air, how do you know what the right way to go is in each of them? Yeah, look, I mean, uh, we... Again, it's the, it's the, it's the people who are involved in these businesses, and they will make... I've given them the power to make the decisions. And then when they come and have a discussion with me, that's when we will hopefully, uh... I mean, if they're not sure about a decision, then they will come and ha- maybe have a discussion with me. But it's very important for these guys to have that power to go and make these decisions and, and... Because if you don't give a founder or a director or a person who's working with you the power to decide, well, it's almost like, you know, you're getting somebody to work with no hands, right? So they need to be able to make the decisions, and then you should be able to support them. People are gonna make mistakes, and then you need to be able to trust the process with them. And, you know, if you've given them that power, then it's actually easier for me because they'll come once a week, we'll have a chat. If they will tell me the exact problem, and then my job is to solve that problem. So if they want help in sales, then I'll be opening doors for them in sales. If it's operations they need help with, then I'll find a way to get, um, you know, um, people in operations to be able to help them out, and vice versa. So there's so many elements in the business, you know. If they need some kind of product contracting or they need some person they're not able to find, which they need a contact with, well, that's where I come in. So I've got my network of business owners and everyone, which I'm really a part of, and I'm big on community play and, um, business clubs. So that's where I then, like, go and look for the right person who I can connect the person with the business owner. Yeah. A- and, and while, while we're talking about those business leaders, have you got some tips on selecting the right people for the roles? Well, I think it's, uh, the other way around. Those business leaders have actually selected me, so so, um, I think, uh, with all these businesses, so construction again, um, it was the person who started the construction company and wanted me to be a part of it. Um, real estate was the same. Um, Next is the fourth. Vinay was the one who saw the, um, scope and said, "Sal, we want to, you to lead the business." Then I've got the AI ones. I think the couple of businesses where I've invested, I would say, the, um, the AI-based- Um, programs which they're building today, the Air BLV one, and there's a itinerary builder as well. So those ones, the ones I look at for investment is I see how proactive and how persistent, um, the founder is. Because everybody will come and give you a pitch. Everybody will come and give you, um, you know, a pitch and say, "Okay, this is your X returns, and this is the kind of money we are looking at." But then when you push them back for, uh... and ask them the right questions, how they come back to you with answers and how persistent they are, that's my biggest winner. Because if the persistence is not there, if somebody comes and just pitches you, is they're only after the money. But people who keep following up, that's where you know that, okay, the founder's real. The founder really wants this to happen, and this is what they're gonna a- and, and of course then keeping them accountable as well. So you give them a small investment and then give them a timeline of, let's say, six months, and see if they've, um, you know, achieved that in six months, and then you make a decision to, you know, support them more. So that's my way to gauge where, um, you know, people are. You do wanna give them a small amount of maybe connections and money or investment, and then you see how they pan out in the next three to six months, and then you start pouring in more support, and then becoming a part of the company. There's just something I wanna, um, circle back to quickly before it drifts too far from the conversation. You sort of mentioned, um, a few times that you really kept really, um, great contact with a good network of people. For someone who might be tuning in right now who doesn't have that network but wants to be part of it, uh, what would be your advice for someone who needs to jump into that pool? How do you get there? How do you keep in touch? What conversations are you having? I would say the business clubs around, so every city has got these amazing business clubs which are coming in on play, and then, um, also your community sports clubs where your kids might be playing. I mean, with this AI generation, which I follow the AI generation because everything is becoming so AI-driven, you know, you don't know what's real, what's not real. I think community play will start holding a lot more value as we move on, because that's where your real connections are gonna be built. Um, so I'm part of a few clubs, a few sports clubs where my kid plays basketball. Um, I'm also part of certain sports teams where I support them, where I'm able to go and just have a chat to parents and families. There's some business clubs like, you know, um, CUB, One Life Club, where I'm... Or Forbes, where I'm also part of, where again, you know, there's events which I go to, have network, um, you know, with people, and that's how you s- keep increasing that circle. Um, and then, you know, there's always opportunities there where, you know, you can work with. But I think the biggest mistake people make is they start looking at the ROI on it from the day one. So they'll say, "Oh, I've joined this club, but how much business can I get out of it?" That's the wrong approach. You've gotta join these clubs and build those relationships. And then with the relationships, business will automatically flow eventually. Yes. Yeah, can't be the main driver, though. It's transactional. Yeah. No, that's great. Thanks. It, it's, it's a really good reframe, right? Yeah. Because