High-Functioning Depression in Motherhood - Kendall's Story

What happens when you spend your entire pregnancy "preparing for battle" only to have the reality of motherhood still knock you off your feet? I’m connecting with Kendall Concini, a mental health advocate and author who knew her history with depression meant she couldn’t just "go with the flow."

Kendall opens up about the "ick factor" of sensory processing issues during pregnancy , the long six months it took to finally bond with her daughter due to silent reflux and feeding trauma , and why she decided to have a second child almost immediately, before her brain could talk her out of it.

We also dive into Kendall’s beautiful new book, which uses the analogy of a "cloud" to help children understand that Mom can be sad without it being their fault. This is a masterclass in self-advocacy, breaking generational cycles, and realizing that you are a worthy parent, even when you are facing mental health challenges.

Key Takeaways

• The Power of Pre-Pregnancy Planning: Kendall didn't wait for a crisis; she built a "team" including a therapist and supportive friends while she was still pregnant.
• Sensory Overload is Real: Pregnancy and breastfeeding can be overstimulating for those with sensory processing sensitivities; it’s okay to acknowledge the "ick".
• The "Delayed" Bond: It took six months for Kendall to feel a bond with her daughter due to medical challenges like silent reflux and tongue ties.
• The "Cloud" Analogy: Teaching children that mental health is like weather—it's something that happens to Mom, not something caused by the child.
• Advocacy Over "Glow": Rejecting the pressure to "glow" and instead demanding empathy and the space to be miserable when things are hard. 

Links:

• Follow Kendall on Instagram: @CloudyDayChronicles
• Read the Blog: Cloudy Day Chronicles 

This episode discusses topics that may be triggering for some individuals. Please check the show notes for more information and be mindful of your own mental health and comfort levels.

Visit our Patreon to help support our mission to normalize the conversation and end the stigma surrounding PMADs!

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Chelsea Myers (00:52)
Hello! This morning I'm here with Kendall. Kendall, how are you?

Kendall Concini (00:57)
Good, thanks for having me. How are you today?

Chelsea Myers (01:01)
I'm doing okay. I always tell my guests Monday mornings and Friday mornings, I'm a little bit fried. But usually by the end of chatting with you guys, I'm all jazzed up and ready for the day. So I'm excited. but yeah, Kendall, rather than me go through the list of things that I know about you and what you've been up to, ⁓ I'd love it if you could introduce yourself to my listeners and let us know who was Kendall before.

starting your parenting journey.

Kendall Concini (01:31)
So I'm Kendall. I'm a huge mental health advocate, ⁓ now turned author because of that. And I am just so thrilled to be here because talking mental health, talking struggles, who was I before parenting? ⁓ I didn't think I was going to be a parent. Like I knew I volunteered with kids. I worked with kids. Everyone thought I'd be so great at it.

And I have depression at the time it was generalized anxiety disorder, now ADHD diagnosis. And so always stopped myself because there's the, when you have to be home with it 24 seven, how do do it? ⁓ and so when my husband and I decided to have kids, I was in a, like a really balanced place and

when we told people we were going to have kids, we had to like make sure everyone knew it was on purpose because I've been so adamant like no kids, I'm not going to do it. I was like, it is on purpose. And then it was kind of gearing up for postpartum. So was like, I'm I have depression. I know that's just going to be like, it's going to happen. And so I

really became this version of myself that was like preparing for battle. And so I got a therapist, I got a team, I found like pre mom friends while pregnant and stuff and was just kind of like preparing for the whole motherhood journey and what was going to come. And then, you know, all of my expectations hit. So it was such an up and down experience. And I love that there are spaces like this to talk about that.

Chelsea Myers (02:46)
Yeah.

Yeah, ⁓ you just answered like five of my questions in like less than 30 seconds. So we're already on a roll here. but what stuck out to me most is you're not the first mom that I've spoken to who, I mean, has a history with mental health has a history with generalized anxiety or depression. and you're not the first mom that was like, okay, this is probably gonna happen.

So I'm going to prepare for it. And I'm super curious to dive into that a little bit more because every experience is a little bit different when it comes to that. So my first question is, yes, you had a history of mental health, so you kind of knew what to look out for. Did you have any knowledge on what perinatal mental health disorders were or could be prior to

deciding to get pregnant.

Kendall Concini (04:07)
No, I think it's, you know, the TV look, right? Like you see some shows and it just looks like the gimmicky, uncontrollable crying, which did happen to me, but it just, it didn't look like a lot of the small things. And a lot of people weren't having that conversation to just have like a little wave and go like, like this doesn't feel great.

Chelsea Myers (04:18)
You

Kendall Concini (04:33)
I mean, I knew I wasn't, I'm sensory based. So I knew I wasn't going to enjoy the feeling of the belly and the movement in there. And so there was just kind of like this ick factor, but then the hormones started shifting and it was when you, you know, you had posted something recently about like grieving for yourself and losing yourself. Like I, I didn't expect to be excited.

and then really grieving at the same time in it. And I think that wasn't explained. Like, yes, you can say I'm going to cry and get stressed, babies crying, stressful, pumping hormones and stuff. It was the kind of like fighting your own brain aspect a lot that was more shocking. And, you know, I can prepare as much as I can. But then some of the stuff that started to kind of hit in there

people aren't really honest about it.

Chelsea Myers (05:27)
Yeah. And you hit on things that are super important to me and that I talk a lot about, the idea of and. And we talk about, we talk a lot about duality, but that kind of signifies two things when in fact, like you can feel all the feels ⁓ all at the same time. So like that you can be like, well, you can, you can be grieving, but you can also be excited. Well, I like to say and.

Like you can be really excited about this pregnancy that you planned for and wanted to have and feel the ick. Like that ick that you were talking about, I completely relate to being pregnant felt like having a parasite. And right? Like, and that's kind of, guess, taboo to say, but I was just like, ⁓ like stop move. Like, I mean, don't stop moving, but like,

Kendall Concini (06:07)
Yeah.

