Building a Premium Non-Alcoholic Spirits Brand with David Fudge, Co-Founder & CEO of Aplós

In this episode of Shopify Happy Hour, Dan sits down with David Fudge, co-founder and CEO of Aplós, a brand redefining non-alcoholic spirits and cocktails.

David shares the journey behind Aplós, from the art of mixology to crafting functional beverages that don’t compromise on flavor or experience. He dives into the growing demand for premium non-alcoholic options, why consumers are shifting habits, and how Aplos is positioning itself in this evolving market.

We also explore the challenges of building a beverage brand, including:
✅ Balancing D2C and retail—how Aplos approaches distribution.
✅ Marketing in a competitive space—strategies that work (and don’t).
✅ Post-purchase experience—why customer connection is key.
✅ Authenticity in branding—what makes a brand truly stand out.

If you're in DTC, retail, or just love learning from brand builders, this episode is packed with valuable insights on creating a premium product and scaling a brand the right way.

Brands mentioned:

• Aplós
• Lesse
• Adgile Media Group
• Mixology Masterclass
• Lynnette Marrero
• The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks
• Barney’s

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Aplos and Non-Alcoholic Spirits
01:15 Exploring Aplos Cocktails and Their Unique Ingredients
09:05 The Role of a Master Mixologist in Non-Alcoholic Beverages
14:29 Balancing Flavor and Functionality in Non-Alcoholic Spirits
18:34 Consumer Demand for Non-Alcoholic Options
24:44 The Distinction Between Canned Cocktails and Bottled Spirits
28:35 The Effects of Non-Alcoholic Spirits
30:03 The Inspiration Behind Aplos
34:43 Building a Brand: Early Strategies
39:13 Influencer Marketing and Authenticity
42:39 Marketing Strategies: Hits and Misses
47:30 D2C vs Retail: Growth Strategies
52:03 Connecting with Customers: The Personal Touch
56:08 Rapid Fire Insights

Transcript

Dan (00:01)
Welcome to the Shopify happy hour on the show. You'll hear from Shopify founders, operators, and experts on growth marketing strategies, lessons learned from the trenches and other nuggets of e-commerce wisdom shared over a different drink each episode. Today, I'd like to welcome David Fudge, co-founder and CEO of Aplos, which creates functional non-alcoholic spirits and cocktails. David, welcome.

David Fudge (00:27)
Thanks for having me, Dan.

Dan (00:29)
Thanks much for joining. I'm excited to dive into these beverages. well, first of all, know, it's, it's tail end of winter time. Sounds like you're down in Florida. How's the weather down there? How's everything going?

David Fudge (00:41)
I can't complain. It's peak weather season in Miami. It's like 70 degrees and breezy and beautiful. I have a view of the water right outside my window here. Can't complain.

Dan (00:50)
Nice.

living the life,

ready to kick back some NA spirits. This is perfect. Yeah, it's a cold rainy day here in Wilmington, North Carolina. So it's great because I've got two different beverages. One is gonna be cool and one, I went off one of the recipes on your site. So we got like a hot beverage to warm up. So maybe let's get started because...

David Fudge (00:58)
Yeah.

Nice.

Dan (01:15)
Let's just talk about what we're drinking here. So maybe we can start with the spritzes. So you've got one flavor, I've got a different one. I've got the cola fashioned. Maybe if you can just talk about what these canned beverages are and then we can talk about more of the bot, the spirits. But maybe we talk about the canned beverages. What's in them? What are they all about?

David Fudge (01:30)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Well, we actually started with the spirits, you the vision of Aplos

a global premium NA spirit brand. so our cocktails are made with our spirits. And so they're non-proxy, meaning they're not mimicking tequila vodka gin, but they sort of take the, the complexity, sophistication, and sort of the building blocks of what it takes to make a traditional alcoholic spirit so that it creates a unique but familiar flavor profile that can stand up as the lead spirit in a cocktail. So last year we introduced

the cocktails and we introduce four across the year and so we have kind of two lanes of spirits because we're functional and we drink for two main reasons we're either stressed or we want to have fun and there's different effects we want in those occasions that's why we have two lanes of spirits and so the cola fashion that you're about to try is made with Aplosa Rise which is our social spirit that

infused with adaptogens that are serotonin boosting. So you have things like something called L-choline, but tartrate, moringa extract, vitamin B12, vitamin D, ginseng. And so it sort of gives you this kind of upper effect without having a heavy dose of caffeine in it. There's no caffeine in it. And the cola passion is really our take on

you know, sort of a darker alcohol cocktail. Originally, it's funny, we started out the concept of doing a mule and then it sort of evolved into something that we really loved that is made with a cola nut extract. And so that's why it's called a cola fashion. And a cola nut is actually the original flavor of cola, Coca-Cola. And so...

I'm curious when you taste it, I want to tell you kind of what I think of when I taste it. But this one is, I would say a little bit more fall and winter like in the flavor profile.

Dan (03:47)
Well, that's all I need to have a sip. So, cheers, thanks for joining.

David Fudge (03:51)
Cheers.

Dan (03:57)
That's nice. That's super nice. So it's interesting because I'm picking up some of those almost.

David Fudge (04:01)
Yeah.

