Missed Miscarriage, Hormones, and Healing: Cat's Story

When Cat Carnell walked into her ten-week ultrasound expecting to hear a heartbeat, she was met with two words that shattered her world: "I'm sorry." What followed was a confusing, painful, and deeply isolating journey through a missed miscarriage—a type of pregnancy loss where the body continues to hold onto the pregnancy without showing typical signs of loss.

In this episode of Quiet Connection, Cat opens up about the harsh physical reality of taking medication for pregnancy loss, the overwhelming hormonal drop that left her feeling completely "soulless," and the dark humor and unique coping mechanisms (including a giant Jeep duck!) that helped her process her grief. 

Cat and Chelsea dive deep into the taboo conversations surrounding reproductive health, the gaps in medical communication, and why we need to talk about the physical and emotional realities of loss so no birthing individual feels crazy or alone.

Key Takeaways

• What a Missed Miscarriage Actually Is: Understanding why the body holds onto a pregnancy after it has ended and why medical providers need to explain what is happening rather than just apologizing.
• The Reality of Medical Management: The gap between how healthcare providers portray loss management pills (as "just bad period cramps") and the actual, intense physiological experience.
• The Perinatal Mental Health Crash: How dramatic hormonal shifts after a loss can trigger severe perinatal mental health struggles, leaving birthing individuals feeling detached or soulless.
• Coping Through Connection & Humor: Why unconventional outlets—from life coaching and bodywork to driving a Jeep with a massive duck—are valid, powerful steps in reclaiming yourself after loss.

This episode discusses topics that may be triggering for some individuals. Please check the show notes for more information and be mindful of your own mental health and comfort levels.

Visit our Patreon to help support our mission to normalize the conversation and end the stigma surrounding PMADs!

Transcript

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Chelsea Myers (01:49)
Today I am here with Cat Cat how are you?

Cat Carnell (01:54)
I'm doing fantastic. Thank you so much for this opportunity. I'm really excited.

Chelsea Myers (01:59)
my gosh.

Thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for I say this a lot lately, but thank you for rolling with the punches with life. Just life thing. my gosh. it does. And it doesn't stop ever.

Cat Carnell (02:08)
Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. It comes. It just comes. No, it does not.

Chelsea Myers (02:17)
no, I am really excited to have you here. I'm excited to chat with you. and what I like to do is I like

to give my guests the opportunity to introduce themselves. Because it's really boring when I go down the list and just read what I've learned about you. So

Cat Carnell (02:32)
Understandable.

Chelsea Myers (02:33)
I'd love to know who is Cat today and how did we get here?

Cat Carnell (02:38)
Okay, so I was born and raised in Japan. I moved to the United States. My dad's American, by the way. He was Texan. He's no longer with us. But at 26 years old, I had to move to the United States. And mind you, it took me a long time to get comfortable to tell people this, but I was living in Japan the last, I don't know how many years. I want to say since I was 18.

illegally and I had no

Chelsea Myers (03:06)
Hmm?

Cat Carnell (03:06)
idea. I had no idea. I knew about it the last two years I lived there. And it was this whole family drama that was going on at the time. So my dad just kind of dropped completely me and my brother's visa situation. And so we were illegally there.

Anyway, so with that said we were forced to leave Japan even though that was our home Which in all honesty, I'm really happy about today So from there I joined the military because you know my even though my name is completely American everybody looked at my resume I said, this very Japanese, you know, because everything I did was like it was all in English But everything was Japanese, know Japanese restaurants Japanese this Japanese that

So they're like, yeah, like I think I kind of got segregated. they don't, yeah, anyway, so an entire year I could not find a job but waitressing and I got tired of that. So I honestly joined the military, the air force out of desperation. From there, was in the military for six years and I moved to New Mexico after. And in New Mexico, my husband's biological dad and stepmother lived here.

And they were the most inspirational people I have ever met and had unknowingly put me in a position where I gained more confidence, so to speak, and opened a business. So I started, I got my license as a massage therapist and I had a successful business practice, my own practice for nine years. And

At the end of the nine years, my entire life just kind of exploded into pieces and I had to, and that started out with a financial crisis, which dumped me into getting pregnant for the first time. And mind you, I've been married to my husband for 12 years, no, 11 years at the time when we got pregnant in 2024.

And I had been off the pill the entire time we were married. And this was like the first time I got pregnant. So it was practically a miracle because we didn't think it was going to happen.

Chelsea Myers (05:31)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (05:33)
Just to put it out there though, we didn't mind getting pregnant or not. It was more we'll let life happen, you know, because we didn't want that kind of a stress to be on us. So when we were pregnant, we were like, well, what do you know? Let's go with it. You know, we were in love with the idea of having a kid.

And one month later, excuse me, one month later,

Chelsea Myers (05:52)
It's okay.

Cat Carnell (05:54)
the allergies is getting to me.

I found out that I miscarried one month later

Chelsea Myers (05:59)
Mm.

Cat Carnell (06:00)
and that was the biggest. Every time I talk about it, get but it was the hardest thing. I've always heard about miscarriages, but what does that feel like? And I always thought I knew what it meant, but whatever the case is, that kind of shattered my

entire life, but when I was able to get it back together, I found myself in the best place. there was a lot going on there, but that kind of sums up like my entire life right there. That's kind of me. I was a massage therapist and did all this stuff. And now I'm on the path because of all this on the path of becoming a life coach.

Chelsea Myers (06:50)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (06:50)
and an author.

I've already written three books about my miscarriage. Did that kind of give you a good idea of what, who I

Chelsea Myers (06:55)
Yeah, yeah, you have. And yeah, you have. And that was, I mean, I was just gonna say like, that was the most nutshell version of

some incredibly, like challenging and big things. Yeah, wow. Yeah, I mean, we're gonna dive into it. We're gonna dive into it. I mean, so

Cat Carnell (07:13)
Yes, yes, there was a lot happening. Absolutely. Any questions you have for me? Go ahead.

Chelsea Myers (07:23)
like you said, you

you, it was a very interesting transition into adulthood, going from, yeah, going from living

Cat Carnell (07:29)
Yes. It was.

Chelsea Myers (07:34)
in Japan, literally your entire life, to coming to the US and having to like start over again and joining the military, which is a huge transition in and of itself.

Cat Carnell (07:45)
It was best decision ever though.

Chelsea Myers (07:48)
And then how did you meet your husband? Was it in the military?

Cat Carnell (07:53)
Yes, he's my second husband. My first husband,

Chelsea Myers (07:57)
Okay.

Cat Carnell (07:58)
we were married for two years and nine months. And I was like, if this is marriage, he was very jealous and controlling. And I was like, if this is marriage, don't fucking want it. So was like, you know what?

Chelsea Myers (08:10)
No.

Cat Carnell (08:11)
Fuck the world, fuck everybody else. I'm going to put me on the pedestal. So I divorced him. And for one month, I just had the most fun in my life. Whatever it was I wanted to do, I went and fucking did it.

And then here comes my husband, like through a mutual acquaintance that neither of us liked.

Chelsea Myers (08:32)
Of course!

Cat Carnell (08:34)
What was happening was she was like, I know this guy you need to meet him. His name is Josh. I'm like Yeah, I don't need to meet anybody from you Like I literally don't and she was like, no you got to meet him and for three days straight She kept bothering me about this guy. I was like if I see this guy will just stop pestering me Like will you go away? She was like, yes, I'm like, okay

So I called my future husband with I did not know and we met at first he was like, I to come to my house, we'll have a beer. I was like, uh-uh, no, no, we're not going to your house. We're going to the bar that I'm going to be with my friends at and all this stuff. But we clicked so well right off the bat. And I think the best thing that we both did because we were both in a place where we're like, we're not going to go through that shit again.

this is also his second marriage. I told him, was like, if you want a relationship, there's the door. And he was like,

Chelsea Myers (09:31)
Mmm.

Cat Carnell (09:32)
like right off the bat, that's what I said. And he was like, well, if you like to play bitchy mind games, there's the door. I was like, I don't think I'm fucking like you yet. why would I, you know what I mean? Why would I play mind games? it was.

Chelsea Myers (09:47)
This is a really interesting first date. Like what the hell's happening right

now?

Cat Carnell (09:52)
We were both like, okay, so we're just gonna be here and just chill, you know? And but from that point on, we had been together, basically friends with benefits, right? And then one day, he was like, so what are we doing? Because we're hanging out every day, every day. And I was like, are you asking if we're dating or not? He was like, I guess that's my question. I was like, as far as I'm concerned, I'm still single.

