Terminal vs. Sudden: Two Paths to Heartbreak

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Can widows rewrite the narrative of love, loss, and resilience?

Emily sits down with fellow young widows Demi and Jennifer to explore the multifaceted experience of widowhood.

Together, they unpack the differences between losing a partner to a terminal illness versus a sudden tragedy, the unique challenges of grieving with children versus without, and the misconceptions society holds about widows moving forward.

They also tackle vulnerable topics like dating again, navigating judgment, and setting boundaries, all while sharing wisdom, tears, and even laughter.

Listen For:
08:14 - Grieving Before the Goodbye
22:28 - Red Flags While Dating: Vulnerability Meets Naivety
36:11 - Boundaries and Healing: Lessons in Protecting Energy
48:47 - The Darkness We Pulled Ourselves Out Of: Strength in Survival

Guest: Jennifer Osler-Bolton:
Instagram | Website

Demi Venden:
Instagram

Contact Emily:
Instagram | Website 

Transcript

Emily Cave Boit (00:00):

Hi guys. Welcome back to episode five of You Are More with Emily Cave Boit. Super excited to have two of my widow sisters on the podcast today to talk about the different kind of stigmas that come with different forms of widowhood, terminal verse, sudden deaths, kids versus no kids, and just talking about widowhood in general and all the interesting dynamics that come with widowhood. So yeah, excited for you guys to hear what we all have to say. So super excited to have Demi and Jen on the podcast today. They're two of my widow sisters. Our group chat is pretty spicy at times, but we love each other for it. But Demi and Jen and I all come from different parts of widowhood, but we're all the same. We're all part of this club that no one wanted to be a part of. So we wanted to talk about a few things that kind of goes on with widowhood or makes you different in widowhood being terminal verse sudden or kids versus no kids and dating again, et cetera. So we're excited to dive in, but yeah, I'm just curious on your guys' personal, I know Demi Michael had terminal cancer and for Jen and me are Ryan and Colby's desks were more set. But I'm curious, what was your experience as a terminal widow compared to a sudden widow?

Demi Venden (01:41):

Yeah, well obviously I can only, it's not my side, but I would say in the widow world we are considered the luckier ones. And not that it's really luckier, but it is nice that we got to plan a bit more. We got to have a lot of great conversations at the end. I think when we're given a timestamp on your life, I think anybody's conversations would be different and the people you just love more fiercely. You have a lot of hard conversations that most people our age don't think about having. And so that was a great blessing of him being diagnosed. But the other hard part was he was diagnosed at stage four when my son was seven weeks old. So trying to manage being a new mom, a new wife and cancer, I mean got the being caretaker, it was just rough. I weren't wish out on anybody.

(02:40):

So while it may be nicer that we got have this conversation, but was just really tough just watching peer loved one decline so slowly and just really not knowing where it was going to go. I mean, you're given a timestamp. A lot of us. And also in the cancer world, the doctors will never promise you anything. They'll also never tell you which route to go down medically. So a lot of it is just this awful journey of am I making the right decision? I continue to walk them to climb. But yeah, it was, I would say pretty awful, but also such a blessing that when I got to have so many awesome conversations that what want for Declan in the future, even you marry had a conversation about me dating and what he wants with the finances. And so I'm just very grateful. I still have a lot of letters and even just now I'm using Michael's computer, I pulled up a piece of paper and he had written every login and password, everything on that. And that is something I do not take for granted because I'm sure you guys have experienced so many situations where easy cannot find a password to log into something.

Emily Cave Boit (04:02):

Well, I love that you're using Michael's laptop. That's special.

Demi Venden (04:05):

Yeah, I

Emily Cave Boit (04:06):

Love it. Do you think, as you were talking about being a caregiver, do you think that there was, I know obviously there was a lot of pressure on you. Do you think it's more people questioning you how Michael's doing and not thinking about what you may need as a caregiver too? I know your brother passed away suddenly as well and just the difference between you and your sister-in-Law and kind of the way that you were both treated, if that makes sense.

Demi Venden (04:39):

Yeah, I think a big life lesson I've had going through this is nobody understands and until, and that case for me for a lot of things too, even me becoming a new mom or walking through this before I even had kids, I was probably the worst friend to my friends who had kids. And so I try to have a lot of grace for people in our community or people who try to support us. He probably didn't check in enough or reach out enough because I will say the caretaking era was just probably the five season of my life and just burnt out. We needed a lot of help and I think a lot of people will say like, Hey, let me know if you need anything and that it's so sweet. But most of the time he'll never ask you or people will just check on.