Dan (04:05)
like heavier cola notes, but then at the end I'm almost getting like a little bit of gin where it's like super clean and refreshing. So it's really, it's cool. It's pretty complex. There's a, you know, it's got those cola notes almost like a little bit of that smoky bourbony stuff, but with a grassy gin type of finish. So super clean and really light and really nice. That's super tasty.

David Fudge (04:11)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. For me, when I originally tasted this one, it sort of, it kind of reminded me a bit of a nostalgic take on like, honestly, a Jack and Coke a bit. It's a much more elevated take on that type of cocktail, which maybe, you know, I drank a bit more when I was in college.

Yeah, so that's kind of what we're trying to do with our cocktails is take something that feels familiar and really elevate it with an ingredient that feels unique to us. So we do that with the Cola nut. And I actually have in front of me the Ume Spritz. And so a Spritz is obviously kind of a traditional alcoholic drink, depending on what you're drinking. It could be an Aperol Spritz. could be any number of Spritz. And then an Ume is Japanese plum. Tastes a little bit like a cherry. And so...

This one is actually made with Aplos Ease, which is our relax and wine spirit that was formulated for those moments, kind of those transition moments from work to play. So think of like the end of a work day when you're like, I need a drink or think of like a wine occasion where you want to relax. It's not necessarily about getting hyped up or being social or going out. Right. And so ease is made with a lion's mane, extract, magnesium, and a sunthine, which is really just a more bio.

available version of HealthEating. And so that's what our roommate spritz is. And this is my personal favorite, I have to say.

Dan (06:08)
That's awesome.

Well, I will say that I was not expecting a canned cocktail to taste as good as this is. So even though there's no alcohol, it is definitely elevated. That's a nice way to describe it because the flavor profile is definitely more complex. I can see the sort of spin off of the Jack and Coke where there some of those notes, but this is super tasty.

David Fudge (06:33)
Yeah, thank you. I mean, I think part of the secret sauce behind Aplos is really our master mixologist, this woman named Lynette Moreiro, who...

has spent her entire career in the industry, has decades of experience buying the bars. She did the masterclass for mixology on masterclass.com. She knows her stuff when it comes to this. And so our approach with Aplos is we really want to understand and respect the history and heritage of great cocktail making, but create something new that's additive, that's not taking away from the alcohol.

experience, but really taking everything we love about it, everything we love about a cocktail, but it is, it doesn't have alcohol. And so it's a healthier buzz without compromise. And that's really our purge. So with these cocktails, it was really a time for Lynette to shine and say, you know, these are the flavors that I'm really enjoying playing with. And she also helped us build the building blocks of the spirits as well, in order to get the depth and length and complexity required to really carry.

a cocktail. And so, you know, with things like the Cola now with the Ume, funny story about the Ume is, you know, I early on with Aplos Calm and Ease, one of my favorite drinks was

was a sparkling strawberry juice mixed with Aplo's calm. And we were in a session thinking of ideas for cocktails and I just jokingly said like, I just really love this. Can we make something like this? And so she brought out some other kind of concepts and said, well, have you ever tried to ume? Like, what if we sort of had our own spin on this and like this sort of.

has that same essence, but it feels much more elevated and unique. And that's really sort of how we came to this idea of Hoomy Spritz. But, know, the magic behind sort of the complexity of the cocktails that we have, which obviously I'm biased, but I think in the category like we...

do a really great job of bringing that complexity that you expect in a cocktail where it's not directly one-to-one mimicking anything. That two-kid sauce really comes from her and her expertise and decades of experience.

Dan (09:05)
So how do you get one of the world's best mixologists to come on board and say, we want you to build all of these super cool canned beverages and cocktails and build this whole, let's say menu of the different flavor profiles, but there's not gonna be any alcohol in it. How do you go about that?

David Fudge (09:17)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, as a founder who doesn't come from beverage before this, right? Like I've my whole career building consumer brands and I was actually in fashion before this. And so I've never been a big drinker. was always curious about wanting something that felt as elevated as a great traditional cocktail, but didn't have the alcohol. And so when my co-founder and I were talking about this idea and thinking about...

what we were going to do or what we wanted to do. We knew that we needed to surround ourselves with experts in the industry who really understood the industry, but also really what it took to make a great cocktail. So, you know, I spoke to hundreds of bartenders before we were even developing the product. Like, what do you like? What do you like working with? There were some brands out at the time, you know, only a couple really. And what are consumers asking for?

Do they ask for no no? What are they asking for? What are people like? And you know, so that was part of the research process of us trying to understand the industry and the consumer needs around this type of product. And then we knew we needed someone alongside us. Like with any business, the product has to be.

come first in my view. Like if you don't have a great product, you have nothing, right? And so the product is paramount. And so a lot of people in the industry will talk about liquid excellence. And that's something that we really strive for. And I interviewed probably a dozen of the best mixologist in the country before we were developing the product and launching really early stage. Lynette was one of them. And we just really hit it off. She's incredibly entrepreneurial.

You know, I think she really resonated with what not only what we were trying to do with the product but with the brand itself and Initially we brought her on as a consultant and said hey, do you want to help us with this? Yeah, actually we brought her on I think probably six months before her master class launched on masterclass.com and so the timing really Was that contagious for us?

