Ace Ruele: From prison to Hollywood, mastering a positive mindset and transforming the industry

Ace Ruele is a leading motion capture film and video games actor, and founder of Creature Bionics. In this conversation he discusses his extraordinary journey from 4.5 years in prison, through to acting in Hollywood movies, TV and commercials and more recently developing a world-leading company which is transforming how the film industry approaches motion capture, animal and creature work.

Ace shares his personal philosophy about how he has maintained his remarkable positive attitude across a range of challenges, and transformed his life and career through perseverance and a growth mindset.  Ace is truly an inspiration and role model for anyone wanting to progress and succeed.

More details about Creature Bionics and Ace's work: creaturebionics.com

Hosts & Guests:
Ali Godfrey (Host)
Unique Spencer (Host)
Ace Ruele (Guest)

Email: actingstrong@generationarts.org.uk
www.actingstrong.com

Social Media:
@ActingStrong
Instagram: @GEN_ARTS
Facebook & X: @GenerationArts

Produced & Edited by: Ali Godfrey

Acting Strong is brought to you by Generation Arts and sponsored by the Royal Central School of Speech and Drama
www.generationarts.org.uk
www.cssd.ac.uk

Transcript

Hello, everyone. You are listening to Acting Strong. It's a podcast that helps explore resilience for stage ready, mind ready artists. It's brought to you by Generation Arts, and it's sponsored by Royal Central School of Speech and Drama. We are your hosts.

I'm Unique, a professional actor. And I'm Ali, founder of Generation Arts. In today's episode, we're chatting to Ace Ruele, a renowned motion capture and creature actor, about his extraordinary career in Hollywood films, such as Tarzan and the Marvel franchise, also about acting in video games like Planet of the Apes and being the founder of Creature Bionics. Let's get started. Well, how's everybody doing?

Good. How are you? I'm well. You know? I I can't really complain.

I never really complained, but, yeah, I'm fine. Nice to see you. Throughout. To give that intro, let the people know who we got. So, Ace, what have you been up to?

What has life been looking like for you? So for me, realistically, everything's just been focused around my business, which is Creature Bionics, and it's a company that specializes on creatures and fantasy character performance for film, TV, and video games. So what the company does is work in preproduction, work with what characters they have, read the script, break down the script, break down the character, break down their their whole anatomy and psychology and creative movement, then use motion capture, cast, train, all of those kind of things. And then outside of that, the separate service is is we make equipment for people who are playing characters, so, like, armor extensions or, like, Dynasty Apes or different equipments to to create different anatomies. And then we have the motion capture side where we supply motion capture for production.

So stuff like what's the most recent one? The most recent game was probably Diablo and another game, which was, Lords of the Fallen and stuff like that. So that and then we have the workshop side where we demonstrate how what movement is needed for video game acting as well as for quadruped acting as well, so using our equipment to play characters. So those are, like, the main things about the business to be fair and of current. What am I currently on that I'm allowed to say?

That probably that there's a there's a Netflix film coming out, which I don't wanna say the name just as yet because they haven't announced who's been on board, but there's a Netflix film coming out, which is basically the first film where the company's got the credit for what I wanted, which is creature character development. So it's for a Netflix French film, a big game from a French, their national game basically turned into a film so that was probably the thing that I'm excited about because the credit is something that I wanted to get a specific credit. That's a great Congratulations. That's big. That is very, very big.

Thank you. And is this, like, quite a competitive area that you're that you're working in? Are there loads of people doing this, or are you unique? As a whole, no. Like, so I don't wanna say so there's not really I don't wanna say there's not competition in the sense that there's not a drive to keep pushing, but there's not like, oh, they they got the job that we wanted because it's very specific.

So, yeah, I feel like the most competition really for myself is just just making sure that it keeps getting out there and spreading as much like it has I want it to be at a point where anytime they do a film that involves creatures and fantasy characters, they they think of the company. Even if they don't use the company, but they think of it. So it's like you can't really think of for example, you can't think of MoCap and not think Andy Serkis or or think of Centroids Film Studios, or you can't think of hiring a a movie studio as a not think of Pinewood, if you get what I'm saying, whether you whether you use it or not. So it's about being on that type of level, which is what I'm that's the competition with myself, basically. Yeah.

Yeah. That's a that's a good ambition to have. Yeah. And just for someone who's kind of new to this world and this way of working, can you just give an example? Like, if we if if I came to you and I was, making a film or a video game, big Hollywood film, and I had some kind of, I don't know, creatures or monsters or something.

What what is the process in simple terms? What are the kind of steps that you that you do with that with that company? If it's if it's a whole if I do the example of Doctor Who, because one of the Doctor Who's that came out last year, we worked on it, is that I will speak with the director, speak with them, we'll have a conversation. They'll they'll let me know whether they wanna do practical effects, meaning costumes, or if they're gonna do more v effects. And then I'll read the script, and I'll break down what which one is more possible because because I've worked in the stunt side, the acting side, the animation side, and I don't mean animation as me doing it, but because I have the equipment I understand it.

So I'll let them know what what one needs, what one can be done so oh yeah you need to use VFX for this shot because it's going to be almost impossible with actors on stunts. And then I'll read the script, figure out what's the whole character behaviour of the characters, then start making a movement for them. So that would be like, okay, how do they walk? How do they run? How do that?

