CFO Chronicles: The Secrets Behind Success

You’re Not a Real CFO (Yet): Why Most Firms Never Land High-Value Clients - With Brett Frevert

• James Donovan • Season 3 • Episode 57

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“Are you a real  CFO?”

That’s the question clients are now asking,  because not all “fractional CFOs” are created equal.

In this episode, Brett Frevert (Founder of CFO Systems, Inc. and 9-time Inc. 5000 awardee) breaks down:

• Why “bookkeeper to CFO in 90 days” is hurting the industry
• The 4 levels of business conversations and why most pros are stuck at level one
• Why your newsletter is probably repelling high-value clients
• How to land $10K+ clients through old-school strategy, not funnels
• The branding mistake that makes real firms look generic

This is a behind-the-scenes look at what it actually takes to grow a legitimate CFO firm, without burning out or cutting corners.

🧠 Brett also shares how CFO Systems helped a small-town firm turn a $3M loss into a $5M gain and why finance professionals should think more like heart surgeons, not generalists.

🔗 To connect with Brett, visit CFOSystemsLLC.com
or reach out directly on LinkedIn: Brett Frevert

Send us a text

This episode is brought to you by Bill.com

Ready to take your finances to the next level? See how BILL Spend & Expense can power up your business and get that free grill at http://bill.com/cfochronicles

Ready to turn your firm into a lead-generating, profit-driving machine?
We help Bookkeepers, Accountants & Fractional CFOs generate consistent local leads, book perfect-fit appointments, and close premium clients, without cold outreach or ad guesswork.

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SPEAKER_02:

Welcome back to another episode of CFO Chronicles. Get ready for an action-packed episode filled with game-changing insights and expert knowledge as we dive into the world of fractional CFOs and accounting firm owners. Our guest, Brett Frevert, is the founder of CFO Systems, a team of professionals dedicated to helping clients navigate the financial side of their businesses. With over a decade of experience and a track record of success, Brett is here to share his valuable insights on branding, client acquisition, and scaling in the finance and accounting world. Brett, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01:

Thanks, James. Good to be here. Appreciate your time and enthusiasm.

SPEAKER_02:

Awesome. I'm looking forward to it. We've had this one on the calendar for a bit, so we're finally getting a chance to record. I would love to jump right in. Can you tell us about your journey to becoming a fractional CFO and founding CFO systems?

SPEAKER_01:

Sure. Interesting. Um the the short version is my career followed the very traditional CPA model of all right, CPA for in public accounting for seven years, jumped across the desk, worked for a corporate client through an IPO, numerous acquisitions, and then we sold that company. I bounced around to a couple different, a very large company and then a very small company. And in the summer of 04, I saw this opportunity and saw this need that there are a lot of middle market and lower middle market organizations that would really benefit from a true CFO, but don't need a full-time CFO. And a full-time CFO would hesitate to go to these$30,$40,$50 million organizations because you're really only using your CFO skills part-time. And uh so I had the brainstorm that you know what I could work for three of you guys at the same time, and uh proposed it, and it was universally just unanimous response was that's absolutely stupid. There's no such thing as a part-time CFO. Do you want the job or not? I said, Yeah, I don't want the job. And uh fast forward to fall, uh late October of 2004, and uh the small real estate firm I was working with came to the same conclusion. We don't need a full-time CFO. And so we parted ways, talked to a couple of mentors and hung out my shingle, said, you know what, there's a there's a thing here, and uh coming from the real estate world, I called it timeshare CFO. Um, it's now evolved into fractional CFO, and it took off, it just absolutely took off right away.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, amazing. What what's your take? And it may be a little bit controversial, but what's your take on I mean it sounds like everyone in their dog is a fractional CFO now, or everyone is doing advisory, and then when you dig in not everyone is there's there's a lot who do it really well and they price accordingly and they they bring the right value to the table. And I think there's a lot who are playing fractional CFO and advisor. How how do you I guess define or differentiate uh being a true fractional CFO and and maybe some of those who are aspiring to become a CFO but aren't aren't quite there yet, whether it's the clients they're working with, what they're charging, or what the deliverables look like.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow, that's about a three-day seminar, James. Um so the the interesting thing is there's not a hard and fast definition of CFO. You know, by by definition, it's the chief financial officer. So if you're a$20 million company, whoever is head of accounting is somewhat the chief. Um, if you're at Union Pacific or Berkshire Hathaway, the chief financial officer is much better defined. So in our space, in this middle market, lower middle market space, you you said well, everybody and their dog uh is is is becoming a fractional. And uh I think Deloitte did a study. They said that in the last year or so there's an 80% increase in the number of of uh LinkedIn profiles that now are fractional. I believe it. So it it it truly is, and and you're spot on. Some people are extremely talented and absolutely the right, the right personality, the right skill set, um, right for this space. Others are, and this is where it gets a little bit delicate, but you've you jumped right in. Probably the best illustration is there's a a very specific one particular entity marketing themselves to accountants, and their tagline is bookkeeper to CFO in 90 days. Just imagine that bookkeeper, CFO 90 days. So the the challenge is the risk is that good people slogging away in the in the corporate world are saying, Boy, I'd like to be a CFO, and these guys can teach me in 90 days, and it's only you know several thousand dollars. And they go and and go through the process, and then the the the rest of the story is we get calls from client or potential clients from some uh a corporate leader, organizational leader, and they'll say things like so are you guys real CFOs? And these calls started coming in about a year ago already, and I'll say, Yeah, absolutely, that's an interesting question. Why do you ask it? Yeah, and they said, Well, we've got a got a guy, and he says he's a CFO, but he's really more like a bookkeeper, and we need somebody that's strategic, that looks forward, that understands modeling. Um, take a look at our website. I mean, you'll you'll see the profiles and the the resumes of the people on our team, and yeah, we're actually very legitimate, very experienced CFOs. We also have controllers, we also have bookkeepers. Um, but if you want a CFO, we've got CFOs.