(05:40):

Michael would text me like, Hey, how's Mike doing? Haven't heard from him and wanting updates on everything, but he is still burnt out, have the time and energy. But also there were so many times I just wanted to cry. I'm kind of okay as as you can do, but I was falling apart. I was trying to keep the family together. I was probably running on no sleep for the week. I was a new mom, not kind of be a victim or a pity party, but I had such a big part for people going through the caretaking world now because I would say that's one of the toughest seasons I went through. There's almost this sense of relief you have when your loved one beds finally passed. I know that sounds awful. It's not that I ever give up on a miracle for him, it's just that when you watch your loved one decline so tragically and horribly, it's like it is a better alternative, alternative for them to pass to be over. And so I would say there's also early grieving involved when you are a cancer widow. And I think that's something that a lot of people don't understand in my circle too, where a lot of 'em are still two and a half years later starting to slowly process that Michael was gone. We're starting to have to face those conversations. Whereas for us G Windows, it's like our everyday life. We don't get to escape it. And I would say I started probably slowly processing the day he got.

Emily Cave Boit (07:12):

It's interesting you say that obviously on so much, much scaler situation for me, when Colby was helicoptered helicoptered away and we were down in the basement, I looked at my mom and I feel like those four days he was in a coma. I started grieving a bit too because I knew and people were praying for miracles and I looked at my mom and I was like, I'm going to have to pick an outfit for my husband's funeral. I feel like you're so in tune to your partner, which is what marriage is all about, that you just know and it's not anything compared to what you went through and terminal and long-term with Michael, but there is something for being so connected to your partner that you just know. And it's not that you're not hoping for a miracle like you said, but at the same time obviously don't want them in pain.

Demi Venden (08:14):

Well, I don't know if one is worse than the other, honestly, because in my head I'm like, gosh, I cannot imagine it in four days. I wanted every last day with him. It was just either way, it's just so awful. But yeah, in my gut, I can't explain it. I never stop believing in a miracle and I would never stop being positive for Michael's sake. But deep down inside, I think also as women as protectors or trying to be self-protective also, and for me, for my son, I started to mentally process for my own in protection because I'm like, okay, worst case, if this were to happen, what do I need to do? How do I need to prepare? And it's not when I was at gate thinking about it all the time, but there's just something in the back of your head that you're like, okay, this may not last. He may not make it for Christmas. And honestly, Declan's first birthday wouldn't fall out because in my heart, okay, she's not going to make it to the next one. Think he did still.

Emily Cave Boit (09:23):

That makes sense for sure. Speaking on Declan, both of you guys have kids, so you guys have kids. I don't have kids

Demi Venden (09:36):

Full star.

Emily Cave Boit (09:37):

I can't imagine watching a child grieve their parent and help them through their grief while also grieving yourself. You kind of have to put your grief aside a bit, but I'm also not going to lie that I feel like people that don't have kids in their spouse dies. You wish that you still had a piece of them here earth side, because I feel like for me, there was a stigma that I didn't have kids so I was going to move on faster and I didn't need to worry about it, et cetera. So curious on if you guys had a stigma to having kids and that grief process as well. I dunno, who wants to go first Gen or Demi or whoever

Demi Venden (10:29):

This is Jen.

Emily Cave Boit (10:30):

Yeah,

Jennifer Osler-Bolton (10:31):

I feel like Jen's going to get out of this one. Well, my kids were 11 and 12 when Ryan died and he went to work and didn't come home. We didn't get to, so he went away to a fire that was north a couple hours north of home and it was like our normal routine when we were sending dad away to a fire, we'd walk him to the door and with a fire like that, we don't know if we'll see him in a couple days, a couple weeks, we just don't know. So it was almost this sense of an unknown of when we'll see daddy again. So it was like this, hug him tighter, say goodbye longer, that type thing. And then we sent him out the door and then yeah, I get the phone call that there was an accident and he just wasn't coming home.

(11:20):

And so having to tell the kids that, I mean that's not something I would ever wish on anybody to have to tell them. My son had just turned 11 two weeks before the accident and I remember going to their schools and pulling them out of class, which was obviously so abnormal. I was that mom who's like, no, unless we were all going to Disneyland, we didn't miss school. It wasn't that type of a common occurrence. And so almost immediately, both kids have since told me that when they were called out of their classroom, immediately they knew that something had to be wrong in order to be called out of school. And so walking them through that, I remember I was taught, I dunno, I was just speaking with Emily about this. I had taken a grief recovery course less than a year before Ryan died.

(12:11):

So I learned a lot of things. And so one of the things that I had learned is that with kids, you have to tell the truth. You have to be direct with them. As much as we don't want to have to say the words dead and died and that type thing, you have to because they're still young, even in 11 and 12 to say that we lost daddy today or daddy's in heaven or whatever it is, there's something that's still, even though they're a little bit older, still makes them wonder, well what do you mean we lost him? Or what do you mean he went to heaven? Or that type thing. So you have to be direct. And I remember thinking when I learned that, well thank God I'll never have to worry about the hat. I'll never have to say it. And I remember having to tell my kids there was an accident this morning and daddy died and I just said it and I could see for both of them it was shock.

