What Romance Novels Teach About Sex That Nobody Else Will | ft. Christina Braver

Less than 2% of men have a penis larger than 7.5 inches. Yet nearly every romance novel hero does. And that's just one of the ways we're accidentally doing people harm — through the very stories meant to turn them on.

In this episode of Between the Sheets with Dr. Z, Dr. Stephanie Zwonitzer, DNP sits down with romance author Christina Braver for a conversation that's equal parts hilarious, eye-opening, and genuinely educational. Christina writes what's called "steamy open door" romance — meaning you're in the room, with all the language, dirty talk, and real human messiness that comes with it. But unlike most of the genre, her books feature heroines with endometriosis, survivors of sexual shame culture, women who can't orgasm with a partner, and men who have their own wounds around sex. Real people. Real problems. Hot outcomes.

What you'll learn in this episode:

• Why neuroscience says reading about sex activates your brain almost identically to having it — and why that matters for arousal and desire
• How romance novels can be the safest way to explore a fantasy before ever bringing it up with your partner
• The real reason women loved 50 Shades of Grey (hint: it's not the BDSM)
• Why the "bigger is better" myth is actively hurting men — and what the research actually says about penis size and sexual satisfaction
• How to use a book, a podcast, or a short story to start the conversation you've been afraid to have
• Why vibrators are tools, not competition — and why if you can be replaced by one, that's useful information
• What the menopause low libido experience actually feels like from the inside, and why your partner not wanting sex probably has nothing to do with you
• The four most common female sexual fantasies — and how men can tap into them without becoming someone they're not

Christina's books are available at christinabraver.com, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and Kobo. Her resources tab is stacked with sexual health reads worth bookmarking.

📅 Dealing with low libido, painful sex, or hormone changes affecting your intimate life? Let's talk. Book a consult at reviveish.com

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Episode is sponsored by Boston Scientific and EDCure. For more information click here:
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Transcript

Stephanie Zwonitzer (00:01.228)
Hey everybody, welcome back to Between the Sheets. We are happy to have you here today and we are also happy to have our esteemed guest today. I have with us Christina Braver. She is amazing. She is an author and in the romance novel genre and she believes that quality sex education is not universal and by reading romance, it can be some people's only exposure to have some healthy sexual relationships.

learn about women's sexual pleasure and how we should focus on that. Sexy toys, dirty talk, tips, all the kinds of fun stuff that she can fit in her book that maybe we don't find other places. So welcome, I'm so happy to have you here.

Christina Braver (00:44.046)
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (00:46.967)
So this is awesome because there are many reasons.

need arousal before they can be in the mood with their partner with themselves, whatever. And one of the great ways to do that is reading romance novels. And I agree with your point on education, because you might not think something sounds sexy until you read it. And then you're like, maybe that does turn me on. And then you can talk about it with your partner or you can explore it yourself. I love this genre.

Christina Braver (01:24.078)
Absolutely, exactly. I think a lot of people can explore new ideas through reading romance novels. Like it's safe, it's a safe space. I talk a lot about fantasy. Fantasy is involved a lot in reading romance and writing romance. And sometimes we think fantasies are taboo things. It's usually like it's dirty or it's kinky or it's something that we shouldn't.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (01:32.323)
Mm-hmm.

Christina Braver (01:53.006)
be thinking about it's bad, it's wrong. Certainly if we grew up in sexual shame culture that sort of shamed our sexual ideas and thoughts and feelings, we can feel like it's bad. And I would not want to have a conversation with my partner about, my gosh, what if they thought I was into this weird thing or whatever. But through reading a romance novel, you can kind of explore it. We read things, reading something. Neuroscientists tell us that

Stephanie Zwonitzer (02:17.112)
Mm-hmm.

Christina Braver (02:22.53)
when we read something, our brain lights up very similar to if we're actually experiencing it. Or when we watch a TV or a movie, our brain lights up in a similar way than if we were actually doing that thing. Like when you go to a scary movie and everyone's in the front, scared, you're sitting in suburbia probably, or you're sitting safely in a movie theater watching this movie, but your body thinks what's happening on the screen is happening to you. And it's a little bit of the same thing when you read something.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (02:27.084)
Okay.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (02:33.934)
Mm.

Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (02:47.138)
Mm-hmm.

Christina Braver (02:51.306)
you do get a little bit of that experience and you do get a little bit of that surprise that, wait, this, I'm reading about this. This is kind of turning me on. Why is this turning me on? What do I like about this? And a lot of times it's not, you know, it's not something, a lot of people think that because 50 Shades of Grey was about, had a lot of BDSM in it, that people who liked 50 Shades of Grey like BDSM, but not.

Not really, it was about an obsessed partner, which is not safe in real life, but someone who loves me so much that they change their life, right? That's a fantasy. Again, not safe in real life, but super fun to experience. So how can I bring that? I know I like this. I know this turns me on. How can I bring that to my safe relationship, my safe partner? Those kinds of conversations. Yeah. So romance can...

Stephanie Zwonitzer (03:30.467)
Yep.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (03:43.916)
Yeah, it's amazing.