SPEAKER_02:

That's wild that that's even a question coming up from uh like the end users now, the the businesses asking, are you a real one or are you, you know, did you did you get the certification in the last 60, 90 days? I I mean as soon as you said that, a light bulb went off of thinking when you go to school to get a degree or get a certification, it's not get like you don't go to university for 90 days to get a certification. You have to put in the time, you have to have the experience, you have to get the knowledge, go work for a bit and bring that in to I think to truly get some of that experience and then absolutely go out on your own. And it sounds like that's what you were doing. So the the aspiration of some who just want to dive right into be being a CFO without the proper experience, it seems like there's a big piece that's getting missed.

SPEAKER_01:

There is a big piece, you know, and this is not intended to be a sales pitch, but if you look at our our um team, our average age is 51, which means our average career is 27, 28 years. So the the the the the difference between the difference being we've been through we've been through deals, we've been through IPOs, we've been through system implementations, we've been through a couple of serious down cycles. And um if if you want somebody and we we compare ourselves to the medical world on a regular basis, you know, and and and the difference between a neurosurgeon and a chiropractor or a uh a heart surgeon and a general practitioner, both all absolutely invaluable, absolutely, and and you wouldn't want your neurosurgeon working on your back, and you wouldn't want your chiropractor in the OR for your heart surgery, but but there's this confusion cloud around finance and accounting, and and the phrase we hear frequently is well, numbers are numbers, you know, you guys are all numbers people, yeah. But it's very different between being a bookkeeper, a senior accountant, a controller, an FPA professional, and a CFO. That's a great analogy. And as a profession, you know, 40 years in the profession, we've done a horrible job of defining the differences.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's something I've I've noticed on our side, marketing for other accounting firms and fractional CFOs. It's it's the education of again the end user, the the individual reaching out, the business owner. They, for the most part, not to group everyone in the same spot, but many just think, yeah, well, I just need accounting. And it's anything that falls under that umbrella. It could be your bookkeeping, could be help with a tax return, or it could be help optimizing cash flow, but it's just referred to as I need an accountant. Yep, yep. So there's a lot of there's a lot of education that goes into it all. Um, but Brett, tell me, so your company works with uh a diverse range of clients from startups to multi-billion dollar organizations. Can you share with us a particular um something particularly challenging or a transformative experience you've had while working with a client?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh wow, those are always the fun ones. The case studies, James, um, you got to be careful what you ask for because I can tell you 20 years of case studies. Um, you know, everything we just had a conversation last night. One of my favorites was a smaller family-owned dairy that we started out with a relatively small project. Sometimes our projects read like uh Disney movie script. Okay. The bankers coming in, they they're gonna shut it down, they're gonna foreclose. We put a stop to it. We helped them evaluate a different um product line. Um, actually talked some of the shareholders into sticking with it for another year. Don't shut it down and write it off yet. And in three years, went from let's shut this down and write, you know, went from the bank shutting us down to to heck with it. We put three million bucks into this and not getting anything to all right. This unit paid a million dollars in distributions, and then we sold it for four million bucks. So you look at the math and say, okay, you guys were ready to one, the bank was going to shut you down, or you were gonna take a three million dollar write-off. Instead, we got you five million dollars to the good. That's awesome. Those are the fun ones, you know. That that's just absolutely fantastic. Um, another great one there's a independent equipment leasing company that was good owners, good people struggling with with their financials and organization and and how to really capitalize a finance company. And uh in in about 15 months, we went from chronically overdrawn to um talking to several of the big US and European banks to the point that this is this is smaller town Nebraska, and we had four$250 million term sheets on the CEO's desk. I said, we just brought a billion dollars in the small town Nebraska. Wow, and you know, it's stuff like that that it that's so fun and so rewarding because one, we're very competitive, right? There's a lot of a lot of high school and college athletes on the team. And so we're very competitive. And two, you look at we look at the number of jobs that that we save and the number of jobs that we create, and then and the economic activity of of having high quality financial information, financial systems, financial controls, and um those like as I said, I could go on and on and on. We got that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02:

The the ripple effect is so cool. It did you ever think growing up when you were a child, this is what you'd be doing in the future?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh not even remotely close. Um, so I'm a fifth generation Nebraska farm kid. My dream from probably two years on, two years old on was to be a farmer to take over the family farm and and continue. Um, I grew up in the so I graduated high school in 81. I don't know how well you know um US history and the economy, but in the mid-80s, call it 1983 to 88 was one of the worst ag crisis um in in world history, maybe worse than the Great Depression, but definitely that bad. And I had a dear a banker, there was a friend, became a dear friend, that shut me down. Said um he said, uh, how did he phrase? He said, Um, you need to go use your accounting degree. I said, Yeah, I'm going to, you know, I'm gonna be an accountant, I'm gonna work uh an accounting office tax practice in the in the winters, and then we got the farm operation going, we're gonna grow it. Here's my plan. He goes, No, no, no, uh, you're not gonna farm next year. And I said, Well, yeah, we got you know, we got the land lined up, we got blah blah, we got this plan. He goes, You don't understand. I'm not gonna loan you any money. Period. And it was just you know, 24 years of dreams, gone. And now his promise was he said, now we're gonna get through this, and you can come back, absolutely. You can always come back, but you need to go use your accounting degree for a few years until we get through this. And um, so when I see him around now, still in my hometown, he's retired, obviously. Um, I'll say, you know, Galen, is it time for me to come back yet? That's awesome. So, no, had no idea. Um, you know, didn't even really know or understand um there was such a thing as an accounting profession until I was in college and um was taking accounting classes and really enjoyed it, and then started seeing you know some of the recruiting efforts going on, and people were work going to work for places like the IRS and um some of the big corps and then the the CPA firms, and yeah, it was it was a whole new world for me.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's crazy. Well, I would say it's worked out. I mean, CFO systems now it's one of America's fastest growing companies on the Inc. 5000. Can you share with us what sets your company apart um and has contributed to its success?

SPEAKER_01:

Yep, that's easy. Everybody we talk to, whether as a as a potential client, a potential uh colleague, we talk about our four core values. And you know, core values are one of those things that that a lot of people talk about and and are um some are very, very good, some are a bit of the poster on the wall. One of the greatest feedbacks I got was from one of our directors, very experienced guy, and he said his his phrase was this is the only place I've worked where not only can I remember the core values, but we actually live by them. So our core values are we only have four. Keep it simple. Take care of your family first, get stuff done, work as a team, be completely truthful and transparent. And that's what sets us, sets us apart. Sounds a little bit self-aggrandizing, you know. That's what that's what CFO systems is built on. If you embrace these four core values, um, you're gonna do really, really well. Um if and and we actually and and we've learned the hard way that it's important not only for the people on the team to embrace the core values, but also for our clients to at least share the core values and for their trusted advisors, the bankers, the lawyers, the CPAs, that they need to have similar core values. That's amazing. That's great.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, as a fractional CFO, what are some strategies or tips you have for accounting firms and other finance professionals looking to land high-paying clients? That's always you know the one of the hardest things, right? Is how do I find the the$4,000,$5,000,$10,000 a month client and and maybe larger, right? What what are some of your what's your recommendation?

