He Landed a Client Shooting Machine Guns | Sean Duncan

A West Point grad invites you to shoot fully automatic machine guns and drink bourbon. You go. You meet a fractional CFO. Three months later, he's a multi-thousand dollar a month client.

That's not a marketing strategy. That's Sean Duncan's life and it's only the opener.

Sean built the largest accounting firm in Frisco, Texas, then torched two-thirds of his revenue on purpose and rebuilt around a fixed-fee, proactive advisory model before anyone in the industry had a name for it. In this conversation he breaks down exactly how he did it, what almost ended him in 2017, how he niched into medical practices and video game developers, and the one calendar habit he credits for every major decision he's made since.

You'll walk away with his "Work On the Business Day" framework, a new way to think about who you actually want as clients, and proof that shooting guns in Texas is a legitimate business development strategy.

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Transcript

Welcome And Why Specialize

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to another episode of the Accounting Leads Now podcast. We are in for a real treat with today's guest. I want to set the stage first. So imagine this: you're running an accounting firm and you're still trying to be everything to everyone. This episode is going to challenge that. Our guest today walked away from the generalist model, niched down into medical practices and video game developers, and shifted to a fixed fee subscription model that changed everything. He's going to break down exactly how he did it, what almost broke along the way, and what he'd do differently if he was starting over tomorrow. His name, Sean Duncan of SMB Consulting in Accounting. Let's get into it. Sean, welcome to the show. This is this is incredible. I'm I'm very excited to have you here. I'm excited to be here. Heck, I sound excited. That guy you're interviewing sounds cool. Well, Sean, let's get right into it before I forget, because we we were talking a little bit before hitting

Bullets And Bourbon Referral Story

SPEAKER_00 0:52

record. You were talking about, was it Bullets and Bourbon or Bourbon and Bullets?

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Bullets and bourbon, yep.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Okay, tell me a little bit about that because you were mentioning, hey, like you said it's so casual. Yeah, I was out, uh, I was networking, I was shooting a machine gun, and then I signed a big client. So I I want to hear a little bit more of the backstory.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

So short version starts with you never know where leads are going to come from, and I just like to hang out with good people. Um we don't really market, we don't really advertise. I just meet good people, and good people hang out with good people. And so one of this really cool guy, West Point Grad, invites me to this thing called Bullets and Bourbon. And it's a bunch of guys that get together, uh, people that have, again, I'm in Texas, so we got lots of guns here. Um, they have collections of various different types of fully automatic machine guns, stuff that again, Kadeda, I did say that wrong on purpose, aren't really familiar with. And they lay out this whole arsenal and they say, okay, we're gonna go shoot various ones of these guns and have fun. And then they have the next section is they have these bourbon tasting, and they and you chat and you just kind of BS with people. And so we shot a whole bunch of machine guns. It was hilariously fun. And we're sitting down telling stories about how cool that was and what our favorite gun was. And I'm talking to this fractional CFO, and we get back together for lunch because we hit it off there. So we hit it off at lunch, and it wasn't three months later, we're signing a multi-thousand dollar a month uh new client subscription. Uh, just because he liked me, I liked him, he trusted what we did, he knew what we did differently, and boom, there we go. We got a good client. So I got a brand new client earlier this year for shooting machine guns. So I was also saying on April 16th, I got invited to go clay shooting with somebody. So clearly, shooting works for business, so I'm gonna go shoot stuff and see if I land another client.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

It literally is. If there is a barrel, I would shoot it. Yes, that's what that's the plan.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Well, congratulations on the new client. And and what an interesting story for I mean, that that might take the cake on one of the most interesting ways to attract a client. So we'll see what future episodes and conversations bring. But again, being from Canada, just hearing about you know, drinking bourbon, shooting machine guns, it I don't think it gets more Texas than that. So I appreciate you being able to share that story.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

No, what's funny is they do different theme nights. They have the weapons of diehard, the weapons of call of duty. So then they they build like these guys have these crazy collections of all kinds of stuff that I didn't realize were completely legal.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

That's cool.

Picking Niches You Actually Enjoy

SPEAKER_00 3:14

That's cool. So I want to hear a little bit about how you got niched down because going from medical practices, that makes sense. But how do you pair medical practices and video game developers? Because those two, unless I'm wrong, Sean, do not typically run, you know, in linear with one another.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

I'm trying to find more gaming doctors. I will say, I will admit that because I'm a big gamer. Uh, you know, part of like any business, you you walk into business thinking you're going to create a certain thing. One of the passions I had when I started was I actually wanted to help professional athletes because they're constantly getting screwed over with people on their taxes and their finances. Wildly difficult to break into for different reasons, and we sort of organically built part of our referral base. Doctors loved what we were doing, so they kept referring us more of their friends. We had a lot of software development clients. Some were doing SAP, some were doing, you know, different types of programming. But I'm a big gamer. Like I personally am a gamer, and I have several employees that are rabid gamers. And I just said, you know what? Let's go work with who we want to work with. In fact, actually, when I'm speaking at GrowCon, my section is going to be about choosing the perfect clients. You get to choose who your clients are. I love helping doctors. They help people save their lives, they help them walk and feel better. And that's I like supporting that because to me, that's a bit of paying it forward. The better they are, the better they can be for their patients. And there's obviously revenue there. But I literally selfishly said, I want video game clients. It was purely about me. I want video game clients. And we knew plenty of folks that were making pretty good money at it. And so we go find small studios, 20 or fewer people in a studio. Uh, you'd be surprised what's out there. Um, in fact, one of our single wealthiest clients is actually a video game developer and not a doctor. Uh, you there's a really fun niche. So it was organic. We moved toward the doctors, it made sense, and I love supporting them, and we built skills. And then, very, very intentional, I picked somebody I wanted to work with. I mean, really, you get to talk video games as part of your job. Who doesn't want to do stuff? Well, those of you that don't play video games, I am more than happy to discuss video games ad nauseum with whatever client wants to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Yeah, I think that's so cool. And I love how you mentioned you, like you picked what was going to give you the most fulfillment, not who's coming to the door that you know they're gonna pay the bills, but you're gonna hate dealing with that client all day long. I was at a recent event on the marketing side of things, and that was a similar message of as the business owner, you get to choose who you want to work with. And when you think about niching down, if you're not really sure what industry to pick or what industry has, you know, the most money, most industries have a lot of money. You just need to go deep enough in them. But the biggest thing is what's gonna give you the fulfillment? Who can you see yourself hanging around with at you know, Zoom calls, phone calls, trade shows? Who do you just want to surround yourself around? So I I I think that's so cool how you you picked medical, and then hey, I just love video games. So, with that, what's the console of choice or what's the you know, top of the list, the the go-to game you're always picking?