And yeah, she just loved what we were doing. then before we launched, actually invested in the brand. You know, we raised another round and she invested even more in the business. so as someone who has been behind the bar for so long, I think she is really felt like there was an opportunity and that some of the other products that had come out didn't really.

she couldn't work with them the way that she wanted to work with them and really understanding the layers and the ingredients, foundational ingredients of what it takes to make a great cocktail. She felt like she had a point of view there and so was excited to build this alongside of us. And so I think we got fortunate, but she also just really resonated with what we were trying to build.

and she's super entrepreneurial, so she's still very involved to this day.

Dan (12:43)
Well, that's working because, so I do appreciate, you know, really good cocktails, beer, good wine, and...

asking a mixologist to make something, I'm often leaning on them to guide the direction. So they'll ask for flavor profiles that I like, and I'll give them some guidance and say, make something that you think would match this to kind of, one, just do something different, but also they're artists, know, good mixologists are very talented, skilled people, and I like to see them work, and I like to see what they can come up with. But to do that without any alcohol, I figure might be a challenge for some mixologists because it's a completely different game. But...

David Fudge (12:59)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Dan (13:23)
Yeah, you guys have nailed that because the elevatedness of the cocktail or of the mocktail we could say in this case definitely shines through. So question for you because, know, it's not just, it seems like to me the challenge wouldn't just be how do you make a really good non-alcoholic beverage, but also because you're adding these functional ingredients into it. What is...

David Fudge (13:49)
Yeah.

Dan (13:51)
You know, I haven't done this before. the art. I imagine there are some tastes that comes with that, right? If you're adding mushroom to a drink, I imagine that will affect the flavor profile. If you're adding some hemp product to it, I imagine that's going to affect the flavor profile. So what was that process like where you said, okay, we've got these, you know, you're working collaboratively. It sounds like we're okay. We to come up with this idea for this type of spirit, but how do you, guess, isolate the ingredients that are going to add the function to.

beverage and then match that to make sure that the flavor profile also works.

David Fudge (14:23)
Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that you are exactly right earlier when you said there's really an art to it. And I always felt that as well. Right. It's like cooking. is an art and a science to it. And you have to really be able to balance both of those things to create something that's great that we love. Right. And so particularly when you're developing a product like ours, can, Lynette can make an amazing tasting cocktail behind the bar, but to create something that is commercially viable.

and shelf stable is a whole different skill set. And so we also have a technical formulator who comes from a really robust background at one of the largest beverage alcohol companies in the world, spent over a decade there, who really is the one that understands and really brings all of the ingredients together and understands how they can sort of work together in a symphony to create the result that Lynette.

It's not easy. You know, I would say when we started, our first spirit was Aplose Calm, which is a relaxed unwind spirit infused with a broad spectrum hemp. Now, hemp emulsions and extracts five years ago or more, very, very strong in the flavor. The technology has gotten much better where they're much more odorless, tasteless now.

how they're extracted and emulsified. But at the time, they were really a strong component of the flavor profile that you had to work around.

And so that we knew was, it's about working with it, not working against it. And so once you determine, you know, here's kind of the, here's the value proposition of this product and when people are going to drink it and the experience that we think they're going to want or what we're going to want, to be honest, which is how we thought about it.

Here's what we want to feel like when we're drinking this. And then we say, okay, what plant-based functional ingredients will support that functional benefit? And so we tested hundreds of...

functional ingredients over the years and a combination of many in order to really dial in which ones we think are going to be most effective. And so once you identify which ones are in the spirit, then you really have to understand is there a flavor or an odor or viscosity even to those and how do you work with that to achieve the result that you want? And so it does get a little bit technical. You know, I think it starts with a creative concept and a

positioning and here's what we want the product to feel like, to taste like, and what we want the experience to be like. And then it's a very kind of multi-step nuance process from there to figure out, you know, getting to what we call a gold standard liquid and then translating that gold standard liquid into a commercialized product while maintaining the integrity of the flavor, but also the ingredient requirements that we have as a business. And so it gets very technical.

and I've learned so much about it and I find that really fun but it really is like the mix of art and science that is so key because there are so many people that are great at the science but they don't have that extra you know 10 percent of which I think is what cooking and great cocktail making is right it's that creativity it's the art behind it that really makes the magic that make people want to keep coming back.

Dan (18:08)
Yeah, there's the taste complexity and the art and science of that or technical aspect of that, but then adding not just one functional ingredient, but also several, that's, yeah, that to me would be a challenge. So good for you for taking that on and tackling that and offering more beverage options for people who want something other than an alcoholic drink, because the industry is definitely growing a lot, right? I think a lot of people are...

David Fudge (18:33)
Yeah.

Dan (18:34)
still appreciate alcohol but want to slow down a little bit because you know the next day isn't always so fun so there's been a lot more of an uptick in the NA space.

David Fudge (18:41)
Yeah.

Dan (18:44)
both for just, you know, pure mocktails where there's just nothing functional in there. They're just ingredients and they taste really good. But then there seems to be also a pretty big uptick in people looking for some type of effect, whether it's relaxation or focus through a food or beverage product. So can you talk about what you've seen from when you've launched Aplos to now? What has that trajectory looked like in terms of the consumer demand that you're seeing?

Like what are, how is it different now versus years ago when you first launched? Like what are consumers saying? What are you hearing? And what are you seeing in terms of the appetite for these types of products?

