Emma D - Triumphs and Trials of Motherhood

This week I'm connecting with Emma, who opens up about the unspoken struggles of motherhood—the messy, beautiful, and often overwhelming parts.

We discuss how becoming a parent reshapes your identity, the pressure to do it all, and the importance of carving out space for yourself. 

If you’ve ever felt lost in the chaos of motherhood, this episode is your reminder that you’re still in there—and you’re stronger than you think. 

Takeaways

• Emma's journey into motherhood began with IVF due to infertility issues.
• Mental health plays a significant role in the IVF process and postpartum experience.
• Support systems, including family and therapy, are crucial for mental well-being.
• Postpartum depression can affect anyone, regardless of preparation or awareness.
• Normalizing conversations about mental health is essential for future generations.
• Self-advocacy and asking for help are vital skills for parents.
• It's okay to have days where parenting feels overwhelming.
• Screen time and easy meals can be necessary for self-care as a parent.
• Children can learn about emotions and mental health through open dialogue.
• Every parent's journey is unique, and love for one's children is what truly matters.

Sound Bites
"You're strong enough to do this."
"It's okay to ask for help."
"Sometimes motherhood is beautiful and sometimes it is hard."

Transcript

Chelsea (00:00)
Welcome to Quiet Connection, a podcast dedicated to ending the stigma around postpartum mental health. I'm Chelsea. This week, I'm connecting with Emma, who shares her background in mental health and how it shaped her approach to motherhood, emphasizing the need for preventative measures in postpartum care. She discusses the challenges of pregnancy after loss, the importance of self-connection, and how she started her business my lighter way.

which supports mothers in their pregnancy and postpartum journeys. Let's hear from Emma.

Chelsea (00:37)
Today I'm here with Emma. Emma, how are you?

Emma DeSouza (00:40)
feeling really good this morning. A little tired but very good.

Chelsea (00:44)
Yeah, good. I'm glad. I know we were both saying like, it's 9am right now, but when you get up at 5am with Littles, 9am still feels, it just, it's early, okay? It's early. I'm so excited to have you on. I've been looking forward to getting to chat with you.

I would love is if you could sort of introduce yourself to my listeners and let us know who you were before you were a mom.

Emma DeSouza (01:13)
Absolutely. So I'm Emma. I'm a mom of two. We conceived via IVF. So we started that journey when we, my husband and I were 26 because we had been told for quite some time we needed to start young to up our chances basically. And so prior to being a mother, I was a nurse.

and I burnt out of that very quickly and my mental health was still being sorted. I have bipolar anxiety, that sort of gambit. And to be honest, I don't like saying I found purpose in motherhood because I want to find purpose as a person, but it really accelerated the things I wanted for my kids and the things I wanted for myself. So I really found myself

at beginning of the IVF journey and seeing my strength in that and so before being a mom I would say I was a little lost, a little trying to figure myself out and at the beginning of the journey of becoming a mom I really stepped into who I wanted to be and obviously it's a huge journey of motherhood and you lose yourself, you find yourself, you lose yourself, you find yourself.

Chelsea (02:27)
You

Emma DeSouza (02:32)
But yeah, prior to being a mom, I was a nurse in the geriatric population. I had been with my husband for quite some time before we got married, but we got married in August of 2020 in our backyard. And yeah, that's really what started my journey of finding myself.

Chelsea (02:46)
boy.

Yeah, that's a lot. That's a fruit. It is a lot. And nursing is intense and nursing in the geriatric field is intense. mean, any nurse, I love nurses. So I'm just going to like say that I love a nurse. I love a doula. I love all of those people that we don't necessarily like think of first, but we really should be. So thank you for being a nurse, but I understand the burnout. What sort of well,

Emma DeSouza (02:57)
It's a lot.

Chelsea (03:20)
I guess I have two questions. My first question will be, did you always picture yourself being a parent? Yes.

Emma DeSouza (03:26)
Yes, but

I find at least for myself when you're told you'll have some infertility issues You almost keep guarded and it's like you want to be a parent, but you don't fully admit that to yourself It's kind of like i'll be fine if we don't have children This is my dream was if we couldn't have children we were going to move to a farm and I was going to have dachshunds

The little wiener dogs. That was my dream. I was like if I can't have children, I'm gonna have 15 wiener dogs.

Chelsea (03:51)
wow.

I kind of love that. I'm

just envisioning that and it sounds chaotic, but amazing.

Emma DeSouza (04:04)
So that was my, so we had had those conversations prior, prior to even getting married, is it a deal breaker if we can't have kids? What's our plan if that doesn't happen for us? And so we both knew we wanted kids, but we also knew we would be okay to be a couple without kids.

Chelsea (04:23)
How did you know going into this that fertility was going to be a struggle for you?

Emma DeSouza (04:28)
was diagnosed in grade 9 with PCOS and back in the day they didn't really do anything for you. Basically what I was told was when you want kids come back and we'll talk. And being 13 that doesn't mean a whole lot to you. But I had a great family doctor at the time and she knew my history and I have a lot of hormonal issues. And so it wasn't that we knew for sure I would have a problem.

Chelsea (04:31)
Okay.

Emma DeSouza (04:58)
conceiving, but given my history there was a very high chance.

Chelsea (05:03)
Okay, it's interesting to me to hear that you were diagnosed so young because for a lot of people that is a tough diagnosis to get.

Emma DeSouza (05:12)
Mm -hmm. I had a very large cyst burst in my sleep that required us to go to the hospital and upon ultrasound they saw the cysts and things like that and then later in life I had a blood panel done for hormones and it was a little wacky. So I'm very lucky I got diagnosed young based off of just the cysts alone but it was confirmed over time through other things as well.

Chelsea (05:17)
Mmm.

