Selfless Success: Embracing Mudita and Gratitude

What does it mean to be truly selfless on a team? Join us as we challenge the notion that individual accolades are the ultimate goal by exploring the profound practice of Mudita, or selfless joy. Through personal stories and reflections, we revisit our younger years when selflessness was an unspoken norm and unheard-of concept and through discussion how it became more consciously embraced during our college days. This episode unpacks the difficulties of nurturing selflessness in an environment where personal performance often takes center stage and underscores the critical role coaches play in cultivating athletes who prioritize team success above personal glory. Discover how creating a positive team culture where teammates support and celebrate each other's successes can transform the competitive landscape.

We also tackle the nature versus nurture debate, focusing on how selflessness can be developed within team dynamics. You'll hear real-life examples demonstrating how selfish actions are identified and corrected, and how shared responsibilities can reinforce selfless habits. We also highlight the importance of gratitude, both within the team and individually. Learn how simple gratitude exercises and self-compassion can shift mindsets from performance-focused to self-loving, leading to healthier habits and improved mental health. Tune in to discover how fostering gratitude and self-love can create a harmonious and successful team environment.

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Transcript

Embracing Selflessness in Sports

Speaker 1 0:00

Today we're going to be talking about selflessness and embracing mudita and how that looks like on and off the field and how we've kind of interpreted it, because the selflessness in general really the term wasn't really brought up to me until I got to college. I feel like it was one of those things where it was. It was never like talked about when I was younger, but it was just something that it was inherently almost like understood. It was never like something that was a topic that was talked about. I don't know if you like have ever experienced like was, was selflessness or being selfless as a player? Was that something ever talked about before college or in college for you?

Speaker 2 0:41

I don't necessarily think it was brought up like at the forefront of like playing. I think like, growing up it was always like how many goals can I score, how many this, how many that like? What are the accolades? And I still think that that's a an environment in which a lot of sports are thriving off of, like environments at least, because, like you know, we're so focused on performance and stats and this and that and whatever, and so like athletes get trapped or stuck in this mentality of like if I don't perform and if I don't do my absolute, you know best and like show off to everyone, then I'm not gonna get playing time. You know what I mean? That's a good point and that would. That's what kind of like comes back to me. I think as I was growing up I couldn't really grasp that concept. Plus, I mean, when you're young you don't really have the prefrontal cortex, you have this. You know now that we're like.

Speaker 1 1:33

That is true, you're a lot more mature, absolutely To that point like I feel like if someone told me, like at 14, like oh yeah, by the way, like we're trying to embrace selflessness and mudita, and mudita, by the way, means selfless joy, so it's like finding enjoyment and fulfillment in the success of others essentially, but I think, definitely from a younger age it's hard to grasp, right, like it's really hard to grasp at a younger age, like probably under high school, you're probably not getting that more much of that unless it's taught in your house not to take away from any of that.

Speaker 2 2:06

But when it comes to the sports realm at that age you're trying to, you know, get into the competitive side of sports. You're trying to get on the best teams. You're trying to get, you know, seen by college coaches and you kind of lose that sense of selflessness in sports right.

Speaker 2 2:21

Like that age is really really hard. Selflessness in sports right Like that age is really really hard. And I think when you transition to college level, some coaches are more favorable to being selfless and like teaching that and making you a better rounded person to be a better rounded athlete, but that's not always the case. I've been on teams where it's definitely hasn't been something that's taught, and I think it should be a hundred percent yeah, it should be something that's taught and I think it should be 100. Yeah, it should be something that should be at the forefront of every, every team, every talk and knowing how to be like selfless in order to support the team. You know, and that transitional phase of like oh, I'm not in high school anymore, like I'm working, like with a team.

Speaker 1 3:03

It's like everyone's really good on this team everyone's so good yeah right you have to bring. It's almost like you have to bring other things to the table besides just your athletic ability yeah, I mean it goes into like a culture thing, it goes into creating that positive environment and again embracing mudita.

Speaker 1 3:22

And even though you might be in competition with someone else on your team for the same spot, if they're doing better than you, then you want, you want to push them to be better, just like they're going to push, push you to be better yeah, I always wanted to play around the strongest and best players.

