Conversations with My Sisters' Keepers
TRIGGER WARNING -
THIS PODCAST CONTAINS THE STORIES & EXPERIENCES OF THOSE WITH LIVED EXPERIENCES OF GENDER-BASED VIOLENCE. CONTENT MAY BE TRIGGERING.
Welcome to "Conversations with my Sisters' Keepers," dedicated to normalizing the trauma recovery experience of survivors of complex trauma and gender-based violence (GBV). We bring awareness, share stories, and promote healing-centered conversations for lived experience professionals and allies in the gender-based violence and recovery sectors. By sharing authentic stories and experiences, we hope to break down stigma, promote understanding, and celebrate the self-discovery within healing.
Together, we’ll explore strategies, resources, and insights to support wellness, recovery, and leadership. Join us as we challenge stigma, celebrate autonomy, and normalize the healing journey.
Let’s build a community of understanding and empowerment—one conversation at a time.
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Conversations with My Sisters' Keepers
Healing Beyond Trauma with Dr. Lauren Casey (Part 2)
The episode emphasizes the transformative journey of survivor leaders and the importance of adopting a healing-centered approach. Dr. Lauren Casey shares her experiences, advocating for community support, the empowerment of survivor voices, and the ongoing nature of recovery.
• Discussion of the need for a healing-centered focus in recovery
• Insights on identity, self-worth, and personal experiences in the sex industry
• The therapeutic role of relationships in recovery journeys
• Value of community and shared lived experiences among survivors
• Importance of organizations providing inclusive support for survivor leadership
• Encouragement for survivors to persist and embrace their healing processes
• Practical advice for organizations to actively listen and support survivor voices
Welcome to Conversations with My Sisters' Keepers, the podcast where we bring awareness, share stories, and promote healing-centered conversations for lived experience professionals and allies in the gender-based violence and recovery sectors.
I'm Shamin Brown, and together, we’ll explore strategies, resources, and insights to support wellness, recovery, and leadership. Join us as we challenge stigma, celebrate autonomy, and normalize the healing journey.
Thank you for joining us. We have our sister's keeper, Dr Lauren Casey. Dr Lauren Casey possesses over two decades of experience collaborating with regional, national and international organizations dedicated to mitigating health disparities among sex workers. As a preeminent authority on the North American sex industry, she has contributed extensively to scholarly literature, including publications with Springer Publishing, Rootledge International, University of Toronto Press and leading journals such as the Journal of Addiction Research and Therapy and Qualitative Health Research. Dr Casey has delivered over 100 presentations globally, encompassing academic and professional forums, where she integrates her empirical research with personal insights from her lived experience in the sex industry. Welcome, Lauren, I'm so happy to have you here.
Speaker 2:Good to be here. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and to all of you listening, thank you for joining us today. Conversations with my sister's keepers are crucial for survivors and survivor leaders everywhere. It's time to advance beyond trauma-informed and resilience-based narratives of surviving, thriving and leading, and to embrace a healing-centered focus on wellness and recovery. Today, we aim to challenge the stigma and judgment that many survivors encounter during their healing process. By sharing insights into our own recovery and wellness journeys, I believe we can normalize the ongoing and cyclical nature of the recovery experience.
Speaker 2:Work hard and things can get accomplished, and that was the beginning of a whole new life. Yeah, I remember hiking up Diamond Head in the the morning. It was like a sunrise hike, just sitting there looking at the sunrise and thinking, wow, you know what I didn't? I didn't have to do sex work to get here, like yeah yeah, you know so, yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1:So there's some. There's some strengthening of identity, there's some pride. There are some self-worth that is gained.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And when you're making that much money. I didn't respect money. It just came and went right Like I just blew it I. I didn't have a thing to show for it.
