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Beyond the Cleats
Join us, as we go Beyond the Cleats and explore how our athletic passions transform and shape our personal and professional lives!
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Beyond the Cleats
The Competitive Edge: Harnessing Drive in Sports and Sales
What fuels an athlete’s competitive spirit? Is it the thrill of victory, the fear of defeat, or something more nuanced? In this episode of Beyond the Cleats, we delve into the intricate world of competition with my good friend Noah, a former competitive rower who has since transitioned to a thriving career in sales. From our early days of sibling rivalries to the adrenaline-packed races, Noah and I share personal anecdotes that reveal the roots of our relentless drive. Together, we reflect on how these experiences have shaped our approach to both sports and professional life.
Transitioning from the water to the workplace, Noah and I examine how competitive drive plays out in the sales environment. Discover the critical role of understanding individual motivations. We share insights on creating a collaborative culture that transforms competitive energy into positive motivation, ensuring mutual success and fulfillment for all team members. This episode is not just about winning; it's about fostering a supportive community where everyone’s strengths are recognized and celebrated, whether in sports, professional settings, or beyond.
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Welcome back to Beyond the Cleats. Today we are talking about competition, and I have the two most competitive people I know on this podcast and I'm super excited to talk about it. We're going to be talking about competition on the field, off the fields, in the sales space. I have my good friend Noah with me, who is in sales, and I'm super excited to bring him on. He was a former rower and, without further ado, I'm going to let him introduce himself in sales.
Speaker 2:I went to college for sales. That's what I studied. I was a competitive sales student and all my competition probably started way back even before I started growing from my sister. Who's really who kind of pushed me to come as competitive as I am and it's really helped shape who I am today is that competitive nature that I have, Because why lose when you can win?
Speaker 3:Siblings always do that right.
Speaker 2:There is always competition.
Speaker 3:Yeah, siblings always bring out the competition. Honestly, I have three other siblings and there's not a day where I would have not died before beating them. Absolutely, you get it.
Speaker 2:None of us will ever admit who is the better rower to each other, even though we all secretly know who the better one was.
Speaker 1:That's fair, because you kind of come from a rowing family. Yes, and all your sister was. Was she not national championship?
Speaker 2:She won nationals in a double, that's crazy national championship. She won nationals, yeah, and a double. Uh. So her and her rowing partner, katie rand. They won nationals a long time ago, when they were both in high school they're in their mid-30s now, so and then they both went off to college for it, and my brother followed suit with rowing, and then I followed along and we all row competitively.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you were pretty competitive in high school. You were like one of the top rowers, because you're from Rhode Island where rowing is like it's huge.
Speaker 2:Yes, so rowing is huge. We have the oldest boat club in the country in Rhode Island. Narragansett Boat Club in Providence. That's where I rode. One of the places I rode. That was my main boat club and out of at least my group I will say I kicked everyone else's asses, I believe it, I believe it, I believe it.
Speaker 1:If you're as competitive in sales as you are on the water, I believe it.
Speaker 2:Admittedly, there were definitely other people that could have beat me. They just weren't in my group. They were in a different group of individuals and considering one of them has gone off to medal in the Olympics, I do have to admit he would have beat me back then.
Speaker 1:That's fair. Being a little humble, that's good. You need to be competitive. Being humble is also part of the recipe. And speaking about being humble, who's the most competitive in the room right now?
Speaker 2:Considering we already had an argument over this, we're not going to agree and we're both gonna just say it's us yeah I.
Speaker 1:I asked them this question before the camera started rolling and it was a. It was a good debate.
Speaker 3:We had to stare down for a little bit the question was asked and we just instantly looked at each other. We didn't I don't even think we looked at rita one time like, honestly, it was just us locked eyes and we were like it's one of us, it's one we don't know exactly yet, but one of us could win.
Speaker 2:Time will tell. I'll show that.
Speaker 1:Time will tell. Just a face off.
Speaker 3:Yeah, all right, thumb wrestle right now.
Speaker 1:No, what would you say? Do you have any good rowing stories? Because I know when I was at Coxon, you know there's constantly when you have like a bunch of boats out there, it's almost like you're racing and you're practicing, but you're also, you know, trying to push people. Do you have any good rowing stories?
