Hayley Konadu: Starring in a Netflix hit, not going to drama school, Black hair for actors, and staying grounded

Hayley Konadu is an actor, and facilitator who recently starred as Flo Bones in Lockwood & Co (Netflix) and has worked on screen and theatre, as well as extensively as an facilitator and assistant director with young people and in arts education settings.  

In this richly authentic conversation with Ali and Unique, Hayley discusses the process of auditioning and being cast as Flo Bones in Netflix's smash hit Lockwood & Co.  She opens up about the realities of coping with massive success followed by rejection, and how kindness and staying grounded support her mental well-being.  Hayley offers practical wisdom and advice for any aspiring and beginning actor and her resilience and realness shine through. 

Hosts & Guests:
Ali Godfrey (Host)
Unique Spencer (Host)
Hayley Konadu (Guest)

Email: actingstrong@generationarts.org.uk
www.actingstrong.com

Social Media:
@ActingStrong
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Produced & Edited by: Ali Godfrey

Acting Strong is brought to you by Generation Arts and sponsored by the Royal Central School of Speech and Drama
www.generationarts.org.uk
www.cssd.ac.uk

Transcript

Hello, everyone. You are listening to Acting Strong. It's a podcast that helps explore resilience for stage ready, mind ready artists. It's brought to you by Generation Arts, and it's sponsored by Royal Central School of Speech and Drama. We are your hosts.

I'm Unique, a professional actor. And I'm Ali, founder of Generation Arts. In today's episode, we are interviewing actor Hayley Konadu about her career so far, including her role in Netflix's Lockwood and Co, and the highs and lows of being a stage actor, and how she found success without going to drama school. Let's get started. 

Tech Technology.

That? Yes. Hello. How are you? Good.

Can you hear us? I can hear you. Excellent. She's broadcasting from a cupboard. She's actually a professional.

I mean, if Harry Potter's casting, we know who to cast. Wait. Is are we starting recording now? Just wait for you to be ready. I'm so sorry.

I'm ready. I'm ready. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go.

So welcome to Acting Strong podcast, Hayley. Thank you again for being on. Oh, this is so cool, guys, first off. Like, this is great. I love you.

So how's life? Life is good. Life is good. It's always weird that you ask a creative and actor how life is because you're like, what what what do I what do I say? No.

But, on a on a general on a general note, life life is good. We've all known each other for quite a few years through Generation Arts. Obviously, you've worked for Generation Arts for quite a long time, and Unique was part of Generation Arts as well. Recently, you've been doing really well. Your acting career has just taken off.

So one thing that would I'd be great to to hear about to start with is Lockwood and Co on Netflix. Pretty big deal. I was working with you at the time, and you were here, there, and everywhere doing loads of stuff. I even saw your face on the side of a bus. So what was that like?

What was that experience like of being in a in a big hit on Netflix? Oh, it was incredible, overwhelming. It was truly, like, such a privilege to be part of that show. Not only because it was, like, a such a well written show, like, the team behind it were incredible. Like, absolutely incredible.

Just so talented, both cast, crew, and creatives, but also, like, really caring, which is rare to have being part of the show. So I felt looked after from, like, the day I auditioned to the day we wrapped. Like, I felt really held and held throughout that process. So, yeah, it was amazing. So tell us a little bit about the process of auditioning for that show.

Like, how did it come about? Like, do you have an agent? Yes. I have an agent. Amazing agent, Simon and Howes, Simon and Howes.

And how it came about is usually you get a sort of audition sent through for your from your agent. So I've got an audition sent through, and I saw it. And immediately when I saw it, it was because Lockwood and Co were books, so they were adapting the book to make a series. So they put the book synopsis on the, sort of the audition email. And I read it, and I was like, this is this is really cool.

Like, this is a really, really cool book. And then I read the, like, sort of breakdown for the character because usually when you get sent through an audition, you get sent through the breakdown of the character that they want you to audition for. And I read it, and I was like, oh, she sounds amazing. And then I've done the, like, thing of, like, researching her online and just seeing obviously, because it's books and, like, they're fans of the book, and they've done, like, sort of, fan art. And Blue was just, like, white.

So I was a bit like, this is great. I don't know if this is like I am the person for the role, but I would love to just go ahead and audition anyway. So I kind of sort of canceled myself out a little bit before, but I was like, you know what? Hayley, you have nothing to lose. I think that kind of, in a weird way, helped me throughout the audition process because I was like, you know what?