David Fudge (19:16)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think the consumer has been there for a while. I think it's taken the industry and the, you know, the rest of the system of the drinks industry to longer to catch up. Right. And so we launched in December, 2020, kind of at the height of COVID.

which you would think maybe isn't the best time to launch, but when COVID hit, a lot of people developed a cocktail habit or a wine habit and people actually were drinking more. And I think it sort of had this effect where people were starting to realize that wasn't sustainable and they were looking for options to moderate their drinking. And so the timing.

works in our favor in that sense. And so we did in the first year double what we thought we were gonna do. My co-founder and I met at Bonobos, the menswear brand where we helped build that brand, you know, to...

you know, a successful ultimate successful exit with the management team there. and I love ecom and the digital space because you can have that one-to-one relationship with the consumer and you can get feedback really quickly. You can, you know, understand kind of the core unit economics of the business really quickly. Like what is the repeat rate? What is the lifetime value? How much does it cost for me to acquire a customer?

and all of those things really quickly. That was what the first year was about for us, understanding kind of the core of UN economics of the business, dialing in the product, getting customer feedback, really adjusting based on what we learned, to be honest. And so early on, we were surprised by the demand, and I would say the surprises continue.

What was more difficult in the early couple of years was getting the traditional kind of on and off trade on board. And so going to bars and restaurants and hotels to bar directors to try and get on menu, when a lot of people were not super interested, you know, the, the, the drinks industry and the gatekeepers of that industry, lot of the bar directors weren't super keen on, on out.

a few years ago, and even retailers, Where some of them were like, where do we even put this? You know? And so that I would say has really changed in the last year. Whereas now you're seeing major hospitality groups, pretty much every restaurant in major cities building out their non-alcohol cocktail programs. And the major retailers start to build out their sets in our category, right? And so.

you know, that has really shifted in a palpable way. We just closed January, which was by far our biggest month ever. We shipped 10 times the units we shipped a year ago, January, and we launched recently in a couple of national retailers and are overperforming in those as well. And so it's been an acceleration, I would say, in demand.

And it's exciting to be a part of building an industry, right? Whereas in other businesses and startups I've been a part of, they've been mature industries where you've really had to carve out market share. Now we are.

you know, building a category alongside so many great brands. And I know many of the founders in the space and it's a really great community, right? Where we all have strong visions. And I believe with any business, you really have to be convicted in vision, but valuable in strategy based on what you learn along the way.

and it's been really fun, but the demand has absolutely increased, I would say exponentially, particularly in the last year.

Dan (23:42)
That's awesome. Well, 10Xing year over year is pretty amazing. I know dry January, I'm sure assisted with that, but it's a super nice movement because it just gives people a break to kind of reset if they're gonna do it or if people are doing damp January. read that there's like five different versions of going dry in January, but either way, I think for people to be more mindful about what they're consuming is a great thing. And the more options we have, the better.

David Fudge (23:51)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Dan (24:09)
you know, most restaurants I go to now if we're going out to dinner is.

there are mocktail options. There are more than one non-alcoholic beer option, which always was like a pretty bad beer option. And now there's a lot more in the space. yeah, hopefully that just continues because it's better for everybody because you know, some people just don't drink alcohol or want to take a night off or want to have a different type of effect through hemp or THC or some other type of functional ingredients.

David Fudge (24:20)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Dan (24:44)
And speaking of which, so you've got the line of canned beverages, canned cocktails, and you also have the bottled spirits and the packaging on all of that is excellent. mean, the bottled spirits, those could look fantastic on anybody's whiskey shell for a whiskey bar. You know, they're, very much look like, uh,

David Fudge (24:54)
Yeah.

Dan (25:06)
high end spirit bottles. excellent work there. And I took one of the recipes off of the site, the apres ski. And this is basically hot water, lemon juice, honey, and the calm, the calm version and super nice recipe. It's a really nice way to warm up. And yeah, it's a really nice, it's quite different than the can beverages, right? The can beverages are much more like,

David Fudge (25:22)
Yeah.

Dan (25:35)
mimicking a cocktail and this one probably just because it's a warmer beverage is quite different but still really, really nice. So what would you say would be the effect from, because it sounds like there's the two different, there's the canned spirits and then you've got the bottled spirits, but then you also have the versions that are meant to help people relax or wind down and the others that are.

David Fudge (25:42)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Dan (25:59)
designed to get people a little more focused or energetic. So what sort of effect could people expect from either of these types of beverages?

David Fudge (26:10)
Sure. Yeah. So, you know, we drink because we're either stressed or we want to have fun. Right. And so those are kind of the two main occasions for drinking. And so that's why we have these kind of two lanes of spirits. Our first spirit was Appalo's Calm, which is infused with the broad spectrum hemp. We have sort of a sister spirit to that called Appalo's Ease, which is infused with the lion's mane magnesium and sunthine.