Speaker 1:I think it's really interesting that you can sit here with me and you can say I was a sex worker. I chose to do that. It paid for school. There was no abuse. I have no history of trauma that would have made me vulnerable. I had more money than I could do with and I still chose to accept and I still chose to advocate against exploitation. I think that says a lot about all the learnings and all of the self-development that occurred for you after exiting which is very powerful things that you weren't able to experience in that space.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, that's amazing. So when we think about all of the stuff that you've done which is like it's got to tell everybody out there that you've always been my superstar, right what you're saying about lived experience, too, I think is valuable. On the one hand, I hear you saying I met other people who were in the industry, who were there by choice, and being able to share those stories without the stigma that might've occurred with someone who, for example, had been there as a survival, sex or whatever right Stigma, jealousy, resentment, who knows what surfaces for folks when they're healing. But to have those lived experience spaces for folks who are pro-choice, who've exited as well, sounds like a valuable experience. But then, also looking at lived experience beyond that people who have shared lived experiences of addiction or shared lived experiences of mental health so really having folks who are in recovery, who are relatable, who can share tips, tricks or really just validate and normalize some of the shit, right, absolutely absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:And what did your professional journey look like? What were the challenges and also what were the most meaningful parts of that?
Speaker 2:well, I'd say the first year was focused on sobriety, only sobriety, and part-time work. And then I flew back up to Canada and it was there that I started doing work actually with the organization at that time that was running groups. Right, dream Catcher, I started doing that.
Speaker 1:So so yes, that was about 25 years ago and that was sorry. That was as a lived experience professional.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I was hired to co-facilitate a group, yeah, and so I started there and then, because I didn't finish my master's cause I was so fucked up, I ended up going back and finishing my master's and my thesis was entitled Women Crack Cocaine Addiction in the Sex Industry. So I interviewed people that had that experience and I graduated. And then, following that, I ended up being hired in Victoria, british Columbia, to run PEERS, which is sex worker led organization.
Speaker 2:I was the executive director there and then I changed positions and I moved into more national work with Status of Women Canada. So I was hired to head up this national organization by and for those in the industry. So I got involved with that and I did that for a couple of years and then I got accepted to the PhD program at University of Victoria. Dr Cecilia Benoit has done a lot of work in the field and she was my doctoral advisor my research was looking at triangular relationships between workers, clients and managers owners in the industry across Canada.
Speaker 2:So I've kind of always been doing it in one form or another. And then when I moved to Los Angeles in 2011,. I kind of took a step back because I was so involved in my activism that I lost sight of who I was, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:So immersed in it and living and breathing and you know I mean everything in my life was surrounding it that I literally stepped back, focused on graduating. Then I graduated and then I did the work in prisons and jails and that's where I met a lot of people that did not have great lives and they were recycling in and out. They'd have like boyfriends waiting for them the day they were with air quotes, boyfriends yeah, I learned the whole bottom bitch and all of that terminology.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and now I'm just cycling back into this work again it took some time, and then I went into private coaching and case management, which is what I'm doing now with everybody, all people. So I do that that are trauma survivors that are in recovery from trauma or all kinds of people families, people dealing with, yeah, trauma, perhaps individuals who are dealing with substance use disorder um, they need help and, just like making bigger, brighter lives, they're further along their journey and helping them to achieve goals and all of that.
Speaker 2:I love that my heart will always be, obviously, in this work. I just took some time for me, I think it's important because I couldn't identify as oh, I'm a former Right and that was my whole activism. Hat was like who am I again?
Speaker 1:Like I lost myself again in that, so yeah, yeah, and I think some of those transitions let's call them in identity are common to all folks. They just maybe a little differently for us. Like, I'm going through a transition right now where you know the kids are the youngest ones, turning 18 in a couple of weeks, and you know they're homeowners and they're working and they're doing whatever they're doing, which is supposed to be really great, right? Oh yeah, the world's opening up for me. I have so much free time. Except for that, I went from, you know, prostitute to mother.
Speaker 2:And now.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh, what's routine, what's discipline? I wake up in the morning. I'm like, well, I used to make breakfast for the kids and then drive them to.
