I SURVIVED the Humboldt Broncos Bus Crash and WON Amazing Race Canada!

What happens when love, resilience, and the unthinkable come together?

Emily explores the powerful journey of Tyler Smith, a survivor of the Humboldt Broncos bus crash, and Kat Kastner, a passionate mental health advocate.

Not only did they overcome unimaginable challenges, but they also became winners of The Amazing Race Canada.

Emily explores their inspiring love story, their dedication to mental health advocacy, and how they’ve transformed tragedy into hope and healing.

Listen For:
03:37 - The Day That Changed Everything: Ty Reflects on the Humboldt Crash
16:21 - When the World Moves On: Coping with Public Grief
38:33 - The Amazing Race: A Journey in Resilience
56:10 - The Ripple Effect: Why Sharing Your Story Matters

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Guest: Tyler Smith & Kat Kastner
Website | Tyler’s Instagram | Kat’s Instagram

Contact Emily:
Instagram | Website 

Transcript

Emily Cave Boit (00:00:00):

Hey guys, I am so excited for episode four. Our guests are two incredible people and I'm so happy that they found each other. Ty, who is a humble Bronco survivor and cat, who is a big mental health advocate, what they do and sharing their stories and vulnerability with the world has inspired so many. And on top of that, they are the Canadian amazing race winners. So excited to dive deeper with them and for you guys to learn a little bit more about Tying Cat. Hey guys, how are you doing?

Tyler Smith (00:00:51):

Good, good. How are you?

Emily Cave Boit (00:00:52):

Good. Oh my gosh, thank you for coming on. I've been super excited to talk to you guys. For those that you don't know who you guys are, I did a little intro at the beginning, but would love to hear how you guys met, a little bit about you, Kat, a little bit about Utah and your guys' story.

Tyler Smith (00:01:10):

Go ahead.

Kat Kastner (00:01:11):

Yeah, so we met about six years ago, almost six years. It'll be six years in January for us. Tyler actually slid into my dm.

Tyler Smith (00:01:20):

Love

Kat Kastner (00:01:20):

That the old story goes, and it was not on Instagram, it was on Visco, like a photo sharing platform. So random, I didn't even know you can message on the app. So I was more intrigued with the messaging function than I was like, what is going on here? But it worked. I mean it stood out. So yeah, we started chatting and then about a week later I was in Calgary at the time, Tyler was from LeDuc just outside of Edmonton. So I was like, what are we doing here? Let's meet in Red Deer and have a date and figure it out. And then I think the rest is kind of history.

Tyler Smith (00:01:51):

I brought her to my friends and friend Christmas party with probably 80 to a hundred of my closest family and friends. Wow, you were free. And it's definitely a Christmas party where it's just like everybody just has a great time and a couple too many cocktails, but she did great and people loved her and I was like, I think that was the moment, the classic moment where it's like I knew right from then, but I think, yeah, when she can handle my friends and family like that, with all of that chaos going around, I think that was a pivotal moment.

Kat Kastner (00:02:20):

I remember driving there and thinking, what am I doing right now? And then my sister was calling me too on the way, my older sister and she was like, what are you doing right now?

Emily Cave Boit (00:02:27):

Checking your location, being like, is she okay? Where is she? This was not

Kat Kastner (00:02:31):

Calgary. Yeah, I really have never done anything like that, but it worked out. It was all good.

Emily Cave Boit (00:02:35):

That's awesome.

Tyler Smith (00:02:37):

Then yeah, so I grew up in la, duke, Alberta. I am an Oilers guy. I do love our Oilers. But yeah, I am a humble Broncos survivor as well, obviously. And I've been able to public speak about the journey since that day and it's been quite a path that never thought I would be on. And as you know, life takes you in some weird paths sometimes and you never expect to be where you're at or doing what you're doing. But it's been pretty profound and pretty impactful in a lot of ways. And I think I've really leaned on the people around me and obviously Kat has been a very instrumental part of where I'm at and what I'm doing and supporting what I'm doing. And because with it comes obviously a lot of travel and a lot of time away, but it's also, yeah, I know I won't do it for the rest of my life and I really do enjoy it now, but she's been incredible in that process.

Kat Kastner (00:03:37):

Yeah, a little bit about my background, I guess. I grew up in Calgary, born and raised growing up. I played during it actually, so I was an athlete for majority of my life. And then my mental health journey started as a teen, and then it really came to the forefront when I was in university. I got diagnosed with anxiety and depression and just went through some things right around the time I was meeting you. And then the journey, it's a journey that happens every day and we continue on the journey. So I think I'm a little bit more behind the scenes these days. But yeah, it's been an amazing journey together and kind of championing mental health together.

Emily Cave Boit (00:04:10):

It's been awesome watching you guys. I think support each other I think is the thing that I love the most. And obviously Kat, I don't know you and just meeting you now, you're amazing. I've watched you on the Amazing Race with my parents. I'll get into that a little bit later. And then Ty just meeting you briefly, but through the hockey world, it's been really cool. Unfortunately I feel bad that you guys have to share your stories and your struggles, and I wish that no one had to go through what you guys have gone through, but the way that you've taken the tragedy and help so many people has been including myself, has been really amazing to watch. But I do have, just going into different parts of this, going back a little bit to just because I actually remember the day of the Humble Bronco crash and just talking a little bit about that with Utah, I remember I was sitting in the Dunka Donut center. Colby was on the ice playing in Providence. His mom was beside me when we got obviously them being from Saskatchewan

(00:05:26):

When we heard it and just there was no words and there will never be words for what you and so many families and your friends went through that day. Do you think, I always say there's a before and an after with trauma and grief. There's the Emily before I lost Colby, as I'm sure there's the tie before Humboldt and then there's the tie after Humboldt looking back on the day and processing, I don't know if you could ever process it. Is there something that was pivotal or no, pivotal is not the appropriate word for you. How can I word this appropriately? Is there, I'm pretty blunt, so I'm trying to make this, I feel like I have this different humor since, not humor, but words.

Tyler Smith (00:06:18):

I'm a dark humor guy.

Emily Cave Boit (00:06:19):

Yeah, this makes me feel a little bit better. I feel like you have to be open to it a little bit. Just looking back on the day, was there certain parts of that day or was it all just a blur?