Speaker 2 3:36

I never I I never got a lot of fulfillment from being the absolute best on the team and I don't know if that's just like me, but like even in high school and stuff like I, my high school team wasn't good and so I was considered one of the better athletes and I was the same with me as well, and I'd played like varsity soccer since I was a freshman which is crazy. That never happened in my hometown like freshman didn't play in varsity, but I was playing, and so when I transitioned to college, like it was hard to like. You know, these, these kids are like 22, 23, they're seniors, you know and there's a huge maturity thing there.

Speaker 1 4:10

From like a freshman like first semester to like, yeah, senior, their first semester, it's like huge distance and there's definitely a maturity um in there as well, in terms of and I think that's's why you have to I feel like from a coaching perspective you hope that with that maturity level, that there is a reason why those older athletes, your seniors, are looked at as those leaders from an experience standpoint, but it could also be from a maturity standpoint.

Speaker 2 4:41

Right, but it's fostered from the coaching staff, right oh 100%.

Speaker 1 4:43

That all starts from the coaching staff.

Speaker 2 4:48

That selflessness needs to be from the coaching staff. 100. That's not something that, like athletes are just gonna come in and be like, oh, I'm gonna be selfless, like, because everyone wants to score goals, everyone's to shine, oh yeah, everyone wants to get the minutes, but it's like, okay. So what I was getting out with um always looking for the players that are the absolute best and like learning from them is that like there's nothing more humbling than standing by a player and like them just crossing you up like on the soccer field at least, like you know, like dangling through you or whatever, and then being like, wow, that was really good, I'm gonna get better at this, so they can't do that to me again. Yeah, oh, 100, you know I can, I can appreciate that talent and I want to get to that level, but like I'm not there yet. And that's the selflessness that you need to look at, you know and to push yourself right.

Speaker 1 5:29

Well, and it's I, I would say it's even an off the field thing too, it I there was one, there was one instance, and actually I'll ask you this question before I I tell this story what is selflessness to you? In terms of if you could describe what selflessness is as like a thing.

Speaker 2 5:49

Yeah, what is it? I think it would just be putting yourself and your ego aside to benefit someone else or another group of individuals, knowing that you're taking something away from yourself. Like knowing you have to know that you're taking something away from yourself. Like knowing you have to know that you're losing something. You have to put something aside for the betterment of a group or another individual or whatever the other thing is. They gain from it and you lose from it, but then the cycle about it is that in, in the end, you also gain oh, 100, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 6:24

So, like it's that that loop of selflessness that comes back. What, what you give, also comes back to you, and I think that's like where I feel like selflessness comes into play. A lot is that you know I have to take, you know, my ego or whatever it is at that point and be like all right, let me check that and let someone else you know, or their needs come before mine so would you say that selflessness is something that can be, can be taught, absolutely it's a skill.

Fostering Selflessness in Team Dynamics

Speaker 1 6:51

It's a skill I like that. I was gonna say I was gonna go off that and say it's almost like a habit, yeah, in a way where it's something that you like almost inherently learn through I, I want to say almost through osmosis, like I remember, like being on my team. I don't want to say like I, it was just something that it was always something that I was like aware of. Just I feel like there are certain aspects of some people are more it's all I would say a more awareness of others. Yeah, as well, okay, yeah, if that makes sense, where it it's like, where some people may not have that enact or initial awareness of others, of, like taking care of others or but I think it's something that can definitely be taught and and and be a, be a habit more, more than it is like a skill or a um or an action.

Speaker 2 7:38

I think there's a difference between like nature, nurture stuff and then, um, you know, between like nature, nurture stuff and then, like you know, the like selflessness. Obviously some people just have more mature and like nurturing, like attributes. That's fair From a nature, yeah.

Speaker 1 7:54

From a nature standpoint, yeah.

Speaker 2 7:55

But you also like have to learn from someone how to put yourself you know aside to for the benefit.

Speaker 1 8:03

So what would you say?

Speaker 2 8:04

the best way to learn selflessness is to see it, observe it, have other people around you be like hey, like you know, maybe even check, like, call you out.

Speaker 2 8:12

You know, like, if you're like, you know, you're just running around zipping around scoring goals left and right, but like in warm-ups, but the objective is to warm up your goalkeepers. You know that's fair, knowing those things, or like it like. I guess it's different because, like, when you're warming up, you like are also trying to warm up yourself. But if we've done three drills for the shooters and this one's specifically for the goalkeepers, like all right, like let's, yeah, it's when we do specific things for for those things like we're doing, yeah, like we're doing a bunning drill.

