She Was in a Sexless Marriage for 26 Years — Here's How She Fixed It | ft. Xanet Pailet

At 50, after 26 years in a sexless marriage, Xanet Pailet found herself single, living in New York City, and facing an uncomfortable truth: she had never enjoyed sex. Not once. Her imaginary dating profile read: "Smart, successful, cute — I just really hate sex."

That was the wake-up call that changed everything.

In this episode of Between the Sheets with Dr. Z, Dr. Stephanie Zwonitzer, DNP sits down with Xanet Pailet — bestselling author of Living an Orgasmic Life and the brand new Sex and Intimacy Repair Kit, and founder of Passionate Intimacy Retreats — for one of the most candid, practical, and genuinely hopeful conversations this podcast has ever had. Xanet has now led over 100 couples retreats, holds certifications in Somatica sex and intimacy training and somatic trauma work, and yes — she enjoys sex now. (She mentioned it was Saturday morning. We love that for her.)

What you'll learn in this episode:

• Why sexless marriages often have nothing to do with not loving your partner — and everything to do with unhealed childhood wounds and sexual shame
• What tantra actually is, why it's one of the most powerful tools for couples who feel disconnected, and how breathwork alone can begin to rebuild intimacy
• Why you cannot experience pleasure when your nervous system is in fight-or-flight — and how to change that
• The erotic blueprints framework and why your blueprint shifts over time (what worked at 30 won't necessarily work at 45)
• The concept of core desires — the emotions underneath your fantasies — and why getting those met makes sex dramatically hotter and more consistent
• Why faking orgasms is a trap, how women end up in it, and how to get out without blowing up your relationship
• How to start the sexless marriage conversation with your partner without opening a bomb
• What four days at an intimacy retreat actually looks like — and why Xanet insists on being in the room with couples in person

Take Xanet's free intimacy style quiz at howtoimprovemylovelife.com. Find her books Living an Orgasmic Life and The Sex and Intimacy Repair Kit on Amazon and Barnes & Noble. Learn about retreats at passionateintimacyretreats.com.

📅 Hormonal changes, pain with sex, or low desire making intimacy harder? Let's address the physical side. Book a consult at reviveish.com

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Episode is sponsored by Boston Scientific and EDCure. For more information click here:
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Transcript

Stephanie Zwonitzer (00:00.839)
Hey guys, welcome back to Between the Sheets. We have...

full guest with us today. Jeannette Pellet is a nationally recognized sex and intimacy coach. She is a best-selling author of the book Living an Orgasmic Life and the Sex and Intimacy Repair Kit. She is the founder of Passionate Intimacy Retreats where she has led over a hundred couples of intimacy retreats. She has left a 26-year sexless marriage and a high-powered legal career and is now committed to couples who feel stuck, disconnected, or in conflict.

to transform their relationships into ones filled with intimacy, safety, passion, and joy. She has private and international group retreats. She shows couples how to create emotional and sexual connection that lasts. So welcome, Janaye. It is such a pleasure to have you here. I'm excited to chat with you today.

Xanet Pailet (00:53.922)
Thank you, Stephanie. I'm excited to be here as well.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (00:57.305)
Yeah so I guess your story started with your own marriage so give us a little background tell us how you kind of found this field and this calling.

Xanet Pailet (01:06.062)
Yeah, so I, as you said, I was in a sexless marriage for almost three decades, 26 years, which is a very long time to be in any marriage, let alone a sexless one.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (01:17.477)
That's a very long time.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (01:22.947)
Yeah.

Xanet Pailet (01:26.894)
And to be fair to my ex-husband, a lot of the issues around our sexless marriage had a lot to do with my own shame trauma that happened as a child and then some medical trauma that happened. sex until I reached my 50s just never felt good. It was painful, uncomfortable. I never had an orgasm, no pleasure. It just was like, why do this?

Stephanie Zwonitzer (01:52.613)
Yeah, right, right! Why do something that doesn't bring you pleasure?

Xanet Pailet (01:57.199)
You

could do lots of other things in my time. So I think that's really the genesis of why the marriage was sexless. But what happened, which is what always happens, is when you don't have that emotional connection, the emotional intimacy, that we really didn't have a very good, solid relationship around, which I recognize now, there was no way to really process it. There was no way to get help. There was no way to talk

Stephanie Zwonitzer (02:21.69)
Mm-hmm. True.

Xanet Pailet (02:28.432)
about it and then, you know, just as our sexual intimacy was never great, our emotional intimacy got worse and worse and worse. But we stayed in the marriage because we were raising two children and we were kind of running a family business on the side. So, you know, like it was very practical.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (02:43.184)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (02:47.278)
Right, right, easier to stay married than get divorced. Yes. Yes.

Xanet Pailet (02:48.334)
It's easier to stay married than get divorced, right? Maybe not the best perfect decision in retrospect, but it made sense at the time. But when I turned 50 and my kids were both in college and we had made the decision to separate, I knew that I wanted to date men. And I also was like, I don't know, I'm living in New York City.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (02:55.258)
Mm-hmm.

