Sarah J - Motherhood Doesn't Have to Glow

In this honest and energizing conversation, Chelsea is joined by Sarah Johnston: entrepreneur, infertility warrior, and proud parent of a rainbow-loving toddler. Sarah shares her winding path to motherhood through infertility and IVF, the mental toll of a complicated pregnancy, and the terrifying postpartum OCD symptoms that followed. 

Together, they unpack everything from generational perfectionism and reparenting, to toddler meltdowns and the joy of rainbow birthday parties. This episode is an ode to vulnerability, community, and the radical act of showing up as your full self in parenting, even when you're still figuring it out.

To learn more about Sarah, visit her Instagram or Website!

🔑 Key Takeaways:

• Parenthood often brings unexpected challenges that don’t align with our expectations—and that’s normal.
• Infertility and pregnancy loss are emotionally devastating, especially when the cause is “unexplained.”
• Intrusive thoughts (especially postpartum) are common, and seeking support is a sign of strength, not weakness.
• Reparenting ourselves is part of parenting our children—especially for those raised in perfectionist or emotionally repressed environments.
• Community and connection, even with “internet strangers,” can be lifelines in times of isolation.
• Empowering children with emotional language and autonomy helps build resilience and mutual respect.
• There’s no one-size-fits-all approach to parenting—each child is unique and deserves a responsive, not a rigid parent.

🔊 Soundbites:

• “Connection is powerful—and you are not alone.”
• “My intrusive thoughts were terrifying. I thought, ‘What’s wrong with me?’ But the truth is, they’re common—and treatable.”
• “Motherhood made me undo a lifetime of perfectionism.”
• “My brain goes: ‘Throw him down the stairs.’ It’s not what I want—it’s my brain screaming ‘DANGER!’”
• “I asked my three-year-old what kind of birthday party he wanted. He said, ‘Rainbow. All the colors.’ And that’s exactly what we did.”
• “You can be deeply grateful and still really struggle. Both can be true.”
• “Parenting is common and unique. It’s hard, and it’s beautiful. It’s both.”

Transcript

Chelsea Myers (01:00)
Hey, welcome to Quiet Connection, a podcast dedicated to ending the stigma around postpartum mental health. This is Chelsea. Today's episode is packed. I'm talking with the incredible Sarah Johnston, entrepreneur, infertility warrior, and mom to a rainbow loving three-year-old with big feelings and even bigger opinions. We dive into everything from IVF and pregnancy trauma to postpartum OCD,

intrusive thoughts and why Sarah's kid had a rainbow-themed birthday party, and yes, someone did have an opinion about it. If you've ever felt like you're the only one who isn't glowing through pregnancy or like you're just barely holding it all together in parenthood, this one's for you. Let's get into it.

Sarah (01:49)
Hi.

Chelsea Myers (01:51)
Hello! Today I'm here with Sarah. How are you Sarah?

Sarah (01:55)
I am doing fantastic, how are you?

Chelsea Myers (01:58)
I'm doing. Yeah.

Sarah (01:59)
I'm here,

like that's kind of my sometimes I'm like, you know what, I'm here. the best we can ask.

Chelsea Myers (02:02)
Yes!

We made it. You are on the opposite side of the country from me. So you are in the morning and I am in the afternoon. And we're here. We're doing the thing. Yeah.

Sarah (02:12)
Yeah.

We are, we are, yeah, I'm in Phoenix

and ⁓ listen, I consider myself to be like relatively intelligent until I moved to Phoenix where we don't change our clocks ever. And so some, ever. So sometimes I am two hours from the East coast and sometimes I'm three. I, for the life of me, cannot understand time zones. Can't.

Chelsea Myers (02:34)
We don't need them, you know. We don't actually need them.

Sarah (02:38)
So right now, I'm the same time zone as Pacific, but I'm not always. And so if someone's like, hey, can we schedule a meeting? And I'm like, maybe. They're like, what time? They're like, what time? And I'm like, we'll see.

Chelsea Myers (02:46)
Yeah!

Right? ⁓ Whenever that happens, I swear to God. So I've done this so many times now with people from all over the world, not just the country, like all over the world. And you'd think that that would mean that I would get really, really good at figuring out time differences. No, I have to Google it every single time. Every single time. So yeah, I feel you. I feel you. We did it.

Sarah (03:10)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So we did it, but yeah, it's 10 a.m. for me, so.

Chelsea Myers (03:19)
It's 1pm for me. But yeah, that's life. And we're gonna, we're gonna roll into it. I love this energy.

Sarah (03:29)
I'm happy. I grew up a performer and talks too much in class on every report card. yeah, it's like.

Chelsea Myers (03:30)
So...

me too, me too.

Always, like always interrupting my peers. And yeah, so I feel that, I embody that. But I'm not gonna What I am gonna do, what I am gonna do is ask if you can introduce yourself to listeners and let us know who was Sarah before Sarah started the journey into parenting.

Sarah (03:45)
You can.

Yes, yes. So hi, Sarah Johnston, super excited to be here. Like I mentioned, I am in Phoenix currently. We moved here about three years ago, actually, after my son was born. Kind of a really big reason why we moved out here is I have a lot of family out here. And, you know, even though I was almost 33, I had my son and was like, Mom, help, like, I don't know what to do. ⁓ And, you know, I love I love love love being a mom. Our journey to parenthood was definitely a challenging one. We can

Chelsea Myers (04:18)
Hahaha!

Sarah (04:28)
dive into that for sure. And I feel like motherhood has really shaped everything about who I am now, almost to the point where I don't remember life before it, right? This very different kind of difference. I started my own business about a year and a half ago, almost two years ago, actually now, a big driving factor of that also parenthood of it just didn't really feel like corporate was allowing me to be both a mom and

Chelsea Myers (04:39)
Mmm.

Sarah (04:55)
someone that worked. I will say parenting is a joy. have a toddler, so a three-year-old. They're a very unique vibe.

Chelsea Myers (05:06)
Yeah, we'll go with that term. Yeah.

Sarah (05:08)
⁓ Yeah,

they're unique vibe. ⁓ But it's been a really fun journey for me to also kind of figure out me now, right? Because I do feel like in a lot of ways, I'm someone that does enjoy working and needs to work and wants that sense of self, but also motherhood is such a big part of me. And it's an evolving journey as they get older and as things change, but

I will say, you know, being a mom has been one of the greatest gifts of my life and my biggest teacher, I will say that as well. And now I kind of live in this balance of still trying to be me and who I am and also being the best mom that I can be to my son.

Chelsea Myers (05:42)
Yeah.

I love that. That is so relatable and so like, I don't know, we were just before we hopped on to record, we were talking about the chaos and the chaos of it all. And even when it feels like you're making these like big shifts and big choices to tame the chaos, it's just a different form of chaos and it can be beautiful. Yeah.

Sarah (06:12)
Yep.