Christina Braver (03:45.742)
can get us exploring new ideas in a safer, more approachable way than for me to just go to my partner and say, so I would really like for you to act like you're obsessed with me because that just would turn me on. That would be sort of, mean, our partners would probably be like, okay, let's talk about that. But it's still an awkward conversation.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (03:55.47)
You

Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (04:04.76)
Right.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (04:08.332)
Yeah, it can be. so one of the things too that I like to have people do, whether it's listening to the podcast, reading a book, whatever, is if you find something that intrigues you like that, share it with your partner and be like, hey, read this section of the book, because I was a surprise that it actually kind of turned me on and I want to know what you think. And that really takes some of that.

I want to try this. you know, something like that out of that conversation is like, hey, read this and let's talk about it. Listen to this podcast. Let's talk about it because you're right. A lot of times it's scary to talk to your partner about something that you haven't tried before. And their mind immediately goes to well, what made you think of that? Who did you try that with or something like that, you know, and if you say like, look, I read it in this book, it's right here. That kind of can settle them down and know, okay, you're not cheating on me. You're not out there, you know, watching

Christina Braver (04:33.166)
Mm-hmm.

Christina Braver (04:53.869)
Hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (04:58.832)
20 hours a poor in a day, something like that where you're coming up with these ideas, it is very innocent and safe the way that you're doing it.

Christina Braver (05:01.39)
All right.

Christina Braver (05:06.752)
Exactly. And the books that I write are dual POV, which so it's I have a chapter in the female perspective. I write cisgender straight because that's what I am. But, you I have a chapter that's in the female perspective and a chapter that's in the male perspective. And I say to couples, you know, read them together and then talk about what you both like because and it could be even saying, you know, I really liked it when he did this or I really didn't like it when he did this. Like this part of what

Stephanie Zwonitzer (05:34.499)
Mm-hmm.

Christina Braver (05:36.716)
of this game that they're playing, I didn't really like that. It's a safe way to give a cue to your partner, particularly if you are the woman talking to your male partner. Patriarchy culture today tells men they're supposed to know everything about sex. They're supposed to pass a calculus test without ever going to class, right? They're supposed to know everything about sex. They're not supposed to ask questions. They're supposed to be great at it. And so giving feedback that is less good or less positive,

Stephanie Zwonitzer (05:54.156)
Yep. Yep.

Christina Braver (06:06.2)
can really impact some men's ego, psyche, confidence. So having a way to say, know, I really like this game that they were playing here. I really like what they were doing here, but I didn't like this part of it. It might be better if he was doing maybe this or that. That's easier to say than if you are having this, if you're trying these things out with your partner and your partner might be doing things that you don't like.

That's an easier way to cushion the blow. Just because I do think, like I say, particularly for men, because the expectation that they are sort of immersed in from birth is so pervasive that they really are supposed to know everything and be good at it. And that's a tough road to walk. And so anything that we can do to sort of help give that feedback in a way that we let them know.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (06:53.218)
Mm-hmm.

Christina Braver (07:03.394)
this is something I like that's maybe not so direct to them that can be helpful too.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (07:08.278)
yeah absolutely absolutely what tell me a little bit about your books what are you right i know you said cisgender and heterosexual which is fine i mean i would probably write the same because that's what i am it doesn't mean we don't support all the things and so tell me a little bit about what someone can experience reading your books are they really graphic are they not really graphic is there a love story with it what can people expect

Christina Braver (07:21.046)
Right. Exactly.

Christina Braver (07:37.39)
Absolutely. So their romances, they follow all the beats. They're what's called steamy romance. So there's a little bit of a line between what we call steamy romance and or open door and erotica. Erotica is less of a plot, less of a story. Most of the action happens in intimate settings and situations. and

Stephanie Zwonitzer (07:49.965)
Okay.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (07:57.997)
Okay.

Christina Braver (08:00.406)
Erotica is absolutely a valid genre. It's our sub genre. It's not what I write specifically. I do write steamy what's called open door. So you are in the room. The reader is in the room with a couple when they are having intimate experiences. so I use all the language. there are curse words in there. there's dirty talk. There's all the things, right? But there's absolutely a story, absolutely a romance. The, try to have.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (08:02.766)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (08:18.179)
Mm-hmm.

Christina Braver (08:30.134)
One of the things that we do as writers, we try to have external goals, internal goals. And I try to have one of those at least be something related to sex or intimacy. So for example, in my most recent novel, the heroine, the female main character has trouble orgasming with a partner, which is something that's pretty common. She had a common...

Stephanie Zwonitzer (08:42.283)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (08:52.782)
Mm. Yeah.

Christina Braver (08:57.912)
traumatic experience in college and it's really sort of made her feel less confident in her body. so giving herself over to pleasure in the presence of a man is difficult for her. And again, something that's pretty common, I think for a lot of women. And then there's also women struggle to orgasm, some women struggle to orgasm period. And then you have men running around, you know.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (09:20.908)
Yeah, right.

Christina Braver (09:23.66)
You've been kind of watching porn thinking all I have to do is pound her three or four times and it's going to be great, right? And you're like, no, no. So, so much misinformation. So one of the things, because that's such a common struggle, I included that as one of the wounds that my heroine struggles with and that her partner is not intimidated by that. And he doesn't see it as his problem to solve necessarily that orgasm doesn't have to be the only goal.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (09:28.717)
Right.

