Advocacy is Love in Motion: Parenting a Child with Intensive Needs - Nancy F's Story

This week, Nancy Ferraro shares her raw and honest journey into motherhood after adopting her son George from Romania. George, whom they affectionately called "Hurricane George," arrived at age four with a host of unexpected disabilities, including Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, leading to extreme violence and behavioral challenges. 

She opens up about the immense shame and guilt she felt, the trauma inflicted on her older son, and the agonizing decision to place George in a group home, which she describes as the best decision she ever made for him. Ultimately, Nancy shares how she turned her struggle into strength and realized that "advocacy is love in motion".

To learn more, visit Nancy's website.

Key Takeaways

• The Fixer Mindset: As mothers, we often believe we can fix everything with enough love, leading to self-blame and isolation when facing complex, unfixable challenges.
• Adoption Challenges: International adoption can bring unexpected challenges, and it is common for parents to live in denial for years, delaying crucial planning for the child's future.
• Systemic Roadblocks: Government and school agencies often fall short in providing support, forcing parents to become "Tiger Moms" and demand respect and services, often learning the most from other mothers with lived experiences.
• Daily Trauma and Grief: Raising a child with violent behavoirs can lead to post-traumatic stress disorder, and the experience is often likened to "a new death" every day, preventing full grief and healing.
• Reinventing the Relationship: Placing a child in a group home, while painful, can be the best decision for the child, providing them with a fixed schedule, trained staff, and a safe environment where they can thrive.
• Vulnerability Creates Community: Sharing the raw truth, rather than a "fluff piece," is what creates the community, solidarity, and hope that other struggling parents desperately need. 

This episode discusses topics that may be triggering for some individuals. Please check the show notes for more information and be mindful of your own mental health and comfort levels.

Visit our Patreon to help support our mission to normalize the conversation and end the stigma surrounding PMADs!

Transcript

Chelsea Myers (00:00)
today I am here with Nancy. Nancy, how are you?

Nancy A Ferraro (00:04)
I'm well, thank you for having me.

Chelsea Myers (00:07)
I'm so excited to chat with you. I especially love the connections that I make through PodMatch ⁓ because I get to learn a little bit about you beforehand. But I'm excited to chat. for my listeners, I would love it if you could introduce yourself, let us know who you are today, and who were you before you started your parenting journey?

Nancy A Ferraro (00:31)
is a great question. Wow, it seems like a lifetime ago. My name is Nancy Ferraro. I am now a Florida-based estate planning attorney, and I am also the author of an award-winning memoir called When the Bough Breaks. Years ago, when I had a little four-year-old, I decided that I wanted to give my son a little brother. And for various reasons, we adopted from Romania.

Chelsea Myers (00:33)
You

Nancy A Ferraro (00:58)
George was four when he became a member of our family, but he arrived in the suburbs of New Jersey, a feral child. He was a wild animal in the body of a boy. And with a host of disabilities that we weren't expecting, from fetal alcohol syndrome to attachment disorder, low IQ, the extreme behavioral challenges, we came to know George as Hurricane George. And so that was almost a decade, almost every day.

of my being the victim of the violence that the fetal alcohol syndrome produced in him. So before I became George's mom, I was very wide-eyed. I believed that I could solve anything with enough love. I'm a mom, I can solve anything. So the challenge and the lesson for me through all of this, know, hindsight's 20-20. While I was going through it,

Chelsea Myers (01:46)
Mm-hmm.

Nancy A Ferraro (01:56)
It was very dark and I believed that there was no end in sight. There was no light at the end of the tunnel. But what I realized was that we're all stronger than we think we are. You you deal with it. And that asking for help is not a sign of weakness. It's actually a sign of strength. And being on the other side of it is so amazing. It is such a beautiful gift because now

Chelsea Myers (02:08)
Mm-hmm.

Nancy A Ferraro (02:24)
I can lead other parents through. And I did write a book. won a national writing competition. And I wrote it to shed light, share hope, and form community. So I'm thrilled to be talking to you about that today.

Chelsea Myers (02:38)
Yeah. And I'm so excited. I'm excited to be talking to you about it as well. This, ⁓ I get there's so many aspects to your story and we're going to get into it. that I know will resonate with so many families and so many families that have experienced something similar, but just like everything we talk about on Quiet Connection, it's so stigmatized and people aren't talking about it. And the more that we talk about it, just like you're saying in your book,

creates connection, creates that solidarity, and it creates the ability for people to feel safe in asking for help. So yeah, I'm like I said, I'm so grateful and I'm excited to kind of get into this a little bit. So let's go back. Let's go back to the beginning. Even before the beginning, did you always envision yourself having children? ⁓ yeah.

Nancy A Ferraro (03:33)
yeah, I always believed

that I could do it all. I was gonna save the world with my little briefcase and I was gonna raise the world's most perfect children. Well, they're perfect in their own way, right? They all come with their challenges, but it's something I always wanted to do and I feel like a nurturer. Of course, there's no manual. And that was the worst part because you feel like you're making it up as you go along. Every day is different.

Chelsea Myers (03:39)
You

Nancy A Ferraro (04:01)
and there's nobody to call, say, you know, or somebody to say, go to page 243 of the

Chelsea Myers (04:06)
Yes, exactly. Right? We all had the what to expect when you're expecting but that does not prepare you for having an actual child. Yeah.

Nancy A Ferraro (04:15)
That's right. Right. And

so the fact that I had a typical child first and then a typical child, they were different, but they were the same in a lot of ways because they were each challenging in their own way.

Chelsea Myers (04:31)
Yeah.

Nancy A Ferraro (04:31)
So whether

your child is just defiant, whether your child has a drug problem, alcohol problem, criminality, it's all the same because when we can't fix it, we as mothers believe that we can fix everything, right? When we can't, not only do we blame ourselves, but society blames us. It's a very isolating, very lonely So if you think about son of Sam, if anybody remembers son of Sam killed all those people.

Chelsea Myers (04:46)
Mm-hmm.