Yeah, and learning to kind of roll with it too. I think for me, what we, I mean, again, we can talk about all of this in as much detail as you want. Really having to relearn some of my own behaviors and I'm someone that's really had to work on myself, very type A, very perfectionist, very rigid. And I've had to really undo a lot of that because that just, it's not how a toddler is. That's just 0 % how a toddler functions.

Chelsea Myers (06:21)
we're gonna get into it, yeah.

Sarah (06:41)
So really trying to figure out this balance of addressing my stuff too and having to kind of continuously work on that to be able to help him thrive. It's interesting what I struggled with thinking, okay, I feel like I'm gonna struggle with X, Y, and Z as a parent and then realizing, I actually am not really struggling with what I thought, but here's a whole new set of things that are really challenging.

Chelsea Myers (07:05)
You

Sarah (07:07)
So it's an evolving thing and I love what you're doing here just because I think it's really important to talk about these things. Because when I do, a lot of people are like, my god, I felt like I was crazy. I felt like I was the only one and I felt like broken. And I'm here to tell you, it's challenging and it's OK to feel like it's challenging. And I think the more people that talk about it, the more community and the more support we have from each other. So I love what you're doing here.

Chelsea Myers (07:17)
Yeah!

I love that. I love that. Thank you so much. And it it's so interesting to me how many moms I have been talking to who are like, yeah, I'm a type A overachiever, always wanting control. And so part of me is starting to go like, were we all type A overachievers? like, was there or is it societal standards that were put on us that made us feel this? I don't know. But like, I'm not kidding you. This is like,

five in a row now where people were like, yeah, I had all these expectations and I thought I was in control and I'm super type A and then life was like, nope. So yeah.

Sarah (08:14)
know if it's the generation maybe of kind of how we grew up. I'm also my family is like really crazily divorced and remarried. So I'm both the youngest and the middle child, which is a fun thing, you know, and I think, I think a lot of us put a lot of pressure on ourselves growing up. And I think a lot of it too, I stay mindful of is like, how can we do better for our kids because

Chelsea Myers (08:16)
it very well could be.

Hahaha, yeah!

Sarah (08:39)
I mean, in Call a Spade a Spade kids are who they are, but I still even see sometimes my son gets really frustrated if something's not perfect or if something, if you line something up and it gets out of order and trying to work with him on that too of like, it's okay, know, it's okay to feel frustrated, but trying to also teach them a better way to do things. And I think our parents did the best with what they had at the time, but a lot of us, kind of also feel like we're told like suck it up, stop complaining.

And it just perpetuated that kind of produce, produce, produce. So it's interesting to also kind of see how my son's trying to navigate the world and help him through those things to hopefully not have him feel those really soul crushing senses of needing for control and perfectionism, because it's rough, it's rough.

Chelsea Myers (09:06)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. So I am going to steer the ship and I am going to like start us down a path, but also acknowledging just from doing my quick mom brain math, I'm fairly certain we are either the same age or very close. I am, talking to a lot of like millennial elder millennial moms lately and a lot of what we're talking about.

is this reparenting ourselves as we are parenting our kids. So we'll hold on to that theme and we'll go back in time a little bit and we'll talk about, I would love to know, were kids always part of the plan, part of the checklist?

Sarah (09:54)
Yep.

Yeah, that's a great question. mean, definitely when I've been with my husband for a long time, but I think an important question that we did need to talk to each other about is, hey, do you want kids? Because I want kids. And we both did. So that's good, right? Interestingly enough, I was always cool with the idea of one. And so was he. He's like, yeah, I don't really have a vision. I truly believe there are some people out there who in the depths of their soul know.

Chelsea Myers (10:27)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (10:35)
they want two or three or however many. I never really felt attached to a number of children. I just knew I at least wanted one. And so we got married. I was 29, math on my end, somewhere around there. And we waited about a year to start trying. And then what ended up happening was a really tough journey.

Chelsea Myers (10:44)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (11:01)
to get to my son, which was very confusing and very upsetting because I had never had any previous problems. I had never been told. I had been told my whole life, you're textbook healthy, right? So I thought, hey, it'll be no problem. We'll get right to it. And so we started trying to have kids and we were just, not finding success. Like month after month, just not happening. And eventually we got to a point where we had been trying for a year.

And that's kind of the marker if you're under the age of 35 where my doctor's like, yeah, maybe you should go see a fertility specialist. And we entered this wild world of trying to figure out why we were not getting pregnant. And so then my feelings of like, okay, maybe it is just gonna be the one if that, right? Then we're having to grapple with these emotions of, well, we might not even get one. If we can't get pregnant, we're having all these problems. What now, right?

Chelsea Myers (11:30)
Mm.

Yeah.

Sarah (11:58)
So we went down the path of the infertility route and they never really totally found out why. There was no very clear indications of X, Y, and Z is you have endometriosis or there's something happening. They were like, we don't really know why you're not getting pregnant. I was like, sweet, type A perfectionist control, we love it. Yeah, yeah, it was like great. And at that point we were kind of like a year and a few months into this.

Chelsea Myers (12:16)
Yeah, yeah, thank you. Thank you for the lack of knowledge. Thank you.

Sarah (12:26)
We started with some fertility treatments. We had three IUIs that just straight up failed. Nothing even took, just didn't even happen. And then ultimately made the decision to go into IVF because that was gonna hopefully yield better results for us. And my doctor was kind of like, at this point, you can try another IUI, but like, I wouldn't recommend it. So we went down the whole path of IVF, did an egg retrieval and...

There was a bunch of kind of weird issues with that as well. And I ended up with two genetically normal embryos, which we were so grateful for. Again, my labs looked perfect. My body looked perfect. We transferred an embryo, genetically tested. I looked great and we miscarried. My doctor was like, that shouldn't have happened. That shouldn't have happened. And again, I'm kind of in this like, am I ever going to have a baby? Ever. You know, you start to panic. It's really hard emotionally, physically. I mean, just...

Chelsea Myers (13:06)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Sarah (13:20)
all of the things and had to go through more testing, had to end up having a surgery on my uterus, like a bunch of other things to the point where we had one more embryo, we had one more shot. And I said, I had no hope going into that, right? I was so pessimistic. And what was really hard is everyone's like, just have hope. I'm like, bitch.

Chelsea Myers (13:27)
Mmm.

Hahaha!

Sarah (13:43)
I'm like, or my favorite people are like, maybe it's God's plan. And I'm like,

Okay. So a lot was riding on this one singular embryo and lo and behold, we got pregnant. And of course, my first thought is we'll miscarry it. You know, there's no reason why this is going to stick around. And so I feel like my entire pregnancy journey was very colored by my experience, which was really hard. I never enjoyed pregnancy. I barfed a lot, which didn't help, but

Chelsea Myers (14:17)
Ha ha ha.

Sarah (14:17)
I never

enjoyed it because I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop, for something to happen, for them to tell me, it's not happening for you, et cetera. so pregnancy was really hard for me. And this is where I started to open up on my own socials, right? Of like, I'm not digging this. I'm not loving this for a variety of reasons. And the amount of people that were like, my God, thank God. I was so scared to admit I hate pregnancy. I hate it.