Christina Braver (09:53.518)
of an intimate connection, right? So he certainly has those internal conversations with himself, like, you know, gosh, I'd really like to make her come. And, you know, I'd like to be that guy. Wow. Of course I'd like to be that guy. But he sort of stops himself and he recognizes that, okay, this is some of my programming. What I need to focus on is making her feel good and making her feel safe. And then, you know, enjoying myself in there. So there's times when he comes first.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (09:53.773)
Yes.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (10:02.712)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (10:11.852)
Right.

Christina Braver (10:21.952)
or he's the only one that comes, which seems a little taboo in romance novels. We're not supposed to do that. She's supposed to come first and then he comes and, or they come together. know, it's just, so, right, right. You know, I mean, it's possible. I've had someone, had someone ask me like, if coming together was actually possible. And I said, well, I'm only, I can only speak about, you know, a study that includes one couple. And I can say that it is possible, but, you know.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (10:29.26)
Right.

Right? Yeah, the ultimate bologna.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (10:48.44)
Yeah, it is. It is. It's just rare. It's rare. Right.

Christina Braver (10:52.91)
It's just rare, right? It's not, it shouldn't be the goal. So anyway, so I think that's, that's kind of what I'm exploring in that book. Some of my other books, I have a book called Your Turn, where the heroine is a sexual shame culture survivor. And so she's really struggling to deal with these feelings that she's having. She's left that world and she wants to have a healthy sexual relationship. She meets a man, he's a little bit older, he's divorced. He actually is divorced because

His partner wanted him to do some things that he wasn't comfortable with, which is a little bit of a turn. Like I try to twist things a little bit, know, flip them a little bit unexpected. So his partner wanted him to do some things he wasn't comfortable with. She ended up having an affair because he wasn't able to be comfortable doing things she needed or wanted. They weren't able to negotiate that out. I think they just didn't have the language and the connection. So that relationship ended. And so he's got a little bit of a wound about sex.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (11:29.858)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (11:46.893)
Mm-hmm.

Christina Braver (11:51.47)
She's got a wound about sex. so together they try to figure out how to have a healthy relationship on that meets both their needs. it's kind of, they all have something similar. My first book, The Heroin, she's a survivor of endometriosis. And so she had severe endometriosis, had to have a hysterectomy, and she meets this guy, or I'm sorry, she had to have a hysterectomy. So as we know, endometriosis causes really painful sex. And so...

Stephanie Zwonitzer (11:59.415)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (12:07.534)
Mm.

Christina Braver (12:20.598)
She didn't have a very good experience with sex. And she's like, well, I can't have this. I can't have babies. I can't have a family. So I'm going to go figure out what all the fuss is about with sex. And she meets this guy, and he kind of thinks he knows everything about sex. He's had a lot of sex. And so, of course, he knows everything, right? Well, she's a little different. She's a little more complicated. He can't just do the same things he's always done, and she's just going to be safe and come.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (12:36.654)
You

Stephanie Zwonitzer (12:48.782)
Great.

Christina Braver (12:49.686)
Those are the kinds of things that I explore in my books. But there's swoony, there are romance, there's absolutely an external plot, a story that's not related to the sex, there is, I really try to focus a lot of energy on helping people who see, people who have these experiences feel seen in the stories.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (12:56.611)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (13:09.964)
Yeah, no, that's amazing. Every topic that you just talked about are things patients come and see me for. They are issues that truly are seen, are experienced every day. And you're right, they're not in normal books. They're not in movies. You don't see women having pain with sex in a rom-com on Hallmark, you know?

Christina Braver (13:34.25)
You don't, it's true.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (13:35.502)
So I love that you're allowing these women to be seen and these issues to be explored in a very positive way.

and you know I'm sure your books have good outcomes for these people and things like that. So yeah, so it gives them hope, it gives them something to work towards, and that tool like we talked about like hey read this book because this is a lot of what I experience. I can see myself in this character. I want you to kind of have a better understanding of where I'm coming from. I think that's just amazing that you're able to do that and to make it a genuine story as well that someone wants to read.

Christina Braver (13:50.094)
Absolutely.

Christina Braver (14:15.15)
Absolutely. I think one of the things that I believe is that if we write these stories, people think that that's the only... If we write a certain kind of story, a certain kind of hero or heroine, people might think that those are the only people that deserve pleasure. Those are the only people that are sexy.

so a few years ago, there was a big reckoning in the romance genre around racism and sexism and, gender, genderism. so a lot kind of broke open and now we have a much more diverse. Writership readership and writership in romance. so part of the issue with, with that was that if we saw, if we wrote romance novels only about cisgender white, straight.

women who are thin, tall, with long blonde hair and blue eyes, big boobs and a little waist, that we might think that if we don't look like that, we're not sexy. If we don't have a magical experience and come with our partner, we might be doing it wrong. What's wrong with me that I can't do it the way all these books say this? Why can't I do what's happening in all of these books? And people can feel like there's something wrong with them. And so the romance genre really tried to change what our heroines look like.