you're right. So a lot of, a lot of people approach those, those groups with that, what can I get out of it? Gee, if I haven't made my money back in three months, six months, whatever, I'm out, kind of thing. And so that reframe to build relationship first, I mean, it's obvious and it's not new, but it's a really important reminder- Yeah of how you approach. And you're a great example of how that can come back to you tenfold down the line, you know, when things are tough. I mean, look at where you are now. That's- Absolutely. Absolutely. And, uh, I mean, today with Nexxis, we wanted to start these club programs- And all I did was I started picking up the phone and started contacting my old contacts and the business meetings I was doing with these clubs. And I'm- I've been surprised. Like, I've had an amazing take on that. Like, people wanna join. People wanna say, "Yep, we wanna partner with you to be able to reach, you know, restructure these club programs," and we offering them, you know, travel services. I mean, all of that just started lining up. And it And not only, uh, for my travel business, but even on, on my construction side as well. So I kept in touch with the guys I was very a- when I was very active in real estate about a few years ago. I kept in touch with everybody, and now when I call them and say, "Hey, you know, I'm looking... I've, I've started this construction company, you know, can I be a part of, uh, what you guys are doing?" I mean, they all jump on and they say, "Yep, let's have a coffee." And then we go out, and then automatically the business starts coming in. But it's taken a couple of years for that relationship to get warm for us to be able to have those conversations. I mean, if I go as a salesman and from day one, well, there's no difference then between me and a, and a, and a person who's just trying to sell something for some commission. Yeah. Absolutely. Post-COVID, um, many founders chase that growth, you know, at all costs- Yeah to make up for that lost time. Gotta get back. Gotta get back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Get back. Yeah. Whereas you took a different path. You closed up shop and went somewhere else. So can you talk us through why you made that decision? Well, honestly, I didn't have any other option because travel was completely shut down. And that's what I said, it was actually a biggest blessing I... Today, people ask me, I said, "It's the biggest blessing I had because it made me fearless." Um, I, I actually had to go to supermarkets to work because I was sitting at home. Everything was shut down, and we had no work, and all we were doing was binging on Netflix and just sitting at home. Um, and the only two jobs I remember you could get outside was either you worked in a supermarket or it was medical. Now, I'm not a medical professional, so the only thing left was supermarket. So when I came to this country about 20 years ago, my first job was at Coles, and I said, "You know what? Let me just... I just wanna get out of the house." So I took the 4:00 AM shift, uh, at the supermarket for the first four months Um, the only reason I did that was just to keep safe, you know, just to be able to go out there, talk to, uh, different people. And then from there the real estate thing happened. Um, and at that time I just wanted to get my arms around whatever I could get because there was no income coming in. So every dollar which was coming in was actually pretty good. Uh, and it, it actually f- made you feel good as well. Obviously, it makes you humble. Um, I can tell you that because I mean, I remember my first day in Coles, I went, um, wearing the red T-shirt and, um, there's a young, young kid who comes to me and says, "Oh, what are you doing here? I thought th- this is more of a young man's job." And I'm like, "Yeah, I know, but, uh, I'll just do whatever I have to do." So I was stacking the shelves. So, uh, and but there was so much learning out of it. Like, and when, um, you know, sitting with, um, you know, 20, 22-year-olds and seeing what their mindset was, it was just an amazing journey. And then from there to real estate. So it just helped me to become A, persistent, B, absolutely fearless today because I could go out and invest in certain businesses or take some risks and then in the back of my mind- I'm always like, "Okay, what worse will happen?" You know, if worse something happens, we'll build it back again. And that feel- that, that fearless attitude only comes once you've actually gone through that- Yes journey. Um, so yeah, no, it's absolutely important to be able to... When you're down and about, you are... I'll be- I was surprised at what other industries can do to you when you try and pivot out of the other- pivot to other industries. But then still stay true to your vision, which I had. So I, I wanted to build the biggest tourism company in Australia. Well, I'm still true to that vision. So those were steps to go back to, um, this vision again. So I took those steps so that I can go back to that vision. Yeah, absolutely. What would you say, you know, resilience, sustainable growth, what, what does that look like for you now versus what it looked like for you before you went through that experience? I think I've just become a little bit, a, a bit more wi- wiser now. So, um, uh, the resilience and persistence is still there because, um, I think it's easy to grow up to $20 to $30 million in revenue, but after that, that scale from 30 to 100 is, is, is a big jump, and then from 100 to 500 is an even bigger jump. Um, people say things get easier as you grow. I don't think so. I think it gets more har- It's get actually... It actually gets harder because the competition then starts knowing about you a lot more, and then they become aggressive as well. So as you grow, your competition is growing as well. Um, so the persistence element is... The, the... I think the scale of the persistence level has changed. Um, earlier it was more about starting, but now it's more about scaling. So the... It, it's every day it's about new ideas, how... what can we do better, what can we do different, um, and giving more power to my staff members out here, um, to be able to make those decisions for me and come back and say, "Okay, this is what we should do, um, to be able to scale to..." So everybody knows about the goal. We all have a central goal which we wanna achieve, and then everyone's working towards it. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Wow. So, so just on that, and I guess drilling down into it a little bit more, Suhail, um, Nexus, it operates globally, but you've built this really strong reputation for keeping things local in each market. How do you... I, I guess how do you maintain that local credibility and that community trust as you scale, especially in markets where relationships are everything? Because it... When things are small, it's easy. When you get really big, how do you still keep it small so the connection's still there? I think, um, again, having the right people. So- Um, for example, take Australia as an example where we are, um, I mean, we started scaling about a year and a half ago, um, started building those relationships. I started them and then now I, I then introduced-- started introducing my CFO. So we start looking at different areas and patterns where you can have the right people. So anything to do with, you know, hos- uh, hotels and, and tourism and, um, I have my product managers going out and building those relationships. So the events which they're, um, going and attending, you know, it's done by them. And then I've got my CFO and my operations guy who goes out and does more of industry meets. I go out and do more of business meets. So you need to have the right people who you can deploy these areas, um, to be able to take that. Like, you can't build it all, all by yourself. So you need people to be able to go for you as well and have the right people to have the right conversations in these areas. So the best way to do it is you divide your business into four parts. So you've got sales, operations, uh, product and finance. And then each of those divisions, um, if there are meets or communities which need, um, you know, engagement from each of those divisions, the leaders from these divisions actually go and, um, do those meetings. That- that's where we've seen a lot of success. Um, and then I would normally just go out on the top with the top CEOs and everyone to be able to build that relation from there Yeah. Right, so I'm, I'm curious a- about that part of your journey. Um, was there someone early in your life who taught you the importance of relationships in community, or is it kind of just something you've learned along the way? Uh, I think it's only come all by from COVID and what happened in COVID, to be honest. Um, I, I'll be honest, I, I'll lie if I say no, I, it was so- from the back of the journey. No, I mean, I was a... I came here as a student, studied, um, was working for a few companies, um, before I opened my first business, and that was my first business. Um, the first business really took off. You know, we had a lot of, um, you know, attraction from people around us, and we were doing so well and, and then suddenly everything stopped, so, and then people disappeared. Mm. Yes. Yes. And, but then, uh, and I would say we had to then start making efforts to be in touch with these people, and that's where it all changed. So I think it's over time, after COVID is what it's ch- it's taught me that relationships actually get you across a lot of things. Because when I started contacting these people, there were people, yes, who pushed back, but there were people who helped out as well. There were people who gave me the opportunity to be able to do whatever I wanted to do. So, and then slowly that built up to where I am today. I- it's an interesting insight, isn't it? Because we're in that age of AI where automate everything, get, get rid of humans, and yet, you know, and you're an AI guy as well, Suhel. So, and, and now you're saying but community and picking the right people is more important. So it's a, it's a really interesting, um- Well, you need to have a balance, right? And look, at the end of the day, when computers first came in, it's this, you know, everything went to a playing field, and AI is no, no different. So yes, people are losing their jobs today, and there's replacements of people and everything, but at the end of the day, the, the old handshake is still gonna be there. You cannot actually... So even to operate AI, you are gonna need people- You need people at the end of the day. Yes. I was, I was, I was talking to somebody actually yesterday, and a new job is going crazy in Australia at the moment. It's called the AI implementer. So the people are now hiring people inside c- like, in companies who are AI officers, and they specialize in coming into your business and see how efficiencies can be made. Now, that person has a team under them who will work in divisions. So you've got four departments, then you will have four different people. One person who understands finance will go and actually keep training AI, um, you know, regularly to be able to make that, um, department successful for you. Now, just like computers when they came, there was so much which was happening. New models were coming in. Well, that's happening with AI today as well. Every day there is a new release. So I believe the old handshake will never go away because that's where your connections will get built. All what AI will do is it'll give you more efficiency to do more work, and that's what it is. So even today, like, I've got my staff members. Some of my staff members, I've given them some AI packs to be able to help them out. And what we are seeing is that stuff which used to take them a couple of hours to do, they're able to do within 15 minutes. So their efficiency definitely