(12:59):

My son literally was like, what do you mean he died? What do you mean? And it just was this knowing that I was just going to have to walk them through this, but being so direct with it and not hiding it from them and also not sugarcoating it with them. It was ugly and it was awful and it was terrible. But at the same time, I look at them now at 20 and 19 years old and they're some of the most emotionally mature human beings I've ever met in my entire life. And it's because I think we just kind of stepped into it when it was hard. It was hard when it was ugly, it was ugly and we just let it be that. And then when we would laugh, we would laugh. And when we just kind of were present in every single moment, and I think that that was the best thing that I could do for them as a mother was to, and also to let them see me do that as well.

(13:52):

I remember one morning I went to open up the blinds and I just right there on the couch just collapsed crying because I opened the blinds. It was just nothing. And both kids come running over and like, mommy, are you okay? And it's like I wanted them to see that it's okay would be sad because that part that's not going to last all day long. It's a moment and I want to feel that moment and then we're going to climb out of that moment together. So there was a lot of learning, a lot of mistakes I made for sure. I'm sure you can get my kids on here and they'll tell you about all the things I did wrong. That's part of motherhood. But I don't think that there was anything with losing Ryan. There are so many facets to losing Ryan. But I think having to see my kids and be the one to tell my kids what happened, watching them actually try to process that.

(14:45):

And I remember the day of Ryan's accident, Brandon came and sat next to me and he said, mommy said, is daddy really dead? I said, yeah buddy, he's really dead. And he said his heart will never beat again. So even at 11 he was trying to process what it actually meant. Death. It's a really hard thing for adults to process. So walking the kids through that was just, it was heavy. It was really, really heavy. But we didn't shy away from it. I wanted them to come out healthy. And I think that the only way to do that sometimes is to just face it.

Emily Cave Boit (15:20):

Demi, do you think it was kind of similar, I mean obviously Declan was more younger but him now, do you think he understands it? I know your mother-in-law sees him quite a bit too. Michael's mom and are doing a great job, being open and sharing about his dad. Do you think he fully understands it yet or do you think he has memories or

Demi Venden (15:45):

Honestly why? I hear Jen's side, and this is why I was like, this is totally Jen squad here because this is probably something I can't fully relate on yet. When I lost my brother two months before we lost Michael, his kids were a bit older and they fully understood it. And so I was just was sick to my stomach just hearing how they're processing it at such a young age. And then when Michael finally passed, I didn't have to deal with that. And so I got focus on jets, my grief, which is such a blessing. I do know it will come. There is just this giant void regardless for any kid, no matter what age they lose their parent at, he's just going to have to grow up without that. But yeah, it's actually funny. Few days ago we were just, well why? We were going through my Instagram and sprawling Andre get every single person.

(16:41):

So that's mommy, that's daddy, that's baby Dec one. And so he's very aware. And Jen, I love that you said that because sometimes I feel like I'm being too upset with my kid. And so it's very validating. He knows. He goes, daddy died, daddy died and he's in head. And he had that very blunt conversation and he's the CC who is our dog. So he's aware that CC died and daddy died and they're in heaven together. And then at the end of this world, he just stays and his daddy now. And I don't think he's ever on his own that's been, and it's daddy, to be honest, I don't think he remembers daddy. And that also breaks my heart because you have to think Michael was also also so heartbreaking because what a loss that he didn't get to experience him on his own for that he remember. And so it just really speaks to how say I mixed audience. I know over time as he gets older, those conversation will evolve. Evolve. And Jen, that's super inspiring. I call validate your kids. That is my brain to be a very open mom of that. With Declan,

Jennifer Osler-Bolton (17:51):

I don't know if they would agree, but

Emily Cave Boit (17:54):

They're probably like, mom, stop. You're a champion in my books, both of you. Declan also I feel like is a mini Michael,

Demi Venden (18:05):

He's all gay. And it's funny, everyone said, oh, just like them be wired and white and it is straight. But then he starts working around people and dancing and having this big personality. I'm like, that's my fault. I was not that way when I lived here, so not

Emily Cave Boit (18:31):

That's awesome. That's awesome. Well you both are doing great in the grief mom journey.

Demi Venden (18:42):

Well, and how about, I'm curious, you can't touch base on not having a kid and how are you treated differently in that

Emily Cave Boit (18:53):

I think mean every single part of me wishes I had a kid with Colby still to this day, I think it would be a little piece of him here. So I feel like Chester is the last thing I have of Colby. So I'm so attached to Chester, but I remember, I mean I talk about it in my book, but in full honestly, I remember getting my period right after Colby died. We had been trying for kids and I remember it actually hitting me that we would never have a kid together and someone with his blue eyes and his red hair and his ears and his nose and that was really hard. And I think a lot of people just assumed, oh, because we don't have a kid, I'm going to move on faster or that I'm not held back as much in my grief, if that makes sense.