Then it would be, is it someone from my team doing it, or is it a cast member doing it and then training the cast member. And then if you need motion capture because it's a CG character, we supply that as well. So so that's the whole run, but if it was just sometimes it's just, oh, can we get the mocap? Oh, can we get 2 actors? And so it depends what part someone comes in for, but as an actor, it will more be about the actor learning the skill in order to perform the movement.

Okay. That's that's amazing. Like, it's so so specialized and so niche and so complicated. It sounds like you have learned so much. You must know your craft so well, and I'm really interested to hear more about how you got into this space, because I know that you did you know, you were doing acting and you were doing roles in things like Tarzan.

So you were doing that kind of motion captures green screen stuff. Can you talk about that? Like, how did that come to fruition, basically? So, originally, I wanted to do as you know, I wanted to be like an action kind of person, like, physical because that's where I've always been. And then when I done Legend of Tarzan and I saw that actors actually played like animals in the CG stuff, I found like it was a way for me to use my dance and my physicality.

Because as an action hero, it's okay. It's more basically martial arts, but when it comes to doing creature and stuff, it's like dance but in a very specific format. And it took me about 2 years, I would say. I'd say it took me about 2 years before I got my foot in the door and that's because I started making reference videos. So reference videos is like, say an animator is watching a line go past, they will use that video to create their animation.

So I used to make videos where it was like okay you're not going to get a line that stops and then walks in and stops, so in video game that's like if you put the control pad down then you press forward then you put the control pad down and it stops. So I'm like you're not going to get that from a line because a line don't just walk, stop, walk, stop, So I thought if I make movements with my arm extensions where where animators could reference it and use it for for thingy, And because I'd done that, that's what kinda got me in the door. And at the same time, there wasn't a lot of there wasn't really anybody really known as a black actor in it, So I took that as a a little thing to to to run-in there because not as oh, and it's and I like to say this to make it clear. It's not that it's not open to our diversity it's that if you just think of that you've got how many people wanna be an actor, how many people wanna do stunts, how many people want to do creature it just keeps getting smaller and smaller so there wasn't really no one in mocap because it wasn't really looked at as an acting thing.

But now because of Andy Serkis, it's now looked at more as an actor's thing. So I kinda got in there before it kinda went kaboom and and and kinda got in there. So and then, yeah, from there, when I worked for Marvel Eternals, people would say, oh, you're like the the Black and the Circus, which I love because, obviously, as you know, that's one of the people that I look towards when it comes to Korea. But I didn't always wanna be in the shadow. Like, oh, I'm just a version of I'm just a version of.

So when I worked on Marvel Eternals and one of the characters needed a tail that I I that I was playing, I decided to have a tail made. It didn't make the film, but because of the content I made with the tail, it's what kinda, like, got me out there. Then when I worked on Kraven, because Kraven was a film where which is the Sony film with Spider Man, because it was COVID and I couldn't work directly with the actor Aaron Taylor Johnson, so we had conversations and everything. I made him a I was meant to be the movement movement coach with him, but because it was COVID I made him a PDF document of like the psychology and personality and physicality of his character like I've read the script how many all the different scripts that are there. And so when I've done that it made me realize oh, creature bionic should be about character development rather than practical effects and acting because character development includes acting and practical effects anyway.

So, yeah, that's that's the journey of where it is from there to now. Yeah. Amazing. And and just one other question I wanna ask on this, just to go back again. So I know you talk about your, yeah, you're so motivated, and you set all these goals for yourself, which I'm sure will come on to.

But in terms of that that kind of jump into this, Tarzan, was it that film where you Tarzan. You you originally were an extra. Is that the one? And then Yes. Yeah.

Can you talk about what happened? So Tarzan, I remember I was in a gym, and my friend was like, they're looking for extras, and you're getting paid, like, £250, £300 a day. I was like, what? Okay. Let's let's go.

So and then and it was because it's because it was based in Africa, so they needed warriors. So I was like, alright. Cool. But then when I went, I just was ended up auditioning for the Apes, and that was with Wayne McGregor, the the choreographer, and he was the the the movement director. And then I I kinda knew that I was gonna get the row one of the rows because it was 5, so one of them because from the from the jump when it's like it was time to be a gorilla, I just got into it, whereas some people were like, you know, that you know, Ali, you know, like, some people are bit, but I'm like, yo, you want a gorilla?

I'm a be a gorilla. So so but yeah. So that was been as an extra, and then after a while, to cut a long story short, it the contract basically changed when I done some reshoots and they changed it to a full on actor, so that's when I became the lions and, you know, life went from jumping on the train to getting picked up in a car. I was like, hey. Yeah.

I know. It's like this this life is different. And so, yeah. So that was the thing that really switched that. That's my favorite job because I remember, like, before I'd go on set, I'll talk to myself like, Ace, this is the time.

This is you. You need to let them know who you are, but I don't mean who you are by being, like, over anybody else, but like you need to this is your time. And so when I got certain reactions from, like, the cameraman and David Yates and stuff on set, it it was like, okay. I'm doing the right thing. And so, yeah, that was the film that like pushed the the the engine to start to to get into it.