has increased. My, um, you know, the way I can scale my business now is different. So I, I don't need a team of 100 people to make a $500 million company. I can probably build that in, you know, 50 people today. So that's what's changed. But, um, you would still need those 50 people. You still gonna need those 50 brains to run the AI as well and train the AI as well regularly The Business Game is proud to partner with HighLevel, the all-in-one CRM and marketing platform built for growing businesses. With CRM funnel, website and course builders, marketing automations, email builders, and so much more, HighLevel Software will drive your customer retention and your profits through the stratosphere. And HighLevel is fully white label, which means you can brand the platform and mobile app with your logo and company colors, and then resell it to your customers for a monthly subscription. Ready to go HighLevel? Click on the link below to begin your 14-day free trial. So, Bazil, business has shaped so much of your life and your story. How much has it shaped who you are as a family member and as a friend? Well, as a family member, I think my, my, my, my family's always complaining that I only talk about work. Um, but I try and keep some days to my kids. Um, I remember an incident about a year ago, my son, who plays basketball, said to me, "You're never there on my games on a Saturday." And I said, "Okay, you know what? Never again." So even then I was, I was actually working on real estate at the time, and I said... Put my foot down even though-- and we all know real estate is such a big day for Saturday. On Saturday, yeah. Yeah, Saturday is such a big day for real estate. And I said, "No, never again." So I, I did my... I would, I would send some of my, you know, uh, junior staff members to go and do, uh, openings for me, but I never missed a game after that. So, um, and then I still make it a point that every Saturday at least I go to his games. So I've tried... I, I'm, I'm becoming better at it, I'll be honest. I'm not there 100%, uh, but I'm, I'm... During at least dinner time or, um, you know, the, the games which I go and see with him, I'm, I'm actually started taking a, a bit more time. So it is challenging when you're always thinking about business and you've got so many businesses you're running. It just becomes naturally a part of you. You can never... I, I, I feel I can never have a conversation without putting business in it, and that's just me now. Um- But people around me who understand me, I think they know the intentions are what is pretty, uh, you know, I've got, I've got good intentions. And you know what? I've been... What I've noticed is I learn something from them, but they've started learning something from me as well. So that's how I've shaped myself. So people who say, you know, "You've gotta have a good life balance," and things like that, well, you know, if you're gonna have that life balance, unfortunately you will not be able to... You can, you can build the company to a certain level, but if you're crazy and you wanna go to the top, um, and, you know, build a billion-dollar company, then you've gotta be crazy, uh- Yeah uh, and- Gotta be a little mad and frantic, like what I am today. Yeah. Yeah. So, so just on that, Sahil, talk us through what does a typical day look like for you, and then how do you switch off? Oh, sorry. I didn't mean to make it so personal. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um, my friends and my family who has been listening to this, who will listen to this will all say, "Nah, this guy never switches off." Yeah. "He's always talking work." They call me even to ask me, "Hey, how are you going?" You know, just a general chitchat, and then after two minutes I'll be like, "Oh, did you see this?" And they're like, "Oh, I don't wanna talk about work." So- Yeah. I think a day looks like for me is, um, because there's the US offices as well, so I start at about early morning. About 6:00, um, is when I will get up. Um, you know, do my emails. I have a tendency of always looking at my phone and see if there's some urgent ones I can, um, send it out to. 8:00 Nova, my AI assistant, will send me all the emails and say, "Hey, do you wanna go and check these emails?" Um, and then I'll, I'll... One time I would have, um... There's, there's probably one time in the day where I don't touch my phone, is, um, I have a coffee with my wife. So I will sit... Every morning we'll sit down. I'll, I'll make the coffee. I have the privilege of making the coffee every morning. So I'll make the coffee, sit down with her and have a coffee, uh, and then just get ready for work and go to work. So, and then I'm in the office till about 6:00, 7:00 in the evening. Go back home, have dinner with kids, and then they go to sleep, and then I'll keep working till about midnight and then go back to sleep again. So- Wow that's a general day. In between, I'll get phone calls from friends. A lot of my friends complain, "You don't pick up the phone." And you- And I'll reply to my, "I'll call you back," and then I forget about it, and then two days later I'm like, "Shit, I didn't call him back." Then I have to pick up the phone and call him. But I'll lie if I say that, yeah, after having about two, three minutes on the phone or a conversation, the brain automatically sends in a business thing out there. So it'll be talking about how's your work going, and then certain suggestions come out. So I think people will find me boring like that. But, uh, but yeah, as I said, friends who know me very well, they stick around and they said, "No, they're okay. Well, he's crazy. It's okay." And my wife does a lot of heavy lifting, so she's maintaining all the relationships, so I'm blessed to have- Oh, nice. Yeah. That, that's a good answer, by the way- Yeah if she's listening. Yeah. So, yeah. So- If, if she wasn't there, people wouldn't be talking to me. Like now my, my childhood friends who are back in