Tyler Smith (00:06:35):

Yeah, it's interesting. Obviously I've heard a lot of stories about people remembering that day. And I think in a weird way, I actually really do find it comforting to hear of people's stories of that day. Kat remembers what she was doing, I think not just our generation, but there's a lot of people that will forever, just like that is a day that you knew what you were doing, you knew what was going on, you knew who you were with, how you found out the news. But for me, it's hard to believe, but I actually don't remember that day. I think with, you said it perfectly with trauma, there is a before and an after, and I think even with Covid, we talk about Covid as before Covid and after Covid. But I think for me, I don't have any recollection of that day. And I think in a weird way that is a major blessing in disguise in my life, and

(00:07:32):

I've had to embrace that now. It has been very difficult. I tell this in my talks, but with grief, you do in an interesting way. You do want to remember a lot of the last smile, the last laugh, the last memory, the last good time, the last, this last that I've had to come to terms with not being able to remember the last. And I think that's something that I still have a hard time with and I still struggle with because grief is so profound and I've had to really try and find a new way of moving forward with my grief rather than before I was so consumed with trying to knock on my brain be like, remember please, you need to remember. But I do know now, and I've come to terms with the fact that it is a major blessing in disguise and something that I think I can embrace now because the mental and emotional trauma from that day is truly something I can't even fathom.

(00:08:32):

And there was even, I just did a speech in Regina or Lumsden, sorry. And one of the young girls came up to me and said, my grandpa was the fire chief first on scene that day, and he's never ever talked about it to any of us. It's interesting you hear a conversation like that from a young girl who's probably pretty curious because she was pretty young from that day, but at the end of the day, it impacted so many people and it impacted so many people in such a different way. So navigating that individual journey of not remembering has been unique to say the least.

Emily Cave Boit (00:09:08):

Do you think, so obviously we come from very different forms of trauma, but trauma in the same, I feel like a lot of it was a blur for me too, which again is a blessing. I do remember some key points, and obviously I've had people tell me some key points, but it's interesting to me. Two questions here is do you find that you have random triggers at times that bring you back to that moment, or do you think it's just a blur that there's no triggers that you would even think be triggers would be one question and then Yeah, just yeah, I'll get you to answer that question first.

Tyler Smith (00:09:54):

Yeah, the triggers thing, I think for a while, not remembering. I think I almost forced the triggers on myself being like, this should be something. You need to feel something you need to, why are you not? And I think I would almost put myself in that mental spiral to feel something. And then now I've learned to embrace the trigger in a little bit more of a different way. And I've tried to actually enjoy the not enjoy the trigger. That's not really I guess what I'm looking for, but if a song comes on, I think I have

(00:10:32):

Feel it.

(00:10:32):

Yeah, I have way more intention with it now and actually like, okay, I'm going to feel this and I'm going to, it's not a sense of I just instantly burst into tears or anything, but it's a sense of I'm allowed to just like sit in this and feel it rather than I would before. I think I would probably forcibly tell myself that you have to shed emotion or you have to do something or you have to feel something at large. Whereas now I understand that there are triggers and there still is, and there still always will be. But I think I can go about that path in a little bit more of a different way. But still, I mean, I think there is certain moments where it can consume you and it is very just ah, sometimes you just don't want it, but you have to. And I think it is a part of, obviously a part of the grieving process and a part of the trauma process where those are moments that are tough and excruciating, but it's still important to feel. So

Emily Cave Boit (00:11:40):

That makes sense. And I totally feel, I feel that. I feel, especially as years go on, if a song comes on and my first reaction to cry right away, I feel like guilty,

(00:11:56):

If

(00:11:56):

That makes sense. And that's a little bit of the survivor's guilt that I carry. But you said something interesting the leading up days. So for me actually, and you're talking about the last smiles, the last, trying to remember those. I actually find the days leading up to Colby's death are harder now for me than obviously the day he died is going to be the worst day. But the days leading up, it was his, I remember his last meal and it was salad and a thing. And I feel like that's hard for me because it's like, what did I miss? Or for you, I don't know for you, but it's like they were doing something and I should have said something. And I think that's a part of a survivor's guilt that a lot of people really close to grief carry. So I don't know if you have felt that in a way or

Tyler Smith (00:12:57):

I think, yeah, I think you said it perfectly with just the guilt aspect of it can be such a simple thing, but I think it can consume you in a way that I think it's more just for me, the unanswerable questions, just truly the questions that you will never get answers to. And I think that's something that I had to come to terms with. And I know that I'll still ask myself why,

(00:13:27):

And I'll still ponder of why ask why that day, why everything? And then I think you still carry that. For me, I carry that thought of you could have done something, there had to have been something that you could have done. And I think that's still part of that relationship with your own survivor's guilt of there's only so much that you can carry. And I think if you, even last night I was in Regina and I was having this talk, and this girl asked me when we were talking about gratitude, and she's like, when you write in your gratitude journal and you are writing all these things, do you feel an overbearing overwhelming sense of you have to do more and you have to constantly be up and you have to constantly just try and achieve and try and do everything that's best for and do yourself and the people around you.

(00:14:21):

And I think that's something that I've just really had to try and find a balance with of I'm just trying my best. And I think that it's funny because I've had this conversation so many times afterwards with people that are just like, you can see that people are just truly tracking their best every single day, and sometimes it's just not enough. And that only comes from within where you feel like it's not enough. But truly getting down to the basics and just resetting and remembering that those simple steps sometimes are what you can be proud of and not trying to overwhelm yourself with, you could have done more or why did that? I think, I don't know. For me, that's something that has really been, I've had to try and process that and get through that more gracefully than I would've before.

Emily Cave Boit (00:15:10):

Yeah, for sure. Do you think, I think I've had to come to terms, this was such a blessing and I think slightly a curse at times. And I know for you, you experienced at some level, do you think that sometimes the media surrounded a lot of it took was almost a distraction, if that makes sense. I remember when Colby passed away, there were so many interviews and there were so many whatever, and I look back and I read some of those interviews and I was like, how did I ask these? How did I answer these questions? How was I doing these? And it was a blessing in a way because they're helping share his story and keep the legacy alive. And that's the worst thing going through grief is you don't want anyone to be forgotten and all of that. But at times, looking back, I feel like maybe the deaths being so public and in the media, it delayed the grief a little bit. And then when the media for me, I found when the media started slowing down, it almost hit me like, oh, people are starting to forget, if that makes sense.