Amazing. Absolutely incredible. Yeah. And so you didn't just wake up one day and was there go to the gym and and all of this Tarzan thing happened. So take us back.

Like, where where did life start from you? I've always I've always been into performance from young. Like, dancing was always my main thing. It was always my my go to. Dancing was always my way or form of expression.

But I know growing up, I didn't wanna be a backup dancer because back then, it felt like the only role was a backup dancer. And then I and I was more into freestyle rather than doing choreography as Adi knows. So I I I didn't wanna be a backup dancer. So for me, then the next part was acting because I had done acting anyway. But I look at it all as one because when you're on stage as a dancer, you're acting, you know, like, if you if you really get into it.

So it was that. And then when I went I went inside, and we can come back to that. But when I kept when I went inside, I've done a course, and then that's when I met you guys and then obviously done the 2 week course and then done the full GA course. And, you know, to be honest, the the main thing about the GA course for me was to achieve training and to achieve A levels because, you know, like how parents are with education like, oh, you did it. So for me, it was like, I get to do acting training and I get to get a levels, you know.

I don't know if I've ever used the a levels for anything, but it was the achievement of that. So but so yeah. So from doing GA, from generation arts, from there, it was just like follow the trail. And then my friend my friend from there, she told me, oh, you should get into extra work. My friend, she told me about extra work, join these companies, and then join these companies from there to Tarzan to doing EastEnders.

I've had like 3 jobs where I was meant to be an extra and it upgraded. So Tarzan, New Blood and EastEnders. So they were all extra jobs, but it got upgraded on the job or just before the job. So Yeah. People really sleep on extra work, especially when they're coming in, like, because I think there's there's a bit of snobbery around it as well.

And, like, certain people say, don't do it. They won't take you serious if you're a background artist and all of that. But just like you, I I started off doing extra work because that's the only thing and the only way you can get your foot on that film set and that see it, Like, you can go to as many classes as you want and, like, do all of these courses, but until you see it, you don't understand it. And so that's the best way to sort of, like, get an overview of what you wanna be part of, and and I did, like I went on to do extra work on top where before I was actually on it. And they they I remember being on set, and they were like, yeah.

We want everyone but her. Like, to see. And I was like, what? Yeah. Yeah.

But lucky enough, it worked out for me because later on, I was on the show and whatnot. But, yeah, I'd say everybody should should start off in in some way. You're right. You're right. I don't wanna say it in a bad way, but you are at the bottom of the pit.

Yeah. For sure. That's how that's how they look at it. I don't I don't and I don't think it should be that way because by the extras, there's a lot of Mhmm. Extra v f extra VFX money you would have to spend, like, a lot.

So but, yeah, the only like, it's like you said, you could do all of these workshops, but when you go in there and see how long you have to wait, how fast pace it is, Sometimes you gotta eat in a different place from everybody else. Yeah. You're on set for hours, and you're not doing nothing. So, yeah, the Tarzan for me was different because I actually experienced waiting around and set to being in a trailer and they only call you 10 minutes before. I like it was all on the same job.

You sound insane? And I've been to a premiere since Tarzan, so it's like that whole experience for me, well, it's always like my golden my golden thing. And the actor, Alexander Skarsgard, was like, he always spoke to me. Every time he saw me, he spoke to me, like, with like, Ace, how you doing? You alright?

He always got his way. So that whole experience of like, you know, actors are celebrity actors are snobs and and I had one that was always, like, creating me, spoke about me in interviews and stuff like you didn't have to. So it just gave a different way of of seeing it and experiencing it. And so you spoke about going to school and stuff and and and then finding dance and everything. And you you didn't go to, like, a mainstream drama school.

You opted for generation arts. Why was that? Was there a reason? Like, did you not finish school? Like, what what was the sort of process of not sort of going to a mainstream drama school or going to university or anything?

It was age, experience, and ego. And my ego's like, I'm not I'm not there for 3 years. Another 3 years. Like, my ego is like, nah. I could do it without it.

My ego is like, yeah. I could do it without it, but not just of anything like that. I had to have something. Do you know what I'm saying? Like Mhmm.

I would have just gone down the stunt path really at because I wanted to because we don't have no action. We don't really have apart from from a bossy name, Jason Statham, for me, we don't have, like, a real action man who really knows martial arts over here from the UK. Do you see what I'm saying? Like, we don't really have real people. Not you got, like, people who can learn it, but I mean, like, Jason was, and I've learned from Young.

So for me, it was like, okay, I'm gonna go down that part like the Western Snipes kinda Michael j White from the UK. But then, so yeah. So for me, it was the ego that and then obviously because my age, I was 20 I was 26, I think. Yeah. 26 or 25, 24, I think.

Yeah. When I when we done generation arts and I just done four and a half years in prison. I didn't wanna get locked into another have to follow time, do this Institution. Yeah. I didn't wanna have to do it.

A lot of it is not wanting to be part of institutions. I don't wanna have to do it again, but I would never and I get this question asked like, oh, so do you go to drama school or not? I said, if you ain't got no plan, go to drama school. Mhmm. Like, if you ain't got no if you haven't got no plan, like, you know, a plan that, yo, like, I've got this plan and this fire in your and your and you need fire in your belly as well.