Speaker 2:You know, like things are feeling a little wonky doodle and then in terms of the work.
Speaker 1:Like, I chose work and workplaces that would allow me to focus on being a mother first, sure Right. And so now I'm like, oh, what am I going to do? Like, yeah.
Speaker 1:But there's pieces there too, you know and again this is normal, right, women do this and emptiness syndrome like this. This is part of the transition of identity. However, when you have all of these other pieces, you know, when you're looking back at all the years that were wasted and some of the challenges emotionally and otherwise that still surface, like that transition can feel a little bit more uncomfortable or frightening, because again you're facing the unknown. And for some folks that's really great. They are able to meet the unknown with a lot of confidence, likely because they've been raised in really secure settings. But for us that's enough to throw you right back to where you came from if you're not careful.
Speaker 2:I know, I know so true, yeah, so true.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm wondering about triggers and how they might have surfaced, like I'm hearing you say, I had, like this really terrible crack in the chin and I had to get out of there and quit everything and then I went back to school and studied. Oh, that sounds triggering and also sorry. Those triggers might look different, like I know for myself. Uh, there's still triggers around healthy relationships. It's still something you know when it's a really good relationship.
Speaker 1:I kind of want to run, yeah, yeah and that's some work that I gotta do right like yeah, that's okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we can communicate.
Speaker 1:We work through it um, but it's noticing that it's there right.
Speaker 2:Triggers. They come in all forms. I mean, what was a trigger back then is not necessarily a trigger now. But when I was living in Victoria I was doing a lot of harm reduction so I was handing out clean supplies. How was that for?
Speaker 1:you? How did you maintain your wellness?
Speaker 2:It was, interestingly enough at that point gotten to five years of sobriety, so it didn't impact me like it did in the beginning. But I remember going to a harm reduction conference in Toronto and I was like what's this? There's all these rock pipes coming out of filing cabinet where they're talking about clean. You know, I'm like why wasn't this when I was around, right?
Speaker 2:so I mean that was a huge trigger. But they change and I think too, like you said, relationships right, like I, I did have boyfriends when I was in the industry. I mean I was with them but then I would step out. So I would have two years kind of just single and then I'd get into and all of my past relationships were nuts, like they were crazy. Right, I have this incredible marriage that that is based on communication, trust, loyalty all of the things that I used to run from because I do but um, yeah, triggers come in all forms.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I don't get them though, like I did, like they do lessen certain triggers, like I can see somebody actively using and have more compassion for it rather than I wish that was me right and what's what's made the difference?
Speaker 1:I'm really what like teach me when we've got a healthy relationship. How did you stop running?
Speaker 2:I want to know well, that's a whole other TV movie. Our, our marriage. I'm writing my memoir, um, but yeah, no, I. I met him through very odd circumstances through director of one of the rehabs I worked at, and at that time I was coming up on one year of sobriety and then I left and I went back to Canada, and so him and I just started getting to know each other over a period of time like really just like the lost art of snail mail like letters and stuff like that and we slowly got to know each other.
Speaker 2:I mean, I wasn't even interested initially, I just didn't want a relationship of any kind and so for the next 10 years I really just did a lot of work on me. And then my green card came but I couldn't live in the US yet because I had to wait, because I left the US Long story after we married and they won't let you back in until the green card. I didn't know that, so we just continued this long distance relationship and it's the best thing that ever happened to me, because I got to know somebody on the inside and I got to like start to to just learn who I am and what makes me want to run Like I would say to them.
Speaker 2:I'm a runner, like just letting you know, right, this is what I do. Bless you. And so, long story short, I mean we will have been married 23 years.
Speaker 1:Wow, congratulations, that's beautiful.
Speaker 2:It's hard to believe.
Speaker 1:That's gorgeous. So it sounds like what I'm hearing you say when we talk about your professional journey is that you kind of did the slow crawl from local to global Um and uh. You know there was more triggers maybe originally than now, but you've learned how to navigate those, and I'm hearing finances was one.