Tyler Smith (00:16:21):

Oh yeah, you hit on some perfect. I think the delaying of the grief aspect, I remember, I mean, I kind of remember, I kind of don't, but I remember the weeks afterwards, I think I really wanted to just curl up in a ball and just never come out. My parents, my mom especially, did a very good job of protecting me from all the requests and all of this. And then I found it hard because I have so much love for people because of what people did for us. And I think that's, I'm not saying I carry that weight of constantly trying to give back and share my story and hopefully make

Emily Cave Boit (00:17:00):

You feel like you owe it a bit.

Tyler Smith (00:17:01):

Yeah, I do. And I don't do it in a sense where it's like, I feel like I need to do this and it's my duty and I have to, but I think I have so much love for people because of what we experienced and the love and support aspect, and I know what people can do when we come together and I know what we can do when we come together as a collective to uplift and to support. And so for me, I think the distractions with the media and the distractions with my phone and the distractions with everything was truly just a way to just delay everything that was going on because I also just didn't want to take that first step. I think with the hockey background, the masculinity side of things, I think there was a lot that I was still trying to figure out on my own.

(00:17:48):

But yeah, you said it perfectly. There's my favorite book Tuesdays with Maury, and I remember, yeah, it's truly one of my favorite books. And it's funny because I've read five books in my life, but it's still number one for me. And he said it perfectly where it's like he got out of the hospital and he noticed that the world was still moving on, and he said, shouldn't the world stop? They know what's happened to me. And I think I really had a hard time with that once the weeks passed and people started living their life again, which I get it, the world moves on. That is the simple fact of life where the world still has to move on. But then he said, do I wither up and disappear now because that attention is not there anymore? Or now I think a big reason as to why I still talk is I want people to extra acknowledge that day every time I talk, even though I'm only talking about the humble Broncos and our team and what we had for maybe five to 10 minutes of my talks, it's still important for me. And I still feel like it's something that, once again, you said it perfectly where the biggest fear with loss is forget it is like people forgetting your person and you never ever want that. And you know that people won't forget, but it's still something that

(00:19:09):

You carry.

(00:19:10):

I think why I still talk is I carry that with me where it's like I want people to, every time they hear me talk, acknowledge, truly, just reset, take a step back and just acknowledge that day. And I think I'm still navigating that perspective of, okay, you're doing this for you and you need to remember to find that balance and you can't carry that weight, but it's still a way to remind people of that day and all those amazing people that we lost. And yeah, there's a lot that I unpacked, and that was a long-winded answer to that.

Emily Cave Boit (00:19:45):

No, but there's a lot of beauty and truth in that answer for sure. So Kat, you obviously remember that day, so when he slid into your Vesco dms, your future husband did, you know, obviously knew he was one of the survivors.

Kat Kastner (00:20:09):

Yeah, I actually don't know if I knew you were, because I looked at his Vesco page and I knew you had played on the Humboldt Broncos. I don't think I had known your status. I don't think I even followed you on Instagram at the time.

Tyler Smith (00:20:22):

I followed her and I was just waiting and I was like, okay, well maybe I'll try Visco because she's got too many followers on Instagram that are, anyways,

Kat Kastner (00:20:31):

Yes. And then I think it was about six months after we started talking, six months after the accident, and it obviously just came up in conversation at some point. And I had shared that I've had some mental health struggles as well, and if you ever need to talk, I'm here and I think people should feel their feelings. And I've pretty much always been an open book about my mental health, and I shared kind of that with Ty, and I think that was maybe refreshing for you to hear someone just be so open about it.

(00:21:04):

But yeah, I remember that day and then when we started talking, I knew going to meet his family and friends, this, this was different than anything else. These people had just gone through such an experience and such a tragedy together that for me to step in there, that wasn't lost on me into how heavy that was to be bringing someone new into that circle and to your biggest support system and how integral everyone in your life had been to you those last six months that was never, ever lost on me, still is never lost on me. And I carry so much respect and love for the people who were around you in those really hard six months. And that was something I carried in when we first started talking. Yeah,

Emily Cave Boit (00:21:46):

You nailed it so well there. And I was going to ask you about this a little bit later on, but I think that was the perfect intro to this is it's coming into, whether that's a relationship or meeting someone that has gone through an unfathomable trauma, it can go one or two ways really, and I think you have done it so gracefully. I think speaking on my family and friends, I feel like sometimes they really struggle. And myself too, when you meet new people or new people try and come into your life and they just don't recognize the obvious or they aren't gracious about the obvious, and it can be tricky and it can be very hard to navigate. And one of my best friends actually said it. She was a bridesmaid in me and Colby's funeral too or Wow wedding.

(00:22:54):

There we go. And she said, no one will understand what it was like after the day Colby died. We had already lost Colby, but every single day after that, we were also fighting to keep you alive. And we were so worried we were going to lose you too. And I think that is just so beautiful how you hold such a space for obviously not just Thai, you're married, but his family and friends too because they were a part of that and had it not been for them, he wouldn't maybe be here and their love and support. So I think that's just, I love that you do that and I think more people need to do that. So you are doing an amazing example on loving him and his family. Well,

Tyler Smith (00:23:45):

And I want to touch on that too. I think that was right before we met was when my bill of mom just plain out and said, you're going to promise me that you seek help. And that was the first time in my life where I just, I was hit with the simple fact of hurt people, hurt people, and I was really starting to hurt my people, I think because I wasn't coming to terms with anything. I wasn't to this process. I wasn't ready to go on this journey. And I think for me, when I originally met Kat, I'm so grateful for my support system and my people, but I think in a way it was almost really refreshing to have somebody that wasn't involved that six months or that seven months or whatever it was, because I needed to get to a place where I could embrace this simple fact of this is a part of me for every day for the rest of my life.

(00:24:41):

But also I needed to embrace the fact that I can move forward with this and I need to open up my mind and open up my perspective to the fact that I got to stop comparing. I didn't want to put all this weight on all my friends and stuff, which is why I didn't open up. So I got to stop comparing my story and understand that there's common ground, there's simple things that we didn't go through the exact same things in our lives, but I can learn from her and she can learn from me and we can pick up stuff that can open up our perspective a little bit more and can further deepen our relationship, which I think our relationship and what she brought to the table for my family and friends, I think really did help in a way, it's a

Emily Cave Boit (00:25:24):

Breath of fresh air

Tyler Smith (00:25:26):

And it was a breath of fresh air, breath of fresh air, but it also was building blocks for me with my other relationships from those seven months of like, okay, this is great. I'm bringing somebody new into my life that has a new perspective and didn't know me at the time and is coming in just wholeheartedly, just yourself, so I can use this to hopefully better some of the relationships that have kind of been at a standstill for some time because I wasn't ready to open up because I wasn't ready to be vulnerable. So yeah, I just wanted to touch on that.