Xanet Pailet (03:18.318)
I couldn't imagine what that online dating profile would look like. I'm smart, I'm successful, I'm cute, I have a good body. It's just one thing, I really hate sex. What can we do about that?

Stephanie Zwonitzer (03:23.556)
Yeah. Right.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (03:29.21)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (03:33.786)
Right? Right!

Xanet Pailet (03:37.022)
So that was sort of the wake up call in part. That was really the wake up call for me to say, okay, this is something I've really got to look into, like what's actually happening. And that became the, that's what actually started the whole process. I found my way in through the door of tantra and sacred sexuality. It just kind of like fell in my lap, so to speak. And it was life changing. It was like, oh, wow.

There's there's a whole different way to have sex There's a whole different way about what sex actually means and how to feel about it and how to be treated around it Which just was just shocked me to be honest with you and that was like the first inkling of like yeah There's something else here. You know, you're not broken because you know anybody who's has Trauma or has been in a sexless marriage even if they can quote have sex, but they're still in a sexless

marriage, they feel broken, right? They feel not desired. They feel like there's something that they're doing wrong, that they're not curious enough, that there's something wrong with them. And it was the first time I was like, okay, maybe I'm not broken. Maybe this is going to be okay at the end of the day. And that became my calling card. It became the opening to like, this is great. I'm learning a lot. I'm going

Stephanie Zwonitzer (04:37.776)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (04:43.525)
Yep.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (04:51.854)
Yeah.

Xanet Pailet (05:05.776)
to leave New York, move to California, you know, where all the sexuality teachers are and programs and I'm going to learn about this. And like, my God, I'm actually going to start teaching it. OK. You know, and one thing led to another. And then I was like, OK, Tantra is amazing. And I think it's incredibly powerful. But I can see there's so many more aspects of sexuality that I don't know and I don't understand. And I'm a lawyer. So I need to learn it all.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (05:20.239)
Yeah.

Xanet Pailet (05:35.648)
And so that just led from one program to the next, to the next, to the next, to the next. And I did a series of trainings. think the most fundamental, the two most fundamental ones that I did was a Somatica Sex and Intimacy training, which is run by the amazing Celeste Hirschman and Danielle Horel. I was in their very first class. I think they're now up to like, I don't know, they've been doing this for 15 years. And that was profound. And it worked beautifully.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (05:48.71)
Mm-hmm.

Xanet Pailet (06:05.551)
with the concept of tantra because it was very somatic and experiential based, but it also gave me more of the psychological foundation of the early childhood wounds and all of the reasons that sexuality becomes really challenging for people. And then a couple of years ago, I completed a somatic experiencing three-year training program from a certified trauma practitioner as well, because when you start working with sex, guess what?

Stephanie Zwonitzer (06:08.901)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (06:32.654)
Yeah, lots of trauma. Lots of trauma.

Xanet Pailet (06:33.825)
Traumas there, of trauma, lots of trauma, right, exactly. that was, that, you know, that was, that's my journey. a bunch of other things in between in terms of trainings, but that's really the journey of how I got to where I am now.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (06:50.36)
And do you enjoy sex now? Okay.

Xanet Pailet (06:53.057)
Yeah, what time is it? I think it's Saturday morning and I just had some good sex.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (07:01.344)
We love that! Yes, that's awesome. Talk to me more about Tantra. What kind of concepts does that teach? How does that help you kind of reconnect with yourself and your partner?

Xanet Pailet (07:04.725)
Yes, for sure.

Xanet Pailet (07:09.805)
Mmm.

Xanet Pailet (07:13.741)
So I think that for me, what was really powerful about Tantra, which is, you know, its own energetic practice, if you will. And obviously there's just a long.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (07:24.016)
Mm-hmm.

Xanet Pailet (07:27.435)
a history around it, I'm not gonna go into. But it really focuses on breath and sound and movement to be able to move the sexual energy around your body and even to be able to find sexual energy in your body as well. And I think it can be for many couples and individuals a very powerful practice, especially if genital touch, genital contact is challenging, if sex feels scary, if they're innocent,

a sexless marriage, you can come into sexuality in sort of a softer, kinder way if you can access the energy, which not everybody can. I mean, we all have the ability to access energy in our body. And some people it comes really naturally like it did to me at some level. And some people they're just like, I don't feel a thing. But what it does is it really helps to co-regulate two different nervous systems.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (08:11.29)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (08:20.314)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (08:26.65)
Okay.

Xanet Pailet (08:27.215)
because when you're simultaneously breathing with your partner, like this is what our nervous systems want. They want to co-regulate with each other. And we can regulate up, and we can regulate down. And Contra's about regulating down to the rest and digest, the relaxed state. And it creates a lot of connection, right? When you're just like holding your partner and you're breathing together for five minutes, right? And your energy starts

Stephanie Zwonitzer (08:35.482)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (08:39.342)
Yeah. Yeah.

Xanet Pailet (08:57.135)
to come together, it has a sensation that...

Stephanie Zwonitzer (09:00.536)
Mm-hmm.