Yes.

Chelsea Myers (06:24)
I don't like how this feels. This is really sensory overwhelming to my nervous system. So I totally relate to that. It's also interesting to me that you sort of, or it sounds like you started gathering a team early. It sounds like these things were affecting you in the perinatal period as well. So even before baby came, so you really were trying to build a village in preparation. What did that look like?

Who were you bringing on your team?

Kendall Concini (06:54)
So first it was, you know, when I, when I told my husband like, let's try and he was like, are you serious? And I said, yes, but we really have to like talk through like all of my fears with this, like everything. And we have to constantly talk about them and you have to constantly refute it to me. ⁓ cause we had fostered and so a lot of it was anything negative I was putting in my head. said, you have to use like.

pictures of our time together with the fosters, or you have to use positive things and my love language shifted to I need affirmations, notes, reminders. I found a therapist who I said, I'm really here to catastrophize and talk worst case scenario for everything and just on a loop to exhaust myself. So then when good stuff happens, it can just kind of refute it. And then just finding that group of friends that was okay. I think a big question was like,

People ask you, how are you doing? And it's so like general. And I'm like, do you actually want to know? Because I want to say I'm miserable. And I want that to be OK and not like a, but you have so much. And like, no, just I want to sit with it. And ⁓ Brenee Brown did the really great video, Sympathy Versus Empathy. Like, I would send that to people. And I was like, you need to watch this. And you need to read her article. And you need to know that next time you ask me, how am I?

Chelsea Myers (08:09)
You

Kendall Concini (08:14)
You just need to sit and say, I'm sorry, you're awful and not anything else. And so a lot of it was like preparing people to know that I just needed to get out the honest answers and find who is willing to honestly like stay in that and not just be like, you're supposed to glow. then if you don't ghost you. So was like, that's okay. It hurts, but you then, you know, cause I was like, it's going to get a lot harder than this. So.

Chelsea Myers (08:33)
Yeah.

Kendall Concini (08:41)
It was kind of equipping myself with all of those people and pieces to it.

Chelsea Myers (08:47)
it sounds like you were an incredible advocate for yourself. I'm not sure if it felt empowering in the moment or if it felt like more of a chore to kind of explain to everyone exactly what you need, but

I just want to like voice that and recognize that that you really did advocate for yourself and for what you needed throughout your pregnancy. And that's amazing. That's not something that a lot of parents do get stuck in that like, well, I should be grateful and I should feel happy that this is happening and I'll just say I'm fine. What did you feel empowered throughout that process? Yeah.

Kendall Concini (09:27)
No, ⁓

there's like, part of where I started in like, my book journey and blog is just writing now, like looking back. And I think a big thing was when I started my Instagram too, I shared some photos of like chaotic moments. And I said, I used to take pictures of the bad moments. So later, when it's not bad, I can remind myself like you made it through that. And it

The depression that I already had on top of what happened prenatal was the self-doubt, the imposter syndrome. And so a lot of it was, I shouldn't have done this. I'm not going to be a great mother. When my daughter had, she had a hernia, she had like stomach issues. And it was like, I, you know, made a bad baby because I'm the worst. And you keep telling yourself that. And then when you do everything right, like she just, she ended up being fine. Her language took off. She's advanced. I,

Like I had a hard time crediting myself. I was like, I don't know how she and everyone's like, it's you. And now it's it's fascinating for myself because I like through all of that self doubt, you know, writing the book and getting it out there. Everyone, you know, not like they compliment it. And it is amazing because I am like now going, ⁓ OK, I'm like a poster child for depression. And so but it's weird because I'm like I.

Chelsea Myers (10:28)
You

Ha!

Kendall Concini (10:50)
You couldn't tell me this then, because then when you're in it, it is like that is louder than it should be. And then when you're having kind of a sunny day and going like, okay, I made it through that and I advocated for myself and trying to see it as a strength. It's, it's a process. You know, you never know if I'm going to feel like this tomorrow. So you kind of just try and, and, have that always a balance.

Chelsea Myers (11:13)
Yeah.

Yeah, that is incredibly relatable. am 100 % like, vibing isn't the right word, but like I know that feeling that imposter syndrome that doesn't go away. And I love that you're talking about it, not because it's like,

Yay, let's talk about imposter syndrome. But like, let's normalize it, right? Because I think there's so many more of us than not, that have those same feelings or similar feelings. So I'm really excited to dive into the book, but I want to like take us down the journey and on the path. So let's let's bring it to when baby arrives when your daughter was born.

What was that process like for you? What like how was your mental health in terms of like it's go time for baby?

Kendall Concini (12:12)
I just like, I remember being very excited leaving the hospital because it was like, finally all of that's over. She came really early and there was like all of the emotions around that. And we were driving home and my husband was like, they just let us take it home. And I was like, yeah, like, yeah. And then you forget everything you like pre-read and stuff. And she, it was like,

Chelsea Myers (12:30)
Yeah!

Kendall Concini (12:38)
She had silent reflux, but for the longest time, they couldn't figure that out. So it wasn't like colic. It wasn't reflux because she wasn't spitting up. ⁓ So now if you ask her and she's four and her language is great and her voice is adorable, you'll and you say, ⁓ how are you as a baby? She'll say I was a terror. And it's cute because she's a four year old. But we we try and be honest with her. Like I didn't bond with her for like the first six months. She had a tongue tie. A hospital screwed it up. So she

Chelsea Myers (12:56)
No.

Kendall Concini (13:08)
had trouble eating. like hated eating with me. She like, she had trauma from being on my breast and the tongue tie hurting. So anytime she got close to me to eat, it's like memory. And so my husband had to feed her. He had to like hold her a lot. She didn't want to be against me. So it was just this people didn't

Chelsea Myers (13:20)
Yeah.