Chelsea Myers (14:20)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Sarah (14:45)
I'm terrified maybe they also had a journey. Maybe they just didn't like it, whatever the case may be. That entire nine months was very fraught for me. I was very terrified. I almost kind of had to dissociate in a sense being like, I just have to disconnect myself from this baby because if I let myself get too attached and something happens, I don't know if I can handle that. I don't know if I can do that. And so I really struggled and again, kind of started to...

Chelsea Myers (15:07)
You

Sarah (15:14)
solidify my one and done mentality there too, where I was like, I don't know if I can do this again, not the infertility part, the IVF part, the pregnancy part. And we are so eternally grateful and blessed and my son was born healthy via C-section, so I had a C-section. ⁓ And that the second he was out of my body was the first time I relaxed and I heard him, I heard him cry. And I was like, okay, he's real.

Chelsea Myers (15:30)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (15:41)
My husband's like, yeah. I'm like, oh my god, he's here. He's a thing. He's a, wow. I was shocked almost when I first saw him. And that was the first time I sort of was able to take a breath and be like, we did it. Oh my god, we did it. And I was like, wow, wow, oh my god. It was a very surreal moment for me getting to that point.

and just at least getting him here and safe. So that's three years, that's three years of chaos, right? And then we start the parenting part. But I do like to talk about my journey to get there and my experience with pregnancy because I think a lot of people feel very alone when they say like, but you're supposed to be glowing and.

Chelsea Myers (16:16)
Yeah! ⁓

Sarah (16:30)
rainbows and butterflies and it's magical and that's just not the experience for a lot of people. Sorry, yeah, I like to talk about kind of that part. ⁓ Happy to dive into anything to more

Chelsea Myers (16:36)
It's true.

think so, so much of what you said, A, resonated with me and I didn't go through a fertility struggle, but in terms of the not enjoying being pregnant and the stigma that goes along with that,

And then again, like while you're pregnant, like the people that tell you things that I'm sure are well-meaning, like, well, just enjoy yourself, just relax, or this is all part of the plan. So unhelpful. I think if you take one thing away from today so far, is however well-meaning, please don't tell someone that it's part of the plan. It's a really sucky plan. It's a really sucky plan.

Sarah (17:17)
It's a sucky plan. That's what I want to say to them.

It's true! It's true!

Chelsea Myers (17:23)
There's, it really is

true. It really is true and it applies to so much. And I understand too, that this is a podcast where I talk to parents about the challenges of pregnancy and postpartum. So obviously that's like our wheelhouse, but just in life in general, don't ever assume, you don't know, you don't know everybody's story. yes, it drives me. Yes.

Sarah (17:45)
Yeah, or the just be grateful.

I've talked about this so many times, the yes and. Of course I'm grateful. Of course I am eternally grateful for also the fact that we could go through IVF, the fact that we did have that as a resource. I'm grateful and I'm struggling. And that can be very true at the same time. I would say for the majority of people,

Chelsea Myers (18:01)
Mm-hmm.

Yes! Yes!

Sarah (18:14)
are really kind and comforting and have become, you know, resources for me, every once in a while I'll get some people that just don't get it. And I have to be okay with that, right? Like, you know, not everyone's gonna understand me and that's okay. But learning to also lean into other people that are willing to share their stories with me helped me feel like I wasn't nuts and wasn't crazy. And I think...

Chelsea Myers (18:36)
Yeah.

Sarah (18:39)
So many people go into pregnancy or even parenthood with expectations or a way they think it's gonna go. And it's really hard when that doesn't go according to plan. And trying to figure out how to work through that and just be open and honest about it is really important because it perpetuates those stigmas and feelings of isolation when we don't.

Chelsea Myers (19:03)
It's very true. It's so true. And I'm not sure if you see this as much in terms of social media. I've had to learn to be careful about the social media I'm consuming. But just as hard as people like you and I are advocating for talking about the challenges and the duality of this whole experience, there is a whole other side. I don't like sides, but

there's this push also to be like, why are we complaining about motherhood? Why are we scaring mothers? Why are we complaining? Like, why can't you just enjoy the little moments and why can't we be happy and why can't we celebrate our birth experiences without you talking about your birth? And I want to be very clear, and I'm not to you, to the listeners, because I'm pretty sure you are on this same wavelength.

Sarah (19:57)
Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (19:58)
There's room for all of us. There's room for all of us. And all of our stories are valid. And we can talk about all of them because if we don't talk about all of them, someone is going to feel like you said crazy. Someone is going to feel alone. So whether that be like you have the most blissful pregnancy and everyone around you is miserable and you're like, well, what's wrong with me? Or the opposite, you know what I mean? Like, yeah.

Sarah (20:00)
Mm-hmm.

Yes, yes.

And nothing, and I do try to share

the positives too. And so, yeah, I had my own slew of things that were really, really challenging, but you know what? My C-section experience was phenomenal. I loved it. I loved it. I loved it. Sincerely, like I had an incredible experience. I felt so safe and supported and it went really well. And so I share those things too, because I don't want to scare people into oblivion of.

of having children. And if you loved being pregnant, like my mom did, my mom loved being pregnant and I was like, peace and power, but like not me. And there are things that I maybe don't relate to. Again, I know a lot of people do have traumatic birth experiences. I didn't. And so I actually appreciate hearing about those things because if someone then does tell me or a friend happens to have something, I'm like, my God, I did see something about this and.

Chelsea Myers (21:02)
Yes!

Sarah (21:23)
maybe something good to say here is X, Y, and Z. I think it helps you be a more supportive person in general too. So maybe you don't experience that, but if someone comes to you and is looking for support and comfort, there is something that you can do where it's like, okay, maybe I haven't experienced this myself, but there are ways I can draw from things that I've heard or seen or read that will maybe help me show up as a bit more supportive for you in this moment. So I think it's.

I get it, people also are so feisty about like their stance and their opinions and I understand that. And some people kind of have been like, all you do is complain and okay, okay, like that's all right if you think that, I'm cool with that. it's the high majority of people that I've gotten to meet. Even you, right? These people that are willing to share and sit with

Chelsea Myers (22:01)
Ugh. Yeah.

Yeah

Sarah (22:19)
the challenge and then also celebrate the times that are really good, that are super fun. there's so much of it that I think people also, it's the reaction is their own internalized stuff that they maybe haven't worked out yet and that's okay. And that's again, kind of everyone that you've talked to and I experience of having to retrain myself in a lot of ways to react and to be and to parent. So.

It's challenging, all of it, all of it. Like every phase, every phase has a challenge. So I just, think the more we talk about it, the more we can open that conversation and not only share to get it off our chest, put it somewhere, but also be more supportive and hear different perspectives on the experience.

Chelsea Myers (22:48)
It is. It is!

Yeah, and something that you said that literally hit the nail on the head for me resonated so well for me is just sit in it together. You don't have to have a solution. You don't have to have a fix. You don't even have to have the perfect words. You can just sit in it with someone and sometimes that's all they need. But that's what we're trying to do.