Chelsea Myers (10:18)
man.

Cat Carnell (10:19)
I know and then one of my friends one day was you need to pull your head out of your ass and see what's actually happening here because you guys are no longer single. And I was like, I

don't understand what you're saying. I don't understand. Like, I'm still single, whatever. You know, I was like so gung ho about staying single. But because of that conversation with this friend of mine, I was like, am I ready for a relationship? I had this

whole conversation in my head, we're at a bar and it was karaoke night. I'm a huge karaoke girl back then.

Chelsea Myers (10:51)
yeah.

Cat Carnell (10:52)
I did contests and everything. I won money doing it. I know it

Chelsea Myers (10:56)
Girl, I love it.

Cat Carnell (10:58)
was so much fun. And anyway, so while somebody else was singing, you know, it's hard to talk when somebody else is singing because they're all loud And I'm sitting there having this whole conversation with my husband, without my husband.

not I was ready for a relationship or not and ultimately the last question I asked myself was well if I'm single that means he's single if some other girls come comes walking around and they they like each other that means it's okay for him to go right will I be okay with that and I was like you know what I am NOT okay with that

like I'm having way too much fun with this guy and if he goes that means all the fun goes you know cuz he was the first guy like I wanted to do all kinds of stuff like

like camping, because back in Japan, I lived on concrete world. I had friends who did outsidey stuff, but it's not like camping or anything. You know, we spent a lot of time outside, but it was like a city life outside. So

Chelsea Myers (11:56)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (11:57)
moving to Montana, we were in Montana, that's where we were stationed at. I was like, I want to go camping, want to go fishing, I want to do all this stuff. My ex-husband wanted to just cuddle on the couch. So when

Chelsea Myers (12:07)
you

Cat Carnell (12:07)
I met this guy,

He took me everywhere. We went camping. We had dogs. We had a boat. We did all these things. And I had so much fun. Waking up at six o'clock in the morning was not what I found fun in the past. But because he was doing all this stuff with I was like, I want more. So when I had this question in my head, I was like, no, I want this to be a thing. So I looked at my husband and I was like, I think I'm ready. And he was like, ready to go home or another beer?

I was like, my god, I had the whole conversation without you in my head. Exactly, and I told

Chelsea Myers (12:43)
I forgot you were here. Oops.

Cat Carnell (12:47)
him, was like, no, I'm ready to date. And he was like, okay. And that's how that started happening. That's how we met.

Chelsea Myers (12:57)
Also, like it makes perfect

sense with what you're saying in terms of like that you weren't on birth control or anything like that. Like, it just seems like you guys were just experiencing life and letting life come at you. Right? Yeah. And embracing it. And yeah, so that makes perfect sense. Very, very on brand as far as I'm concerned. Yeah. I love that so

Cat Carnell (13:06)
We were. Exactly. Exactly. We're just letting. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely very us. Yes.

Chelsea Myers (13:21)
much. That's not that's like that's one of those stories like, you know, you have like the fairy tale.

stories and stuff. This is like the kind of story that I like to heal. He,

Cat Carnell (13:27)
Yes. Realistic, right? Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (13:32)
here, the type of story I like to hear like we were best friends before everything else, right? Like, he is just so much fun. I love that.

Cat Carnell (13:36)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Thank you.

Chelsea Myers (13:43)
so you kind of maybe alluded to it earlier, you were you were open to the idea of having kids. was it something

prior to that in your life that you'd ever, was it something that's like, is on my to-do list? Or was it like, if it happens, it happens?

Cat Carnell (14:01)
You know, when I was 25, because I thought about this before, 24, 25 years old, I was dating a guy that I thought I was going to get married to. And we were together for four years. in the, I want to say year two or three, I had started having feelings that I wanted kids, but I knew it wasn't the right time. But I was telling, I was like, I want to figure something out. it never, that thought never went anywhere.

just in case we had kids, that was my thought. Just in case we had kids, even though I was on birth control. I was a very heavy smoker by the way, back then. like on regular days I would have an entire pack and when I went

Chelsea Myers (14:45)
Mm.

Cat Carnell (14:46)
out I'll have another entire pack that evening. That's how heavy my smoking was.

I did not want to be the reason my kids started smoking. And the reason

Chelsea Myers (14:58)
Mmm.

Cat Carnell (14:59)
I had that thought was because I was separated from my biological mother. my dad kept us. That's a whole different story. It

Chelsea Myers (15:10)
Yeah!

Cat Carnell (15:11)
was technically an international kidnapping by my father. Yeah,

Chelsea Myers (15:15)
my god.

Cat Carnell (15:16)
he just kept us instead of returning us.

who's the rightful, what is that called? The rightful, yeah, exactly.

Chelsea Myers (15:23)
like guardian or yeah.

Cat Carnell (15:27)
custody, she was supposed

Chelsea Myers (15:28)
Yes.

Cat Carnell (15:29)
to have full custody, but my dad kept me and there was nothing my mom could do about it. So anyway, with that said, I have a lot of stories just so you

Chelsea Myers (15:36)
Yeah you do!

Cat Carnell (15:38)
So with that said, like when I was living in a chaotic household of a narcissistic stepmother,

I got the urge of wanting to smoke because I wanted to be closer to my mother. So

Chelsea Myers (15:50)
Mmm.

Cat Carnell (15:52)
I started smoking because of that. I wanted to be closer. And so when I was thinking about the possibility of getting pregnant, I was like, I should probably stop smoking just in case I do get pregnant. So I quit. I did not quit smoking. It was so hard to quit smoking when I was with my ex-husband.

And when I, after marrying my current husband, I was like, okay, the possibility is there again. So it was always the thought of possibility as opposed to let's have kids, you know?

Chelsea Myers (16:22)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (16:23)
And, oh, it's so funny too, because when engaged, I was like, you know, I don't think we had the most important conversation yet. He was like, what's that? I was like, kids, do you want them? He

Chelsea Myers (16:36)
You

Cat Carnell (16:36)
was like...

Whatever, whatever you want to do. If you want kids, can have kids. was like, I'll just let life happen. I guess I don't like I was having so much fun. I didn't want to like get into family making yet. So was like, let's just let life happen. So I got off the pills for that reason. We never tried to have babies, if that makes sense. Like it wasn't that reason for anything, you know, but I did quit smoking just in case.

which I was able to do with my current husband, because I was happy enough that I didn't need that to have something that was mine, because I think

Chelsea Myers (17:15)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (17:15)
that was why I couldn't quit smoking before with my ex. So with that, does that answer your question? Like, it wasn't necessarily

Chelsea Myers (17:21)
Yes!

Cat Carnell (17:22)
ever a conversation. It was more like, well, if we do, we'll just be ready for it just in case. It just never happened. Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (17:30)
Yeah, yeah.

And there you found out later that there was a reason that it was so difficult that it just wasn't happening.

Cat Carnell (17:39)
Yes, that was very recent, very recent. Absolutely.

Chelsea Myers (17:41)
Yeah, talk to me about that and then we'll go back in time.

Cat Carnell (17:46)
So I didn't know this until I, as a matter of fact, it was my first appointment with my acupuncturist. He is like a Chinese guy that's lived in the United States for over 30 years and like had, he was in the medical field, but he was a

but he doesn't like the medical field, how

it works. So he decided to open his own acupuncture practice and he's very successful at it, great guy. Anyway, my point is it's easy to trust him because of his background,

Chelsea Myers (18:20)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (18:21)
right? So with that said, he asked me why I was there and I'm like,

Well, I got referrals from the VA because I was going through a miscarriage and my hormones are just like so out of whack. I need them to settle down.

Chelsea Myers (18:39)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (18:40)
But by that time I had gone to radiology to do an ultrasound for my uterus to see if there was anything wrong there. Because we still couldn't figure out why I had a miscarriage.

Until then, I thought it was because of the Wendy's I ate. You know, we always have to put blame somewhere, right? Like, and I

Chelsea Myers (19:00)
reading that. Yes. Yes.

Cat Carnell (19:03)
knew I was putting blame on there. I just didn't have anything else to like, put the blame on. So I just kept it that way. And so anyway, I scanned the results into Dengus.

Dengus is what I call my chatGPT And Dengus was telling me like little things about this inflammation that's happening in my uterus called adenomyosis.