We didn't, we still have some work to do on our heroes, which is a little bit of my pet peeve. But the point was so that people could be seen and know that all people of shapes, all sizes, all genders, all orientations deserve pleasure, deserve love. And we want to reflect that in the stories that we tell. Like I said, I do, we do have a little bit of a pet peeve with our male heroes. Everybody seems to be tall and have washboard abs and a giant penis.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (15:37.666)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (16:03.02)
Right? Yes. Right!

Christina Braver (16:04.258)
that doesn't hurt. And I am like, this is the unicorn. So I'm not saying that that man doesn't exist. I'm sure he's out there in the same way that cisgender straight, skinny white blonde women exist and deserve pleasure. This guy who is tall and cut and has a giant dick that he knows what to do with, he's out there. He's just not out there as much as we might think he's out there in books. And...

You know, a lot of times there's this myth that bigger is better. In reality, bigger is not better. And I'm so frustrated that we put this message out in books a lot that he has this giant dick and it feels great and we don't have to use lube and we can have sex 20 minutes later after we had sex with a giant dick. These things don't have, these are just biological rarities. mean, having a giant dick.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (16:39.278)
Correct?

Stephanie Zwonitzer (16:53.934)
Right.

Christina Braver (17:01.366)
Research tells us that less than 2 % of men have a dick that's bigger than 7.5 inches, Less than 2 % of men have a dick this size, yet every romance novel hero seems to have a dick this size. So I don't want to send the message to women that this is a magical thing or that there's something wrong with their partner. If they're not experiencing pleasure at sex, it must be because my partner's not big enough.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (17:07.82)
Right, right.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (17:13.55)
Thanks.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (17:22.04)
Mm-hmm.

Christina Braver (17:30.798)
That can't, that's not true. I don't think women, I don't think women think that, but I don't want us to try. I don't want us to start thinking that, you know, and I don't want, I think men do, um, men do think that if I can't please her, it's because my dick's not big enough and it has nothing to do with your dick size. Um, almost always like 99.9 % of the time it is not to do with your dick size at all. So I struggle with that. I have such a heart for men and I see.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (17:35.472)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (17:50.732)
Right, right.

Christina Braver (18:00.418)
the sort of messages that they're receiving. And so I want to try to change that. And my little corner of the world is writing romance novels. So that's where I try to change it.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (18:07.384)
Yeah, yeah, I think that's great. I just had a guy this past week, a 29 year old come in and he was very concerned because his penis doesn't feel like it's as big as it should be. He feels like it's the same size it was when he was a teenager, you know, and all of this and...

you know, it's difficult in that setting as a patient provider relationship to be like, your dick's fine, man, like you're good. But like, you have to kind of say that in a way too, because that's literally what he came in for is, I think my dick's too small. And, you know, he was a very strong, attractive young man. And, you know, I think he was having

Christina Braver (18:49.388)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (18:53.034)
a lot of anxiety going into sexual relationships because of this. And I had that conversation, you know, the average penis is five and a half inches. And if you're anywhere close to that,

you're good because that means 50 % of men are smaller than that. If five and a half is the average that means 50 % are smaller. So you're okay and you know women don't need that big of a penis and things like that like what you're taught in like the social context of society about what women want in a penis is just so not true.

Christina Braver (19:12.398)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (19:31.148)
bigger than eight or nine inches is painful and you're probably painful at eight or nine inches too. You know depending on who you're with. Yeah, yeah it's insane.

Christina Braver (19:37.71)
Absolutely. Mm-hmm. mean, even bigger, you know, could like six inches, depending on your partner, it can all be painful for your partner, right? And so being aware of that, knowing that being a good lover is something, it is a skill to be learned. It is something you can learn how to do. And there are so many quality resources out there, but we don't talk about them. We don't. There's books.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (19:46.274)
Mm-hmm.

Absolutely.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (19:57.368)
Mm-hmm.

Christina Braver (20:06.69)
There's omgs.com from the Kinsey Institute that is just, I tell everybody it's so fabulous. And I tell like, if you have a Volva, if you are interested in pleasing a Volva owner, this is your first stop. Like go to this website and learn. It's just such quality. It is, and it's even better. Like it's just so much better.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (20:12.194)
Fabulous. Yes.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (20:21.741)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's like Netflix for vulvas.

Christina Braver (20:33.97)
I have been having sex with the same partner for, how long have I been married? 30 years, like I've been having sex with the same person for 30 years. And we still learn things on that site. Like we still find things like, hey, that's right. Let's read this and then, that's right. Yeah, we do need to try that. Or you're right, that is probably why I'm struggling with this part. Or, you know, all the different things. So it's such a great resource. I can't talk about it enough, but there's so many things out there for men.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (20:40.845)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (20:52.365)
Yeah.

Christina Braver (21:03.266)
to help educate them about how to be a good lover. also there's a lot of, there are some resources out there. I just finished a book by Kenneth Play called Beyond Satisfied, which I don't know if you're familiar with the book. It was, you know, he is a lay person, but, it's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But what I really took away from that book was he is so confident about getting the message out to men that it is not about dick size. And

Stephanie Zwonitzer (21:15.885)
Yeah.