Nancy A Ferraro (05:01)
His mother never wrote a book. All these people have committed horrific crimes, gone off the deep end, because we don't want to talk about it. But guess what? It's incumbent upon us to talk about it. I had a responsibility to write this book. I didn't even have a choice, because I survived. And we're all vertical, right? We're all basically thriving. And I thought, certainly, I'm not the first, I'm not the last, I'm not the only.

Chelsea Myers (05:18)
Mmm.

Nancy A Ferraro (05:28)
But when I was going through it, I felt like I was the first, last and only, right? So mothers and or anyone who has stood in the shoes of motherhood need to know you're not alone. And I just had a conversation yesterday, was a Zoom call about business. And I started talking about the book and the gentleman I was talking to ran and got his wife and she's crying because she's in a situation where her older child hates the younger one with the special needs and...

And it was almost like she just started flooding because she knew that somebody else had gone through it and someone else survived it. And so many times we cut ourselves off from that because I don't know about you, but I never wanted to join a support group because I don't want to get embroiled in everybody's. You get into these rooms and everybody's complaining and you just get dragged down. Right. So I always fought the support group model.

Chelsea Myers (06:05)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Nancy A Ferraro (06:25)
But I formed my own support group and I thought, you know, other people should not have to do this. You should not have to reinvent the wheel. I've reinvented the wheel. Let me share this with you. Certainly what I went through for almost a decade should not be for naught.

Chelsea Myers (06:35)
Yeah.

I love I love too that you are so candid about about your approach to all this right like because it's not a one size fits all thing. The the support group model so like full disclosure, I'm a I'm a advocate and volunteer for postpartum support international and we really advocate for support groups and we have so many of them and I facilitate some of them. That's not going to work for everyone. But

That doesn't mean that there isn't somebody or something out there that you're going to connect with that can give you that, that little tiny glimmer of hope when you're in your darkest moments. Right. So I love that you highlighted that and that you kind of took that on and created your own space of support. I'd love it if we could kind of start from the beginning. So I know we're going to, we're going to talk a lot about.

Nancy A Ferraro (07:22)
Right.

Chelsea Myers (07:39)
We're gonna talk a lot about George, but you also, have another child and the journey to that child was not straightforward if I'm remembering correctly.

Nancy A Ferraro (07:51)
Right. So we had this wonderful, amazing child. And what I'm about to tell you is going to sound very weird and oogie. But when I was holding my older son in my arms, I remember having this thought and being so grateful. Everything was perfect. And I was so happy. And I remember thinking, I so wonder why God did not give me a special needs child because I could so handle one.

Be careful what you put out there because then I ended up with George and remembering that I called him, you know, the world. Think what you want, whether it's God or karma or the universe, you put energy out there and your angels, whoever it is, they hear you and they bring it, right? So not to get all spiritual and weird about it, but when I got George and I thought, my gosh, I put that out there.

Chelsea Myers (08:24)
Yeah.

Yeah.

almost like a manifestation. Yeah.

Nancy A Ferraro (08:49)
I know, crazy. So I'm thinking

millions of dollars, angels hear me. So I'm putting it out there, millions of dollars bring it. So yeah, it's the weirdest thing, but I feel like I was meant to raise George. Not because I'm special, not because I'm knowledgeable, but because I had ESQ behind my name. And...

Chelsea Myers (08:56)
Yeah

Yeah.

Nancy A Ferraro (09:14)
I wrote every letter to every agency, to every school district on my law firm letterhead. And it wasn't that I knew anything. It was that, and this is sad, it's very sad. People just assumed that I had knowledge power and I didn't, but their assumption gave me that knowledge and power. So I worked very, very hard to empower not only my clients, but parents to...

have that attitude because you are the expert on your child. You are the expert. And when you're walking into an IEP meeting or you're walking into an agency and you're asking for something, you're not begging, you're not looking for a favor. You're just demanding respect. And I try to instill that in all the parents that I speak with because they feel disempowered by the system. I'm gonna fight the school district? Well, I fought the school district.

Chelsea Myers (09:47)
Mm-hmm.

Nancy A Ferraro (10:13)
I didn't have any special education knowledge, but I ran all of Georgia's IEP meetings and I would stomp my feet and pound the table and somehow that got results.

Chelsea Myers (10:15)
Right.

Yeah. Yeah. mean, let's, let's talk about it a little bit because it is it's ironic. I do come from a special education background. I was a special educator intensive needs special education ⁓ for 10 years before stepping outside of that. And I am a parent.

of neurodivergent children. So I kind of see it from both sides of the table. I have had those parents come to the meetings that feel so disenfranchised or who feel like they don't have a voice. And I have had the parents who come to the meeting with an agenda and a get it done attitude and everything in between. And I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume.

as you, I mean, as you were getting to know George and as you were learning to advocate for him, it wasn't an immediate like, okay, I got this. Or maybe it was. No, no. ⁓

Nancy A Ferraro (11:19)
No, it wasn't. No. So when you

get a diagnosis from a neurologist that says speech delay, you think, oh, I'll just love it out of him. It'll just take time. It's a delay. No, it's a medical term of art. That means a permanent disability. So it took me a long time and a lot of experts. I mean, I drove up and down the highway. I remember pulling over to the side of the road and just screaming at my insurance carrier because they sent me to four different.

⁓ psychiatrist who just wrote six prescriptions and said, let me see him in two weeks. Never looked at my child. Never did any kind of deep dive into it. And frankly, I was on a mission for the cure because I'm still mom, right? I'm still going to fix everything and I'm going to cure this. Well, you hit your head against the wall enough times and you have a doctor back you up against the wall and say,

Chelsea Myers (11:54)
Mmm.

Nancy A Ferraro (12:18)
Are you going to, you know, it was a come to Jesus moment. You have to adjust your expectations. You have to adjust to the symptoms. There is no cure. And I went to, as far as going to Virginia, we found a doctor on Dateline, believe it or not, right? And he is called the emperor because he is the leading expert in the country on Eastern European adoption.

I sat in front of that TV and shook because everything he was doing with those children resonated. And I thought, my gosh, this is the rest of my life. And when I contacted him, I never thought I would hear back. We were in his office within two months, which is crazy because I thought I had found the cure and I found the guy, right? He is the golden God of international adoption. Guess what? George is so severe. He wanted to see him. That's why he made room in his calendar.