Chelsea Myers (19:31)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (19:32)
And I was like, what the fuck is adenomyosis? Like I've never heard of that. Like endometriosis, like

Chelsea Myers (19:39)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (19:39)
stuff like that I've heard of. And adenomyosis, I was like, I had no idea what it was.

So basically what it is is the uterus itself, the lining of the uterus wall has kind of grown together with the muscle behind the So then when your uterus is shedding its lining, then the muscle of...

the wall muscle is also kind of shedding. It doesn't know what is what anymore. Like it's part of the uterus and therefore inflammation is happening, right?

Chelsea Myers (20:15)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (20:15)
And so there are patches of these inflammation on the walls and but I didn't know what it meant. Dengus was telling me what the results were saying but it didn't really tell me exactly what it meant. So.

When I was talking to my acupuncturist for the first time, he was asking me again, why I was there. And I told him what I recently found out. I literally got the letter from the VA about the results the day before. So I showed him Dengus and he was like, the affected areas are a little thicker than most. Like a lot of people have this. They don't know about it because it's never been an issue.

Chelsea Myers (21:00)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (21:01)
but

yours is a little thicker. That's why you've never gotten pregnant and somehow you did get pregnant, which was a miracle, but that's why it couldn't stay in your uterus because the inflammation areas were taking up the space and it had no room for a growing baby or embryo.

Chelsea Myers (21:18)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (21:18)
So that's how I lost it. Yeah, yeah. Yes.

Chelsea Myers (21:20)
Yeah, well, and now and now and now we go back in time. because

because that I mean, that is that is the why it wasn't the Wendy's. which when I read that I was like, I totally relate to needing an answer, right? Like I need an answer for

Cat Carnell (21:31)
Yes, exactly. Yes.

Chelsea Myers (21:38)
something. but let's go back. Like you said, when you found out when you found out it wasn't

Cat Carnell (21:42)
Yes.

Chelsea Myers (21:42)
like a shit moment. It was like, okay, all right, this is happening.

Cat Carnell (21:46)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (21:50)
And it was a fairly quick turnaround. Well, talk, walk me through that. Walk me through what that was like for you and your husband when you found out you were pregnant.

Cat Carnell (22:01)
I was so in disbelief because obviously I hadn't been pregnant in so long, know? I was like, why am I getting pregnant now? I'm 42 years old, you know? Like, come on. was so funny. The first day I took the, the next day after feeling like I was pregnant, I had my husband run to the store to get the pregnancy test.

Chelsea Myers (22:26)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (22:26)
I'm like, it might be a little too early, but we'll figure it out. And it came out positive. And I was like, there's no fucking way. I'm like staring at the stick in my bed, because I was waiting for it to turn. And my husband walks into the room. He was like, so yeah, you're pregnant? I'm like, I guess so. We both were really nonchalant about it, because we were both in disbelief. And then I was like, you know what? I'm going to.

call the VA and see if they can do like a test and see what happens. And I was able to get a test immediately the very next day. But it was too early for that one because my urine wasn't showing anything. So it came back negative. And I was like, you know, I don't believe that either. Even though I was in disbelief, I was also like, no, because I'm feeling like it's there. You know, like

Chelsea Myers (23:18)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (23:19)
that female intuition, so to speak.

And so I told my husband, I was like, I need you to go get like every brand of

Chelsea Myers (23:28)
Yes!

Cat Carnell (23:31)
pregnancy tests. So he brought home two more, aside from what I already had. And I took all of them the next day and they

Chelsea Myers (23:40)
Yeah!

Cat Carnell (23:41)
all said pregnant.

Chelsea Myers (23:44)
It's like the lines, the words, the... like you had to have every version.

Cat Carnell (23:44)
So I caught it. Yes, exactly. I was like,

if all brands say yes, there is no fucking way it's a no. You know,

Chelsea Myers (23:55)
Yeah

Cat Carnell (23:55)
like, so I messaged my doctor and she was like, well, it came back negative. And I was like, well, explain this then. And then I told her about all of them. She was like, huh, let's go get a blood test. I was like, okay, let's do that.

Chelsea Myers (24:07)
Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say, was

like, why didn't they just do the blood test? Yes.

Cat Carnell (24:12)
Know that would have been so much faster, right? Yeah,

I they always go the cheaper route first. That's just how the VA works Yeah, so yeah Anyway,

Chelsea Myers (24:19)
I mean, I guess that makes sense with the healthcare system. Yeah.

Cat Carnell (24:23)
so I got the blood test it did come back positive and we're like, wow, it's happening It's fucking happening. Like what are we gonna do with ourselves? And I was like me. I don't know about my husband's I was like Holy shit, like I wasn't necessarily freaking out but I'm like

Something that I didn't think was ever gonna happen is happening. Like what is happening to me, you know?

Chelsea Myers (24:47)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (24:47)
And so, what happened?

When it took me about 24 hours for it to set in, I'm like, and I'm still going to work by the way. So I'm like massaging people and, and I like to, I'm a, I'm a talker. Like if they need to be quiet, I can tell them I'll be quiet and do what I need to do. But some of my clients are such talkers. So then I'll be a talker with them and I'll be telling them exactly what's going on and what my thought process is. And every client is like,

So what are you gonna do? I was like, what do mean, what am I gonna do? Like it's happening. And they were like, yeah, but I mean, it's exciting. What are you gonna do? Are you gonna like plan things? I was like, I have no fucking clue. And I was like, do I have to think about it? Yeah, exactly.

Chelsea Myers (25:33)
never been here before, right?

Cat Carnell (25:36)
I was like, do I dress a room up for the baby? Like, is that too early? Do I need to think about baby names? Is that too early? Like, I didn't know what to do. But I was like, you know what?

I think I'm gonna like find ways to tell my immediate family members only about my baby. And I'm a very creative person. I never like to do things just, I'm pregnant. You know what I mean? I don't want it to be boring. So

Chelsea Myers (26:01)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (26:04)
I got a bottle of wine for my husband's dad and stepmom and.

I have these labels that you could create on your own through a system called Avery. I don't know if you know what that is.

Chelsea Myers (26:20)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (26:21)
So I made this label and it's got a baby carriage on it and on top of that it says, guess what? And in tinier letters it says they're gonna be grandparents.

Chelsea Myers (26:31)
Aww.

Cat Carnell (26:33)
But it looks like an actual label, like, you know what I mean? But I just put it over the regular label. Anyway, so I took that.

And then I went on Amazon. It was my mother's birthday and I didn't send her anything yet. And I was like, God, I'm a horrible daughter, but this is going to be a greatest birthday ever for her. So was like, I'm going to find something that I could send like right now. And I found this little egg on Amazon that you can like crack open and inside it'll have these little, this little scrolled up paper, a tiny, tiny long scrolled up paper that says,

A little birdie told me a baby is on the way. Isn't that adorable? I know,

Chelsea Myers (27:12)
Oh, that's so cute! Oh my god, yes!

Cat Carnell (27:15)
like a full-on egg you have to crack it open to get that.

Chelsea Myers (27:18)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (27:19)
So I had my mom FaceTime me while she did this so anyway, that's how I told my my immediate family members what was going on and obviously there's excitement with the family members

Yeah, that's kind of how it went. But I think the excitement also kept me from being, what's the word, logical, so to speak, you know what I mean? Cause I just found out, but, and I'm a, I'm a huge researcher. So I researched everything about pregnancies and I even like downloaded this app that tells you how big the baby is and blah, blah, blah. Right. and then

Chelsea Myers (27:58)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (28:00)
Once I got like, I had no nothing more to research about pregnancies births all of that. I had to put my brain somewhere because it was always running. And I started thinking about baby names. So I had a baby name before it like I even found out I miscarried. Yeah. So

Chelsea Myers (28:20)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (28:20)
that's kind of how that went.

Yeah. Yes.

Chelsea Myers (28:23)
Yeah, you I mean you were you were all in you were all in

Cat Carnell (28:26)
I was definitely all in and I think my husband was more excited for me than with me, if that makes sense. I think he was indifferent because he wasn't the one going through it, you know what I mean? But he knew

Chelsea Myers (28:38)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (28:39)
something was happening and I think it took him a little longer to get excited about it, which he did. Yeah, so yeah.

Chelsea Myers (28:46)
Yeah. Yeah. Again, it's this the vibe,

the vibe is vibing. Just this you you

Cat Carnell (28:54)
Yes, exactly.

