Fit vs Alignment

Join Kate and Mark as they talk about the difference between trying to Fit into something versus seeing if it Fits you, if you're Aligned with it.  Does it give you energy, get you excited?  That's Alignment in action.  And we also find out Kate needs a better mirror, just like the rest of us.  

We'd still love to hear from you, send us any questions or comments you want to share.  Let us know if it's ok for us to share it and we'll give you a shout out!

Transcript

Mark: Often, I think that, that journey to ourselves is more about this process of recognition and honoring, what it is we can do. When we were having a memorial, For our mother, , she passed away from stroke a few years back and I saw you just hold that space.

Right. I was the minister, but it wasn't me holding the space. It was you and I obviously have seen that, grow over time, but you can do that.  

Kate: It's really interesting that you're talking about that moment because I could picture it and I could feel it as you were saying that. And in that moment, I just didn't doubt myself. I just was, I didn't overthink it. , it was such a raw moment, and I remember that.

I remember feeling completely aligned.    [00:01:00] 

Mark: I bought two of them and neither one of them is filling me with color and pinkness. But it's not bad. It's not terrible. At least you're not in a 

Kate: darkened cave, you know?

Oh, 

Mark: I Love to be in cave. 

We don't have a lot of time today, so I just wanted to jump in, you were starting to tell me. Last time we were talking, you were having some thoughts about your coaching and kind of the direction that you were wanting to head in. what's going on? 

Kate: Well, I had this realization that I , trying to think now, I feel so long ago, but essentially in my background is, nonprofit management 

and yet I also , have done a lot of work with kids. But basically, you know, how I've been struggling, like am I a life coach, am I this coach, am I that coach. [00:02:00] And it seems like you get this like name and it's your executive coach or this. And I know all through my coaching program, I really struggled because you know, who am I, am I this or that?

So, I had this realization. I can't remember the thing that actually triggered it last week. But something had happened at work.

 It was like a series of events that essentially made me realize I don't want to sell myself as a management coach , I just really want to coach people. And the closest thing we have to that right now is life coach or transformational coach.

You know, those two words sort of keep it open. Like one of transformational coach that's what she named herself. 

Mark: We really must be twins because that's what I'm calling myself. A transformational coach. 

Kate: Yeah. Well, how about that? Hey, and the [00:03:00] audience doesn't know that we did not have this conversation ahead 

Mark: of time.

 That's so funny. I did not expect you were going to say that. 

Kate: Well, I had a coach, a faculty that I loved, and she was a transformational coach. And. I guess the reason why I like it is because I worry about using the word life coach because I just don't know how that connotation hits people, you know, like I just, I don't really know.

But what I realized is that I just don't want to be narrow anymore. I want it to be more open to work with anyone and to really be the heart of coaching. , the act of coaching, not necessarily that I want to be successful, coaching managers or coaching executives, or coaching middle aged suburban women, you know, like I realized I, I don't really want to do that.

I want to be more open and be just a really good coach for humans. 

Mark: Coaching for humans. Dude, let's steal [00:04:00] that one. That's good. I love it. Yeah. You know, what about 

Kate: you? Sounds like you also had a draw to a name. 

Mark: Well, I mean, as you well know, there are literally feels like a thousand ways you could brand yourself as a coach, but it's interesting.

You're saying this too, because it's a Friday. And every time by the end of the week, or even sometimes earlier, I feel like there's a theme for the week that comes up with the clients I'm working with. And I was just talking to someone about fit versus alignment.

And the way I think about it, is, fit is when we're trying to see if we can fit into a particular box, right? Or how can we make this work, you know that one. Yes. Really well. Yes. The big yes, head shake. 

And that's how we think about it most of the time. But alignment. . Is what fits you.

Kate: Exactly 

Mark: what do I want? [00:05:00] Right, which is not about right or wrong. It's what is the thing you're aligned with?

Where are you getting some energy? What are you feeling motivated towards? You know, I mean, that's how I've arrived on this journey of exploring coaching. is by saying, okay, I felt like I wasn't fitting in the therapy box so well anymore. The thing I'm really motivated by is transformation.

That's the thing. That's what speaks to me. When I did the hospice work all those years ago, and I sat in on my first hospice, grief group.

 Right away it was realizing, wow, this is about transformation. I didn't know about grief at that time, but I knew about transformation . And I get excited about the thought of helping people move from their coping self to their authentic self.

Right. So the transformation is not into something else. It's into ourselves. Yes. 

Kate: Yes. I just got chills on that.... But you're, you're onto something there, Mark, because, I am the [00:06:00] perfect prototype for that. Like, often thinking I have to do, be, or say something in order to transform, right?

It's like there's something outside of myself or I need another degree or I need another certificate. This is what my friend Melissa was just saying to me. She goes, you are not allowed to go to school for one more thing. She said, if you want to do that for fun, great, but she said, you already are this.