Kat Kastner (00:25:59):

Yeah, I appreciate that. And I think the one thing I've always said to everyone, and the hardest thing for me was admitting the three words, I need help. It's so brave and so vulnerable to be able to just say those three words. And I think that was one really big takeaway when we first started talking was being able to just say, Hey, I need help is so brave and so vulnerable. And I think that really kind of started us opening up about things and just started our journey of healing in a way, I think together.

Emily Cave Boit (00:26:28):

I think you nailed it there, cat, the ability to be like, I need help or I'm not okay, is so important. And being able to, when someone says that and to get down, I feel like there was a quote that I saw and it was just the ability to get down on someone's level and help them through a trauma or through their struggles or through their mental health. Then just standing on the top and being like, oh, you should do this. Where if you get down on the level and work with them and support them, I think is just we need more people like that. We need more people like you guys.

Tyler Smith (00:27:16):

Yeah, I think I had a misconception even originally when I was opening up to people or when I thought about opening up to people, I was like, okay, if I'm going to open up, you've got to give me something instantly. I need feedback, I need advice. I need something that I can implement into my life. And I think once I started to open my mind and open myself up to the mental health journey, I realized that honestly, it's a lot about just creating a space and just listening, just purely being a good listener. And you don't have to be that perfect advice giver, that perfect expert on this, and just opening up a space where being a good listener is actually way more valuable than offering something sometimes.

Emily Cave Boit (00:27:57):

I agree. I agree. I totally agree with that. Yeah, I think just being able to listen and not cast judgment or whatever it may be, because everyone, like you said, everyone's struggling. Everyone has their own type of trauma or mental health struggles. Do you find, this is just a random kind of question, do you still going to hockey games and watching or playing or cat, I don't want to say enjoy, that's definitely not the appropriate term, but going to the Humboldt Bronco ceremonies or if there's something, do you like being a part of that cat or do you want Todd to do it, or I feel like you do a really good job and obviously honoring that and supporting Ty and what he needs.

Tyler Smith (00:28:57):

Yeah,

Kat Kastner (00:28:58):

Yeah, I've always said it's your story and I'm your support. So I think also with the other survivors, they have amazing partners as well, and we get to see each other every year and it's always really special and we get together, but it really is your guys' story, and I think it's just we're there to support in any way we can in the best way we can always.

Tyler Smith (00:29:24):

Yeah, I think I originally had a fear of like, oh man, my hockey love is going to be gone. And I did go through that where I just, I couldn't be smitty anymore. I knew that, I think originally when I left Humboldt the second time, I was nervous and I was very frustrated about my relationship with hockey and what I was like, every time I walk into a dressing room, I'm going to want to see faces that I'm not going to be able to see anymore. And I think that was something that just rocked me because I was like, how am I going to going to a rink anymore and enjoy it? And I went back and played junior B in my hometown with a lot of the buddies that I grew up with. And I think for me it was such a simple thing, but it was just like it gave me a reason to love the game again and love going out there.

(00:30:18):

I mean, it helped that it was so there wasn't a demand. It wasn't like I was trying to be a pro hockey player, get a scholarship anymore. I knew that we're playing on a Friday night and then afterwards we're going to go have some drinks and have some banter and have a good time with the guy. And I think having that newfound relationship with, I can just be carefree out there and I can sing on the ice and I can just do what I love again and kind of get back to the basics, I think propelled me to really start enjoying the rink and enjoying the comradery again, and enjoying the fact that I understand that what we had in Humboldt was the Mount Everest of comradery and the Mount Everest of a foundation of what a team is built on. And now I can hopefully bring what we had a little bit and implement it into new dressing rooms and new rinks that I go into and just I can get back to being me. And I think that originally I never wanted to get back to being me because a dressing room guy through and through, I love the dressing room. I just love being around the guys.

Emily Cave Boit (00:31:25):

What's your go-to song in the dressing room? Can you say that or is that a secret?

Tyler Smith (00:31:31):

I don't know if I have a go-to, we don't even have a speaker on our beer league team, but back I would say Miami by Will Smith is one of my will Smith is after the slap on national tv. We don't maybe love him as much, but yeah, Miami by Will Smith is one of me and my buddies good songs. But yeah, even coaching now, I love coaching. I love going to the rink. I got practice today at four to five, and I'm looking forward to going to the rink and just seeing the kids and just having little conversations with the kids. And

Kat Kastner (00:32:08):

That's been really fun to watch you do hockey from a coaching perspective and you kind of just fell into it. But we're going on year four, you're four now.

Emily Cave Boit (00:32:15):

Wow, that's amazing.

Kat Kastner (00:32:16):

And that's been really special to watch, to see you move through hockey in such a different way, in such an impactful way to these young players.

Emily Cave Boit (00:32:23):

Yeah, because I hate this saying, I feel like I go back and forth with it some days. I hate it, some days I love it. Everything happens for a reason. I don't think you will under, I don't like saying it because I feel like that takes, Colby shouldn't have had to die and you shouldn't have had to go through the crash. However, there is beauty in seeing all that has been done and so many lives that are being helped and changed unfortunately because of the tragedy.

Tyler Smith (00:33:02):

Yeah, no, it is funny. I kind have the same,

Emily Cave Boit (00:33:04):

It's like mom is a firm

Tyler Smith (00:33:06):

Believer. My mom is a firm believer that everything happens for a reason. And after my mom's upbringing in what she went through as a kid, I constantly think to myself, how does this woman have this perspective? And I am never going to be fully there, obviously, and I think you're the exact same way, but understanding that there has been difficult roads lead to beautifuls that destinations. And I think to see the impact from widespread, even just the Logan belay effect and green shirt day and organ donation, that's something that has truly transcended something that needs to be talked about more and needs to be done more like organ donation. And it has come from the loss of bulls, but to see what Toby and Bernie have done, that's just one thing. But there's been so many incredible scholarships, foundations, this giving back impact that I've tried to embrace that everything happens for a reason a little bit as well, just because in times it is true and you can see it and you can truly feel it. And seeing that really does give you that joy and a little bit of that comfort in knowing that this is also a way to remember, and this is also a way to honor.