So gives you that kind of relaxed and unwind effect without the hemp. And then Apollos Arise is adaptogen infused serotonin boosting to its more social. And it's got sort of a spikier, more savory flavor profile, sort of more akin to a tequila. And so whereas Ease and Calm are more herbaceous, they are more gin-like. And that was intentional. We wanted them to feel familiar, but new. Again, we're leveraging.

kind of the heritage and history of great cocktail making. So we want bartenders to taste these and really understand how to play with the flavors and the nuances of them. When it comes to the effect, I will say these things affect everyone differently. It's just like alcohol and caffeine, right? Some people can't really drink caffeine. Some people can have one glass of coffee and or one cup of coffee and be wired, right? Same with alcohol.

you can have some people can have one glass and feel a little buzz. Some people it takes three glasses. It depends on so many factors. Your genetic makeup, your age, if you slept well, what you ate that day. And so I will say it affects everyone differently, but all of our products are essentially to use, you know, borrow a term micro dosing, right? And so we design them to be layerable, so or sessionable. And so you can have one or two or three drinks.

and see what the effect is over time. We're not using anything that's harmful, that's gonna get you in an experience that you don't feel in control. It's not exactly like feeling drunk, right? It is a different experience. But, you know, I'm someone with fairly fast metabolism and any medicine I feel very quickly.

And so, you know, when I have my wisdom teeth taken out, I think I was asleep for most of the day from the medicine they put me out with. So like, I always feel calm and ease on the first drink, but some people it takes two or three drinks, right? And so it really depends on the person, but with calm and ease, you're going to feel a relaxation, sort of a...

you know, a general calming effect. And with Arise, it's gonna, you know, I drink Arise as sort of a pregame thing when I'm going out.

friends. And so I like to drink it neat. I sip it chilled. And you know, because with alcohol, I often like to sip a great tequila, neat, chilled. And so I'm the same with our spirits as well. And I always have one before I go out to meet friends because it sort of gets me in more of a social mood.

and I do feel a bit of a warmness in my head as well. And so the effect is different for everyone. So you really have to experiment and play with it to figure out what works for you.

Dan (29:48)
Love it. Well, I started with the cola fashioned to get my focus up a little bit. Now I moved to the calm to chill, but this is the perfect up and down moment. So let's transition a little bit to kind of your journey. So tell us about how and why you started Aplos. Where did the idea come from? And how did you get it started?

David Fudge (29:57)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I've never been a big drinker. So I grew up in the South. I went to a big state school, lot of tailgating, partying, frat parties, drinking. And I've always been known as the person who didn't drink a ton in my friend group. spent over a decade in New York after college and you know, that experience post work.

of going to a great cocktail bar. know, New York is a kind of more serendipitous city where you can text someone and say, hey, meet me for a drink here. It's harder to do in Miami where I am now, but there it was very common, right? And going to a great bar. I was recently in New York at the Swan Room in downtown Manhattan and such a beautiful bar and the experience of someone making you a drink where

you know, you read something on a cocktail menu, it sounds delicious, they make it in front of you, and you watch them, it's like, you know, they're making a potion for you, and then they present it in front of you in a glass, and they garnish it. It always felt to me like a small luxury. You know, it's like an affordable luxury where you can treat yourself, and even when I was in my 20s, you know, loved that experience, but when you ask for something not an elk,

You know, I noticed there weren't really options. They would, some bartenders would sort of roll their eyes and be annoyed. They would offer you a soda. some would assume you had a drinking problem. And to me, it felt like there's an opportunity here. I don't feel included in this experience. And I don't think I'm the only person who maybe doesn't want to drink on a Tuesday night because they have a workout class in the morning or whatever reason it is you don't want to drink.

Right. And so I felt that there was a really big opportunity to elevate the non-alcoholic experience to the same level of craft and detail and care and quality that you get in the world's best, great traditional cocktails. So that was one piece. The second piece we lean into is, like I said, I believe we drink because we either stressed or we want to have fun. And so nobody likes staying over, but we like the way it makes us feel in the moment.

So if you can get people a healthier buzz without compromising, I always felt like I was barring tomorrow's happiness for today when I would drink alcohol too much.

And if you can take that part out, but still give people everything they love about drinking, who wouldn't say yes to that? So I was really intrigued by that idea. And pre-COVID, I was a part of a startup that sold in 2018 and was really interested in building something myself. My co-founder, Emily, I'd met at Bonobos and...

I was going to the city a lot and balancing ideas off her and I have this idea and it was really just following my curiosity and I think entrepreneurship in many ways is building the world.

And so, you know, that's really what led me to be curious and want to start this and convince her to like, join me and us do this together. And, you know, it's, it's been a really fun journey and a lot of people come up to me now and say, well, your timing was really great, but, know, I started working on this in late 2018. Um, and so it's, it feels like the industry and people are starting to catch up now, but to me,

it's

always felt inevitable. And it's really exciting to do this and build, know, essentially we're building the bar of the future, right? Like I think in a few years you'll walk into a bar and maybe 20, 30 % of the options will not have alcohol in them. Some may have functional ingredients, some may not, some may have THC. You know, I think that...

People want more choice and more options. know, I still drink occasionally. Over 90 % of our customers still drink alcohol.

They're just looking for options in certain occasions. It's not black and white, right? It's not non-drinkers over here, drinkers over here. That's just not the case. And it's exciting to see that momentum, but yeah, that's sort of the high level of what got us here.

Dan (34:43)
That's great. I love that you were exploring different ideas, kicking around ideas and decided to build the build the brand and product set that you wanted for yourself. That's how some of the best businesses were born where you had a need. You saw an opportunity and went after it. So, okay, so you decide to move forward with this. You build the brand. You start building some product. How do you get the word out back then? How did you start generating early sales? Because for lots of businesses, it's you know, that's the

David Fudge (35:08)
Yeah.