And he sat me down and said, you've got a life sentence here. And there was a lot of alcohol that night because you know, you're going to someone you think is going to give you the key to all of this, unlock it all. And what you're getting is, no, this is what you're stuck with. And this is how we're going to treat it. And the training and protective holds and all of that. I thought, my gosh, this is my life.

Chelsea Myers (13:41)
Yeah. How did that? So you say, you said you, there was a lot of drinking that night. how did that hit you as I keep hearing you describe yourself as like the mother, as the fixer, as someone who envisions herself as the fixer. When someone says, this isn't something that's going to be fixed. It's something that's going to be accommodated. How did that hit you?

Nancy A Ferraro (14:09)
It's a moment of failure on multiple levels, right? So our marriage didn't survive, but you know, that was to be expected. But I also had an older child in my home and I was trying to make life as normal as possible for him. And the fact that I blame myself for stealing his childhood to give one to George, that I don't think that guilt will ever go away, even though

My oldest son has turned into a wonderful, empathetic, beautiful human that I don't think he would be if he had not had this experience. But I know there's trauma. I know there is going to be something in his life that I caused and there's no way that I am ever going to relieve myself. First of all, I'm Catholic, so, and Italian. So the guilt goes all the way around, right? So that is something that I will be working on for the rest of my life.

Chelsea Myers (14:47)
Mm-hmm.

The guilt, right? The Catholic guilt. Yes.

Nancy A Ferraro (15:08)
but also having failed George, having failed my family, and my adoption agency offered to allow me to abort the adoption. And I thought, great, what is that? First of all, if I had sent George back to Romania, I have no doubt in my mind that he would be dead in a very short time because they didn't care for the children, he'd be on the street, it would be just horrific. So I would be condemning this child to death. And then I thought about my older,

child and I thought, well, what is that teach your older child that people are expendable that when they get inconvenient. So you're, you know, you're foisted on your own petard, right? You can't pull the sword out. You can't leave it in. So what do you do? And that moment was probably the darkest because I just felt like I'd failed everyone.

Chelsea Myers (16:01)
Yeah. I, I so appreciate, I mean, it's up to this point, your vulnerability. My kind of my tagline lately has been like your vulnerability is your strength. Right. But

it is so important to talk about these things in such an honest way, in the way that you are. Because for a lot of families who are navigating, I mean, whether it be through an international adoption and like you said, like a lot of the time, you're not entirely sure what you're getting ⁓ when you meet this child or whether it is, it's your biological child and they have intensive needs. ⁓

or low incidence disabilities. I think a lot of people have this vision of disability as the cute kid in the wheelchair, or you know what I mean, or like the little boy who's deaf and...

There are so many families who are struggling with safety. There are so many families who are struggling to literally just get through the day and hope that their child goes to sleep at night so that they can go to sleep. And it doesn't diminish your love for either of your children. It doesn't diminish your determination. And then also acknowledging that shame and that Catholic guilt, which I still can't shake.

⁓ I no longer identify as Catholic, but that Catholic guilt, man, that'll stick with you for life. And I don't want to diminish that either. So like when I say to you, when I say to you, I don't think it's your fault, any of it. I know that that doesn't take that guilt away. So I want to hold space for that.

But I also want to acknowledge what a badass you are because despite those feelings and despite not having a background in these things, you did leverage what you did know and what you did have and you fought. You fought for George. Talk to me about the early days when you were navigating what this new reality was going to look like.

Nancy A Ferraro (18:18)
We had George when he was four and I had seen him and the first time I saw George on video, he was three and he was so adorable and I was physiologically pregnant with him. The moment I saw him, that's my child I need to rescue. And believe it or not, from day one to the day we got George, it was nine months, almost to the day, right?

Chelsea Myers (18:32)
Yeah.

Wow.

Nancy A Ferraro (18:44)
So was like a full term pregnancy. I was nesting, I was buying stuff, it was crazy. But we got there and George would run away from me and laugh. And I thought, well, he doesn't know me, right? So he, when we first checked into our hotel in Bucharest, they had those old timey luggage tables, you know, the sharp, remember those sharp wooden, George ran into it, fell down and he laughed. And I thought, ⁓ he can't get hurt. And then I got him

Chelsea Myers (18:57)
Mm-hmm.

Nancy A Ferraro (19:14)
ready for his first bath. And when I undressed him, there was this huge gash. So these children were raised to not cry because they, first of all, they wouldn't be attended to. And then they were trained to get adopted. He only said mama the first time I saw him. And he only said tata, which is daddy, the first time my ex-husband saw him. Those words never came out of his mouth again. Until we were in an elevator.

going up to see a psychologist who we left in tears. But he's getting, George is getting in the elevator and there's the UPS man and George takes the UPS man's hand and says, Tata and I broke because my husband was so crestfallen. We had just spent a King's ransom, come from an international trip, made all these provisions and.

tried so hard and here's this kid calling somebody else daddy.

And my heart just broke for him. So when at the beginning, he wasn't acquiring language. And I thought, well, I'll just speak to him in Romanian because I had mommy Romanian, wash your hands, brush your teeth, be careful, it's hot, all those things. And time went by, he wasn't answering me in English. He wasn't answering me in Romanian. And he didn't seem to understand anything I was saying. So we started out in the ESL class, English as a second language, and the teacher's calling me.

He's not picking it up. I think he needs to be in the special needs classroom. And that's basically when I lost my mind because I thought I can't, I don't know anything about this. And I just can't wrap my arms around it. The first summer we had George, I could not have picked up the phone to make a call on his behalf, even if you held a gun to my head, because it's denial. You don't want to believe.

And over the years, I've met so many parents who for years and years and years have lived in denial. And now they're aging and they have 40 year old special needs children in their home. They have no provision for them. They have no plan. And that's heartbreaking because when something happens to those parents, either they get too old to care for that person or they pass, there's going to be a very traumatic transition for that child. They act out.

the elope, the commit crime, and it's not fair. So we owe it to our children. I am just so grateful that I broke out of it because had I not, there would still be George sitting in the corner with his thumb in his mouth. So I'm very grateful that I shook myself and picked a mentor who I met in the grocery store, by the way, a mom in a grocery store.