Sarah (23:27)
Yes, that's what I, right?

And I think a lot of us, again, maybe it's our generation, we wanna be fixers. And I have to catch myself in that too of, hey, do you want advice or do you just want to be heard? Do you just want me to be here? I ask that question outright to a lot of people. I say, hey, here, I can do either. Do you simply just need to put it somewhere or are you looking for maybe advice and solutions?

Chelsea Myers (23:35)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Sarah (23:57)
When you're so in it, sometimes it's not helpful to hear that. And I've been on the receiving end of sometimes people just kind of jump into, well, do this to fix it. And it's like, well, I don't necessarily want that advice right now. That's not helping. So it's an interesting thing, I think, for me, where I'm a doer, I'm a fixer, and having to kind of

Chelsea Myers (24:11)
Yeah!

Sarah (24:20)
pause myself even and say like, what do you actually need right now? ⁓ And if it's just me to be here, great, I'm here. It's just nice to have that sometimes of a human that is there. So I try to be that person for others too, because I know that it's really helpful sometimes just to have compassion.

Chelsea Myers (24:25)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Absolutely, absolutely. And I can feel that from you and I, it's so needed to have that capacity to just sort of be. And like bringing it back to your story,

so you fought so hard to get your son and to have your son and honoring that that journey wasn't pleasant and wasn't fun. I know you mentioned, like you said, some people said some things that just really didn't hit the mark. Did you have people in your corner at that time? Did you feel supported and safe in feeling your feelings?

Sarah (25:13)
Interestingly enough, it came from very unexpected sources. And call us if you disbade, a lot of my friends didn't go through infertility. My closest people, my mom never went through it. A lot of my friends never experienced it. And so they could only be as supportive as what they could relate to. And so I think I've talked to them about this a lot too, is they're like, we don't really know what to say. And I feel like I'm saying the wrong things and

Chelsea Myers (25:23)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (25:42)
We've had many discussions about that, but I found a lot of comfort in strangers. Honestly, what started out as strangers, now a lot of them deeply close friends, right? Sharing on the internet, it's what our parents told us not to do. Don't talk to strangers on the internet. Like, it's all I do. ⁓ Right, and so it came from some pretty unexpected sources. And I've also had to really learn and lean into the fact that not, you know,

Chelsea Myers (25:53)
Mm-hmm.

Yes! That's what we do. That's what I do all the time.

Sarah (26:10)
it's okay if someone can't be the support that you need. And I've had that conversation too of like, please don't be offended if I'm not coming to you first with a question I have about infertility if you didn't have that. And the people in my life definitely get that. So it's come from some interesting places. A lot of me sharing and connecting with other people in the infertility community. Now a lot of them were in this parenting journey together, which has been a fun evolution and progression. But really,

I would say if you're in the depths of something, being open to unexpected places that may be a source of comfort for you and letting that be what it is. And I think that was a surprising part of this is you think, the people that have known me the longest are gonna be there for me. And they want to so desperately, but there's a level of disconnect that they're not gonna really get or they're not really gonna understand.

And so I really reached out and leaned on, you know, different types of people, support groups, internet besties. you know, I've known a couple of these folks for a long time now and letting myself be open to the support that is offered and given. So I did find a really good group and I am so grateful for some of these people I have that got me through, even my husband.

Chelsea Myers (27:14)
Yeah.

Sarah (27:31)
he doesn't get a lot of it. does, you know, he's like, I can't understand what it feels like to be pregnant or yes, I'll go and get you a cheesecake because you yelled at me that I didn't bring one home even though you didn't tell me to bring one home.

Chelsea Myers (27:32)
Yeah.

Yes, yes. I didn't read your mind. I'm really sorry.

Sarah (27:46)
You know? ⁓

⁓

Chelsea, I literally was like, you should have known to call and ask me if I wanted a cheesecake. He was like, okay.

Chelsea Myers (27:53)
You

Yep, yep, yep, that sounds familiar.

Sarah (28:00)
⁓

So it's a little confusing because it's the people you think, right? These are the closest to me. These are my typical confidants that might not be the ones to guide you if they don't have experience with it. And I offer, I also offer myself up to that too, right? A lot of people I'm so absolutely honored they choose to share with me because they know that I've experienced something like that before. And my DMs and messages are always open to

A lot of people say, I'm so sorry if this is weird. I'm like, it's not weird. Yay. This is what you should be doing. Because we're not supposed to go at it alone. And whether it's infertility or parenting, because my struggle didn't stop. Also, when I gave birth, there was a whole other set of things that came with that. And so it's evolving, too, of what you need. And learning to ask for that help is really big. And it's really tough for a lot of us. Really tough.

Chelsea Myers (28:31)
No!

Right?

Yeah.

Sarah (28:55)
I'm right there with you too of do it myself and I got this and at a certain point, whether that be friends, family, people on the internet or even mental health professionals, right? At a certain point postpartum, was like, and we can talk about this for sure too, is I was like, I'm not having thoughts that feel good. ⁓ I think I need to call in some professional help right now. And I did.

Chelsea Myers (29:10)
yeah.

Hmm?

Yeah, mean, that was actually, I was gonna go into that. After going through an entire pregnancy where you sort of had to dissociate to be able to make it through and then having your son arrive, it must have been so, it must have blindsided you when you started experiencing these other symptoms that you're like, what the hell? I have what I want.

Sarah (29:43)
Yes.

Yes. So I'll walk you kind of through. Prior to my son diagnosed ADHD, OCD. So I knew about those. And the way that my OCD presents in general is intrusive thought. And then it ruminates over and over and over. And so I had my son and I was doing all right for a little bit. And then I had started to have these very terrifying intrusive thoughts where

Chelsea Myers (29:58)
Huh?

Sarah (30:08)
Not only was it a scary thought, but what really started to freak me out was I would be doing something to my son. So I'd be walking down the stairs with him and my brain would go, just throw him. And I would panic because I'm like, I don't, why did I just think that? Right? Like what the absolute heck? I don't want that. I were.

what is going on or that I would wake up and he would be like tangled in the sheets and I was clawing at my legs and screaming or we would be on a walk and I would envision like a truck hitting us just really terrifying things that were happening and then they would just play over and over and over in my brain and it started to get to the point where I was like, I think I need to call my therapist and my psychiatrist and tell them what's happening.

Chelsea Myers (30:36)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (31:01)
because it would be freaky regardless, but the ones that I was like push them out the window. I literally can't even explain like the despair I would feel after those because I felt like a terrible mother. I felt like I don't deserve this child. I can't even think good thoughts, right? ⁓ What is wrong with me? And.

Chelsea Myers (31:22)
Yeah!

Sarah (31:25)
The way that my therapist and psychiatrist worked with me and I did go on, I upped my antidepressants. We worked with a couple different things to help me through this was they also helped me start to understand how my unique brain was allowing this to happen. And kind of what ended up happening with me was my brain moves very fast. My brain works differently. And so a danger that could be presented. So you're going down steep stairs with a baby.