Speaker 2:I'm hearing relationships was one, identity was another, the other thing that I still struggle with is again from that knife to my throat. So I still have the PTSD. So any so any loud sudden, like if I'm driving right and I've got a passenger move over and. I just lose it if somebody talks really loud or like goes any kind of loud noise, and that's a response from yes, I've heard that right. I've learned that like I thought what's wrong and oh yeah, okay yeah, well, that's such.
Speaker 1:A really good point too is that you know, in our recoveries, even as professionals, could be 20 years later, because who knows how the mind wants to work, right? Um, but the idea that we can have trauma responses and have no freaking idea where it came from or what it is, which is really harmful when we're in spaces and places that are telling us that maybe we're not healed enough to do the work, or just kind of silencing the voices. Because, as we've said, having those experiences normalized as part of the healing process, and when you don't feel like you can talk about them and you don't know where they're coming from and you don't know what's causing them, then you internalize all of that as something wrong with you, right, you not being good enough or what have you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, exactly, I've just learned to live with it. I've learned that in this life, we're learning every day.
Speaker 2:Like you're never there, you never arrive right, and I'm such a goal-driven person, right like yeah but now I've learned to just settle in a bit more and find the middle, because it used to be way back there or forward here and I couldn't find myself in the middle. And that's probably the biggest growth I feel. I I never thought I'd say I just want to be the middle. You know right, yeah, huge aspirations and but really I just want to be who I am. I just want to help a person you know go to sleep at night with a clean, clear conscience and be a good friend and a good family member and just live a simple life.
Speaker 1:What would you say? What would you? What advice would you give or feedback would you give to organizations that are supporting survivor leaders?
Speaker 2:First and foremost, please step aside. When I say that, I don't mean step aside like move, I mean step aside to let survivors into the front, carry them up, make space, hold them, recognize they're in their journey, that they're not going to be healed. I mean the work I've done with all kinds of people in the industry. I mean there's flat out fights I've broken up right between, because lived experience is so different for every single person. So just to recognize and honor, how close are they away from it? Are they just leaving this life? If so, there's going to be some trauma, responses and some things to recognize. And it's not them. It's what's been conditioned right. Allow that that space, like you said, and the voice to shine through regardless of how it sounds.
Speaker 1:Making space for survivor leaders to take up some space in the front lines, but also having an understanding of trauma and being able to work with them where they're at being more mindful about what they might be experiencing based on their stage of recovery and exit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and no. Two people's experience is the same, Even the work I do now. Right now I'm working with neurodivergent youth in Palm Springs and these people have different levels of neurodivergence right, Some are non-vocal, vocal and but everyone has their own way of learning and growing. So just to walk with them and not in front of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what does that look like? Like I just I'm wondering if you know if an organization was listening and say they're brand new and they're like, yeah, walk with them, I want to walk with them. What are some practical things that we do when we're walking with people?
Speaker 2:that we do when we're walking with people.
Speaker 1:First and foremost listen. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Hear what the person is saying, without trying to change or somehow navigate something that you think is going to work. Just step back, like that's what I mean by step back.
Speaker 2:So that's number one. The second thing would be to also give space for the individual to grow and heal and know that everyone heals differently. So if somebody's having, for example, a bad day or you know, really going through it to be some support for them and to have other supports in place, everyone's going to be dealing with something. And the third thing I'd say is just to continually take the voice and if you have some kind of skill set that they may not necessarily have example creating curriculum I'll give that as an example. Right, get, get a board, write down their exact answers and develop it with them, not what you think.
Speaker 2:This amen, yeah, yeah that's it.