(19:58):

But it's also just so hard in different ways. I'll always wish that he also could have experienced being a dad, whether that was for a day or years, something that he also really wanted as well. I feel like Colby, literally everyone always has, Colby died on a high, he was in the NHL, we just got married. He was so happy. But the only one thing that was missing would've been for him to be a dad. So that will always sting. I feel like that will never go away. But at times too, things happen the way that they happen, whether we agree with them or not. But yeah, I would say that there was definitely a stigma or a judgment of oh thank God she didn't have kids. It would've been harder if she had kids or oh, thank God that she can move on faster. Where I'm like, no, that's not the case either. But I feel like in any situation, terminal seven kids, no kids, everyone just cast judgment on widows. Whatever we do,

Demi Venden (21:17):

Don't say that's the truth. Having a kid also gives you an excuse to keep the memory lie. Not that you need an excuse, but it's more acceptable. And I would say probably for you, you're probably not allowed today. Not allowed, but you know what I mean. For us, we always, I'll always talk about Mike and I feel like probably for me you feel like you're keeping the alive

Emily Cave Boit (21:42):

Totally 110%. But next hot spicy topic is red flags dating as a widow, public eye. People like grasping onto the tragedy, the stories. I feel like widows, I feel like we just want to see the best in so many people. So we kind of have our blinders on and we don't think that we're lovable again. And I think we make excuses or just are naive and I think we get taken advantage of. But yeah. Who wants to jump in first on the red flag?

Demi Venden (22:28):

I dunno what you're talking about there. I think Demi should just go for it. Yeah, I think Demi should go happily married.

Emily Cave Boit (22:39):

I know Jen and Michael are just the goals of remarried widowhood and then there's all the struggle buses.

Jennifer Osler-Bolton (22:47):

No, no. But we have struggles in other areas. We had to blend families and four children, so God can only give me one thing. He's like, okay, I'll make this part easy because the rest is coming, but we'll give you a

Demi Venden (23:03):

Be hard.

Emily Cave Boit (23:06):

Exactly. Do you think, okay, so me and Demi will get into this in, I'll just

Jennifer Osler-Bolton (23:13):

Offer my 2 cents

Emily Cave Boit (23:14):

Pipe in. I think it's safe to say that dating as a young widow, you don't think you're ever going to fall in love again. You kind of have a little bit of blinders on I would say, because you're almost grasping to anything. And I think you may ignore some red flags and signs, you just don't think that anyone would want to hurt you or anyone would use your husband's death and the worst possible thing that could happen to you against you or for their benefit. Do you think that's safe to say?

Demi Venden (24:02):

Yeah, so I think it's valid to not feel, especially as a widow that anyone's messed up enough to break their heart. And it's not just break it heart. Obviously there's going to be heartbreak. Some people are just not for each other. I'm very logical with that now I'd say. But yeah, I mean for me, dating again wasn't on the horizon, Michael. I took 30 years to find him and it was like an instant click and I just knew. And so I remember someone copped to one of his friends and said, Hey, if you start dating within a month or two months or five years or 10 years, we just want you to know what they say and we support you and we love you. And it's like you're time to live again. And I was like flabbergasted while I got compensated. I was like, oh my gosh, no, I'm not interested in dating right now.

(24:59):

Did I think I was never going to date? No, because I think it's so unfair. It feels so unfair when you are robbed when your person at such a young age. And I think there's less stigma too of that where people think like, oh well would or shouldn't move forward because they didn't love their person then. And it's just because we were handed this awful terrible thing in life. We also have to be lonely for the rest of their lives. And that just doesn't make any sense to me. And I think as humans, as we're all designed to find somebody and to be with someone and no one's meant to be alone. And so I went into it pretty open-minded. I very quickly would cut the off at date of it if it's not it. I just knew people would waste the energy of using box made lawn dates and then I was like, well, maybe I'm just not ready.

(25:53):

Yeah. And then obviously you guys know this situation, but I ended up finding somebody and went Hunter refuels and they gave me the widow word. I think that definitely helped in helping me for the first time and just sharing this common love for our partners and understanding that we still love their partners schools there. And he at point, that was best case scenario. I hated dad. He's also a widower. And yeah, at the end of the day, my cousin, we just spent a phenomenal man. Our marriage he had, we were firefighters together, but he had such a beautiful marriage, but I didn't really think anything bad about who I was. I didn't think that was possible. I just thought everyone was a great version.

(26:51):

I feel like my gut and sync would've been able to tell better at I'm like, there's just no way if you use a bad birth. I'm not saying you the backwards sink now, but think didn't get out know about a lot of things get learned about on payments task and financially. And so I'm outspoken about it now. Widow is just anything that quickly. I highly recommend hating Coleman for a year and this is coming from me. He got engaged very quickly. I just think that true Quinn does shine through employee start to see upward. They can only wear a mask. It's a long when usually on the eight month mark, people do start showing fruit colors. And so I've learned hard luck out there of just being aware of not being naive, even still taking your guard up a bit.