⁓ A typical brain might think, hold on to the railing so you don't fall down. My brain goes, throw them down the stairs. Like it's a warning of danger that your brain is just working way too fast. And so what really helped me was, which is kind of a, it was an interesting way to think about it was I would actually thank my brain when I would have an intrusive thought. I would say brain, thank you so much for reminding me that this is a dangerous situation and I need to be careful walking down these stairs.

Chelsea Myers (32:13)
Hmm

Sarah (32:21)
Thank you for making sure that I can stay safe and I'm aware of my surroundings. Thank you, thank you. And then as we worked with medication also in tandem, those thoughts were a little bit more managed and under control. And I was really scared to open up about it because honestly, like again, in that state too, my brain's like, CPS is gonna take the kids away, is gonna take them away because they're gonna see me talking about this and think.

Chelsea Myers (32:43)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (32:46)
she wants to throw a kid down the stairs or out the window. Like we gotta go get them. So I was really scared to talk about it for a stigma, people looking at me like, what is wrong with this woman? I was met with outpouring of love, outpouring of responses and messages. People are like, I experienced this, I'm so sorry. I'm on the other side now, but I'm here for you. People saying, hey, I'm experiencing this right now. And I thought I was broken and alone.

Chelsea Myers (33:01)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (33:17)
And it was so helpful for me to identify the feeling and identify what was happening, because it's part of my story and it's part of my experience. It was a really, I am open book, right? I have no problem sharing. That was one where I was like, I'm terrified to admit that this happened to me. And I am grateful that it was met with a lot of support.

Chelsea Myers (33:33)
Yeah!

Sarah (33:45)
and a lot of love and I am able to talk about it now as part of my journey.

Chelsea Myers (33:50)
something that is sort of repeating in you talking about your story is your ability to be vulnerable. And one of the things that I like to tell people is like, your vulnerability is your strength. And yeah, and so intrusive thoughts like I girl, I know the the intrusive thoughts like I also have diagnosed OCD as well as

Sarah (34:14)
Mm-hmm.

Chelsea Myers (34:15)
all other kinds of alphabet things. But my God, all the things, it's really fun. I call my household a neuro sparkly household. ⁓ Yeah, I used to say neuro spicy, but I don't feel like I'm spicy. I feel like I'm a little more sparkly. But my point in saying that is like intrusive thoughts, A, are super common.

Sarah (34:18)
A to C.

Ooh, yeah.

Yeah, I love that. I love that.

Chelsea Myers (34:43)
when you become a and don't necessarily have to stem from having some sort of diagnosis either. Like they can just happen because you become a parent because like you said, your brain is working over time and then you add in sleep, right, you add in sleep deprivation, you add in just worry for this new little human that you're supposed to keep alive.

Sarah (34:59)
Exhausted, right.

Chelsea Myers (35:08)
So I do whenever a guest talks about it, I like to highlight it a little bit because A, you are not a bad mom. B, seeking help, just like Sarah said, is the best thing that you can do for yourself. Having those thoughts of, my God, they're gonna take my kids away from me again, is another very common thought. But most of, I would say the majority, if not every time,

Sarah (35:28)
Yep.

Chelsea Myers (35:34)
if you are seeking help, if you are saying, hey, I'm having these thoughts, I don't like them, I don't want to do something about them, CPS is not gonna come into your house and take your children away. They're gonna say, let's get you the support that you need. And then I also always, thanks to a, I call them pocket friends, like so friends that I've met through the internet. ⁓

Sarah (35:43)
Right.

Yeah!

Chelsea Myers (35:58)
Yeah, so thanks to a pocket friend named Aaisha who experienced postpartum psychosis, I always make sure to distinguish between intrusive thoughts and delusions. so we're talking about intrusive thoughts and you can even have intrusive thoughts if you don't have kids like my husband, right? Like, yeah, yeah.

Sarah (36:07)
Yes.

Yes.

Oh, and I did. one, I guess,

lucky, I don't know if that's the right word, is I at least knew this about myself beforehand. Like I at least knew that my OCD with pairings with ADHD and all the other things were in the form of these types of intrusive thoughts. They were just different before I had my son. So

Chelsea Myers (36:22)
You

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Sarah (36:40)
In a way, was like, OK, I'm glad that I kind of feel like I know potentially why this is happening. And I have some other thought around it. ⁓ But like you said, it can kind of come out of nowhere too, which I'm sure is extremely terrifying. I was kind of like, hey, you're back. Like, all right. I've seen you before.

Chelsea Myers (36:55)
Yeah.

Right, like, my god, are you kidding me? Like, yeah.

Sarah (37:03)
but it can kind of come out of nowhere too. And then yes, the distinction between that and like a true postpartum psychosis or delusions is very different. And I also think it was important for me to be able to speak them aloud to my husband too. I was like, you're probably not gonna understand this, but hey, I really need to get back on the line with my psychiatrist and my therapist because I'm having these thoughts.

And I'm so blessed with who he is as a person, because he's like, how can I help? Like, what can I do? know? ⁓ Sweet man. And after the cheesecake incident, I'm surprised he, you know, wanted to stay married.

Chelsea Myers (37:32)
Ugh, yes.

I mean that speaks a lot to his character, he's stuck around.

Sarah (37:43)
He was like, ⁓ but you know, I

think just speaking them aloud is even just a really good first step of like telling someone, right? And I think it can feel really overwhelming of like, I don't even know what to do next. I don't even know what to say or who to talk to, you know, but even just speaking them aloud starts to take away some of the shame of it's living within you, right? It's living within you. And I always speak up about this too of like intuition in general, but especially when you're a parent, like if you feel like something's off,

Chelsea Myers (38:02)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (38:13)
It's off. Something is telling you, you gotta listen to those things that are deep within your soul of like, something doesn't feel right here. And take some time to not just say, ooh, I'm just stressed. it's just normal. Because you deserve to kind of work through those and feel those. And so I'm glad I listened and I'm glad that I did get the help that I needed and we worked through that. It still kind of comes up here and there. It's much more managed.

Chelsea Myers (38:14)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (38:42)
now. ⁓ But I'd be lying if I said it's still every once in a while. I don't get something where I'm like, oof, you're back. Hi. But it helps to at least know and have the resources and tools to work through those things now.

Chelsea Myers (38:43)
Mm-hmm.

Absolutely. I love the way that you're talking about it too. I, not so lovingly, years and years ago before having kids, nicknamed my OCD brain and my intrusive thoughts my bitch brain. It's my bitch brain. And so my therapist and my husband and I, when we get there and when I'm in that space, I'm like, oh my God, shut up, bitch.

Sarah (39:13)
Mm-hmm.

Chelsea Myers (39:23)
And it's not like a derogatory term towards like women. It's literally just what I have named this side of me. And it's so helpful. Like it's really, it's like, right? You could anything. And the only reason that we went with bitch with my brain was because

Sarah (39:33)
I love that. I love that. should name mine too. Maybe like Darla or like something weird.