Mhmm. Because, really, why should I give you the job when someone's trained for 3 years? Like Mhmm. So this way is this way is more challenging because, yeah, you have to you have to prove with experience, whereas if I've got a drama school credit behind me I don't have to prove the experience that is the experience now it's just getting the jobs whereas this way you've got to prove with experience and then you may not get a job because you don't have the experience. So I wouldn't advise going that way unless you really had belief in yourself and you know you've got the skill to because I I have my skill now from back then to now has the stuff that I know now, I know how to do animation, not, like, on a crazy level, but I could come in and show people animation.

Like, that's stuff that I didn't know before, but to be fair to get into what I've got into I've had to like own my own motion capture equipment, make, have equipments made like create videos, I've done so much just to get in. So it wasn't like hey I want to do mocap, it was jeez, I've done this. I've bought my own suit. I was the only person in the UK with as an actor with my own suit, then the only person with more than 1 pair of arm extension, the only person making the arm mix. So it was all of these things that got in.

So if you're not willing to do all of that, then a 100% drama school because you've got a foundation that you can use as your your force behind you. Yeah. I think that's definitely a brilliant way to put it actually because, obviously, we both went through different paths. You didn't go to drama school. I did, and I didn't have what you had.

Do you know what I mean? Like, I didn't have this experience. Everyone has one. Everyone has one. Everyone has 1.

But you're not me, dear. Yeah. Drive to, like, have this individual idea of, like, where I was going and what I was doing. I just knew at that time that I wanted to be an actor, and that was it. Do you know what I'm saying?

I didn't even really know much about casting directors and all of these other people that were involved. And when you go to drama school, that's when you learn all of those things about who who these people are, like artistic directors, casting directors, how to get an agent, like, how the industry actually navigates and works as a machine. I'm with that because and I think with drama school students, I think, like, there's a resilience that if you can and even if you go to university, the fact that you, by choice put yourself in an institutional setting where you have to wake up, deliver work, you have to go school by law but if you choose to but if you choose to do drama screening, you choose to do university and you actually make it through, that that should be a an example of you and your work. But I feel like when people leave drama school, when they don't get the jobs and stuff, they lose that. But if you keep in mind, like, yo, I, by choice like, I might have not even liked school, but by choice, I went and decided by choice.

By choice. To do that. Yeah. And he dragged me there kicking and screaming. That kid, I'm screaming.

I promise you. I was, I'm not going, and you think my mom's got money for this. You're crazy. You don't know where I come from. We ain't got 15 grand to just be dropping on playing on TV and playing in Vietnam.

It was crazy. But Yeah. You know, People make the way and pass for you to get there, and and and you're grateful for that. Yeah. So I can never knock I can never knock it, and I always tell people, go that way unless you got fired and you've got a real card idea.

So, like, you can see it. You know what I'm saying? And if you don't have that, I'm not gonna tell you, yeah, go and do that. And then it's off. Oh, I I'm not making it because a said, go not don't go drama school.

No. No. No. Go drama school because if if it don't work out, you ain't blaming me. So, man, but but yeah.

So you've had this, like, amazing, incredible success, and you're so motivated. And it really comes across how motivated you are and, just such a positive mindset. You're in prison for was it 4 years? Yeah. Four and a half years.

Four and a half years. So so what did you learn from that? And, like, how did you come out of that and and be so successful when it's a kind of thing that might really kind of affect somebody very negatively and and kind of almost define their whole life? How have you made that happen? Again, it's ego because I came out like, I'm still gonna be an actor even with criminal records.

I can I can find ego in a lot of my moments, but it's with myself like, it's not like I'm proving it to anyone like, oh, watch me, Ali? Watch me do it. It's like I'll be like, no. I'm still gonna do do do. So it's that, but then the main thing was like when I came out of prison, I've done a lot of self work in regards to reading stuff about self, like the importance of self and, you know, like the science, spirituality, quantum physics, psychology.

And, like, when you get deep into these things, like, when I came out of prison, I didn't play no rap music 2 years on my headphones. Like, it was all, like, motivational stuff, like, the other, you know, stuff where we're talking about workshops. Like, I only had that on for 2 years of my life. Like, no no rap, no nothing. Apart from when I went to a club, but in my personal space, no.

And then I was I'll sit on YouTube for hours, like, the difference between the left and right hemisphere. Then I might watch something spiritual. Then I might watch something scientific. And so I feel like all of that helped in regards to knowing my my worth. And then but at the same time, when you know your when you know what you are worth, then you also realize, well, hey.

She's a human being like me, so she she has the same worth too. Oh, shit. We all got the same worth. So it's not the worth as if oh I'm above this. The worth like oh shit like this is what I have.

So I would watch like videos of like you know people shouting monks and I'm like, what? We can train our bodies to do that? Oh shit. That means we all can do it. So it's that kind of thing that made me recognize that, oh, I'm value and oh, Rob.

I've I've got so much value just as a human being. Like, Rob, like, if I cut my skin, cells will regenerate it for me. If I'm ill, my body will fight for me. So I'm like, right, if my body is doing all of these things for me, it beats for me, I must be here for some kind of purpose like, Mhmm. Like a machine that just keeps me alive and it always tries to keep me alive until I fuck it up or until I get hit by a car or something.