Like, I don't feel like this I'm the the person of the role in terms of, race wise. That wasn't true. But I was like, let me just go for it because I really like this character. This character is strong. She's gritty.

She's not, like, usually what I'd audition for. Like so, yeah, let's just go for it. So I turned off this outtake. The week after I sent it off, my agent got back to me and said, oh, they wanna see you for a second audition. But the dates that they were given, I was going away to Glasgow to do an r and d, which I had already, like, signed a contract for, like and now with an r and d that was I was quite involved in as well.

I didn't wanna, like, sort of say no to the r and d. And they paid for my flights and everything, and they didn't wanna say no to the r and d because of a potential audition. And so I said to my, like, my agent, oh, this is what's going on. She's like, don't worry. Like, we'll try to sort it.

That happened, and then I didn't hit anything back for, like, a month and a bit. So in my mind, I was like, well, that's it then. And then after, like, a month and a bit, my agent got back to me. It was like, okay. They wanna see you this week.

And I was like, oh my god. Okay. They wanna see you this week. And I was like, oh my god. The audition was great.

It was really cool. I kinda just walked in there, done my thing, walked back out. And I remember I went to Primark, and this was, like, an hour after the audition. My agent called me, and she was like, yeah. They wanna see you again next week.

Oh my god. It does. The second audition, it was I went in there, like, in my mind of, like, usually because auditions, you're nervous. You're human. But when I went in there, I was just I just went in with an idea of the character, who I thought the character was, and I made a decision.

And that's what I first learned as an actor. When you go into an audition, make a decision. Don't think about what they're looking for. Like, that's not my job as an actor. My job is an actor to do the work.

Don't make make a decision about the character. And your decision might be completely wrong, But that's okay because you made a decision. And they could be like, okay. Not thinking of that. Let's redirect you.

That's what they did in my second audition. So got the call. They just said they wanna see you again. I was like, okay. Now I feel like this could be this could be a thing, and they were working with sort of an acting coach, dialect coach.

They it's like they wanted you to do your best in the audition. So, like, I think every person I auditioned, I believe, worked with this person. I hope I hope I'm not giving away any secrets. Oh, well, done now. It is done now.

So it felt like an accent. I was great. Oh, this is amazing. A couple days later, my agent called me, and she said, oh, you've got a screen test. So when you get a screen test at the laptop, like, you are really close typically to getting the job.

So I had to have a chemistry test with a guy that was playing opposite to my character. They have, like, a bit of a friendship slash kind of love interest in the show, with each other. Ali, amazing, amazing, amazing person. Also, I was also really conscious because I know I look young, but I was 29 up to 30 at the time. And the character that I was going for was 19 ish.

So I was a bit like, oh, hope they don't like, but it was fine. And then I went through my screen test. That was really good. Again, worked with the acting coach before the screen test, and she gave me some really good advice. She said for a screen test well, actors always make it about themselves because they're really nervous.

But, she said with screen test, your goal is to get to know the other actor and actually just be human and talk to them and be kind to them. Because the chemistry you have off off the camera, that chemistry will flow into the camera, and you've only got a short amount of time to have chemistry. So really go in, just talk to him like you would meet another person. I'm like, so went in. Me and Ali were just chatting, joking, and then we had we had a screen test, and that was great.

And then my agent called me. She was like, they wanna see you one more time. Well, I was like Wow. They kept you going and going and going. How did you just hold on for so long?

Like, what was the motivation to be like, do you know what? Actually, I don't wanna do this anymore. Like, this is too long. I think because and I I get that this is a unique experience, so I'm not gonna say, like, this is gonna be this will happen on every audition experience. I know that my feelings will change, but I think that this that experience because I was working with the acting coach and they were so communicative, like, in my in my mind, I was just like, if I don't get this, this has been the best audition experience of my life.

I can't believe I'm getting this far. And if I don't get the job, yes, I will be upset, but I've learned so much through this audition process. So but I know that most some audition setups are not like that, so it might be different. But that's how I sort of kept myself going of like, hey. If you don't get this, this has been an amazing experience for you to just go through the rounds.

Friends also help. Just having something planned in the week to just take your mind off it. That weekend was so grueling, but I remember it was my friend's 30th birthday, and I was helping a plan it. So it just took my mind out of what was happening, and I just did my thing. I was like, this is what I'm gonna do.