Xanet Pailet (09:04.493)
you don't have in a lot of other spaces, I would say. So it can be a very calming, grounding. It can also be very erotic if you're really trained in it and you start, the faster you breathe, the more intense sexual energy bring. You can run energy through your body so that you're having non-ejaculatory, for both women and men, orgasms, like energetic orgasms. So it can also be very erotic.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (09:13.422)
Mm-hmm.

Xanet Pailet (09:34.447)
but I use it a lot in my work with couples to help them like ground and to reconnect and to notice what does it feel like when your nervous systems are actually attuned to each other because so many people come in with like such high levels of misattunement.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (09:40.912)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (09:51.717)
Yeah, absolutely. And it's one of those things too. Our body can't experience pleasure when we're in flight or fight. When our sympathetic is taking over, we can't get those orgasms. We can't relax to enjoy it. And so you really, like you're saying, you have to down regulate and get to that parasympathetic system to truly be able to enjoy. And how many of us live our lives in fight or flight every day? And no tigers are chasing us.

Xanet Pailet (10:03.704)
Totally.

Xanet Pailet (10:16.087)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Only in our mind, in our body.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (10:24.142)
That's right. Yeah, so I love that. So you can learn to do tantra yourself to help regulate yourself, but then you can also do it with your partner to kind of grow that connection and regulate together. That's amazing. I love that.

Xanet Pailet (10:31.948)
You can.

Xanet Pailet (10:37.389)
Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, it can be solo tantra or traditionally, I mean, yes, a lot of solo tantra exists, but traditionally it's a couple of tantra where you're circulating the energy together. So it's a very powerful practice. And I always incorporate little bits and pieces of it in the work that I do because it is one of the best ways to help people down-regulate. Yes. Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (10:46.725)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (10:51.482)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (11:02.008)
Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. I know and there are times too where I like this concept because for example last night I got home, it was late, I had a thing to do after work and so it was a long day and I got home and I wanted intimacy but I was not ready for putting energy into sex and we had a great cuddle session while we were talking just holding each other and to me in that moment that was the type of intimacy I needed. Now today I'm sure I will want a different

Xanet Pailet (11:20.141)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (11:31.895)
type of intimacy. But it's nice to have that like flow and options. And I think that's really one thing that Tantra brings is, especially in like you said, in a sexless relationship, when you're trying to get back together.

Xanet Pailet (11:32.867)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (11:46.279)
putting in time for physical sex and penetration is not always where to begin because like you said pain or trauma or other things where we need to rebuild that intimacy first and then maybe we can get to the actual penetrative sex or more sex regardless of how you're doing it oral or whatever.

Xanet Pailet (11:52.352)
now.

Xanet Pailet (12:05.612)
Yeah, definitely. And I love that experience that you had, right? Because, you know, really, I think my philosophy is, and this is what my sex and intimacy repair kit is based on, and really my work with couples is based on.

that you have to actually create that emotional connection and that emotional intimacy, right, in order to be able to allow sexual intimacy to develop and flow. And so that cuddling, that holding each other, that just talking with each other, right, begins to start to that, you know, if you're doing some tantra and breathing together, like that starts to create some more of that emotional safety together, because at least your nervous systems are in the same place, right?

Stephanie Zwonitzer (12:44.047)
Mm-hmm.

Xanet Pailet (12:49.806)
you're not in a fight and flight space, but yes, absolutely, 100 % agree with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (12:53.934)
Yeah, that's amazing. I love that. I love that. Tell me about your first book that you wrote.

Xanet Pailet (12:59.82)
Living an Orgasmic Life. So Living an Orgasmic Life came out in 2018 and that book is really primarily geared towards women. So, and it's really about what blocks us from feeling pleasure in our body, all of the things, the childhood wounds, the trauma, all of it. And then what we can do to change that.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (13:01.518)
Yes.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (13:12.581)
Okay.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (13:23.704)
Yeah.

Xanet Pailet (13:29.774)
was also very much my own personal journey of sexual awakening, sexual healing, which I, you know, thread throughout that book, as well as case studies from the clients I had worked with. And it's a really powerful book for women. I was shocked when it came out how many people just emailed me and told me, like, reading that book changed my life. I'm like, wow, okay. And because I think at the time, you know, this was 2018, right? So what was that, eight years ago?

Stephanie Zwonitzer (13:38.374)
Mm-hmm.

Xanet Pailet (13:59.647)
People weren't really talking about this as much and there weren't as many women that were coming forward and saying, I lived in a sexless marriage for 26 years and at the age of 50, I was able to actually turn things around. So I think people found it very relatable. It also has a lot of information about tantra because that was my doorway to sexuality and I really wanted people to understand more about the practices and the possibilities.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (14:03.065)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (14:08.421)
Right.

Xanet Pailet (14:29.75)
around that. So that's my Living an Orgasmic Life book. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (14:33.786)
That's amazing. And I love that you were able to bring your own personal story in because I think when we share our personal stories, it really helps connect with other people that they're not alone. Like you said earlier, they're not broken. There are a lot of people in sexless or not great sex marriages. And yes, yes. And a lot of people, you know, you get yourself into that because you're early, maybe in dating or early in marriage, whatever. And you say,

Xanet Pailet (14:45.664)
Right.