Speaker 1 8:41

But the point of bunting drill maybe it's not necessarily for the batters, maybe it's for our corners and we have to put it in a certain spot. Then it's like okay, this isn't about me, this is about them. I remember this one. It sticks out to me. I think we had talked about like selflessness and everything like that. One of my teammates was like come on, guys, we need to be selfless. It kind of stuck isn't in action, but to your point, I guess it can be something where you can call someone out like hey, we, like we. Now that I've reflected on, it's like okay, because my initial opinion was like selflessness isn't something that you do, it's just something that you are and something you become. It's something that becomes innate within you. But to your point, it could you, it could be something I guess, now that I'm understanding, it could be something you could call out, be like hey, like we talked about this, you know why aren't we?

Speaker 2 9:41

this is the goal. Picking up the equipment.

Speaker 1 9:43

It was one of those situations where, like, people were just like walking off and there was equipment everywhere. Yeah, one of our senior leaders had said like hey or um, or I think she, I think she was a junior, yeah, I remember like was like um, like hey, we need to like be selfless and do this where I guess it kind of run.

Speaker 1 9:58

It rubbed me the wrong way, I feel like at the time, but I think after having this conversation I can understand the perspective, I guess, where she was coming in front of calling out, you know, like, hey, we need to do this better.

Speaker 2 10:10

Yeah which makes sense. Well, I think also, there's a. There's a ton of different ways you can be selfish on a team. I think one of the one of the um best environments I've ever had on a team is when I played at franklin pierce, and the environment and the standard was set from the coaching staff. This is how we're going to behave, this is what we're going to do. We're going to be um grateful. We're going to, you know, show respect, we're going to be thankful, like. These are things that are just standards, standard traits that we're gonna hold.

Speaker 2 10:36

Um, thankful, grateful, humble. That was our mantra that day. That year we had the bracelets that we all wore. It was like you know, you always have these things, you know, and um, then the other part of it was that it's just us, so like we're all working towards a common goal, um, and it all like kind of loops in together. So it's like all right, as long as we have those traits of being thankful, grateful, humble, and like all working together, um, we're gonna have a better end goal, because we're all doing this to protect ourselves from the outside threats, which would be losing games. So, and to kind of wrap into that um one of the ways that we you know all had that mutual respect and selflessness was that we each had jobs on the team, so we had things that we needed to do and it wasn't just the freshmen it was everyone, it was a bunch of.

Speaker 2 11:21

So like I was on the equipment team, so like we had to take equipment and pick things, you know, make sure the equipment was on the field, blah, blah, take it, do whatever you know. And it was, you know, freshmen, sophomore junior, seniors, like it was everyone. It wasn't just like when we would be like academic teams, we had like, so they didn't like help the people that like we're having, you know, failing classes or doing whatever, and we had like, uh, I don't know, we'd make a bunch of random stuff and be like, um, whatever we needed to do to get to make sure that we were well-functioning team yeah, everyone was all a part of the whole, of the whole everyone had a part within the whole and even the coaching staffs had things they needed to do.

Speaker 2 11:54

Obviously they were coaches so they had like things, but, like you, never felt like one person was pulling more weight than the other because we all did it. But when, when you get to college and I was I've had other teams first like a freshman do everything. Oh they, I had to do everything, so they have to do.

Speaker 1 12:09

I had that in in, Like we had to go up this very, very steep hill in order to get to our field. Yeah, and the freshmen carried everything.

Speaker 2 12:20

Yeah, and I was just like I did it Like I'm not going to play, I'm like, all right, I get it Absolutely.

Speaker 1 12:26

But as I got like when I was a sophomore and junior, I'm like I don't like this. It doesn't feel. Yeah, like I don't like this, it doesn't feel. I ended up actually just helping the freshmen. And then another one of my teammates who was my age, I'm like, yeah, let's just help them. It would be so much quicker if we all did it together right. Like we could all do it.

Speaker 2 12:43

They don't have to take 17 trips down this hill to do whatever they need to do.