Chelsea Myers (28:55)
are an all in kind of person. And yeah.

Cat Carnell (28:58)
I am.

Chelsea Myers (28:59)
And when you're talking, you're like, when I massage, I'm a talker. I'm like, girl, if you and I were if you were I were in the same room, we would drive some people crazy. but

Yeah, I have to actively tell myself like Chelsea shut up or you're not gonna actually like you need to just be quiet. my god, please. Like actually relax through this please. my god.

Cat Carnell (29:18)
Same here, yes. So much fun.

Chelsea Myers (29:24)
okay, so you were excited. Your husband was on board, your family was on board, everything was happening. Everything was happening.

Cat Carnell (29:26)
Yes. Yes. Absolutely.

Chelsea Myers (29:31)
when when did things shift? And I know like when you when you mentioned it.

when

we were speaking, like you called it a missed miscarriage. So,

Cat Carnell (29:41)
Yes.

Chelsea Myers (29:41)
so explain, explain that to me a little bit.

Cat Carnell (29:44)
So, okay, the way I found out first of all, I was, it was my first ultrasound. And I walked into this ultrasound, I was so excited about it. mind you, again, I'm going through a financial crisis while this is happening.

Chelsea Myers (30:02)
Yeah!

Cat Carnell (30:03)
Like I was, we got notes on the door about like,

getting threatened for foreclosure once at this point. And well, something will always happen to where we could pay it and then that'll go away. But anyway, with that said, we're at the ultrasound and technician was doing her thing and we were able to see the baby and she was like, how long far, far along are you? I was like, I should be about 10 weeks. And she was like, well, looks like it's eight weeks.

And I'm like, huh. For a moment I was like, did I? had like, my brain never went to miscarriage. It was

Chelsea Myers (30:46)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (30:46)
always, the entire time it was always, okay, so there's something else I'm missing. You know what I mean? So

Chelsea Myers (30:53)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (30:53)
I was like, I wonder if I found out earlier, but that doesn't make sense because most people find out at week five, which is where I was at the earliest, you know? So I was like.

Uh, what else could it be? And I'm like, my brain is racking things, other things up while I'm watching the ultrasound happen. And finally she was like, well, I didn't get in a little closer. So she had to grab a wand to go inside me.

Chelsea Myers (31:20)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (31:21)
Um, and, but nothing was happening. And so she was like,

can't remember what happened exactly. I think there was more going on inside my head than there was actually happening. And that's why the actual happenings, I'm not sure how it happened, but I just remember her saying, I'm so sorry. And I'm like, what? What is happening right now? I'm like, why is she apologizing? Because I

Chelsea Myers (31:46)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (31:46)
knew that something not good was happening, but I didn't immediately connect it to a miscarriage.

Chelsea Myers (31:53)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (31:53)
I'm like,

What? Because I still have it in me. Why is it in this case? know?

Chelsea Myers (31:57)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (31:58)
And, but she kept saying, I'm sorry. And so, it's like, I was a little frustrated at the end because I felt like she was telling me how to feel by apologizing to me, as opposed

Chelsea Myers (32:10)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (32:11)
to sitting me down and explaining what's happening. You know what I mean?

Chelsea Myers (32:15)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (32:15)
so yeah, cause I had no idea what was happening at all. I was just like, I'm sorry. What? Like what's happening exactly?

Chelsea Myers (32:22)
Right, right.

Cat Carnell (32:23)
And.

And it dawned on me after she said I'm sorry for the third time. I'm like, shit, I lost it. And I'm like, but it's still there. I don't understand, you know? And so I had this whole like emotional roller coaster happen between there and the truck to the point where I couldn't even talk. I didn't even cry until we got to

we were on the second floor, we went into the elevator and my husband, I love my husband, he knew exactly what he needed to do. He gave me the biggest hug and held me and I just, like everything fell out of my eyeballs. Like it was like really bad. But that was like the first time I was able to let my emotions out at all.

Chelsea Myers (33:13)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (33:14)
And that evening,

Again, I'm doing all my research and I started seeing the word miscarriage or silent miscarriage pop up. And I'm like, what does that even mean? like, and I think I was talking to Dengus at this one. was like, what is a miscarriage? And it's basically a miscarriage where the body still holds onto the body, the baby, because either it doesn't recognize that it's passed or something, whatever.

The point is the baby didn't flush out and that's why I didn't know I miscarried. I did, that's right. The technician was asking me if I felt a sharp pain in my lower abdomen at some point and I did. And it was the day I ate Wendy's. Yes, yes,

Chelsea Myers (34:03)
And that's why you thought that it was the Wendy's! Yes!

Cat Carnell (34:07)
exactly. And so I think that conversation was what made me

realized what she meant by I'm sorry and

Chelsea Myers (34:15)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (34:17)
Yeah, so I go home and I'm like Researching all this stuff, but the moment I got home though before I was even able to research because I'm still letting this sit you know what I mean to understand

Chelsea Myers (34:31)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (34:31)
it emotionally so to speak and Like cuz logically I got everything but here I'm like everywhere

And I get home, my brother was living with me at the time and he already knew what happened, but at kitchen island, he was cooking and he like had this huge envelope and he was like sliding it towards me. He was like, I am so sorry. And I'm like, why? And I looked at it and I was, he was like, somebody came in and says, you got served. And I'm like, excuse me?

Chelsea Myers (35:08)
my

god.

Cat Carnell (35:09)
And I was, he was like, I don't know what it is. I didn't open it. It's yours. I'm like, okay. So I opened it was from one of the credit card companies. couldn't, we had been having a hard time paying. Mind you, my husband was, he lost his job because of COVID. And it from

Chelsea Myers (35:26)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (35:26)
there, our financial stability had gone downhill. And that was our most rock bottom time. And at the same time,

I found out I miscarried. so

Chelsea Myers (35:39)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (35:40)
my entire, honestly though, because the miscarriage thing happened first, I was like, like, I've already gone through my emotional roller coaster. So when he told me that, I was like, this is kind of funny. You know what I mean?

Chelsea Myers (35:55)
Yeah, well, right like you can't take on one more thing at that point. You're like,

what the what the hell? What's next? Right?

Cat Carnell (36:01)
Yeah, exactly.

So I kind of laughed. I was like, well, that kind of like goes along with everything that's been happening today. You know, like, it was dark humor, right? Like, I, yeah, I, yeah. Absolutely.

Chelsea Myers (36:13)
I'm very familiar. That is my love language. Yeah. Yeah.

Cat Carnell (36:18)
Yes. I was like, well, this is fine. So we were like, you know what, we've already contacted a bankruptcy or a lawyer. So we'll talk to him about that later.

And so, so at least we had a solution for that. And that's when I sat down and I just couldn't take it anymore and started doing my research about the miscarriage, found out it was a missed miscarriage. And I was like, one of the things that, that I really started thinking about was how the fuck did I ever not hear about this? You know what I mean? It

Chelsea Myers (36:51)
Yeah. Yeah.

Cat Carnell (36:53)
like, there's been so many other taboo.

conversations that I that we know of but through the miscarriage I'm finding more taboo subjects that I've never heard about because they are taboo and so that's kind of one of the reasons I got into life coaching because I was like I'm gonna make taboo subjects not taboo like this is getting fucking ridiculous we should know about this you know what I mean anyway

Chelsea Myers (37:19)
Yes!

Cat Carnell (37:21)
one of the things that I learned while I was doing the research for miscarriages is

Because all of this stuff happened from like, from a long time ago, right? But one of the cases where the old ages where people started having some sort of technology to help us medically, right?

Chelsea Myers (37:40)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (37:40)
One of the first people that were able to get into the medical field were barbers. Did you know that?

They're called barber surgeons.

Chelsea Myers (37:49)
Yes.

Cat Carnell (37:50)
They are the ones that do the C-sections or if

Chelsea Myers (37:55)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (37:56)
the miscarriage is not happening, they'll cut it out, whatever. That is like, I didn't even know about that. I was like, that is so terrifying. I'm so happy.

Chelsea Myers (38:04)
You

Cat Carnell (38:05)
am not back. We're not living back then.

Chelsea Myers (38:08)
think the only reason I know that is because I'm into really weird and obscure history. So like, yeah, I knew that like barbers were the first surgeons and like, yeah, yeah, that's crazy, right? yeah.