Emily Cave Boit (27:56):

I mean that makes total sense. I get that for sure. Do you think that, I feel like when obviously Michael loves you so well, Colby loved me so well or Ryan loved you so well, Jen, that you almost think that, how could someone else, how can I wear this? How could someone not in a say or I feel like I'm not wording this well? Do you get what I'm trying to say here, Jen? Do you know what I'm saying

Demi Venden (28:34):

Here? Yeah. One time and it was so funny and Andhold seeded, but it like Lynn, we get love bombed. We believe it because of course we're amazing.

(28:45):

But I mean truly to have a woman, and I'm just going to talk all you guys of right now, to have a woman who has gone through what you love, Emily, any man would be so lucky. And so a true man can see that and just really value and respect it. 100% valid. A lot of people don't get this way that wrong at our age. And so I think to have this perspective, and I've always said watch, if I get married again, I'll be a much better wife than I was with this friend because the lessons I've had and anything that I used to worry about just anymore, you leave your person you just love so differently. And so anyone would be a man should be honored.

Emily Cave Boit (29:33):

Jen, do you want to add anything to me? And Demi have said

Jennifer Osler-Bolton (29:43):

Yes because I feel like I've been fortunate enough to be the big widow sister just in age getting to watch you girls go through what you have and just the conversations that we've shared. And I do think, I mean, I know he was joking about it earlier, like, oh, God made it easy for me and Michael to meet, but because we were crossing countrys and oceans and for kids and God was like, let me make one thing easier for you guys because you're going to have other things to focus on. But I do also feel that, but that because I had older kids and because I was older at the time, I was 36 when I was widowed and I was, well, Michael and I turned 40 days after we got married. I almost feel like that was a little bit more, nobody wanted that.

(30:36):

You know what I mean? Nobody was like, that's too much. She has teenage kids, she's older. There was nothing in my mind, in my head that was overly appealing. So I feel like okay, it allowed me the time to just kind of, I dunno, be like, I think I'm going to be okay if I'm by myself, you know what I mean? And I do think that my age was a factor. I think having my kids older was a factor that I was just like whatever. Just kind of like whatever. And so I could kind of watch and sit back and see what was going on. And then I hear stories about just the dating world as a widow. And one of the things that I've seen, because again, Michael and I didn't date. It's like we met and I was like, yeah, I'm going to marry him.

(31:19):

And that was the end. There was no dating involved in that. But I see it. And then one of the key things that I see in young widows especially, and I think it's the same for just single women in general, but for young widows especially, there's a vulnerability that isn't typically there for other young single women because not only have you walked through huge trauma, no matter what type of loss, whether it was sled and loss or a long-term illness, it's a loss that just nobody expects to walk through at such a young age. And so there is a really precious vulnerability in young widows, but then that vulnerability kind of puts a veil over everything because it's kind of like what you said. Well, our husbands before loved us deeply and loved us dearly. So number one, why wouldn't anyone love us deeply and dearly?

(32:09):

Because we've already experienced that it wasn't a breakup, the reason we're not with our husbands. So there's that factor there. But then there's also like Demi was saying, knowing what you guys have been through, how could someone not love this person, this vulnerable, this precious heart that's just been broken and slowly piece back together. And so that's one of the things that I think is so beautiful about young widows. But then I also see it being taken advantage of a lot. And I think now I feel especially protective for my young widow sisters and I'm just like, okay, everybody hands off. Hands off. Because these women are so precious and they've been through so much, I kind of want to put everyone through a vetting process. Like, hi, you want to get to Demi? No, you actually can I see your credentials? How do you handle emotional situations?

Emily Cave Boit (33:01):

Send that resumes.

Jennifer Osler-Bolton (33:02):

Exactly. Just give them my email. Just send them to me. I'll be like, no, this one's not good. Demi already knows I've given her my gosh, her Instagram. I'm like, please, I'm going to need you to do that. She knows. She knows. And then, but Emily, even for you, everything that I've watched you go through even before meeting Colin and then meeting Colin, everything that I've seen, there's just such a precious vulnerability to young widows that I think on one hand makes you guys so incredibly special and unique. I truly feel, I truly, and this is not just because I'm a widow, but I really feel that anyone who's fortunate enough to be loved by a widow, they don't realize what a gift that is because not only is it they're getting your vulnerability and your willingness and your courage to say, okay, I've had my heart absolutely broken, but I'm willing to try it again.