Chelsea Myers (39:44)
She's so mean, like she's so, so, so mean. So it was, it felt empowering to just be like, my God, shut up.

Sarah (39:54)
It's nice

to be able to also then take a little bit of that control back. So the reason I think why that exercise they had me do was actually thanking my brain is it gave me the control. I'm like, thank you. You know what? Thank you. I'm recognizing that you're doing something. Thank you for keeping me safe. I'm in control now of this. I can take some of that power back. And just the same thing, right? Shut up, bitch, right?

Chelsea Myers (39:59)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Sarah (40:20)
you're taking ownership

and more control kind of over that situation where it is pausing, recognizing, and then taking the appropriate course of action. And there's no right way to do it. There is no right way to go through this or work through it. If that is what helps you, that's what helps you. And that's what's so unique about parenting as well is like what worked for me isn't gonna work for you and vice versa. I'm here to kind of share and say what did work for me, but.

Chelsea Myers (40:45)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah (40:49)
sometimes it takes a couple different tries of like, okay, that's maybe not jiving with me, but is there something else that can or that will? And so the journey's like both, not universal, not everyone experiences that, but like it's both common and also unique, which is a really weird parenting thing.

Chelsea Myers (41:05)
Yeah!

It's perfect. That's actually perfect how you worded it because I'm super intentional about not using the word normal ⁓ because a lot of say like, that's normal. That's normal in parenthood. That's normal in motherhood. Well, it's not normal, but it is common. And that doesn't mean it's common and it's weird. It's common and it's unique. It's common and it's really hard. And it's again, like we keep going back to it's this duality.

Sarah (41:18)
Mm-hmm.

Chelsea Myers (41:38)
It's not right. So I think you're the way that you worded it is perfect. It's common and it's unique.

Sarah (41:38)
Yes.

Yeah.

And it's interesting because a lot of my friends now, we have kids pretty much in the same age range. And some people will even ask me, like, oof, how did you get rid of the pacifier? And I'm like, my kid never took one. Like, I might not be the best resource for you. I know it's really common. And a lot of parents really struggle with weaning off the pacifier. It's just not something that I know or I can share. Or even a lot of us have to potty train, right? But like what worked for my kid might not work for yours.

Chelsea Myers (41:58)
Right. ⁓

Hmm?

Sarah (42:15)
It's a constant reminder to ourselves too that like if something's not working for you or your child to also not say like my kid's broken because they're deeply unique individuals as well and deserve to be treated as such. think we've also gotten to a point where we expect our kids to be robots with sleep, with eating, with potty training, with speaking, with walking, with all of these different types of, I guess, milestones we'll call them. We expect them to be.

Chelsea Myers (42:33)
Mmm.

Sarah (42:43)
robotic and parents kind of freak out if their kids not following the sleep thing. Like they're supposed to sleep for two hours and they slept for one hour and it's

Chelsea Myers (42:48)
Well, it's even I know. Well, it's

the training like when you said potty training, but you could put training after every single word you just listed. And there's a program out there for it. And there is some parent feeling like they have to follow that. There's sleep training. There's food like, you know what I mean? Like and yeah.

Sarah (43:02)
Yep.

Yes, the best thing I ever did

for my mental health was leave parenting groups, leave pregnancy groups, leave it. Unfollow Instagram accounts that claim all these people are having success with whatever. Because the second that I actually started listening to my kid, more of my life got so much better. Got so much better when, yeah, he's not completely feral and running amok. But we do have some semblance of routine, but.

Chelsea Myers (43:13)
Huh?

Yeah.

Sarah (43:36)
starting to lean more into like, you know what, my kid just tends to be, he likes to go to bed around nine. And I know for a three year old, maybe some people think that's late. Some people maybe think that's early, I don't know. But that what it's what works for him. And trying to force him to go to bed at 730, not only is terrible for him, it's terrible for me. It's terrible for me. And so the more that I started to listen and let him guide was when I started to feel a little bit more successful with

Chelsea Myers (43:53)
Yeah.

Sarah (44:03)
you know, working with him rather than trying to force him. And again, this is where it gets challenging because I did have to let go of a lot of my rigid nature and perfectionism. And I like things to be checked off and I like things to be done in order. And that's not how it is. But I will say starting to really let him lead has been and it's easier now that he's a little older and can talk and verbalize some more stuff. But that's been a really big lesson for me, too, is I can't expect my kid to be me.

or my husband, yeah, we made him, but like, he's his own person. He's his own person. And how can I work with that rather than against it? And that's, you know, been a really kind of interesting path to navigate, especially as he's in toddlerhood now and the independence trying to come in and the do it myself era and all the things. So, huh, yeah.

Chelsea Myers (44:34)
Yeah.

Yeah, we're

deep into that in my house right now. And this concept also too is leaning into really validating and recognizing them as their own people or as their own person ⁓ is a concept that I recently explored on my other podcast, which is a panel podcast. But it's something that we talked about and we talked about how like we were talking about consent.

and how you can teach consent in literally anything. And that really does go along with respecting your child as an individual. And I made the joke of like, I'm like, you can laugh at me, but I do say like, you want to give me a hug? Or like, I love you, you don't have to say I love you back or like, she knows those things.

But I'm also not compromising on, I'm not like, do you want to eat your vegetables or do you want to take a bath? Because that's something completely different. So you can honor your child as an individual and just sort of revel in the chaos of all of it while also maintaining control over their safety and wellbeing. Yeah.

Sarah (45:53)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. My rule

of thumb is kind of like if no is an acceptable answer, it can be a question. If no is not an acceptable answer, we're going to have to pick something else. You can't, you have to wear shoes to the park because you have to. So do you want the blue shoes or the white shoes? Right? Not, because if I say, do you want to put your shoes on? He'll be like, no.

Chelsea Myers (46:23)
Right, like, shoot, give options that get you to the place you wanna go. ⁓

Yeah!

No!

Sarah (46:37)
And that's right. But

like same thing. And I actually was really impressed with my doctor because he just had his three year checkup recently. And before she wanted to like, you know, look underneath his underwear, she said, okay, it's really important that I tell you what I'm about to do. But I also would like to ask both you and your mom if it's okay. And if you say no, that's okay. And also,

Chelsea Myers (46:56)
Wow.

Sarah (46:59)
everyone should be asking this type of question. That's not your mom or your dad, everyone should be asking this type of question. I was really impressed with that because it teaches them early on what that is. I think speaking of kind of like generational things, I feel like we were always kind of forced of like, go give your auntie whoever a hug. And you're like, I don't really want to. So it's balancing that and also like allowing him to be who he is, but he also needs direction because he's three.

Chelsea Myers (47:15)
yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Sarah (47:26)
If it was up to him, he'd be eating candy and watching whatever in his underwear only all day, right? There needs to be some direction here.

Chelsea Myers (47:27)
Yeah.