You are this. And so I really feel what you're saying, really feel that, that I have lived that I am living it.

Mark: Interesting. You said it because I share a story often of how our mother when she came out to my ordination, when , I became an interfaith minister that.

There was supposed to be a counseling aspect with it, so spiritual counselor was supposed to be part of being interfaith minister, , but they didn't do any counseling practice. We talked a lot about aliens and all kinds of other things. 

Kate: Faith counseling for [00:07:00] aliens.

Mark: We had some talk about Catholicism and what they talked about was how, , life came here on an asteroid. And about aliens, but For another podcast, but what our mom said was essentially you can do this right now, the counseling, but I was like, well, I haven't had the training. You know, I didn't go to school.

 And I feel like now years later, I realized she was right in terms of the innate skill set or desire, to listen to people, the curiosity ability to hold space. But I needed the experience to actually know that I knew it. That makes sense, right? That, okay, this was something that I could do.

Yes. Often, I think that, that journey to ourselves is more about this process of recognition and honoring, what it is we can do. When we were having a memorial, For our mother, , she passed away from stroke a few years back I saw you just [00:08:00] hold that space.

Right. I was the minister, but it wasn't me holding the space. It was you and I obviously have seen that, grow over time, but you can do that.  

Kate: It's really interesting that you're talking about that moment because I could picture it and I could feel it as you were saying that. And in that moment, I just didn't doubt myself. I just was, I didn't overthink it. , it was such a raw moment, and I remember that.

I remember feeling completely aligned. 

But you know what I hadn't even thought of until you said that was. My whole journey in my coaching classes, and journey in the program, I've shared this with you before that almost the most consistent feedback kept saying, trust.

Trust your intuition. Just be Kate. I literally have that on my wall right [00:09:00] now that I look at. It says be Kate because I kept thinking I need to. , do whatever they're doing, or I would hear a really great question or someone do a coaching move right before, it was my turn. I'd be like, Oh, my gosh, I don't know how to do that.

That was really good coaching, you know, and so that comparison piece but, what you're saying is very true, at least it really resonates with me. cause I was unconsciously once again, trying to narrow and box into something that I thought would make sense in the world, and then I had this moment, I had a great coaching session and I was so energized after it.

And then I had another conversation about coaching with my therapist, actually. And I, again, I got really energized and I just got so excited and I realized I just want to get off the hamster wheel. You know, I feel like I'm on this, hamster [00:10:00] wheel. And I'm in my own way and I know it and I just want to rip that thing off, 

 I want to be Kate. So that's really my journey right now is I'm trying to, not trying, but. Yes. I am. I am trying, I guess I say that because it is a new experience for me. it's very difficult to figure out how do I sell myself or present as a coach, , cause the world tells you, Oh, you should have a brand.

You should have this. You should have that. And I know that helps, but that's not how I feel inside, you know? 

Mark: So I mean, what you're, what you were describing with feeling of, you just kind of knew in that space. Like the doubt goes away that to me is that indicator of that authentic self.

Right. Because you're in your inner authority, mm-Hmm. . And it's not power over. It's just we just know what we know. And I think that, [00:11:00] 

Kate: go ahead. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. I didn't mean to interrupt you. You go. 

Mark: No, you go it's an indicator to me that we're in the right space.

Because we're accessing our intuition, we're grounded. We're connecting to ourselves. And it is amazing how the mind quiets in those places. And to me, that's something we can trust, and it feels pretty awesome. I have to say, it feels pretty great when you're in that space. And again, it's not authority over, but it is saying, hey, This is what I see.

This is what I know, and having done the therapy thing for, almost 15 years now, you realize that you need that in order to be consistent, I don't have to know the answer. I just have to know my answer, I just have to know what is speaking to me. And when we're in that place, we are consistent.

, I say the same things, over and over [00:12:00] again, because I see the same things. It gives people something to work off of, we encounter something the Brene Brown video, you know, whatever it is, right? And then we resonate with it or we don't.

And when I think about the coaching thing, I'm drawn to what I call the deep divers. The people who have curiosity, ,who often feel outside the circle. Because they have this thing that they're drawn to, the sense of meaning or purpose.

There's a depth. And, the shallow swimmers of the world, which is, I'd say it's about 80 20. Shallow to deep. Lots of places they can go. To kind of just get through the world. Right? But not so many places for deep divers. So I feel really passionate about planting the deep diver tent pole.

 And saying, hey, you know, let's... Let's gather because it's not easy. , I say it's not for the faint of heart. IT's not going to be easy, but it's gonna be meaningful A woman I worked with in the grief counseling was going through this profound loss [00:13:00] and what she said was she and she was an Artist, so I don't know maybe this was part of it, but she said this is a really rich experience, Not what you would expect, right?