Chelsea Myers (21:58)
Right.

Right? The most unlikely places.

Nancy A Ferraro (22:11)
I can't

even tell you. I've gotten more information from other mothers than any agency, than any facility, because frankly, they don't want to help you.

Chelsea Myers (22:20)
Yeah, I mean, it's it's

Nancy A Ferraro (22:20)
They don't want to do their jobs.

They're government employees. Not to say all government employees are this way. This was my experience. I had one woman at, they called it the division of developmental disabilities in New Jersey. And on her outgoing messages, always have a blessed day. But I started talking back to the message because when I'd get her on the phone and I would say, I know there's afterschool slot at the Jerry Davis center, which was the arc, ARC.

In New Jersey in my neighborhood, I know there's a slot and know George is next on the waiting list and she would say, how'd you find that out? Like what? Are you the, is this the CIA? And then she tried to scared me off with 50 pages of paperwork. She said, ⁓ but it's 50 pages and you know what? I had that paperwork back on her desk the next morning. Because you have to get mad. You have to get angry. That's the only way things get done. You have to demand respect.

Chelsea Myers (22:50)
Mm-hmm.

Of course you did.

Nancy A Ferraro (23:18)
You have to get angry and you have to become Tiger Mom. There's just no other option, right?

Chelsea Myers (23:24)
Yeah. And it's, it shouldn't be that way. It I mean, it goes, it goes without saying, but it shouldn't be that way. ⁓ And I completely, completely agree with you. And it resonates with me, right? Like the government agencies who are supposed to be supporting our children and supporting us in supporting our children fall short. And that's putting it lightly. It is

Nancy A Ferraro (23:29)
Which is?

Chelsea Myers (23:53)
the other moms, is the other parents with lived experiences. is the, It's like the PCA workers. It's the people who are living with this every day that are gonna, that you're gonna connect with, that you're gonna learn the most from and that you're gonna rally with. And yeah, you all have to learn to become tiger moms.

And this, just as a side, this isn't about me at all, but even as special educators, so many of us feel like we have to also, we have to be tiger teachers to fight for our kids too. ⁓ We call them our kids. They're not, every child that I've ever worked, you know what I mean? Every child that I've ever worked with will always in my heart be one of my kids, but.

Nancy A Ferraro (24:36)
I get it.

Chelsea Myers (24:45)
This was one of the things that really, really ⁓ drew me to you and wanting to have this conversation is because I know that fight. I know it from a professional standpoint and I know it as a parent. ⁓ And I'm so glad that you brought up that your mentor, the person you connected with, you met in a grocery store and it was another mom who went through it.

So you have that heartbreaking moment of George just taking the hand of someone else and calling him dad. You have the frustrating moments of calling for the support and doing the work and putting the work in and being met with.

roadblock after roadblock. And this doesn't even touch on what you're dealing with at home and what your other son is witnessing. Like those behaviors that you described, would you mind talking about it a little bit? Because I don't think it's talked about enough.

Nancy A Ferraro (25:45)
Right, so fetal alcohol syndrome produces extreme violence in children. And with George, George's birth mother was not only very young, I think she was about 14 years old when she had him, but there's no prenatal care in Romania, at least there was not at the time. And she apparently drank that home brewed plum brandy that they make that I tasted when I went to get him. It's like grain alcohol.

Chelsea Myers (26:09)
Mm-hmm.

Nancy A Ferraro (26:15)
So George had all these insults to him in utero. So the fetal alcohol syndrome, the low IQ, the lack of oxygen to his brain when he was born. And then couple that with the way they fed him in the orphanage through those bottles with the big holes in them, the glug would come. And so he had to develop some kind of a mechanism to keep from choking to death. So he has no phonemic awareness. He has no idea where his tongue is in his mouth.

which makes him very hard to understand unless you know him.

So for my older son, I actually let him do things and get away with things that I normally would not. I was trying to just give him some normalcy. would let him spend time with his cousins and go places and do things. But at home, it was terror. We had a 50-foot driveway and it was gravel. And I would hear the bus coming down that driveway and it would get a knot in my stomach.

And when I tell you I can open a bottle of wine without a corkscrew in a split second, I could do it. I could then. There's a way. I'll teach you if you want to know. But.

I could not. And George would come in the door and I never knew what it was gonna be, right? I never knew. He could come in and be quiet and sit down for snack or he could come in, cute, perfect, and then snap and start attacking me. So in comes Dr. Federici and teaches me this way to control George sort of without hurting either one of us.

Chelsea Myers (27:30)
another podcast for another day.

Nancy A Ferraro (27:59)
But George is very squirrely. He found a way to pinch, like, you know that part between your thighs where it's really hurts? I always knew it, but he would always manage that. So the behaviors would start cycling, right? He would just, a curtain would come down, George would disappear, and this animal would just start attacking me. So I would have to get him on the floor in a protective hold, flat affect.

Chelsea Myers (28:07)
Yes

Nancy A Ferraro (28:27)
calm voice, now you're being attacked, right? That in itself is an exercise in self-control. And I'm soothing, I'm talking to him in a very soothing manner, blah, blah, blah. And there's something that Dr. Federici taught me called extinction behavior. So when they rage, it goes up, up, up, up, and then they give one last shot to see if they're gonna get somewhere. And that's when it comes down. So if you can make it past that.

Chelsea Myers (28:31)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Nancy A Ferraro (28:56)
then he would calm down. And the craziest thing is when he would do that, he would look at me and go, snack? I'm like, Jesus.

Chelsea Myers (29:05)
It's like, wow, that was exhausting. I fuel up?

Nancy A Ferraro (29:07)
I'm not over this. And then my mother

moved in with us. So on top of everything, she would come out of her room with her walker, what's going on? So you're in the middle of this rage, right? And I'm trying to give her the eye, like go back in your room, And then she'd bend down and go, what's wrong, George? And he would go, mall. And my mother said, I want to go to the mall too. Like, ⁓ so now you're here and now you have to go here.

Chelsea Myers (29:22)
You

Nancy A Ferraro (29:36)
before you, Ethan, can think about that rage coming down. So that was fun.