Speaker 2:There's a ton of stories that come to my mind. I guess one of them it the the mayor cup in boston. I was racing in it. I had was coming towards the end of the finish line. I was rowing it, doing a double. We were in first at the time. There was another boat right on us and my partner did not believe me when I told him we were close to the finish line and I was yelling at him everything you have, this boat was gaining on us. There's not a gap between us. We are like neck and neck. I am yelling at him. He's telling me no, there's more to this race. We're less than 500 meters from the finish line.
Speaker 1:And for folks that don't uh know. So it's two, two rowers in a, in like a double.
Speaker 2:Yes, gotcha sculling, so two oars each. Um, no sweeps there, so sweeps is one oar. Uh, we both had two oars for sculling and I was. It was a 5k race because it was in the fall, so it was one of the longer races. We were easily less than a thousand meters to the finish line. We had that boat coming up. He refused to believe me until he finally realized that his family was standing near the finish line and he could see them off to his right. And that's when, all of a sudden, I could tell something clicked with him and I'm like oh shoot, he's not lying to me Just to make up a story. I think he thought I was lying to him to push him to row harder because they were gaining on us.
Speaker 1:They're gaining on you. He could see that.
Speaker 2:He just didn't believe we were that close to the finish line. And then all of a sudden something clicked in his mind and I could feel the power difference immediately coming from him. As soon as that clicked and he realized oh wait a minute, he's not lying to me, and I had already started going all out myself, all out myself. But if he's not going all out there, and the two people next to us who are pretty similar level or putting everything they've got into it, I mean, one of the sayings is that at least red in my family was real till you die. And then power 10 I like that yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that and.
Speaker 2:I yelled at him row till, you, die. And then I won another power, 10, and he did.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So we won the race.
Speaker 3:I was going to say, oh, we didn't win.
Speaker 2:We can't. They were. I mean there's a, I mean when, when it started off when I was yelling at him we had that much of a lead by the time we finished. They were a bullet.
Speaker 3:Nice.
Speaker 2:So we kicked their asses. I'm proud to say of that one, but that was my first experience with someone. I was like he didn't believe me because we hadn't been rowing together for a long time. He just knew I was competitive and I think in his mind I was competitive enough to lie to him about where we were in that race.
Speaker 3:And he didn't want to use all of his energy before.
Speaker 2:He didn't want to, but he knew I was competitive enough to know, even if we won, I wouldn't like it if someone else at any point ended up in front of us. Yeah, because that is true, right, yeah, I was determined not to let anyone have a hope or feeling that they could potentially win and that's what I also did in practice is I would never let any of them think they could beat me, because I would never allow them to row in front of me.
Speaker 1:Because I think part of being like a good competitor is just finding those like little things to be competitive. How do I get that edge? How do I get?
Speaker 2:that. So part of it for me was a mental manipulation of that. I was a scholar, so I rode just by myself. I was the only other person in the boat Majority of the time. I would occasionally ride doubles and race in a double.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I'd get thrown into team boats just because they needed someone, but 90% of the time I was rowing by myself, which meant everyone else that I was rowing with in my group. When we would go to races and compete, we all would go to the same regattas. We'd all be competing against each other. So it was guaranteed at least a couple of the people that I trained with and practiced with every single day I would be going up against during the race and I knew if I wanted the competitive edge on them when it came to race day they can never believe they had a chance of beating me, and the way to make them believe that was to never allow them to beat me in practice even, and so I would never allow them to row in front of me in practice. And it was all mental game and because of that, not a single person I ever rode with on a daily basis ever beat me.
Speaker 3:That is so interesting. I think it's a little different with team sports, because so for team sports, for soccer, I think a lot of athletes will like count goals or things like that in practice and be like I got 10 goals, blah, blah, whatever, because what else you're gonna do? I'm not gonna like push my teammate into the ground, and you know I mean like but it comes down both ways right.
Speaker 3:So if you're scoring tons of goals in practice, you're gonna be like all right, builds that confidence that you're gonna score tons of goals in games.
Speaker 3:So it's the same thing for you. You're building that confidence in yourself. No one's gonna be in front of me, because I've already built that in practice. Your teammates, on the other hand. Well, now you're playing against, which is all in itself an interesting complexity. But they're also thinking I've never beat this guy in a practice. How am I to beat him in this race Exactly? So that's cool, that's really cool. I think that's definitely interesting.