Speaker 2 12:48

Yeah, oh, 100%. We all endure this struggle together and in that sense, struggling makes you stronger as a group. If you're all going through painful things, it's like when you like your coaches like run to you or whatever. You get motivation off of that seeing your other teammates go through the struggle as well. Right, it's a, it's a bonding moment. Yeah, 100 it's a bonding moment, and so I think it's it's also funny to me because it goes kind of off of like I'm kind of obsessed with like heroes and villains.

Speaker 2 13:14

I am fascinated with them because they both come from a similar background of like going through a traumatic experience or something bad happened to them or something you know. Like they have that event that was like, okay, this changed my life. The difference between the two is that a villain wants to get revenge and they want to punish the world for things that have happened to them, but, on the other hand, a hero wants that to never happen to someone again. They want to ensure that life is better for people and that they have a better experience than the experience that they had. And I think that goes hand in hand with what we're talking about, because for me, like I said, two different teams. One was we all do things together and we figure it out together and we make sure that everyone's having a better experience, day by day or year by year, um, and not, you know, it's the same thing with like hazing and stuff. Like you know, it's not allowed anymore. It's like why was that?

Speaker 1 14:08

ever. Okay, why would I?

Speaker 2 14:09

ever want to do that to someone else, like I want to make sure that they have a better experience and are more supported and don't have to go through as many like stressors and things like that. Um, and then I have the other. The other teams are like, oh, they deserve it because I went through it. It's the same thing with the military. They go through that a lot with the military where it's like oh well, it happened to me, so it's going to happen to you. I think it's my obligation, my duty as a young, soon-to-be staff sergeant, where I want my troops to have a better experience than me, I want them to have a better life than me, I want them to be better humans than me. I think that should be my role, right?

Speaker 1 14:45

Yeah, I think it's like To enable them to be better. Yeah, in a leadership role, you want them to. I always looked at it from the. I want them to be better, but I from the. I want them to be better, but I also I want to be the leader that they deserve yeah, maybe I might not have had why hinder them?

Speaker 2 15:02

it's like when you tell a kid that they're a bad kid, they're probably going to do things to start acting like a bad kid because you've told them that. But that's because you told them that if you tell them that they're a great kid and they're doing great things and that even if they make mistakes it's still okay, they're still going to be supported, you'll see exponential differences in performance between the two kids oh, 100 it's a.

Fostering Gratitude and Self-Love

Speaker 1 15:21

If you, instead of butting yeah and pushing back yeah, you just kind of hold it together like again, see where they're coming from, you see where they'll see where you're coming from, and if you kind of create that growth environment, they can, they know we're all, we're all in this together. Yeah, and I'll tie this back to because you mentioned gratitude. Yeah, have you ever heard of doing an attitude of gratitude?

Speaker 2 15:48

I've heard a little bit, but yeah, you can explain it a little bit more so at the paw.

Speaker 1 15:52

What we would do before every practice is we would just get in a circle. I think we did it. I can't remember if we did it after warm-ups or before warm-ups, but before, like, we got into the drills and the nitty-gritty of athletics, yeah, uh, we would have an attitude of gratitude which essentially gave we just got in a circle and everyone had the opportunity, if they wanted to, to share an attitude of gratitude. It could be someone did something great for you who was on the team. It could be like oh my, I was talking to my mom. She helped me with X Y and Z.

Speaker 1 16:25

It was a way to express gratitude, because I truly believe gratitude is a very powerful force. It just it feels good, not only when it happens to you, but when you put it out there, absolutely and it's just.

Speaker 1 16:43

It's one of those few things in life where you both gain it's a win-win even just putting, just putting it out there, and it could be like something like super, super simple, like, oh, like so-and-so, you know, helped me. You know I was running from class to class and they grabbed me a sandwich because they knew and I'm grateful for that Again it could be within the team, it could be someone else that they don't know. It gives everyone that opportunity of putting that gratitude and putting that positiveness out there and it's, I felt like it started the, the practice on the right foot of that. This is who we are, this is what we do, this is what I'm grateful for. And then boom, let's. Let's go right to work. It kind of settles everything in a sense I might steal that.