And it sounds like, so that was not, definitely not like of benefit in terms of your health, but of benefit to know that about yourself and going into this relationship with your husband. Like you knew this. So was a conversation you guys could have. when did the conversation shift to IVF?

Emma DeSouza (06:04)
We had tried a few things prior. We had a great fertility clinic and I'm an open book. So basically my issue was ovulation. I don't typically ovulate and so it wasn't a matter, gratefully for me, of staying pregnant. My issue was actually getting pregnant. So we had tried medication and timing it. We had tried IUI.

And we had the conversation that it was too disappointing to keep getting these negatives. It was too hard mentally. And we were very blessed to be in a position where we had support financially to go through IVF. And so we kind of said, screw it, let's just go all in. Let's do it. was too hard mentally to keep getting the negatives. And I know a lot of people can relate to that. So...

We really just wanted to go all in and just do what we thought we needed to do in order to have success. And we're very lucky we had success with IVF, because again, that's not true for a lot of people either. it was one of the hardest things I've ever done, but I would do again in a heartbeat.

Chelsea (07:14)
I can imagine, from not experiencing IVF, geez, I really am showing how tired I am this morning, from not personally having to go through that experience, but hearing this story quite a bit, it's not only taxing on your body, but it's also very taxing on your mental health. It really does play a huge part in hormone production

production

and hormone production plays a huge part in your mental health. And you had mentioned that you had a prior mental health history. What was what was going on in your brain during that time? How were you handling that?

Emma DeSouza (07:47)
Bye!

It was a little bit of a wild ride. I think the hardest was building up to the egg retrieval because that's when you're on the significant amount of hormones to grow the eggs and you're trying to get as many as possible basically. Plus I had to come off some sort of medication getting ready for pregnancy that I couldn't be on. So being on reduced medication and more hormones was not

the best combination for me to put it lightly. But that's where you talk about your village and we're a multi -generational household. So it's my mom, my husband, and now our kids. And having them with me was a lifesaver. just I'm in monthly therapy as well. I'm a huge advocate for therapy.

So having my therapist, having my husband, and having my mom basically just heavily leaned on them for my day to day. And this is when I stopped nursing and I started my own business to have a little side income, keep myself busy, but also give me the flexibility of having the appointments or having bad days and things. And so I do want to acknowledge my journey was extremely privileged when it comes to this.

But for my mental health, it gave me a huge blessing to be able to adapt when I needed to.

Chelsea (09:19)
Yeah, absolutely. And I appreciate you acknowledging that while also, like I acknowledge that everybody's journey is challenging too. It's amazing that you were able to have the support and to make the decisions that you made to that you were protecting yourself.

So you've started your IVF journey. You've started egg retrieval. You're off of certain medications. You're going through it. You're going through it. How was that journey? How did that journey go for you to finally getting the positive pregnancy test?

Emma DeSouza (09:48)
Mm

Yeah, so the egg retrieval wasn't as successful as they thought it would be. The issue with being 26 and doing that is people with the best intentions tell you, you're gonna have so many eggs, you're gonna get so much. And we got a very small amount that's typically considered. And that was hard because people had hyped us up so much that it was going to be an overflow of eggs, basically.

Chelsea (10:24)
Yeah.

Emma DeSouza (10:26)
And so my pharmacist, funny enough, her and I were chatting and she said to me, it just takes one.

Chelsea (10:33)
Mm.

Emma DeSouza (10:34)
And that became my mantra that I talked to my friend about this recently. I was about how successful it was gonna be. It was never an option in my brain that it wasn't gonna work. So I just knew I had to get to the next step every time until it was going to happen.

Chelsea (10:50)
Mm.

Emma DeSouza (10:57)
And we were very lucky that even with the small portion that we got, most of them survived. Most of them did what they needed to do. And so I kept saying it just takes one. And so the ratio is not common for how many were successful. And so we ended up, think, with three successful ones that were tested and all of these things. And then we had to

plan for the, what's it called? I don't want to call it the Insertion Day, but And we went in, they did it, and they're like, okay, you're pregnant now. And it was just, it was very hard to wrap your head around. A lot of the community uses pregnant until proven otherwise with IVF

Chelsea (11:25)
implantation? No? Yeah. Yeah.

Yep.

Emma DeSouza (11:46)
And we went and I got my McDonald's fries, which is a little bit of a tradition. Yeah, it's a tradition. Yeah, it's some weird superstitions, but I love it. I can't say no to some McDonald's fries. So we went, I took it easy and they were really good. They said like, just take it easy and then you're good to like do what you need to do. But then you have to wait for the blood work to confirm, right? And so a lot of people do take...

Chelsea (11:50)
Yes, I've heard about this! What is that?

Yes!

Emma DeSouza (12:14)
pregnancy test to see if things are going up and up and I couldn't do that for my mental health. I just wanted to keep it clinical and keep myself out of it. And so then we got the email that basically said, congratulations, you're pregnant, your numbers are growing. And then there was just this huge breakdown of like, I can't believe this happened. And this had been like a year into the process. So we were a little bit older.

Chelsea (12:36)
Mm.

Emma DeSouza (12:44)
and it just felt surreal. and then that journey started a pregnancy.

Chelsea (12:48)
Yeah.

Yeah, well, mean, to the way that you said it, the way that you put it, it's like, OK, then I was pregnant. like, yeah, I can imagine like going through going from like, OK, getting pregnant naturally is obviously going to be a really big challenge. And then going through the IVF process and the egg retrieval process is such a huge thing. And then just to be like, OK, you're pregnant. You're like, what do I do with this information?

Emma DeSouza (12:57)
It's wildest thing.

Like, what do you mean?

Chelsea (13:20)
How was your mental health through your pregnancy? How, like, how, how were you feeling?