Speaker 1:I love that. Yeah, I think too often what we do, or what organizations do, is they hire lived experience people because there's the funding for that or it looks good. It sounds, yeah, um, but the level of inclusivity in the programming, even acknowledging like I can't tell you how many programs I've contributed to and my business logo is not on one single one of them like right, so even acknowledging the contributions and the epistemic expertise of lived experience people, creating pathways for them to elevate instead of keeping a ceiling on their growth um, you've got, you've got five voices in the room. Four of them are saying something you don't want to hear, one saying something you do want to hear. And then you go and you take that one thing and you say, well, we had five lived experiences and this is what we're doing. That's not the word, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and avoid tokenism, like there's nothing worse than putting somebody up on a stage. You know, tell your story right. And then the person on the stage is like feeling raw and stripped because they're not ready to stand up in front of people who are then?
Speaker 1:pulling out their purse strings Like where do I get all the money for our?
Speaker 2:organization Because this person's story is so powerful.
Speaker 1:But then they're lost, and you know, lost in the shuffle yeah, well, and, and so you know, sometimes I think about lived experience as an investment and we say that there's value in lived experience. We know, based on research, that it is best practice to have lived experience people in the field of sexual exploitation and sexual abuse. Having said all of that, we don't epistemically recognize lived experience there in the field of sexual exploitation and sexual abuse. Having said all of that, we don't epistemically recognize lived experience. There's no additional payment. Actually, we underpay people with lived experience because we are disqualifying the fact that they are facing their trauma on a daily basis and we are putting more emphasis on a piece of paper that reinforces westernized thinking yes exactly right.
Speaker 1:And and systemic institutions. Um so I like all of that's really backwards, and I think that when we're engaging lived experience people, we need to do so with the idea that this is an investment, not just financially. I don't want to hear that it's too much money to provide supports for lived experience people. If that is the case, then do not hire them.
Speaker 2:Exactly the end.
Speaker 1:If you do not have them. I can't go to the jewelry store and buy a five carat diamond because I can't afford it. It's worth the investment, but I can't have it. Yes, right, so yeah, exactly. What advice would you give?
Speaker 2:to survivor leaders, utilize support from those who have walked in the path before. So people that have already been survivor leader, like mentorship, right, like work with somebody, because when something comes up that you're unsure of, to have that support of somebody who's had the similar experience, so that always know your voice matters, no matter what, and keep that known. Don't let people try and muffle or mute you. Let people try and muffle or mute you the narrative that they want to have and just continue to do the work and always, always, always seek support, because it's difficult work, it's hard, it's sacred work, but it's hard. Like I said, I had to take my hat off and come back again and now I'm ready again, right like what we're in 2024.
Speaker 2:I'm in 2011. So yeah, and recognize if the burnout starts happening. Honor that you know. Talk to somebody who's been there because I know what it looks like.
Speaker 1:I didn't when I was in it yes, yeah, you don't, and I think that's where we look to organizations again to do some, you know, emotional monitoring and mentorship around co-regulation of our responses. Yeah, that's part of mentorship when we're looking at hiring lived experience people or engaging lived experience people. I think something else that's valuable when we look at what organizations can offer and how they're engaging lived experience people is making sure that there's networks where they can have those shared experiences and bounce things off. And unfortunately, when we think about lived experience professionals, that is not existent. There is no supports for the ongoing recovery of folks who are actively doing the work in the fields that they were victimized. And that's concerning to me, because if we're going to have groups for people who are just exiting, recognizing that they've had a plethora of trauma, then why are we not also creating spaces for the ongoing recovery of folks that are doing this work with that?
Speaker 2:history. Absolutely, it's so important yeah yeah it's a really good point. Yeah, um, my visionary hat is coming on okay yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, you'll join me in january. I'm going to be doing some online stuff for our lived experience folks, so I would love to start doing some brainstorming I see partnerships happening with you, my friend oh, absolutely, we're gonna have lots of fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, tear the house up in a new way. Yeah, um, we're just going to close with this last little piece here. Um, so, thinking about you know, all of the experiences that you've had, your professional journey, your recovery, both early and late, is there a message of encouragement or guidance that you wish to leave for the survivors who are still fairly early in their recovery journey?