This is what I can do. You like you, you like you, you know you do. And then 2 days later, they told me I booked the job. Congratulations. Congratulations.

So that was my big yeah. Yeah. That sounds amazing. Like, a massive roller coaster, but as you say, a huge learning experience as well. Also, I guess from looking from the outside, it sounded like, obviously, really high profile compared to, like, say, a lot of theater work and stuff.

How do you kind of, like, navigate that when you're being invited to premiers and being given a car and all that stuff that comes with that kind of work versus coming back down to Earth and working maybe in a fringe theater show or something where you don't get any of that stuff. Yeah. It kind of it was an amazing experience. I take everyone off. Oh my god.

This is incredible. Like, cards coming to pick you up every day and all that stuff, but it's a job. Like, I was like, oh my gosh. I've got a role. But then this kind of, like, fierce end of, like, now I have to do the job.

So I I kinda saw it as took it as, like, any other job. As much as I told myself of, like, obviously, this is gonna be big and glamorous, but, like, one thing I've learned, especially maybe it comes of age, that this industry sometimes can be quite fickle, in a sense of, like, one day you're up here, the next day you're down there. And I think for me to sort of preserve my mental well-being, which I think is so super important in this industry, like, to your mental well-being and, like, making sure that's in sort of tact for yourself and don't lose yourself to everything, is by having your friends around you, reminding you of who you are. Like, yes, this is great. I absolutely enjoy it.

I enjoyed it. I think I didn't enjoy it enough. I was I was so focused. I'm like, I wanna do a good job. Like, yeah.

This is great. Like, all this stuff is happening, and people will tell you great things, and that's great. But I had to, like, stay sort of laser beam focused on, like, this is another job, and I wanna do my best. And and and then whenever when it comes out, it comes out. Because, also, the that's the the another theory is, like, everyone could be, like, amping this up, but then the show can come out and not do her or do you know what I mean?

So it's one of the things of, like, what do you hold on to? All these things can, like, come crumbling down like sand. So it's it's so, like, for me anyway, friends, family, like, my faith, like, everything just just grounds me. I had to really hold on to that, especially when my life was changing and seeing myself on billboards and stuff. I had to really remind myself who you are.

Okay. This is great. Enjoy it, Hayley, but also at the same time, let's let's go let's go facilitate a workshop because and also reminding myself of, like, this is why I wanna do this is why what I say in workshops and stuff. And now I can it can really hold weight because I can go and do all this stuff and then go facilitate a workshop, and it's like, I love that kind of dichotomy of, like, doing what I wanna do, the thing I love to do. That makes sense.

For sure. And you've spoken a lot about, like, how long it's taking you to get to this big sort of Netflix show and Mhmm. Sort of, like, if you would have got it in your younger years. Obviously, we know each other quite well. Yeah.

Last time I actually saw you, it was in Ghana celebrating your birthday. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Good times.

Good times. Good as hell. Let's just go back to, like, your sort of, like, introduction into acting. So I know, like, you didn't go to to, like, mainstream drama school or anything. Do you feel like that put you at a disadvantage to, like, everybody else in the industry?

Credential behind me of going to drama school, but I'm still gonna be an actor. I'm still gonna do what everyone else does. Like, how did you sort of navigate that? Yeah. Definitely back it back it back.

Does. Like, how did you sort of navigate that? Yeah. Definitely back back then. So this was we're talking, like, 13, 14 years ago.

I think the industry looks slightly different stamp in the industry and you or progressing in the industry. And if you didn't go to drama school, it's like no one's really checking checking with you like that. Like, unless, obviously, special cases where people would be seen or in plays or whatever, but I would say it was a little bit harder than it is now. I don't know, but I I I found it difficult. But when I started, I didn't necessarily want to go into acting.

Like, I didn't know I didn't think that was, like, my thing. I I enjoyed acting. I loved it, but my journey was very much like, I just wanna be in I just wanna be creative and, like, doing different things, like facilitation and then assistant directing and then write and then, like, acting. I knew acting was something that I wanted to do, but now looking around me and and my peers going to drama school and, like, really being on it, I was like, I know that I'm not like that. Also, I went to university.