Kendall Concini (13:29)
want to like hear that I'm like on the floor crying next to her and stuff or asking people like, can you take her for an hour just like, they're like, no, it's your newborn hold it and like take it for an hour. Like, it is okay. And, you know, when you have to put the kid in the other room and let them scream and just walk away for five minutes, and then you feel guilty walking away for sanity. And it took a while to kind of

Chelsea Myers (13:41)
Yeah.

Kendall Concini (13:53)
get through all that and remind yourself like, we did this because it is going to be okay. And we're going to get through this and we're stronger than this. And one day she'll have a redeeming quality. didn't smile for the longest time either. So we were like, just give us something like stop screaming at us, give us a smirk. Eventually she ended up being really gassy and we got like fake smiles and we're like, we'll take it. And so it just, we have like photos where we kind of ended up

putting her like as the screaming crying like in movie scenes and making it into like her own little joke with blanket art and stuff. And so it was just a lot. And then everyone's just so excited to say, isn't it great? And you're like, do you want the real answer? Because just give her, give her time.

Chelsea Myers (14:25)
Ha

Yeah. Were you able to give the real answer to anybody?

Kendall Concini (14:44)
To some, yes. There were admittedly like mom friends. There was a really great mom app. It was like Tinder and you swipe and you make friends. And so like I had made friends with a ⁓ bunch of people at the time. It was like a work from home mom. And as she was hard and I was just like, this is hard. I don't love her all the time. Can we like take our kids somewhere where they can sit there and we sit here? You you lose some people who just want to be like, no, everything is awesome.

And then you keep some people who are like, did we just become best friends? I'm like, yes, let's put them over there to watch each other. So it's a learning curve. And so like that hurt too, because you want, you think you have this group to like bond with and form. And that's why we say like now my like core crew and stuff and who's going to kind of sit with you through the mess.

Chelsea Myers (15:19)
Yes! ⁓

Yes.

Yeah, I'm curious to know too, I know what it was like for me, but did you notice a difference in your general depression that you had familiarity with and understood and then the shift after you had baby?

Kendall Concini (16:02)
Yeah, with general depression, it can be like cause and effect in my head. So something happens and you start to like recognize the patterns of like sinking under because of an event in life response to that. And with baby, it was just the hormones of like, I don't know why. Like I would be home and we would both be sitting on the couch and she'd like,

Well, not cuddled, but we had to hold her up like on an arm and bop her. And I'd be like doing that and she'd be calm. And then you just like lose it. And you're like, I don't, I don't know what, but it, it's the feeling of like, is this going to stop? Am I going to ruin this? Is she going to be okay? and then when I was like pumping and trying to get milk and stuff and all of the self doubt comes in, it was just way more unexplained. So prior to baby.

Chelsea Myers (16:37)
Mm-hmm.

Kendall Concini (16:58)
If I was having like a little depression wave, I can tell my husband like, well, this is going on and I just need to process and cope this. And with baby, I was just like, I don't know what's going on. It just showed up out of nowhere. ⁓ And so it just felt really like a lot more unexpected. And, you know, they'll say like, that's your hormone shifts and that's like the nursing and all of this. like, I don't like it. Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (17:23)
Yeah, it doesn't make it any easier. You're

like, thanks. Now what? It sounds like you and your partner were really good at communicating through this whole thing though. ⁓ sometime? Yeah. Well, talk to me about that a little bit. Because I'm curious, like how did you guys navigate those first few weeks together?

Kendall Concini (17:29)
Yeah.

Sometimes.

⁓ we were very lucky and unlucky because she, like, we are pregnant and then COVID hit, so everything like shut down. ⁓ and so we, we were home together in it. And I think we just got really good at tagging out. So he knew, ⁓ that we would talk about like taking a step away. So there was a lot of times that I would be up at night and I'd be trying to like nurse or pump and then nurse and.

Chelsea Myers (17:57)
Mm-hmm.

Kendall Concini (18:18)
he can just hear what was going on and he would come in and be like, tag out. And you would say like, no, no, no, I got it. And he's like, no, like we made this rule, like tag out and we would switch. And then we set kind of boundaries on like, okay, we know that if we are going through this and losing sleep, it's going to be worse. So like I would sleep from like nine to 11 and he would take over from like 11 to two and we would kind of rotate. And so it was just this finding.

openness to say like, need to step away, you need to do this. And so we created that rhythm of it. And then also the spaces. So we made sure because we were home and COVID was closed that like if we had to do something like feed the baby, which was difficult, we would do it in that room. So it wouldn't be like it's constant everywhere and always around us. So we would kind of space out our house and had the luxury to do that at the time. ⁓ And then just

making sure people were available. he would, know, do you need, you know, do you need a book? Do you need to call a friend? Like, what do you need to get through this? And so kind of we would have also like touch bases. So, you know, what's the temperature today? And we would talk about it in the mornings and stuff.

Chelsea Myers (19:32)
Yeah, yeah, I love that so much. even though you say like it didn't feel empowering at the time, I think your nervous system was so overwhelmed. hearing about it now, it's like, that's...

Kendall Concini (19:42)
Mm-hmm.

Chelsea Myers (19:46)
That's badass. Like you guys really did set up everything as best as you could for each other. And even then, it's not easy. And it's not rainbows and sunshine. And, and that's in your book too, a little bit. And we'll talk about that. But like, but it's not, it's not always this glamorous thing, but you guys were there for each other.

During this time, what were some of your coping skills and resources that you were using? Or did you have any, like in terms of out, like therapy or things like that?

Kendall Concini (20:21)
Yeah, I was seeing a regular therapist. I also had a really great ⁓ support group. So it was virtual and we would go and kind of chat about ⁓ life at the time and things that were going on like specific to that group. then I had the close friends who I knew like if it's 11pm call them if it's 2am call them. ⁓ I love reading. So I think the first year of

my first child, I read 120 books, and it was just sitting in nursing and reading nonstop. So I made a point that like, I hated nursing. So I bought myself like a new book I wanted, and that was by the nursing chair only. And then I got to like dive into it. And so pieces like that. And then I like running. So I would go on a run and kind of escape. We did a lot of walking hikes.