Yes, I would

have Paw Patrol on 24-7 with a constant stream of goldfish and or donuts and that I mean, yeah, and a diaper and not a diaper, a pull up and no clothes.

Sarah (47:42)
Yes.

Yeah.

Or

yeah, you're like, okay. So it's balancing all of that now and figuring out the best way to empower them and let them be who they wanna be. And interestingly enough, he's a vibe, all right, my kid's a vibe. That's the only way I can explain it. And his birthday was recently and I asked him, said, what do you want your birthday party theme to be? And he said, rainbow. I was like, just rainbow? He's like, yeah. I got shade for it.

Chelsea Myers (48:03)
Yeah, I feel that.

For having a rainbow party for... And I'm assuming, yeah. And I'm assuming it's the whole gender LGBT, yeah, okay. Yeah.

Sarah (48:19)
Mm-hmm. He's three. Mm-hmm.

Mm hmm. I said, when I asked him,

when I asked him, Hey, why do you love rainbows? It's all the colors. So I don't have to pick one a smart. he's like, they're fun. And I'm like, he's he's three years old. He is a happy go lucky. He's vibrant. He's fun. He's funky. He likes what he likes. And that's what he asked for. If he had asked for sharks, I would have done it if he had asked for

Chelsea Myers (48:37)
Yes. Yes!

Sarah (48:55)
you know, whatever I would have done it, but that's what he asked for. And most people were very normal about it, but I did get a little bit of shade. They were like, you know, you're teaching him that that's okay. And I'm like, cause it is. ⁓ Like it is, like I don't understand. And so kind of like balancing that too of like, you're always going to get opinions. And I don't really care, but.

Chelsea Myers (49:06)
It is okay.

Yeah.

You

Sarah (49:23)
Like it's just weird to me, I'm like, really gonna have an issue with a three year old's birthday party?

Chelsea Myers (49:28)
Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm really sorry that that I'm sorry that that touched something in you that that you know, I, I love these are my, I'm not supposed to have favorites, but these are my favorite kind of episodes because I go in with I don't ever really go in with an assumption, but I usually go in with an idea of a direction.

Sarah (49:29)
But it happens.

I was like, whatever.

Chelsea Myers (49:54)
of an episode that the episode might take. this has completely been like, we're not even on the same boat that I thought we were going to be, which is so not that we aren't like we're on the same boat together. But the this is I love this. I just love this. We missed the other boat. Oh my god. No, but it's but it's perfect because

Sarah (50:08)
Right.

We missed the other one. I mean, shocking to no one. I've derailed something, like literally. ⁓

Chelsea Myers (50:21)
we're talking about things and we're normalizing things and it doesn't always have to be a sad story or it doesn't always have to be trauma. There's space for that. And we talked about that too. Like we talked about those things that are real and that are heavy. And then we also talked about how both of us, you and I are both in this season of parenting. We're both parenting three-year-olds. I'm really curious to know your, my daughter just turned three, like on June 27th.

Sarah (50:31)
Yeah.

June 13th, there are weeks.

Chelsea Myers (50:51)
Yeah, very close. Very close.

So we are in a very similar season of parenting our three year olds and that's a vibe and that's its own thing. And it's okay to talk about that too. And highlighting like you have beautifully so many times that your story is not my story is not the next person's story is not the next person's story, but we can still find common threads and we can still sit together and we can still

Sarah (51:04)
Yes, yes.

Yes.

Chelsea Myers (51:20)
We can either just sit and be, or we can laugh like we've been laughing and be like, this is really effing hard. This is hard. Like, yeah, it is.

Sarah (51:31)
then it's the beautiful

things. Like he crawls into my bed in the morning and he's like, I love you and just wants to snuggle for a little bit. he also has meltdowns because he's demanding to bring a fake skeleton around that we got during Halloween. And I'm like, you can't bring that into like, you know, like there's big feelings and it's, it's, it, and I like to say this too, is like what I struggle with now is not what I struggled with when he was a newborn or when he was one, because it changes really fast too. And

Chelsea Myers (51:47)
Yes! Yes.

Yes.

Sarah (51:59)
you know, sure, he sleeps like a rock now. And so I was really sleep deprived when he was a newborn and there was all these other things. And now I'm not experiencing some of those, but it brings about a new round of things. And it was funny because like sometimes I'm like, as I asked my mom, like, I don't know what I'm doing. And she's like, you're 36 and I don't know what I'm doing. So I was like, ⁓ helpful.

Chelsea Myers (52:22)
Yeah, I am. You know what, though? She said the thing she said, because I have said those exact words to my mother. I'm like, Mom, first of all, I don't feel like an adult. Second of all, I don't feel like I can be someone's mom. Like, when does that change? And her response was just like, ⁓ I don't know. Like, it'll come to you. No, your mom said it out loud.

Sarah (52:43)
Yeah.

Yeah, she's like, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm like, you have four kids?

Chelsea Myers (52:52)
And isn't it so funny to think back when we were younger and we're like, oh yeah, mom, mom's a grownup. Mom, mom's knows what she's.

Sarah (52:56)
Yeah.

I distinctly remember when my mom turned 40 being like, oh my God, she's like 40, that's crazy. And thinking they know it all, right? And then come to find out my mom's like, I had no idea what the hell I was doing. None, I'm like, great. So it brings me comfort in a way too, because I think a lot of times it's trial and error and it's being willing to just kind of roll with it and go with it. And I think a big piece of it too is like admitting I don't always get it right. I have to apologize to my kids sometimes, I lose my temper.

Chelsea Myers (53:08)
Yeah.

⁓

Yes.

Sarah (53:31)
I am not always this even keeled person in therapy for a long time that's really working on it. I lose my shit sometimes and I don't get it right, I don't do it right and I have to apologize to him or say like, hey, FYI, that wasn't great. And I think it's important to admit those things too of like, you're not a bad parent if after the 700th time your kid throws something directly at your head, you kind of lose it a little, right? you're not, you know, so.

Chelsea Myers (53:55)
Yes? ⁓

Sarah (53:59)
I don't know, love talking about this stuff and I'm so glad that you kind of went with this because I feel like, I don't know, I feel like parenting goes in so many directions and we've just been kind of chatting, but I think we could talk about this for probably 10 more hours experiences, yeah.

Chelsea Myers (54:08)
my gosh, yeah.

that's the challenge. That

right. That's the challenge of trying to do this as a podcast, because really we could we could keep just talk about it and talk about it talk about it. But it is my job as the host to steer the ship a little bit. So I am going to try to like I'm going to try to wrap it But yeah, I I just I love so much about it and it also

I love the vibe. love being able to meet another person who feels so passionately about just being vulnerable. And being vulnerable is not a scary thing. it's also not like sometimes when you hear the word vulnerable or vulnerability, you almost like curl in on yourself. And I don't believe that. I honest, I picture an open book. Like I just, I just picture like this is me and this is what it is. And you can be here with me in it.

or you don't have to be and that's cool. And so I love meeting people who are kind of of that mindset because that's what we need more of, especially in the parenting space. Especially in the parenting space. I'm curious and I probably, again, I don't like to assume but I think I probably know the answer. Do you, your son's three, but my daughter's three as well. ⁓

Do you kind of talk about this kind of stuff with him in terms of like mental health and feelings and big feelings and stuff like that?