the country, if they wanna know what I'm doing, they actually call her. Yeah, right. So you guys having any plans to come this year? We go once in two, three years we go to India, so like, are, are you doing something or we planning to do something, do you wanna come? So they'll talk to her. They'll make the pl- I wouldn't even have a clue. Or, and then she will make sure she reminds me, "Make sure you're free on this Sunday. We need to go here." I'm like, "Okay." "Don't pick up an appointment." "Yep." And then every... the whole week she'll keep reminding me of that. She knows you well. So, yeah. So in amongst all of, all, all of that, um, busyness, I guess, is there something you would like to start doing or stop doing? At the moment, no. I, I, I just wanna keep the pace I'm going at. Um- Uh, and we'll just keep-- I, I just wanna keep building more and more. Um, if I could get more hours in the day, yes, 100%. Uh, do wanna get a little bit more organized with help of AI and my staff members around me. Uh, when I say organized, as in organize my day as to be able to spend more time with them. Um, but I think the, the momentum and the pace where I am today, I'm pretty comfortable, and I like being at that pace where, you know, every day there's something new happening with all these business units, and I can go and just make sure that everything is running smoothly. So, um, it's, it's, it's-- I take it as a challenge, and I think it's, it's that adrenaline rush at the moment which I wanna keep going until I can, uh, and then maybe, you know, slow down a bit once we've reached a certain number. I wanna get some clarity around, um, the AI native versus, um, AI assisted. So you described your new ventures as AI native, um, rather than the AI assisted. Could you break that down on what that actually means in practice? Yeah. So AI native obviously is more around-- it's when you start using AI, it's more native. You know, you're building your processes, you're going into AI, you're feeding into AI, and you're making it, making AI do things faster for you. Um, so the business, I think every business starts as an AI native anyway. And then you start, once you see the capabilities of what it can do, then you start building processes around it, and you actually get AI to build the processes, and you start running the business around. So I think we are at that stage with a couple of businesses which I own today. Um, you know, the, the Airbnb one, uh, which we are building. We're building this amazing platform where everything's gonna be AI-driven, where from, um, you know, loading your property to talking to the host, um, as well, and then after that, even once the host checks out, talking to cleaners, um, getting the cleaners in, um, doing the job, you know, paying their invoices. So the whole thing has been built around AI. So literally the founder, uh, oh sorry, not the founder, sorry, the, the Airbnb owner only has to look at his app and go, "Okay, yeah, this is good," and decide on what price they wanna put the, uh, property on. And that too, AI gives them suggestion that you've got an event happening in your area, your price is forty dollars price less, or it needs to be forty good dollars more or less. I mean, it gives you the entire suite for it. So we're building everything around that. On the other side, you come to the construction business side. Of course, in that we've only got automations around quoting part of it, which is the native where an email comes in, you know, a quote will be sent out quickly, but then the rest of the stuff is all done by, you know, humans because it's construction, right? So it's not that advanced, but now we are thinking of getting automations there as well. So I think everybody starts at that AI native area, but then after a while once you know what's happening, your brain automatically starts switching to what can I do to build around the AI rather than asking AI to build for me. Um, and then that- I think that shift is the native versus assisted, uh, conversation. And with that, are you-- when you say that it's AI, s- are you plugging into, like, Claude or... I think Claude's probably the, the hero at the moment for that sort of thing. Is that is that, is that what you're, you're what you're doing and you're plugging in, is, and using their, um, code? Yeah, that's correct. So I've got Claude, Perplexity. Um, so Perplexity is what I use for research. Uh, Claude is what I use to manage my projects. So each pr- each company is basically a project on its own. Uh, so all... So to, to do things faster, yes, everything goes on Claude. But we're doing one step better now. We are designing prototypes on Base44, which is- Oh, yes the app builder. Uh, so we build a prototype. For example, you know, I'm building the, um, Airbnb one, which I built the prototype, and now I've given it to developers to go and make it live. Similarly, we're doing with the construction thing as well to now think how can we make things quicker? How can we make things better? Um, so Claude is a good one to be able to get answers quickly, but then in the background you've gotta build something, um, around your ideas, and then give it to a developer in the end who's gonna make it, because I'm not an IT developer. So we bro- we go out, and I've got a team now finally which I have, um, you know, um, got from Upwork to build, build these apps for me. So they're the ones who are now building it, and I'm consistently in touch with them. Yeah. Great. Cool, I just thought that would... that's a nice thing to know. Um, so- A lot of entrepreneurs, you know, yeah, bolt AI into the existing workflows and wonder why it doesn't move the needle. What are the most common mistakes you see businesses making when they try to integrate AI? I think it's the same as, you know, people using everything and thinking what the ROI is. AI's got no ROI. AI is there to just help you, to give you a jet pack for you to do things quicker. Uh, but