Cat Carnell (38:14)
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, I know. I've been getting

into history a lot more since then, because that just fascinated me. Yeah, anyway.

Chelsea Myers (38:25)
Yeah. I mean,

off topic, a podcast you should listen to if you're really into that stuff is

Cat Carnell (38:32)
Yes. Yes.

Chelsea Myers (38:35)
Lore by Aaron Mahnke He also has like Cabinet

Cat Carnell (38:38)
Okay.

Chelsea Myers (38:39)
of Curiosities, but it's all like really obscure history and like legends and stuff like that. I think

Cat Carnell (38:44)
Yeah. Yeah. I actually listened

to something like that. I'm going to have to write that down, but I listened

to Bailey Sarian with Dark History. I don't

know if you've ever heard of that one. I love the way she talks because she talks like, like she's gossiping and it's just so much fun.

Yeah. I know. Yes. Yes. Perfect.

Chelsea Myers (39:06)
Okay, that's just the reason that I know about that. But

no, but you're right though, like it is a taboo subject and

Cat Carnell (39:16)
Yes.

Chelsea Myers (39:17)
the whole point of like this space, right, is smashing stigma and talking about the things. And I think one of the things that you said too really hits home for me because something I believe so fully is that we need to understand our bodies.

We need to understand what they're capable of.

Cat Carnell (39:32)
Absolutely.

Chelsea Myers (39:34)
We need to understand what the complications that can happen in terms of our

Cat Carnell (39:41)
Yes.

Chelsea Myers (39:41)
physiology, just in general. so

Cat Carnell (39:44)
Exactly.

Chelsea Myers (39:45)
to go from, like it makes so much sense for you to sit in that, to hear about you sitting in that office and hearing, I'm sorry. And you're like, no, I see my baby. I like, I see my baby. My baby's right there. I didn't lose anything. And I know, why are you sorry? It's right there, right?

Cat Carnell (39:56)
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (40:01)
And that is not talked about enough. We do, we've talked about miscarriage, we've talked about loss

Cat Carnell (40:04)
No. Yes.

Chelsea Myers (40:08)
and the process. And I wanna dive a little bit deeper into it, but you are the first one who has kind of said the quiet part out loud of like, I'm confused, right?

Cat Carnell (40:19)
Yes.

Chelsea Myers (40:19)
Like, why are you sorry? I see the baby right there. whole, yes, yeah.

Cat Carnell (40:23)
Yeah, it pissed me off. Yeah. Cause at the

end I realized what was happening and I was like, are you trying to tell me? I need to be like, like explaining something to me instead of telling me how I'm supposed to feel. You know, it must be frustrating.

Chelsea Myers (40:35)
Exactly.

Cat Carnell (40:36)
It's like, I wasn't frustrated until you, I, dawned on me. And I was like, explain it, explain it. Like she could have told me.

Chelsea Myers (40:43)
Yes, tell me what happened.

Cat Carnell (40:45)
Yeah. She could have told me about the missed miscarriage. The reason the baby is still in you is because, you know, like

Chelsea Myers (40:51)
Right?

Cat Carnell (40:53)
Yeah, anyway, it was very frustrating. Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (40:54)
Yeah. Yeah.

And that is such a valid response. And it's one again, like you said, taboo, frustration is a taboo way. Like we don't hear that so much. You can hear like I was devastated. I was crushed. And those are all valid things as well. But being mad and confused. Those are just as common when you don't when you're like, what the hell is? Yeah, what the hell is happening?

Cat Carnell (41:08)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Because devastation is normal.

That's what you feel when you had a loss. But the frustration came first, you know, before I was devastated. What the fuck are you talking about? Like, tell me more. Educate me. you know? Yeah. So.

Chelsea Myers (41:32)
Please, yes. So

what were next steps from there? Because obviously, baby was still there.

Cat Carnell (41:40)
Yes.

So I did have an emergency appointment with my, my, what are they called again, my OBGYN.

Chelsea Myers (41:50)
Yes.

Cat Carnell (41:50)
And, but I did choose to see a midwife as opposed to a doctor. I wasn't opposed to having a doctor deliver me, but I wanted a midwife in between. So

Chelsea Myers (42:03)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (42:03)
I had a midwife that I was talking to and

wonderful. However, she was, my God, the medical system where the, just to get to that emergency appointment, the frustrations of talking to the people in the medical field was atrocious. Like I was getting so mad. if anybody knows me, don't get mad very easily, but I was going through something and these MFers.

were just, you know what I mean? So anyway, oh my God, it took

Chelsea Myers (42:35)
giving you the runaround. Yeah.

Cat Carnell (42:38)
me forever to finally get an appointment with somebody. anyway, so my midwife, she's like, well, you have three options.

Honestly, I already knew what the options were.

because I did so much deep research and I wanted to know exactly what was going to happen case the doctor didn't tell me about it and something I wanted, you know what I mean? So I can

Chelsea Myers (43:03)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (43:03)
like at least mention and see what the doc says. But she told me everything that I found out on my own, but I let her explain them to me. And she was like, you don't have to answer me now. And I was like, no, I already know because I've already done all my research. She's like, oh, cool.

So the three options were either I did a DNC, which in this podcast, I'm sure everybody knows what that means. I'm not going to get into that. The other one was to naturally let it pass.

Chelsea Myers (43:36)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (43:36)
And the third one, which is the one that I chose, was taking the pills to, it's like basically an abortion pill

Chelsea Myers (43:43)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (43:45)
to flush it all out.

And that I was a massage therapist and I was still practicing, was like, letting it naturally flush would be my preference, but I don't think I could do that to my clients. Cause I can't be like,

Chelsea Myers (44:02)
Yeah

Cat Carnell (44:02)
oh my God, it's happening. I need to go to bathroom. know, like,

Chelsea Myers (44:05)
Yeah!

Cat Carnell (44:06)
let's not do that. So was like, I should probably take the pill. And I wanted the pill as opposed to the DNC because I've heard a lot of

horror stories about DNCs where like, you know, you're in a hospital, so you're rushed everywhere. I wanted to take my time. No matter what it was, I wanted to take my time. And I wanted to say a proper goodbye to the thing that was supposed to be my whatever it was gonna look like, you know? So

Chelsea Myers (44:32)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (44:33)
I decided to do that. And I did it that weekend so that I had time.

And it was the most interesting, like I say the word interesting because it's something I have never experienced before, but it was the most excruciatingly painful thing I have ever gone through as well. And earlier I was saying that I thought,

I could, you know, being a woman, because people are like, it feels like the worst cramps you've ever like, felt. And I was like, I know what bad cramps feel like, you know, I've

Chelsea Myers (45:18)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (45:18)
been through that. can imagine it was nothing like that at all. It was like times 10 times a hundred. I can't even like put a number to it. It was the most painful thing I've ever gone through. And the way it happened was in a two hour time span and it happened.

In the middle of the night like starting at 11 p.m. Mission a star stopped fully stopped around 2 a.m. Like 11 p.m. I was like I'm something but By midnight I was like, okay something is definitely happening, but it wasn't bad But by 2 a.m. It was so bad. I like literally threw up

Chelsea Myers (45:56)
Mmm.

Cat Carnell (45:57)
and But by the time I threw up It happened

And that was the most painful part. And then the pain just stopped. It was like, I could still feel, but because of how painful it was, I felt numb for a moment, if that makes sense. Like it

Chelsea Myers (46:16)
Yeah. Yeah.

Cat Carnell (46:17)
was very numb. But during those two hours though, I was trying to keep it quiet because everybody's sleeping, you know? But at some point it was just so hard to keep it quiet. My dog.

Was so concerned she she actually woke my husband up before Before I woke him up Yeah, the

Chelsea Myers (46:39)
Like, mom needs you. Yeah.

Cat Carnell (46:42)
poor thing was so confused and so anyway, noticed because I'm very aware of my body and my emotions and how what what's happening Through the practice of being a massage therapist like I've learned a lot

And while I was crying out of pain while I was going through this, I noticed I was also crying from emotional, like, because I'm losing it. And I knew

Chelsea Myers (47:12)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (47:13)
that. So there was a crying, an emotional crying where I'm like, basically grieving. And but then it'll turn into a painful cry. Like it was very different.