I think university and then doing that little Shen with playing up Allie. I think that then opened my eyes to actually I could, like, sort of pursue this as a career, but I don't necessarily I can't afford drama school. I've just done 3 years of university. So this was just to just for people listening that this is Yeah. I was directing a show with National Youth Theatre, and Mhmm.

I think I needed a a kind of extra part. I can't remember whether you're an understudy. I don't know why I didn't have somebody. I don't know why someone wasn't cast, whether someone dropped out. I can't remember.

I just remember that I picked up the phone to you and said, we've got this role. Would you be able to come in and do it? Would you be interested? And from that, it was just something that maybe, made you have that experience and helped you to think about maybe that was something more you could do. Yeah.

For sure. Like and I always tell you, Ali. Like, everywhere I go, I credit. Everyone loves Ally. Ally.

It's the only one. Ally, no one literally was like, this is the only one. I think you I'll I'll give you the 10 pound note later. No. She could ask us to come do anything, and we will always come to you.

Drop it and do it. Honestly. Ali, I could say this on this book. You were my teacher. You were my teacher, and my a level teacher.

And I think that's when I first I couldn't do drama with GCSE. I was more of a music head. I played the flute. I was basically inclined. I was dancing as well.

I think in a level, that's when I took drama. That drama a level, that class, Ali, like, that really, like, allowed me to, understand the world of theater. And I think Ali's passion for, think that was when I first ever went to the theater. Oh, no. Maybe I went to the theater before, but I think that was when I first ever went to the theater before.

But I think that was when I first ever went to the theater. I think I think that was when I first ever went to the theater. Although, maybe I went to theater before, but I think that's when I first ever, like, really understood theater and good theater as well. You took us to, like, really cool shows, and I was like, this is amazing. And I thought, actually, so I'm going to uni, and I thought it English lit and drama.

I was like, maybe I would be a teacher, like a drama teacher or like a drama and English teacher. That that'd be cool. But then after doing that show, that Ali just mentioned, I was like, oh, no. And then there was also my uni lecturer, uni lecturer who was an active in industry was also, like, a huge role in terms of speaking into me and, like, saying, oh, no. I think you should reconsider this as a as a career.

You'd be amazing. You'd be good. Then I did National Youth Theatre. But then again, as I mentioned at the time, everyone that was becoming an actor went to drama school. That was it.

That was the sort of, like, the drama school acting, not drama school. I was like, okay. I wanna do this thing. I don't know I don't know how it's gonna look like. I think I should I think I just need to stay creative.

And that actually was a really good training ground for me of, like, staying creative, doing facilitation, assistant directing, just getting myself involved in creative projects, whatever that looks like, because I think that helped me sharpen my my different skills, but my creativity school. And I think when I was, like, 27, 28, I was like, I actually haven't really pursued this properly. I was like, I just wanna act with nothing else. So that's when I was like, okay. I'm gonna do this.

I think I built up the resilience at that point. You asked if it was harder. I'd say, yes. It was because, I guess, going to drama school, you were afforded those opportunities of meeting an industry folk as part of your class. You get showcases, and then agents come to the showcases.

Whereas not going to drama school, you have to sort of fight to be seen. To get an Adrian, you just need to be seen, really. But I guess now it's easier, because you could be seen anyway. You can go on Instagram. You can make your own self tape and stuff up.

Back then, it was it was slightly more challenging, I would say. I wouldn't say it was impossible. It was more more challenging. And then then I got my 1st agent when I done monologue slam. Yes.

Yeah. We got trifles. We got trifles. Something that really interesting what you were saying that even not it's not that long ago, but, like, things have changed. I I think rapidly.

COVID as well. You know, less young people seem to want to go to drama school. It's it has changed a lot. You would be less unusual now. But for people listening who are in that boat, who are either maybe thinking about applying to drama school or thinking about not maybe they've not got in.

What can they do? Like, how can you if you don't have that network that someone who goes to drama school kind of automatically gets, What can you do? How can you start that process, a journey of getting work and getting seen? If you feel like you're clueless, what can you do? Yeah.

I'd say get into, your local youth theatre depending on the age. And I know that age is a huge thing now because, like, what's the young person anymore? I'm more like a young person's 35. But up to 35, like, the bar keeps, like, raising. Yeah.

Keep moving it. Every time you move, keep moving. It's all walking in. Why? I'm a young person.