Speaker 1:Well, I think it's also building that, like I think we've talked about before, of building kind of that healthy competition and that healthy culture, a little bit more relatable with team sports, but definitely for like individual sports as well, of like pushing your teammates Like. A perfect example with softball, I was one of the you know primary like pinch runners on our team and we had some really good catchers. So one of the drills was you know, you're stealing, was stealing, stacking and throwing down. The mindset really was because we had some really good catchers and I knew if I could beat them, that I could beat anybody else. So I think it's it's pushing them to be the best while knowing and pushing myself to be the best, also knowing if they're gonna get me.
Speaker 2:Then they did a good job, yeah and so I think that's the big difference, whereas it for you, it was pushing your teammates to strive better, because at the end of the day, you're on the same team and I think that's where rowing can be different greatly. If you're someone such as myself, that was a scar. Um, if you're in a sweeps boat, yeah, you're in a team you have. You can have two, four or eight people in your boat. So if you're in a team boat, it changes that dynamic up a bit. But when I was just rowing by myself, you don't have that motivation to go.
Speaker 2:I want to push him to be the best so that way he can compete even better in the next race, because at the end of the day, that person is going to be competing against you. Obviously, I want them to do well, I want them to practice hard, but I don't want them to be able to. I want them to practice hard, but I don't want them to be able to beat me Right. That's a good point and it created a very interesting dynamic within that because of that nature, of that competitiveness. We're on the same team because we were all rowed for the same boat club, we all had the same coach, we knew each other. We had all been rowing for years, so I had known these guys and girls for that I was rowing with on a daily basis for a couple of years. Most of them the serious, competitive people were were there every single year, like they, I I'd known some of them for four years. Uh, since I was a freshman in high school, I had been rowing with them.
Speaker 3:Um, were you able to give each other tips and things like that, cause I know for, like team wise, we'd always give each other tips there were some.
Speaker 2:I would give tips too. And they were the ones that were there for fun and they enjoyed the sport. They loved the sport but they were never going to be a true challenger to me. Height is a massive aspect in rowing. If you're tall, you have a great advantage over someone that's short. So there are a couple guys that were on the shorter side, easily six inches shorter than me, and that's a big disadvantage in rowing, that height difference. So they knew they could never beat me and because of that they didn't view me as their competition per se. They just viewed me as it's just someone oh, that's who I row with. That's a friend where the other people that were on my level absolutely hated me.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We did not get along. They didn't really get along with some of the other people that were on our level. A couple of them would, but it created almost a toxic culture in a way, and no one ever stepped in to try to correct that or fix that.
Speaker 3:Do you think they could have, or would it just hinder the competitiveness? That's what I'm asking.
Speaker 2:I don't know they should have stepped in absolutely, because there were things that certain people were doing and their behaviors and attitudes towards other people created an unbelievably toxic environment. It was no longer about the sport and the competitive nature of it, it was about just being a bully and being the worst human being you could be that day to demoralize that person. So you'd have that competitive advantage.
Speaker 3:Oh, I see so it wasn't actually athleticism. It was getting in the minds of individuals. Yes, and so they are rating people. So if I can't, beat you.
Speaker 2:I'm going to be an absolute ass to you.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:And some of them would do that and the coaches never really intervened. Now, they weren't always there to see it, but I honestly believe at least some of them, if not all of them, knew that was going on. I heard it from numerous people that were there that it was a problem. I knew it from people that were older than me that had the same complaints and people that were there after I was there that had the same complaints about that type of culture that was created in that rowing environment.
Speaker 1:Because of that, and it was generational when you're dealing with high schoolers- oh yeah, evening environment Because of that, and it was generational when you're dealing with high schoolers Even more so, even more so.
Speaker 2:So the older individuals, much better environment, at least within that. There's always the politics within a boat club, but it wasn't. I'm going to be an awful human being to you Because I can't beat you, and I being to you because I can't beat you and I want to try to manipulate you mentally so you don't do well today.
Speaker 3:Gotcha.
Speaker 1:With rowing, at least from my experience, it's very high adrenaline, high passion, sport, especially when you're in the middle of doing a sprint or in the middle of a race.
Speaker 1:It's very much so like high adrenaline and, to your point, about kind of the individuality within that. You know, you have your school, you have your singles, you have your doubles and you're all in competition with each other, even even though you're like on the same team, and to that point you know that's. You know, on the coach, like I was fortunate enough where we had a good culture, but it was still there there was still boat drama of like well, why are they in that seat? Why can't? Why do I have to be in the four versus this? Or even like like I remember being in like a girls four and like the guys double and the guys double was beating us and the girls were getting catty about I'm like well, granted, they were also new in the boat as well, like you said. So it's like you're gonna have that, but you should use that to to fuel yourselves, don't it come like? Don't complain.