Xanet Pailet (14:52.01)
Yes, a lot of not great sex marriages, Stephanie.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (15:03.75)
that felt really good or you pretend you had an orgasm whatever and then you just get into this habit of doing it every time and if you just were honest from the start you would have better sex but it's really hard then after a couple of years to be like hey what you're doing actually doesn't work and I've been faking it this whole time

Xanet Pailet (15:14.56)
Yes, yes, yes.

Xanet Pailet (15:22.452)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had a client that was dealing with that and it was very, hard for her to actually admit to her partner what was actually happening. took a lot of work to do that. And yes, that is the, you know, that's the trap that a lot of women.

get stuck in for so many different reasons, like they don't like how they're being touched, big piece of it, right? They don't know what they want, also another big piece around it, and as well as just, know, they don't really know what good sex is.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (15:54.992)
Yeah.

Xanet Pailet (15:55.213)
And so that's part of our jobs, right? To educate people about what good sex actually is like and that everybody is, you know, able to experience pleasure. And a lot of women get stuck in that orgasm gap, right? It's super challenging. And a lot of women have shame because, you know, and of course there's all the myths, right? We talk about all the myths, like the blueprints, like all of the garbage that we learned as children in society about like everybody's supposed to have orgasm simultaneously.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (15:57.98)
Yep.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (16:09.178)
Yep.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (16:15.012)
Yes. Yeah.

Xanet Pailet (16:25.166)
like and you know, a man goes down on you in two minutes, you've orgasm like, who does that happen to?

Stephanie Zwonitzer (16:29.166)
Right. Right. Yeah, or that you're in there doing the dishes and he touches you once and you're like, all right, let's have sex. Like that's not, we, we, most women have responsive desire. It takes a little bit to get us going. You need to connect with us to get us going. You can't just snap your fingers and we come. Right. Yup.

Xanet Pailet (16:37.396)
I'm ready to go. Exactly.

Right.

Xanet Pailet (16:47.784)
Exactly.

I know, which is different than men, right? So you get, I understand why they think that, you know, at some level, like, can I use whatever word on this show? You know, I touch your penis, you get hard, you touch my clit, I slap your hand, right? Right? But that's the, and I think men are super confused about that, because they haven't been well-educated, right? None of us have been well-educated, especially in my generation.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (17:00.237)
Absolutely.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (17:05.624)
Yeah. Yes!

Stephanie Zwonitzer (17:14.82)
Right. Yeah.

Absolutely. And you know, it's also interesting that then there's shame on the other side of it too for women who desire sex all the time have a very high drive, then they feel shame because that's not what I'm supposed to do, that's supposed to be the man. Well, no, honey, if you want to go get it. Like that's, are, we are very sexual beings. It's very normal for women to be just as horny as men.

Xanet Pailet (17:20.416)
whatnot.

Xanet Pailet (17:26.464)
Yes, right.

Xanet Pailet (17:39.916)
Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, many of my couples, the women is the higher desire and the man is the lower desire, right? So that's, you know, a flip, but yeah, absolutely. And there's all the slut shaming that goes on as well, right? If you're not married and you're single and you just want to like have sex with a lot of different people, right? There's all of that. So yeah, it's hard. It's hard to, you know, be able to some for some people, for many people to feel good about your sexuality, to feel free about your sexuality.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (17:46.029)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (17:52.164)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (17:59.068)
Yep.

Xanet Pailet (18:10.029)
and not have some experience around shame or regret or grief or sadness or whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (18:14.66)
Yep. Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree. And then you've written a second book as well.

Xanet Pailet (18:20.779)
Yeah, so the second book is coming out, maybe, don't know when this is airing, March 26th, and it's called The Sex and Intimacy Repair Kit. And that book is really based on the work that I've been doing for the last seven years, which is with couples, primarily, who are in sexless marriages or who are experiencing very severe intimacy issues, and a lot of them are at the verge of separation.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (18:26.936)
Okay?

Stephanie Zwonitzer (18:38.054)
Mm-hmm.

Xanet Pailet (18:50.733)
And that book hopefully will be a bestseller too. I don't know. So y'all, y'all go buy this book.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (18:55.462)
You got that listeners? Go buy this book.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (19:03.31)
Yes, that's fantastic.

Xanet Pailet (19:05.515)
Yeah, and the premise of that book is that in order to be able to kind of what I said at the beginning, in order to really be able to express yourself fully sexually and really move into a very, you know, beautiful sexual long term passionate relationship, you need to actually make sure that there's emotional intimacy and emotional safety there. And so a good portion, and this is so true for women, especially for women. So a good portion of the book is

Excuse me, really about what does emotional safety mean? How do you achieve it? Different all sorts of different tools and skills to be able to, you know, deal with vulnerability and listening empathetically. And I teach people how to repair and understand how your childhood wounds show up, trigger each other, all of that stuff. And then how to be able to sort that out. And then I wrote it in a way in which I drop people into a coaching session. So it's very dialog.

driven, not so didactic, because I was like, yeah, I think this would be a more interesting approach. And so we'll see.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (20:12.62)
yeah and like we said stories resonate they they help people yeah

Xanet Pailet (20:15.443)
and stories resonate, right? People are like, yeah, I can relate to that couple. And that experience. And then we focus on like three aspects of sexuality that I think are, you you could write 10 books on it, right? But like three aspects, I'm like, okay, what are the three most important things I think couples need to know, which is like, we have to redefine what sex is.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (20:19.584)
Mm-hmm. Yes, absolutely, absolutely.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (20:30.022)
Yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (20:39.716)
Mm-hmm.