Chelsea Myers (29:42)
Yeah, that sounds like a blast. It's a situation I have been in in my professional life many times. ⁓ Yeah, that's a perfect, that was fun. ⁓ But exactly what you're describing is, is again, something that I've witnessed, something I've experienced and something that I don't think people realize is a daily.

is a daily occurrence, not just a daily occurrence, it's like, like I was saying earlier, you're just waiting for bedtime, like please sleep tonight, please sleep tonight so that I can sleep. Yeah.

Nancy A Ferraro (30:17)
Exactly. You

just, it's an exercise in survival. And when you talk about this kind of a thing, you're not supposed to talk about post-traumatic stress disorder because you're a mother, it's your child. What? It's really messes with your head. And so for a long time, after we placed George in the group home and there was peace in my house, I couldn't deal with it. Because you're so used to being in crisis mode. I had a friend come visit.

Chelsea Myers (30:31)
No.

Yeah.

Nancy A Ferraro (30:47)
and stay in my house and she said Nancy.

Your house is loud. Your house is loud. Well, it was you can't help it. She said, but if you don't have a crisis you manufacture one and that stung but I realized that she was right because I Didn't know how to deal with life without a crisis. I would see someone relaxing reading the newspaper. I'm like, who do you think you are? You know, what gives you the right to sit here and read the paper?

Chelsea Myers (30:54)
Yeah.

Mmm.

Nancy A Ferraro (31:15)
because you're always supposed to be doing something. You're always supposed to be putting out a fire. You're always supposed to be add that to the fact that my ex-husband is also an attorney calling me and saying, I really use your help in the office. I can't remember my name. So, okay.

Chelsea Myers (31:15)
Yeah.

Yeah, what exactly

do you expect from me right now? ⁓

Nancy A Ferraro (31:35)
Exactly, and he didn't understand because, you know, if I, if I could have done it, I would have, you know, I can't say that I wouldn't have done the same thing, but leave before the kids got up and come home when they were sleeping. I mean, there were times when he was home and we'd have to physically carry George to the bus, arms, you know, you get one end, I get the other end. Because he's not staying home. I'm sorry. You know, he's raging, but he's not staying home today. So.

You know, he wouldn't get dressed, he wouldn't put on his shoes, wouldn't cooperate. But when I look back on it, I really wonder how we survived. But I actually do wonder why I'm sitting here vertical, basically. And the only thing I can come up with is it's not just me. And I don't mean to make this a spiritual moment, but.

Chelsea Myers (32:15)
Yeah.

for it.

Nancy A Ferraro (32:32)
I

realized that it wasn't just me. And I know that I questioned everything. And I wondered why God was punishing me. What I did that was so horrible that I was being punished this way. And was sure when I was done with George, and I don't mean done with George, we placed him in a group home. And I told my friends not to stand too close because I was actually expecting a lightning bolt from the sky to take me. Because I thought

I've got nothing left to give. Don't ask anything more of me, God, because I got nothing. And eventually that feeling passed, but it was years before I felt as though I was even ready to make a contribution to anything.

Chelsea Myers (33:20)
Yeah, I mean understandable. Just like you said before, like post-traumatic stress. ⁓ Of course you can experience PTSD from any trauma. It's post-traumatic stress. It comes from trauma, and you are experiencing daily trauma. exactly.

Nancy A Ferraro (33:35)
So it's not a magical transformation. So this is where I was,

this is what I dealt with, this is where I am. But it wasn't magic by any means. It was long and it was painful and it was therapy and it was crying. There is something you have to give yourself time. And I almost say that when you have a special needs child, it's like you're grieving every day.

I don't mean to say this in the wrong way, but it would be easier if somebody died because you have a chance to move on. And at the end of every day, you have a new death.

Chelsea Myers (34:06)
Mm.

Nancy A Ferraro (34:07)
so you never get a chance to grieve it and to heal. The wound never heals.

Chelsea Myers (34:15)
think that that's a beautiful way of explaining it, honestly. And I'm curious too, you mentioned like it took therapy, it took crying. What was the turning point for you when you made the decision like, okay, we need just we need outside assistance, like when you started exploring the group home option? ⁓ What did that take?

Nancy A Ferraro (34:39)
The first neurologist I took George to, who I thought knew something, because I knew everything better than, yeah. I was interviewing, I was doctor shopping. But this doctor sat me down, George was four, and she said, this child belongs in the institution. I went, next. This is, he's a four year old. So he was violent in our home. I had a behaviorist.

Chelsea Myers (34:56)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Nancy A Ferraro (35:06)
write me a letter because she told me to turn his doorknob around so we could lock him in his room at night so he couldn't attack us. And to my ex-husband's credit, he said, I'm not having Difus, the family services, come in and arrest us. And she put it in writing that we were allowed to do that for our own safety. So we went like that for quite some time because George was little, even though was strong as a truck driver when he was raging.

Chelsea Myers (35:24)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Nancy A Ferraro (35:35)
I felt scared to institutionalize him because I had an idea that it was going to be, you know, a building with kids strapped to the beds. It was frightening to me and he was little and I was afraid that he was going to get hurt. When I finally opened my mind to the idea and the fact that I don't have 24 hour staff and we couldn't control him and he was dangerous, I started looking at group homes. And once I found out

that they're not those, you know, those institutions with bars on windows. They're housed in a neighborhood. They have 24 hour staff. I don't have 24 hour staff. George has staff. They check on him every 15 minutes and they live like a family and they're trained and they have shifts and they go home and refresh themselves and then come back. It was almost like discovering Nirvana. And I believe that is the best thing I ever did for George because

Chelsea Myers (36:10)
Right, like one flew over the cuckoo's necks. Yeah.

Yeah.

Nancy A Ferraro (36:34)
He has a fixed schedule. He has people who care for him. He is thriving. And when he goes out in the community, he's basically the mayor. He wants to know how you, you know, in his limited, you know, in his limited ⁓ dinner, he wants to know, you eat dinner? What did you have? And so he could write a book and he's the mayor until he's not, of course. And he is still raging, but I am no longer the victim.