Speaker 3:That's a huge difference between male and female sports. I think From my experience in soccer, we'll just like screaming at each other to pick it up right or anything. I don't know whatever ways they use to motivate each other. Scream at each other that you're sucking, yeah, like rah, rah, rah, yeah, you're messing up. You need to do better. They'll do better in that moment. If a female does that to a female, they're probably not going to respond very well to that.
Speaker 1:I get my head chewed off.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I feel like if I went, which was hard as a coxswain, because as a coxswain kind of reverting back to my rowing days I loved coxswain the boys for, versus that we rowed for. And it was easier because a coxswain's role is one to keep you guys safe on the water, because I'm driving the boat, yep Two, keep your pace. So, essentially, the coach tells me the race plan, he tells me the course and then I have to execute that race plan, because the only thing I want my rowers thinking about is how hard they should be pushing or where they're at. Would you, would you say? Would you say that's really what you want to know as a rower? Where are you and what do?
Speaker 2:you need Team boats such as a Ford, or when there's a Coxon, the only job of the people rowing is to row. There should be no other train of thought going through their mind at all, anything. It's the job of the Coxon to think about everything else. Where are we in position? What course are we going? How are we going? How to steer this? What pace are we at? Nothing else. It's the job of the cops to then tell them pick it up, slow it down, row harder, faster, whatever it is, and it's their job to just simply listen and execute what is said by that cops. And their job is simply to be a powerhouse, and that is it. There should be no other train of thought going through their head yeah, the engine.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's why I like motorsports and karting, because now I can, just I don't have an engine that yells at me, but but to that point it's very. You have to be very direct. It's a very for everyone's safety and efficiency and to be competitive. And girls in particular again, this is just, I'm not generalizing, you know, females but I think, and I think we've talked about this before.
Speaker 2:From our experience, it's very from our experience it's.
Speaker 1:We're very emotional beings. Guys are too, and it's good for guys to have emotions, but in terms of in the heat of competition, like girls have to feel good to play, guys have to guys play to feel good. That's just a psyche it's. It's something that's known. So if a girl's not having a good day, it's very hard to kind of get them to to switch it, and that was my job to get you into gear. Like it's when we're in the boat. It is a dictatorship. It is not a a um democracy. It's not a democracy. It's. It's not because that's and everyone had an opinion. When I got on the boys boat they were like okay yes, like let's do it, let's do it.
Speaker 2:No, and I experienced that because I would row, especially during the summers. I would row double sessions, um, so it was really three hours a day minimal. So there's hour and a half in the morning and then there's another hour and a half session right after that. But because I was one of the few that did the double session, if one of the sweeps groups either the girls or guys didn't have a coxswain because occasionally the coxswain would show up for some bizarre reason they take me and throw me in the boat as the coxswain and the girls hated me. Girls hated me.
Speaker 2:The guys were fine with me because I they wanted to say what was going on and I wouldn't listen to them and I would yell at them and motivate them the way. I was taught how to do that, which is actually from my sister. But she entered the sport and when the group of people that she was from she was there was only girls that she or she was one of two girls in her group. Everyone else was guys, and so the coach, who had only really ever coached guys at an extreme competitive level, just treated them both as if they were the same way, there's no difference in how you coach them, motivate them, anything, and so that's what my sister got accustomed to. And so then when I would step into that, because I would row or erg or something with my sister, she'd yelp me that way.
Speaker 2:And I was like yeah, this is what you do as a coxswain, this is how you motivate them, and they did not like me for that yeah, it kind of goes hand in hand with coaching, right.
Speaker 3:And so females, from what I see, even like on on my team, you have to know specifically what motivates them or else it's not going to work. No, so like some, some players I can scream at and be like, hey, pick it up, let's go like you're like you know what you're doing. Like let's look like some of the older kids, stuff like that. Then I'm not going to be able to do the same thing to a freshman who just walked on the team. It's like first week in the program. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:To your point. That was my part of my issue is this I don't know them well enough to know how to properly motivate them. I know how. I hear other coxswains yelling at me, but men aren't like that.