Right? This this machine really wants to do this for me. Okay? Like I must have some value and then you're like oh, everybody else has the same machine like body and all their veins and hearts do everything for them. So, oh, we all want value.

So I feel like because I recognize that and I truly I truly live in that, and it's not always that all the time, but I think because it's in my core system, I can't speak to anyone and no one can't and someone can't say to me, oh, no I can't do this, I can't be like, yeah you can't do it. I'm always the person like, of course you can because you can. If I'm on the path there then I'm living it isn't it? For me I feel like it's not the result it's the path of living there. So the path of living as an actor is the life of an actor rather than, oh, I've made the film.

Do you see what I'm saying? Yes. Because once when I done Marvel, I was like, oh my god. After, like, 3, 6 weeks of being on it, I'm like, oh, this is what it is. Oh, okay.

Mhmm. And so it's like yeah. So the resilience, I would say, just comes from ego and just just doing a lot of self rehabilitation. And and it wasn't easy at first because I didn't notice I gave some troubles sometimes at at the workshop, but I can say now I'm in a space where everything's mostly about being from the heart rather, like, you know, just being from that space with the ego there to make sure everything is in check. So that's what I would say is.

So it's kind of like finding the answers internally rather than externally kind of thing? Yeah. Yeah. Finding it internally because that that that's who you are. You're you're the operating system of yourself.

So it's like, yeah, I can give someone can give me advice, but it has to be me to accept it as truth for them for me to then live it. So you can tell me I'm amazing, but the moment that I accept that as truth, that's internal. So that's that's what it is, and I just found ways to accept that, oh, if, you know, when I when I think, okay, I went to prison for 4 and a half years, but then there's someone that, you know, don't have no arms and legs, and they're living a great life. Or someone came out came on a boat and struggled, didn't speak the language, learned English and then started a life for themselves. Like, I'm like, right.

There's people out there doing way worse than me, so I I bet I have no excuses. And that's how I like to look at it. Like, there's always someone out there that wish they had my life. So doesn't mean that my life doesn't have problems. It just means that I know that there's someone way off worse.

Like, someone's someone's worried that there's a bomb gonna hit their home. I'm not having those worries. Do you know what I'm saying? So when I look at it like that and those people are still able to find happiness and create a life, I have to. So it's kinda that's that's what it's kinda based off.

But where does that come from in you? Because even, like, when you say you left prison and you started listening to all the motivational stuff and, like, some you know, most people wouldn't do that. So it's still something within you had that kind of drive and that fight. Do do you know that or not? My mama.

It's my mom. Yeah. It's my mom. So she she like she's always been rooted in herself of like who she is and so when I came out she was listening to motivational stuff and I started listening to it and I was like oh yeah this is for me. And it's like I kind of because my mom was always into things from young like you know from spiritual, from astronomy to astrology to philosophy, she's she's read most of, like, Aristotle's and Napoleon.

She's read many books on philosophy, many books on history, many books on spirituality. So her backbone is basically the reason why I have, like, a push. So, yeah, you're right, Ally. Some people didn't have that as a parent or as or as a as a sibling. So shout out to those that actually come to that without even having that.

Yeah. But it's like but it's like I said, everything when I look at everything from this perspective, like, everything is for you. Like, you may not have had no friends, but for someone to write the book and that and that you learn from that book, that book is your friend now. So it's like I just had to move in. I just had a human being behind me, but some but some people might find it on YouTube or on a book or and now because of the phones that we have, we got access to all of these things as well as the the b s as well, but you can type on a phone right you can type on a phone right now like how to change my diet or how to start thinking better.

Like, whereas before, 2015 years ago, it was you had to be a reader and not everybody is into books. I'm not into books, I'm more audio. But now it's more easier to get that. So YouTube, YouTube and my mom. Because YouTube Yeah.

YouTube I love that. Yeah. Yeah. YouTube and my mom because I wasn't a reader. My mom was a reader.

She's well, I'm not a reader. My mom was. So if it wasn't for YouTube being able to go on the Internet and type things, I may have not been as much because I'm still not a reader. I'm I'm a book collector. I got books.

Oh, yeah. Let me get a book. So, but, yes, so I'll say that that's where it's Ali, my mom in YouTube. I think the key thing there is, like, the self worth because I think even after you take initially have the self worth to take the first step and then continue, you still need the self worth to survive if Yeah. Like, the industry.

Do you know what I mean? Because there's Yeah. So many times where you get rejection after rejection after rejection, and you're like, wait. Wait. Wait.

Hang on. I got into this thing for it to be blowing and being successful. Like, why is it not going the way that I want it to go? And then having, like you said, like, having your mom there and and and having YouTube and stuff like that. So do you think that it's important?

Because I know some of the work that you do is, like, mentorship and, like, coming back to generation arts to give you a little like, give all your wisdom to young people and stuff. Is it important for you to give back in that way because you know how important it is to receive it? Yeah. 100%. So, like, all my talks are for free.

So anytime a school is set for, like, an hour or so, I'll always do it for free. I never charge because I wanna have one thing where it's not about money. Because as much as I love creature bionics and, yeah, it it, you know, assists people to do stuff, if I'm not getting paid I ain't going to be doing as much, so yeah my workshops I will give you more than your money is worth but if there's no money for the workshop there's no workshop, Whereas when it comes to doing talks I don't wanna put money on that because it's like let's say there's one young person in there that might have needed to see me and this, like, what do I charge them? Do I charge them for me as Ace, as a speaker, or do I charge them for how much films I've worked on? Or do I charge them as creature violence?