Chelsea Myers (36:45)
Ha

Nancy A Ferraro (37:04)
of that violence. And for that, I am extraordinarily grateful.

Chelsea Myers (37:09)
And I'm curious too, what feelings went along with that? I'm definitely getting a feeling of relief almost, but I'm surmising that there was a period of grief as well. Because like you said, right, you were his mother from the moment you laid eyes on him. So having to make that decision, like...

Nancy A Ferraro (37:27)
⁓ absolutely.

Chelsea Myers (37:37)
what was going through your mind at that time.

Nancy A Ferraro (37:41)
And that's why I called my book When the Bough Breaks. Right? You know the nursery rhyme. It's when the bough breaks, you have to reinvent your relationship with your child. You have to give up your expectations of what you thought their life was going to be. You have to give up your expectations of what you thought they were going to be in your family. And that is a period of grieving because you just...

You have to wrap your head around it. It's not easy. But in the long run, because George is doing so well and he's so happy there and he has a program that he goes to and he feels like he's making a contribution to society. I couldn't give him that in my home. And the fact that I did this for him made me feel like I did the right thing. He was meant to be with me.

He is where he's supposed to be. We talk every day. I get a picture of his coffee. He shows me his room. It's full of eagles and that's what he wants. The Philadelphia Eagles, whether you love them or hate them. George is the biggest fan. So, you know, we have a relationship, but it's not what I wanted in the beginning. And it's not what I expected.

Chelsea Myers (38:40)
You

knowing that, like you said, you were meant to be his mother.

and you mothered him in the only way that you could. You weathered the storm and you fought the battles and then you found him a place where he could be George, right?

Nancy A Ferraro (39:16)
And let's not forget the lack of support in my extended family because...

Chelsea Myers (39:22)
I was

gonna ask about it. I was gonna ask about your support system.

Nancy A Ferraro (39:26)
When we first did it, my ex-mother-in-law came and said, what have you done to my grandson?

Chelsea Myers (39:32)
Ugh.

Nancy A Ferraro (39:34)
Well, first of all, at the beginning, she would say, are you sure? Are you sure he's special needs? Because I think he's smarter than you're giving him credit for. And, he's not violent. You just don't know how to talk to him. Really? So one day we left George with her and the three of us went out to dinner. came back and George is sitting, you know, he's straddling my mother-in-law and he's beating her with his fist.

And I thought, I you don't know how to talk to him either, do you? So that kind of battle that I was fighting with them, every time I got respite, they questioned me, but they weren't going to take him. So they didn't want to acknowledge it, but they didn't want to deal with it either. And I believe now after so many years, I mean, we don't have the relationship anymore, but she had to come around to see that this was the best thing for George.

But the whole time I was going through it, I was the enemy. And I wasn't helping my husband in the office. This is fun. It wasn't fun. it was so disheartening not to have that kind of support because they could have lifted me up.

Chelsea Myers (40:38)
When could you do that exactly?

Yeah. Did you have any, like I know you said your mom moved in for a little while. What was the support like from your side of the family?

Nancy A Ferraro (40:58)
It was almost like they were competing for my attention.

Chelsea Myers (41:01)
⁓ okay.

Nancy A Ferraro (41:02)
It was very

funny because I got George into the group home and my mother said, finally, now I can get some attention. I thought, I'm running to the mall twice a week with my mother because she was returns are us. She'd buy, well, it took hours. You you had the walker and I'm bringing the entire handbag department to her one person at a time. She finally settles on something. And then the next day she would come out of her room and say, have to return this. It's too heavy or it's too, and

Chelsea Myers (41:21)
Yup.

my god.

Nancy A Ferraro (41:33)
So it was almost like she reverted to childhood and I was the mother. I asked my mother to come live with us, basically to help me. And I ended up with another child. So she meant well, she just didn't know how to deal with George. And then she felt like I was taking attention away from her, which was funny because I...

I didn't have anything to give. I was giving everything. Between her and George and my older son trying to, I just didn't know what to do anymore. So there was no Nancy.

Chelsea Myers (42:04)
Yeah.

Yeah, you were kind of an island and you were just in constant survival mode every minute of every day. ⁓ I mean, let's kind of, we've talked about the supports that you didn't get, the fights that you had to fight, you've talked about the lack of support from family, and you touched briefly on your older son. ⁓

Do you guys talk about the experience at all of like bringing George home and having a little brother and what that, because you said he's a very kind and empathetic and understanding person and you don't know if that, if he would be the person that he is today if George wasn't a part of your family. Do you have discussions around that at all?

Nancy A Ferraro (43:00)
Not really. And I don't think he realizes that but for George, he would have been a selfish only child. Right? I don't think he realizes that. And it's still very tender because last time I went to California to see him and I started to say something. I said, you know, George, blah, blah. He said, I don't have to hear this now. I know that when you and dad are gone, I'll be responsible for George and I'm okay with it. But I don't hear it.

Chelsea Myers (43:09)
Okay.

Hmm.

Nancy A Ferraro (43:30)
So I know he is still traumatically scarred. So I tread very lightly and I don't bring George up. I can't because he still has wounds that he hasn't healed.

Chelsea Myers (43:43)
Yeah, yeah. And again, like we're not going to speak to his experience, just ignore. Exactly, right? Yeah.

Nancy A Ferraro (43:51)
And it's really not my story to tell. It's

his story to tell, if he so chooses. And I think something coming from him, from his perspective, would be very powerful for siblings of special needs children to read because I know that he suffered. And I know he has said before, I don't blame you, mom. We didn't know that George had special needs when we adopted him. All the reports said he was normal.

I know you didn't mean it, Mom. It's not your fault. I don't blame you. But there is an undercurrent of resentment.

Chelsea Myers (44:24)
Yeah, and I agree with you. I'm sure that they exist, but I think siblings' perspectives would be so helpful to families, to parents, to other siblings. ⁓ And it goes back to like, I mean...

our whole mission here talking about these parenting experiences, the more that we talk about it, the more understanding there is, and the less stigmatized it is so that the reaction may not be like, okay, I don't need to hear about this right now. Right? Like it would be just a typical conversation. Like, okay, yeah, how's George doing? What are we gonna, that kind of thing. So yeah, I mean, his story to tell and maybe someday he will, but

I just, I want to, I want to give power to you in this moment that you, like you said, you always envisioned yourself being a mom, being a caretaker. Even when you had your first son, you were like, I could have a special needs child. Like, and like you said, like the absurdity of that even popping into your head in that moment and recognizing that, right? But you did.