Speaker 3:That's what my also think. My thing is you can just motivate someone like, hey, pick it up, let's go. Like, let's do it. They're like hey, cool, yeah, I'll pick it up, I'll do it, I was go score, let's go score a goal. After that, females like, if you get them down and they're down, they're in the dumps they're not gonna play, they're not gonna perform, they're not gonna do their best. It's good, it gets to be a whole huge thing. Then you have to step aside and be like all right, now, let's find a way to motivate.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it's definitely if we like a little nature nurture. I think part of it is definitely like nurture. You know, what were you like? What cult I think can be a culture thing. But I think also sometimes it's just like a neat, like intrinsic drive, and it's like all right, how do I? How do I dial this back? I like sometimes it's hard to be like, well, you shouldn't be dialing it back. You should be like, if you're competitive and driven, sometimes that's not always positively received. That's in sports, that's in the professional realm. Like, if you want to be an animal and like, go after it, it's like, oh, okay, oh, you're a. It's sometimes it's very ill perceived, which is a shame. Like it, it shouldn't be that way.
Speaker 3:Well, I think it goes into motivation of like other people, right. So if you're doing well and you're in your career field and you're doing well whatever sales wise right, so you're at the top producer. You're doing well, whatever sales wise right, so you're at the top producer. You're giving a ton of benefits to the company. Things like that and other people around you are like trying to get at your job or the next promotions. You're going hand in hand with the next person and maybe something to like how you motivate yourself. It's going to be different from how someone else is motivated, but like it. You shouldn't be put against each other to find those promotions in like the workforce. I think that's one of the weirdest things about like promotions and things like that is putting people against each other in your own company.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. Such a weird complexity to me, like I can't really rationalize that concept because it's so hard.
Speaker 2:And it's a thing that happens all the time in almost every sales organization.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was gonna ask you kind of touch on this. How did you kind of translate, because you're super competitive in rowing like, how does that in sales is a is a doggy dog world. How can you elaborate on that a little bit?
Speaker 2:yeah. So for me and I think rowing actually really helped with that especially more so sculling, because in order to you don't have a team. Necessarily, when you're in a race supporting you, motivating you, encouraging you to push harder, it's all your own internal competition and motivation to drive you forward. But the same thing goes into sales. You're not going to your manager's not going to sit by your side and hold your hand and go you can do this, you can get this. No, they're not going to do. Your manager's not going to sit by your side and hold your hand and go you can do this, you can get this. No, they're not going to do, they don't have the time to do that. Sure, when you're first starting out, they'll lend a hand and help you out from time to time, but they can't hold your hand.
Speaker 2:So you have to have your own internal motivation, competitiveness and that competitive nature, not necessarily to beat everyone else on the sales team, but more so to beat yourself. Okay, you know what that? The last four cold calls I made I got hung up on. I got to know how do I motivate myself? How do I find that competitiveness to? How do I motivate myself? How do I find that competitiveness to get a yes the next time.
Speaker 2:And it comes into an element of self-analyst too, like where did I go wrong? How can I correct what I've done here? Was it I didn't know enough about the organization, the individual? My pitch wasn't tailored correctly to who I was in front of, or is it? You just need to keep trying harder? It's not that sometimes it's just a matter of numbers and sales, um, especially when it comes to cold calling it, it's, um, it's a numbers game as well. Um, so that has very much so helped me, like that rowing aspect being from the sculling, finding, building that own internal motivation and drive and competitiveness for myself, because a lot of times it is about beating yourself in a row and you have your time, you know you're, you know how long it takes you to row a 2k, can you beat your 2k time? Can you beat that 5k time? Whatever it is, and that has definitely played a role throughout the rest of my life and motivating myself through work, through sales, whatever it has been to find that drive and motivation for myself is played a huge role.
Speaker 1:Oh, a hundred percent and I would. I feel like there's even a parallel going, playing off of that rowing and sales environment parallel is it's very much a you versus you environment. Even though you have a whole bunch of other sales reps, you want to be the one that has the most sales, absolutely the most. And they don't hide that information, no, they make it a competition.
Speaker 2:Oftentimes they update it daily, like it oftentimes it's. They update it daily, weekly, whatever it is. I can go on at any point. A lot of places. You can just go on and pull up all the sales numbers from your team across the country, whatever it is one of the one of my jobs. My first job out of college was in sales, for the company was international. I I could look at where I was sales-wise within my own team within the state of Massachusetts, within the Northeast, within the US and internationally. They did not hide any of it. They brought it up in every single meeting, every monthly meeting, those numbers were shown.