Xanet Pailet (20:40.459)
We have to understand that we have different sexual styles and I work off of Jaya's erotic blueprints, right? Looking at the different sexual styles, which I think is so important for couples because it gives them a lexicon, it gives them a language, it gives them like, I get it. Now I understand she's sensual and I'm sexual. Now I get, you know, whatever is happening, right? And then how to integrate it. And then really looking at core desires, which are Jack, some Jack Moore,

Stephanie Zwonitzer (21:02.362)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (21:08.176)
Mm-hmm.

Xanet Pailet (21:10.413)
and Celeste and Danielle is really looking at what are the emotions that we want to have around sex coming from our fantasies and peak sexual experiences. So, yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (21:21.848)
Yeah, that's amazing. For the blueprints that she was referring to, we do have a couple episodes in the past that you guys can listen to that we've talked about that. But it's basically like the five love languages that most people are familiar with from Gary Chapman. This is five basically types of blueprints of how you experience sex and sexuality. so it's helped me go through them. It's sensual.

Xanet Pailet (21:24.971)
Yeah.

Xanet Pailet (21:45.419)
It's sensual, energetic, sexual, kinky, and shapeshifter.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (21:51.663)
Yes, and the shapeshifter kind of goes between all of the different ones. So it really does help. There's quizzes and stuff you can take, and it helps you figure out your own blueprint and your partner's blueprint, which gives you talking points that you can then be like, okay, well, you like this, but that's not really my forte. So what could we do in between there that would help you, but I would be comfortable with and vice versa. And it really helps. think, I think it really helps men understand their partner better. I think

Xanet Pailet (21:54.398)
All the different ones, right?

Xanet Pailet (22:04.863)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (22:21.676)
you know women were a little bit more obviously this is very generic terms women tend to be more emotionally intelligent so we can pick up on what they need better and most men are going to be more sexually based to start with but for the male partner to learn his female's language that can really help because he can learn how to actually get her aroused again most women are responsive arousal and so you know those tools

Xanet Pailet (22:46.741)
Bye. Bye.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (22:51.496)
are so important especially if like you guys do like it when you have sex together but like you're not on the same page most days or you know what he does to tell you he's in the mood doesn't work for you what she does you don't even realize is her trying to be flirty with you I think it really gives a lot of good talking points

Xanet Pailet (23:06.633)
Right.

Xanet Pailet (23:10.015)
I think it does as well. My one caveat I tell all of my couples because, you know, have them all take the blueprint quiz and then we come and do a four day retreat. You don't know what you don't know. Like I would say a lot of times, you know, people will be low, particularly women on the kinky scale.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (23:16.677)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (23:22.159)
Yep.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (23:28.987)
Mm-hmm.

Xanet Pailet (23:29.835)
And sometimes men will be low on the sensual scale, but then we actually like start to explore all the four different blueprints, things really start shifting. So I love it, you know, and it's a tool that I definitely use. And I also would say like, and it may not be correct because you haven't had the experience or you have a misdefinition in your mind when you were taking that task, you know, about what kinky is in particular.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (23:32.698)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (23:52.325)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (23:59.259)
Right. And it changes over time. What my blueprint was when my kids were toddlers is very different than what my blueprint is now that they're in college.

Xanet Pailet (23:59.789)
I think that that's the one that I find a lot of And it changes over time, right?

Right. Mm-hmm. Definitely.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (24:09.09)
So you know and just my own phase of life being perimenopause versus postpartum versus young kid you know like my own hormones and my own personal journey. So it's definitely something that yes this is what you are in this moment but maybe as you evolve and as you're actually having these conversations six months from now a year from now take the quiz again because you may like you're saying you don't know what you don't know you may evolve and all of a sudden something else bam that gets you in the mood.

Xanet Pailet (24:29.374)
Yeah, yeah.

Xanet Pailet (24:37.156)
It's not unlike the love languages, right? That also shifts over time where you are in the relationship, what needs are being met, what needs aren't being met quite as well, right? So I think that's true. It definitely evolves over time. But I think the piece that I really want to talk about is the core desires piece. Because I think that's something that people don't understand very well and is a really important part of

Stephanie Zwonitzer (24:38.725)
Yep.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (24:48.964)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (24:54.81)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (24:59.407)
Yeah.

Xanet Pailet (25:05.29)
having great sax. And I think the blueprints work along with it,

Stephanie Zwonitzer (25:06.79)
Mm-hmm.

Xanet Pailet (25:12.464)
it's really looking underneath those blueprints and then in other ways as to like, what are the emotions that you want to have around sex, right? Because if you're somebody who wants to be ravaged, let's say, because that makes you feel desirable, because that's one of your core desires, it's like I wanna be desired because maybe I grew up in a household where I didn't feel that way, where I wasn't important, right?