Dan (35:13)
hardest part when you just when you have product and say okay cool now now we have to go sell this thing what did what did your playbook look like back then

David Fudge (35:14)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's interesting. I remember intently meeting with as many founders as I could before we launched and said, you know, particularly ones that I perceived as being successful. you know, five of us from Bonobos went on to start CPG brands and we were part of this kind of 1.0 D to C era where we would have parties and hang out with people from Birchbox and we're at the runway.

be Parker and we were all in the Madison Square Park area. And so I had a good network and I was meeting with people saying, what was your launch strategy? Like, how did you get people to notice you and how did you get the word out initially? One of the things that we did, I think well was really leaning into a niche early on. so.

My co-founder and I had a lot of contacts in the fashion world. And so we, we had an influencer strategy and a gifting strategy pre-launch where we gifted a few hundred people, but rather than going kind of with like a spray and pray approach, we really focused on a niche. And so the, the reason I think that was effective is because if you're into fashion,

and you follow one fashion influencer, but you probably follow multiple ones, right? And so gifting these people, asking them to share it, leveraging our personal contacts.

Really, some people were seeing it multiple times in their Instagram feed or whatever social media channel they were on, and it gave the impression that it was bigger than it was. It was just the frequency we were hitting a certain demo was higher because we focused in on a specific niche. And it's funny, without me prompting them, multiple founders told me this.

and saying, don't go wide, go really focused and what's your network leverage your network. So it was that, but it was also some frankly kind of very low five things. Every single person I know and how their email.

I emailed, I had some press contacts, sent Applist to all my press contacts, know, leverage some getting in some early stores that I knew for visibility and raising the awareness for the brand. So I think that sometimes early stage founders can overcomplicate a launch strategy in the sense that it's sometimes a lot of the unsexy things that really work well.

And if you have a network or if you have networks you can tap into, know, the le- doing the legwork of reaching out to those people one-to-one.

and really appealing to them authentically and saying, is something that I personally put myself into. I would be really honored if you would try it and let me know what you think. That really worked very well for us. We also did invest in PR early on. One of my friends and advisors that we brought in.

we knew that you only really have one chance to make a first impression. And so I...

asked him to be an advisor and he helped us build a launch strategy for PR. So we got some really great PR early on because, you know, when building these kinds of businesses, often if you can't pay them, maybe you give them some advisor chairs and you'd say, Hey, help me out here. And we were able to get some really incredible press as well. So we coasted pretty much the first year with no paid media.

Dan (39:13)
That's excellent. I like the approach of going narrow instead of wide because it's better to be a big fish in a small pond at the beginning because that's how you're gonna get people talking and people recognizing the product when they go out and see the product in retail stores when you first kind of launch there. So are you still doing influencer marketing today? Do you still do that?

David Fudge (39:21)
Yeah.

Yeah.

We do, yeah. When we launch product, we gift product for sure. And we have a great community we've built over the years that's been very kind to us and loyal to us. And we always share what we're doing first with them. I think when you have, especially on CBG, when you have a product like ours, we have a goal of for gifting the product we want.

Ideally 30 % of them to share it to their audience and we always exceed that goal. And so, you know, there's some grunt work to like.

DMing people asking for their address, seeing if they're interested in it. But over time, you build that core network and there is a network effect to that. And so it's always a part of our strategy. We do definitely do influencer marketing. I think that people really respond to authenticity and that's kind of across the board, right? So if they perceive that, if I'm not authentic, if my co-founder is not authentic, what we're doing is not authentic,

and people, they don't like pick it up directly, they know it intuitively. And so with influencers, we always lean into people who naturally like the product anyway. So if we give to people and they love it and they reach out to us and they tell us, then we sort of maintain that relationship and even sometimes lean into it.

And but we're always trying to do people and it doesn't always resonate with everyone. But I think we need to try and force it. And, know, even if you know someone personally, that's a big following. If it doesn't feel authentic, if they don't actually like the product, people are going to pick up on that.

Dan (41:29)
We found with brands that we do influencer marketing for, when there are influencers who are just not as excited, everything is harder. The pricing is more expensive, the response times are longer, just everything is more, it feels like work, Versus somebody who is, it's a clear fit and the person is very excited about the brand.

David Fudge (41:42)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Dan (41:52)
everything else from there is just, it's super smooth, right? It's like response times are very quick. We can get shipping address very quickly. We can get the product quickly. They will create more content than we asked them to. They'll post more often and they'll come back afterwards and try to do more of it. So yeah, fit for influencer marketing is incredibly important. Now, what other strategy, and once again, I love that the authenticity kind of came through from that and influencer fit was super important.

David Fudge (42:10)
Yeah.

Dan (42:22)
being kind of a bigger fish in a small pond and focusing on communities instead of just doing the spray and pray approach for influencers. What other marketing strategies have you tried that have worked well or have failed?

David Fudge (42:23)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Oh gosh, what have we tried? How much time do you have? You know, I think to me, it again, sort of goes back to authenticity and I'm a brand guide. So as my co-founder, we've been building consumer brands, both of us our whole careers. So we invested a lot in defining the foundation of the brand before we even launched.