Like, so forget all of that because then for me so, yeah, I always go into schools and do talks. And for and and in regards to, like, yo, what is it for you to to, like, keep the momentum and drive? For me, I feel my my my whole opportunity has changed when when in MoCap when before I was like knocking on the door like, hire me, hire me, hire me. Then after I said, okay, what can I do to elevate the whole of MoCap? Like, what can I do?

So some of the equipments that I I've had made have actually benefited motion capture data for creatures. So it's actually upscaled the data that's come from it. And then me making the reference videos with all of my equipment, so like my monster legs that are shaped like a dinosaur leg, like me doing stops, starts, turns, and walks and putting it out there for the industry for free, that those cut because I was thinking from the mindset of how can I add value to the industry, it made me get work? Whereas when I was like hire me hire me I didn't get as much. So I always feel like I always feel like you have to aim higher than what you want because what it's like when you do reps in a gym that for some reason 10, you go into 10, 8 and 9 is good and all of a sudden 10 is a struggle.

Like, so if I go for 15, I'm a get 10 because I'm even higher. So that's why I like to think about, like, why should they choose me? If this person's better than me and I'm not willing to put in the work, why should they choose me? Why? Because I auditioned.

Like, what? So like when I do write to a company I can be like I can save you money and time here's how rather than hey. I've got these services. Would you like to hire me? If you get what I'm saying.

So that's that's that's my approach. Like, just just to stay resilient, you have to obviously have to believe in yourself, know that you've got the skill, but branding is the the main important thing. So branding, skilled and personality. So branding is like that's how you get seen creating your content blah blah blah, doing your auditions, however you want to do it. Then skill, make sure you got the skill because when you get seen, you might get a job.

And so the skill is like, don't be branding all of this stuff. Like, I won't be doing that. Yeah. I won't be doing that back clips. I won't I won't post, like, a form of animation that I know I never did because let's say now someone says they want that.

I can't really provide that. So you gotta make sure when you do the branding, make sure whatever you're putting out, you can actually do all day. And then after that, it's personality. So now you're working with the person. You can have the skill, you can have the bandit, but if you're if you're a d I c k, it don't matter.

So personality, you need and the next drop. Mhmm. The next drop, the personality. So that's what I always say. So think about how to add value to what you're doing and do something that's different or at a level where everybody goes, Rah.

And then it's about, are you are you gonna now use your your your effort to make it work or you're gonna just be high off what everybody else is saying? Because some people just get high off what everybody else is saying and when it don't happen they collapse but if you if you now see what people are seeing and without thinking you're better but you can just see that run bringing something different and you run with it. So, like, with me, you don't expect someone like me with all these tattoos to be walking with a tail down the road. That's what I'm saying, like, first of all don't expect it. Exactly.

Now now they kinda do, but you know what I'm saying? You won't you won't expect a black guy like me to most likely be doing that. You won't expect anyone to do it, but someone like me, you might more see me in Top Boy compared to then seeing me, with these equipments on. And, oh, I'm the person that had the idea design them, by the way. Oh, and I've do you understand what I'm saying?

So Yeah. It's so I know I stand out a little bit more just because you don't expect it from someone like myself. So if you know that you're a you're an Asian girl and there's not many of you in that field, oh, that's your that's that's your ticket. I'm not sure. That's that's your niche.

Not no. There's not enough diversity. No. Be the first and then open up the door because you know what I'm saying? So that's that's what I look at, really.

And so, Ace, if you was in control of the industry and you could do anything or be in anything or create anything, what what would it be? I would I would wanna make, basically, I will make a video game that really makes you feel you're learning about yourself. Yeah. Do understand what I'm saying? Yeah.

Because Yeah. When I think about I'm gonna give you a story. So God of War is my favorite game of all time, and then so I I play it on hard, and then when I play on ultimate hard at the beginning there was one point where I just kept dying over and over and over again. I turned the game off and said I ain't playing it no more. And 3 months later I said Nah, I have to do this like how can I not play this game and then I've it took me about 2 of 2 hours to do it And then I realized, like, I had to keep failing in order to know what the bad guys were doing?

Mhmm. And so I was, like, okay. So every so I know when I start dying all the time, I never I don't get paid off anymore because it was, like, okay. I'm because I can keep coming back. So it so okay now I need to figure out how to get round it and for me That's just that's just life like when I apply that in real life, like, okay, I didn't get this.

I didn't get that. That didn't happen. Okay. Now I'm just trying to figure out what's the what's the way around it? But I someone like me or you or Ali might use that mindset in a game, whereas to the gamer, it might just be a game.

But what about if there was a game that really made you feel self confident after the end of you playing it, you know what I'm saying? So that all because it's like and then it's like monopoly but people use monopoly as a game that I'm really went into property because of monopoly That that game does make you feel like, oh, I can make money in property. That it does. So so it gives you that sense of of of earning like through housing. Like, anyone that knows about a bit about housing, the first probably thing they've done was monopoly.