if you don't know what you want, you can- you'll be spending hours and hours on it. So I think the first thing has to be your vision has to be clear, and you need to know what you wanna do with the AI. Um, a lot of people are just, because it's such an amazing marketing, which they do as well, I mean, they're just downloading it, but they don't know what to do with it. So a lot of time first needs to go... My suggestion when you-- When I downloaded Claude, for example, I actually went through YouTube videos to see what it can actually do. Uh, I went through OpenClaw Summit, and then I w- came back and watched YouTube channels, and there's so much on YouTube today. Uh, you know, what OpenClaw could actually do, and then I could start thinking, okay, what if I use this with OpenClaw, which is Nova today? Um, you know, how can I build this? Like, how can I get Nova into my other businesses? So if I've now got WhatsApp groups with my key members in, in my businesses, where even when they get stuck, they send a WhatsApp message in that group. So A, I know what they're asking. B, there's no stupid questions. Nova will answer them exactly how I would. So but all of that happened because I actually spent time understanding what these things can do. So don't just download an AI app just because it's flashing on your screen again and again, and you go, "How-- What can I do with it?" It's an expensive tool. It costs you thousands of tokens, which turn into thousands of dollars. My suggestion always is download the thing, start using it, learn what's happening around you, what s- sort of new stuff is around. Uh, go onto YouTube, it's your best friend today. Understand what the system can actually do, and then go back and start using it. I mean, I was using Claude, um, but then somebody told me Perplexity is great with research. So I downloaded Perplexity, tried, you know, some research elements with it, and I actually found that the research was much better there. So now I use that for research. If I need a deep analysis of a market or a research, I go to Perplexity. But I could only do that because when I was watching those videos, you know, everybody s- kept mentioning that you need to use this tool for research. So we've gone back now and used that tool now. Is there a, a don't do around AI- Mm for business owners who are listening? Just don't do this, it's just gonna blow up or not gonna work. Yeah, good question. I think at the moment, um- I, I, as I said, I They Don't, don't do, like, don't download multiple apps and multiple AI systems. Use one. I think if you've Claude or ChatGPT or something, just use one initially. Try and learn the entire scope that they need, they have to offer, and then you can look at what other efficiencies you want. I think I, I met a b- I met a friend who's downloaded nearly about 10 or 12 different apps and paying subscription over the roof. Like, he's paying nearly about three to four grand just in subscription every month. Wow. Huh. But he's only using- Wow. He's only using two or three of them, but the rest of them he paid the subscription just because when he started using them, it prompted and said, "You've run out of credits," and he's gone and bought the whole year's subscription. And, and I understand it's happening with a lot of businesses today because, because it gets You want the answer now. It's like a world of knowledge in your palm, right? So you want the answer now, and you're in that mode, and you will just spend the money. It's that impulse buying. Definitely don't do that because you will end up spending so much money on these tools. Um, I mean, sometimes the bills will go more over 5, $10,000 and you'll be surprised going, "What the hell have I done?" And you get so addicted to it that you will go to it for everything. So you There's a thin line in between getting addicted to it and actually making it work for you. So download one, learn through the whole segment, go to YouTube and see what can it actually do rather than just going and downloading random stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. That's good advice. It's really interesting. All the people we've asked about AI, I don't think anyone has mentioned about being addicted to it. No, but you've, you've Yeah. Yeah. But it is. Yeah. It is. It is. I, I say today, and I'll be honest, I would lie if I wouldn't say that I didn't get addicted to it. I had to literally switch off my phone and my computer for a couple of days and then said, "I need a break from this," because it was getting so addictive. It's almost like people like me or people, uh, especially entrepreneurs, founders who want the knowledge, you've got the world of knowledge in your hands, right? Now, what you don't realize it, I would go to bed and I would message it and say, "Can you do this for me while I'm sleeping?" And it'll start doing it, but my brain as, uh, as I go to sleep will start saying, "Oh, do Let me just check what it's done so far." And I'll be like, "Forget-" And then you'll start keep sending it more and more messages. It's a great tool, but you do get addict- it's the biggest addiction right now, I think. And that's where, uh, as I said, download one, see it through, and then make it... There's a thin line between getting addicted to it and making it actually work for you. People who are addicted to it, I've met friends who are using it for everything. And when I say everything, they're using it for, where can I go and be- find a best deal on shopping? Like, even that sort of stuff they're putting it in AI and, and getting information from there. And that's not a good use. And- Yeah. And that's not the use for it, right? So, oh, how do I make a good coffee? How do I do this? Like, people are putting everything in it. Uh, find me a good deal on a, on a bag or something. Like, it's just so addictive because you've got every knowledge on your hand now. Yes. Um- And it's instant even basic email draft, email drafting, all right, I understand. But, um, you know, they're eating something and they'll be like, "Let me take a photo of this and send it. Can you do a diet plan for me?" Yes, the AI will do a diet plan for you, but how much are you gonna follow it? Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, and I've seen that addiction in a lot of people. So it's been used for the wrong reasons, and they end up spending tons and tons of money. Um, and it's, it's, it is today, I feel it's, it's a big, big addiction today. But you need to be able to find that line to be able to use it in the proper way in business and growth, rather than being addicted to it. Use it as a tool rather than a- Yeah a crutch. Yeah. It, it's a really interesting self-awareness/self-reflection thing, isn't it? Am I addicted to AI? I'm certainly thinking about- Yeah. I've, I've cert- Ouch found myself at nighttime going- Yeah I'm just gonna... Yeah. So I'm glad you- Wow brought that to my attention. Entrepreneurs, there you go. Yeah. You know, are you addicted to AI? Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm, big question. Yes. I, I think, and it's, it's a big one today. And I, I, I s- as I said, I became addict- So the day I downloaded Nova- I had her on my wha- so basically Nova is on my WhatsApp, right? I became so addicted to it that even at nighttime I'll just keep messaging, and she'll... Yes, she'll keep researching for me and keep coming back, but then I found, I'm like, "What the hell?" Like, I, this needs to stop. I can't sleep because, uh, you know, I'll keep asking questions. Yes, I was even asking questions only about my business. New business idea will pop, you know, in the head, I go, "Oh, you know, let me see what's the reach for this," you know, um, research about this business. In the usual case scenario, what would I would have done? I would have understood what the business is, seen what kind of finances I want to deploy to it, but just because now I have every... And maybe get an expert advice around my offices or my business owners who I work with. But now that I've got all the knowledge on my hand, all I'm doing is sending it to AI and seeing what c- should I be looking at this business? And then suddenly I found out that in the span of two weeks I had gone through AI and looked at seven or eight business ideas. I said, "This is, this needs to stop." Because all I'm doing is just basically stimulating my brain and going, "Oh, we c- maybe we can do this, maybe we can do this, maybe we can do this." Um, and it'll just... You'll come to a point where you'll just go crazy. Yes. Yeah. Wow. And, and you know, if, you know, I've noticed one more thing which is interesting one, is a l- what people don't realize is, so the AI learns from your pattern, right? So if you type to the AI, "I wanna build $100 billion company," it'll start talking like you after a while. It'll start telling you that, "Oh, you know, you could... This is $100 billion idea," and you get excited about it. But all it's doing is it knows how to stimulate, uh, you, and that's why it's sending you that, uh, message saying, "Oh, this is $100 billion idea," or, "This is a unicorn idea," just because everybody wants to build a unicorn today. So So we're almost ready for the, uh, quick-fire questions. Um, but I'd love to lean into your expertise for a moment, Sahil. So you're obviously at level five, um, so for any of our listeners who are sitting, say, at, you know, level two, level three today, what would you say is the single most important thing that they should put into place to ensure that their business is genuinely ready for the kind of massive, unexpected disruption you experienced? Oh, that's a tough one. Um, I think just building systems in place and safeguard, which I didn't do at my time. So always have, always work your numbers around worst case scenario, never the best case scenario. Because with worst case scenarios, you will learn, and you will always make sure that you are covered. If you're winning in the worst case scenario, um, a- area, then you know, it's a good business to be in because, you know, the world's moving so fast that the best case scenario is not always the case. Um, so if you're winning in the worst case as well, whenever I do my business ideas, numbers, or visibility around, you know, um, construction sites, occupancy, I always look at the worst case scenario. What's the worst case scenario, and can I handle it? Can I tackle the worst case scenario? And if you can, then we should be taking that risk. If you're not-- Because if, if a founder is at level two, they're probably at that level where they are thinking whether I should take a risk or whether I sh- I should do this, or I shouldn't do this, whether I, whether I should get an investor on board or I shouldn't, or whether I should start another or acquire a small business or shouldn't I. Look at what's the worst case scenario, what will happen. And if that worst case scenario you can handle, 100% go for it. And I never thought like that, even though, you know, there's millions of videos out there would say the same thing. Um, but implementing it in real life is very different. Uh, when I was-- When we, when, when, when your business is doing well and as a- founder, you're making money, you're making good profit out of it, you're in that high-fly mindset at that time, and that's where you miss- miss out. So it was the same with me and my wife. Like, we were on that high-fly mindset. We never thought, "Oh, what's gonna be the worst case?" 'Cause, you know, we- nobody ever thought... Yes, it was one, one in a, you know, century, um, uh, event which happened, but guess what? A lot of people actually survived that as well, but we couldn't. So we must have done something wrong. So acknowledging that was the biggest thing. So 100% work on worst-case scenario. If you're making money on worst-case scenario, take that risk, and that's how you'll get to the next level. Yeah. Wow. Mm. That's true. That's great advice. Yeah. Thank you for that. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So Hil, before we do get to quick fire, can we get the crystal ball out for a moment? And so looking at the next three to five years across all of your ventures, where do you see the biggest opportunity? Oh, I think the biggest one is, um, obviously Nexis, uh, is we- we're aiming it to be one of the biggest, um, tourism companies in the world. But the other one which I see... The other one which I see a big opportunity is the Airbnb, um, you know, software, which I'm building. So I think that will change the course around rentals and, um- You know, um, the short-term rentals as, as well as rentals. Um, and so, I... If, if you look at the portfolio which I have today, I've actually strategically placed it very well. Uh, I think I've done a good job, uh, personally. So I've got a construction one in there, which I know for 100%, even though the construction side is not gonna be affected with AI that much, as compared to what you've got, you know, the technology companies and the companies going away. So I've got a construction business in between, which is in the mix, which will keep going as it's going. Um, there's an Airbnb short-term rental unit, uh, software business. Then you've got the travel business, um, and so on and so forth. So we've got, uh, I- I've got a tea business, um, Om Tea, which is we sell tea to cafes and am, uh, on Amazon as well as Shopify, and that business has been doing really well as well, so there's opportunity there. So I've kind of spread it out into different sectors, but I do see a big opportunity around travel being always on the top, because I, I don't think so, unless another COVID happens, it'll stop. Um, and then the other one is the construction side of things too, and the Air- the construction and the Airbnb side will pretty much be working hand-in-hand because we're building for people, and then we are also asking them, "Look, if you wanna manage this as out of an Airbnb, here's the system to support it." Yeah. There you go. Mm-hmm. Wow. Very exciting. Nice. All right. Quick fire time? I think so. All righty. Okay, do you wanna take the lead? Yeah, all right. Sohil, what we do at the end of our, each of our sessions is to fire 10 quick questions at you alternately to get to know the person behind the microphone a little bit. So if you would like to answer the questions in a, a sentence or less, um, and we'll hit them, hit you with them very, very quickly. Yeah. So I'll go first? Yep. Yeah, okay. All right. So, Sohil, you ready? Yep. All right. You ready, Colleen? I'm ready. All right, let's go. So are you an office or work from home guy? Office What was your first job? Uh, as a waiter in La Puccina, Santiera, uh, uh, in an Italian restaurant. Oh, wow. All right. Uh, what's your go-to productivity hack? Um, f- uh, n- working in the, at nighttime when everyone's sleeping. Oh. Mm-hmm. Android or iPhone? Uh, Android at the moment. All right. What's your coffee order? Or it could be tea, if that's the case. Oh, no, no, no. It's a latte with almond milk. Ah. Ooh, nice. Yeah. Um, if you weren't doing what you do now, what career would you choose? Um, I've got five different, um- I know. uh, businesses. Uh, uh, I think I'll be a, a, a consultant, uh, for businesses. Mm, okay. What's the best investment you've ever made? Um, in... Best invest- Sorry, that's, that's... The best investment I've ever made, um, in my travel business, again, so my, my own travel business which I've made the biggest investment in, so I think that's the best one I've ever made. Yep. Mm-hmm. And I think we kinda know the answer to this. Uh, early riser or night owl? Yeah. Oh, both. Yeah. Night owl and early rise. I, I, I, I, I shouldn't say this proudly, and, um, I don't want anybody to follow this, um, it, because it does, it, it, it takes a toll on your health. Um, I do sleep only five hours, but I've been sleeping like that for the last 10 years now, that I can't actually sleep more than that now. So even if I try sleeping for six hours, I can't. I just wake up after five. Geez. There you go. Wow. Okay. One, what's one piece of tech you couldn't live without? Oh. At the moment? Um, WhatsApp. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, what's your book or podcast recommendation? Um, a, not, not, not a, not more of a reading guy. Uh, but podcasts as well, I look at the Raj Shamani, uh, podcast. A big fan of him. He does, um, you know, a lot of global stars. He gets in and does, uh, a lot of podcasting. So um, a big fan of him, and definitely go through, um, his podcast on a regular basis. Okay. All right. Awesome. Great. Thank you for that. Yeah. And our final question. If business truly is a game, Sahil Nechavan, what's your definition of winning? Oh. Um, I think persistence. Just keep going Mm-hmm. All right. Where can your, our, our listeners rather, find you online? Uh, on LinkedIn. I think that's the best way to connect with me is through... Um, yeah, I'm pretty active on LinkedIn as well, so 100%, uh, 100% LinkedIn. Yeah. All right. Great. Fantastic. Awesome. Thank you. Sahil, thank you so much for, for joining us. It's been such an enlightening discussion. I love that piece about the AI addiction- I- yeah 'cause we haven't heard that one before, even though, like I said, we so talk to so many people about AI, so. Yes. No, I'm glad you brought that to the surface. Yeah. It's an important conversation. Yeah. So thanks very much for your time today, Sahil. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, guys. All right. That's all we've got time for. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe to The Business Game, and check out the playlist for the level of business you're currently playing. Because every founder is somewhere on the game board, from zero all the way to $200 billion. Choose your level, and we'll see you next time