Emma DeSouza (13:25)
Yeah, so with my first and my second we're very much aware that I'm not a great pregnant person. Pregnancy is not graceful for me. And so my first was definitely rougher. My second not as much because I wasn't as on as many hormones prior because we had frozen the egg. So it was really just the implanting. So the first was pretty hard. And then I got

Chelsea (13:36)
Mm.

Emma DeSouza (13:55)
and I got nailed with postpartum depression. And I use that term because it hit like a brick. And with the bipolar, I had a very high chance of postpartum depression and even postpartum psychosis. So we were on the lookout. And I think that was the hardest part to admit that we were watching for the depression. I was on my medication and it still somehow snuck its way in.

Chelsea (14:01)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Emma DeSouza (14:23)
And it was heavy. It was a lot. And I share this moment with people because I want them to know it's okay and they're not terrible mothers, but I remember holding her and crying and saying to my husband, you take her? I don't want to be around her. I need to, like, I don't want her. I love her, but I can't be around her. I like that one distinctive moment stays in my brain because I was just

devastated to feel that way and I felt like a terrible mother and I felt like I didn't deserve to be her mom and all those lies that go through your head. But it was extremely hard but I did come out of it. took a long time honestly. think I started to improve around the nine month mark and she had a lot of health issues at the beginning. She was underweight. She had colic. Turns out she had acid reflux and a dairy sensitivity.

And so it was basically this baby that just screamed 24 I know escalated the depression as as we got her on medication and as we got her on specific formula, I realized breastfeeding I couldn't do because of the mental health and having to be off certain medication. And so I was at peace with that. I'm very lucky that that was never a deal breaker for me.

Chelsea (15:27)
I'm sure.

Emma DeSouza (15:44)
But come our second, we were like, okay, game plan. We know what's happening. Let's do it. We're good. We're going. our second has also been quite a journey as well. He's had some health issues as well.

Chelsea (15:50)
Hahaha

Yeah, is your second still pretty young? my goodness. Yeah. man. my goodness. What's the age difference between your kiddos?

Emma DeSouza (15:58)
Yes, he's 10 months. Not even in your postpartum yet. Yeah.

I'm

just like two years, two months.

Chelsea (16:11)
Two years, two months. 22 is like my, it's my magic number. So two and two, it's pretty cool. Yeah, that's weird. Well, parenting is hard no matter what. Parenting two with like a toddler and a baby is not easy at And going back to like talking about how it hit you like a ton of bricks.

Emma DeSouza (16:17)
I love it.

Chelsea (16:37)
and you were prepared, like you had prepared yourself. And yes, you had to do some lifestyle changes that probably contributed, like you had to get off of certain medications and get back on certain medications. But it just highlights the fact that PMADS don't discriminate and you can be as prepared as you possibly can be.

Emma DeSouza (16:39)
Mm

Chelsea (17:00)
and it can still creep up on you. And that's not to say you should be terrified because Emma's here telling you she came out the other side. And I'm assuming because of this amazing support system that you've talked so much about that you were able to rely on them through this time, like your mom and your spouse and...

Emma DeSouza (17:23)
Absolutely.

Chelsea (17:24)
Yeah, what did that support sort of look like? Like what were the things that were most helpful for you?

Emma DeSouza (17:29)
think the biggest part was being reminded to have grace for myself and even the second time I often need to be reminded you're only X months postpartum like you're only and I think that's so easy to think I should have my SHIT back together because I'm five months out and I'm six months out and it's like that's so such a small amount of time still

Chelsea (17:40)
Yeah!

You

Emma DeSouza (17:57)
And so being able to cry when I needed to, being able to vent when I needed to, being able to get those ugly thoughts out of my head and said out loud because for me it's always been if I say the thought out loud you can see how not based in logic it is but when it's just in your head playing over and over it's so easy to convince yourself that thought is real when it's truly not. And I think just being open with people with where I was at

allowed me to feel seen and heard and so the isolation tries to happen less room to breathe. I always say shame can't grow in the light and the more open I was about it the easier it was to cope and not that I didn't have really hard days and moments but it gave me hope that at some point it was going to pass and my mom would say she goes

Chelsea (18:38)
Mmm.

Emma DeSouza (18:53)
We're in it now. She goes, at some point you're gonna wake up one day and you're gonna feel a little bit lighter. And just that reminder every day really helped me push through some of that darkness.

Chelsea (19:05)
I love that. I love the, the shame can't grow in the light. cause that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to like, just like talk about this stuff. I'm, I'm curious too, if your history with mental health disorders, maybe almost prepared you and your family in a way, to allow yourself to give yourself grace. Like you, you knew that there is light.

That's an assumption though, you can tell me if I'm wrong.

Emma DeSouza (19:32)
No, that's totally,

it's true. I was familiar with therapy. I was familiar with challenging thoughts and all this. I've been in therapy at this point 14 years. Like I love me some therapy. And so I think because of that, I also didn't have shame in admitting that I was having trouble with my mental health. And I think, and this is an assumption as well, but I think

Chelsea (19:43)
Mm -hmm. Same. Actually, I think I've been in longer, like therapy? Yes. Yes, yes, yes.

Emma DeSouza (20:01)
People who haven't dealt with mental health before, there's a lot of shame in saying I need help. There's a lot of shame in saying I'm not okay. I'm afraid of medication. I don't know if I'm gonna get better. And for me it's like, I've been in the thick of it. I've been in the worst of it. And I know that means nothing about me. My mental health does not define me. It just means I'm struggling right now and I need some help to stop struggling.

Chelsea (20:21)
Mm -hmm.

It sounds like you have learned to be a really good advocate for yourself and that you also have really good advocates in your corner, which is incredible. Which highlights this, like you talk about the village, it highlights the need for the village and so many new parents assume that the village comes with the baby and that's not, you have to build a village and sometimes, sometimes you have to be your own village for a little bit while you're building.

Emma DeSouza (20:56)
Mm -hmm.

Chelsea (20:57)
the village.