So it's like, imagine a video game where it makes the person feel like they can believe in themselves and and not see failure as a way out. So that would kind of be my basis, like a game like that. Amazing. Yeah. No.

I think I think the core of who you are is is to just keep leveling up and to keep giving back, and I think that's such a beautiful thing to have, in this industry that can do you know what I mean? You can get lost sometimes and and get caught up in all of the glitz and the glamour and and and just be in that in that realm of it all. Just, like, going back in terms of resilience and and and just touching on, like, the prison and and the deportation side of things, like, what is your sort of motivation now that's that's keeping you going? Like, what I mean, tell for those that don't know, just tell us a little bit about what that is and and that situation is for you. Yeah.

So when I was before prison, obviously, I obviously, I got in trouble, went to prison. And then the year before the year before I was meant to come out, I got a letter talking about deportation, and I I was confused because I was like, what do you mean deportation? So I've only cried twice inside. 1 the first night, and I was like, right, what what what happened what I what happened to my mom, my brother? It wasn't it wasn't cry like I'm scared.

It was like, right, what have I done? And then when I got the letter for deportation, I cried then because I was like, what do you mean deported to Jamaica? Like, what what what do you mean? But, like, again, I just I just had that, like, what will be will be. Like, I can sit here and be worried and think that I'm gonna it's not gonna happen.

But if it ain't gonna happen and I'm gonna get deported, then I gotta stop that. So all I can do is just do what I can to go in the way that I want it to go. I don't try to go too far and follow the story like, oh, my God. I just see. Yeah.

I'm back in Jamaica. I'm here. I'm not speaking to my family for years. I can't act no more. What kind of job am I gonna do?

I'm gonna have to be a bad man because what else is that I don't I don't go down that store. It's like, oh, nope. Hey, don't don't put it. If I get the point, we'll see what happens when we get there like. So that that for me is like a saving grace where, like, yeah, negative thoughts come but I try not to follow the trail of the story because those stories sit in your system.

Yeah. The resilience really again is just after, yeah, just like don't follow the story, Yeah. I'm gonna have a negative thought, but what's the what's the every problem has a solution. So if there's every problem has a solution and and there's 2 sides to a coin, so I just need to try and find a solution. I might not find it, but if I'm on a path, I'll try to find it rather than on the path of what would happen if I don't find it.

Well Mhmm. Why why be on the path of what happen if I don't find a solution? Why just be on the path of, like, what if I do find a solution? Mhmm. And that's what I think it is.

It's not always to live like that, but when I get back into my like, my foundation, my thing is, yeah, problems always happen. What's the solution to go forward rather than so what what if we don't find a solution? Well, what if we do? So that's kind of my my my idea. So just to be clear for people who don't know your the story, your you you were born in this country.

Your mom was Jamaican, and Mhmm. You didn't have a passport as a child, which you don't have to. And that's on that basis, they've been trying to deport you since that time. And it means that you have huge challenges to experience in your work because you can't travel, and they and it's still ongoing, and you've had numerous court cases. So it's it's, again, something that, many people would just allow that to to crumble.

And as you've said, you you know, you've you've found that resilience. Where are you now with it just in terms of the the process, and is there any any next steps with that? So I won all my deportation cases, and it was years after they came to take my indefinite leave to remain and make it temporary. Again, obviously, Ali, you know, like, I was confused because, like, I've been out of prison for years. I've not been in trouble.

I don't get why you're coming back. Then my first case, I won because the judge turned around and said, Hey, look, you've been out of prison for how long? It was 4 years then, not committed no offense, showed proof of work, showed everything. I don't see any reason of taking your indefinite leaves to remain apart from making our financial stress, so he went with me. Then when he went to the 2nd court, for some reason, that judge turned around and said he didn't see family ties.

He didn't see me making I wasn't there was no proof of job work and everything like that, and so he disallowed it. And because he disallowed it, every appeal followed that judge. And so because of that judge, I have to pay every two and a half years. I have to pay about, I don't know, $3 now probably, and on a 10 year path until I can get my definite leaves again, which yeah. And the only way really around it, to be fair, is is two ways.

Money, like, money or fame. That's that's it. Because fame like, if I blew up tomorrow and I was in a massive film and then I came out with it, you know how, oh, no. Don't wait. Woah.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. We'll get we'll get caught up. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Or money. Like, you get the lawyer that's, like, a £1,000 an hour, but they can find the loop holes and, oh, yep. They jumped up. Oh, but we can sue them for this.

Or someone high up someone high up, you know, a celeb or a politician sees it, and it's like, you know what? This is really effed up. Like, what the hell is going on? Paperwork stays in the court. So how does one judge say that he's seen the evidence and another judge says they ain't seen the evidence?

So how is this possible? And it's in writing, so it's not it's not my verbal. It's in writing. So it's for someone to see that a lawyer this could be a lawyer or someone sees that and be like, hold on. This is and then when they add it to the stuff that I'm doing already, like, yeah, I I work alongside with the police.

I work alongside with with the old Bailey Court. Right? Mhmm. You know? I'm I'm doing so there should be no reason.

But as I said, I just always think there's someone out there that wish they were stuck in England. There's someone out there that wish they were stuck in England. What? Get what? Yeah?

