CFO Chronicles: The Secrets Behind Success

This Firm Ditched the Office and Doubled Team Retention - Rachel Phillips

• James Donovan • Season 3 • Episode 44

Share episode

Rachel Phillips isn’t guessing. She built a remote-first accounting firm that now supports 40+ employees and most of them are moms.


 Before remote work was normal, Rachel Phillips owner of Fully Accountable made it essential. In this episode, she unpacks how her team’s flexibility has become their unfair advantage and why the office is never coming back.

What you’ll learn:

  • Her strategy for sourcing elite part-time and full-time finance talent
  • The power of marketing-style job ads (and how yours are repelling talent)
  • Why refund-prone leads cost more than you think
  • The “chargeback at 2 AM” story that changed how she runs her business
  • The mindset shift that helped her stop being reactive and start building intentionally

This one’s for founders who want freedom and growth and don’t want to choose between them.

Send us a text

This episode is brought to you by Bill.com

  • Get Started with BILL. BILL Spend & Expense isn't your typical expense software - it's a powerful, free platform that works with the BILL Divvy Card to put you in control. We're talking credit lines from $50,000 all the way up to $5 million. That's fuel for expansion, strategic investment, and seizing those critical opportunities. See how BILL Spend & Expense can transform your business now at bill.com/promo500. Terms and conditions apply.

Ready to turn your firm into a lead-generating, profit-driving machine?
We help Bookkeepers, Accountants & Fractional CFOs generate consistent local leads, book perfect-fit appointments, and close premium clients, without cold outreach or ad guesswork.

Let’s map out your growth plan together → Book your free strategy call


Speaker 1:

Welcome back to another episode of CFO Chronicles. We have an amazing guest joining us today. She is from Fully Accountable. She started as an intern and has worked her way to the owner yes, you heard me correctly from intern to owner. She has gone from law to accounting. We are joined by Rachel Phillips. We talk about running a fully remote firm pre-pandemic before everyone was going remote how she's building her team, where she's sourcing the best talent to fulfill on her team side and the different strategies her and her team use to deliver world-class results for her clients. As always, let me know your thoughts on the episode, would love to hear your feedback and enjoy. Rachel. Tell us all about yourself and Fully Accountable. I'm so excited to have you on the show today.

Speaker 2:

Oh my gosh, james, thanks for having me. Goodness, where to even start? So I'm Rachel, ceo over here at Fully Accountable, and I was actually employee number one. Started as an intern here and have worked my way up and now am the owner of the company. So that's been an amazing journey for me, but partially because I love this company and what we're doing. So Fully Accountable is really an outsourced accounting department. We fit the need for whatever the business needs with all customizable solutions. So we can be your CFO, we can be your accountant, we could be your sales tax team you name it, we can be it for you. We're trying to make sure that we fit what you need, not trying to fit you into a box.

Speaker 1:

I love it. You got. You started your career in law, if I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 2:

That's correct. I am a lawyer, yep.

Speaker 1:

Can you tell me a little bit about that transition from law to working in the accounting space?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, totally. So I focused my entire legal career in mergers, acquisitions, tax and corporate compliance, and so it was a pretty smooth transition when I ended up in accounting and tax, Because so much of what you focus on in merger and acquisition world are financials, valuations, you know the accounting of the company, the strategy with the financials, that, when you couple it with the legal piece of contracts, team, HR, you really can round out as a CFO by being able to do financials but also being able to look at it from a more operational legal perspective as well. And so I just took my non-accounting experience and really just pivoted to really dive deep into financials and then marry it with that experience.

Speaker 1:

So interesting. Under your leadership with fully account, fully accountable has grown to three people, or from three people to over 40 employees, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, we're sort of a pivotal, pivotal moments or strategies that contributed to this growth.

Speaker 2:

Totally so. The first one for us was I had actually implemented a work from home model or hybrid model for most of our team from the beginning. So, starting in 2015, we hired our first work from home employee.

Speaker 1:

Oh, you're doing it way before. It was cool and the trendy thing after the pandemic.