Emma DeSouza (20:57)
Mm -hmm.

Chelsea (20:58)
so for you, it really just took time and sort of altering some little things like you had mentioned breastfeeding and not breastfeeding so that you could take medications and the impact that it had on your mental health. That's another topic that a lot of parents don't know about.

Emma DeSouza (21:02)
Mm

Chelsea (21:19)
there's a whole, like, I don't want to call it a diagnosis, but there's a whole phenomenon about, and I can't remember. I, this just happened me the other day too. It's something about the letdown and it's when the letdown happens, instead of getting that flood of happy hormones, your body like floods you with like cortisol and you like panic and dread and, and you get those feelings instead. but it's a.

Emma DeSouza (21:25)
Thank

Something about let down.

had that as

well.

Chelsea (21:48)
Yes, I did too with my first. So knowing that about yourself and being like, okay, I can take care of me and feed my baby formula. So I'm glad that you were able to recognize that and that you were that you were able to take your meds because that's huge.

You had also, I don't know if you want to get into this or not, but you had mentioned you have a fibromyalgia diagnosis as well. Is that something that you struggled with prior to pregnancy or post pregnancy?

Emma DeSouza (22:12)
Mm

Mm

I struggled with it prior but it wasn't diagnosed, it was often overlooked. And then after my second was born, the pain had escalated to a point that I hadn't experienced before and I had a new family doctor, again so lucky, he's amazing, and I said to him, look, like I've had this pain for probably a decade.

Chelsea (22:29)
Mm -hmm.

Emma DeSouza (22:47)
and it's worse after pregnancy, my second pregnancy. And I had had hyperamesis gravidarium with my second, so I had lost weight, I had been really sick, and so my body had been through the wringer. considering having a flare up after that is not surprising. And then he said, okay, like, we're gonna figure this out. And he did the referral to the rheumatologist and I did the blood work and all this stuff. And we settled on fibromyalgia, which...

Chelsea (23:04)
Yeah.

Emma DeSouza (23:16)
10 years ago I figured I had doing my own research. So it was very validating. And to finally have some breakthrough medication and support and a plan and all of these things has been really game changing. But during pregnancy I didn't have a name for why I felt so uncomfortable. But that diagnosis was at the beginning of this year actually. So like very new. Yeah.

Chelsea (23:43)
It's still fairly new, yeah.

My...

cousin literally texted me last night and was like, and she's like, I just got a fibro diagnosis. And like, I've been struggling with this since my daughter was born and I've been like telling doctors. And it's again, it's that like advocating for yourself and not being listened to. Same thing with PCOS. I'm sure you heard, I'm sure you heard over and over again, well, you need to lose weight. Well, you need to get more sleep. Well, it's because you're postpartum.

Emma DeSouza (24:17)
Mm

Chelsea (24:17)
And that's not the case. You're like, no, listen to me, please. She's still in the really early phases too. And so she like, she's like, there's no cure for this. I don't know what to do. And so she, what you said for you, it was validating. Was there a piece of it that was like, okay, what do I do with this now?

Emma DeSouza (24:21)
No. Yes.

There is honestly relief. My fundamental belief about diagnosis and labels is that you can't let it define you, but you can allow it to give you resources. So by having a label and having a diagnosis, it opens up resources and it makes it a little bit easier to ask for help. And so for me, it was just relief because I already knew I had it. The pain wasn't new.

Chelsea (24:50)
Yes.

Emma DeSouza (25:05)
Just because I had the diagnosis nothing changed on my end. Just having the label did and and then I started doing my research and there's research now that shows weightlifting two times a week can significantly reduce symptoms and There's lifestyle changes you can make there's support groups on Facebook. There's so many things But I also think it comes back to that self -advocating that you need to ask for resources I got

Chelsea (25:25)
Yeah.

Emma DeSouza (25:34)
referred to this kind of experimental group therapy that's supposed to help reduce pain baselines. And so really putting yourself out there and saying, can I do for me to help myself versus just allowing these things to happen to me? You've got to fight to feel good. And you've got to know that like as a mom,

you deserve to feel good and that's how you're going to show up for your family if you're taking care of yourself and sometimes that means putting yourself first in order to be able to take care of your family.

Chelsea (26:08)
Absolutely. And that kind of lends itself beautifully to what my next question was, like, how do you, I know I'm focusing a lot on diagnoses. I subscribe to the whole idea of like own your stigma. Like you said, it doesn't define you, but it gives you sort of like a roadmap, like, okay, cool. Now I know where to look for help with this.

Emma DeSouza (26:19)
Yeah? Yeah?

Chelsea (26:34)
How does fibromyalgia and bipolar disorder sort of impact your view of yourself and your ability to parent?

Emma DeSouza (26:44)
This has been a hard one that I'm still learning. I do require a lot of rest. We're a really active family. We do lot of adventures. We do camping all summer, that sort of thing. And it's forced me to really refine my communication style and ask for what I need or communicate. And on the days that I really don't feel good, I will say to my husband, I really don't feel good, I will take...

Chelsea (26:47)
Yeah.

Emma DeSouza (27:11)
my medication to help myself. I will lie down or we have, it's a running joke now with some of my friends as well, because when they come over, we have this ice pack that just goes all around your head like a hat, basically. I just wear it like a hat. Like I'm just like walking around the house and my friends will come over and I'm wearing a hat or anything. So I have looked for solutions that keep me functional and doing what I need to do as a parent.

Chelsea (27:23)
yeah, I love those. Yeah.

Emma DeSouza (27:40)
but also providing relief. if we're home, like I'll just wear the ice pack hat as needed. I'm prone to migraines slash tension and headaches. So like for me, it's like you just throw it on in the morning and you go about your day. I have some CBD bombs. have some Aleve sticks. have, Bio freeze, like those sort of things. So basically not letting it wreck the day, but

Chelsea (27:52)
Yeah.