Emily Cave Boit (00:34:28):

When they started the Colby's Kids memorial fund, we were all still so in shock and processing things. And it took me a while to be able to really, in the beginning when I saw kids wearing his name on the ice and all of that, there were so many emotions. And I think that comes with grief. I wasn't angry at these little

(00:35:00):

Children

(00:35:01):

And I wasn't jealous of, but it was like he had to die and I had to go through all of this so they could, but it's interesting how now I'll look at it and just almost beam with pride. How amazing is it that these children are learning how to play hockey or there's the psychiatric fund at the mental health hospital and all of that. And now it actually brings me so much comfort where in the beginning it was not comfortable at all, but I think grief and the stages and all that, that you go through grief, and I feel like the stages are never ending, to be honest. I feel like everyone's like this stage, this stage, this stage, this stage. But they keep going. I think because at different aspects in your life, things will happen that will trigger it back to a stage that you thought you were or an emotion that you thought you had worked through. And I think that's just grief and the part of grief journey,

Tyler Smith (00:36:09):

Even to touch on that, I can't remember who sent it to me or how I found or what it was, but somebody sent me this excerpt on Reddit and this old man wrote about grief. And this old man was like, I've lost friends, parents, children, this, that. And he kind of put the analogy of it's like a shipwreck. And originally the waves are 10 feet tall and it feels like the ship is all around you. And he said, as time goes on, those waves become five feet, those waves become two feet. Those waves become few and farther between, but they're still very much there. And then another older gentlemen commented on this and said, this is a beautiful way to analogize or put the analogy to grief, but also if you don't feel this, don't feel like it. You have to feel this way and you have to go through it like this in this process.

(00:37:07):

And I thought that was pretty beautiful because originally I couldn't cry and I couldn't do this. And I had a woman come up to me after one of my talks as well, and she said, I went through the exact same thing where I lost my husband, and it's almost been a year. And for the first however many months, she said she couldn't cry. And she's like, what's wrong with me? What is truly wrong with me? I just lost my partner and I can't even shed a tear. So it's interesting, honestly, understanding and recognizing how people go about their grief and how it hits them honestly, I think is the best way to put, it's just

Emily Cave Boit (00:37:41):

Everyone's different,

Tyler Smith (00:37:42):

Truly how it approaches them and how it hits them in different forms. And I thought that old man analogy with the shipwreck is perfect because it's true. There's some days where it feels like it's just right there, and then some days where it's a little bit wider and a little bit farther, but then it just hits again. So yeah,

Emily Cave Boit (00:38:04):

I agree with that. It comes in waves. I always say sometimes the waves are big and yeah, sometimes they're small for sure. But I did watch your guys is I'm not is amazing Race included as reality tv. I should really watch TV to be honest. But my parents were watching The Amazing Race. They moved to Edmonton after Pulley Festival

(00:38:33):

And I picked up on it, the cave and Gill House were cheering you on anytime someone didn't give you a clue or whatever. My mom was feisty. She was like, that is so rude. How could someone do that to them? She was feisty about it. I feel like you had so many people rooting you guys on, but I remember, I feel like I remember talking about it, I remember the finale and when you crossed the line, you were talking about how you kind of did it to honor your humble Bronco brothers. And it reminded me of a saying that I've always said for Colby is, if not with you, then for you and the power in that, I feel like obviously we didn't go through the same loss, but what you helped me through watching my loss of Colby are so many people around the world that were in Canada that were watching.

(00:39:38):

It was the beauty in that you did all of this in honor of them. And I can only imagine how loud it was in the hockey heaven dress rooms of cheering you on, being Smitty and all of that. You got the game winning goal and you won the amazing race. But I cried, my parents cried. I dunno if I messaged you that I cried, but I was like, Mrs. Yeah, you had so many people. And Kat, again, just watching you support him during that was just so beautiful. Also rare. I feel like a lot of people when there is trauma, they don't know how to address it or sometimes they stand away. And the way that you respect that, again, I'll say it multiple times, is just so well done. But take us on how that happened, how you guys got on the show to winning to you saying the next thing was a ring and now you're planning a wedding. The whole journey.

Tyler Smith (00:40:55):

Oh gosh,

Emily Cave Boit (00:40:57):

That kind of just came out

Kat Kastner (00:40:57):

Of my mouth, by the way. There was just no thought. But that's, they're going to take

Tyler Smith (00:41:02):

That. Yeah, they ran with it.

Kat Kastner (00:41:04):

We had laughed earlier in the season. There was the one challenge where you had to get down on a knee and it was like, will you marry me? And then I was like, oh, if I had a ring

Tyler Smith (00:41:12):

Foreshadowing.

Kat Kastner (00:41:12):

And then, yeah, anyways, that just kind of came out. But here we are.

Tyler Smith (00:41:16):

But

Kat Kastner (00:41:18):

As for how we got on the show, yeah, we had applied, they had gotten in touch with,

Tyler Smith (00:41:25):

Yeah, it's funny. I mean I come back to everything Happens for a reason thing, and we were originally going to go on and then Covid happened and then we were going to go on again, and then a week before, so we were supposed to go on the year after Covid and a week before I got appendicitis. And so we were set, we had our backpacks, we were packed, we were ready to go. And I already have tummy problems just from the accident, and I just thought it was just status quo, one of my tummy issues, drink some water, get some Metamucil in me, and it didn't go away.

Kat Kastner (00:42:07):

I had a feeling it was a appendicitis

Tyler Smith (00:42:07):

She knew and I was in denial about it, I think because we were very excited for this. And it was truly just an opportunity where this is a good relationship test as well. And we've done a lot. We traveled to Europe three months after we met. She's really brought it out of me of just like, let's get out of our comfort zone and try and just go do things in adventure. And then we got on, and I think we went into it with really no expectations. We went into it wholeheartedly, let's have a ton of fun. Let's truly be ourselves. Let's laugh. Let's just be hopefully a light and just have fun. And I think that shined through and I hope that shined through. And I think that was something that hopefully people gravitated towards where it's just like we just tried to truly, even in just the hard times, try and find a way to just have fun. And I think the pivotal moment was the pole climb, and you can probably touch on that. It's again one of those moments where it's like you have to almost reach that low, low to really Tessa Virtue, I think was the one who actually said it. She said, you have to experience those lows to sometimes fully embrace those highs

(00:43:22):

And that pole climb.

