Rachel - Infertility, Adoption, and Surrogacy

This week, Rachel discusses her journey through infertility, adoption, and surrogacy, focusing on the emotional struggles and cultural stigmas she encountered. She discusses the importance of community support, coping mechanisms, and finding joy amidst the struggles of motherhood. Rachel emphasizes that motherhood transcends biological connections and encourages others to embrace their unique paths to parenthood.

To learn more about Rachel, visit her Threads, Instagram, or listen to her Podcast!

Takeaways

• Rachel's journey through infertility led her to explore adoption and surrogacy.
• Cultural stigmas around fertility can create immense pressure on women.
• Post-adoption depression is a real issue that needs more awareness.
• Community support is crucial for navigating the challenges of motherhood.
• Finding hobbies can help mothers reconnect with their identities.
• It's important to recognize that a baby won't fix all problems.
• Rachel emphasizes the need for open conversations about infertility.
• The experience of motherhood can be joyful despite the challenges faced.
• Breastfeeding can be a complex journey for adoptive mothers.
• Rachel encourages others to find their own paths to parenthood.

Sound Bites

• "I hit a slump after becoming a mom."
• "Motherhood goes beyond DNA."
• "You can find joy and still feel grief."

Transcript

Chelsea (00:01)
Welcome to Quiet Connection, a podcast dedicated to ending the stigma around postpartum mental health. I'm Chelsea. In this episode, I connected with Rachel, who shares her experience with infertility and the journey to building her family through surrogacy and adoption. She talks about the emotional difficulties, the pressures from cultural taboos, and the coexistence of grief and happiness. By creating her own community and finding support when she needed it most,

Rachel learned that motherhood is more than just biology. Here's Rachel's story.

Chelsea (00:37)
Hello, today I'm here with Rachel. Rachel, how are you?

Rachel Mangahas (00:42)
I'm doing well, thank you. Excited to be here and nervous as we just talked about.

Chelsea (00:45)
Thank you. Yes. Always get nervous for some

reason. We are both podcasters and it doesn't matter how many times you do this like that. As soon as you are getting ready to hit record, it's like butterflies. Yeah. But anyway,

Rachel Mangahas (00:51)
Mm -hmm.

Yep. Yep. Yeah.

Chelsea (01:02)
would love it if you could sort of introduce yourself and let us know who was Rachel before Rachel was a mom.

Rachel Mangahas (01:02)
Bye!

I was born in Canada. so before mom Rachel was, I was a Canadian and very much used to snow and weather and all that stuff. And I still ramble on it about, like, you know, going to school and like a snow suit and just kind of telling my kids how easy they have it now.

Chelsea (01:12)
yes.

You

Rachel Mangahas (01:32)
When you go to school, all you do is slap on a backpack and maybe a sweatshirt. But, you know, mom had to go in full uniform of like a snow suit. but before that, yeah. So yes, grew up in Canada, then moved over to the U S and, yeah. So before, being a mom, just, you know, I don't know who was I really just doing life as a 20 year old.

Chelsea (01:41)
Yeah.

Hahaha

Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (02:00)
Yeah, just really like I was living in Southern California with my husband and we were totally just doing life, like doing the whole, you know, getting married and, pursuing our careers big time. And then, you know, we finally sat down and was like, let's have a family. what's funny though, I tell this story too, is that had told us that they're like, you know what, after you get married, you should wait a year and enjoy being married. And it's...

Chelsea (02:23)
Mm.

Rachel Mangahas (02:24)
Naively, I was like, yeah, you're right. Like I should party it up and I should be, should be doing all the things. And then, we waited a full year and then we got into trying for another full year. So that's two years come to find out, we were like, okay, nothing's working. You know, I think we even tried ovulation sticks and stuff like that. And I was like, okay, maybe we should go see a doctor. And sure enough, I have ovaries the age of like, what was like 20 or 25 years older than I was.

Chelsea (02:52)
wow.

Rachel Mangahas (02:53)
Yeah, but they didn't find that out until like I got a second opinion. They were more like focusing on my husband. So we had male factor infertility. And so she would, you know, they were doing all the tests and then he was doing everything that he could to like increase the quality of his sperm. And so not fun. I think, you know, being, and I talk about it lot too, is like being in our twenties, it was like not.

Chelsea (03:02)
Okay.

Rachel Mangahas (03:19)
Ideal, right? Like we were very much very social butterflies. We like to go out and we like to eat junk food and drink and stay out. And so it was like, so no more alcohol and no more, no more staying up and, you know, focus on sleep and, know, just all the things that, you know, you try to, I think that really got to us. I think we went in waves, right? Like we're really, really good. And it was like, I need to like, you know, you just wanted, I think that's a lot of, I see that commonly with like clients now is like,

Chelsea (03:20)
Yeah.

my gosh, yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (03:48)
It's just so much pressure to be perfect, right? You have to get your life perfect in order for this baby to come. Anyways, so we did IVF once and then, or like a couple, you know, we did one stint. I'm saying it once because I did it a second time, a completely different time. we did, it didn't work. And so we were just like hitting a wall and I was like, you know what? I've always wanted to adopt. So

You know, I was like, but what's funny is I've never told my husband that.

Chelsea (04:19)
Like

still you hadn't told your husband that or like, okay.

Rachel Mangahas (04:22)
hadn't at that time I hadn't. no,

we've adopted, so mom Rachel now has four kids, two adopted and two that are going to be a surrogacy.

Chelsea (04:32)
I

was like, wow, that's an interesting...

Rachel Mangahas (04:35)
we were doing the IVF and I was just like, you we did though, I do the whole thing. You did the whole thing of just like, you know what? I'm done. I'm just going to take a break. Let's just take, let's just focus back on life. And we, obviously I started thinking about it I was like, you know, I always wanted to, so I should ask him, right? I was like, maybe he should be on board if I want to do this. And so I asked him and sure. And I'm like crossing my fingers. like, I hope he doesn't want to like, hope he doesn't say no. Cause then to me, I'm like,

Chelsea (04:52)
Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (05:03)
What am I going to do with that? You know, like if I was, I was almost pretty much set on so I think that's a tough thing for, you know, conversations when people are facing infertility and it's like one wants to and one doesn't. But he sure enough was just like, yeah, I'm on board. And like literally our lives changed after that. was like, fast forward. We were in South Korea adopting our first son. he came home at 18 months was a whirlwind because.

And I think this is gonna touch on a lot of more of like what your topics are with postpartum, right? Like we went it straight into first time parents to a toddler. We didn't even get the like newborn and it's just quiet. I mean like, yes, newborn stage is hard. I get that. Like I've experienced it myself with the twins, but it's like when you're straight into a toddler who knows his, you know, he has his preferences, he can talk, he can run.

Chelsea (05:39)
Yeah.

Yeah

Rachel Mangahas (05:59)
He can walk, run, do all these things. You're just kind of like, man. It was a very interesting christening into motherhood. But talking about support afterwards, I think I hit a slump. I thought I was, obviously we all think we're ready for motherhood, we're ready, we're ready, and we're there. The transition alone is big. Trying to get him to sleep was like.

You know, it was also scary because you know that he was dealing with trauma. I mean, you know, like having been separated from a foster care family, a foster family that they stay with for about like the first year of their lives. And I was just like, I don't know, is he crying? Because he's, you know, like, you don't know, like, is he crying because he's going through all the trauma or he's just crying because he's just a kid, you know, a bait, like a toddler. So a lot of that, you know, we didn't have much support there, you know, like, and I think

Chelsea (06:30)
Mm.

Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (06:56)
I definitely hit a lot of, I know it's not like total postpartum because it's, you know, in terms of the hormones, right? It's not present in that sense because I didn't carry him, but I think there's a lack of support for like post adoption depression. Cause it's like, I think I definitely was just like, I, you know, I'm not bonding with him the way I thought I would. Yeah. I'm overthinking everything, every little move he makes every, you know,

Chelsea (07:13)
Yep.

Rachel Mangahas (07:25)
thing that upsets him. I'm like, my gosh, he's going through grief. How do I, how do I fix it for him? You know, like I don't, and you know, some of it was just like, had to, that's when I really leaned on my adoptive community, family community that I had built and was just like, what's normal? What's that? And a lot of them were just like, look, we're never really going to know, but you know, you, you overthinking it is just going to make it like you're going to, you know, it was more detrimental to my own mental health, right? Like I was,

Chelsea (07:28)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (07:55)
I was definitely going through a so that's just part of that part, my one kid. And then we then moved into, we then moved up north. So at that time we were in Southern California, I moved up north and then I tried IVF again, cause I was like, you know what, we're settled. We kind of got the hang of it finally, you know? And we moved up here for my husband's job and then.

Chelsea (08:03)
Yeah!

Rachel Mangahas (08:21)
we went at it again, but found like an exceptional doctor here. So I think with IVF, like I always talk about, like all fertility doctors are not made the same. Like this one that I found in the Bay area was so much more supportive, less like of just like a, you know, just turning like client, like they were like a numbers game pretty much. And she was the best. so went down that route, but that was hard because it almost felt like.

I almost don't even know, I equate it to secondary infertility, because it's like I have a kid at home, but then I'm dealing with infertility still, and all those feelings and stresses of just trying to be a good mom to him, but also trying for another baby. then it was a dark time, I will have to say, yeah. And so I do wish that support for adoptive mothers was like.

Chelsea (09:05)
Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (09:13)
there was more of it, right? Or maybe more talk of it. And that's kind of why I like to share this because I don't know how, you know, I think when we are going through the adoption route, we meet the adoptive families and we're just kind of like doing our you know, don't hear it as much. Like you hear a lot more of IVF and you know, either that being a success or not or whatever. But I think the adoption part, cause I think with IVF too, like for us, it then kind of progressed into surrogacy.

Chelsea (09:31)
Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (09:40)
So I think that's another thing that is more talked about, but the adoption part is hard. but so that whole stint was pretty, it was a lot more successful cause we got the one and we had two embryos that came of it. But for my story, it was like, my constant thing was I went in through so many egg retrievals just to wake up to be like, none, you know, zero or like, yeah, it was, it was the worst. was like, he woke up and it was like, we got two or we got.

Chelsea (10:02)
Ugh. Yeah.

Ugh.

Rachel Mangahas (10:10)
three and then you know

Chelsea (10:12)
Ugh.

Rachel Mangahas (10:12)
the process. It's like you don't know how many days are going to survive. They have to watch it. They have to do all the testing and then you're just like, okay, we made it with one. So I think two separate instances, had the two embryos that made it and then transferred one didn't work. And so I was just completely devastated and I just said the next one just put on ice because I can't deal.

Chelsea (10:35)
Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (10:38)
doing a lot of healing and figuring out like, you know, just kind of processing more so like what had happened. I like, it's my time. You know, this is a big signal that I need to take care of my son. Like he's still home. He's still little. Like enjoy the time with him. Cause like, I think we were, when I was doing the IVF, was just like, was, you know, was moody. I was hormonal. I was all things. And I was like, this sucks for him. Like it sucks for me to know that like I had so much mom guilt of just like,

Chelsea (10:57)
Yeah!

Rachel Mangahas (11:04)
I'm a first time mom and here I am just like upset all the time and grumpy and tired and all these things. I'm like, I want to be with him like and hang out and hang out. You know what I mean?

Chelsea (11:16)
I totally know what mean.

Rachel Mangahas (11:17)
hang with it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That's kind of what that's exactly how I was picturing that. OK. Yeah. So yeah. my God. But yeah. So I think once I had a good turnaround then we adopted again. We went in and we went and because the embryo that I lost was a girl I was like really set on having like the boy girl. So was like we're getting a girl. We're going to do this. And

Chelsea (11:18)
I just want to chill with my toddler. Because that's what toddlers are really good at, chilling.

Rachel Mangahas (11:44)
Yeah, so we went ahead and did that and did the same country, so South Korea. She came home a little younger. She was 15 months old when we picked her up. And so that was in itself a very big journey. But I think having gone through it once, like anything, you're just like, kind of know what to expect. know what it almost felt normal, right? Like the IVF was just so big too. And I was like, finally something I know what's going to happen. And like, I know what to do and expect. And I know how to like, you know, when she comes home, I know all the things like, cause we.

did a lot of like bonding strategies and you know try to do all those types of things with our first our son made it easier to go through the adoption again so when she was home all was good and I told my husband our long conversation like a conversation from years ago is always how many kids right everyone starts with that and so he says he asked me how many I want I was like five

he's like, no, that's not happening, right? Like, no, you're insane. And I like, I just, I think me, I just always wanted a big family. And at first, obviously, like with IVF I was like, I gave that up, technically. Like I kind of let it go temporarily, because I'm like, that's not going to happen, right? But then when we were reassessing the embryo, we're like, okay, I kind of want to adopt again, because that would just, you know, I just, like I said, it just felt like, you know, it was just a great process.

Chelsea (12:44)
Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (13:04)
And it's just a special way we've been growing our family, so it's like, why not? But then my husband's like, well, wait a second, if we adopt again, I think it was more of like, was very unsure of what would happen with the embryo. So I was like, well, I'm trying to protect myself, like if the embryo doesn't work, we already have, like it was horrible. But he's like, no, but what if it sticks? Then we have four. And then I was like, yeah, okay. Well, I guess we should just try the embryo first and see.

so we go to that decision because he wanted only three. think our agreed number was three and because it was in the middle, so it's a quote unquote middle. Yeah, it was a little bit of a compromise. so we go into the embryo discussion with our fertility doctor and she was just like, well, you know, given your history and all these things and you, you know, your circumstances, like you have two kids, you're a full -time job, like you're working full -time. What about surrogacy? And I was like, like, come on, you know.

Chelsea (13:43)
was a compromise.

Rachel Mangahas (14:03)
I was just more like, when am gonna catch a bone here of like, I can get pregnant, right? Like I think it was as someone that's faced infertility and yet still, like I think it's still, there's moments still tight, like I just say it all the time, like I'm human, there are times where I'm just like, why can't I just, why don't I get that experience, you know? And it's, have an answer, but it's okay to be frustrated about it. So I think that conversation was just like, well what do mean, like I can't.

Chelsea (14:08)
Yeah.

Absolutely.

Rachel Mangahas (14:32)
We really, and this is what I always advise other people now too, is that like talk it through like based on your circumstances, like what it would really, really look like if you did try. So for us, if we did want to really try, like if my priority was to get pregnant versus just bringing a baby home, they're like, your better outcomes are surrogacy if you want to just be a baby to come home. But if you absolutely like must, must experience pregnancy.

here's what you have to do. And it was like a full protocol of like, I think it was like two to three weeks prior, I would have to go in almost four days a week maybe to do like this intravenous intralipid. I think it just helps the natural killer cells. I don't know if you know that, but like, yeah. I mean, I might even be saying it all wrong. So whoever's listening, you know, like.