Speaker 3:Which is so weird, because not every career is like that 100%. So in my realm, military-wise, they're not necessarily like that. There is competitiveness between females, stuff like that.
Speaker 1:I think we talked a little bit about how sometimes females just get more competitive against each against each other, that sort of thing, that complexity, sizing each other up, I mean I, I'm totally guilty of that like of another, even just like another, like tech, just being like, like um, like I'll give a perfect example of, because in most, most of it is, whenever I feel like there is a kind of that toxicity, whether it's in the boat club, in the store, in the unit, it's usually from someone's own insecurities.
Speaker 1:And I'll say that like um, like for myself, like when we started to get some on board, some newer technicians and who had, like master's degrees, had a little bit more experience in different areas than I did, I was 100 sizing them up, like it wasn't like there's no competition, especially like in research, like oh, who's gonna write the most papers. But it was definitely where I had to check myself because I'm like I'm 100% sizing up the new tech. I'm like, all right, he's got a master's degree, they got a, they're good with X, y and Z. And it really was toxic on my mind to where I was like, all right, I got to check myself. I'm like, what are they doing good that? What are they doing good that I can take from?
Speaker 3:That's what I was going to bring up was like using that motivation, Like, so, everything in life which you take from other people and you utilize it for something else. You know, like I take parts and pieces of 500 podcasts that I've ever watched in my life and I'm sure half of this is spewed out from them or like my mother or my father or you guys, or you know other friends, things like that you take pieces of information that you've gained from others and create your own we talked about this last episode, which is kind of funny um, to create that own, uh, your own motivation, own tools to move forward, Right? So I think, when it comes to motivation and like toxic work environments and things like that, the way to mitigate that and to create a positive, um, competitive edge would be, you know, helping other people like oh, this is what made it easier for me here, I'm going to make it, so it's a little bit easier for you, but that also will help the unit in return, right?
Speaker 3:So if you're learning it quicker we're going to get to success quicker. Your realm of the world that's not going to necessarily help you, because someone else having a tool that you have that would be quicker would be hindering your sales, right? So it's going to be completely different worlds, but I think that's important to know the differences in motivation, right. So your motivation is like being a top producer, being a sales, so you have to do it alone. You have to do these things to produce for you.
Speaker 2:And not necessarily Some places. When one of the jobs I've had at a company first start off, you could tell it was that dog eat dog. It was.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to help anyone else, but the reality of it was is I had my own segment, you had your own segment, you had your own segment, so it was all broken up. We were all on the same team. We're all still trying to do the exact same thing, but the reality of it is is I had my area of specialties within that and everyone else did, and so I very quickly noticed art, the brand new director that they'd recently brought in, realized that, with me also being brand new, he had an opportunity to use me to reshape that team and was asking me to do certain things like hey, no, I, I need you to share X, y, y and z resource and share this and do this and this. And it started making it less about I'm gonna compete against everyone else in my team and it came more of like oh, wait a minute. If we all stick within our own segments and areas, we can all win.
Speaker 2:We can all win and oh, if I find x, but this is in your set, this is more meant for you, this lead is more in line with your area, instead of keeping that to myself Because technically I could keep that to myself Right and potentially steal a sale from them In some situations if they couldn't get the sale in time, if they couldn't find the correct candidate, because I was in staffing when I first got out. I started off in staffing and then was actually in new business development for a bit with that company. It was. There was that change and all of a sudden people were sharing more and more candidates and more and more releases.
Speaker 3:So you can still create that environment. Even within that sales it started to come a little bit more positive.
Speaker 3:Well, that is cool, though that's an interesting complexity they bring up uh along the lines of, you know, still having that competitive edge and wanting to succeed for yourself, but also having the ability to share things with your co-workers and not fear that you're going to lose your job or a certain thing. Promotion X, y, z, some reward because you're sharing that information, because then in return they'll also give you the extra lead that they have that might be better suited for you.