Kat Kastner (00:43:25):

Yeah, we had had a pretty good run so far, but by the end of it, I mean, you've been on the road, you're isolated, you don't get to talk to your friends or family back home, you don't have a phone, you don't have a wallet. And it's really just you and your partner when the racing day is done, it's just you and your partner. And that's just kind of how the show works. And by the end of it, definitely it weighs on you. It's all you're thinking about. Is this all star race crazy. And then, yeah, you had gotten to that pole climb and it was hard. We were in last, we hadn't been in that spot, but when I had been in those moments of having those lows prior or just those feelings, it had been remember why we're here and why we're doing this and how lucky we are to have this opportunity and be able to tell this story. And then when you had been up there, I just remember thinking, let's remember why we're here in the first place. And it really is, as you saw it on that episode, something clicked

(00:44:20):

And we just somehow turned it around that day,

Tyler Smith (00:44:24):

But still even

Kat Kastner (00:44:26):

Off

Emily Cave Boit (00:44:26):

For people that didn't watch the episode. Do you want to explain that a little bit?

Tyler Smith (00:44:30):

Yeah. So it was a semifinal. Four teams left and we're in Toronto now. Toronto already is just a chaotic city, and I remember, I think it was a Leafs playoff game. There was a blue Jays game. It was like 32 degrees outside, and the first challenge of the day, you had to repel up a 90 foot pole. Now this was a challenge where one of us had to choose if we're doing it or who's doing it, and I chose to do it. And I originally thought to myself, okay, I'm a man. I'm tough. I can do this. And I got halfway up the pole of repelling up, and then she looked up at me and yelled, remember who you're doing this for? And at this time, I was done. I was so spent, I joke about it,

Kat Kastner (00:45:10):

You had nerve damage in your arm from the accident, and basically the whole challenge, you're pulling up a rope using your arm strength.

Tyler Smith (00:45:17):

And I couldn't grip an orange. It actually was a little so swollen. It was actually a little frightening, I remember, but I couldn't grip an orange or anything. And I joke about this in my talks, but I was like, my eyelids were sweating, my ear lobes were sweating. I was done. And she said this. And then I got to the top and I got back down. But I knew at this moment we were in last place by a long shot. And I always tell this is kind of hopefully a inspirational thing of failure and in life when you fail, it's so easy to get into that mental spiral of just consuming yourself with you failed, you're going to be the reason that you don't make the finale. Why did you do this? You made a mistake today. I remember I even got to the ground, and I won't say what I said, but I looked at our favorite producer who might officiate our wedding, truly one of the salt of the earth individuals in our life.

(00:46:06):

And I looked him dead in the eyes, and she probably remembers this, but I looked him dead in the eyes and I said, F this, I'm done. Leave me here. I can't do this right now. I am the reason that we are not going to make the finale. And it kind of gotten to those moments where Dr. Jody Carrington is her name, but she says it perfectly where it's like, find people to walk you home. And for me, Kat is somebody that will always walk me home and always be there for me. And I kind of had to look at her and flip that switch of like, alright, we're good. We're just going to reset. We're going to try again. We're going to just going to see what happens next. You never know what happens next. And I think honestly, we talked about it, but that was a big reason as to why we actually won is going through that complete low of just being at the bottom and just having nothing and no motivation and then just flipping the script. So

Emily Cave Boit (00:47:00):

I love this saying about walking each other home. I feel like that's all what we're all of us in this world. We're just truly walking each other home. That's one of my favorite sayings. And also what a privilege it is to grow old is another of my favorite things. But Ka, going back to that moment, did you have, I feel like hearing the story, I had chills, I'm starting to tear up. Obviously you knew the power in those words or saying that to him, but did you think the weight of that one comment would alter everything, if that makes sense?

Kat Kastner (00:47:44):

Honestly, you were in such a low that I was like, I don't know how this is going to go. And I remember, yeah, I remember even saying it, and I looked over at the camera crew and production and they kind of looked at me with big eyes like, okay, we're going there, but you got down and you were like, I'm done. And I was like, we're not done. No, we're not. We got to keep going. And then we reset. We ended up getting last in the next challenge as well, and then had another time penalty. So it was just not our day. But again, I think being able to make it through that day, despite how terrible that morning had been for us, was the biggest thing we took away from it. But it was an emotional morning. It was a hard morning. And it's like, again, we had given so much of our life to do this show, and we had been isolated for the last however many weeks and trying so hard every day. And it was like, if we lose it at this point when we're so close, it was going to be tough, but somehow we pulled through. But yeah, it was thanks to I think, your attitude that day after and

Tyler Smith (00:48:50):

Made it. And then funny, I tell this story too, but it's crazy. When we go back to the hotel that night, I can't remember what she was doing, but I wrote, brought a journal along with me and we journal every little bit here and there. And I remember I wrote my journal. I said, thanks for guiding us, thanks for supporting us, thanks for loving us. And I finished that journal entry with just one more day that just one more day being the finale. And obviously I was writing to my 16 angels. And then it's crazy. I found two dimes in the hotel room that night, and don't

Kat Kastner (00:49:23):

Even have you

Emily Cave Boit (00:49:23):

Started on the sides.

Tyler Smith (00:49:26):

Don't

Emily Cave Boit (00:49:26):

Even get me. So that's a whole other podcast.

Tyler Smith (00:49:30):

It is truly the moment where it's like you can almost get, it was just like that perfect moment where it's just like, oh gosh, I needed this. And it was that perfect moment. And it's wild that when those signs come sometimes where it's just in that perfect moment that you need it. And truly, I still have the two dimes. I found three on the race, but I found two that night. And I'm thinking to myself, this room just got cleaned. How is there two random dimes just hanging out in this hotel room, this random hotel room? And yeah, I still have those two dimes. And I think once again, it was a big motivation for me. Yeah,

Emily Cave Boit (00:50:11):

I think signs are, I think it's like, I think for me, and I don't know for you signs, especially in the beginning, actually, one of the best advices that a young widow gave me was to write down and date every single sign, big or

(00:50:28):

Small. Oh wow.

(00:50:29):

Since Colby died. So I have a whole book, whether that was a song that randomly came on, rainbow diamonds, butterflies, whatever, that you just know that it's them sending you a sign and sending you love. But I'm a firm believer in science.

(00:50:48):

Yeah,

(00:50:48):

I could talk about signs for a long time. And yeah, the beauty in that, and just when you don't think you can take it anymore, I a sign from heaven or your loved ones or your 16 angels is honestly, I feel like an adrenaline shot to keep going. It wakes you up,

Tyler Smith (00:51:15):

Truly.