Chelsea (15:18)
little bit, but...

Rachel Mangahas (15:25)
You may resonate, some people do, they're like, yeah, natural killer cells. And sometimes I'm like, is that the right term? But yeah, it's supposed to help so that everything can implant nicely. think it's like, usually when the embryos transferred, sometimes there's the natural killers cells that kind of just like eat it all off. So there's ways to like get that to, just to tame them down, you know, from just being so crazy in there. So she's like, you'd have to go so many times like.

Chelsea (15:43)
Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (15:53)
throughout the day and she's, was like, well, how many hours would I have to be there in a day? She's like, well, you know, probably tops an hour, but some depends on your body. And some people, some people might sit there for four hours. I was like, I work though, and I have to commute and I have children. And so, and then she's like, and then after you do the transfer, you would just like up the amount of times you would go in to do this process. And I was like,

Chelsea (16:09)
Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (16:17)
And then, know, obviously then diet and like all these other things like it wasn't just that but it was like all these other things you got to do. And where I was working with a rheumatologist and everything and I was like, okay, let me breathe. Like let me, you know, I need to think about that. And of course, you know, I think my husband just said the same question again. He's like, well, if we just want the baby home like our, like we've adopted our first two, like what's any different, you know what mean? I think afterwards perspective wise, were like, I mean, we didn't know who carried.

Chelsea (16:20)
Hmm?

Yeah, yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (16:47)
Our two

first ones, I mean, because we'll, clarify. We did international adoption. that one, that program specifically is closed versus open adoptions, which are, which are a little more common here, like in the U S or, you know, domestically. so it was closed. So we didn't know the birth parents. And I was like, and in this case, I was like, this is genetically ours and we'd get to pick a surrogate and we get to be part of the process.

and so was like, I don't know why I totally over thought that, you know, in the end, obviously I had to, I was grieving that like, I thought this was gonna be my shot, you know, to get pregnant. But so I had to kind of re reprocess that, right? Like I had to regrieve that I felt like I was like, okay, I kind of got over it. Then I expected it again. And then I had to let it go again. And so that was pretty frustrating. so we go ahead and go through it.

Chelsea (17:23)
Right.

Rachel Mangahas (17:40)
surrogacy, I mean, I think with any option, right, everyone's always like, just adopt, just do surrogacy, just do all these things. And then, you know, I'm, I'm guilty of that too, because I was like, okay, I picked surrogacy, we're good, let's go, you know? And then sure enough, hiccups happen, like setbacks happen, things happen. We found a surrogate, all was good. And then until things weren't, and then I was like, wait, what?

Chelsea (17:54)
Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (18:08)
Where did the wires get crossed here, you know? And I've heard other stories that are even worse, and it's baffling, but it's lot to process. But anyways, I think it's because if you have to switch, you literally have to go through the same process. So it resets the thing. You have to re -interview a bunch of people. They ask so many questions that nobody ever talks about. You're never like, I'm gonna start a family. Should we ask about all these?

Chelsea (18:11)
Yeah.

I don't know! don't - yeah, I was -

Rachel Mangahas (18:37)
questions, you know, like, hey, you like,

Chelsea (18:39)
Yeah!

Rachel Mangahas (18:39)
what would you think of a surrogate did this, this and this? And I'm like, I don't know, like, never thought about that. I don't know what I'm okay with. And so that's really daunting in itself. But also when you have an experience where you had to let go of this one other surrogate, which was hard, I was like, well, how do I know now? Like the next one's better, right? You know what I mean? Cause like she seemed great when we first started. And so.

Chelsea (18:45)
Yeah.

Right.

Rachel Mangahas (19:03)
You know, working with the doctor, my fertility doctor, same one that I love, Dr. Amy. Working with her, but also talking with the agencies and just being like, okay, what do you, like getting thoughts from the people that do this more often. And so finally picked the one after, and I think, well, I was going to mention that what sucks too is, you know, you lose a lot of money. This is all very expensive.

Chelsea (19:17)
Yeah.

Well, yeah, it's expensive.

Rachel Mangahas (19:29)
Yeah, because you're paying for their medications, you're paying that, like it's just agents, like all the fees just start to add up and you're just like, and that's not a common thing that people have resources to. So that's where I think it's so tough with infertility is like, what if you don't have a savings? Like what if you, what if you tap down your savings, you know, like now what? It's, impossible sometimes. we find our new surrogate and then things go great.

Chelsea (19:45)
Yeah?

Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (19:55)
And it's funny because my husband and I, we were between two of them and I was like, my gut's telling me this is the one. And he's like, no, I think I liked the other one. And I was like, sorry dude, like not today. After what happened, I was like, I'm going with my gut here. And sure enough, she was great. Like it was, you look for things like, is she responsive? she, yeah, I think that that was maybe our one thing, was communication. Because the other one was kind of like.

you wouldn't shoot you'd text her message her and you wouldn't hear for a while and you're just kind of like, okay, look, do you know what you're doing? Like what's happening? You know, like, so ours was, amazing. She would always keep us up to date with appointments. I didn't even have to ask half the time. And, when it all happened though, we like the, news, I guess what happened is a story I love to tell us. Cause we went, right before COVID.

Chelsea (20:28)
Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (20:46)
went to the Philippines and we were there for a wedding. So it's great. And all the news about COVID starting to happen. And in the Philippines, we were experiencing volcanoes erupting. And I was like, what in the world is happening? And it was like, I don't know, my mom's texting me. She's like, you got to be careful of the coronavirus. And I was like, no, you're overdoing this.

Chelsea (20:54)
Mmm, yeah.

my god.

before any of us had any clue. Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (21:10)
Yeah, no, yeah, so before any

of before it all settled in I was just like she's just worried again, you know? Anyway, so we're in the heart to our hotel. We're like, okay We have to do our first ultrasound to see if the it's stuck And we're like cool

and we're just FaceTiming and we're in this like hotel in the Philippines and the Wi -Fi is just like spotty as heck. Like and it was 4 a maybe our time and we had gone drinking and so we were like not in the best capacity.

Chelsea (21:35)
my god.

Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (21:42)
And I was like, okay, stay awake, stay awake, stay awake. Let's do this, we can do this. And so the audio's off, I think, because of the Wi -Fi or something happened. And so we're just watching. And then you just see like the technician circle, and then she like backspaces and then circles again. And she goes, she circles and goes baby A, and then she backspaces and then she circles again and goes baby B. And then we're like, I was like, Albert, my husband, I was like, I think there's two.

Like she put baby Amy, baby B and he goes, he goes, no, no, no. He's, you know, we're still hungover. So he's just like, they made a mistake. Don't worry about it. You know, they make mistakes all the time. I'm sure like, it's okay. She just backs, this is what backspace is for. I was like, no, that's not, I was like, I'm, feel it in my gut. And I was like panicking. So I stayed awake the whole time. Cause everybody, I think everyone was still, I think their day had ended.

Chelsea (22:11)
my god.

You

Rachel Mangahas (22:38)
And so we had to like literally wait a whole like day for them to answer. Cause I think after that, my surrogate, she had, you know, they, think they, the technician sends everything over to the fertility doctor to confirm what it all looks like and what, what's, what is, what's going on. So they can't tell us over the phone. So we literally had to, so I'm just Googling like, can an embryo split? And then you, I'm finding out that yes, yes, it's, it's rare, but also very common with

Chelsea (22:57)
Yeah.

my god.