Stephanie Zwonitzer (25:21.84)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (25:27.683)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (25:39.952)
Yeah.

Xanet Pailet (25:42.301)
to our core childhood wounds, but your partner is just making sweet, sensual, you know, love to you. It may feel good, you might have an orgasm, but it's not really getting to that like, you know, that really deep desire that's fulfilling that part of you. And I don't think that it's talked about quite enough. And I think it's important for everybody to understand that like,

Stephanie Zwonitzer (25:53.657)
No.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (26:01.21)
Mm-hmm

Stephanie Zwonitzer (26:08.197)
Mm-hmm.

Xanet Pailet (26:12.204)
That's what we really, that's another really critical piece of looking at like, how do I want to feel? Not physically, but emotionally when I'm having sex with my partner, because when that emotional need is met, sex becomes so much more hot and desirable, right? Like if that emotion is met over and over, you're gonna wanna keep on having it, right? So it's an important piece.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (26:19.749)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (26:31.438)
Yeah, sure.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (26:38.318)
Yeah. So what are those cores that you're referring to?

Xanet Pailet (26:43.594)
So core desires are the feelings that you want to have. And, you know, when we do this core desire exercise, there's like 35 different types of feelings, but here's what's important to know, right?

Stephanie Zwonitzer (26:52.559)
Okay.

Xanet Pailet (26:57.746)
A couple of things. First of all, these arise from our childhood wounds. is actually that's why they're so powerful. It's a way to actually soothe our childhood wounds. Right. And we do it through it happens. And you can identify these through a variety of different ways.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (27:09.318)
Mm-hmm.

Xanet Pailet (27:16.304)
but you can look at what we call different types of movies, a spiritual movie, a romantic movie, a kinky movie, like more kind of along the sexual styles of Jaya, but looking at the feelings, but really like it arrives from these childhood wounds. so in our fantasy, so we identify them from like our most common fantasies, which I find a lot of women don't have or are aware of that they're having, that's a fantasy.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (27:41.008)
Yeah. Right.

Xanet Pailet (27:46.141)
or something that's never happened, but man, if that happened, that would be so hot and that might be derived from erotica or some other thing that you've created in your mind, but you haven't really fantasized about. But it does one of two things. It either repairs what happened in your childhood or it's repetition with agency. So for example, if you were

Stephanie Zwonitzer (28:08.72)
Mm-hmm.

Xanet Pailet (28:17.106)
If you were a child that well, like me, if you were a child that had to be like super independent, right. And, you know, take care of your mom and be the emotional support for everybody. And none of your needs felt your emotional needs were met. Right. And then you create your own business and you're the CEO. All this other stuff. Right. My core desire is total surrender. Hard. It's hard for me. So hard for me. Right. But but when I can get to the place where I can totally

Stephanie Zwonitzer (28:40.55)
Mm-hmm.

Xanet Pailet (28:47.03)
surrender to my partner in a very submissive way. It's amazing. And I desire that all the time. That's meeting one of my emotional core desires. I've got other ones too. I like exposure as well. I people to watch me because I felt very like stifled as a child and I felt like I was teased a lot. Right. So there's something about that that I think is repetition with agency. Right. That's not the repair.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (28:54.406)
you

Stephanie Zwonitzer (29:00.324)
Yeah. Okay.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (29:14.562)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Xanet Pailet (29:16.95)
a repetition with agency. And a repetition with agency could be if you were a child that was very constrained by your parents and held very closely on a leash. It might be a hot thing for your partner to call you and walk you around on a leash, right? But you're doing it with agency, with with consent. And again, very reparative. And so that's why it gets

Stephanie Zwonitzer (29:41.402)
Yes.

Xanet Pailet (29:46.91)
these very, very deep pieces of us that creates our hottest experiences.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (29:55.589)
Yeah, and a lot of this is coming back to communication with your partner because you have to establish consent like you said, it has to feel safe. And so how do you help couples kind of start to have those conversations when maybe they are in this sexless, loveless, we don't, well not necessarily loveless, sexless, intimacy less relationship.

Xanet Pailet (29:59.604)
Yes.

Xanet Pailet (30:18.503)
Well, okay, I start in a couple of ways, but one of the things I've done is I created a tool because I find that this conversations are really hard to start. People are afraid they're gonna open up Pandora's box.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (30:30.246)
Yes.

Xanet Pailet (30:34.225)
right, and don't know what's gonna happen afterwards, especially if they're in a sexless marriage and they can't communicate, which typically go hand in hand. And so the tool is an intimacy equation formula. So it's like this, you know, cute little three minute quiz that you can take.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (30:34.81)
Yep.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (30:43.685)
Yes.

Xanet Pailet (30:57.337)
where you get to identify what your intimacy style is like. Are you somebody who comes into intimacy through talking? Are you somebody who comes into it through touch? Is adventure important to you? Is it about trust and loyalty, right? Really kind of understanding that piece. And I'll tell you where you can find it. can go to howtoimprovemylovelife.com, howtoimprovemylovelife.com.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (31:14.395)
Mm-hmm.