(33:54):

I'm willing to do it again. So they're getting your courage, but then they're also getting your appreciation for life and for love. I can guarantee going forward as a young widow, you love harder than you even did before and you loved hard before. You loved Kby hard, you loved Michael hard. You love deep and hard. But now there's a different element to it. There's a different level of appreciation. And anybody who gets to experience that from a young widow, what a gift. What an absolute gift. So when I see men or I hear stories about red flags and all this stuff, I'm like, oh my gosh, no sleeves are rolling up, earrings are coming out. I will absolutely throw down if you're going to come in here and hurt my widow sister. Absolutely. You don't get to do that. She's so precious. So that's my 2 cents.

Emily Cave Boit (34:45):

We love you

Jennifer Osler-Bolton (34:45):

For it. I'm going to fight everybody.

Emily Cave Boit (34:49):

We love you for it. And I think it's really special that we can also look up to you like me and Demi and ask you things or talk to you about it and have someone like a big sister, but also understands the widows. And I feel like, yeah, you're really good at seeing things for the way that they are and helping guide us. So I know I really appreciate it. Demi too. So you are great at that.

Jennifer Osler-Bolton (35:32):

Listen, I'll fight anyone. Just send them my way. That's the other thing that comes with foot ahead, right? You're just like, I actually don't care anymore.

Emily Cave Boit (35:38):

It's actually so true. I feel like you do care, but at the same time you don't care

Jennifer Osler-Bolton (35:45):

At all.

Emily Cave Boit (35:47):

It's like you care in some ways.

Jennifer Osler-Bolton (35:50):

Yeah, there's no middle ground anymore. It's like I either love you so deep and so hard and I appreciate you so much, or I don't have time for this. I have no time for this because exactly, we know life is way too fragile and way too precious. There's no time for this. There's just no time for this. So that

Demi Venden (36:11):

Just dating too. I feel like that right there. I've learned so much the past few years with community people, former friends in Caucasian friends, and even just family. At the end of the day, if someone's being rude to you, dredging you or just being awful people toward you, it's like we have this such, they don't even know who investment is. We have such tough skin now. I don't think I've realized how much I didn't have boundaries before and this past year was the biggest lesson on boundaries on my energy, on my space, on who I light, my inner circle. And that's just been one of the toughest blessings was becoming a widow.

Emily Cave Boit (37:00):

I think you nailed it there. I feel like. Yeah, I didn't realize boundaries. You hear about it when Colby was so alive for sure. And I guess you had little boundaries, but now I'm like, I'm going to send a boundary there. I'm going to send a boundary there. Especially when it comes to certain things when people are talking about kolby or judging me or whatever on, they have no idea that I'm automatic done. I sound tough right now. I know I cried at a group chat being like, oh my gosh, is this happening? And I sound so tough, but it's, it's so important and I'm really working on it.

Demi Venden (37:51):

I'm not doing great, but I'm working. You're doing great. It's not gonna' hard either. It's the most part breaking thing to put boundaries up, but just knowing your worth and also knowing that half of those people couldn't survive the day. And also they freaking get it. They get this privileged wife and have their partner there and they get to just plan a wedding and have babies and along with their lives while they're judging you hard on everything you do and they just don't get it. And so I have just learned learn. I used to be very resentful about it, but I'm going to see now where I'm boundaries and they just don't get it. And unfortunately some people will get it one day, but I can't attach my emotions to see how people,

Emily Cave Boit (38:42):

Do you think it's actually so funny that you say that Jenu had posted something and I was like, nailed it. I feel like the people that cast the most judgment or don't want to divide about it or don't whatever are actually the ones creating the divide or are actually the ones making it more awkward or more toxic or more whatever. Would you guys agree with that?

Jennifer Osler-Bolton (39:14):

Totally. I think what a lot of people don't understand about widows is that we're already beating ourselves up the whole time. We're already questioning our own sanity. We're already questioning our own existence as far as are we whiting properly? Are we doing it properly? Are we going forward properly? Are we honoring property properly? Are we letting go properly? All of these types of things, people don't understand that we're already doing it to ourselves. We're already battling against ourselves with how we're handling something because we've never done this before. We don't know what we're doing. Every day is a day that we've never ever done. And so then when people who fortunately, like Demi said, don't know this lifestyle, don't have to have never walked these shoes, they just get to go about their lives and everything's great, and I don't understand why this widow can't move forward or move on or whatever it might be, they don't even realize that we're literally dividing ourselves in half between past and present.

(40:21):

And so they stand on that divide and they're like, pick one because you can't be in both. Pick one. And they have no idea that we're literally truly tortured inside trying to figure out how to pick one. How do we keep one foot in the past and one foot in the future? And it's really heartbreaking because they don't take the time to understand that or ask the questions or what does this feel like for you? Or what was your wedding day for you? Or what was it like to go and pick a wedding dress for your second wedding? Or what was that? They don't ask the questions and so they can't ever understand. Well, nobody understands until they've walked it, but they can't even gain a slight understanding of what this might be like or the fact that we are truly battling ourselves the entire time. I've never encountered a single widow who was like, oh yeah, I got this. I had no questions about it. I knew exactly what I was doing and how I was going to do it. She does not exist. She's nowhere in the world. And so it really breaks my heart because they do, they force the divide because they're telling us to pick one past or present, can't be in both, and we're already beating ourselves up over trying to figure out how to do that.