Rachel Mangahas (23:08)
frozen embryos. have more of a common, it's more, a little more common for them to split or a higher chance, I guess I should say. There are higher, there's a higher chance they will split. And I'm like, my gosh. And so, you know, we're just waiting and the doctor's like, yep, it's sure. then actually before we talked to her doctor, I talked to my surrogate. She's like, we put one, right? I was like, we only had one girl. Yeah. I think it was, I think it was a shock. All of us were just in shock. She was in shock. We were in shock. And I was like,

Chelsea (23:35)
Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (23:37)
I was like, are you okay? Like, are you gonna be okay if it's twins? And she's like, but are you gonna be okay?

And so we get the call from the doctor. I think we're on three, like a, you know, joint call. And then she's like, yep, there's twins in there. And I was like, my God. And so it was so hard to like not keep that to ourselves. We were with like family and stuff. So it was really exciting news to share, but that was most of our journey. And so now we have the four kids, two twin boys, the embryo was the two boys. And then my son and daughter who are from

Chelsea (24:05)
Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (24:12)
South Korea. And so it's just been a wild ride now. They're all older now. it's third. My ages are 10, seven. We just had birthdays. So I'm trying to remember 10, seven and four, 10, seven and four. And it is a crazy house right now.

Chelsea (24:28)
was gonna say, it

sounds like a busy house.

Rachel Mangahas (24:34)
Yeah, so it's just it's been a wild ride but like I love to share it because obviously I just I have fun sharing it like I think I try to just do that so that people know that like everyone's story is different and there still can be found joy can still be found within different ways of building and creating your family and yet that's also still paired with the you know the sadness and grief over

Chelsea (24:35)
Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (25:00)
as a woman not being able to experience pregnancy, carry your child. But you find, you learn and find new ways to support yourself, but also tell yourself more empowering truths of like, but I get to be their mom and I get to do all the mom things. And I think that's a common thing that I say now is that motherhood goes beyond DNA. Like, yes, there's the connection points of genetically looking the same and maybe also, you know, knowing

Chelsea (25:22)
Mm -hmm.

Rachel Mangahas (25:30)
you know, it's gonna, it's gonna not be great when, you know, like we don't know much of our, the birth parents, like health history and stuff. So that's kind of the hard part, but aside from that, like it also just kind of pushes you to like really, you know, how we always talk about with kids and you have kids too. So it's always like, you know, you know, celebrating your individuality and just like who you are as a person. So I think, you know, but we find connection points in different ways. I think I just put a threads post up being like,

Chelsea (25:38)
Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (25:59)
There are people that actually tell me that my daughter looks like me. And then I'm like, I think it's true in a sense because there's like, there's similarities there. we're both Asians. So people I think that are not Asian sometimes just like, Asians are Asian. So until, but it's funny that there's a difference there too, is where it's like, if I'm around a lot of Asians, they'll, they start and they're very upfront and they're just very like, you.

Chelsea (26:02)
Yes!

my god, yes!

Rachel Mangahas (26:28)
must be some, you know, they try to guess my ethnicity and then they'll be like, is dad a different one? Because she looks different. But otherwise people are just like, you guys are the same. And I'm like, you know, I think that comes from the whole nature versus nurture thing, right? Like, and I think in that threads pose, I even put like, you know, when people, when I start to notice her sassiness, I'm like, I need to cool it, you know, like, you know, like she's,

Chelsea (26:37)
Yeah.

Yes.

Rachel Mangahas (26:56)
kids, they're sponges, they learn, they're observing, they're watching, they're learning. And so there's a lot that you can still, you know, build on in terms of like relationship with your children, whether they're biological or not. And so I think it's just a powerful message to share with women who are struggling. And I know that there are some, you know, like that I've talked to just in sharing stories or also clients of just like,

how do you come to terms with the baby not being biological or like maybe half, you know, like, and I think even in my journey, was early on, so this is when they told me about my ovaries being old and I think I was still processing that and they were like, you can use an egg donor. And I was like, that feels weird. You know, like, no, you know, at that time I was like, I feel like maybe, like kind of felt like my husband was cheating on me. Like it was a different.

Chelsea (27:28)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (27:48)
woman, right? think...

Chelsea (27:49)
interesting yeah well that's not

talked about as often egg donation is not talked about as often as sperm donation is yeah

Rachel Mangahas (27:56)
That's true. That is really

true. Yeah, so it's kind of like, it's just, yeah, that's the kind of the way I had felt. And I was just like, and yeah, you're right, the sperm donation, because like a lot of same sex couples, yeah, everything. It's the, it's just a wild conversation because you're just, mean, now, obviously I don't think that. But it's not, you know, I'm sure what's scary though, right, is like.

Chelsea (28:08)
Yeah.

Ha

Rachel Mangahas (28:21)
I was scared to say that. People are scared to say things like that, because obviously I don't want to offend anybody. But it's also just like you're processing. just like, how do I actually feel about it? What does it mean to me? How does that look like after? And now I think same thing with my family, but other women that have done egg donation, I hear them all the time. just like, my baby's my baby. I look at that baby and I'm just like, I just love you.

Chelsea (28:47)
Yeah.

Yeah!

Rachel Mangahas (28:51)
It's you don't, all those worries kind of just somehow go away. And all you do is focus all your love and energy in protecting that baby, loving that baby, supporting that baby. And so I think that's just something that I feel like hopefully lands with, you know, with people that are going through infertility, it's just so it's just such a hard thing to wrap your head around when you're trying so hard to, yeah, to just,

to get pregnant. think we get focused on that. think that's kind of like, that's why I was talking about my part where the surrogacy versus pregnancy, was just like, like, I think we get so stuck on like the pregnancy part, but what part do you truly want? Do you want the pregnancy part? Like, yes, of course, all respect for if like that's the only way that you'd want it. And then, yeah, I mean, I think like if I was set on it, I probably would have tried it. Because I did.

Chelsea (29:19)
Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (29:47)
they really considered it. was like, okay, I can ask to go part time or I can just quit. And then and I was like, but then how do I pay for all of this?

Chelsea (29:52)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's so there's there's so many things

in your story that like, well, I do I want to I want to pick it apart a little bit because there's well, no, because there are so many things that even though I haven't experienced what you went through personally, there there are things that resonate. one one of the things is I heard you use the word but a lot like

Rachel Mangahas (30:17)
Yeah.

Chelsea (30:24)
this or but that and I wanted to sort of put that power back to you and say like, and it can be and so like, so so like

Rachel Mangahas (30:32)
Yeah.

Chelsea (30:34)
So I couldn't get pregnant so this but I adopted and and and I was really depressed but I was really happy because I had kids and it's like you can you can be depressed yeah you can be depressed and be grateful and be thankful and be happy you can be happy and sad you can be emotions are I need to see inside out too I mean yeah apparently that that really gets into that whole thing

Rachel Mangahas (30:38)
Yeah.

Be both. Yeah.

Yeah.

Me too!

Yeah

Chelsea (31:03)
But

the other thing that I want to touch on too is that like, there's so much, I love that there's so much levity in this conversation that we're having, while also talking about some really difficult things. Like you said from the get go, you always pictured yourself having a big family. You wanted to have, you wanted to have five kids and then you're, I mean, girl, more power to you.