But it's true, it's a profound thing. So to me, that's what I think when I hang up my proverbial shingle, I plant my flag on a Hill. It's going to be. The Deep Diver flag, it's about feeling okay to walk in the world as your true self. Yeah, yeah. 

Kate: What was the thing that you said earlier?

You said going from coping... What was it that you said earlier? You're coping from 

Mark: your authentic 

Kate: self? Yes, 

Mark: yes. And so if you've been trying to fit yourself into the world, saying that you have been, but, and then you come to a place where you know what, this doesn't like feel so good or work so well, but this challenge that we have of, , okay, [00:14:00] how can I be myself in the world?

I feel like a lot of times people will put it down to like, how do I make money being myself in the world? Like, how can I be successful as myself in the world? Because typically, you know, the world has not reflected back to us that that's an awesome thing, being yourself in the world, 

or being who you are. So it feels like that's often a big mental leap. Or spiritual leap, everything leap for someone to feel like they could, actively pursue that or open to it. 

Kate: You know, you're making me think about a conversation I had this past weekend with Melissa, my very dear, dear lifelong friend.

aNd we've been playing around these cards., they're called the cards of plenty, and they're just filled with the most wonderful images and sayings. And , for a couple of weeks, I kept getting the same card. And it was how I'm not, I may not say this exactly, I almost want my deck is right over there, but I could find it.

But it's something like, Oh, I [00:15:00] think I took a picture of it. It is

something like, Oh, here it is. It says what I survived matters. How I survived it holds the keys to how I can heal it. I like that. And what was really interesting is when you were talking about that, about making money. , because of my experience in the world, that has been a source of intensity.

, my need to survive as a single parent of three kids. And, you know, survival was a big theme in my life. And , how did she say this to me? , I had this epiphany that I have this sort of weird judgment on making money coaching, right? 

Mark: About making money that if you were, 

Kate: yeah, yeah, like me, like it's difficult for me to ask people to pay me to coach, 

and what I realized is like when I show up to do my management job or, my, my job that I'm doing now, I don't have any problems with somebody paying me to do what I'm going in and doing [00:16:00] yet. Here's this work that I'm so excited about. So I want to do what I feel like this challenge of asking, , for money.

And we were, we were trying to figure out like, what would my rates be? And like, how would we do this? . So I kept getting this card. This card is just keeps showing up in a deck of 82 cards, you know, and I realized that if I think about that, one of the things that kept me going was my drive to provide for my kids, my drive to be a solid financial provider for my kids.

Like no matter what happened, if I knew if I had that, we would be good. And I thought about flipping that right driver, like what. I survived matters, how I survived matters. So , that skill that I had to do that, that drive, how do I flip that into this new profession and this new way of being that, that I do have that skillset, I just.

It was through a more [00:17:00] traumatic experience, rather than this happy, very, very happy experience. So it's funny because I never thought about it in terms of that. I was thinking about it more in a different way, but . I just had this epiphany that that was one of the things about that card That to be I don't know if this is making any sense.

It is 

Mark: So you listeners don't know this but so you just said a lot don't know if that makes sense Right, you just said a lot of truth. It makes perfect sense. You're giving me chills because i'm like you know, I can't say it's just a deep diver thing it isn't but When we have survived something, we acquire great skill, but it's hard to appreciate it because it's just about surviving.

Right. , and I think this is part of that transformation piece. Just what you said, Katie, it's beautiful. It's like, okay, if I can see I gained this skill, I didn't want to much rather, go back [00:18:00] and not have learned this, but everybody I've worked with , in a deep way.

It's all the same. You know, we learn this skill and if we can, if we can own it now, we transform it. Now it's okay. I had to survive it using this, but you know what? Now I got this tool and I'm going to use this tool to help myself to help others. Because you know, some shit, man. Right, like when I think about the fullness of you like this idea, okay I'm gonna be this transformational coach.

I mean, there's so many places you Kate could go single mom raising kids, being in an education system . And the non profit system, , you know, aging, the garden. I mean, all kinds of stuff. You got all kinds of stuff, .

So it just opens up , a lot of possibility. 

Kate: Right. Well, thank you for saying that. And that's kind of exactly what Melissa was saying, you know, and the other card I've got, okay, [00:19:00] this was for the deep divers.

So I said to the card deck after we were building a business model , she was helping me build a business model for the coaching business.. Like how many sessions would I need, you know, pay my bills basically, everything else. So I was asking the deck, what's the key, you know, what's the most important thing I need to know or something like that to activate, , to get my business going . So I pulled the card while I was looking at Melissa She was like walking away and I looked at it. I didn't like it. So I put it back in the deck This card that I'm gonna show you And then I pretended that I didn't pull the card and then I shuffled shuffled again and pulled it Card came back.