Christina Braver (21:32.608)
in a lot of ways, an average dick is better. One, because it doesn't hurt. can, you know, if you have an average size dick or a little bit smaller, you're, you're having sex. You can have sex with that dick 20 minutes later and then 20 minutes after that. And then, you know, an hour after that, you know, you can have sex all weekend with a dick that's that size. But if you're really big, you can't have sex all weekend with that dick. You're going to have to get creative because penetration is not, it's going to be kind of less.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (21:38.2)
Mm-hmm.

Christina Braver (22:01.784)
going to have that less often. So there's so much information out there and I really hope that men will take advantage of it. I'd love to create a safe space for men to feel like they can ask these questions and they can read this information because again, it's just like women used to be able to have to get under the covers to read their romance novel with the bodice ripper cover. Sometimes I feel like men are underneath the covers reading these books that tell them,

Stephanie Zwonitzer (22:05.527)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (22:24.43)
Yes. Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (22:30.487)
Yeah.

Christina Braver (22:31.714)
Here's how to please a woman, you know, kind of, it's not something to be ashamed of. It's actually something that I think is super sexy. A guy that's willing to read a book and learn how to make me feel better in bed is, goodness. Yeah, I want that guy. Absolutely.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (22:33.271)
Right.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (22:43.062)
Yes, amazing. Yeah.

That's a great quality. Yeah, it's a great quality. I think that's amazing. I, you know, you're right that there's just not enough support out there for that. And quality education because they go watch porn, these guys have massive dicks. They're using things to get that size. They're using implants, they're using injections and things like that and camera angles and all of these things. But yeah, I think it's so important to normalize using

lube, normalize having other things besides penetrative sex, you don't have to have penetrative sex to have sex, to have intimacy. You can take that completely off the table and have one of your best sessions ever.

Christina Braver (23:31.086)
Absolutely. I, I, in my most recent book, I do write a session where they don't have, they don't have penetrative sex and, and it is good. And she is able to orgasm with him, you know, because he is going down on her, which is a, really common way that a lot of women are able to orgasm. And so that happens, they have that experience and here's this, here's this thing she can't do and she is able to do it and it had nothing to do with penetration. And

Stephanie Zwonitzer (23:47.822)
Mm-hmm.

Christina Braver (24:00.398)
I think that's really important and can be a magical thing. I just, like I said, my heart goes out to men. A lot of the information that they're getting is not helpful. It's making them feel badly about themselves and it's not necessary. And I hope that we can find a way to change that message. Absolutely.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (24:18.924)
Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, what you're saying is so great too, because the books that you're writing, yes, you're you know, your heroine is a female and things like that, but they're available for the guys to read too. And, you know, they there's so many ways that we can read now with Kindles and different things like that, that you don't necessarily have to carry around a book, you know, and you're sitting in the tire repair shop with this novel. And everybody, every other guy in there is looking at you like, why in the hell are you reading a romance

novel at the tire shop. Like you can put it on your Kindle and nobody knows what you're reading.

Christina Braver (24:55.402)
Magic. It's wonderful. Yet you can put a romance novel on your Kindle. You can put a sex education book on your Kindle. Like you can listen to it on audio. Nobody has to know. This can be your little secret. Absolutely. That's one of the great things about one of the great technological advances. The invention of e-readers research told us that the invention of e-readers caused the romance industry to explode more than any other genre.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (25:02.658)
Mm-hmm. Yes!

Stephanie Zwonitzer (25:13.378)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (25:21.856)
Interesting.

Christina Braver (25:24.172)
all, you know, exponentially more than any other genre. And I think that's because now anyone could read a romance novel. You know, before, like I said, women, was women reading them hiding in the underneath the covers or something they had to do at home where no one would see them. Right. And then you had e-readers and now anybody and everybody can read whatever they want, wherever they want. And so readership really exploded. And it is something that I do hope that men will will read more. And it's again, it's not

Stephanie Zwonitzer (25:25.581)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (25:35.308)
Yep. Yes.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (25:45.709)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (25:52.29)
Mm-hmm.

Christina Braver (25:53.762)
certainly not perfect. think if I were a man, well, I can relate to it a little bit because when I read those stories, those older stories where the woman is perfect, that sometimes, you know, I have to sort of set that aside and say, I'm old enough to know, no, that's a perfection. I don't have to be like that to be sexy.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (26:04.546)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (26:11.938)
Right. Right.

Christina Braver (26:14.606)
And so I hope that men who are reading romance novels and the dude has a big dick and she loves it and she can't shut up about it and blah, blah, blah. I hope they can sort of set that aside and recognize that that's not really the point of the story. Whenever I do encourage men to read romance novels, I'm always a little bit, so caution, a little bit of caution. And also like I also encourage men to think about, you have to look a little bit beyond the surface. Again, like 50 Shades of Grey.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (26:32.757)
Yeah, yeah.

Christina Braver (26:42.734)
Women loved it. So women must want to be tied up No, not necessarily. Let's talk about why women like it. What what are the fantasies and 50 shades of gray in particular leans into four very common female fantasies one to be completely taken care of when I when I read 50 shades of gray, my kids were in elementary school and early middle school and you know, and if you don't know the story what happened he they just see each other on the weekend.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (26:59.672)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (27:10.232)
Mm-hmm.