Speaker 2 17:29

That might be a tidbit. Do it, I might have to, because I actually really really like that. Franklin pierce, we did something similar, but it was very much so like the team oriented thing and it was after every practice, in every game. What we do is we get in a circle and we start. Every single person talks about another individual who they think like um, deserve the chains. And it wasn't like necessarily, like it didn't have to be like the best performer. It could be like this person did this, this, this and that's why I think they deserve, you know, whatever um, but it's still like gratitude for you know, whatever you come up with for specific things and what I liked about it the most is like there were there were days where maybe we had like 10 15 attitude to gratitudes.

Speaker 1 18:08

There were other days where maybe it was like one or two, it was just creating the space for oh not everyone had to go.

Speaker 1 18:15

Okay, not everyone had to go which I feel like could be a little bit more meaningful, because maybe you don't have to share, or if I feel like it also made it a little bit more genuine to where, if something, if you are truly grateful yeah, for this that happened, yeah, you're able to share it versus this is gonna be times when you're not, you're not granted, like days where, like, oh, I got to come up with something to be grateful for or something that happened.

Speaker 2 18:41

I think it works well either way, Even if you're forced to be grateful. I think it's so good.

Speaker 1 18:45

I feel like, even speaking it, even if it's a half truth, yeah, sometimes just putting it out there and I don't know I could go into like a lot of attraction and all that bs, but that's a different episode affirmations.

Speaker 2 18:56

Right, that's like why you do affirmations.

Speaker 1 18:58

It's why you know, even if you don't 100.

Speaker 2 19:01

Believe in what you're saying. At some point you will, because the brain is so, so, so powerful and so complex, like you can trick yourself into thinking both good and bad.

Speaker 2 19:09

But with society nowadays, I feel like we are also trained to think more on the negative side and I think that's been such a big shift for me from um, college and like sports to now, uh, my career and and doing things more for myself and having that perspective, change of like oh, that used to be super unhealthy I used to do in high school and college as an athlete. I want to change that because I don't want to feel that way anymore. So then I start saying you know, like, all right, we can go on a run without our apple watch, because I just want to go on a run, I don't need to beat this time every single time I was always like so time oriented that and I would get so upset with myself when I didn't hit a benchmark that it would like literally ruin my day.

Speaker 2 19:53

I'd be like I didn't get 720 on my mouth this morning or whatever you know, usually you know around whatever I felt like I needed to hit that day. Or you know, on the six mile ones I didn't hit like whatever you know, that sort of thing, yeah, and I would just like it would literally ruin my day. And so like now, as like working off of gratitude too, there's gratitude for yourself, right, oh 100 and self-love, and like selflessness also goes in hand with your, with yourself.

Speaker 2 20:21

Yeah, you have to yeah right, you have to put some things aside, be like, hey, like it's okay, you're okay you're okay, it's fine like we love you, it's gonna be all right, yeah, look at yourself okay yeah, yeah just positive self-talk. It goes a long way and it's like one of those things I really had to like learn how to do again a skill, a skill of selflessness it's a skill and a habit.

Speaker 1 20:42

It's something that you just, if you do it enough, it will become. It becomes a habit, which a habit is habit. Oh, I was gonna relate it to like the glee the latin root word but now I can't, so I'm not gonna do that. Um, yeah, but it's like, has to do with being like. A habit is something that you are, it's something that you do. Yeah, which is I 100. I'm so glad that you brought up the, the personal gratitude of it, because there are some names here.

Speaker 1 21:10

You're just gonna have some shitty days and there were some days where I would just be so frustrated and so stressed more on my job side. Yeah, yeah, and I love my job, I love where I'm at.

Speaker 2 21:20

I am.

Speaker 1 21:21

I truly mean this. I'm truly grateful for the opportunity that I'm in. Not a lot of people have the opportunity to work with the type of people that I work with and and do what we do for the warfighter it is. I could go on and on, but I won't. But you're gonna have those days where, even though you love your job, like you are stressed and it is terrible and I remember I'd be calling my mom. I'm like mom, like you know. Again, you have to vent. I feel like as a person, you have to vent. You get, as my my coach will say, you have two to five minutes to vent, then you're done.

Speaker 2 21:52

I used to say eight minutes. I get eight minutes max.