Rachel Mangahas (31:04)
Yeah.

Mm.

Yes.

Like, I don't know what I was thinking, because I'm at four and I'm like, ugh.

Chelsea (31:31)
Yeah.

yes. So like, you have to process that and you have to grieve that. So yes, we can talk about it with, with levity and we can laugh about it now, but like, I'm sure there was, and there was a period of time in your journey that you were grieving the fact that you could not carry your own child. and even, and then again, see, I'm just like picking little things out. Like when you're talking about surrogacy and,

Rachel Mangahas (31:46)
Okay.

Mm -hmm.

Chelsea (31:58)
hearing you almost feel like you had to like justify how picky you were and I want to be like, girl, like this is your egg and this is your child and like, of course, like if it can't be in your body, you wanna, you wanna have some kind of like control over that. So, yeah, just, right?

Rachel Mangahas (32:07)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You're right, I do that a lot, yes. That is common. I

am like that, I am definitely just like I need to justify a lot of it. I'm like, okay, but no, this is, you know, so.

Chelsea (32:26)
Well, and no,

and it's not me. I'm not, I'm 100 % not like, I'm not a mental health professional. I'm not like lecturing you or anything. I wanna sort of, I wanna like...

Rachel Mangahas (32:33)
All of course, we don't know.

Chelsea (32:39)
give you that power back to be like, you know, like what you went through and what a lot of people went through. It is heavy and it is hard and you can find joy and you can laugh about it and you can end. what that proves to people who may be experiencing this right now or going through something like this right now is there, there's joy to be found. There is joy to be found. There's also a lot of crap. There's a lot of crap.

Rachel Mangahas (32:39)
Aw, I love that. Yeah.

Mm -hmm. Yep. Yeah.

Thank

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Yeah,

100%. And I think the one thing I wanted to mention too is that I think my story alone proves that yes, we all ultimately want a baby. But I think the misconception or we get lost in the go, go, go of all of it, of the timelines, the process, the cycles and all that, of this baby's gonna fix everything. Once this baby's here, I'm gonna be healed.

Like all those trauma that I just experienced, all gone once his baby's here, which is, yes, like I said, the worries kind of go away of just like, what you, the fears that you maybe were stewing about, not stewing is probably like a strong word, but like you had some fears that going into a certain process, say the egg donation or sperm donor, whatever it is, but they do kind of go away as you know, once the baby's here, but the problem, like the...

The anxiousness of, mean, at least from my own personal experience, we'll speak from there is that I'm still a very, I, know, obviously after being a mom, I was like, I feel like I've always had anxiety issues. just never realized it until mid month. I think I was in the middle of COVID. They were like, I think you have anxiety. Yeah. And they're like, cause I had like a panic attack where like.

Chelsea (34:09)
Yeah.

I think that happened to a lot of people during COVID.

Rachel Mangahas (34:27)
My chest was like, I had to go in for like to the ER for a cardio thing. And I was just like, but they're like, you're fine. You just had a panic attack. I was like, I just had a panic attack. what? I was like, okay, so now what do I do? So I think it's just, I think it's also flagging and it's hard to tell women that are currently in the throes of infertility in the trenches of it to be like.

Chelsea (34:37)
Yeah, don't put the word just in front of that. Like, yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (34:53)
address all your concerns now and you know, like it's more of just like an eye opening thing of just, you know, a baby won't fix everything. Like then you're gonna go into transitioning into a mom and have all those sleepless nights. And so if you were still, like I think with me specifically, right? Like we bring our first son home and I'm like, yes, baby, we're doing it. And then I'm like, but I still have these remnants of like, I didn't get to carry him and how does...

How does my family feel about it? Because being an Asian woman, Asian culture, it's like a stigma to talk about fertility and it was very big news for our family. everyone was very supportive in the end. was just, or even from the get -go, was, they were just overly excited. questions still come up because it's new to everybody. like, they're gonna ask questions because they don't know. then there comes me being defensive.

you know?" And I'm like, no Rachel, they don't know. That's why they're asking. Yeah, so just having that level of compassion and patience with family and getting their support. But they were supportive regardless, right? And they still are.

Chelsea (36:04)
I also appreciate you mentioning the stigma in the Asian community because that is another thing that is not often discussed. And really in the BIPOC community in general, the cultural stigmas that go along with fertility. Can you sort of elaborate on that just a little bit just for listeners?

Rachel Mangahas (36:06)
mention.

So.

Mm

Mm

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Yeah,

I mean, I think for Filipinos in general, like, or not in general, for me, I'm going to speak more from my point of view. And I think it does apply to other Asian cultures as well, is that if you can't become a mom, or if you can't, if your body is not, I think this is for everybody, but like, I think it really holds a lot of pressure for women that are Asian that like around us, we, we see everyone that can just naturally get pregnant. Like it's very, very rare.

Like I don't even know very many Asian people in my circle, extended circles, like no one's done surrogacy or adoption. The people that have started to consider it, only reach out to me because I'm the only other person, the only other Asian person they know. And they ask questions of just like, well, how did your parents take it? And I'm like, they're fine. Why, what happened with yours? And they're like, they don't accept it. They just don't. You know, like they're not supportive. They just tell us don't do anything at all then.

Chelsea (37:12)
Mm.

Mm.

Rachel Mangahas (37:23)
You know, like, it's like, I think this family wanted to adopt. So they were like, their family was just like, no, no adoption. You just don't have kids, you know? Yeah, if your body's not gonna do it. I think there just holds a lot of pressure that this, woman must be the, like you have to be the person that starts this family and bears the kids and all that. So I just feel like there's a very high expectation of just like Asian women in general to just like,

Chelsea (37:32)
That's just a belief that's held, like if your body is not gonna do it.

Rachel Mangahas (37:53)
do as you're supposed to from your elders. It's definitely a lot of pressure. Because I definitely felt that way. I was just like, I don't get it. What am I doing? Am I literally the only Asian woman that can't seem to have a kid? Because you don't, I see a lot of other women that can't, but I'm like, but they're not Asian. Is everyone just like a secret Asian supplement that I like? Did I miss something here?

Chelsea (38:16)
Yeah.

Ha ha ha!

missed this one.

Rachel Mangahas (38:23)
Yeah. You know, out of all the million supplements I took, they must have missed this one, you know? So yeah, so I just think, yeah, so I think it's a very rare thing. It's not talked about. You know, I think it almost feels like there's a negative connotation to it, right? Like it feels like, my God, like she, she can't, she can't, she can't. It's always like this whisper and you're like, what are, like, it's not, you know.

Chelsea (38:29)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (38:50)
everybody's body's different and I think they keep it hush hush and just even with like think just in terms of the ways families are like brought together. I don't know like in the Filipino culture everybody is just so easy like it's literally from the male perspective like even the male factor of fertility that was like way over our head like almost every guy we know in our extended extended extended circle like

We are friends with so many like Filipino, like different types of Asian backgrounds and like rarely any issues, you know, like, and if they, that's the thing is like, if they, if they're, if there are issues, no one's talking about it. And then publicly, they're not going to say it because like everybody's on social media. So if say like an Asian friend of mine was like, yeah, I'm experiencing infertility. You won't see it on their page. They're not going to talk about it because they don't want their parents to see it.