It was also COVID, so outdoor time was like the only thing allowed and kind of regular loops and things. ⁓ And then at the time there were just things going on that everyone was online and virtual. So there was like virtual board games and virtual podcasts and happiness places to go. And so it was just trying to find stuff to break up the routine and get through it.

And that's why it was so interesting. Like with my second, I had all of that in place, but the magic to this second one was at that time, my daughter was two. And because she was there and I felt like if I was going to do the same thing I did in post-natal with her, that she would see it. And that was like a huge fear is like what happens. And that's kind of where the book comes from is like, what happens if she sees me go through that and she's too young?

to understand what it And so a lot of what I experienced with her, luckily I did not experience with my son because she was there to kind I had to keep like living. Like I couldn't pause and have a mental breakdown because she wanted to play. And so I had to kind of, she really shifted my focus and I was like, I didn't go through it as much because I didn't want.

her to outwardly see it a lot. And so I was able to use a lot more of our tools like us reading together, us going to the library, us going on a walk. So when I felt it coming on, I was like, okay, let's change the environment. Like, let's focus on this. And so it wasn't as bad the second time around.

Chelsea Myers (22:52)
first of all, like, I love all of the coping tools that you talked about. And I think I especially love them because a lot of the parents that I talked to who had COVID babies,

talk about how isolating it was and how different it was and how, there's one point to like, you don't have to be at work and you can be at home, you and your partner are both at home, but usually it's, and this is totally valid, it's talked about kind of in a negative and isolating and lonely time. And I loved hearing you talk about all of the opportunities that you did have because the world was shut down. Like,

I had to get out and go hiking because I couldn't go to the movie theater or I couldn't go shopping or like, and my partner was home, we were both home. So it's just, it's interesting to hear that perspective on it. so you talked about not bonding for quite a while.

when did you notice the shift and what was kind of the like tipping point where you're like ⁓ something's different now

Kendall Concini (24:02)
We have a book for when my daughter is 18. I wanted a son. I wanted a son so bad. And when we popped that gender reveal tube and it was pink, the picture and the video is my face like, and it is awful. And we were doing, it's a book where it was like a write a thing a day. And I wrote to her through the pregnancy in the first year of her life. And it was, what do mean your girl?

Chelsea Myers (24:17)
no.

Kendall Concini (24:30)
This is gonna be hard. ⁓ And then when she came out, she looked exactly like me. Like she still does. It just was spot on me. But then it was also really hard seeing like her cry and my emotions on her face because I'm like, that's yes, that's what I look like right now. And so all of the positive reasons you have a kid to like, yay, a mini me and cuddle and do all the things together. She wouldn't eat. She wouldn't...

be held like we never held her like a normal baby. ⁓ You had to have her face down on her belly with pressure and you had to constantly move like people didn't want to hold her so they always gave us back. She was always screaming. And so it was a lot of did I do this? This wasn't what I signed up for. ⁓ Just this is not the ideal and then it was guilt. It was guilt because my husband was like, you know,

No, it's he's a lot calmer and more patient. So it was kind of that like, did I give him a defective baby? And I know that sounds horrible saying because she's fine now. And I'm like, you weren't defective. Well, if she if she was like, what do you think wrong with me, mom? like, there was a lot wrong with you. And so it was just this constant like

Chelsea Myers (25:34)
No! No-

Kendall Concini (25:47)
this, like, where's the redeeming happy? And like I said, she wasn't smiling. She wasn't calmly sleeping on us cuddling and stuff. So it was just like, everyone says you love the newborn phase, because this is the time you get. And I'm like, she's not doing any of that stuff. So I want to just be like, she's noisy, and I can't sleep and I can't feed her and I can't like she, she wasn't latching. So I wasn't pumping and, and all of that. And so the shift was

Finally, when I had noted to the doctor, because we were constantly going to the doctor and calling, I was like, she arches really weird. And they said, well, maybe it is reflux and she's just not spinning up. So they put her on reflux meds just to try it out. it clicked. Like she finally settled down and you can hold her. And this is about six months in. And even the doctor was like, she's a much more pleasant baby. And we were like, we know.

Chelsea Myers (26:43)
Hahaha!

Kendall Concini (26:44)
And so we were able to hold her and we were able to like have her lay on her belly. And like, then she started smiling and it was just like, okay, here are finally like good parts spliced in. And it was just this complete different experience with her. And then it was great because when my son came out, he looked exactly like my husband, which weirded me out a lot. Like I couldn't, they went so.

Chelsea Myers (27:08)
Ha ha ha!

Kendall Concini (27:11)
like latch him on and I was like, it looks like a 40 year old, husband. was like, I can't look down while he's like nursing. But he smiled right away and I was like, all right, we're fine. He's smiling in the hospital, like we're fine. So it was the shift of like, you need something. You need to get like the smile from the baby. You need to get your first good cuddle. You need to get some kind of moment with them. And we didn't have that

for a while and I don't know like if parents out there don't, people don't want to like don't understand that you need that to kind of be like, yes, this is my wonderful what I was looking forward to. And when you get out and it's just all the hard parts, nonstop, it's like, yeah, you're gonna doubt what did you just do? Because you also have to be home. Like my husband and I used to travel all the time. I'm like, we're not gonna be able to travel ever. Like she's so loud. You can't bring her anywhere.

Chelsea Myers (28:00)
Yeah.

Kendall Concini (28:09)
All those parts!

Chelsea Myers (28:10)
Yeah, I remember texting a friend and being like, I think my baby hates me. And it was the same thing, right? It was the same thing. like, she's not smiling. She's never happy. She's got this. This was my second, not my first, but I was convinced that she hated me. ⁓ And again, those feelings of like, what's wrong? What did I do? Something's wrong. Somebody doesn't know what's going on and we have to fix it.

Kendall Concini (28:17)
Exactly, yes.