Emma DeSouza (28:05)
Allowing myself to do what I need to do and if I can't rest it just means pacing myself and going slowly For us it means sometimes the kids are having more screen time so I can lay on the couch like their Learning is not detrimental because I have to rest and I know that's a little controversial for some people but if Screen time means I'm gonna be a better mom and they're occupied and happy then for me. That's a no -brainer or

Chelsea (28:23)
Yeah.

Emma DeSouza (28:34)
We have easy snacks that I can grab and go or we meal prep little frozen waffles that I can just reheat for them. So really it takes intention and planning, but making my life as easy as possible. on the days that I really don't feel good, I can still show up, but my life is easier. Also big fan of, you know, grocery stores have those meals that are like pop it in the oven for 30 minutes. Huge fan of those too.

Chelsea (28:59)
Yes,

yes, yes, yes. I love so many of the things that you're talking about. As a person who, I mean, I've struggled with my mental health my whole life and struggling with PMADS, but now later in life, being part of the, I have chronic illness and disability and navigating that as a parent.

is so challenging and again it isn't something that is openly talked about because we're supposed to present ourselves as having our shit together right like yeah but i love that you talked about

the ways that you're able to still be there and present with your kids and your family and support yourself. You will get absolutely no shame from me for screen time. will say I Blue's Clues is my friend, Sesame Street is my friend, right? Mecha Builders I'm learning about didn't know about Mecha Builders until all of this but when you've watched every episode of

Emma DeSouza (29:57)
Love Sesame Street.

You're gonna have to

look into that one.

Chelsea (30:08)
It's

it's Sesame Street, but they're robots. it's yeah, it's on Amazon Prime. When you've watched every episode of Sesame Street and Blue's Clues and you're out and you're like, OK, I cannot watch one more of these. You go looking for other things. So Mecha Builders is a good one. But what I what I really like is that. I'm hearing you talk about.

Emma DeSouza (30:13)
Ooh.

hahahaha

Yeah.

Chelsea (30:33)
ways that like, yes, things are hard. This isn't easy. This isn't easy for anyone, especially when you're dealing with chronic illness that just adds that extra layer. But you can take care of you. You can, and you're going to have crap days. You're gonna have crap days. It's going to happen. And you're not always going to feel great about doing the waffles for dinner or the TV on, but being able to look back and be like, okay, but I was there. I was there.

Emma DeSouza (30:48)
100%.

Chelsea (31:02)
My kids are safe. I was safe. Everybody's okay. Yeah?

Emma DeSouza (31:07)
Some days for me, and I've said this to friends and clients before, it's like if your kids are fed, if they feel safe and they feel loved, sometimes that's all you need to do in a day. And like that's still successful day if you did nothing else.

Chelsea (31:18)
Yeah!

Absolutely.

Absolutely. And I know that you're, you're two are still pretty darn young. I'm assuming your two year old or two and a half. my gosh. Okay. Get ready for three. yeah, everyone's I

Emma DeSouza (31:29)
Yeah.

gonna be three on Thursday I know I'm a little terrified but get in there

Chelsea (31:43)
So I've worked with kids and especially young kids, literally my entire adult life. So the last like 18 years. And everyone would always tell parents about terrible twos, terrible twos. And I'm like, first of all, like stop labeling it. But I'm not going to set, because your child is different than every child. But three for me has always been harder than two. But in the best way.

because they are little people now. Yeah, yeah. So it's challenging because they're little people now, but it's awesome because they're little people now. So just like, brace yourself. But my sort of thought process on this is, This is all she's ever known. This is mommy. This is...

Emma DeSouza (32:14)
It's so cool to see!

Chelsea (32:33)
right? And I'm willing to bet that this... she has no problems with it. And she's not negatively impacted because you guys snuggled on the couch and watched Sesame Street.

Emma DeSouza (32:46)
Yeah, we even like yesterday she has some neurodivergences as well. So her room is her quiet space. We have a basket of fidget toys and yesterday I was like, mommy's not feeling well and she's feeling overwhelmed. So I was like, let's go in your room and hang out. So I threw out my ice pack. I laid in her bed. We had her fidget toys and we were just chatting and playing and that's just one -on -one special time and she has no idea.

that I'm not feeling well and that's why I'm needing to lie down, but instead we're just having quiet time in a room getting to chat about life and all of these things. And I think it's also especially important for your kids to see you can not feel 100 % and still show up. And that's like, that's amazing.

Chelsea (33:34)
Yeah, you and and this doesn't just go for parents who are struggling with mental health challenges or who are struggling with chronic illness or who are whatever like it's okay if you're having a crappy day to just chill to just chill I think those of us who do struggle with that kind of thing maybe see those moments it with a wider lens or a brighter lens, but

Is it something that you openly talk about? I know she's still so young, but like, you, is there like a dialogue around that? Like mommy's having a hard day?

Emma DeSouza (34:12)
Sort of. Like some days if I'm feeling mentally not my best self, I will explain to her. I'll be like, mommy's having big feelings today and I need to take care of myself or I don't want to say I try not to cry in front of her because we do normalize crying but I try to keep myself composed in front of her in a sense. Otherwise she stresses out. But if it comes out I'll be like, mommy's having big feelings, she's feeling sad.

Chelsea (34:31)
Yeah.

Emma DeSouza (34:39)
But I'm gonna take a couple deep breaths. You want to take some deep breaths with me? And like we make it a group thing. And so for me, it's been extremely healing. And this is kind of at the beginning what I talked about, like finding the purpose in my motherhood because I'm leading myself in a way that I probably wouldn't have been as determined to do because I want her to see like when she even little and when she's older, she's gonna have days where she wants to cry and that's healthy to cry like cry.

and help yourself through it and lean on your family and be open about it so people can help you. And so we have age -appropriate conversations. She doesn't know I have diagnoses. We're not at like that stage of explaining that, but she knows sometimes mommy needs to rest or sometimes mommy has a headache. Her little hands when she rubs your head to make you feel better.