Sarah (55:37)
Yeah, you know, I try to, especially if he has some big feelings or whatnot, we kind of try to talk about it of, okay, like what were you feeling? I was feeling angry, okay, why? And I try to remind him it's normal and it's, I'm not scared of your feelings. I am not scared of any type of emotion that you have. It is 100 % normal and okay to have all of these feelings.

but what we do with them is important. And I haven't really gone into like, I had post-OCD intrusive thoughts. He doesn't really like, you know. Yeah, but I definitely will say, especially if I do something, I will say like, you know what, buddy? doesn't always get it right and mommy was feeling really frustrated and she shouldn't have yelled or she shouldn't have done that.

Chelsea Myers (56:09)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

for a few years down the, yeah, yeah.

Sarah (56:33)
Sometimes mommy gets sad, sometimes she's happy. He's seen me also like crying before over like, I'm not gonna lie to you, I was like crying over a TikTok of like, God knows what, but I was crying. And he's like, ⁓ yeah, he's, are you sad? And so I think it's important that he sees me in those different types of states too, because I think a lot of us grew up, at least in our generation, our parents did not break frame. And it was really hard.

Chelsea Myers (56:46)
We've all been there. Yeah.

Mm-mm.

Sarah (57:01)
to like they never really, they did it in private. And I think a lot of us are just more open now. And so we talk about it. And if I do get angry at something or if I'm frustrated with him and whatever, you know, we talk about it. If he's upset about something, I also try to like encourage it when he's really excited or happy too, right? Like, oh my gosh, this seems like this was something that was so fun for you. What did you like about it? It seems like it made you really happy. So we talk about it a lot.

Chelsea Myers (57:21)
Yeah.

Sarah (57:28)
I will continue to, my household is very open about that. So he's gonna be hearing about it for the rest of his life. We try to make it as normal as possible that feelings are here. Everyone has them. Not every day is the same. It's okay if you get frustrated. It's okay if you get upset. It's okay if you need help, if you need. And then I ask him too, like, do you want space or do you wanna hug? Do you want to?

Do this or do you wanna do that? Right here, there's options that we can do when you're feeling frustrated. Have a drink of water, go take some space, go cuddle up on the couch, give a hug to mommy. Like there are a variety of things that you can do here to help. We're working on it every day, right? But we do talk about it a lot in our house, yeah.

Chelsea Myers (58:10)
Yeah?

what I think I love the most about literally everything you just said is that you could say the exact same thing to a mom, to a new mom, all of those things that you just said to new, to new moms or seasoned moms who are feeling like, suck at this. This is hard. I don't like it. I suck at this. Nope. You're allowed to have feelings. You can feel your feelings. Everybody has feelings and you can take a break or you can drink some water.

Sarah (58:20)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Chelsea Myers (58:42)
Everything, it all applies.

Sarah (58:45)
It all applies and I think giving them the empowerment to say like, okay, and he frequently picks different things. Sometimes he wants the hug, sometimes he's like, need space and I'm like, you know, sometimes it's whatever. I think it's important for him to also see me as valuable, right? Like, hey, you know, I am a bad bitch, right? I am, but also I have bad days. And some days,

Chelsea Myers (58:54)
Yes!

Yeah.

Sarah (59:12)
Honestly, the other day I was just in a rotten mood and could not get out of it. I was rotten all day, unsure why, right? Nobody knows. And I even say to my husband, like, I don't know what's going on, but I'm rotten right now. And I'm sorry, but I'm gonna be rotten. And just heads up, right? Like, I don't know what's going on with me. I woke up the next day, felt much better, right? Like, I think even just communicating about it in general in your household where I'm like, it's nothing you're doing, PS. I'm just feeling rotten, so.

Chelsea Myers (59:19)
Who knows?

Yeah!

Yeah.

Sarah (59:40)
a

heads up, you know, it'll pass. And the next day I told him, I was like, I feel better. I'm good. I don't know what that was, but it was there. So I think it's just, it doesn't leave people wondering too of like, did I do something, you know, or is mom mad at me? Or I think it's just open, open layers and just keeping it really clear of like, Hey, I just feel like crap today and it's going to be what it is. And FYI, up.

Chelsea Myers (59:53)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, and that's

okay. And that's okay. That's how today's gonna go. just wanna say again, like I have loved this conversation because it's been so layered, but in the best ways.

Sarah (1:00:10)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chelsea Myers (1:00:22)
We've talked about the hard, we've talked about the joy, we've talked about the intrusive thoughts, and we've talked about the glimmers. And both of us know that this is gonna change, it's gonna keep changing. And the things that are challenging, right? And the things that are challenging today might not be a challenge tomorrow, but there's gonna be something else that we're gonna learn that's gonna come I always end my episodes on one of two questions, and I...

Sarah (1:00:34)
Probably in a half hour.

Yes.

Chelsea Myers (1:00:50)
use the majority of our time to decide which question I like to get to know you before I decide which question to ask you. And I think the one I'm going to choose for you is we've talked about so many things. Well, before I ask the question, these will be in the show notes, but for the people who don't check the show notes, which you should, there's good info in there.

Where can my listeners find you if they would like to learn more about you?

Sarah (1:01:18)
Yeah, Instagram's usually where I am the most active, at sarahdjonston. That's typically, well, you'll get ahold of me the fastest. You can also shoot me an email, sarah@ sarah-jonston.com. Pretty active in there as well, but I always love connecting with people. Please, some people are always like, I was a little scared to DM you. Never be. I love it. I live for it. Live for it, so.

Chelsea Myers (1:01:40)
No, I feel the same way. I feel the same way. I'm

like, please, please DM me. Yes.

Sarah (1:01:46)
always,

always, always open and I would love I would I love more internet besties. So come at me.

Chelsea Myers (1:01:51)
Yes. Okay, perfect. And again, check the show notes friends, because there's gonna be a lot of good info in there. back to there was my mom brain back to the question. we covered a lot. But if you had to pick just one nugget, just one little thing that you hope my listeners walk away with when they listen to your episode, what do you hope that is?

Sarah (1:02:15)
Connection is powerful and you are not alone in any experience that you might be having and people wanna be there. So don't feel like you have to go at it alone. Use your support, use your people and lean on that. Cause honestly, if we don't sometimes also just like laugh about it, we'll cry. Community, community, community, community and find it and lean into it.

Chelsea Myers (1:02:35)
Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (1:02:41)
Huge thank you to Sarah for sharing your story with so much honesty, humor, and heart. If you're nodding along or feeling less alone after this episode, I want to hear all about it. You can find Sarah on Instagram at Sarah D. Johnston. And as always, everything we talked about is linked in the show notes.

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