And so the world of the brand, what we stood for, the creative point of view of the brand, we invested quite a bit in early on and worked with amazing creatives to do that. And I think sometimes that is overlooked. And that investment in the brand and the foundation of the brand.

has really paid off and the photographers that we work with and the, you know, the packaging design and the detail that we go into with the design of our packaging, the creatives that we work with, that there's an intangible there, but it's paid dividends, I would say, you know, 10 times over in terms of what we've invested in it. So again, that's sometimes harder for people to really understand, particularly in...

a data-driven world where people want to be able to directly attribute a expense to a conversion or a new customer.

And so I firmly believe if you don't really, I think of brands like a person, if you know, they're multi-dimensional, it's not just a logo. It's not just like a photo, right? It is, you have a set of values. You know, me as a person, I have a certain style of clothing I wear.

a way I talk, interests that I have. And you really have to have a strong foundation of that when you start, because if you don't, you'll seem kind of all over the place and people will intuitively pick up that you're not authentic and they won't connect with your brand, right? And so that I think is really important. In terms of other tactics, I mean, we've tried...

You know, we've had success with traditional marketing channels like Meta and Google and now TikTok is something that everyone has been testing, although we know that's in limbo at this point. You know, I think with CCTV, like connected TV is something that we tried early on and didn't necessarily work.

And I think the reason that didn't work for us is we tried to retrofit some video content into creating an ad for Connected TV, which you should never really do, right? You should optimize the content and really shoot into the content for the channel.

And so I would say that was more of a creative mismatch in that test. You know, we've had hits and misses with PR, which is kind of a...

I think depending on who you talk to, some people think it's a waste of money. You know, I think it can, if you get it right, do really well. And some people now think of affiliate as almost like performance PR. As we all know, many of these editorial sites now will only put you on their list of best non-alcoholic drinks for January if you have an affiliate link and they can make...

it's become an important revenue stream for publishers. And so that, you know, works for us. And there's a lot of other types of affiliate models, whether it's Amazon or TikTok or, you know, YouTube that work really well. So yeah, I mean, recently in Q1, we've been testing some outdoor in the LA market.

trucks driving around the city in sort of promoting our launch in sprouts nationwide and that has been really successful for us. It's really interesting. It's a very data-driven approach to outdoor advertising through a partner called Agile Media who's been a great partner for us. And so we try and take a test and learn approach, right? Where we're not

don't want to invest tens of thousands of dollars into something until we know generally what the return might be. And so we try and think in sort of a scrappy way of like, how can we test this in a small way before we make a big, meaningful investment?

Dan (47:30)
That makes tons of sense and I love that you're doing lots of different things, right? So between PR, affiliate, influencer, the classic D to C, meta, Google, TikTok, now you're doing outdoor and outdoor makes perfect sense with retail and digital as well, but definitely with retail. So can you talk about how you're thinking about D to C versus retail? Are you prioritizing either one and what are you doing to grow your retail channel?

David Fudge (47:57)
Yeah.

Yeah, we think of D2C almost as like for our highest value customers. We have an incredibly high repeat rate in LTV there. And we have efficiency targets in terms of our CAC that we aim for. And if we're able to hit that, then we scale. If not, we don't. The other great thing about that channel is it's almost like a, you know,

focus group for us. And so if after a certain number of purchases, you get an email where you can actually book time to speak with me. So I speak to several customers a week, one-on-one for 15 minutes to get feedback on what they like, what they don't like, what they want to see from us. think it's really important to maintain that connection to the consumer. And that to me is like a basic thing that a lot of people don't do, which I find odd. And it's so delightful for customers to get on the phone.

with me, it's kind of a little odd for me for them to feel like I can't believe I'm talking to the CEO. But it creates a moment of delight for them. for people who really love the brand, that has been a powerful kind word of mouth tool. And I frankly just enjoy it.

staying connected to the consumer. So we think of D2C as being that place where that kind of like high loyalty, high LTV customer sits. You can subscribe. And if you do, you get the best price for Applos. If you love us, you know, in volume and subscribing on our site. It's other also in our industry, which is the drinks industry. And, you know, previously just known as the beverage alcohol industry.

None of those incumbents can have a one-to-one relationship with their consumers because of the three-tier system. So they're required to sell through distributors. They can't sell directly to the consumer. So that's an advantage to us where we can leverage our customer data to get better and smarter at our distribution strategy, our product roadmap.

and things like that, whereas it's harder for traditional Bevout Concompens to do that. It's part of the reason I love DSE and love having that direct customer relationship. Now with traditional, what it's called like on and off trade in drinks, you know, that is where the real growth happens over time, right? Like 80 % of our category is bought in retail. And so, you know,

Drinks are growing in the digital space, but not at a rate that's going to catch up with traditional retail in the near future.

It's important we're successful there. And so a lot of our sort of growth efforts are happening in those channels. but we do see this kind of rising tide raises all boats as you get on more retail shelves, your awareness goes up, which also increases your direct business. Right. And, you know, it's spoken to many founders of other types of CBG brands who will attest to that as well. And so, you know, I think that the data.

that we have, the first party data that we have with D2CE in order to inform our growth strategy across all channels is really powerful.