Emily Cave Boit (41:39):

Yeah, I feel like it comes down to, it's a joke with a few of my friends and family, but I pick up on people that will only stuff if it's about Colin or only stuff, if it's about Colby and it's like you guys are making it more awkward and a divide right there, we all just accept. But at the same time, that's where boundaries need to be set on my terms, which I'm for sure on.

Demi Venden (42:17):

We're all just trying to live again and survive. And even that takes a lot of credit. And then you nailed it on the head and you said they are not asking. And I like a friend of my mother-in-law office and people were to just ask me and get to know my part. Most people would not be staying that way or just, I don't know. And it's just so frustrating. No, we also live in a generation. People don't communicate. People are non-confrontational. And so they'd rather just cut out or pass judgments behind your back before just having a conversation with you and how he understands something he can never live. And also he won't even try to understand. So Jen, that's the best way to say it.

Emily Cave Boit (43:10):

There's so many professional widows out there that actually aren't widows. So many people think that they're professional at this all when they're not.

Jennifer Osler-Bolton (43:27):

Yeah, those are always my favorite. I would never, I could never, I would never. And I'm like, okay, well we were all there too. We were all, I thought I could never either, but here I am.

Demi Venden (43:37):

Seriously. I was the best parent of why had did exactly. You hear all the mom parents, I never did it do that. And you're like, okay.

Emily Cave Boit (43:47):

Oh my God, take a seat. Totally. And you don't wish it upon them that they learn it? No. Oh gosh. No. You wouldn't wish it upon your worst enemy, but it is wild, wild to me about it. It

Demi Venden (44:02):

Had allotted call it All Out now, but I Friends that were just demanding stuff from Michael's will, the stuff that Michael wrote as well for them. And after a year, where have you guys been? They haven't been here for us because also in Michael's goal, does it say that those people have to be here friends, he spoke privately to them and asked them all to be here for us and they haven't been here for us, but when it comes time to ask for their things, they're there. And so one of the things, Michael Will is very dependent on me and his mom. And his mom is just not ready for it. And so he is priority. Well, if she's not ready, nobody gets in below. We'll keep right, because it's all connected. It's just that we're doing ass.

(45:03):

It's just mind blowing what people say to widows and I wonder if they even understand or they're just too wrapped up in their own head to even see how it's affecting us and how hard it is for us to have these conversations. And it's a tiny little shift of conversational like, Hey, can I have a step? Well, or versus, Hey, how can I help you execute below what needs to be done? That's a totally different conversation, a lot more understanding. And you could hear me say, Hey, mother-in-law's not ready there. She's not ready. She got there yet and originally get Mark fine, holy cool. Versus being upset and just not wanting to bother me. So it's just funny how I've heard so many stories of widow is going through something similar where it's just like the things people say to us is just mind blowing. And if we were to write it down and above, people will be like, oh my gosh, all the people say this. But we hear it all the time.

Jennifer Osler-Bolton (46:06):

And it's not always strangers that have their opinions. It's often the people that are literally living this life with us, but kind of refusing to actually live this life with us. And that's so hard.

Demi Venden (46:24):

There's just a lot of grace that is needed on top of us loving big. I think in you're a widow, you have just so much grace because people would people off to us. Amen.

Jennifer Osler-Bolton (46:39):

Demi just dropped us off at church. Oh, nope.

Emily Cave Boit (46:43):

Well, you have a lot of grace, that's for sure. Bill. That's hard giving grace.

Jennifer Osler-Bolton (46:50):

It is it hard to give it because then there's that part of us that wants to just be like with the boundaries and all the things and be like, Nope, nevermind. Just I don't have time for this. And then there's the moments where we do have to extend the grace because people just don't know. They actually don't know.

Emily Cave Boit (47:05):

We have to be so much more, I think you said it to me one time more mature and be the bigger person so much. I feel like widows are constantly the bigger people when you would think it should be the opposite. We should be giving grace and we shouldn't have to be the bigger people, but I feel like yeah, majority of the time it's on us.

Demi Venden (47:35):

Yeah, it feels a little backwards for sure. Melody, I hope you guys relate to this, but I was comforting everyone else. And I remember my sister-in-law saying the same thing, and she also, my brother would passed suddenly and she was in the shock of her life and she spent all day comforting everyone else when she quit for you. And so I think as widows, I don't think people quite understand how much she's put on us and how amazing we're doing for even just being his song. Very, where it's so true, the darkness, we've all pulled ourselves out of the way. We've managed our emotions the way we've thought live again, have light back into our eyes and to be parents, it would be okay if we weren't okay yet here we are, we're okay. And I feel like that doesn't enough pop us up, but it's just I don't think people can understand the day to day darkness whole and you can't just forget about it and move on. The whole it's people care. That

Emily Cave Boit (48:47):

Makes sense. I'll give you guys each an opportunity to say one more thought, opinion, suggestion, story. Free range can be good, can be bad.