Emily Cave Boit (00:51:16):

I think sometimes signs can make me a little sad depending on the situation, but I find now I am always so happy when I get assigned. So I'm so glad that you got those two times because the feeling you get can't be described unless you've experienced something like that. But what was the final episode? Did you guys know you were winning by a long shot? I feel like filming's kind of hard the way that the public sees it compared to probably how it's filmed and goes. But did you guys know it was close? Not close? What?

Kat Kastner (00:52:03):

Yeah, we both woke up that day and had a feeling we're like, this is ours to lose. If we have a good day, we can do this. And it was all good until we had left our backpack that had our IDs that we needed for the challenge. I still can't even think about that. It gives me, but it was so close near the second half of that episode of the finale and just, it really was so close at the end there. I dunno how many minutes, but it was so close. We didn't know until we really were running and we saw the mat and that no one was there. And then we were like, okay, I think we did it.

Tyler Smith (00:52:49):

I think that was the really neat part about the race is you were racing against other people and you knew most of the time where they were. But at that moment when we were in the taxi on the way to our final mat, we had no idea. We were in one-way, construction traffic. So we were freaking out in the backseat.

Kat Kastner (00:53:09):

Perfect.

Tyler Smith (00:53:10):

Yeah. Oh gosh. But it was really, that day was full of moments of, if that didn't happen, we wouldn't been able to. The cab driver we got, there was so many,

Kat Kastner (00:53:22):

Everything happens.

Tyler Smith (00:53:23):

Yeah, I know. There were so many pivotal moments that you look back on. It's just like, if we didn't get Eddie as our cab driver, we probably wouldn't have won. There's those

Emily Cave Boit (00:53:33):

Little moments. Where is Eddie now? Do we still talk to Eddie?

Tyler Smith (00:53:35):

We haven't. We've only been back to Halifax once and we haven't been able to locate Eddie. But yeah, it was funny. I remember when we left to go do our final run, we looked at Eddie and we just gave him this envelope of cash. And I was like, Eddie, I don't know how much is in here, but I just want to know. We might never see you again, but thank you so much for today. And it was funny, I was just like, we spent all day with this man who was a very just simple reserve guy, but did anything for us was like, do you want me to run this red light? Do you want me to speed? I'm like, I don't know, Eddie, you tell me. But yeah, he came into our life, into our race at the perfect moment. And also, I mean that final crossword challenge, people don't realize the gravity and the weight of what that was because we knew Tyler and Kaylene were at the crossword just below us.

(00:54:31):

So then I'm constantly, she had to, throughout the race, I was always kind of entertained by other people and trying to figure out what other people are doing. And Kat was always very good at being like, okay, no, we're running our race. Stop. Let's do our thing. And I think in that moment when we're doing this crossword where your mind just goes blank, I started to think about what Tyler and Kayle were doing, and then they asked for a check and we're like, oh my gosh. The most emotional day that I've probably ever experienced or we've probably ever experienced.

Emily Cave Boit (00:55:01):

Yeah.

Kat Kastner (00:55:02):

Yeah. I couldn't agree more.

Emily Cave Boit (00:55:04):

Listening to the Eddie, it reminds me of one of my favorite books. It's like the five people you Meet in Heaven.

Tyler Smith (00:55:09):

Yes. Sumit Alban. So good.

Emily Cave Boit (00:55:12):

One of my favorites. And just how, yeah, don't, I'm pretty sure isn't the main character Eddie in it too?

Tyler Smith (00:55:18):

Oh, it might be. I'm listening to the audiobook right now. Yes. I think,

Emily Cave Boit (00:55:21):

Yeah, the fixing the,

Tyler Smith (00:55:24):

Yeah,

Emily Cave Boit (00:55:24):

And just the impact of, I'm sure you don't know what's going on in his life and you handing him that envelope and the power of a small gesture or a big gesture in someone's life can completely change everything. And I think that's what I love about you two is the power and the impact of you being vulnerable and sharing your story. You're making on so many people. You have no idea the ripple effect until we get to heaven or until you hear later on. Whether you believe in heaven or don't believe in heaven or whatever. Your faith may be the power of all the people you've impacted through your life, which I think is really cool. But yeah, hands down, one of my favorite books is The Fat People.

Tyler Smith (00:56:10):

And I got to tell one funny story. So the Amazing Race, it was pretty neat. And especially after the final mat when Kat was hopefully a ring on my finger, you wouldn't believe how many rural moms were coming after me being like, where's the ring? Where's the ring? I'll put the ring on her finger. Where is it? Where is it? And truly, it was so nice because obviously this last six and a half years, there has been quite a, I don't want to say spotlight or anything, but there has been a lot of attention around me. I guess I'm not trying to make it sound like that way, but

(00:56:46):

It

(00:56:46):

Was so neat on the race because it allowed people to really understand and learn about Kat and also just really see how phenomenal she is, especially in those situations. And it was funny, I was in Guelph Ontario one time, and I tell this story every time I do a talk, it's hilarious. But this lady came up to me, and this was pretty recently after we won, and this lady came up to me right after my talk. There was 200 people there. She was the first one that came up to me and she looked me dead in the eye and she was like, the only reason that she won the Amazing Race Canada is because of Cat. And I was like, whoa. I was like, oh my gosh, that is So, I don't know if that's backhanded. I don't know. I love to hear that. You think, I truly believe that too.

(00:57:28):

Shoot's superstar. And then I was like, okay, there's got to be some sarcasm, some humor attached here. And I was like, did you see me on that sea? Do in the last episode, trying to get something out of her. And her friend looked at her and was like, do you want a picture with Ty? And she said, no one just stormed out. And I'm like, oh my gosh. I was like, oh my gosh, people really did believe this. And I was like, you know what? This is great. I love Kat and I'm glad she's getting this attention. But I was like, oh my gosh, did I do nothing? No. It was so funny though. I tell it

Emily Cave Boit (00:58:00):

Every time. It's like Canadian girl crush on Kat.

Tyler Smith (00:58:01):

Yeah, truly. And she was, yeah, it was truly indescribable. I was so taken aback. I was like, oh my gosh. I was like, I now apologize every time. Kat's not with me.

Emily Cave Boit (00:58:14):

That is amazing. I love

Tyler Smith (00:58:17):

That.