Chelsea (39:28)
No one's talking about it, yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (39:43)
because you don't know how their parents are going to see. And I've always heard of like, I'm just afraid to tell them. I don't know what they're going to say. They're going to just blame it on me. It's my fault. And that's the thing that like we hold that pressure that like I felt it too. Cause it was just like, well, you're just not eating right. You know, you have to, it's, turns into my fault where it's like infertility is a medical diagnosis. Like it's not, you know, I didn't just eat the wrong things and now I'm infertile.

Chelsea (39:48)
Mm. Mm.

Yeah. Yeah.

my God. Yes.

Rachel Mangahas (40:12)
I forgot the supplement, remember? Like, don't know. Someone

didn't give me that supplement, the vitamin, I don't know. So yeah, so just, I that's kind of, I don't know, a lengthy way of saying it, but yeah, it just turns into the woman's fault really if it's, and no one really looks into like, could it have been possibly on the male side? Because I think even my family, I think I felt like there were moments where I had mentioned it and they were just like, what?

Chelsea (40:34)
Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (40:40)
You know, like they didn't believe it, that like it was on his side and it was, it wasn't my fault. I was like, why does it have to be automatically my fault? But I think that's also common with anyone that's also not Asian, right? I think we put it on ourselves of like, but I think it's just that pressure. feel like it's not as accepted. I think with the Asian culture, it's like, there's only one way to do this. And if it's not going to be that way, we're not doing anything at all, you know? So.

Chelsea (40:45)
Yeah.

Yeah, no,

Rachel Mangahas (41:08)
And I don't know,

Chelsea (41:08)
but that's just.

Rachel Mangahas (41:10)
and some may take it to the religious extent, you know, it's like, think there are, think a lot of, you know, Filipinos, a lot of them are Catholic. And so a lot of it, then it turns into that, but I'm not going to go there because I don't like talking about it. It's too, no, we're going to, infertility is already a big enough rabbit hole of like, of emotions and stigmas and everything. So yeah, we'll keep it at that.

Chelsea (41:24)
I don't blame you, it's okay. That's a wormhole we are not gonna crawl down.

Yes.

Yeah, well, I just I appreciate you talking more about it though, because number one, I don't have up to this point, I don't have many guests who have gone through infertility to the extent that you have gone through it. So talking about that process is really important for people to hear. And then you are also the first

Rachel Mangahas (41:39)
Thank

Hmm

Good night.

Chelsea (42:00)
Filipino woman that had experiencing infertility that I have spoken to and but there are obviously It's not just you in the universe that's experiencing this so it's really important to me and I'm thankful to you that you talk about it because there's gonna be someone out there being like my god, it's not just my family like it's not just and it's not just me and I'm not just putting these expectations on myself like

Rachel Mangahas (42:01)
Mm

Yeah

Yeah.

Chelsea (42:29)
so I appreciate you bringing the cultural aspect into it.

Rachel Mangahas (42:30)
Okay. of course. Yeah.

Chelsea (42:36)
So again, thinking back to what you talked about and you did have support, like your family was supportive of you despite maybe some cultural differences. And even though you did experience obviously the grief of not being able to carry your own child and just everything attached to that, you did talk about doing a lot of work on yourself and doing a lot of work. So what did that look like? like did you?

Rachel Mangahas (42:43)
Yeah.

Okay.

with me.

Chelsea (43:03)
Were you seeing a therapist? Did you have some coping skills? Like what, what was that like for you?

Rachel Mangahas (43:08)
Yeah.

For me, God, it's all the things, right? So I think like, but one thing that really helped me and that I try to tap into a lot, but it's not, I mean, okay, I tap into a lot of it. I think it's like literally, it's like a mix, a melody of all of them. But it's definitely just being quick to recognize like, hey, I am flipping burnt out from just thinking about this damn thing. You know, like,

Chelsea (43:35)
Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (43:36)
overthinking IVF, trying to figure out all the supplements and being, you know, telling my husband, don't eat that shit. Cause we, it's not, you know, it's like crazy. Like you're not crazy. Whoever's listening, I'm just saying you start to feel like you're just hammering down on everybody and it's not fun. You know, you're like, I'm not the, you know, I don't like that version of myself. Whenever I recognize that it's like, okay, I need to take a step back. I need to just rest my brain from all of it. And so

Chelsea (43:43)
Yes!

Rachel Mangahas (44:04)
leaning into other things and I don't like the words. don't know, just saying self care always sounds, I don't know, maybe it's just overused. Like literally it's really for me, when I say rest, it's more of like turn off that the trying to figure it out things, you know, and like all the questions, it's like replacing them with something else. And so I think for me that in order to do that, I always tried to learn a new hobby. I always tried to do something different.

Chelsea (44:11)
I know.

Rachel Mangahas (44:33)
And so in the middle of the adoption phase, I was like, I need to do something. Like I, but I was like, I already go to the gym every so often. Like I wasn't like a gym rat or anything. Like I just, I'm familiar with it, right? Like I go, but I don't like, I'm not like, but I'm like, that's boring. You know, like it's not going to turn off my brain. I picked up aerial arts. I went into like, if you know that that's like think Cirque du Soleil, you know, the silks and all of that. I like.

Chelsea (44:44)
You

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah!

Rachel Mangahas (45:03)
You know, I was like, I'm just going to try a class. I literally started going like twice a week. I would drive all the way to LA from where I was, which was like a 45 minute drive. It became my life. it. So obviously it's hard to do that once you have kids, if like you're dealing with secondary infertility, because once my son did come home, that was hard to redo. So I think that's, but that's where I think that's where I struggle. Cause I was like, I need to find a hobby and that's the one I want to do, but I can't physically get there all the time. It was a mom built sets in, right? You're just like.

Chelsea (45:08)
my gosh.

Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (45:32)
You feel torn, you're like, well, I wanna do that because it's fun, but he's here and I should be here, you know? And I think even with adoption and all of that, my whole journey in general, it's like, I still to this day struggle, because I'm like, I wanted this so bad. I wanted this big family, but sometimes I'm sitting here like, what the fuck did I do?

Chelsea (45:54)
I think we all feel like that.

Rachel Mangahas (45:56)
Yeah,

I'm tired. You asked me who was Rachel before mom. I was like, I don't even know who I am right now.

What do I do outside of being a mom? know, so it's like literally you're re you're like it's like a whole rebirth of yourself. Like you're trying to you're evolving your all these things. So I think forcing yourself to find a new hobby like right now, I think for me. And so I did that a lot. And then I think I think that time when when did I I started therapy, but more seriously, I think around that time of the surrogacy, I think so it wasn't.

But I do suggest that like what I, it's almost like I wish that it was like an automatic thing. Like you start, become a mom, you look for that therapist right then and there. Just, yeah. Or here's one, or just like have it in the back court. Like do something to give yourself that added support that you don't have to think about because you know, there's no training on how to like figure out like, and with new moms, I always tell them, was like, the one thing I always advise you is like, if your mother -in -law or mom comes over and they ask to help.

Chelsea (46:36)
right? They just give you one.

Rachel Mangahas (46:58)
you tell them exactly what you want them to do. Like you tell them, I need you to do my dishes. I need you to do my laundry. I will be here with my baby on the rocking chair. You know, like, and I think that's, you know, or send me food, you know, like just cook me food and send it and drop it off in front of my door because there's no way I'm going to, you're going to look at me with my greasy hair. so yeah, so I think like definitely implementing things ahead of time helped like, and

Chelsea (47:07)
Yes.