Chelsea Myers (28:39)
Yeah, so when you say like if other moms can relate to that, my god, yeah. Follow up, which kind of like ties them together is after experiencing all of that and all of that hard and all of those feelings, when did you decide? Yeah, right? When did you decide like, let's do this again?

Kendall Concini (28:59)
I like, know where you're going. Why have another?

you

I grew up really close to my brother when we were kids. Unfortunately, I don't talk to him anymore now, but I have that void of having a sibling now. My husband is really close with his sisters. So we knew we weren't like only child people. We knew we wanted bigger family. When we had left the hospital and I told you the joke, I had joked back with my husband. I was like, well, you can ask them a year from now.

when we come back for the second one, because we knew we wanted close ages. That was really important in what was really great about my husband and his sister's relationships. And it was kind of ⁓ maybe some of what happened. My brother and I, it's just the gap was big. And so when she was really hard, I would just tell him, I was like, we're going to have to go right away then. Like, if she starts getting easy,

and life gets better, I am never gonna throw myself back into this. And so that was part of it. was like, we knew too that after all the big milestones, so after she speaks her first words, after the first steps, that's when we would take an us trip and like let her stay with the grandparents overnight. And so we went on that us trip like a year later and I was like, all right.

this trip is not only us, this is like baby making trip. Cause if we don't do it right away, my brain is never going to go back into it. So we were still kind of in the trouble with nursing, trouble with pumping phase. And I said, while it's hard, we just have to keep going. Cause like, I already have the therapist, I already have the support groups and the steps. And so that's why we went right away. And then,

Chelsea Myers (30:26)
Ha ha ha!

Kendall Concini (30:49)
My son came out so different and everyone's like, ⁓ like if he was first, and I was like, no, because then it would have been worse with her second. And so it was just this relief of like, he came out smiling. He ate nonstop. Like he was, I don't want to like two months early, he went into the NICU. So he had his own postpartum issues, but it wasn't the same. Like he would cuddle nonstop. It was like this.

This is like what I need it, but I had gone into it ready for the worst. was like, all right, like we pre one of our big things with the second was I pre-bought formula in bulk. So that told me that when you want to quit pumping, you already spent the money quit because I was so stubborn with quitting pumping with my first, because it's the mom guilt of like, I should be able to do this. And I didn't. ⁓

but I went to formula right away, sanity, it just saved me. And then we kind of, that second kid, we weren't so picky about the timing and the everything. That one's fine, the nook dropped, it's okay. The dog's kissing him on the mouth. It's like that kind of like, the little sanity moments that we got over with the second one really quick.

Chelsea Myers (32:14)
second kids are built different and and you're a different person you're a different person at that point right like and especially you you guys like you went through the ringer with your first you kind of were like battle tested so when the when your son came along you were like okay i'm prepared and then like you said he was smiling at the hospital like that must have been that must have felt overwhelming

Kendall Concini (32:17)
Yes.

Yes. ⁓

Chelsea Myers (32:40)
so let's sort of talk about how this journey kind of like transmuted itself into

you writing a book. And again, I love I'm obsessed with picture books, number one and children's books. I am now through meeting so many incredible parents like you, obsessed with books that are kind of like masked as children's books, but also really for mom or mom and dad, which I think your book is like, and I don't

Kendall Concini (33:13)
Mm-hmm.

Chelsea Myers (33:14)
I'm assuming that was intentional?

Kendall Concini (33:17)
It's not even mass, it's straight up for mom. I tell people, was like, I'm not like the book you put in a stocking for the kid for Christmas. I'm the book like you give mom when she calls you at 2am and you say, hey, it's going to your house tomorrow. Like it is for mom. It's written from mom's perspective. I've been fighting the traditional market on that. But as I work with ⁓ mental health organizations, like everyone's thrilled about it.

Chelsea Myers (33:19)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kendall Concini (33:45)
And really I wrote a book because I couldn't find it. So when I was having those depressive moments with my daughter, ⁓ she like, picked up on observation, she picked up on language. And so she would kind of check in like, what's wrong? And I had to keep saying like, it's not you, like, I'm not crying because of you. And so I started to talk to her about an analogy, like she loves water. I do not, not the water parent.

and so I would talk to her with this story about like, know, how we go to the beach and you love it and mom doesn't, because I just have a different experience. That's how I would talk about what was going on that day. Like you were really happy. Mom just eh, is over here. And I started to use a cloud analogy that said like, you're all in the sunshine and mom has this little cloud and it's shaded right here only. And I was like, you're in your sunshine. And so I would use a cloud.

hello to show her like if mom's sad because you know something's going on with your brother or life and anything. I would hold the cloud and say it's the cloud it's not you like I'm just need to cry and we would talk about like mom just needs to cry and you know my husband was great at saying mom needs some time to herself let's go over here and so it became this bedtime story about us being at the beach and.

having that experience. Like we all go to the beach and I'm always really excited in the car and then we get there and I just want to sit and read my book and not do what they're doing. And so that was my way of explaining to her, sometimes you guys can do what you're doing and mom's going to be over here like I am at the beach. And so I turned that into a story where I do show that everyone can show up somewhere and it looks different to someone and what they're experiencing is a cloudy day.

And so in the book, it's great because the picture book aspect is how to explain it to a kid. ⁓ My daughter won't say mom has depression, but she will say mom has a cloud. And the book shows that everyone's all sunny and bright and mom is dim and that can shift throughout the day. So mom's going to rest a little bit and then she comes and plays one game and she's a little brighter, but that doesn't mean everything's better. means she played a game.

She needs to go back to sitting and resting. so that was my goal with book one is writing about like, you can participate in the ways that help you. And so one scene is mom just really needs to lay down and they want to play in the sand. So they compromise and they bury mom's legs in the sand as a mermaid. And so the idea is mom didn't need to like get up and jump around and dig in the sand. She needed to rest.

but she can still be there with you and still love you even if she just needs to rest while you play around her. And so that has been something that I just want out there in the world. So like if any mom is up at 2 a.m. and like, I feel like I'm the worst. I'm like, there's the book and then I have a blog and it's just like, you can talk to your kids about that and you can say, I'm just having a cloudy day. It's not you, it's something with me and I just need time to find my sunshine again.