I need these opportunities. I would say for young people between the ages of, like, 18 25, a 100%. Get into your local youth theater. Like, if they have a youth theater, or even try and look for youth theaters across wherever you live, whether that's London and regionally. Like, youth theaters at the moment are doing some of that best work I'm seeing.

Bush Theatre, like, their young company is top tier. Stratford East, I would say because number 1, you're gonna be learning to work as an ensemble. Number 2, you're exposed to, like, the way the theater works because you'll probably be working in a theater. Whatever shows are on in that theater, hopefully, they can, like, allow you to see those shows so you'd be seeing free theater. You'll be working with directors, facilitators that are probably in the industry, and it's a free showcase.

Like, you get to, like, showcase your work, and you get to invite people to watch your work. So I'll definitely say get involved with that. Generation Arts, obviously. Obviously. Always.

Always. Always. Social media as well as where people complain about it. It's a really good plat really good platform. Loads of people are, like, doing their own thing now, setting up different communities, whether it's a writing community, different sort of projects that are being set up.

Follow your favorite directors, your favorite actors, your favorite writers. Follow all these people. People are doing, like, things like street casting now where casting agents are going on to Twitter and saying we need this or we need that. The main thing is, like, keep going. That's, like, my my slogan now for the last couple of years.

I just keep going. Keep going. Keep connecting with like minded people. So even classes, like, find your local class. I know classes can be expensive.

Once a month, like, go to a class, like, keep developing, keep pouring into yourself. Create your own work as well. I know it takes a lot of discipline. That's why I think you you're not an island to try and connect with people who's who who is, like, on on your level or, like, slightly, like, or further gone further into the industry, so you wanna sort of, collaborate. Collaboration has helped me so much in my journey.

Like, collaborating with different people has helped me, like and don't look down on on things that you think might be beneath you as well because you never know what opportunity it can bring. Like, you just never know what a, like, opportunity can bring as long as you're excited about it. Yeah. Yeah. Everything is definitely connected in this industry.

Mhmm. And talking about connections and and hustles and all of that, obviously, you've spoken a lot through the podcast about a lot of the other things that you do. Can you just talk to us a little bit about what those things are and and and how they all sort of work together or don't work together or give you that sort of encouragement to keep going when acting is not always there? So I work mainly in arts education. So, and I facilitate.

So, I facilitate for Generation Arts, and different sort of, young companies, arts provisions, project. I mainly work with young people. And the reason why I chose to do that as, like, I won't even call it a muggle job, is I I like it. I value equally as acting, I would say. I love it.

I absolutely love it. And I think it's important. It helps because there's a lot of dry periods in acting. I feel like I'm going through 1 now. But I think it really help your mental well-being if you're doing something that you enjoy.

Like, you wanna get up and, like, out of the bed for, and you find joy in it. And I know, again, I'm I'm speaking from, like, slightly privileged place because it might be half for someone, if acting isn't what they wanna do and there's nothing else that they can think of. But I wouldn't really encourage people to just sort of, like, don't see yourself as, like, sort of one trick pony. Like, write down all your strengths, write down different things that you enjoy doing and see you don't necessarily have to make money out of it, but seeing whether there there are gaps where you can sort of, like, find a job in that or something adjacent to it. I always told myself if I'm not acting, I need to be I need to find myself in a vicinity where people are creating and doing stuff, and I love collaboration as well.

So, yeah, my main things are just working facilitation and then working in education. So I go to schools, deliver workshops, drama based, talking about different things. I do, Black History Month workshops as well. And I started, like, a little storytelling thing. I don't wanna call it business because but I I was asked to come and storytell for, like, a a a festival, and I've just been through that.

Again, it just stumble across things. People have been asking me to come back and, like, deliver, like, little storytelling sessions to young Wait. Tell us more. So what is it? Like, monologues or, like, is it just a just you doing it?

Yeah. So stories. So I do interactive stories based on West African stories or, like, Afro Caribbean stories. I'll do, like, a Nancy or I do story building. So I come up with I've come with different props, and I'd allow the kids to create their own story with the props I have.

But these props are, like, like, West African based, so I'll I'll call it, like, Black history stories, but just yeah. That was, like, a literal like, that wasn't meant to be like, not wasn't meant to be a thing, but I went in. I delivered a workshop at school. Then the person from the school saw me and was like, we've got a festival. Do you wanna come to the festival, and do some other stories you may have?