And I asked my husband, was like, were you able to tell the difference? He was like, there were two different cries. I did notice. I was like, cool. That's interesting. Like I found my experience interesting. Just because of it was such a different experience. I was saying. Yeah. So after that though, my hormones were still not settled.

right, because I just flushed it out. My body still thought I had it and it's still continuing, continuously thinking I'm still pregnant. So the pregnancy hormones are still raging.

Chelsea Myers (48:08)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (48:09)
And so I want to say for two weeks it was raging and I had to go to the doctor every day to check where the hormone levels were at.

And every day increasingly I was going into this. I didn't know what it was at first. was like, I feel like a zombie. I feel like I'm like, I'm not me anymore. I feel empty. I feel like a depleted copy machine. Like I have no ink in me. I have no energy, you know? Like I

Chelsea Myers (48:40)
Yeah, yeah.

Cat Carnell (48:41)
was losing all these things. was like, I felt like I was going crazy. I was like, who the fuck am I right now? Like what is happening?

And I'm always the kind of person that will step back and look at the situation before I react. But there was nothing I could go off of because this is all physiological. There was nothing logical about any of this. You know what I mean? So

Chelsea Myers (49:04)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (49:06)
I still found my calm, but my calm couldn't overtake the depression that was setting in slowly.

And at the end, I was like, I'm just, I feel like I'm gone. Like,

Chelsea Myers (49:21)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (49:22)
there was no more me, but my physical me, I felt soulless. That's the word I used. I felt completely soulless. My body is here, but I don't feel like I'm here. Like my feelings are gone. Like you can touch me and I can feel that. But that, when you get touched, usually you have a feeling of the connection of the person that's touching you. I didn't have that.

Chelsea Myers (49:43)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (49:43)
that

emotional connection of the touch. was like, everything was gone except for the physiological stuff. And I was so lost. And finally I was talking to I call her my decluttering coach because she helps me declutter my emotions. Oh, and this is actually backstepping. I did one day, this one day, it was so bad.

And I was telling my client, was like, I don't mean to like dump this shit on you, but I feel horrible today. Like, is this postpartum depression? I don't know. Like, I don't know what

Chelsea Myers (50:19)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (50:19)
I'm supposed to, what that feels like. I don't even know what this shit is. Like, is it connected? I have no idea, you know? And mind you, client I was talking to was a guy, he's just like.

Chelsea Myers (50:31)
I

don't know.

Cat Carnell (50:34)
I know, the poor guy, like he's practically my friend. like anything I can say to him, he'll just be like there for me. So, so I was thankful for that. But anyway, the next day I woke up and I was like, Holy shit, I feel good. Like I don't understand what's happening. And that day I got to take the blood draw and the pregnancy hormones had dropped significantly.

Chelsea Myers (51:00)
Mm.

Cat Carnell (51:00)
I was like.

Holy shit, who knew the pregnancy hormones could change how you feel to this extent? You

Chelsea Myers (51:09)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (51:10)
know, I was like, fuck. So I wanted to like really get into that and like the research mode, right? But what I did notice was after that, I felt good. had energy. can do all these things, but I still felt off. Like I had this window and all I could think of was I want to be out there and feel things.

I'm like, I'm still missing an emotional component and I couldn't put my finger on it. I wanted adrenaline. Like I told my husband, I need to go get a crotch rocket. yeah. Yeah. I

Chelsea Myers (51:42)
Yeah, I was gonna I thought you were gonna say tattoo like something I need to go skydiving. I need to get a tattoo. I need to yeah. Yeah

Cat Carnell (51:51)
wanted the crotch rocket out. And he was like, live in.

you know, Albuquerque, New Mexico, like that's a death wish because everybody's crazy here, drivers. And I was like, you're right. That is a death wish. I was like, then what was my next one? I can't remember. Like I was throwing out all kinds of shit that had everything to do with adrenaline. And I was like, there's a pattern here. And I'm like, I just want to feel. think that's what it is.

Chelsea Myers (52:17)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (52:17)
I want to feel. I feel empty, you know, and.

I want to show you my book real quick because it's got the picture of what I did at the end. That's my Jeep. Yeah, no, no. Yes, that was

Chelsea Myers (52:30)
You got a jeep. Yeah. With a giant duck!

Cat Carnell (52:36)
that giant duck is what what took me out of my misery. It's real. Yeah, that's real.

Chelsea Myers (52:40)
Okay, I thought that that was not real. When I saw the cover of your book, I thought it that...

Cat Carnell (52:48)
No, I like I bought it one day and.

I told my husband, I was like, look at the cart on Amazon. He was like, okay. I was like, I just

Chelsea Myers (52:58)
my god.

Cat Carnell (53:00)
bought it. And he was like, okay. He was like, where is it gonna go? I was like, it's gonna go to the Jeep. I can't

remember how I came. Exactly, exactly. And I don't know, I can't tell you. Exactly.

Chelsea Myers (53:06)
Yeah, because there's the whole thing, right? Like you duck jeeps. That's the whole thing with Jeep owners. Yeah. Yeah. So you just got the biggest one you could ever find.

Cat Carnell (53:18)
I can't tell you how I came across that idea, but like through TikTok videos and Facebook and all kinds of social media stuff, like I came to that conclusion and I wanted to see how big of a duck I could get and realize I could get it in the Jeep. And I was like, you know what, this is what I'm going to do. And

Chelsea Myers (53:33)
You

Cat Carnell (53:34)
that made me, I drove it around the entire year and I got all these like happy reactions from drivers around me.

And I was like, man, this feels good. It's a temporary good, but at least I was able to feel. And I was like, I love this. So I kept it. And I talked to my, later on, talked to my, my decluttering coach, my life coach. And we had this long conversation about all these things that, like my past memories, what it connected to all this, all this stuff. And what I realized was I wasn't empty. was numb.

So it was a different kind of numb when I was going through the postpartum than what I was going through at the time. And the reason I

Chelsea Myers (54:23)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (54:24)
was numb was because, so, my great aunt, my mom's side of the family, they're a tribal family from in Taiwan. They are the Aborigines of Taiwan.

They're going through the same kind of things that the American Indians went through here, except only recently. They

Chelsea Myers (54:39)
Mm-hmm. Okay.

Cat Carnell (54:41)
were considered savages, all this stuff, and about 10 years ago, they started recognizing them as human beings as opposed to savages. And so anyway, she had this, I have a tattoo here, she had this on her face. Like

Chelsea Myers (54:55)
Yes, which I love. Yep.

Cat Carnell (54:59)
that's the traditional place to have it.

is across the cheekbones and down to the lips.

Chelsea Myers (55:04)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (55:05)
she passed away in 2019 at 113 years old.

And she's always been part of my business. always had her picture up there. I've always felt connected to her since I was a kid, even though she's my great aunt, not my grandma or whatever. But whatever the case is, knowing that she lived for 113, my husband would make jokes that I should not get too comfortable with him because I'll probably have

two or three husbands

Chelsea Myers (55:44)
You

Cat Carnell (55:45)
after him. And that's always been a joke, because that was a joke with my friends too, you know what I mean? And somehow because I got pregnant, the meaning became According to what I found out with the talk that I had with my life coach is that that meant I'm gonna be alone. And this baby was gonna be my solution.

that I'm not gonna die alone. And that became the, like, the meaning of having this baby. And that's why I became so numb because I couldn't handle this, this pain that I had suddenly found. Yeah, so I hope that answers that question. A lot had happened,

Chelsea Myers (56:36)
my gosh.

Cat Carnell (56:37)
yeah.

Chelsea Myers (56:38)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (56:38)
And

the fact that I was able to connect it was amazing in all honesty, because like who knew that that baby meant something, you know what I mean? Deeper than just having a baby, you know? Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (56:48)
Yeah. Yeah. Do you

so just for clarity, do you believe like you believe that that that baby was meant to be your forever person or that that's what you equated it to? And that's why it was so and that and that okay, so it was your belief, right? Yeah.

Cat Carnell (57:04)
I equated it to. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Exactly.

Chelsea Myers (57:12)
And that thank you for clarifying that for me just because well,

Cat Carnell (57:14)
Absolutely.

Chelsea Myers (57:15)
it also it

changes it changes like my understanding of of the situation and how it affected you first of all yeah right yeah um

Cat Carnell (57:25)
I didn't know either, you know, like it took me to talk about it, to connect it. Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (57:32)
as like we talk about we both talked about how like humor and dark humor are coping mechanisms i was gonna say like if you live to 113 um like holy shit i need like whatever

Cat Carnell (57:36)
Yeah. Oh, I know.