And so that's what I've been doing with my daughter and what's been resonating as I kind of meet new resources too. Like I'm trying to build a lot of back of the book resources and build a lot of resources with local organizations to put on the blog and just have that conversation more and kind of back to one of our original questions is like.

find my strength in, okay, yes, I went through this. I'm going through this. I will always go through this. I'm not gonna fix myself with depression. I don't need to fix myself. I just need to be my authentic self. Some days are super sunny, some days are cloudy. And so that's been my journey with it.

Chelsea Myers (37:37)
Yeah.

love it so much and I was so excited when you sent me the digital copy so that I could look over it and I'm gonna gush for a little bit because ⁓ there were so many aspects about it that resonated with me and it's kind of like what you were just articulating. So something that was repeated to me during my journey.

Because I had this self-doubt, right? Like I can't, I'm not a good mom because I'm experiencing this and I can't interact with my kids the way that I want to. And I had the question asked like, why can't you be a good mom and experience these things? And it's just like you were saying, you can all...

be in the same situation, you can be in the same physical location, you can be doing the same things and experiencing them differently, and it's all valid. It doesn't mean you're a bad mom. It doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. It means there's a cloud on you and there's sunshine on them and that's fine. You're still there. You're all together and you're worthy of being together and deserving of being together. So I loved that. ⁓ That hit me right in the feels.

I also loved the portrayal of your partner and your daughter throughout the book. So your partner is just this amazing thing like, kind of like conduit between the two of you at times. And sometimes you do the explaining. Well, I'm saying you it's it's the mom character in the book, but right, it's you. So sometimes you're doing the communicating, but sometimes you

Kendall Concini (39:17)
Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (39:22)
I mean, I don't know if this resonates with you, but sometimes I can't communicate how I'm feeling. And there were moments in the book where dad was like, mom, mom just needs to sit and we can go do this. So it demonstrated that beautiful like partnership and communication and open communication. And then I love, go ahead.

Kendall Concini (39:44)
That was actually,

that was like a huge thing with my first editor because he was like, you know, struggling with like children need a book to be about their point of view. And I was like, no, they can experience someone else's world. And so he goes, okay, well then let's just have mom say all of these lines. And I said, I can't because when you have a cloud, you can't tell yourself you're fine. I was like, absolutely not.

Chelsea Myers (39:58)
Yes!

No.

Kendall Concini (40:11)
I was like,

maybe now, like on a podcast, they could be like, yeah, I'm strong. It's not all of me. But if a cloud's here, I'm not going to say that. So I said an important thing is and has been is my husband. he doesn't always come up with it on his own spoiler, but I do send him articles. I send him things and say, when I'm down, this might sound good to me.

Chelsea Myers (40:28)
Hahaha

Kendall Concini (40:35)
And then he will repeat my words back to me to say, remember once you were able to say this. And so that was what we did try to get across in the book is him reminding me of things that we all as a family talk about on sunny days to say, remember, this is what we talked about once and kind of bring it back. And it was fun writing those lines because a lot of them are literal quotes he has said to me. And so then I had to fight with like,

Maybe it doesn't sound great in like the mass market book, but I can't change his like literal quote in my head in life. And my daughter wrote some of the lines too, which are the more ridiculous ones, but that was the same thing. It was like, this is what a four year old would say to mom in this moment, because that is what they said and were capable of repeating back in those moments.

Chelsea Myers (41:16)
Hahaha

That was that was what I was gonna say was that I love that throughout the book, there was never this sense of like pity or confusion or anything. It was all so normalized. And like, the daughter, the little girl in the book was never I mean, I won't say never. She was obviously like concerned, like, she's like, what's mommy doing? But there was never a sense of like, what's wrong with mommy? Like, how can I fix this? It was more like, okay.

It was just like this, this happens. We know how to navigate this. We can talk about this and we can still have a good day at the beach. that like when I talk to guests and one of my favorite questions to ask is like, do you talk about mental health with your kids? Like you've kind of already answered that but like you do it in such a natural and developmentally appropriate way that now

is this book that other families can use. just, yeah, I love the analogy of the cloud. I love that it started as a story that you and your daughter talked about, and now it's a literal story that other families can access. I guess, what is your, well, I also heard you mention, you said my first book. Are you working on more books?

Kendall Concini (42:51)
Yeah, I do. I love my illustrator. So I did like sign on for three books with her. I just wanted to like, also like hang out with her more. I mean, I told I when we signed, said, you know, I want it I had three ideas, because depression looks different to everyone. So I wanted the first book to be like, this is what depression looks like to me. I am a high functioning depression person. go out and very extroverted.

but I go out and I show up different based on what's going on, but I will always push myself out. I know there are depression where it's introverted. And so I want it to also capture that in the book. And then I know there's like the opposite end where, you know, book three is really like, maybe mom isn't capable of going. And so the day is about, you know, them just checking in on her and them having their time.

and things like that. And so the idea was to have three books that just kind of represent it in different ways and write through that. And, you know, to back up to what you're saying that I think you had a post recently too about not saying because like as an expert, because I'm certainly not I have my failures with my kids and my positive things. But I think in talking about mental health at the younger age,

I had been able to like unlock something for myself in the sanity of parenting. And so as we talk about mental health, my daughter can understand what a lot of parents have, like you push yourself to do and you lose yourself so much. And so your post was about like, I don't always love playing with my kid. And I'm like, I used to be a stay at home mom. I left my last job.

Chelsea Myers (44:26)
Yep.