So because of that, and I don't think of the the story, like, I don't sit here and think, I can't go on holiday. Yeah. I can't do that. If I was to do that, then, yeah, but I don't do it. And I just keep thinking, hey.

Listen. One day I know I know one day I'm gonna fly. Like, I know, like, I'm not worried. I'm not worried. It might take a while, but I'm not worried.

I'm not gonna live to 80, 90 and not leave the country and not be able to come back. It's not gonna happen. So I'm not worried. It's just when. So, that that's that's that's just what it is.

But as I said, the resilience comes from, like, don't follow the story, the negative story, find a solution. And there's always somebody out there worse that would love to have the life you live. Like, that really loves to have the life I live. Like, so my children are healthy, like, my family is well. So what can what can I do?

Amazing. Thank you for being such a amazing role model. All time. Yeah. Literally.

And, honestly, from the day I've met you, it's always been an inspiration to watch you even to reach out to you and be like, yo, Ace. I got this audition. I don't know what's going on here. I'll do some movement thing. What should I do?

That's not having that love that you've always shown. And, you know, we've even had other guests on that have spoken very highly about you being the person they first saw, like, getting into acting and thinking, yo. They can do that. I can do that. And so, you know, like, everything you said here today just is just testament to how you live your life and how you're impacting others.

So, brother, it's always love. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. And just one last really quickly really quick question.

You said you said so much today, but if you had to just give a, like, you know, sentence of advice to a young person who wants to get into this world or into acting or performing or into whatever it is they're interested in. Find a way to add value by doing something different. Find a way to add value to the industry by doing something different and something that you love. It has to be love has love has to be in it because if there's not love in it, you're not gonna stay in it. If you love something, you'll wanna add value to it.

Like, hey. You know what I'm saying? If you really love the arts, like, love love love, like, how people you know how some people black. I love this. This is my life.

This is everything. I'm like, okay. But, like, but if that's the case, then you'll find a way to add value to it because Mhmm. Just like if you have a partner, you wanna add values to them. So I I I was thankful to find a way to add value even if it's 1%, 2% to the mocap side, to the animators doing the stuff, creating creating stuff that was never done in mocap before.

I've added value to that. So it's like there's more people running around on arm extensions now because I've added value to that so it's like because I love finding that new idea like oh this is gonna be it's gonna be the one and it would it ain't what I'm like Yeah, I would it ain't what I'm like, dad Well, well, but I've had post like on my tick top. I've had the highest post I've got is like 28,000,000 and I make a video and I'm like, yeah, this is the one. This is 1. And that's pants And I'm like and then I put 1 and then I just put one random one on there.

I haven't posted it. I haven't posted TikTok in a while. Let me just put that up there. 15,000,000. Oh, okay.

Good. So it's like so it's like and again, like, my social media that TikTok is like an example of, like, oh, what I'm doing because It's got almost 230,000 followers, but it's showing me that what I'm doing is it can build its own audience. You know what I'm saying? And it's different because I put a video up there the other day where I've where we created the arm extensions, but now you can use them to swing on bars and there's 30,000 comments but I'll say at least 20,000 of them are all racist, full on racist, full like crazy on racist. But it's like you have to be able to accept that that you have to be able to accept that certain people are gonna have a different view to you.

And if you can't even accept that because, like, there's an actor that you love that I love that someone thinks he's shit. Mhmm. Sorry for swearing. But someone thinks it's crap. So if they was listening to that side of everybody, yeah, just just do stuff and be willing to take the criticism because some people may not like it.

So if they don't if you love what you do, you're gonna be able to take the criticism. Yeah. To answer that question short, try to add value by doing something different and make sure love is there with the ego, mix them together to make it. You know what I'm saying? Because ego will have you black.

I'm making this happen. I am making this happen. That's ego. And love is, like, how can we how can we all make this happen? Do you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. So That's honestly, that's so beautifully put, though. So beautifully put. Yeah. So I've been searching for that, and that is quote that I needed and the definition I needed to in my own head to figure out that what is it that I bring and I'm I'm doing, and that's exactly what I'm doing.

And I and I believe everyone has there's something there. I don't and I know people might say, oh, it's Farfetch. But I always say, look, how are you gonna know unless you go all in? How are you gonna know unless you go all in and go all in for 10 years? How would you know?

So until you go all in, you ain't gonna know to be like, oh, it's not for everybody to do it. But I believe everybody can, it's just that not everybody is gonna go all in. And that's facts, like, Adi, like, look how long you've been holding Generation Arts for. Like, do you know what I'm saying? Like, and it's nonprofit.

So it's just like when you when there's passion there Mhmm. You you gotta find a way. You find a way. Yeah. So Stop stop words.

Stop. Yeah. You find a way. So I believe that no matter how many people wanna be an actor or whatever, once you once you search for your gold and you find that gold and you know the value of that gold, you will run with it. You Mhmm.

Run with it. But you gotta run with it. So, yeah, that would be that would that would be my final little last words. Thank you, Ace. Thank you so much.

Thank you. I appreciate you. Okay. Not a problem. Not a problem.

Mhmm. Thanks. Each one can teach 1, so keep acting strong. Subscribe, spread the word, and turn on your notifications. The lineup of guests have all tested their resilience, So come see what you can learn.

Thank you for listening, and see you next time. Bye.