Chelsea Myers (57:43)
your family's doing i need to

know this. I don't know if I want to live to 113. but uh,

Cat Carnell (57:49)
I don't know

either, honestly. think a hundred's about where I think I'll be happy to go. Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (57:53)
you'll max out. Okay.

But I also there were several things that I really wanted to highlight. You've done like such an incredible job of walking us through your journey. And like you said,

Cat Carnell (58:06)
Thank you.

Chelsea Myers (58:06)
there's so many facets to it that we,

Cat Carnell (58:08)
it was.

Chelsea Myers (58:09)
I mean, we would never have the time for it in a podcast like this. Like we could do episodes and episodes and episodes. But like you were carrying

Cat Carnell (58:12)
No. Yes.

Chelsea Myers (58:17)
so much. But some of the themes that you brought up are things that

We

haven't even explored extensively on this podcast. So I'm really fortunate that I have that you have shared this journey with me because

Cat Carnell (58:31)
Okay.

Chelsea Myers (58:31)
one like we mentioned before understanding your body, understanding your physiology, not even hearing about what a missed miscarriage I had before doing this podcast, I had never heard of a missed miscarriage. I knew what a miscarriage was. no. And

Cat Carnell (58:43)
I know exactly nobody talks about it

Chelsea Myers (58:47)
I feel like it's something like we just need to understand what our bodies

do and don't do and can do and

Cat Carnell (58:53)
Well,

one of the things that I like, through the miscarriage thought about is if our older generations, they thought keeping silent would be the way to save us. But in all honesty, talking about it would be the way to save us. You know

Chelsea Myers (59:12)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (59:13)
what I mean? Because that gives us knowledge, but it's never been passed on. None

Chelsea Myers (59:15)
Yeah. No.

Cat Carnell (59:18)
of these stories were passed on.

Chelsea Myers (59:20)
Well, and it doesn't mean that it will change the outcomes in terms of

Cat Carnell (59:24)
No.

Chelsea Myers (59:24)
like, we can't control that. Like we

Cat Carnell (59:27)
Exactly.

Chelsea Myers (59:28)
can't control the things that happen that like a missed miscarriage or a miscarriage or child loss, like things like that, or anything in life. Like when you get in a car accident, things like that, like we may not be able to change that, but talking about it can change how we're able to cope with it, how we're able to understand it, how we're able to prepare.

Cat Carnell (59:46)
Absolutely, absolutely.

And

if it was talked about with our family members, we also know who to go to talk about it. You know, and

Chelsea Myers (59:57)
Yes. Yes. Yes.

Cat Carnell (1:00:00)
it was talked about before, you kind of know not only who to go to, but also, oh, this is a known thing. So you can't, you're not going to sit there and be like, oh my God, what the fuck is happening? Like what

Chelsea Myers (1:00:11)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (1:00:11)
is happening? You know?

But if you heard about it, it's like, okay, this is something I've heard about. It's not unusual, you know? Because

Chelsea Myers (1:00:18)
Exactly.

Cat Carnell (1:00:19)
you think you're going crazy when you're going through these things that you've never heard about. So.

Chelsea Myers (1:00:23)
Well,

to take it further too, isn't, obviously, in the state of the world right now, in our country especially,

Cat Carnell (1:00:33)
Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (1:00:34)
talking about abortion and what an abortion is, or

Cat Carnell (1:00:36)
Yeah, it's a huge thing.

Chelsea Myers (1:00:39)
it's so taboo. And understanding

Cat Carnell (1:00:41)
Yes.

Chelsea Myers (1:00:41)
that reproductive health isn't all just like, la-di-da. It isn't even a little bit la-di-da. It's very much about like you.

you had a miscarriage and you needed a procedure so that your body

Cat Carnell (1:00:53)
Right. Exactly.

Chelsea Myers (1:00:55)
could take care of it. Otherwise, there are other medical risks. You can go into sepsis, you can go into like all of these other things. But for

Cat Carnell (1:00:59)
Absolutely. Yes. Yes.

Chelsea Myers (1:01:02)
you, so you did the research, you did the research on your own and you looked up your options. But even then, you didn't know what the pill was going to do. You didn't know what the experiences was going to be The experience was going to be like, and you're not the first person to tell me that. I have heard in the past like

I thought I was just gonna take the pill and that it was just gonna like pass and then I was gonna

Cat Carnell (1:01:24)
Yeah, because

Chelsea Myers (1:01:24)
move on and

Cat Carnell (1:01:26)
the one thing I forgot to mention, because when the doctor or the midwife gave it to me, she was so nonchalant about it. She was like, okay, so all you have to do is put those pills up your vagina and let it do its thing. If you do it just before you go to sleep, it'll probably happen when you wake up in the morning. And if it's just too much pain, just pop in a couple of ibuprofen, you'll be fine.

That was what I was told. So I thought, this is just gonna be like a whatever moment, you know? Yeah, but it was not a whatever moment. No.

Chelsea Myers (1:02:00)
Yeah, that boils my blood. No, it boils my

blood for so many reasons. One because yeah, like physically, it is incredibly, it can be incredibly painful. But also there's an emotional process that's going along with it. I really do feel

Cat Carnell (1:02:12)
Yes, there was. Yes, there was.

Chelsea Myers (1:02:16)
like these medications and these procedures, even with a DNC, you need to sit down and talk about this is exactly what's going to happen. This is what can happen. And also,

Cat Carnell (1:02:23)
Exactly. Exactly.

Chelsea Myers (1:02:26)
these are the emotions that can happen and

Cat Carnell (1:02:27)
Yes.

Chelsea Myers (1:02:28)
that postpartum

depression is a thing. It is so real,

Cat Carnell (1:02:30)
my God, it's so real. Yes.

Chelsea Myers (1:02:33)
even if you have experienced a miscarriage, even if

Cat Carnell (1:02:35)
Yes.

Chelsea Myers (1:02:36)
you don't have a baby in your arms, but your body was pregnant, you can experience

Cat Carnell (1:02:40)
Exactly.

Chelsea Myers (1:02:41)
a postpartum mental health disorder or a perinatal mental health disorder.

Cat Carnell (1:02:43)
the body goes

through a completely different process than your brain does. If there are two different systems, believe it or not. But that's, yeah.

Chelsea Myers (1:02:47)
Yes. Well, yeah, and

you so you because you are the type of person who needs to know needs to understand you did you looked for these things like you even like you said you found out you're pregnant and you did all the pregnancy research and it's it's reminding me of a show I just watched where like you don't even need the midwives like you could deliver your own baby at this point. But yeah.

Cat Carnell (1:03:08)
Yes, I did. Yeah. Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (1:03:17)
and you did the research, but you still were left in this space afterwards of like, what the fuck is happening to me?

Cat Carnell (1:03:25)
Yes.

Chelsea Myers (1:03:25)
And that is so not necessary. Like

it's not.

Cat Carnell (1:03:28)
No. If we, if

all the stories were out there for us

Chelsea Myers (1:03:32)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (1:03:33)
to read, to hear, it, this wouldn't happen. But that's one of the reasons

Chelsea Myers (1:03:35)
just to share with each other, right?

Cat Carnell (1:03:39)
why I wrote the book, because I was like, there's

Chelsea Myers (1:03:41)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Carnell (1:03:41)
got to be more people who talks about this.

Chelsea Myers (1:03:44)
Yes.

Cat Carnell (1:03:44)
Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (1:03:45)
And I'm grateful that you are one of the people talking about it and that you talk

Cat Carnell (1:03:49)
Yes.

Chelsea Myers (1:03:50)
about it so openly. My biggest thing here is like building the village. And a lot of people think that that means like

Cat Carnell (1:03:57)
S.

Chelsea Myers (1:03:58)
when you have a baby or when you have kids and yes, it does, it means that too, but like we, as humans, we just

Cat Carnell (1:04:05)
We need a community. Yes.

Chelsea Myers (1:04:08)
need community. We need village. And

Cat Carnell (1:04:10)
Exactly. I agree with that.

Chelsea Myers (1:04:13)
Yeah, and it means exactly what you said it means. It means us leaning on each other and

Cat Carnell (1:04:18)
Yep.

Chelsea Myers (1:04:18)
trusting each other and sharing with each other so that we can go through this life experience and not

Cat Carnell (1:04:23)
Exactly.