Now, what are the chances of that? It's a frog looking in the mirror. Oh I said, I don't like this card. She goes Kate. This is because this is how you perceive yourself It's time for a change. Great [00:20:00] But some something wanted to be said there I mean literally I pulled it again I just felt felt like a little sign from the universe 

Mark: You need a better mirror But it's true, I like that idea because you know, it's that feeling of,

 We learned to survive or that feeling. Sorry, put it this way. The feeling of threat that we can have about being ourselves in the world, I think, typically stems from that feeling of when I was myself , it didn't go so well. And that's, you know, rooted in our childhood, we had experiences in which it sure felt like, the person did not like us, 

it felt very personal. , and we are just ourselves in that space, right? So there's a lot of wiring that comes from that. So when we look in that mirror, that is what we see, and I, I often feel like, what has to happen, not has to happen, but helps to happen is to have things [00:21:00] reflected back to us in a way we can actually take it in.

And I think this is one of the. Beautiful potentials for you with coaching, is that when you do it as you do it, and we can see that who we are is actually benefiting someone or we're accessing that inner authority, that intuition, and it feels good.

We feel some energy. it Begins to chip away. Breaks that mirror I have this dream of having a smash palace, I do, and you know 

Kate: that that exists, 

Mark: you know, but it's like I want my own. Yeah, yeah, open one where I live now. And of course, you know, in Japan, there's probably a million of them because they have all those kind of things.

 But imagine that right, everybody's got their mirror and they're like writing whatever on it just smashing that puppy. Yeah, we need a new mirror. But the only way I've seen it happen. Is that we can be told about it a million times, right? I've told [00:22:00] you, Melissa, right? Many other people have told you about your awesomeness, but we need to be able to see it reflected in a way that we can't miss it.

So you look in that mirror one time, you're like, Oh wow, she looks pretty good.. We think that we're the frog and not the princess or prince.

Kate: Yeah. Yeah. That's true. It is true. That's a very, all right.

Mark: That's a good one. That one is, that was very helpful. Didn't think this was going to be a session, man. 

, Well, 

Kate: it was on my mind because this just happened. So 

Mark: wow, that's good. That was a good one. A little synchronicity, I was literally talking about fit and alignment with someone, 

and you come on, like, see, that's the cool shit. Like, the cards you drew, I cannot tell you why, we don't know why this happens, but it happens, when we are moving more into that place of flow, we experience [00:23:00] a bunch of synchronicity, a bunch of interesting things, because, when we really commit to something, then all manner of things seen or unseen, that is a quote, come to our aid. Because now we're no longer looking for the closed doors, right?

We're looking for the open ones. We're looking for the way forward I think what it really touches is that it changes our perception. So we're telling the brain to start looking for possibility, and not for lack, not for reasons to survive.

Mark: Yes. And I think about how much the world could benefit from my beautiful sister 

Oh, thank you. Oh, 

What would that be like if you could see, I mean, I want that so badly for the people I work with and that I care about , to see with a mirror that truly reflects.

Mark: Who they are. Mm-Hmm. . Oh yeah. That's some good shit, man. 

Kate: Yeah. That is some good shit. There's nothing [00:24:00] more than that, honestly. 

Mark: And to me that's the reality. Meaning that mm-Hmm, , what people see in their mirror is not true. It's a distorted image. That comes from how we did experience the world.

So it's powerful. And I think the work of coaching, counseling, whatever, is we're helping people have a truer reflection of themselves. 

Kate: Yes. And what I love so much about coaching is, It's their process for them, by them, in them, right? , when you're coaching, when you're really, really doing great coaching, you are not involved. you're making offerings through your questions, , like you're inviting things, but ultimately it's their experience. And I love watching and listening. As someone you can feel the gears turning, , or the light bulb or the, or whatever it is.

And they have moved themselves to some, , new idea [00:25:00] or perception or seeing themselves. And I think that's why I love it so much because it is the process that you're talking about. You know, it is, and I love that so much., 

Mark: I think that's a good point to stop on. Yeah, 

Kate: that sounds great.

Perfect coaching infomercial there. Yeah,

Mark: It 

Kate: was great because pretty soon I was gonna have to say I gotta 

Mark: go. And you 

Kate: beat me to it so you 

Mark: got it. Well, I like this idea, coaching humans. Nobody take that if you're listening , and it's not trademarked. Coaching humans to me, the more human we can all be, the better it is. So, 

Kate: I'm really glad you set this up, Mark. This is great. It's funny. I was so worried about doing this because I've just been so busy and everything, but it was actually great because I felt very present, like I wasn't overthinking it.

You were like, let's do it. Okay. Let's do it. It was good. 

Mark: Well, it's [00:26:00] great to see you. 

Kate: You too. You too, Mark. Thank you. This was great.