Nancy A Ferraro (45:31)
Right, it was really weird.

Chelsea Myers (45:37)
the best that you could with what you had to raise your two sons. And they are who they are today. And it sounds like George is happy. that right and he's in a place where he feels like he said he's the mayor. ⁓ I love that analogy. ⁓ But just kind of giving power back to you, which I don't think you need to hear it from me. I think part of you knows it.

but you're a badass. You weathered the storm and you made really, really hard decisions because you're a mom and you were their mom. Yeah, mean, moms are badasses. we have to end. And just like you said at the beginning of this episode, the...

Nancy A Ferraro (46:20)
We're all badasses. Because we have to be. Yeah?

Chelsea Myers (46:32)
the blame is placed on mom for everything. The responsibility is placed on mom for everything. And it's not fair, but it's also kind of like a self perpetuating cycle. We're always gonna be mama bear. We're always gonna be mama tiger. Because that's just, I don't know, it's just how we are. We're gonna fight for our kids.

Nancy A Ferraro (46:55)
But

would we have it in either way?

Chelsea Myers (46:59)
would we have it any other way? You know, I like to say, I say, I would not wish my experiences on anyone and I wouldn't repeat them, but I would never trade my children for anything. I don't know if that resonates, like, right? Like I would not do that again. I would not do that again. But I also would not trade my children for anything in the world.

Nancy A Ferraro (47:14)
⁓ absolutely.

no, I

wouldn't do it again. I certainly would not do it again. Hear me, Lord. I would not do it again. But having said that, am I grateful for having had that experience? Of course, because it has catapulted me into this position of having lived this, having learned about these things. And God gave me words to tell the story. The craziest thing is I always loved writing and I never felt I had anything

Chelsea Myers (47:29)
No. No. Yeah. Yes. But I

Nancy A Ferraro (47:57)
that anyone would want to read. And when I started writing this book, the words poured out. I couldn't move from the computer because it's something that needs to be talked about. It is something that women especially need to know that you're not alone. And you know, statistics are kind of crazy. I just spoke at a very large special needs conference in Florida over the summer. And so I learned a lot about the population of special needs.

And in the United States, there are about 20 % of us who have some sort of neurodiversity. I know for me, I'm definitely ADD because I'll start this project over here. And then, you know, at the end of the day with the kids, I'd be starting all these little projects and then it'd be time for my husband to come home. And I'd look up and go, my God, we've been robbed. And you have no idea the amount of stuff at five minutes to five that went under the sofa.

Chelsea Myers (48:37)
you

Nancy A Ferraro (48:55)
I just, and for a I'm pulling papers out of it. I didn't know, I forgot about this. I forgot I had this. Things just went under, because daddy's coming. Try to make it look normal. Yeah. No, I definitely, I definitely have ADD, but that's okay. I'm happy with it. There are other people in my world who don't and are very happy to be my organizers and my paralegal and my, you know, my spouse is very organized. And so I'm grateful for that because I lose stuff.

Chelsea Myers (49:06)
Put it in the closet. Yeah.

Nancy A Ferraro (49:23)
can't all be good at everything, right?

Chelsea Myers (49:25)
No,

it'd be nice if we could. But that leads us so beautifully into your book and the work that you're doing for advocacy today, ⁓ advocacy in the neurodiverse community. And ⁓ I'd love to hear a little bit more about that, especially for my listeners who want to learn more about what it is you're doing.

Nancy A Ferraro (49:49)
Okay, great. Well, the book was a bridge. So I started writing it 10 years ago and actually shopped it ⁓ in New York and got some requests for book proposals, but I didn't know what I was doing. I had no idea what a book proposal was. I didn't know. I had 10 pages, but I knew I had to get it out. It had to come out of me. And I called my older son and I said, listen, I've gotten

book proposal from this publisher, he said, I'm not over my childhood with Georgia, can't do it. And I honored that and I put it away. And then several years ago, I got an email. I had been stalking a writer's retreat in Vermont that I wanted to go to. I got, wow. That's amazing. So I got this email that said, we're having a national writing competition. Send me the first 10 pages of whatever you're working on.

Chelsea Myers (50:32)
That's where I live. That's really weird. That's where I live. Yeah.

Nancy A Ferraro (50:45)
Well, I had 10 pages. He sent it. And I became a semi-finalist in this competition. And again, called my older son. And I said, honey, I won't do it if you don't want me to. And he said, no, I'm proud of you, mom. Go for it. I said, okay, honey, don't read the book. And I hung up.

Chelsea Myers (50:47)
Yeah!

Nancy A Ferraro (51:02)
and went on to win this competition, which was insane. And it garnered me a traditional publisher, but it's, it's a bridge. So even unless you're Stephen King, your publisher doesn't help you sell your book, but that's not why I wrote it. I wrote it for awareness. So now I'm working very hard toward a speaking platform. And that's why I've started to speak.

and the privilege to speak at something like the Family Cafe, where there were 13,000 participants, was amazing. And what I get is so much more than what my audience receives. Because when I get in front of these moms and I talk about what I went through, and we end up crying together, we end up laughing together. But what that's doing is forming community and women.

hugging me and saying, I'm not alone.

So I bring it, I bring the resources and I bring, but it's more than that. They're just not looking for, cause anybody can Google respite. It's internal. The work is internal. The work is internal to realize that you're entitled to help, that your child's best, your child's best advocate to come from it, from a perspective of we are on George's team. How can we make this better for George? To be informed, to know the law.

Chelsea Myers (52:09)
Right.

Nancy A Ferraro (52:30)
You don't have to go to law school, but you have to know what free appropriate public education looks like. You have to know what, ⁓ you know, modified plan looks like. You have to know what an IEP is and you'll have to be brave enough to speak it because frankly, advocacy, it's just not love. can't love is not enough, but I always say advocacy is love in motion.