Chelsea Myers (1:04:25)
wonder what the hell is wrong with me and why am I the one that's screwed up? So, because you're not, because you're not. You're not, no, you're not alone. Mm-hmm. Yes.

Cat Carnell (1:04:27)
Exactly. Yeah, you're not crazy. You're not screwed up. You're human. You're just human. You know, that's what happens

with humans.

Chelsea Myers (1:04:41)
my gosh. So I mean, if I could, I would literally chat with you for hours. Because there's, I just, have, there's so much. And I always

Cat Carnell (1:04:51)
There's a lot, I know, there's a lot.

Chelsea Myers (1:04:56)
tell my guests, open invitation, you're always welcome back. But I just, don't, I want to first like take this opportunity again to thank you for walking us through what was such a

heavy and chaotic and confusing

Cat Carnell (1:05:11)
Yes.

Chelsea Myers (1:05:12)
and life altering experience in your life.

Cat Carnell (1:05:17)
Yes, it was.

Chelsea Myers (1:05:18)
I'm so appreciative that you trusted me and trusted this space to share because it's going to connect with someone else.

Cat Carnell (1:05:26)
Absolutely.

Chelsea Myers (1:05:27)
And in that vein, I always like to ask my guests, if there is someone out there that hears your story and would like to connect and would like to

to sort of follow your journey. Where's the best place that they can find you? And I will list these at the show notes as well. But if

Cat Carnell (1:05:44)
Okay, yeah.

Chelsea Myers (1:05:45)
there's like a go to for you, like, yeah, I'm always on blah, blah, blah. Like, yeah.

Cat Carnell (1:05:49)
Right?

I am on all social medias, or I say all, there's so many out there. The main ones, the Facebook, Instagram, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. What is the other one? I think there was one more.

Chelsea Myers (1:06:07)
Is it threads?

Cat Carnell (1:06:09)
I'm trying to get into threads. Substack. I'm also on Substack, yes.

Chelsea Myers (1:06:12)
Substack, okay, love Substack, yep.

Cat Carnell (1:06:15)
But I just send everybody to my website because you can find all of my links there. And my website is the letter B. What's that? That line at the top? my God. A dash. Yeah, a dash would be the word. B-unhinged.com.

Chelsea Myers (1:06:29)
Like an I don't know, a dash? No. Yep.

Cat Carnell (1:06:35)
Yes.

Chelsea Myers (1:06:37)
Yes, yes, I was literally just looking at your Facebook and I was like be unhinged. my god. I love it.

Cat Carnell (1:06:43)
It's actually beautifully unhinged,

Chelsea Myers (1:06:46)
Yes

Cat Carnell (1:06:47)
yeah, I, yeah, yeah, just abbreviating it. Yes.

Chelsea Myers (1:06:50)
it will all be in the show notes.

so, but the, you know, not everybody checks the show notes, but if you want to find Cat, if you want to find Cat

Cat Carnell (1:06:57)
Absolutely.

Chelsea Myers (1:06:59)
B-unhinged, .com. Yes. Okay. Cool.

Cat Carnell (1:07:03)
Yes. Yes.

Chelsea Myers (1:07:05)
And I'm doing this thing, which I kind of get the feeling that you might, you might actually.

Enjoy this little bit. I feel like you

Cat Carnell (1:07:13)
Okay.

Chelsea Myers (1:07:13)
share my a little bit of my woo woo. I'm a little woo woo if you haven't figured it out. So I'm ending my episodes. I'm

Cat Carnell (1:07:20)
Yes.

Chelsea Myers (1:07:22)
taking us back and I know you know we are we are elder millennials here.

Cat Carnell (1:07:26)
Yes.

Chelsea Myers (1:07:27)
Back to the days before cell phones back to the days before you could be immediately

Cat Carnell (1:07:30)
Yes.

Chelsea Myers (1:07:31)
reached. Like you if you needed someone and they weren't there you had to leave a message. And yeah like on an answering machine.

Cat Carnell (1:07:38)
Yes.

Yeah, the good old days, yep.

Chelsea Myers (1:07:41)
So, oh my God, or pray that their sister or their

brother or their parents did not answer the phone. So,

Cat Carnell (1:07:48)
Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (1:07:51)
you don't know who my next guest is gonna be. You don't know

Cat Carnell (1:07:54)
Okay

Chelsea Myers (1:07:55)
if they're a mom, a dad, a caregiver,

Cat Carnell (1:07:58)
Okay.

Chelsea Myers (1:07:58)
what they are. You don't know what their experience is. So, you're a little bit of a disadvantage there, but you called into Quiet Connection today and they weren't

Cat Carnell (1:08:07)
Yes.

Chelsea Myers (1:08:08)
here to answer.

you're going to leave them a message and you can interpret that in any way that you want. It can be any kind of message. And what the

Cat Carnell (1:08:18)
Okay.

Chelsea Myers (1:08:19)
woo woo part of this is that you will have to listen to the episode before yours to get your message. And then I'm going to like check back in with you and be like, did that message hit home or was it totally off them? You know what I mean? Like is the universe actually working with my guests here or like

Cat Carnell (1:08:36)
right? Okay.

Chelsea Myers (1:08:38)
It's an experiment that I'm doing. We're gonna see.

Cat Carnell (1:08:39)
Yeah, no, that sounds fun. I like that. And so

I it can be anything. Okay, it doesn't have to be anything about what I'm talking about. Okay.

Chelsea Myers (1:08:45)
It could be anything. It's just you're telling it to, no, my next, no, it's my next, like, cause

I said, they could be someone who has no children. They can be someone who is a medical expert. It could be anybody. It's just whatever, whatever you want to tell them.

Cat Carnell (1:09:02)
Okay, okay, okay, so this is probably what I would tell that someone is that, you know, I did go through this miscarriage, right? And it shattered my entire life. I was devastated, grieving, all this stuff. But it also brought me a lot of good. And that wasn't something I saw until way after.

But if we're patient enough, we can find that good after. And that would be the why you went through that grief.

Chelsea Myers (1:09:41)
So be patient.

Cat Carnell (1:09:42)
Yes,

Chelsea Myers (1:09:43)
Yeah.

Cat Carnell (1:09:44)
in your grief just to find that peace.

Chelsea Myers (1:09:46)
Yeah, beautiful. I've

never gotten the same answer twice. So that's what I'm saying. Like, this is gonna be really interesting. I know I can't

Cat Carnell (1:09:53)
That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (1:09:56)
I really want people to be like honest with me though and be like the message that was for me. Yeah, that wasn't

Cat Carnell (1:09:59)
Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (1:10:01)
for me. That was for someone else. I don't know who that was for. Right? I don't know. I just

Cat Carnell (1:10:05)
I'm sure the right person will come whoever needed to hear that, right? Yeah.

Chelsea Myers (1:10:10)
so I'm like a big believer in like, I don't know the universe connecting us in ways. Yeah, so

Cat Carnell (1:10:12)
Yeah, no, that's fine. I like that. Yeah,

it's a way of manifesting too. You know what I mean? Yes, exactly. Yeah. Right.

Chelsea Myers (1:10:17)
It's a way of manifesting, it's a way of connecting a little deeper. And yeah, so we'll see how goes with this new season, but.

Cat Carnell (1:10:25)
Well, just to give you an idea, the miscarriage is what's everything that's happening in my life right now is because of the miscarriage. We decided.

to move abroad, not because of the political aspects, it's just because that's what we want to do. We decided to go to Okinawa. we are, yeah,

Chelsea Myers (1:10:40)
Yeah. I read that. Yeah.

Cat Carnell (1:10:44)
we are literally like selling our house right now. That's why everything's so empty. And like, we're literally going embarking on this adventure. We have no idea what's going to come out of it, but we are excited for it. Yeah, so.

Chelsea Myers (1:10:58)
Yeah, yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited.

I'm going to be following along. I'm going to be keeping in touch. I want to know. I want to know. And like you are an all in person. this is

Cat Carnell (1:11:04)
Absolutely, yes. Yeah, I am.

Chelsea Myers (1:11:11)
who I'm excited to see this adventure for you. But yeah, thank you so much. I so enjoyed this. This was amazing.

Cat Carnell (1:11:15)
yes. So thank you. This was my first guest podcast, so

I'm like, I'm super stoked about this. Yes. I know. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Chelsea Myers (1:11:26)
Yay! I'm honored. I'm honored that we were your first podcast experience. You need to be on more because you have you are you're good at this girl. You're good at this.