So then I had to quickly, like, come up with stuff. And then I've done that, and then I went to the festival, and then the woman saw it from the festival, like, oh, we've got this event. We'd love for you to come and do it. So I'm winging it really. So that's the great thing about actors.

We could do every other picture. Everything. This is your I'm winging it. It's your toolkit. That's so good.

That's so it's so important. Like, we always say to young people we work with, at Generation Arts about you just never like, you you you said it earlier, like, don't devalue any job you do because you never know what it's gonna lead to working with. And if you do a good job, you're professional, you're on time, all that stuff, you know, you did that. She was impressed. She's asked you to come do something else, and it's led to this whole thing.

That's a work story. Impressed. Yeah. But, oh, yeah. I would say just to jump off that point as well, one thing I have to say, and I always say this as well, like, the power of kindness is so underrated, especially within our industry.

And I feel like Say it one more time for the people in the back. The power of kindness is so underrated. But I think, like, that has been that sort of the pinnacle, the key of everything that I've been able to achieve. Yes. You can be the most talented person in the world.

But if you are not kind and kindness is different to nice. Niceness is, like, okay, nice. But also people that could be walked all over are nice as well. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, the kindness is like a real it's a it's I think it's deeper.

It's like a choice. And you could be the mentality of the person in the world, but if you're not kind, no one would have worked with you. Like, who does who wants to work with the unkind person? And I've noticed it as well. Like, this industry is about recommendation, people recommending you.

And I don't have to say, like, maybe that's why I got locked with I I don't know. Those the the reasons I have no clue. But, like, whenever I show up on a set, any set, like, I just make the decision. I'm just gonna be kind to every single person. Like, when you're on set, there are so many people.

You meet so many people. And and don't get me wrong. There's some times when you just need to be focused and zoned in with your character, but that doesn't mean that you can't be kind. Being kind for kind's sake not to get somewhere. Just being kind is, like, it's so cute.

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for that. I never wanna sort of, like, make every black actor have a issue. Do you know what I mean?

Like, everyone comes into the industry like, I'm black, and I got a issue. Here it is. Like, we're not that's not what it is. But, obviously, there are challenges and obstacles that we face that are different to some of our counterparts. So what are some of those challenges that you faced and and and how you've overcome them, not just that, oh, this is the problem, the the the like, things that and solutions that you've used and the techniques that you've used to say, let's move past this or or this is how I'm gonna challenge you or this time I'm gonna hold them to account.

Yes. So I'll start with Pontiff with Lockwood. I think me seeing that character I I didn't the thing is I didn't know that they they specifically wanted well, I think so because all the other girls are black when they auditioned. But they specifically wanted a black actress for this role. And then when I read the book, her race is not specific.

But when you would read it, you'd think maybe she might be white, but it is not like Jonathan Strauss didn't, like, sort of write any white features or anything like that. But when I got the role, like, obviously, that that's always not a fear, but just something that we have to just think about because the industry made it that way of like, oh, I wonder how they're gonna do this. And Locust is such an amazing experience. I'm like, we want you to have your natural hair out, and we will provide the means for that to be sustained because that's great when we done my natural hair, but, like, how we don't do this? Because in that my hair needs to be washed and trimmed, like, making sure, like, all that stuff.

They got me a black hairstylist who knew black hair and, made provisions, and, like, I would go to set, like, earlier or all that stuff so to make sure that everything was just provided for. And that was just such a a great experience. I'm like, it doesn't have to be this hard. It generally doesn't have to be this hard. I've had to learn to really advocate for myself, which is not fair.

But I say it's getting better. Slowly, but surely, it is getting better. I think in the past, hair and general just look wise, it's always been a thing to consider. I'm like, what's my hair gonna be like? And they're just like, oh, well, you know, it's something that they haven't actually thought about.

And then and then I find myself having to do stuff to accommodate what they haven't actually thought about. Ain't it funny as, like, a black actress, the first thing when you get audition through, the first thing you think about is how should I do my hair? My hair. Yeah. Like, because that is gonna tell you so much about the character that you have a c on the piece of paper or the character that supposed to be portraying from a book or a TV series carrying on or whatever it is.

Yeah. And it's just like that's the first thing you think about is, like, oh, how should my hair look? Yeah. And it's crazy for the industry to not consider that that is a big thing for all of us, and it's never ever, like, there's never there's never really been addressed on a serious level. It's just crazy.