Speaker 2:

And here's why we're from a town called Akron Ohio and I love Akron Ohio, but it's smaller and there's only so much talent that's willing to drive into a small office in Akron Ohio.

Speaker 2:

And I said to myself there are so many other good accountants and CFOs out there that I want to work with those people, and so we opened it up to be work from home, that I want to work with those people, and so we opened it up to be work from home because, in our opinion, accounting can be done at any time of the day.

Speaker 2:

It doesn't have to be done during banking hours, and so that allowed us to tap into the market of the best talent. In so doing, I found that there is a very niche category of women who are moms that want to be both mom and a professional, but working in a top 10 CPA firm isn't an option for them because they can't go to soccer games and they can't get their kids on the bus and have that career. And so my entire mission became going out and finding the women that want to be both mom and the professional and giving them more opportunities. And now 90% of our controller based are all women who get kids on the bus, but also are giving some of the most pivotal guidance to our clients that are helping them succeed and growth and scale.

Speaker 1:

That's so cool. Where have you found to be the best spot to find your talent? And I have a spot in mind, but I'm curious to hear your answer first, and then I'll share what's worked for us.

Speaker 2:

So we use a platform that will push. We use Jazz HR as a platform to push out all of our job ads, but what I found is having a really good marketing job ad that attracts the people that you want to work with to you. So the better your job ad, the better the quality of the applicant to match what you're looking for you'll get.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's it, really it's. It's no different than writing an ad to attract clients.

Speaker 3:

You're writing an ad to attract talent to your team.

Speaker 1:

I think so many people miss that and I know I did in like for the longest time. It's the exact same skillset. It's we're we're trying to attract the right client. We're trying to attract the right team member to join. The reason I asked that um we started using a site and a lot of other um connections of mine in the marketing space have used a site called hire my mom and oh, yes, I love them yes.

Speaker 1:

Awesome. Yeah, we um. We recently brought on a team member from there and we had another ad up and you can find some amazing talent out there. So when you mentioned that you're looking for moms who are able to get the kids on the bus and they wanted, you know, do X, y and Z. Awesome spot for people to find talent there.

Speaker 2:

Oh my gosh, I love, yeah, hire my mom, it's amazing there. Oh my gosh, I love, yeah, hire my mom, it's amazing.

Speaker 1:

That's so cool, awesome. So, rachel, given your focus on e-commerce and digital businesses, what unique financial challenges do these companies face and how does Fully Accountable address them.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so the number one biggest thing for them is revenue recognition. So, because they do all of their business online, there's no POS system where somebody goes and swipes their credit card. There are a lot of hidden fees, expenses, chargebacks, refunds, that in a typical accounting world, what you see is people just recognize the revenue of what's being deposited in their bank account and what we do is we say no, no, your revenue is what you actually charged. And then we do a very detailed revenue breakdown and from there we can do it either by campaign, by channel, by product, but it gives you a lot more insights on your sales and your products than just knowing what hit the bank account.

Speaker 2:

The second piece of it is going to be the dialing in of all of your advertising, your cost of goods and your labor, of all of your advertising, your cost of goods and your labor, and making sure that we're looking at those to make sure they're within the ratios that we want so that you're able to continue to grow and scale. One of the things that I see really frequently is that somebody will be profitable on their ads, but when we break it down, they're only massively profitable on two or three and then they've got a half dozen others that they're upside down on, and if they just took those dollars and deployed them to their profitable ads, they could be making a lot more money, and so those are areas that we're always dialing in and trying to help clients find more money on what they're already doing without having to change a lot.

Speaker 1:

That's cool. Is there a success story that comes to mind real quick and you don't have to share the name of the business? But is there one that stands out where you're like yeah, we did notice this specific ad campaign wasn't working and we did X, y and Z or you guys implemented your magic and what was the end result?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So the big one was we would have had a client that was doing a lot on Snapchat because they thought they had to be on Snapchat, but they were losing a ton of money there.

Speaker 2:

And when we pulled that back and were able to deploy the dollars, not only were they able to scale more on Instagram and Facebook, or Meta but we found that all of the sales that were coming from Snapchat had a higher likelihood of refunding or charging back, and so they were actually costing them money, not only higher acquisition rates as well.