Xanet Pailet (31:27.051)
I think because generally speaking, it's women who are going to perhaps start this approach. Maybe I don't know in my experience or maybe men, you know, and then you go to your partner and you're like, Hey, I took this kind of fun quiz about my intimacy style. I'm curious, like what yours is. Right. So it's kind of a low risk way. And I do tell couples like you want to start this conversation in a low risk way. You do not want to start this conversation. like, Hey, we haven't.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (31:34.47)
Mm-hmm.

Xanet Pailet (31:56.964)
had sex in three years, we've got a problem. You've got to find a low risk way to start the conversation. And I have found that this has been a really good tool for couples to begin to start the conversation and understand how their styles interact with each other and what are the like, what are the good things about it? And what are the things that you kind of have to be aware of as well? So low risk, you know, conversations, not like, let's start the whole, you

Stephanie Zwonitzer (31:58.107)
Right. Yes. Yes.

Xanet Pailet (32:26.907)
ball of wax. That's one way.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (32:28.014)
Yeah. And I love that. generally suggest to people, know, hey, if this podcast episode resonated with you, share it with your partner and say, hey, can we talk about this later? If you read a blog or a book or whatever, share it with your partner and say, hey, this really spoke to me. Can we talk? Can you look at it too? And we can talk about it because that is a pretty low risk way. It's not saying, hey, this is exactly how I feel and you're not doing this. It's like saying, hey, they talked about this topic in this podcast that really resonated with me.

Maybe it'll resonate with you too and we can talk about it. And it really takes that pressure off of you saying, I don't think our sex life is good enough.

Xanet Pailet (32:59.326)
Yeah.

Xanet Pailet (33:05.233)
Right, exactly. That's what happened with my first book. know, like so many men read it, even though it was geared towards women, but men want to understand women, right? And then showed it to their partners as well, right? And so, yes, I agree with that. Like that's another low risk way of sharing information without blaming or shaming, pointing fingers, and then just creating more distance and conflict.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (33:11.29)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yep.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (33:28.516)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (33:32.038)
Yeah, yeah. So once they start these conversations, how do you kind of like get them to pull out the real issues and work through, you know, start that process?

Xanet Pailet (33:42.365)
Well, I mean, when I work with couples in a on a retreat, so I do individual one on one retreats in Asheville over four to five days, depending upon where they are. We actually start in a different way. We start with like creating the emotional safety. Right. And through some practices, through some eye gazing, through some, you know, rituals like exercises, I put them through around empathy.

it like to stand in your partner's shoes to kind of understand who your partner is, can you express that, does that resonate with them, right? So I like to really start to create that emotional connection and that emotional safety and then I do some rituals from the tantra world and wind into that a communication exercise about sex and love.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (34:34.416)
Mm-hmm. Okay.

Xanet Pailet (34:36.785)
right, starting with like, do you like to be loved? How can I love you more? And then what holds us back sexually?

And that starts by that point, like there's been enough safety established in the room amongst all three of us that generally there's a lot that comes out from that space, right? But, know, honestly, Stephanie, like the couples that I see are often at their end of their rope, right? And so we might spend the next day of the retreat just like going back and trying to do some repair and bringing up all of the ways in which there's been resentment

Stephanie Zwonitzer (34:55.376)
Mm-hmm.

Xanet Pailet (35:14.239)
that's built up or betrayal that's built up or disappointment and helping them be able to in a very safe way be able to to express that to each other, which I often do through like talking through them like the puppet little approach, which is very effective because often they don't know how to say it, but I can say it for them or at least decently so that they start to be like, OK, and and here's a process that I'm going to teach

Stephanie Zwonitzer (35:15.078)
Sure.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (35:29.775)
Yeah.

Xanet Pailet (35:43.979)
YouTube.

to be able to create this ability to repair when you're feeling distanced from each other, when you're feeling disconnected from each other, that will create more connection and more intimacy. so ultimately you'll know that, okay, yeah, we're gonna have a fight, but we're not gonna sweep it under the rug like we've done for the last 15 years and built up all of this resentment. We know we're gonna be able to repair this. after a while, after we've done this a couple of times successfully,

we're going to have the safety in our bodies that it's not going to destroy us. It's going to actually create more connection and more closeness, right? So it's a very somatic, experiential, immersive experience for them to have that feeling in their body about what safety feels like in the relationship itself. And in my book, I take people through some parts of the exercises as well. Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (36:24.217)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (36:36.196)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (36:40.312)
Okay, okay perfect. I love that when you do these retreats you get several days with them to really work through these processes and teach them so they have these tools when they leave you to keep progressing their relationship.

Xanet Pailet (36:51.091)
Right.

Xanet Pailet (36:54.729)
Right, exactly. And that's important, right, for them to have the tools. And I think also, you know, I've been doing this for 15 years, right. And during the pandemic, I did a lot on, obviously, virtual. And it just, it just was super frustrating to me working with couples. And I know plenty of people do it and do it well. I don't. I like actually need to see them in the room. And I don't like the time. You know, we have, we work in three hour blocks on my retreats, which is plenty of time.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (37:03.462)
Mm-hmm.