Speaker 2:And honestly, I think if you were going to reshape sales and make it better, you'd reshape it that way. It's like, hey, there's still absolutely an element of I am competing against the lone people in my team. So a lot of sales cultures. It's very easy for it to come toxic because it's you are my enemy, you are my competition, when in reality it should be. We work for the same company, we're on the same team. You should be a resource as well and not just an enemy per se. That, I think, is something that a lot of places can struggle with within sales is that aspect of you've created a very toxic culture in which everybody is your competition there instead of you're also my resources and your people I can turn to for help closing this sale.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Cause, if your department's not performing well, if the people on your team are not doing well, that doesn't that also looks bad on you to a degree as well? You might be doing good individually, but if the whole team and department something's going to change at some point and you don't know how that change could impact you.
Speaker 1:It's going to affect your lead flow, like if you're not doing good.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and that's another big thing is for us. We had people that were if you're in business development, your job is to get the leads, that then the people in finding the candidates that would then identify the candidates, interview the candidates, sell the people finding the candidates that would then identify the candidates, interview the candidates, sell the candidates on the opportunity and then you'd have to sell that candidate to the person that had that lead. They turn around and sell that candidate to the company. So if there's bad blood between me and the person that gets the leads, or me and the person that's now getting finding me the candidates, that's going to create problems all around and that type of toxic sales culture is not going to help anybody.
Speaker 1:Well, think about it in the. I know we just got finished watching owning Manhattan with Ryan Serhant and you see how all those real estate agents and brokers work like because it's a show and there's drama. But like in one scene these two agents are like fighting and going at it. In the next scene they're doing a deal because they know I can't have any bad blood there. You have to be professional.
Speaker 2:Today I might be competing for and that only man. Imagine today I'm competing for this $20 million listing, but tomorrow I'm going to have the buyer for your $20 million listing, whatever it is, or you're going to have it for me or whatever. And if there's this bad blood between the two of you, then neither of you are going to want to work together to make that deal happen. And if you don't want to work with someone to make that deal happen, you're not going to put your best foot forward, Even like that subconscious thought, even if you, with all intentions, are like, yeah, I'm going to do this to the best of my ability. If there's that element of like I hate this person, I want them to fail.
Speaker 3:Are you just going to stop the deal from happening and then no one gets paid? No one's happy.
Speaker 2:You're not going to try to drive that deal forward as best as you could, if you realize, if you actually have a positive working relationship with the other person.
Speaker 1:Competition with class Reputation is so important, whether that's in the sport realm or whether it's in the in the professional realm how you present yourself and go forward. If they know, oh, this person's a killer, they will get the job done, they are reliable. It's almost like knowing when to turn that intensity on and off, like on the field, like I'm a psycho. When I'm running the bases, I'm like hitting my helmet like rah rah, like I'm very much a psycho you're not necessarily turning it on and off, knowing how to dial it down dial it down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like no end of the day I'm still gonna kick your ass, no matter what.
Speaker 3:Or just change it so it's healthy. I think that's a different perspective of it. Okay, it doesn't have to be something that you'd necessarily turn down or dial down or anything like that, but it's like having the mindset of keeping the humanity to it and knowing person to person, like, at the end of the day, we're all still people.
Speaker 3:End of the day, we're all still people. If I walk into the office and I'm terrified, um, of how people are going to act, if based on a toxic uh, competitive psych like environment, you know, then I'm going to have that much of a detrimental life outside because all of that's going to bleed into every part of my life and it does, yeah, absolutely, because I saw it firsthand of.
Speaker 2:I had coworkers that did not want to come into work, or when certain people did come into work, I could instantly tell the change in behavior, attitude, their mood. You could tell there was like this palpable, like change in the air of, just like everyone was on edge when a couple, certain individuals would come in, and exactly that negativity bleeds into every other aspect of your life outside of work absolutely and if you can create a positive motivation, competitive edge.
Speaker 3:Why not do it that way where we? Talk about being a resource to other people, helping helping hand when you can, or like making someone's life just a tiny bit easier, because in return, someone else is probably going to do the same for you.
Speaker 3:And if you have that confidence in the people around you, you're going to be that much better of a producer that much better in success and whatever realm of work that you're doing, anything it could be a friendship, it could be professional, it could be professional, it could be sports. Whatever it is, it doesn't matter. It's the humanity that you bring to the situation and keeping a healthy competitive environment versus the toxicity that you find in a lot of things when it's a lot of self-centeredness around all that, 100 being competitive but humble yes guys, this was such a good talk.
Speaker 1:Noah, thank you so much for coming on. Elena, thank you. We'll catch you guys next time on the beyond the cleats podcast.