Kendall Concini (44:34)
I was so upset about it because I loved my job, but I had very sexist bosses and I wanted to do maternity leave with my son. So I left my job and that crushed my identity. And I was home 24 seven, which was a very lucky experience. We saw everything in the first of our kids. We grew up with them, but you are on 24 seven. And so with my daughter knowing about like the cloud analogy and what is hard, we are able to talk.

through when we're having a hard day. So if she is playing horsey for the eight millionth time, I will just tell her, I'm like, mom does not love horsey. Mom doesn't love playing it. I don't want to play it today. It's just a lot like you take you time for 30 minutes, then we'll play a game we can do together. And we have that conversation a lot. And I see when some people are with us and they're not like used to being so open with like a four year old and stuff. And I'm like, are our

Chelsea Myers (45:10)
You

Kendall Concini (45:33)
quality of communication with her is this like generation cycle breaking aspect to me that's just so cathartic because I can go in and she's horrible at bedtime because she's four and I will tell her like if you don't stop screaming right now mom does not like the noise it's gonna give me a cloud I'm gonna leave and I will tell her like I'm going to leave your room because this is really hard for me and I think like if

I can tell her that because she responds well to it. She'll start taking breaths. And if I do leave, because she doesn't, she'll kind of reset herself and come out and say, like, I didn't want you to leave. And I'm like, why did I leave? And she's like, screaming was a lot. And I'm like, it's just, it's calming. Like, and it doesn't always work, but the fact that we are somewhat brave enough to kind of talk about our emotions with our kids.

means now she talks about her emotions with us in a different way that's just screaming and the unregulated four-year-old. And some days everything fails and she won't get through it. And that's when we're like, okay, she's still four. But some days she can really grasp it. And we're like, we're getting somewhere ahead of time. And we need to, because she's a mini me. We're going to sync up one day. Like we need to do the groundwork. Do the groundwork now.

Chelsea Myers (46:58)
you put that so beautifully. I think there's this ⁓ whole taboo about like, well, don't put your feelings on your kids or, and that's not what you're doing at all. And talking about these things, it's exactly like you said, like you're being transparent with them, number one, and you're not putting any blame on her. You're saying like, I'm overstimulated. Like you're not saying those words explicitly probably, but like, or maybe you are. ⁓

Kendall Concini (47:26)
Maybe I,

the key is, and I do try and find that balance because I have like, know, childhood trauma, ⁓ very broken mental health conversation home. So my parents were very supportive in the way that they were very supportive. They did better than their parents. So they think like, this is the best I can do, but it's not.

When you talk about mental health, when you are open to conversations, that is the best you can do. And so I grew up a very parentified child. I was responsible for my mom's mental health because my dad would say, you know, him and my mom would have some kind of fight. And then he would say, you know, go watch movie with your mom. So it's me taking care of my mom because something was going on. I didn't understand until high school, until college, until all of it, what was dysfunctional in

their relationship that I was responsible for making my mom happy. And so a lot of it was I am my mom's person too young. And I had a great relationship with my mom. We did so much together, but it wasn't until later realizing that I was like forced to do that. And it was a different relationship than just like being fun friends.

I think that was part of all of it was just talking with my daughter about, know, this is going on because me or this is going on because me and dad, me and this. And here's how it's not you. Here's how we can play together and we can do this together. But why? And kind of that is the shift in like Montessori language too, like not just saying no to a kid, but saying like, I don't want you to do this because

because here's what is going to happen. And so I think we need to kind of get to that place so we don't have a continual like, because I told you so, parentified aspect. And then what happens is like in my case, the first time you have that conversation, you're in college and you're in therapy and you're unpacking stuff and then the resentment builds and you can't get anywhere because it's too late. And so that's why we've tried to say like, we're not.

Chelsea Myers (49:22)
Yeah.

Kendall Concini (49:41)
dumping heavy things on her. Again, my book never says, mom's depressed. It just says, mom, mom's not having the same fun you're having and that is okay.

Chelsea Myers (49:45)
Yeah.

Yeah, I love that you mentioned the why. We never got the why as children, exactly as you said. It's because I'm your dad or because I said so or don't talk back, right? Like we never got the why. And I think that there is a shift, at least I'm seeing it in like millennial parents and a little bit younger, but like we can explain the why and that's okay.

yes, like all of the things that you are sharing about and all of the core messages in your book, and I'm so excited for there to be more books.

⁓ really resonate with me and I know they're going to resonate with other parents as well. I have one more question before I do our wrap up question. So your youngest is, He's two now. So what do those sort of interactions and conversations look like with him? Because that's a very different developmental stage, but I'm, mean, he's

gotta be exposed to these same things too.

Kendall Concini (50:54)
He's just so different. We have to like remind ourselves their ages too. So if you meet my daughter and I tell you she's only four, like it blows people's minds because she does argue like a 10 year old and it just, she is ahead with her language and we have to remind ourselves also not to be like disappointed in her sometimes because we say like, you know better, like she's still four somewhere. ⁓

Chelsea Myers (51:08)
Ha

Kendall Concini (51:21)
my son is two and he did not take to language as fast as her and we have to remind ourselves that he's not behind or anything. He's just a normal two-year-old. It's easy. And so he really takes to like her lead in her direction. So if we are saying to her like, can you go play and do this? She'll just know like, she'll say, okay, Max, come play with me and stuff. so it's him kind of following.

He also is really good at like, he can, he's very much a mama's boy right now. Like he will not hang out with my husband, but he can tell when I'm just like sitting and it's different and he'll like come lay and snuggle and stuff. So I think in his own way, he is kind of sensing what's going on in the house and following where he needs to go. But he has his own emotions. He likes to be a rock and he'll kind of like sit and huddle and he'll go off to the side. So I think he's recognized that when someone needs time,

that my daughter and I do go in our own direction and take our time. And so he has started to do that and he will go do his own thing when he needs to. And so I like that his personality, though he's not like as talkative as her is coming out in the way that he takes up space and holds his own like where he needs to be in it. And so I think before and we kind of got like excitedly tangent it but

what success in the book looks like for me is just that. My family gets it. I feel validated in like, yes, I knew the decision to have kids was because I can do this despite everything else that goes on. And so them taking to the message of the book and

them sharing it and having this common language with us. It's been great in sharing the book with family and friends because now I can text them and be like, a cloudy day, we're not coming. And I don't have to follow it up with a reason. And I don't need the why because that conversation is in our space and we just kind of universally get it. And I am, you know.