Rachel Mangahas (47:27)
doing you hot, like trying to focus on a new hobby or something that you used to like. Cause with Ariel, like I got to a point where I was, I actually could perform. got like, I was like doing all the apparatuses. I was like really into it. And I still talk about it I'm just like, I wish I can get back into it. But I don't know now being close to my forties, I'm like, I don't know. Like I'm sure these women are probably well in their forties, but they probably they've been consistent. Right? So I'm like, I have not.

Chelsea (47:55)
Hey, if

pink can do it, you can do it.

Rachel Mangahas (47:57)
Yes.

I love pink. Yeah, she's amazing. So yeah, it's I mean, so I talk about that a lot because finding that new hobby just challenges you to, you know, learn about yourself. You do you end up being put in uncomfortable situations that you kind of your focus goes there where it's like, I kind of feel silly, you know, doing this and you kind of laugh at yourself, you know, all the things kind of soften.

Chelsea (48:00)
I know, I

Rachel Mangahas (48:20)
Right? Like you can laugh at yourself. You can you can start to recognize it. my God. Like I just learned a new skill. I did something different. And you kind of just regain your footing in a bit, in a sense. I think that's like the biggest thing is try to find some sort of like reset button for yourself that works. But yeah, so supporting myself with like obviously my husband and then friends was hard, but like.

Because I really truly felt like, because all my friends were Asian too, so was like, they just don't get it. And not to any discredit to them, they tried their best and I tried my best too. I tried to share and then I'm just like, that didn't land right. So finding community, I talk about that so much because you really have to find, it doesn't even have to be like giant community, just like a couple people that.

Chelsea (48:50)
Mm.

Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (49:12)
are in the same phase of life as you. So it's like even in motherhood, it's like, you you start to become friends with all the moms at school pretty much, know, like, around the Yeah, there you go. So there's ways, for the adoption one, like, I really found a community there. Like I talked to them every day. We were sharing all the wins, all the, you know, stuff we were irritated about and all that. And it's funny because then I went through...

Chelsea (49:20)
Yeah, or on threads.

Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (49:38)
I never found a community when I did IVF and I didn't find a community when I did surrogacy. And so I noticed the big difference. I'm like, I truly still felt alone. Even with surrogacy, even though I had my two kids, life was going and it was fine. And I was like, I should be fine is kind of what I thought. And I was like, but there's still questions, know? Like there's still things that I wish I had someone to be like, hey, when you did this, like, is this what happened? You know, like.

Chelsea (50:02)
Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (50:03)
And I didn't and I had my surrogate because she's done it before, I just sometimes I felt like crossing the line. Like, I don't know, do I ask her these questions or it depends on the question, but like it's not it's not the same as having someone else that's kind of been in your shoes. And so I think definitely it's the community part that made a difference because yeah, it still felt pretty lonely in the surrogacy route, even though I didn't have much.

issues going through it. that make sense? like.

Chelsea (50:32)
Yeah, that absolutely makes sense. like,

like you were in a good place, but you, but you, you didn't have that community. You didn't have a community to fall back on. Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (50:37)
Yeah, exactly, yeah.

Yeah. To relate to like

different, yeah. Just to relate and feel like, okay, I got this. Like, no, it's cool. Like we're all good. Like I met some people. and I will say I guess what's an overarching theme. Like you always, with infertility, you start to, you, you're afraid to let go of certain hopes and dreams. But then I think with mine, what, what kind of, I don't know, came to fruition or came to be, was that like, I would let go of certain

Hopes or just ideations or whatever I romanticized in my head. I kind of let some of those go, but I still experience a lot of it. So my example is that with surrogacy, I had met a mom. All right. I did a lot of reach out, so I would suggest like if anyone's ever going through this stuff, always reach out to like the agencies you're working with or people that you know that maybe haven't say like, do you know other people that I can connect to that are open to sharing their journeys? And so I found an a mom who did surrogacy.

She breastfed her twins. She induced lactation. And so I was like, hmm. You know, so given me who's like, OK, I like to do something here. I'm going to challenge my body. Let's do this.

Chelsea (51:41)
yes, yes.

my God,

yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (51:52)
So I, yeah, I tried, I even went into it's very embarrassing now that I've, don't think I've ever shared this. I should probably do a podcast episode of myself doing this, but I even, you know, I went to the, said you get the medical grade pump and you just like, you, you practice it. Like you prep your breasts pretty much to do it. And so I walk in and they're just like, but you're not.

pregnant and I was like, I know I'm gonna induce lactation. And so they're trying to like keep a straight face like, okay, yeah, let's let's do this. You know, like, I'm sure people I know, but it's fine. Like I, I, by this point, I feel like I've grown thick skin. I'm just like, whatever, I don't care. I'm doing this, you know. But yeah, so I think I'm well, I guess what I'm trying to say is that, you know, when you find your community, you start to learn more things and you start to

Chelsea (52:26)
my gosh. Yeah.

Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (52:43)
realize that things that you kind of let go of, like I let go of like the idea of ever breastfeeding, ever giving breast milk. So I didn't accomplish the breastfeeding because I think leading up to the twins being born, I recognize like, my poor two kids. I'm like, I'm sitting here at a pump for no, not for no reason, but like trying to do something that my body is not naturally doing. And you know, here they are like, mom, you want to play? And I'm like, I'm pumping. They're like, for what? And I'm like, this is such a difficult conversation.

Chelsea (53:12)
I can totally picture it too.

Rachel Mangahas (53:13)
Yeah,

so I'm like, you know what? I'll give it one more shot like for a couple days and if nothing's because I started to feel it like it was actually I think I was probably there but it started to hurt and so I was like, okay, maybe this is the brink of like the hurt it actually comes out because she she this woman she managed to do it. So it was like I think she teaches women and she's the one that kind of taught me like here's what you have to do. And so I know it's possible but

Chelsea (53:25)
Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (53:42)
given that again, circumstances, knowing your capacity, knowing what's your priorities in the moment and just being able to recognize that and take a step back and be like, okay, I'm obviously stretching myself like super thin here, you know, and I, you know, I want to be a good mom and you know, I want to get prepped, you start nesting and all these things like, what am I doing strapped to a pump? You know, like, and so anyway, fast forward, give it start and that,

Chelsea (53:55)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (54:10)
The surrogate, she gives me breast milk, which is fine, and that's great. And then I don't, I maybe I don't even know. I'd have to find out. I can't remember how I found this out, but there's a Facebook group with like local donor milk, like donations. And so I can't remember. I'm yeah, I'm going to have to see if it comes to my memory, but I found that and I was able to feed my, the twins breast milk for up to six months, which I never thought would ever happen.

Chelsea (54:23)
Yes. Yup.

Rachel Mangahas (54:38)
you know and then i found a couple friends that were actually in that group and i can't recall it i was like okay so you have no

Chelsea (54:46)
Can you help a sister out?

Rachel Mangahas (54:47)
Yeah, so like

I just literally drove around the Bay Area collecting breast milk and I it was during COVID so I was like Albert we have to buy a giant freezer because I have to store all this milk and that was a project in itself and so it's like I I tell people that because I'm just like look like It's something I never thought I'd ever do. You know, I never thought for one have four kids never thought I would you know, yeah

give any of my kids breast milk, know, it's like it's, you know, things, things surprise you, I guess, along the way. And you're just like, not all the time. Your dreams may still come to life just in a different way. And it's really the how that kind of just kind of molds and flows based on what's happening. But, you know, staying the course and trying to figure out your support system and finding ways to incorporate ways to just feel good about yourself. Like I think with the aerial example too, it's like,

That helped me remind me that my body is still, like my body is still a functioning body. Nothing's wrong with it. I am strong. I can do hard things. You know, all those things that's like, yeah, all the affirmations that just made me feel powerful physically. And it's like, it helped me kind of not, I was gonna say suppress, it wasn't suppressing it, but like heal that part of like, body's not working, you know? It's like.