Speaker 1:

That's awesome. That's so cool. That's the real superpower is having that data behind the numbers and not the emotional. Oh, I just need to be on another platform, Really looking forward to those. That's cool.

Speaker 2:

And I think one of the other things right now is like AI and tech is so big in the accounting space and I actually really do believe those are assets to accounting and more accountants and accounting firms should be leaning into it. But it's really the person that found that, not the technology, and so how can you marry having really good tech to feed you reports quickly, error free and efficiently and then having an expert reading those and then giving the guidance and feedback to the client is really where that power falls clients with their paid ads.

Speaker 1:

They're using meta, they're using, maybe, youtube, google, all these different channels. How do you bring new clients into your firm? What? What's that same way is the point yep, seo, ppc, um.

Speaker 2:

We do outbound activity, so we we are trying to make sure that not only are we servicing our clients that way, but we also know that because that's the space that we live in and so that's what we use. Linkedin is another great place for us, because it's a lot of professionals and businesses that are on there, but your traditional Google is where we generate most of our leads.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, where people are searching, that's where they're hanging out right, Exactly right Searching. That's where they're hanging out. Right, Exactly Right. Do you have a team in-house now doing that with you, or do you have the luxury from all of your clients who specialize in that you're able to cherry pick? Okay, this is the person we want to work with.

Speaker 2:

Combination of the both. We have somebody that's the lead marketing director here, and then she cherry picks the appropriate people to do the things that would be outside of her wheelhouse. I think that we should always be empowering and leaning on the people that do this as their expertise and not settle for somebody doing it halfway just to save a couple dollars, because you'll make way more by investing than trying to save those dollars.

Speaker 1:

So wise, that's so good. I got another question for you here. So, reflecting on your journey from law school to tech leadership, what advice would you offer professionals looking to pivot into entrepreneurship or starting their own ventures?

Speaker 2:

Oh, my gosh so two pieces.

Speaker 2:

One would be I do think an understanding on accounting is honestly crucial for business owners. I don't think you need to be an accountant, but I think understanding what a balance sheet is and a profit and loss and a cash flow can be really helpful for you, specifically in early stages of your business, when maybe you can't afford or really aren't at the level of needing a CFO. Being able to read those financials is key. And then the other piece of advice that I always that always comes to my mind for entrepreneurs is have the endurance to take a risk on yourself.

Speaker 2:

I think, when I look back on my journey I there were periods of time where I didn't take a payroll. There were periods of time where I would do four different jobs. I would learn a job on the spot, but I knew that I was my best asset and I was going to take the biggest risk on myself because I knew what I was capable of. And I think that business owners that are willing to endure and be willing to take the risk on themselves are going to reap the rewards of that. It might just take time, but it's consistency and showing up each day that are going to get them there consistency and showing up each day that are going to get them there.

Speaker 1:

What's one of the biggest risks that you feel you took, or when you bet on yourself Is anything that comes to mind as you kind of retell that story. Yeah, Gosh.

Speaker 2:

So the biggest piece for me was stepping up and being the early stages of our company, which ended up lasting the first almost five to seven years was being our sales rep, and I did not. I'm not naturally an extroverted person. I honestly would have like butterflies getting on sales calls, but I knew our product and I believed in our product so I felt I was the best person to show up on that call to sell to the potential client and each call got a little bit easier. Going to each event got a little bit more comfortable. Being in front of a crowd Each time I got in another podcast felt a little bit more natural. But being willing to do a job that I was not trained in, be willing to do a job that there are a lot of people out there that could likely maybe do it better from a technical piece, that was a big area that I took, a risk that I think has paid off dividends for me now.

Speaker 1:

I love it. What are you most proud of with where Fully Accountable sits today?

Speaker 2:

Our team by far. I would say we have invested in a really good team. Our average employee has been here over five years, which is double the US average, and continues. I have three people that are hitting their 10 year mark this year, so to me that is something that just feels really rewarding, because they believe in what we're doing too. I have interviewed each person that is here. I have personally met each person that is here. It's just a group of people that you're excited to show up and work with each day that does really good work for all of our clients.