Demi Venden (49:03):

Let me get a near fee.

Emily Cave Boit (49:06):

Well,

Jennifer Osler-Bolton (49:06):

Hold on. Lemme pull up. Let me plot my notes.

Emily Cave Boit (49:08):

The funny thing is you do have notes though. People won't be able to see that, but you do.

Jennifer Osler-Bolton (49:15):

I have notes. I do, I do. Just because there is just so much. I mean the only thing that I would, and I think I'd said it before, but with, I keep saying young widows, but that's just because this is the beautiful screen. I'm looking out of these beautiful young widows here, but I think widows in general, anybody who's willing to put themselves back out there, our grief and our widowhood can sometimes lower our standards. It can sometimes get in the way of what we actually deserve. And I've said before, and I joke all the time, we deserve medals. We deserve someone coming into our life and placing a medal or a crown on our heads and be like, you made it through. I'm so proud to know you and be yours and that type thing. But the reality is, is that we end up doing the opposite to ourselves because we question ourselves.

(50:11):

We question life. We have new fears. New fears have been unlocked in our life experiences. And so because of that, we allow our grief and our title as widow to lower our standards sometimes and accept behavior that's unacceptable. And for myself, anytime I'm talking to young widows and I feel grateful, I'm eight years out, so I do feel grateful that I can meet new widows. I hate that I meet new widows. I tell you girls all the time, I hate that I know you, but love that I do. I don't like meeting new widows because then it means they're in this godawful club. But I'm grateful for it at the same time because then it does give me an opportunity to just remind widows that, gosh, you deserve so much more than you even realize that you deserve. Because the world's not telling you you deserve it.

(51:02):

It's only other widows who are telling you that you deserve it because the world says you deserve to move on, but also let go of your past. You can't do both things when in reality other widows know no, you actually deserve that and so much more. You deserve so much more. So my big thing for widows, young widows who want to date again, who want to go out into the world, who are open to being loved again, don't lower your standards because in reality, because of what you've walked through, because of what you've done, your standards should be elevated to the maximum because you are absolutely so precious. The Bible talks about a lot of things, but it's very clear what God thinks of widows and because it talks about it, how special is that that our category of humans is actually literally in the Bible as being like the ones to be cared for, the ones to be loved, the ones to be nurtured. That's what widows deserve. They so deserve that. So don't let your grief or your title lower your standards. Instead let it elevate you to the highest level you could possibly imagine. That's what you deserve.

Demi Venden (52:18):

Great way to end it. I'll add to that with just saying not only don't lower your standards, but also you are responsible for your own. And it stinks because it's not our fault that we're here, but all of us orders are sharing so much trauma and grief and a lot of it's in process, even though we're processing it daily. I know that's embracing, but you will bring that into parenting, into your everyday life, into every relationship you're in. I've described this big awakening called I'm a very different person. Not that I was perfect eat with Michael, I had my own trauma, but it's just like it's nobody else's responsibility to kill that you own. So all this advice to get therapy, I'm stilling that myself. And I think a lot of times it feels dumb to go to therapy. I felt that way in the beginning and a lot of money just to be sad somebody. And I could do that with girlfriends for free, but I just really feel like finding the right one. It also, I really felt like this light come back slowly and it there, but it's to get back day. So faculty. Very true.

Emily Cave Boit (53:49):

Very true. Well, I love you guys both.

Demi Venden (53:52):

We love you. We love you, love

Emily Cave Boit (53:53):

You guys. We're lucky to have you both and thanks for sharing your journeys openly too. I know it's not easy being vulnerable, so yeah. Thanks guys. Love you guys.

(54:15):

As you guys can see, Demi and Jen are great. Honestly, my group chat with 'em is one of my favorite group chats. I love talking with them and I feel so fortunate that we are in this club together, but obviously wish we were not. But one of the things that Jen said to me and Demi one time, and I just want to leave the episode with this, is, anyone can be healthy and fun, but not everyone can be considerate, thoughtful, and loving in the middle of their discomfort and pain. Showcasing life. And the product of love is a gift to all who have the privilege of going home to their healthy and fun spouses each day. If our late husbands can find a way to showcase selfless love as they're dying, you can find a way to showcase respect while you're living. And I just want to remind people if you know a widow, or even if you don't, just to never cast judgment and just love on them, support them and follow 'em in their journey because it is a journey that we wouldn't wish upon our worst enemy. But I do know that we are making Colby, Ryan and Michael, so proud.