SPEAKER_01:

So I'll probably back up a little bit. Um, probably one of the most important things in people in the fractional world to to get used to is depending on the firm structure, there's good, there can be some seasonality and some volatility in your month to month, um, definitely your week-to-week, month to month workload and and compensation. So we like people to recognize that hey, there's going to be some volatility. I need to set uh some pretty serious targets for dollars and hours and and treat this just like a regular, like any other business. Have my own personal business plan. How do we go out and how do you go out and get those clients? Do things like talk to James Donovan and and have and answer deep, hard-hitting questions. Um, we believe strongly in breakfast, coffee, lunch, and happy hour. And it it typically annoys my friends in marketing and advertising. We don't spend a lot of money on marketing and advertising. Um, we support, we do a lot of community support, um, nonprofits, especially nonprofits, um, and we spend a lot of time and effort getting out and meeting people. So, like this afternoon. So last night we had um a happy hour with a small investment banking firm. Four of them, four of us, hour and a half of uh some whiskey and wings, and we got to know each other really, really well. Well, we've worked together a little bit in the past, we'll work together a lot. We um this afternoon, I've I'm having um late afternoon coffee, probably a drink, with uh an investment banker here in town. He goes, Hey, we need to get together. Um, you know, we got lawyer buddies. Um we belong to Rotary, we belong to um other networking events. If you look at my LinkedIn profile, I'm on four different boards, they're all nonprofit boards, and I use my my accounting experience to be to lead the accounting and or the audit and finance committee or the comp committee. So that's how we find clients, and and I appreciate you mentioning uh Inc. 5000, fastest growing. We've been on it nine times. So the you know, the channel, the risk is always well, wait a minute, we've got some pretty good laurels, we can't really rest on them. Um, but nine times in 11 years, we're our our model works and works pretty darn well.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, wicked. Uh shout out to Rotary. I actually went to Sweden after graduating high school and did a rotary exchange and and played hockey there for a year. So I've I've I hold a rotary holds a close spot in my heart. Um but what I'm hearing is really just about relationships, and that comes up a lot on the show, is just being really good at harvesting and nurturing those relationships. That's like the biggest thing that that's coming from what I'm hearing from you.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep, absolutely. We also have a concept we teach our people of four levels of conversation, and and first level is begging, second is selling, third is marketing, and the fourth is relationship building. So we say, I absolutely don't beg. We don't say, Hey, do you have any work for me? Do you have any clients that need us? Second, selling, we don't sell, you know. There's there's uh again another entire industry of people that will very cost effectively annoy 10,000 people on your behalf and send out emails and LinkedIn messages very inexpensively. So we we make sure people do not beg or sell, but marketing is really, and I describe it as imagine you're writing a research paper again, so in which you've just done. Tell me about you. How'd you get started? Why'd you choose accounting? What are some of the challenges you run into? You just go back to B school and and do a an abbreviated business case or research paper, and it's phenomenal. And then yeah, start listening and asking good questions, and then level four relationship building. So, for example, last night, the four we had four investment bankers in, ranging all the way from 65 years old down to late 20s. Late 20-year-old, um, just graduated from uh University of Nebraska. He's a football player, talked about that. He's engaged, he's gonna get married in February. His fiance is actually a teacher at the school of one of the other guys who's got three kids already, fourth one on his way, and and and and the owner, the leader is second generation in this firm. And so, you know, in an hour and a half, we get to know each other really, really well. Um, and the difference between an hour and a half of level four conversation, a little bit of level three, quite a bit of level three, but some level four gets that connection so much tighter than you know what? I read a book way, way, way back when, and the author said, all things being equal, people would rather do business with a friend. Now, all things not being equal, people would rather do business with a friend. So that's our oversimplified approach. Go out and make friends.

SPEAKER_02:

Appreciate you sharing that. Um, in your experience, what are some common mistakes that accounting firms and and financial professionals make when it comes to branding and marketing themselves?