Chelsea (35:22)
right.

Emma DeSouza (35:31)
Even if I felt like I was dying on that day, I would be totally at bliss. There's no pressure. It doesn't help at all. But it's just like the sweetest little hand rubs. So she's very nurturing. But that's also another thing we balance is just because mommy or daddy don't feel well, like it's not your job to make us feel better. Like you can hang out. I love your company. I love chatting, but like

Chelsea (35:56)
Yes.

Emma DeSouza (36:01)
Baby, like you don't have to make us feel better. We're the adults. We'll take care of ourselves. But I'm just letting you know, this is what mommy's experience right now and we're safe and we're good and everything's fine. But mommy's just working through this.

Chelsea (36:14)
Yeah, I love that you there are so many things that I love about what you just said. No, really, because so I'll go backwards. I'll start with the last thing and go backwards. That's a big thing that we do in our house. And it isn't something that was taught to us. I am assuming you're a little bit younger than me just from the timeline. But

Emma DeSouza (36:17)
I'm

Chelsea (36:36)
we weren't taught as kids how to feel our feelings and how to feel our feelings around other people. And so we also definitely, a lot of us were

parenting our parents. I'm not sure if you were in that situation or not, but to give your child that gift of not only seeing your true authentic self while also saying like, no, honey, you're still a kid and I'm still mom and you can be a kid and I can struggle and it's okay, you don't have to fix me. that's a beautiful gift. That's something that we work on a lot here, but it's a skill, right? Like it's...

Emma DeSouza (37:14)
Gotta

practice.

Chelsea (37:16)
Yeah, it's something that we're learning to do. Also, I don't know if it's all kids or if it's just my kids. My kids constantly have cold hands. So when I get my headaches, right? When I get my headaches and my migraines and my kids just come over and like they just put their hands on my head. like, can you just stay here, please? Just stay here.

Emma DeSouza (37:26)
That's so good.

Yeah. Yeah.

Chelsea (37:40)
So yeah, I think I hear your little one. Is everything okay? Okay. It's okay. It's okay.

Emma DeSouza (37:42)
You do. I have a babysitter here, so she's got him. I forgot to turn off the monitors, but I have

like one on this side of the room and one on the other side of the room, so I know which child's monitor it is.

Chelsea (37:54)
Okay,

I just want to make sure everything's okay. That's all. Okay. Okay. So, so now you've got this little one too. And again, he's just going to know you as like, this is mom. This is what my life is. This is what, we have, what we haven't really touched on is like your relationship with your partner. Like how do you guys navigate this whole parenting journey? knowing what you know about yourself and your needs.

Emma DeSouza (37:57)
Everything's good, he's so good.

Yes.

Yeah.

I think we're very lucky. We've been friends since high school. So we really grew up together and he's known, he's seen me at my sickest and he's seen me at my best. And going into the relationship, there were a lot of conversations where I said to him, I'm like, it's not gonna be fair some days because I'm gonna take and take and take and I will give back with my whole heart.

But there are gonna be days where I am not well consistently and I'm gonna need you to pick up a lot of the heavy lifting and I know that that cannot be fair sometimes and that cannot be what you want but going into the relationship like that's kind of what you're signing up for and as I've gotten better the split has gotten easier but there are still days

where he will get up with the kids and let me sleep in a little bit longer. Cause during the week I'm with them in the morning by myself for quite a few hours before childcare. So on Saturday or Sunday, he'll get them up and take them for a walk. If I'm really groggy or not feeling well. And so we're a really good team. And even when we're just like normal couples, like when you bicker, when you're just kind of frustrated.

we will remind ourselves we're a team and that kind of becomes the we're a good team, we're a good team, we're a good team. And when he's not feeling well or he's not feeling the best self because we all have stuff we're working through, I can be that gentle voice for him like you got this, you're doing a really good job, you're such a great dad. What can I do to help you is my biggest one. Like what can I do today to make your life easier?

Chelsea (40:07)
Yeah.

Emma DeSouza (40:07)
And some days

he won't need anything and some days he'll be like, can you do the dishwasher and clean out back and do this thing? But he's also practicing at allowing me to help. His big thing is asking for help. But it really is just that constant open communication and having the kids both navigating some health things right now has been really chaotic and really stressful.

Chelsea (40:19)
Yeah.

Emma DeSouza (40:35)
So it comes back to that open communication, even if it is I need space or I need to not talk. And we joked last night, we had dinner, we watched a show together, and then we scrolled our phones for like an hour just sitting beside each other. And I was like, we're good, right? He's like, we're so good. I'm like, you're done. We're both overstimulated from the weekend. He goes, absolutely. I was like, okay, so as long as we're touching base.

Chelsea (40:50)
Yes!

We're on the same

page here.

Emma DeSouza (41:03)
I just want to make sure this is a healthy side -by -side scroll and it just we can laugh about it and it's just we do what we need to do while always talking.

Chelsea (41:13)
I love that. One of my big challenges in doing these is when I resonate with someone, it's so hard for me to be like, not be like, my god, me too, because this is about you. But like so much is like, my god, me too. It just, yeah, I vibe with so much of what you're saying. And communication is huge. is huge. So we sort of we've talked about your supports. We've talked about your

Emma DeSouza (41:22)
Yeah.

Chelsea (41:39)
Like resources, coping skills, you are a rock star by the way, like listening to you talk about the way that you're handling, especially only being 10 months postpartum with your second, like you are rocking this taking care of yourself thing. Like just from...

Emma DeSouza (41:46)
That's sweet.

I that.