I told my husband, like, we might not make any of our money back and that is fine. I also plan on like donating a bunch of the books. So we were looking at budgeting the other day because it's like dropping right after the holidays. And I'm like, just so you know, we need to put all this money aside because I'm going to like donate it to all these mental health groups. but that's it. It's like the, language is out there and whether it looks like my daughter and I talking through it or my son just kind of sitting off by himself, it's just been different to everyone who needs it.

And I'm also excited, like the book's gonna come with some like swag sheets and stuff to just say like, draw what it is for you. Is it a cloud? Is it another like weather object? Is it something recognizable to yourself to just say, this is what it looks like when I'm processing my emotions and how you can see what's going on with me, even though it's this like invisible cloud.

Chelsea Myers (54:24)
Yeah,

ugh, ugh. I am so excited. I know, I know. I don't have words. I'm so excited. I think ⁓ what I've appreciated most about this chat and this conversation is how easy it has been to just talk about the messy, the not so fun, nothing out of your mouth has... I don't even feel like whether you do or you don't.

Kendall Concini (54:26)
You

Chelsea Myers (54:54)
When you speak about this, I don't feel shame. I don't feel, this has been such like a safe conversation. This has been such a vulnerable conversation. And I so appreciate that because that is exactly what we're trying to do here, right? We want to be able to talk about these things with each other because more of us are experiencing them than not.

And that's okay. And if you're not experiencing that, that's cool. We're really happy for you. That's wonderful. But and not but and we can hold space here too. So this, my goodness, I have, I've loved this conversation. I love the book. cannot wait to share it with all the people. before I get to I'm doing things a little differently for my for my wrap up before I get to that.

Where can my listeners find you and find the work that you're doing?

Kendall Concini (55:54)
So I am on Instagram at Cloudy Day Chronicles. And then that shares with the blog, cloudydaychronicles.wordpress.com. I'm not great at website making, so there is an author page, but I'm working on it. So that's on the blog, which is the cloudydaychronicles.wordpress.com. I have figured that one out, so that one's not changing. But my goal is like,

Chelsea Myers (56:07)
You

Kendall Concini (56:17)
people connecting on the Instagram, people sharing stuff that I could re-share. That's how I found you. And it's just the more like we all have that same conversation is just making sure that when someone, whether it's a mom, a non-parent, just sitting there and searching and wanting to look up like, hey, I'm having a cloudy day and having people find something that says it's okay to not be okay.

Chelsea Myers (56:44)
Yeah, I love it. I'm so glad that we found each other and yeah, and that we have had this opportunity to chat. okay, now comes the challenge. I'm challenging my guests now. So I'm taking us back to before the days of cell phones. ⁓ I'm not gonna even try to age you, but I will tell you I'm an elder millennial. I remember when you had to call the landline and hope that mom or dad didn't pick up.

Kendall Concini (56:54)
Mm-hmm.

Chelsea Myers (57:12)
especially if you were calling a crush. ⁓ yes, get off the internet. I'm trying to get off the phone. I'm trying to get on the internet. So I'm going back to those days where we were not instantly reachable all of the time. And if you called someone and they didn't answer, you had to leave a voicemail. So you called quiet connection today and my next guest. It wasn't here. You. And so you don't know them.

Kendall Concini (57:15)
Or that your internet wasn't on and you kicked everyone out. Yes.

Chelsea Myers (57:41)
you don't know what their story is, but you called and you gotta leave a message. What message would you leave for my next guest?

Kendall Concini (57:50)
Am I getting like a beep in?

Chelsea Myers (57:52)
Some people ask that and I think it's

so funny. No, I'll just go, okay, right beep.

Kendall Concini (57:59)
I am so excited you are on. Remember, be your authentic self because people want to hear what you are going to say. Whether it's the masses, don't worry about it. At least one person needs your message. Say it, be loud about it. This is a safe space and we are so thankful that you are sharing. Beep!

Chelsea Myers (58:23)
I love that. Beep!

Kendall Concini (58:26)
That's it. Click. I'm a click. Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (58:26)
so much. Yeah, click. That's when you had to actually put the phone down.

Or if you had a cordless, you could push the button. ⁓ but I love about it is that every message is different and it's kind of a little ploy because you have to come back to the, to the episode before yours to get your message. Right. Yeah. And I'm really interested to see, so guests and future guests and past guests, if the message resonated.

Kendall Concini (58:45)
yeah, I do.

Chelsea Myers (58:55)
I have this, I'm a little woo woo if we're really going to get into it. So I kind of believe sometimes that the messages that are meant to find you will find you. So I'm really interested. Have to see when you come back, you'll have to let me know if that message resonated with you. But.

Kendall Concini (58:58)
Hahaha

now like missed opportunity. Make them tell a joke. My daughter's learning jokes and she's just so bad at them. So I like, I should have set up like, can you please share a joke so I can have her hear a good one?

Chelsea Myers (59:27)
my gosh. They don't get better at the, mean, my oldest is 10 and her jokes are just barely starting to get funny. So yeah, I've mastered the fake laugh. She's like, you don't really think it's funny.

Kendall Concini (59:38)
you

no,

that's where I'm honest. People will tell her that's so good. I'm like, don't tell her that then she won't try harder. I was like, tell her you could do better. Like, and we do, like she'll draw sometimes and people like, it's so great. I'm like, no, it's not. You've had better horses. Like, let's go. I have so much fridge room.

Chelsea Myers (59:47)
No!

⁓ my

God, I love that. So I don't know. love it. I have so enjoyed chatting with you today. I'm so glad that we connected and I'm just really excited to get the word out about your book. So thank you.

Kendall Concini (1:00:04)
You

Thank you.