SPEAKER_01:

Um probably two key ones that I've seen over and over. Um one is thinking that their newsletter is an opportunity to be an abbreviated accounting text. So you know, I I subscribe to as many as I can, and a lot of them come out with a hey, here's the new tax rules, and this is what it means, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Here's the new depreciation. I look and I think that's why I hire you. I don't really want to be a tax expert. Can't be, don't want to be. I just soon hire you. You tell me you're a tax expert. The other want thing is so trying to teach people their their trade, um, I think is just a horribly misguided effort. The other thing that we see would be somewhere along those lines, saying, hey, we're the smartest ones in town, you know, and and um let me tell you how much better we are than the others. Like, you know, there's a lot of really good CPA firms, there's a lot of really good CFO firms, a lot of really good, uh a lot of really good um uh podcast leaders. Um probably you know, to to to have the the arrogance to say we're the best and the brightest or the smartest or the fastest or anything like that, it's it's self-delusion. And the firms that say that um it just is common.

SPEAKER_02:

Interesting. How would you go about so if you're not trying to teach your audience about what's going on and educating them that way, how would what spin would you put on it for that newsletter?

SPEAKER_01:

That's a really good clarification. I like to alert people to a topic or an issue, and and but but not have the here's how to, you know, it's got it, okay. More of the headline approach. Um, back in the old days, Wall Street Journal created this approach. Front page, they'd have two lines and then rest of article on page seven. And so our newsletters have always been like that that hey, Bill Gates gave a commencement speech at Stanford University and talked about this hot link to the rest of it. Um, you know, now right now, obviously, a lot of the hot things are um the Fed and the interest rates and and and um maybe even tariffs and maybe some of the tax laws. But we'll just say here's a hot topic, and there's a hot link if you want to read more. Part of what so you know part of part of our culture, part of our our DNA is we've many, many of us have been CPAs, and we've all been corporate controllers and CFOs. So we've been on this side of the desk when consultants are coming and pitching their wares and giving us the the 13-page brochure and telling us how good they are and and telling us all the things they could do if we just pay them money. So we know what it's like, and so we don't do that. Perfect.

SPEAKER_02:

No, I appreciate you clarifying that it'll be really helpful for everyone. Um last question for you to tie a bow on it all. What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?

SPEAKER_01:

Best piece of advice ever? I was so fortunate, James. I had so many good mentors. Um probably the best piece of advice. Um actually I'll I'll hone in on one. Um, one of the one of the CPAs I work for at Deloitte said, you have to figure out how they make money. What is the real business and how do they make money? And and then the accounting and systems and everything else, you know, builds around that.

SPEAKER_02:

Love that. That's cool. Really figuring out where where's the what's the biggest lever to pull on?

SPEAKER_01:

Yep.

SPEAKER_02:

Awesome. Brett, thank you so much for coming on, sharing all of your your wisdom and knowledge, and um congrats on all the success. Number year number 10 for the Inc. 5000 coming up. Um, where can people get in touch if they want to continue the conversation? They want to reach out. Uh, what's the best way they can um they can continue the conversation with you?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh quickest and easiest will be on LinkedIn, Brett Frevert. Fortunately, I've got a bit of an unusual name. So Brett Frevert or CFO systems, um, or then go to our website, CFO systemslc.com. Um our our landline, our depth uh office number is uh 40288. I'm gonna embarrass myself. I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02:

That's okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Francis part of it, James. LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_02:

LinkedIn's the best spot. It's the website. Yeah, sounds great. We'll put that stuff in the show notes if you can get in touch. Again, Brett, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. This was awesome. Fantastic. Good to meet you. Thanks. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of CFO Chronicles, the secrets behind success. I hope you found value in today's conversation. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, make sure to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss any future episodes. If you enjoyed today's discussion, please rate and review the show. It helps others discover the insights we share here. Second, if you're ready to take your business to the next level and attract the high-end clients you deserve, head over to accountingleadsnow.com or click the link in the show notes to book your strategy call. It's time to position yourself as the advisor your clients need. And don't forget, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to stay up to date on what's happening in the world of accounting and financial growth. We've got exciting topics coming up, so stay tuned for the next episode of CFO Chronicles. Till then, keep pushing forward. Your growth is just one strategic move away.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks for listening to CFO Chronicles, the secrets behind success. We hope today's episode provided valuable strategies to help you attract more high-paying clients. Be sure to subscribe, follow, and share with fellow professionals. Connect with us on LinkedIn and leave a review or comment to join the conversation. Your feedback helps us bring you the best insights in finance and marketing. Until next time, keep striving for success and unlocking your business's potential.