Chelsea (41:59)
for real. The fact that you can be doing a podcast episode with me right now with everything that you're navigating, gold star. But we've talked a lot about the challenges of parenting and just functioning as a human with mental health challenges and chronic illness. What are some of your triumphs throughout this whole?

Emma DeSouza (42:03)
Hahaha

you

Mm

Chelsea (42:25)
parenting journey? What are some of the things that you're most proud of?

Emma DeSouza (42:29)
The number one thing I think I'm most proud of is my ability to ask for help, my ability to mess up and move on, and my ability to do things for myself. And not all of those I am good at all the time. But like for instance, doing this podcast is selfishly for me because having a purpose outside of just motherhood, even if that's talking about motherhood and getting to help other people,

Chelsea (42:46)
Yeah.

Emma DeSouza (42:59)
If you want to call it selfish makes me feel purposeful outside of just being a mom and so for me, my work or learning new things or having conversations is a way that I fill my cup because I know I get to help other people but I also get to make friends and have conversations and all these things so it's something I do for me so trying to do things for myself is...

something I'm proud of. My next thing is doing something out of the house just for myself. That's my next step. I'm not quite there yet. My husband last night was like, because I really want an agenda. It's so silly, but I really want an agenda. And my husband's like, go to the store now. And I was like, it's five o 'clock. Like, I can't go to the store by myself at five o 'clock when you're with the kids. And he's like, what? And so I couldn't.

Chelsea (43:28)
Yes. I feel that.

Yeah.

You

Emma DeSouza (43:50)
Couldn't bring myself to do it, so that's my next step. But I think my biggest triumph is allowing myself to take care of myself and allowing myself to ask for help without shame. No.

Chelsea (44:00)
Yeah. Yes, I love that. That's the kicker right there. And it's not always easy that

that shame really likes to shout at you when you're doing these things. And to be able to shout back is a skill and it's learned and it's hard. And I also totally get the like, it's five o 'clock. I can't go out right now. It also makes

Emma DeSouza (44:12)
This is -

It's nighttime. It's like

bedtime and three hours for me.

Chelsea (44:26)
Yes!

Like, I feel like sometimes I feel like I'm 90 years old and like it's already it's almost dinner time. The day is over. We can't we can't do anything else. Like the people, people, no, the people who eat dinner, if you do this, this is nothing against you. But the people who eat dinner at like eight or nine o 'clock at night, I'm like, what is wrong with you? Yeah.

Emma DeSouza (44:34)
Yeah No, taste darling

I'm going to bed. I'm asleep.

Chelsea (44:50)
Is that I don't know

what you're doing. How are you? First of all, how are you going that long without eating? I'm starving at five o 'clock. But anyway, yeah, I totally I totally feel that. So, yeah, I don't I I I love how.

Emma DeSouza (44:54)
Yeah.

Chelsea (45:04)
just authentic you are and how honest you are about this whole thing. Like, this isn't sugar coated. This isn't sparkly. This isn't like, I'm overcoming my challenges and I'm rocking this mom thing. It's more like I do what I can and that's good. That's good. The word that I use for doing this sort of thing is selfish selflessness.

Emma DeSouza (45:27)
Ooh.

Chelsea (45:28)
I kind of because because yeah, it is like in the same way that you said, like I get to meet people like you and I get to talk about these things and I get to feel validated and I get to seen and heard. But so so do you and so does everybody else that I talk to. So, yeah, I call it selfish, selflessness. Yeah, because I don't I don't think it's just selfish, but yeah.

Emma DeSouza (45:41)
Yeah.

I love five.

Yeah. And people

listening, like the reason I try to be as open as possible is it's incredible when people have beautiful pregnancies that they love and great postpartum journeys. And like I am always so excited for people who have those experiences, but I think there are more people that don't have those experiences that were only starting to have these conversations.

And like sometimes motherhood is beautiful and sometimes it is the hardest thing you've ever done. And I just, by sharing my part of it, I feel like I get to normalize the hard bits as well as celebrate the good things that come of it. And so I think we can only continue to help each other by having as honest conversations as possible.

Chelsea (46:40)
Yeah, absolutely. I think everyone that I have ever spoken to and would agree that none of us want this, want our stories to be somebody else's stories. Like we're not out here like talking about it because we're like, everybody had something wrong. Like,

Emma DeSouza (46:54)
You're really...

Yeah.

Chelsea (47:02)
We want the beautiful birth experience. We want the beautiful postpartum experience for ourselves and for others. But I'm even going to go further and say the majority of us don't get that experience. And our voices matter too. And the more that we talk about it, the less scary it is. Yeah. Yes.

Emma DeSouza (47:12)
I agree.

Mm

Absolutely. It's like it can be hard and then it'll get better. You're not

in it forever.

Chelsea (47:27)
No, and it feels 100 % like you're in it forever. When you're in it. Yeah, when you're in it, it feels 100 % like it's forever, but it's not.

Emma DeSouza (47:30)
Yes.

Chelsea (47:39)
from both of Emma and I, I'm speaking for you now. We promise you that it is not forever, but nothing is forever. Even the good times, it's gonna get challenging, but then it's gonna get easier again.

Emma DeSouza (47:43)
Yes, please do it.

Chelsea (47:57)
I think I just talked to somebody recently and there's a person that I follow on TikTok and I probably should have looked it up the last time I forgot who it was, but their whole mantra is just one more time. Just one more time.

and it can apply to so many different things. I think it can apply to if you're going through mental health challenges, can go so far as if you're having, SI or if you're just really, really sick, it's like, just try one more time. Every time just try one more time. it sounds like that's kind of, you're inadvertently living by that. Like just one more time. I have

Emma DeSouza (48:32)
Mm

Chelsea (48:36)
two directions that I want to take this. My first one is, do you think, like thinking ahead as your kiddos get older, how do you think you will approach these conversations with them, like around mental health, or do you think it'll just come naturally? it'll, like those,

now I can't think of them, the term, but like those like learning moments that just happen.