Chelsea (55:51)
Yes.

All the affirmations. Yes.

Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (56:11)
Because I think in general you say, my body doesn't work the way it's supposed to. Of course it does. It's like, keeping you alive. You're doing all these things. And so it's definitely the whole expressing your, you know, practicing gratitude. I never got into journaling or meditating, but I think, I think talking things out for me really helped. So connection, connecting with people that I can relate with was like my, the best form for me. And then finding ways, like new hobbies and movement, you know, like now through moments of parenthood.

where I'm just like, I can't deal. You know, I do a lot of walking and I'm trying to figure out a new hobby, I guess I should say, too, is like something I'm trying to do again because, I don't know. It's just it's a lot. I hope I answer your question. I'm trying to think back if I missed anything. OK.

Chelsea (56:44)
Yeah.

You did! No, you did! You answered my question beautifully.

You - and you you kind of brought us full circle beautifully. well you did because - so what I want to highlight again, I highlighted it earlier, but you have this amazing way of finding the glimmers. Like, and and -

Rachel Mangahas (57:03)
You can't. Okay. yay.

Mm

Chelsea (57:21)
I for listeners who, don't know if you haven't listened to any of my episodes or if you're hiding under a rock, a glimmer is the opposite of a trigger. amidst things that were very, challenging for you and went and really challenged your vision of yourself and your future, you found joy and you're still finding joy and you...

Rachel Mangahas (57:25)
Thanks.

Mm

Chelsea (57:46)
You can laugh, because holy crap have we laughed a lot through this episode. I do too.

Rachel Mangahas (57:51)
I laugh a lot. It's like almost

every work setting I was ever in, or just I guess even my cousins are just like, we know when Rachel's around, you can hear her laugh. So yeah.

Chelsea (58:01)
Yes. Yes.

So, yeah, well, because you've talked about so much of this and and the common theme being community and connection, which, hello, we're Quiet Connection. That's what we're here for. I would love to know.

Rachel Mangahas (58:04)
Yay.

Yes. -huh.

Chelsea (58:20)
If you could go back in time before you found out about any of your fertility struggles or anything like that and you could sort of instill something within yourself to get you through that phase of your life, it can be a phrase, it can be a thought, it can be a feeling, anything. What do you think you would have instilled in yourself?

Rachel Mangahas (58:29)
Mm -hmm.

Hmm. that's a good one. my god

I would have definitely said...

Just to, I'm trying to think of what's a good one.

Chelsea (58:57)
Anything's a good one. That's the beauty of this.

Rachel Mangahas (58:59)
Yeah, well,

because I was thinking like, you know, use your grit and your, I guess I was gonna say work ethic, because I was just very much like a figure things out person. Use it to your advantage, right? Like you can figure things out and trust yourself that you will always figure it out no matter what. and so just to not give hope in that sense, but also try to find ways to quiet your brain.

Chelsea (59:26)
Yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (59:27)
You know, learn how to quiet the brain. think, and you know, obviously I disclose that I do have anxiety, so it's it's hard, but it's for most people, like you can, or for people that are better at it, you know, you can find ways. I would tell myself, like, definitely lean heavily into learning how to just quiet things down. You know, like, it's all the self -talk.

can it goes beyond like exactly what reality is. Like it's not it's not even half of it's not true. I feel like I'm going to feel like I'm going through that with my daughter who just like she has all these perceptions of all these things. And I'm like, those things are not true, Right. So it's like, think like with her, like I'm doing it right now. I'm trying to instill it in my daughter. Like, I hear you, you know, like these are real fears and feelings. But let's look at it, you know.

Chelsea (59:57)
Yeah.

I know exactly what you mean, yes, yes.

Rachel Mangahas (1:00:21)
like what it is right now, like is it really true? know, like are they really thinking these things or is this a fact? And you know, not to let yourself kind of get carried away with it. I think not to sit too long in the thoughts. I guess, you know, just don't overthink. I just let it be, you know, like not to say that, I think that's the difference is like, I think there's a difference between let it be and kind of letting go, like accept, moving on or letting go, right? So I think.

Chelsea (1:00:49)
Yeah, yeah.

Rachel Mangahas (1:00:50)
So I think it's just kind of like finding that stillness, like get better at finding that stillness, Rachel. I think it was like, that was it. I feel like I constantly had to be busy. had to be doing something and I'm only like learning how to be like, okay, it's okay to be quiet. I went on a walk today and I was like, I didn't put headphones on. I was like, let's try to not do a bunch of things to distract my brain, you know, like try to learn to be okay to hear the thoughts, but tell it to, to, in your head.

Chelsea (1:01:11)
Yeah?

So like,

find the quiet. Find the quiet. Yeah. Yes! And the quiet connection that you have now extended to my listeners, which I am so thankful for. Rachel, thank you for meeting with me. I want to know, and my listeners want to know, where can we find you? Where can we find you to keep up with what you're doing?

Rachel Mangahas (1:01:22)
Yeah, the quiet connection with yourself. There you go. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, again, like we talked about already threads is where I'm at. Threads is the best. So you can find me and Chelsea on threads. but you, I'm also very much on Instagram. So the same name. it's at Rachel underscore manga house. And then I do have my podcasts called it's how you carry it. and it talks about all things, my own journey, but also just.

Chelsea (1:01:49)
Threads is amazing.

Yes!

Rachel Mangahas (1:02:11)
I'm also trying to bring in more stories, sharing their infertility journeys and looking for women too that are like going through, you know, the surrogacy journey, embryo adoption, all that kind of stuff because it's that stuff, like we said, it's not talked about. So having those stories would be amazing. yeah, talking about these hard topics on there. So you're welcome to come find me there as well. But yeah, other than that, it was been fun.

Chelsea (1:02:40)
Yeah, I have absolutely loved chatting with you. All of everything that Rachel just talked about will be linked in the show notes. So listeners, check the show notes and you will be able to find her. And thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for holding space for not only your journey, but for the journeys of others that may be going through something similar. Just thank you.

Rachel Mangahas (1:02:41)
my god.

Yay.

my god, of course.

It was such an honor. Thank you for having me. I love conversations like this and you made it so easy. You made it so easy. So kudos to you.

Chelsea (1:03:07)
Yay!

Thank

you. Okay,

Chelsea (1:03:14)
Rachel, thank you for sharing your story with me and for all the laughs along the way. Your ability to find joy amidst the challenges you've faced is a true strength. I had so much fun chatting and I hope my listeners will check out your podcast, It's How You Carry It, to hear more from you. You can keep up with us on Quiet Connection by following us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and threads at Quiet Connection Podcast.

You can help our community grow by leaving us a rating and review on Apple podcasts or Spotify and consider sharing our episodes on social media. To share your personal journey, can contact us through our website at quietconnectionpodcast .com or by email at quietconnectionppmh at gmail .com. Join us next time when another story is told and you realize you are not alone. I see you.