Speaker 1 21:55

You got eight minutes to feel that like to feel it, to talk about it by eight minutes I guarantee you'll feel better you'll feel better because it's off your chest you're done with it you gotta. You gotta get it off your chest. But at the end of the day I would tell my mom I'm like I'm so grateful to be here, but, just like saying it, it's like I'm grateful to be here, i'm'm grateful to do what I do. There aren't people that have the opportunity that I get to do what I do, and it's in those high stress situations where you're just feeling really crappy. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 22:28

That's when you have to do it, even though that's probably not when you want to do it Probably not when you want to do it, and I think having people like your mom to remind you of that is also especially when you're going through that transitional phase of not necessarily being able to always do it for yourself, but having someone be like all right, let's take a moment, Like, let's settle down for a second.

Speaker 2 22:46

Yeah, let's talk to it. I do it with my teammates no, not my teammates, I mean, I used to do it with my teammates but I'm talking about my kids, my kids I coach. Yeah, um, I do it all the time. I'll be like we'll be at halftime and they're like expecting, like the head, our head coach will be like hey, aka, you got halftime, go get it. I'm like all right, cool the way he runs a half down, the way I run halftime completely different, like a lot of times.

Speaker 2 23:10

I'm literally over there and I'll just like be like all right, throwing a book down and be like, hey, let's take a moment, settle, like we just need to keep it simple, like we are all trying to do the same thing, but we're just all in our heads and I think that's the biggest thing is, you get stuck in your head and like having someone be like it's okay to be there. Let's refocus this and let's be more productive about the energy that we're throwing out. Refocus this and let's be more productive about the energy that we're we're throwing out, because anxiousness and like stress and nerves is all good for performance, but it's the excess amount of it. You have to know how to like channel that energy to be like a you know a force in the field, because if you don't, you're gonna get the opposite side, where it hinders your performance and you don't want that. So like having that balance and being like, all right, we're here, it's okay, it's fine, we're fine, we're good.

Speaker 1 23:58

I would say that's also like very selfless of you as well, because you, as a coach, you want to perform and you want to make sure they're performing, but you also know that you have to make sure they're they're feeling okay. Yeah, because if they're feeling good and okay, then that's what's gonna push them to to perform.

Speaker 2 24:17

Yeah, I mean, there's nothing harder than watching your, your kids, struggle on the field and wanting so badly like because, right, you want to do it, like you want to go out there and you want to win. Well, you also. That is that I also want to be on the field playing. Like you know, I give anything to be on the field again, play, and so I want to take that pain away from them. But sometimes you just have to like, be like you know that light hand and be like, hey, I'm here for you. Um, you know, we got this. You're not alone.

Speaker 1 24:42

Goes a long way well, and that just goes back to when we tied in, when we were talking about leadership of just being there, yeah, like that's the biggest selfless thing you can ever is just being there and just listening to someone, whether you're a coach, whether you're a supervisor, like I had a teammate of mine like you're. You were in a tough situation, she'd be there and she would just listen. I went through a tough time cried, bald, called her and she just let me talk and I talked for like probably 10 minutes cries, not everything, and she just let me. She just let me have my moment and then you know again, then offer you know, advice and stuff like that same with, uh, my other supervisor like super high stress I think I talked about it, uh, last time on the podcast. You gotta let people just feel their emotions, yeah, and listen. I feel like listening is one of the best skills and I would say one of the most selfless skills you can have is being an active listener, because sometimes that's all people need.

Speaker 2 25:40

Sometimes people aren't even want, they don't even need or want advice, they just want to be heard I would say for the most part, it's probably it right, and I think simon cynic uh says it says it best. He said sometimes you just need someone to sit in the mud with you. You, you don't need anything else, just I need someone to sit there, listen to me and just like, let me get my like what I need off my chest before we start giving all these solutions and things and blah, blah, blah, whatever you know, making things more complicated. So he's sitting in the mud with someone. It's important. Sit in the mud with someone, just sit there. It might be uncomfortable for both of us. It's probably going to be uncomfortable for both of us oh yeah, Whatever, We'll get through it in eight minutes.

Speaker 2 26:19

Right Sit in the mud Could be longer. I guess I like it. It's usually the time frame it takes for someone to vent all their feelings and get through it 100%.

Speaker 1 26:29

The most selfless thing you can do is be there for people yeah, absolutely and go through the suck with them, because we all go through it. Elena, this was awesome. Thank you, guys. We will catch you next time on the Beyond the Cleats podcast.