Emma DeSouza (48:58)
Yeah.

I think it will be more ingrained versus a sit down conversation because we already talk about those things in our day to day and we already talk about big feelings and our daughter has some sensory issues so we talk about finding calm spaces and feeling safe in our bodies and so my goal as a parent has really been to just normalize that as an everyday thing and not like this big important thing.

And so I think one day I might explain to her, well, this is bipolar and this is kind of what it is. But I don't see that really being a big conversation probably until she's a teenager of like labeling it for her. Other than sometimes mommy has big feelings and like that's that's the thing and we can talk about sadness and we can talk about depression as she gets older and those sort of things.

Chelsea (49:43)
Mm -hmm.

Emma DeSouza (49:56)
but it really is just a normal part of our life that we like talk about almost on a daily basis. So I don't think mommy is any different than a lot of other people. I just experience it maybe more, but everyone has ups and downs. Everyone feels off some days. Everyone has bad days. And so I think just understanding, like she doesn't have a comparison while Sarah's mom doesn't feel sad. Five days she feels sad.

Chelsea (50:11)
Yeah.

Emma DeSouza (50:25)
three days? Like what's the two -day difference?

Chelsea (50:26)
Yeah.

Yeah. Everybody feels sad. Everybody feels something. Yeah.

Emma DeSouza (50:32)
Yeah, yes. So

it just, sometimes I feel it a little bit more or I feel it a little bit more intensely. And I think we can have those conversations, but I really just don't see it being this big sit down because we already kind of normalize it so much.

Chelsea (50:49)
I kind of anticipated that that would be where that direction went, but I love that. And I love that this generation of parents right now, that seems to just kind of be the norm. We're all just talking about our feelings and I like that should have just... We all have a lot of feelings. Thank you Inside Out for giving us little characters to put to them because it just makes it so much more fun.

Emma DeSouza (51:04)
We all have a lot of feelings.

Yes.

Chelsea (51:15)
But and then so beyond that beyond how how you would talk about it with your kids. I don't know if you listen to the podcast. It's OK if you haven't. But I have one of two questions that I usually wrap up with and I save. I decide at the end. But I think I'm going to ask both. So because really, I know you're special. get both. Yeah. So.

Emma DeSouza (51:35)
Okay. I'm good with it.

Chelsea (51:40)
First question is, if you could go back in time, and obviously you've had a lot of knowledge about yourself from a pretty early age, but if you could go back in time and instill something within yourself, whether it be a word, a phrase, a feeling, anything, to sort of help you navigate your path to where you are now, what would you instill in yourself?

Emma DeSouza (52:04)
You're strong enough to do this.

Chelsea (52:06)
Yeah.

Emma DeSouza (52:07)
Whatever comes, you're strong enough to do this.

Chelsea (52:10)
You are such a badass. Really, and you are, you are strong enough to do this. I hope that's not condescending in any way. you just, I am kind of like thriving off of your, your, I am like, like your self advocacy and these are things that I'm learning now. And I'm like,

Emma DeSouza (52:13)
you

No.

I really appreciate that.

Chelsea (52:34)
I'm really, you just, I can't even talk. I admire your ability to advocate for yourself. And then my second question is, if you had to sum it all up, what do you hope my listeners take away from your story?

Emma DeSouza (52:44)
Thank you.

You're gonna have bad days, you're gonna have good days, you're strong enough to get through it, and it's okay to ask for help. It's okay to have an imperfect motherhood experience that doesn't mean anything about you as a parent, and just enjoy those joyful moments as they come, because they will come in abundance.

Chelsea (53:13)
Yeah, yeah. It's so refreshing to talk to someone who has, I mean, I talk to a lot of people who have been through a lot of things, but it's refreshing, I think, and encouraging for my listeners to hear things that are, I don't even know how I want to word this because I have to be really sensitive.

Ugh.

Emma DeSouza (53:36)
You won't

offend me. I'm hard to... Okay.

Chelsea (53:38)
No, it's not you. It's not you.

What I'm trying to convey is

that it's very encouraging and I hope my listeners take away from listening to you is that you can have the odds stacked against you and you can be slammed with things that you didn't see coming even when you prepare, but you can still show up for yourself and you can still show up for your kids. And it doesn't mean you're going to be Pinterest mom every day. You have to be gentle with yourself, but you're still a good parent.

No matter what.

Emma DeSouza (54:13)
Yes.

Do you love your kids? Do you take care of your kids to the best of your ability? You're a good parent.

Chelsea (54:19)
Yeah, I saw somewhere if you worry that if you're a good parent, you're you're probably a good parent. I have to do that as well. So, yeah, I I'm going to wrap up the episode here because there's so many things that like on a personal level, I would chat with you, but this is your story. So I'll I just want to genuinely thank you for taking the time.

Emma DeSouza (54:24)
Sometimes I say that to myself often.

Chelsea (54:46)
to share so openly and honestly. again, your time is very valuable and for choosing to share some of that time with me. So thank you.

Emma DeSouza (54:56)
I'm so, I was really looking forward to this conversation. I'm so grateful that you had me on.

Chelsea (55:02)
Emma, thank you so much for sharing your story, your insight, and your joy with me and my listeners. I really value how you're combining your expertise in mental health and intuition to support individuals during pregnancy and postpartum. Listeners, check the show notes for more info on Emma, My Lighter Way, and Emma's Master Class Resources to see if they're a good fit for you.

You can keep up with us on Quiet Connection by following us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and threads at Quiet Connection Podcast. You can help our community grow by leaving us a rating and review on Apple podcasts or Spotify, and consider sharing our episodes on social media. To share your personal journey, you can contact us through our website, quietconnectionpodcast.com, or by email at quietconnection.

Join us next time when another story is told and you realize you are not alone. I see you.