It's so funny because when I worked, for example, Run It Back, the play that I've done, it was black creatives, black cast. And, like, we had a whole day on, like, and, like, the director was like, okay. Can you what can you do with your hair? And it's just like, oh, this is how like, it's supposed to be a conversation, like, you know, that you could tell that we would actually consider because obviously, we consider because the black director's lived experience as well and I'm not this is no like, I'm not giving excuse to, like, white people. No.

But, like, you need to make the provisions. If we're gonna do this diversity inclusion stuff, like, we need to actually action all this stuff and not just say that we do it and not actually do it. Actually do it. And they've got companies, like you said, like, you'd done run it back for Tarawa, which I watched, and it was a great show. And, obviously, it's sick.

But they've got companies out there that they can have as consultants that they just don't use because, to be fair, they don't value them as a company anyway. But Right. Anyway, we'd digress. But I just would encourage anyone out there just to advocate for yourself. Like, I don't have to say that, but I I used to be, like no.

I used to be, feel kinda am shy to speak out, and not everyone feels comfortable speaking out. That's why it's so annoying because it's, like, actually companies that you shouldn't we shouldn't have to be the ones saying stuff. But if you can, just know that you were well within your right in a room to be like, what's gonna be done about this? They're like, oh, you could do that. Okay.

What's the budget? This whole thing about all of the different roles you've done and jobs and just trying to keep creative and the highs and the lows and sometimes doing this amazing work. And then next thing, it's been canceled. If you're not doing it anymore or you're doing a show, then you're out of work. Are there times where you think, do you know what?

I just wanna pack it all in and go and work in an office or get a 9 to 5. What kind of keeps you getting up in the morning? Reminding myself why, the why, the why. Why did I fall in love with this in the first place? Don't get me wrong.

Like and even last week, I was like, what's tech saying? Like, oh, how can I get into a career in tech? Just, yeah, reminding myself why I enjoy it. And that can come through many different things like journaling, going to the theater, going to, like, an exhibition, or just keep on, like, basking myself in creativity for the love of it. Yes.

I love this, but I have to, like, keep hold of me and, like, life. So because it'll kill it'll kill, like, it'll kill you. The rejection is not is not easy at all. Oh, I got rejected yesterday. Wow.

It's so nice that I can say it's a role that I forgot I auditioned for because I always make sure that, like, trying to find joy in each day and, like, living life. And I know that's hard because we're not customer advisors. Like, even just doing things that bring you joy internally, sometimes it might cost money, but, like, I'm carving out those little pockets of, like, what do I enjoy doing? Why do I like doing this thing? Because of, like, when I go on stage, and I I I just I love stories.

I love stories. I'm like, I'm gonna find I'm gonna watch things. I'm gonna go to places where I know that their story is gonna be told. It's not gonna lead to a job, but it's gonna keep me going on this road of, like, creativity and why and and acting and why why I want to do this as a career. And, also, I would also say, don't be afraid to pivot.

Like, people are like, oh, if you're not acting, then you're not really doing anything. That's a lie. That's a lie. I'm so sorry. Like, with this career, like, there there's so much so so many times, even after Lockwood came out where I had to pivot, like, I thought that we would get renewed for a second series series, and my role would have been even more bigger.

And I'm and then we and then it didn't. So that was like a pivot to me. Like, I'm like, okay. Then what what am I doing now? Like, don't don't be afraid to pivot.

Looking at the future of your career, what what do you see coming for you, or what would you love to see coming for you? And go big, girl. Send out those messages. Part of putting a story together. I wanna be part of the parting process or not in the casting process, but, like, like, I just wanna bring people in.

I love that I bring new people in. Like, that's why I facilitate actually because I'm like, I love when people ask me, oh, hey. Did you know do you have any, like, people that you know? I'm like, yes. All these young people from Generation s.

There you go. Yes. I worked for this person, and there you go. Oh, yeah. I know that person.

Our industry to be more community based in terms of, like, how we operate on things. Like, sometimes when I see a role, I'm like, I don't think this role is for me, but I know he would be brilliant at that. I've just had a whole bunch of words. Take what you will. Thank you so much, Hayley.

Honestly, it's always a pleasure to catch up and to talk to you and see what you're up to and what you're doing. Thank you so much, Hayley. You. It was lovely to speak to you. Thank you.

That went so quick that I was like, hang on. 

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