Emily Cave Boit (00:58:18):

Okay, one more question for you guys both. Obviously you can talk about Humble or now Kat, you can talk about your mental struggles. But for me, when we were talking about sitting and listening with someone, I remember it's actually probably one of the most powerful stories of showing up for someone other than obviously my parents and my sister, but Colby's billet mom, who is, I'm so grateful for her. I can't even begin to describe how close we are. I remember the day, I remember the morning Colby passed away and I called them and it was 3:00 AM and she told me We're going to get through this together. And she, without fail every single day since has texted me good morning, we're almost at five years, was at my wedding with Colin with, and that was, she wrote me a letter on my wedding morning and she talks about every single day since Colby died, I was so worried for you and made sure to text me good morning and that she loved me and that I was loved and that Colby was proud of me. And she was like, it's a bittersweet day to day. I feel like kind of handing that torch away,

(00:59:42):

But just the example of her showing up so many times in such a small gesture. Obviously it's a big gesture, but sending a simple text every single day because Colby wasn't here to text me. Good morning. Colby wasn't here and she took that on. So is there anything, looking back on your grief journey and both your mental health journeys that really stuck out in showing up or what you would give advice to people to how to continue to show up?

Kat Kastner (01:00:16):

That's a great question and so profound, I think, to explaining your story and what you went through and how much of an impact that had. I really think it is just those small little moments throughout the day where it's like you don't know how much it means to you when someone does something like that or sends that text. And for me, I think it's, I have such a amazing friends family and Ty who just, again, like you said, they show up and they're willing to listen to me. And if I'm having a bad day, there's no judgment. There's just having someone who will just create a safe space for you to be able to say what you need or be there when you're down and whether it's a text or it's just listening, just being a good listener I think is so valuable. And I really think it's just being able to listen and create a space for someone.

Tyler Smith (01:01:08):

Yeah, I mean I could probably touch on my bill of mom too. My Bill of Mom, like I said, was a main reason as to, I think a main reason as to why I am doing what I am doing today. She still is obvious. I love my bill of mama. She still gets worried about me doing too much and public speaking a lot. And I think to fully understand her intention when she said, you're going to promise me that you seek help is now something that I've processed and she's a leader in my life because of that. Because I mentioned that she did not have to say that that day. She truly could have just left me beyond my way to go figure it out. But with her saying that it really put me in a position, the classic of you put yourself in somebody else's shoes and to understand the pain that she was having because of her billet son's pain is a real, real shock, was a real shock to me.

(01:02:09):

And it allowed me to finally put myself first and actually take those steps and do what's best for me. And even a couple weeks ago, we were in Humble quickly, and I was with Raz and we were doing some stuff and I was like, I got to go see my billet parents quick. And it was so cute because they were at the dinner table having dinner with their current billet and I didn't even tell them I was coming. I just showed up and Nancy got off from the dinner table and just ran over to me and gave me a big hug. And it truly was, I just felt like the most amount of love and comfort and peace. And this is just a woman that had me in her house for six months and my bill dad is mean. I could talk about my Billit dad too, but my bill of mom saying that was, she's truly a leader in my life because of her saying that. And with the courage it took to say that. So I mean, I could go on about Cat, I could go on about my mom, I could go on about my brother, my dad. But yeah, my Billit mom comes to mind for sure.

Emily Cave Boit (01:03:14):

I have definitely said a lot through this journey. Obviously I didn't know Kolby during his bullet years at Swift Current, but billets do not get enough credit.

Tyler Smith (01:03:26):

No.

Emily Cave Boit (01:03:26):

I feel like they take in no offense, but young boys, young

Tyler Smith (01:03:31):

Messy men

Emily Cave Boit (01:03:32):

That can be a handful at their prime age. Literally. Yeah. Literally the most. Colby is in so many ways, like his billet dad, it's absolutely crazy to me because you would think, obviously they're not blood and they don't have the same types of mannerisms or the way that they, whatever, but they had Colby during such crucial years that I think they don't get enough credit for also making him the man who he was. And I say that to them all the time as I thank them for the years that they had Colby because they made him into the man that I fell in love with and is like, it's such a privilege for Colby to be my husband and to be his wife. And they deserve a lot of credit because he wasn't their blood son. He wasn't their, but what they did. Yeah, I always say I am team. I'm like billet family fan club

Tyler Smith (01:04:35):

Because

Emily Cave Boit (01:04:37):

They're incredible people.

Tyler Smith (01:04:40):

Some of the most selfless people that you'll ever meet.

Emily Cave Boit (01:04:43):

But yeah, they do have to handle a messy,

Tyler Smith (01:04:45):

Oh gosh.

Emily Cave Boit (01:04:45):

It's like the worst age of, yeah. There's some stories that I've heard from Colby's time or other billets times and i's like, God, bless your souls. You deserve, I dunno if it's a noble peace prize or

Tyler Smith (01:05:02):

Deserve something. Yeah,

Emily Cave Boit (01:05:04):

Something. But yeah, I'm a team V, be family household here.

Tyler Smith (01:05:10):

Heck yeah.

Emily Cave Boit (01:05:11):

Grateful for them. Well, thank you guys so much for chatting. I know you're busy, but looking forward to following your journey, the wedding. Thank you.

Kat Kastner (01:05:22):

Yes, thank you for having us. It's been a wonderful conversation.

Tyler Smith (01:05:27):

Yeah, thank you for what you're doing, em, I appreciate you and I know that we've been following each other's journeys a little bit here and there. And I know we're super proud of you and thank, we're so happy for you and Colin and yeah, we have a lot of love for

Kat Kastner (01:05:44):

What you're

Tyler Smith (01:05:44):

Doing, and so please keep doing what you're doing.

Kat Kastner (01:05:47):

Yeah, I want to think, share one thing for both of you, and it's something that Tyler's therapist actually said to him, and it's that your story could be the light, the light at the end of someone else's tunnel. And I think both of you have represented that so well.

Emily Cave Boit (01:06:00):

Thank you. Thank you very much. But enjoy Alberta for me. I miss it.

Tyler Smith (01:06:07):

We sure will.

Emily Cave Boit (01:06:08):

And thank you so much, Tim. Horns for me and some

Tyler Smith (01:06:11):

Smarties. Appreciate you.

Emily Cave Boit (01:06:14):

Yeah, thank you. Thank you. As you guys can see and hear after this episode, tying Kat are just incredible humans would love for you to continue to follow their journey on their social media handles that are in the bio and just encourage them on because what they're doing, the world needs more people like tying Kat, and it truly is an honor and inspiration to watch their journey and their relationship and cheer them on from Cali down here for me. So yeah, thank you guys so much. Obviously would love for you guys to share this episode or leave a review or a rating. I really appreciate it. But as Ty and I and Kat talked about, just remember we're all walking each other home. Be kind this week and go make someone feel loved.