Speaker 1:

I love that. We're a little jumping all over the place now and this is me, but I kind of want to go back to that. That mindset of like not quitting and pushing forward Is there also. There must have been a time where you like you got really close to stopping or quitting or thinking maybe I should just go over here, like Like the the nine to five and I can turn off work at five o'clock on a Friday afternoon. That sounds really good right now. This has been a tough week or a tough month. Can you walk me through maybe one of those moments that stand out more to you and now looking back, probably being like I'm so happy, I just pushed a little bit more and didn't do that.

Speaker 2:

Totally so. We got our first ever charge back, and so for people who aren't familiar with, that, is that somebody buys your service or did something, calls your credit card company, says it's fraud. You didn't deliver. They'd been a client for four years. It was the first time anybody had ever done this.

Speaker 2:

I happened to check my email at two in the morning. I immediately got up and started writing a response, gathering all the data, worked for eight straight hours doing this, and somewhere around two o'clock the next day in the afternoon I said to myself what are you doing? Like there was no reason for you to do that at 2 am, like starting that at 10 am today would have yielded you the exact same result as starting it at 2 am. And there was this shift for me that said you can do this and you can accomplish this, but you can also have some boundaries in your life where it doesn't have to consume you, and something about putting boundaries for me around email work actually not only made me more productive but actually helped me do a better job, because I knew that at 7 pm I wasn't going to check email again. So what was I going to do? Get done for that day and tie up that wasn't going to be touched again until seven or eight the next morning. And not only did it help other people respect me more, it actually helped me just be a better employee and then emulate that for my employees as well.

Speaker 2:

And so now I have people that are, we have clients that actually respect boundaries. We don't have clients calling at midnight just because they think they can, and now the cell phone always works at midnight, right Email is constantly being checked. So we have a company where people get to have work life balance. I don't know, I have a hang up. You know there's not really work-life balance. You're you're balancing working really well when you're working and home life when you're home, and that balance is allowing work to be work when you're working and home to be home when you're at home. And that for me was like the pivotal moment of not everything has to be done in that moment and you need to set up your boundaries and be clear on what you stand for, and you will be better for it.

Speaker 1:

So many things come to mind as you're saying that, like just I've I've been in that scenario before and the yeah, looking at emails at late when you shouldn't you see something that maybe gets you way too excited, way too down. You can't sleep for one reason or another because your emotions are now out of whack. So just being super intentional is what I'm hearing mostly of, like this is the way it's going to be and you can't make change unless you make the change.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, and working with clients is tough, right, for a couple of reasons. The first one is you build a relationship with them. I have a guy on my team that has had a client for eight and a half years, which is a really long time, and so when something happens to their business, he feels it personally, like it very deeply, and so in that example that was somebody that I knew just needed money. They were actually very satisfied with our service. It was just a play to claw back some money, and so the offense that I felt was what caused me to like feel like I had to be so reactive.

Speaker 2:

When I was younger, somebody had given me a piece of advice that it said you don't actually like everybody and that's okay. So you need to be okay that not everybody's going to like you, and I kind of use that advice to say not everybody is going to see the relationship that you feel the exact same way and that's okay. Like your client, it is a paying relationship and while you can be incredibly friendly, at the end of the day it is transactional and you have to be at peace with that. And so it's allowed me to remove some of the emotion, to not get so upset when those events tend to happen.

Speaker 1:

You must be a long time listener, rachel. I've been. That's always my question I end with is the best piece of advice. So you're throwing me for a loop. Now how to?