Xanet Pailet (37:24.683)
But you see stuff that shows up in real time and you don't have a clock that says we have to stop now. It's like right now we're gonna go right into that thing that happened 30 years ago. This happens all the time and we're gonna like we're gonna talk about the feelings that you've never actually expressed to each other about it and that's incredibly healing for them because nobody's done that.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (37:28.025)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (37:44.58)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes so much sense. That's fabulous. do you do, I can't remember, do you do group retreats as well or do you just do the individualized ones?

Xanet Pailet (37:49.181)
Yeah.

Xanet Pailet (37:56.229)
No, I do once a year. just, excuse me, I just came back from Costa Rica. I do retreats in Costa Rica once a year for a group. And yeah, and these retreats are like next year, I'm going to do a retreat focused more on like the emotional connection, the emotional intimacy. There'll be some sexual stuff, of course, as well. And then I kind of level them up and then they can, you know, next year they or the next retreat, they can go to one that's a little more heavily.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (38:05.999)
Okay.

Xanet Pailet (38:26.172)
erotic. Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (38:26.54)
Okay, okay, that's neat. So are the people who come to the group retreats generally ones that have already worked with you individually or is it more of a new patient kind of thing?

Xanet Pailet (38:37.928)
It's a mix. I have, you know, it which retreat I'm doing. But what, right, right, like one or two couples that have worked with me individually and then they also want to come to a group retreat, because it's a different experience. You know, it's like not only are you in a group, but like we're doing blue clay rituals in the lake and, you know, we're doing cacao ceremonies and sound healing and it's just a different, more immersive experience.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (38:43.632)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (38:53.36)
Sure, yep.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (39:00.077)
Okay.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (39:07.738)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Xanet Pailet (39:07.982)
in nature, right? But then there's always like a fair amount of people that I've never met before. I I meet them on Zoom because we have a pre-retreat. You know, I screen out people, but I've never met them before and they just come. Yeah, which is fun.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (39:16.453)
Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (39:20.176)
Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's really neat. think, you know, some people really do well in the group environment for the whole, I'm not alone, I'm not broken, like we talked about earlier. And then other people, that is very uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable to even admit you have issues and then to do that in a group setting. So I love that you have both that you offer, because I think that really helps people in different phases of their relationship too. Yeah.

Xanet Pailet (39:34.95)
Right.

Yes.

Xanet Pailet (39:48.807)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. One thing that's really interesting about the group process, particularly for men, right, is, you know, women.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (39:55.642)
Mm-hmm.

Xanet Pailet (39:59.335)
you know, we cocoon, like we nest with each other. But men don't do that, right? Like they don't talk about this stuff. And I think one of the things that comes out of the retreats every year is how connected the men are and what it feels like to have like a brotherhood of other men who they can actually share stuff about their relationship with. And many of them maintain those relationships for, you know, long periods of time as well, which is a beautiful thing.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (40:01.06)
Yeah. Yes, we do. Right.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (40:16.334)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (40:27.502)
Yeah, it is. I actually had a guest on here who works with male groups because of the research behind it and how much men do need that connection, but it's not

Xanet Pailet (40:31.526)
Ahem.

Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (40:40.164)
considered normal, I guess. It's not societally normal for them to have those deep conversations with other men or to have, you know, girls night out and they have guys night out, but then they just go play pool or something, whereas at girls night out, we tell each other everything. So, you know, it's, it was interesting to listen to his perspective and the research on it on how much men truly need other men to support them and to help them go through these kinds of things. Yeah.

Xanet Pailet (40:52.348)
Right. Right. Right.

Xanet Pailet (41:05.596)
Definitely, yeah. It's a shame that our society is so...

misogynist around it, right? Like it's a shame because everybody needs support and we all need community and we all need connection and everybody really actually does want to be vulnerable. I think that's one of the fun things that happens in the retreat. Everybody like says, I'm afraid of being vulnerable. And then the very first exercise I make them all be vulnerable. And they're like, that felt so good to be able to like say those things I've never said before, right?

Stephanie Zwonitzer (41:14.276)
Yeah. Yeah.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (41:31.694)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I bet that's amazing. That's amazing. What a fun conversation today. I'm so glad you've been on here with us. Tell people how they can get in touch with you, find you, remind them of the names of your books.

Xanet Pailet (41:45.168)
stuff.

Xanet Pailet (41:49.18)
Yeah, so you can go to my website, which is passionateintimacyretreats with an S dot com, passionateintimacyretreats.com. The names of my books, you can find my books on Amazon, & Noble, and some other nonprofit things, are Living an Orgasmic Life and the Sex and Intimacy Repair Kit.

Stephanie Zwonitzer (42:13.703)
And we will put those links and the names of the books in the show notes. So if you're driving right now, you don't have to try and write this down while you're driving. Just be safe. And we'll get you those links in the show notes. Thank you so much for being here. Such a great conversation today. Absolutely. All right, everybody. If you need health and hormone and sexual wellness tips and treatment, go ahead and go to reviveish.com and sign up for a consultation. And as always, go have some fun between the sheets.

Xanet Pailet (42:26.642)
Thank you, Stephanie.