But, you know, I think in terms of the pure dollar revenue growth, we see the biggest opportunity in the more traditional on and off trade channels. And those, as I said, those key stakeholders in those channels have really made a bit of a 180, I would say in the last 18 months, whereas, you know, a couple of years ago they were like, not interested or what do do with this? Or maybe if it's a friend, they'll put it on the menu to now it's their...

coming to us, you know? So there's a big change happening there.

Dan (52:03)
We've come a long way as consumers and as brands, especially in the NA space. So what you mentioned a moment ago, I think is brilliant. So can you talk more about your strategy or how you're connecting with customers? So after people purchase, how you are scheduling a call with them and what those calls are like.

David Fudge (52:24)
Yeah, yeah, it's, you know, if you purchase more than twice from us, you get an email where we ask you, how do you hear about us? Will you share more information? Do you want to book time with the CEO? Like here, click this link and it's connected to my calendar.

and they can book, I'll take up to five a week. So I just have a certain set of rules around the bookings. And so it's pretty easy to set up. Now it's built into Google Calendar. used to use Calendly. And so really easy to do. And those calls for me are just about getting feedback. And I always like to ask them, like, what do they love about app?

because it gives you a window into like how they think about you. You know, if they immediately go to the functional piece or they just like the flavor first or they like the spirit or they like the RTD, you sort of get a gauge of how they're evaluating you or how they're thinking about you in your mind. And of course I ask them what would they improve, what would they like to see from us, you know, how do they drink the product, when do they drink the product, you know.

And themes emerge for sure. And it informs, you know, as, as I noticed things over time. And I have a document where I keep, you know, feedback on all these things. And, it's super helpful as we're doing product development, as we're thinking through kind of distribution strategy and expansion and on and off trade, you know, those sorts of things. And.

is those little touches with the consumer that go a really long way that also show that, you know, there's real people behind this business. you know, like I said, people want to connect with authenticity and it sort of strengthens the bond with the consumer. And anyone I speak to has my email. They can email me at any time.

they can ask me a question. I've gotten a few emails about issues with orders, which I'm happy to help with. Like, you know, I think that you're never too big to stay connected to your consumers.

Dan (54:44)
That strategy is brilliant. One, it gets across the authenticity and matches what you do with influencers. But two, you know, I think the challenge for a lot of D to C brands, if you're focusing specifically on e-commerce is you can lose touch with the fact that you're selling to real people. And with all of the marketing platforms we have access to, you know, if you're in Shopify or Google Analytics or meta ads, it's all numbers, right? And it can be hard to remember that these aren't just numbers.

David Fudge (55:03)
Yeah.

Dan (55:14)
These are people that you're selling to. And so by having five conversations a week, you're connecting with hundreds of your best customers each year. That can offer some pretty crazy insights, right? In terms of new products people are thinking about or how they're viewing your brand versus others or how they're prioritizing the different attributes of the product set. So I think that's amazing. And, you know, I love stories like that where brands are

David Fudge (55:15)
Yeah.

Dan (55:42)
doing things that are not scalable, but that have such a big impact. And for, you know, brand fans to be able to connect with the person who started the brand, I think just has a massive impact for word of mouth. And those people are likely going to be buying for life after that happens. So I love that you're doing that. Okay. So thanks for sharing that. Now let's move to the speed round. So each question.

or each response should be about like 30 or 60 seconds or less. So what is one of your most recommended books?

David Fudge (56:17)
That's a good question. I really love the book, The Big Leap by Gay Hendrix and it's about finding your zone of genius. Highly recommend.

Dan (56:32)
What's an under the radar product or brand you have used and like, but most people don't know about?

David Fudge (56:39)
A friend of mine started a skincare brand called LES and she has an exfoliating face wash that I'm obsessed with. Highly recommend it. It's L-E-S-S-E.

Dan (56:56)
Perfect. What's one thing in life you do better than most people, and how do you do it?

David Fudge (57:03)
one thing I like, I do better than most people.

me to brag about myself.

Dan (57:20)
And it could be either something

that you have worked to become good at or just something naturally that you've always done and it's just a natural thing for you.

David Fudge (57:32)
Yeah,

I actually think I'm a great balance of left brain, right brain. You know, I think I'm a highly creative person, but also very strategic. And I think that's really, you don't find that often. Usually people lean one way or the other.

Dan (57:49)
Tell me about your favorite shopping experience online or offline.

David Fudge (57:57)
I'm probably gonna cite Offline and

Man, I'm gonna maybe date myself. I just being in fashion for so long used to love Barneys in New York City on Madison and just the discovery and curation of brands there. Someone who's become a friend of mine, Julie Gilhart, used to be the fashion director there. And I think a great shopping experience to me is about curation and discovery.

And so, yeah, would say Barneys in the early 2000s.

Dan (58:39)
That's a great store. remember going in there back then thinking someday I'll buy something here someday. They've got wonderful stuff. Awesome. David, where can people connect with you to learn more?

David Fudge (58:43)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, so I'm on LinkedIn or Instagram at David Fudge, just my name. And I'm also at David at Aplos.world if you just want to email me directly.

Dan (59:02)
Fantastic. David, thank you so much for bringing Applos to market as a way to provide functional non-alcoholic spirits and cocktail options to the market, sharing your expertise and insights with our audience, and for joining us on the Shopify happy hour.

David Fudge (59:16)
Yeah, thanks so much Dan.