Speaker 2:

I'm sorry.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, how to end the podcast. That's really good advice and I've also been, you know, informed and just like kind of educated from some other mentors as well that when working with clients, everything like perception truly is reality and as the owner, from my seat, I may see something different than what the client feels and at the end of the day, it's what they feel is what's going to be their truth, not what maybe the numbers are saying or what's happening. So that's really solid and sound advice that you just shared, that you know at the end of the day it is transactional and this is the line and you can have the friendly relationship, but there is very much a line in the sand of what it is at its core.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, yeah, and I just I always encourage my team, like if you're taking it personal, that's good, because that means that you care. Just learn to leave it there and don't let it keep you up at night, because you'll you'll drive yourself nutty if you do.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and that's a fine line, and I think that just comes with experience and reps and knowing okay, this one maybe got away from me it it ate at me way too much. This one, maybe it should have eaten at me a little bit more than it did and you find that balance. So you've shared your best piece of advice. So I'll ask you this what's next for the business?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, for us it's to lean into technology. How can we continue to leverage all the tech that's out there right now so that our accountants and CFOs really can become strategists and guidance for you guys, for our clients? I think that, again, we should be using that type of stuff because it reduces errors and it gets things done quicker, which means us, as service providers, can give you advice and help you pivot a lot more quickly, and that's where we're headed. I think that the next version will be just a stepping stone. In the next five, 10 years, it'll be interesting to see how much tech has been enabled into the accounting space.

Speaker 1:

I love that. That's so good. I think there's so many firms leaning into it because it's not going away. It's not a trend, it's here to stick. I think there's still a couple of firms out there that are scared and they want to do things the old school way because that's the way they've been doing it, but unfortunately, they will be left behind. It's a harsh reality. So I love to hear that you're full force and you're driving into the technology. So that's awesome. Yeah, force, and you're driving into that the technology, so that's awesome. Rachel, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story and sharing all of your insight. This was an amazing conversation. I hope a ton of listeners get a ton of value from this. How can people get in touch with you if they want to continue the conversation or reach out to you, learn what you're doing or even potentially work with you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely so. You can always reach me by email at Rachel at fully accountablecom. Um, you can visit us at our website, fully accountablecom. Uh, we're always on LinkedIn and our Facebook, so any of those platforms. If you message us, we'll be sure to get in touch with you. Um, that way too.

Speaker 1:

Awesome. I really encourage everyone listening to get in touch with Rachel. Thank you so much again for coming on the show.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for having me, James.

Speaker 1:

Perfect. So, rachel, that was amazing. Thank you so much. Yeah, if possible, could I just re-record the intro with you, because I mentioned two sponsors and then it said nothing else about one of our new sponsors. I didn't know what to say.

Speaker 2:

I didn't have the thing pulled up. Yeah, yeah, go for it.

Speaker 1:

Okay, whatever you need to do, yeah, yeah, go for it. Okay, cool, can you? Well, we'll have to work some magic on the front end, so I can't even remember how you started, but it'll, it'll work out fine not worried welcome back to another episode of cfo chronicles.

Speaker 1:

We have an amazing guest joining us today, but before I introduce who we have, I do want to give a massive shout out to our sponsor, universal accounting. Make sure to check them out, get Get in touch with them. They are the premier accounting firm builder. If you're looking to level up your skills grow the premier accounting firm, level up your bookkeeping skills, make sure to get in touch with them. They're amazing at what they do. Rachel Phillips from Fully Accountable, thank you so much for joining us today.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for having me, James. I'm really looking forward to this.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for tuning into this episode of CFO Chronicles the secrets behind success. I hope you found value in today's conversation. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, make sure to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss any future episodes. If you enjoyed today's discussion, please rate and review the show. It helps others discover the insights we share here. Second, if you're ready to take your business to the next level and attract the high-end clients you deserve, head over to accountingleadsnow. To date on what's happening in the world of accounting and financial growth, We've got exciting topics coming up, so stay tuned for the next episode of CFO Chronicles. Until then, keep pushing forward. Your growth is just one strategic move away.

Speaker 3:

Thanks for listening to CFO Chronicles the secrets behind success. We hope today's episode provided valuable strategies to help you attract more high paying clients. Be sure to subscribe, follow and share with fellow professionals. Connect with us on LinkedIn and leave a review or comment to join the conversation. Your feedback helps us bring you the best insights in finance and marketing. Until next time, keep striving for success and unlocking your business's potential.