And that is sacred.

Chelsea Myers (53:01)
That is beautiful. That is such a beautiful way to put that. Honestly, because a lot of us can say that, like, I'm a mental health advocate or I'm special education advocate or advocate advocacy is love in motion. wow, that breathes life into that. That is beautiful. I'm going to adopt that now, just so you know.

Nancy A Ferraro (53:28)
You may.

Chelsea Myers (53:29)
Thank you, thank you, thank you. No, I think that that is beautiful. And I so admire that you didn't have to, you didn't owe it to anyone, but to take your experiences and turn them into something that's going to help the next family is something that's beyond measure. It's like you said, it's solidarity, it's I'm not alone.

and it's hope. It's holding hope for that person who doesn't see it. ⁓

Nancy A Ferraro (54:05)
So as

a warning, the book is raw. It's honest. I am not an angel. I'm not a hero. I'm not a victim. I'm just a mom who was plunged into a nightmare and lived to talk about it. So nobody wants to a fluff piece. And I've read self-published books and say, ⁓ I'm in a happy place and I can show you how to be happy. We don't care about that. We want to know when were you unhappy?

Chelsea Myers (54:09)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nancy A Ferraro (54:34)
what happened to change it, because you're not going to believe anybody, right? Give no credibility to authors who say, this is, but I'm not going to tell you anything about myself. I'm just going to tell you how to fix you. I don't follow those people. I want to talk to authors and read authors who say, this is where I came from. It was really dark. This is how I fought my way through. And this is how I can help you. So I realized that I couldn't sugarcoat.

Chelsea Myers (54:37)
Yeah.

Nancy A Ferraro (55:05)
any of it. The book actually reads like a novel. I want it to be an easy read, and it is. It's fast read, but it gets the point across. You know, not going to find there is a little background because there had to be around when Ceausescu fell in Romania. So there's a little bit of that, but it's necessary if you'd understand where George came from and what we were dealing with.

Chelsea Myers (55:28)
Yeah.

And I respect that. And that is something that I subscribe to as well. I believe that ⁓ being vulnerable and talking about the hard is the only way to get to, right? When I say like holding the hope, it doesn't mean we're all holding on to sunshine and rainbows. It means I've been there. It's dark. It's really dark, like below the basement, down in the dirt dark.

Nancy A Ferraro (55:57)
yeah.

Chelsea Myers (55:57)
but

but it's a chapter and it's not your whole story. It may be a long ass chapter, but it's not the whole it's not your whole book. So yeah, I could literally sit here and talk to you for hours if I did not have to. my gosh, if I didn't have to go pick up my toddler from preschool, but because I'm still in those trenches.

Nancy A Ferraro (56:10)
That's right.

I know me too.

Wow, I give you a lot of credit, that's a lot.

Chelsea Myers (56:27)
⁓ yeah.

I've got a 10 year old and a three year old man and they are both wild in their own ways. So, and we're a neuro spicy. We call ourselves neuro sparkly. ⁓ that's the term we like to use neuro sparkly. so we're, it's just all chaos and sparkles in our house. Wouldn't, and I don't mean that as rainbows and sunshine. mean,

Nancy A Ferraro (56:52)
No, I hear you. It's rainbows and sparkles,

I know.

Chelsea Myers (56:56)
You know what I mean? Like when the glitter, the glitter is everywhere and you can't get it all up. Yeah, that's we're neuro sparkly, but regardless anyway, not about me for anyone listening. And I know that there are people listening that this resonates with and they want to learn more about you and learn more about what you're doing. Where is the best place that they can find you?

Nancy A Ferraro (57:21)
Okay, I have a couple of websites And my contact information as well. I can give you a quick phone number, which is 772-222-7979. Should be pretty easy to remember. And that is my law office, but you can reach me very easily there.

Chelsea Myers (57:28)
Sure.

Okay.

Nancy A Ferraro (57:43)
and the website is ⁓ www.nancy-rights.com or www.ferrarolawpalmbeach.com.

Chelsea Myers (57:57)
be it'll be in the show notes. We always like to remind our listeners to check the show notes because you're going to find really good information in there. And you can connect with our guests that way. But ⁓

Nancy, you are a powerhouse. I have loved chatting with you this morning. I can feel the just the love that you have for both of your children and the empowerment despite or maybe even because of everything that your family has gone through. And I just I appreciate you sharing so honestly with me today.

Nancy A Ferraro (58:34)
Thank you. You're a powerhouse too. You have to go get kids now.

Chelsea Myers (58:38)
I do I have to go get kids and try to eat some lunch sometime. We'll see who knows. But um, but yeah, thank you so much. And and keep keep doing what you're doing. Your book is on my list. Now. I've got a growing list, but it is on my list. All right. Oh, I almost forgot. I'm ending my episodes a little different these days. I'm challenging you.

Nancy A Ferraro (58:52)
Great.

Thanks for having me.

Chelsea Myers (59:03)
so I'm harkening back to the days before cell phones, before we were all able to be found and reached and easily accessible. And so you called into Quiet Connection today. You called the Quiet Connection hotline and you don't know who my next guest is. You don't know anything about their story. You don't know anything that they're going through, but you've got to leave them a message because you called in and they weren't here. And you can interpret that.

in whatever way you would like, because that's how I get my best responses. But so you call Quiet Connection and you're going to leave a message for my next guest. What message would you like to leave for them?

Nancy A Ferraro (59:45)
Okay, I've got it. I am going to tell her, no matter what you're feeling, no matter what your challenge, someone needs to hear your message. Someone needs to hear what you're going through. Someone needs that connection. Be brave. Tell your story.

Chelsea Myers (59:47)
Okay.

I love it. And you know, I've never got the same response twice. So, absolutely.

Nancy A Ferraro (1:00:07)
Really? I can't wait hear what my message was.

Chelsea Myers (1:00:10)
I know and I want to, that's the cool thing is I really want guests to check back in with me and be like, yeah, that totally missed the mark or be like, wow, that's what I needed to hear. You know, I just, I think it's this cool little social experiment. So we're going to see how it goes,