Speaker 2:Don't give up, definitely stay. Just stay and know that the work you're doing is going to help so many people and never, ever forget where you've come from and where you are today. So in my own life I look back, say let's go 10 years back and see where I am today and value that whole journey, because even the difficult times will, will help to learn and grow and continue growing. Right, yeah, they shape us. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that. Yeah, and so then the last one off the top of your head. If you were to think of someone who does not have lived experiences of sexual exploitation, sex trafficking or sex work, who's had a meaningful impact on your life, someone who you would identify as an individual who supports survivor leadership, who would you want to give a shout out to, Because this is your chance.
Speaker 2:Oh boy, there's so many.
Speaker 1:That's what I said off the top of your head.
Speaker 2:I know I mean because I've done so much work around the world yeah I would have to say, um, going back to my coalition days, dr susan strega was very instrumental. She traveled a journey similar to me and she was exploited, so she had that experience and then she kind of ranked herself along the lines of going back to school and really getting involved in coalition work and activism work and ultimately becoming PhD and teaching social work. And she really, really represents, I think, beautifully the lived experience and I've always looked up to her yeah, it sounds like she really motivated you and set the tone for your aspirations, for yourself yeah, she was great she was someone who does not have lived experience.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna say um, can I say my partner?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can say anybody you want.
Speaker 2:Unconditional love. We he's my biggest uh support and we have such incredibly difficult almost memoir to come Similar experiences of, of lived experience. His is completely different, but yet the work we do now and he's just yeah, I'd say he's my, I'm his biggest fan.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've heard a lot of that in the research that I'm doing too. When we think about the wellness of lived experience folks that are working in the field, you know.
Speaker 2:Safety starts at home. It really does.
Speaker 1:When you have a healthy partner, when you get to that space where you can find and build a relationship with a healthy partner, that does become probably the most significant and supportive relationship.
Speaker 2:We're very interdependent, unlike any partnership I've ever had.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, beautiful. I'd just like to give you a little bit of space here before we close up to share with folks that are listening the services you offer, how people can get a hold of you. I don't know if anyone from anywhere in the world can reach you, or only certain spaces and places. So, yeah, just gonna create some space for you to share what you do and how folks can reach you yeah, so, um, I do this work on a broad scale, so I work around the world.
Speaker 2:Definitely, recovery coaching is probably the area I'm most versed on now, and I work individually with people that are going through whatever it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter what it is whether you're in the beginning stages of trying to heal or you're further along and you're trying to figure out where to go next. I do private recovery coaching and support, and the best way to reach me is my email and my website, so my website is laurencaseycom.
Speaker 1:Beautiful and how can folks get a taste of you? Do you have a YouTube page, any social media? How can they maybe access some of the articles and publications that you've done? Is that all on your?
Speaker 2:website. Yes, it's pretty much all on my website, so Lauren Caseycom.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I also have an Instagram. It's Lauren Casey PhD. That's more kind of like the life stuff that I do, so it's it gives an idea of the things I like to do, which I help others.
Speaker 1:Okay, I love that. Yeah, beautiful, all right, is there anything you'd like to say before we say goodbye to our listeners.
Speaker 2:Just thank you, you're amazing.
Speaker 1:It's good to see you, our listeners, just thank you. You're amazing.
Speaker 2:It's good to see you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for including me Well, and thank you for rising to the call, because you know these things don't happen on their own and we do need all the colors and crayons in the box. So I'm happy to be here with you. I've always admired you, I've always been really proud and in some ways, both yourself and, I think, jennifer Richardson have been my Susan Schrega, so it's been really great to have this conversation and share with each other, share with folks our conversations and what it's like to be a sister's keeper.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you have a great day.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you so much. You have a great day thank you.
Speaker 1:This is real women, real lives, real talk. Thank you for joining casual conversations with our sisters keepers. Until next time, take care.