Christina Braver (27:10.654)
And for that weekend with that she is with him, all she has to do is what he tells her to do. She doesn't have to make any decisions, so she can't make the wrong one. And he takes care of everything. And I said to my husband, was like, you know, somebody that comes in on the weekend and takes care of like everything, I might be willing to do some kinky shit for that guy. and not, know, and I don't really want that in my real life. mean, I like my agency. I like my rights. I like my voice.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (27:30.924)
Yeah, that's right.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (27:39.224)
Yeah.

Christina Braver (27:40.498)
but the fantasy of someone coming in and solving all my problems for 48 hours just kind of sounds magical sometimes. So, so what is that fantasy that, that women want as you, when you read a romance novel and the one, another popular fantasy that was also highlighted in 50 shades of gray is the bad boy redeemed, which again, not safe in real life. You have these women who meet this guy and he kind of

Stephanie Zwonitzer (28:01.89)
Mm-hmm.

Christina Braver (28:07.786)
is not a nice person and then through their love he becomes a nice person. It's not a great message. A lot of women want that to happen and I totally understand women are the heroes of that story. If it's fiction or in real life women get to be the heroes. Here's this person that was bad who chose to be good because of me and how wow what a great feeling that must be right but it it's very rare if a man

doesn't like women, he's probably not gonna change his mind about women because of a woman. that's just kind of, so it is a very popular fantasy that bad boy redeemed, but what is, why is that so popular? Like guys, I think some guys hear this story and they think, well, women only like people that treat them like shit. And it's like, well, no, not really. We don't really wanna be treated like shit. What we wanna do is be,

Stephanie Zwonitzer (28:39.031)
Right.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (29:00.802)
Right.

Christina Braver (29:03.486)
so lovable that this person becomes a better person for me. That's what we really want. We want to fix it. In the same way that guys, know, men want to fix things. That's what culture tells them. They have to be fixers. A lot of women, we want to be fixers. We want to be so loved and so lovable and so sexy and necessary that this person

Stephanie Zwonitzer (29:07.15)
Yeah, we want to fix it.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (29:13.634)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Christina Braver (29:29.07)
changes who they are and becomes a better person in the world in order to be worthy of me. Like, wow, that feels great. So how do I help my partner, if I'm a man, how do I help my partner have that feeling without me actually being an asshole? Like, how do I, you know, like I'm a good person, I do good things. I don't wanna become an asshole just so I can be sexier to her. What do I need to do? And maybe you go,

Stephanie Zwonitzer (29:34.146)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (29:44.672)
Mm-hmm. Right. Yes.

Christina Braver (29:59.746)
far enough to the point of role play. Maybe you set up a scene where you are the asshole and you do things or you tell her that you've done things, but you want to be different for her. You have this whole conversation. Maybe you do a role play. Maybe it just is as simple as being vulnerable and letting her know, you know, I want to be a better man. That line, movie line, I want to be a better man for you. I love you. I...

Stephanie Zwonitzer (30:25.068)
Yeah. Yep.

Christina Braver (30:29.79)
respect you, I want to be worthy of you, I'm so happy to be with you, I'm so proud to be with you, and I want to be the guy that's good enough for you. And so every day when I get up, I go to work, I do the things that I do, I come home, I want to be the guy. When I come home, I want to know that I deserve to be there with you because you're so great. You know, I mean, these are just words, and for the most part,

A lot of guys probably feel these things. They just aren't able to articulate them to their partner. I think, you know, that's so tragic. we can, know, a of guys are doing exactly what they need to do. This gentleman that came into your office with concerned about his penis size likely has a perfectly wonderful penis, fully capable of pleasing women, maybe more so than someone with a big dick, but he doesn't know that. That's not the message he's received. And he doesn't...

Stephanie Zwonitzer (31:04.268)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (31:16.141)
Mm-hmm.

Christina Braver (31:25.718)
know how to articulate and ask his partner for feedback about that. And if he did, our partners, they don't know how to articulate it either. Because as women, we're taught that we're not supposed to like it. We're not supposed to be sexually adventurous. We're not supposed to want it. We're not supposed to want it more than our male partners. A lot of those things, we're sort of shamed into being

Stephanie Zwonitzer (31:29.517)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (31:36.984)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (31:48.27)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Christina Braver (31:55.362)
That's dirty, that's slutty, that's all of those negative words. So there's so much messaging out there. I really want to try to change that messaging.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (31:58.21)
Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (32:09.078)
Yeah, yeah, that makes so much sense because I agree with you. And I think there's a lot of patients that come into my office for issues with performance anxiety. you know, women who I don't get wet enough. don't, know, like using lube is such a bad thing. No, it's not. It's great. Use it. You know, I think there so if they have these

Christina Braver (32:27.438)
Absolutely.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (32:30.53)
books and other things that normalize this. I think that's amazing. You're doing such a great service. Do you have any characters that are more closer to middle age, like perimenopause and kind of going into those later phases of life?

Christina Braver (32:47.69)
I don't have a full-size novel. I do have a short story that has an older couple. I hope to write a full-length story. The story just hasn't come to me yet. It might be a little bit too close to my real life, maybe. I don't know. But one of the things that I accented in that story, yes, is the use of lube. And her body doesn't...

Stephanie Zwonitzer (33:01.451)
Okay.

Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (33:14.072)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Christina Braver (33:16.942)
She's not 25 anymore. know, her boobs are not where they used to be. you know, and he's, he's such a sweet, you know, he's in a way, he's just kind of happy to be there. Like he's happy to be, I that he's like in his early sixties. He's just happy to be able to, he's healthy. So he's still able to get it up without, without taking a pill. Although there's nothing wrong with needing that. Absolutely. In the same way that a lot of women

Stephanie Zwonitzer (33:18.86)
Yep. Yep.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (33:41.454)
correct?

Christina Braver (33:46.486)
need vibrators, you know, certainly as we get older, using a vibrator is a little bit more of a reliable source. So I do have an older couple and they do use lube and they do use vibrator. Actually all my couples use vibrators, but it doesn't matter. That's an ageless tool. I read somewhere someone said, you know, that people feel, I'm getting addicted to my vibrator. It's like.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (33:48.088)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (33:53.838)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (34:01.11)
Yeah. Right, absolutely.

Christina Braver (34:13.186)
Well, let's think about that. I read a comparison and author said, would anyone accuse a carpenter of being addicted to a drill because he chooses that every time instead of using a screwdriver? Would we say the carpenter's addicted to the drill or is the carpenter just using the tool that gets the job done better? So it's difficult. So I struggle a little bit with that addiction to vibrator. Maybe what you're addicted to is the

since having an orgasm. That might be what you're addicted to. You're not addicted to your vibrator. Don't blame the messenger.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (34:41.772)
Right, yeah, yeah. And there is some, right, there is some truth to using a vibrator and then having difficulty when you don't use a vibrator because you get used to those increased sensations and vibrations that none of our fingers can, or tongues can replicate, right?

Christina Braver (35:02.798)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (35:02.988)
But that doesn't necessarily mean you're addicted. Again, that's just the tool that for you works really well. And I think that that's a beautiful thing. And I think that it is so important that we get the message out there that using these other tools, they don't even necessarily need to be toys. They're just tools, in my opinion, to have better sex, to get better orgasms, which at the end of the day,

That's what we want. We want to feel good. We want the best orgasms we can get.

Christina Braver (35:33.989)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Exactly. you know, one of the things that I think in that book that Kenneth Play wrote called Beyond Satisfied, that one of the things he talks about is that it really doesn't matter what size I am because I can get a toy, I can get a tool that is whatever size she wants. And I'm with her when...

We're using it together. I'm the one that's inserting it. I'm the one that's there really normalizes that it doesn't matter what size I am because I can always find if she prefers a larger size, I can find a tool that's exactly the size she wants. And I try to emphasize that using tools together, using toys together is not a replacement. want, I once had an older gentleman, you know, ask me about, well, do you know, do you think that toys are a replacement for men in a bedroom?

And I said, look, if you can be replaced by a toy, you need to take a look at what you're doing in the bedroom. Because like, if that's all you're bringing to the table, you're missing the point a little bit. So let's rewind and think about what is your role. A toy can't hold her. A toy can't tell her she's beautiful. A toy can't kiss her, touch her, stroke her skin. A toy can't...

Stephanie Zwonitzer (36:27.448)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (36:38.146)
Mm-hmm.

Christina Braver (36:44.82)
enjoy pleasure because of her. Like a toy can't receive that joy and pleasure from her. Like there's a lot that you can bring to the table that only you, or bring to the bed, that only you as her partner can bring. This is just a thing over here.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (37:02.54)
Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, well, and it's interesting because I, in my urology world, I have a lot of older gentlemen who have had various health issues, prostate cancer, other things where they really, really struggle to get erections. And maybe they can't take Viagra and Cialis because they have heart conditions or they're allergic to it or whatever. Maybe they aren't at a point where they can go through the surgery for a penile prosthesis, whatever it is. And when I have these men come in,

and they are willing to talk to me about other tools to be able to satisfy their wife. Penis sleeves, extenders. I even have one guy who actually went and bought a strap on and we talked about what to look for in a high quality one and all these things because they want that intimacy. They don't want to be replaced by something else. They want to use themselves in a way that can continue to please their partner and it makes me

so excited for them when they can come in and talk to me about this and we brainstorm and we figure out ways for them to still have that intimacy because it's a huge blow not only to their ego but to their relationship when they can't get erections. know women have it a little easier we can throw some lube on there and still function but men's body part in and of itself

has to function correctly to have quality penetration. Not necessarily to achieve orgasm or things like that. There's other things you can do with a more flaccid penis, but for penetration, which for a lot of people is very important. And so I love when I can have these conversations and kind of normalize that. And so I love that that's what your books do too, is kind of take these more taboo topics or these really stressful and hurtful situations in these relationships and kind of normalize it and say, look,

Christina Braver (38:26.51)
Mm-hmm.

Christina Braver (38:54.606)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (38:54.64)
You're not the only one. We have a lot of people that deal with this.

Christina Braver (38:57.92)
Mm-hmm. You know, I think back, we feel like our breast size is very important for whether or not we're sexy. And we can get breast implants if we feel like we need that. I'm not necessarily advising for that. You do you. But a lot of times women, they can augment their body if they feel like they have to. Penile augmentation is not...

Stephanie Zwonitzer (39:07.79)
Yeah.

Christina Braver (39:24.75)
It's not as easy and it's not as successful and it's not, you know, so then I sort of put myself in the position of a man. So I have this body part that defines me in a lot of ways. I'm supposed to be tough. Do I have the balls to do this work? Man up, you know, and get quit. When someone's aggressive, we tell them that they're swinging their dick around. Put your dick away, man. You know, so this body part that is defines a lot of masculinity.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (39:49.059)
Yep.

Christina Braver (39:54.254)
Um, something that men compare with other men. I think research tells us that for every one time a woman Googles dick size, 170 men Google dick size. Like men are concerned about this, right? And so now, and so now I'm a young man, I figured it out and now I'm getting older and it doesn't work anymore. This thing that has defined me is letting me down.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (40:06.22)
goodness

Stephanie Zwonitzer (40:11.948)
Yep.

Christina Braver (40:24.032)
and is not doing what I want it to do anymore. And I think women, can relate to that a little bit with menopause and our bodies and the hormone fluctuations that we have. When I went through menopause, I just really remember feeling like my body is letting me down. And I went through the time of didn't want to have sex with my partner. And my poor partner feeling rejected, thinking it was him, because we didn't have the information, we didn't understand.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (40:30.701)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (40:40.184)
Mm-hmm.

Christina Braver (40:53.538)
what I was going through was largely hormonal and related to being, going through menopause. didn't know that, I didn't know that depression and anxiety and even to the point of suicidal ideation comes a lot with menopause, but that's actually pretty common. I did not know that. We don't know that. We're not putting that out in the world and we need to. And you know, in this low sex drive. And so my husband, he, sometimes people, your husband is so great. He is great. He went out and read books about

Stephanie Zwonitzer (40:53.548)
Right.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (41:05.25)
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Christina Braver (41:21.972)
He was the one that went out and said, okay, what's going on with my wife that she doesn't want to have sex with me. And he's the one that brought a lot of information that then got me to talk to my naturopath that got me to, and people are like, your husband is so great. I'm like, he is great, but let's be clear. He wanted to have sex. So he was gonna, he was going to figure out how to make that happen or bus trying. So, you know, and he's a scientist, so research, you know, this is what he does. So,

Stephanie Zwonitzer (41:32.866)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (41:39.094)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (41:44.77)
Nice.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (41:49.016)
Yeah.

Christina Braver (41:51.598)
I went through a lot of that and so I can identify with that idea that my body is no longer doing what I want it to do. I'm no longer young, virile, sexy, beautiful. I'm not those things anymore because my body is not doing what I want it to do. And I imagine men feel very similar things when they start to get older. And I think we can be sensitive to that. And it is great when men are able to sort of move past that shame that is external, that comes from external teaching.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (42:18.678)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Christina Braver (42:21.326)
and really identify with the person that they are and the value that they bring to the relationship and recognize that while penetration with your body is important, don't want to diminish that, excuse me, I don't want to diminish that, but it isn't the only thing and it isn't the most important thing. And there are ways to make that possible and better. just, man, God bless them.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (42:46.072)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yes, no, I have a soft spot for them too, for many of the same reasons. This is just such a fun conversation and I just appreciate your work so much and your knowledge too. I don't have a lot of author friends in my life and so it's really cool for me to experience your knowledge level on this that you're not just rolling out these books without thought, that there's truly the knowledge and the thought behind it and you're so conscious of that.

Christina Braver (43:00.568)
Thank you.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (43:18.07)
It's amazing. Christina, thank you so much for being here. Please tell everybody how they can find your books and be in touch with you.

Christina Braver (43:19.896)
Thank you.

Christina Braver (43:25.294)
The best way to be in touch with me and to find information about my books and what I do is on my website Which is Christina braver comm which Christina spelled with a ch I have a resources tab where I list some of my favorite sexual health reads so and there's a lot of them there And they're not even all that I've read they're just the ones that I really like and it could be overwhelming But there's a lot of great resources there

So I encourage people to go to my resources tab. I also have a blog tab where I kind of just write some short things. have blog posts about how bigger is not better, how to have a holiday quickie, just a lot of different things and observations there that are a little bit easier, quicker to read, just some short snippets. And then there's information there about my books. My romance novels are there too. And then I'm available on all the web, all the...

Platforms, Amazon, Kobo, Barnes & Noble, you can get my books there.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (44:26.58)
Excellent. I don't know about the rest of the listeners, but I am definitely going to run and find me some Christina Braver books because they sound amazing and I'm excited to do that and we will certainly put your website in the show notes as well so everyone can find you and read your books as well. Thank you again for being here. I really appreciate it.

Christina Braver (44:45.08)
Thank you for having me. I love to talk about this stuff and I hope that your listeners, I really hope that we've spoken to at least some of your listeners today and that there's some men out there that will feel confident and go and explore and learn a little bit and know that they are necessary and loved just the way that they are and bring some of that confidence into the bedroom for their partner, for the betterment of the world. Let's save the world.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (44:52.856)
Yes.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (45:08.204)
Yes, yes, I love it. I love it. Thank you so much. All right, everybody. As always, I appreciate you listening and go have some fun between the sheets.