Gaming Taste And Client Culture

SPEAKER_01 6:18

So I will strategically say I play a PlayStation 5. I do love my PC games, but when you're working on the computer all day and then you go in the evenings and you suddenly log in, your carpal tunnel syndrome kicks in. So my years of World of Warcraft taught me that I can't sit for seven hours of World of Warcraft after a full workday. So I go PlayStation literally to change up you know pain tolerances. Currently, I'm playing an older game. I like my RPGs. Um and actually, RPGs actually translate to business. It's about building skills and streams and patterns, and there's a there's a weird um synchrony that relates to that. But um, I'm playing a game called Celasta, which is basically Dungeons and Dragons. It's not as good as Baldur's Gate 3, for those of you that are super nerds, but I do love my Fallout. Everybody who's watching TV watching Fallout, I may or may not have a Fallout tattoo, just saying hypothetically, but it's I like my role-playing games, those are my big favorites. But I've I have a pretty diverse and eclectic mix, but that's what I lean on.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Yeah, very cool. I uh, as you were talking about the theme night from the Bourbon and Bullets, when you mentioned Call of Duty, I I can't tell you how many hours I I'm gonna say invested when I was younger playing Call of Duty. So uh when I've seen those like themed packages in Vegas, or you talking about that for the like that that to me would be all right, I gotta pick a Call of Duty themed uh you know, package for if I was to go shoot guns. So that that would be the top of my list.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Yeah, we've all played a lot a way too many first-person shooters as you get older. Your your response times drop. So I can't play the Fortnights and the Calls of Duties anymore. One, because I also have to be able to pause a game because I still have three kids, a business to run in life. Um, you can't commit to four hours of game straight without interruption. So I'm a really bad teammate if I try to join a squad in Call of Duty.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

That's funny. So,

Growth Through Rooms And Referrals

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Sean, when it when it comes to how you guys are attracting clients, because you mentioned you're not you're not typically investing in marketing. You it sounds like you do a lot of networking and it's just getting in the right rooms with people. What is your secret to growth then? Is it are you guys putting any money into paid ads, or is it all more traditional, word of mouth, just getting getting in the rooms, you know, shaking hands, kissing babies?

SPEAKER_01 8:30

It's a layered approach. I mean, really, there is a layered approach, too. I am awful with marketing. Uh, this is the 20th year of the firm. And every year since the first year, I keep going, you know, I need to take marketing seriously and be an adult and run a business. And then I get 10 referrals and then I stop even thinking about it and move on. But it did start with, I have the right contacts. But it didn't happen to me initially, and this it's a slower build, but you meet the centers of influence, your doctors, your lawyers, your financial advisors, and you just chat. If I have one tip on that, meet the best people you can meet, regardless of what they do. If you meet the best gardener in town, the gardener might be working for your ideal client and they just want to brag about you. Good people hang out with good people. Now, conversely, jerks hang out with jerks. And this comes back to your statement about clients is if you have a client you dread talking to, I have two industries that we refuse to take on as clients anymore because I just can't stand them as an industry because it's always been a bad situation. They will continue to refer you more of them. So, unless you're intentional about calling out the cancer, you know, cutting that stuff out, you're gonna keep attracting that. So meet great people, good human beings, bootstrap that. Um, marketing-wise, it never made sense. Add words, all that. Is there SEO optimization behind the scenes on the website? Yes. Uh, that that I consider just routine. You should be doing that. If you're failing to even try SEO as an organic matter, you're missing it completely. Um, but I occasionally put stuff out on social media because I'm interested in it, not because I'm trying to do a marketing strategy. Um, I do occasionally um do podcasts, which will lead to certain things, but I also do speak at events. So I've got I'm speaking at a medical event in April. That's very intentional and strategic. Now I am going to show up with my new book, which is catered toward doctors, so there's a there's synergy to that. So I do try to speak and teach and get in front of the audiences, but it's really has been a lot of just people understand. Now I will also say you do have to have to ask for clients, you do have to ask for the referrals, you do want to, you do quality work, and we do explain what we do is different. And that is the talking point that people tell other people. So we do strategy. Like if you said, hey, I just want to do a tax return, great, I will refer you to someone. We need you in the ecosystem so we can help you as the year is going. But then when you save somebody $300,000 in taxes, they're going to talk about it. Yeah. They're going to say to somebody, they're scrubbing it in surgery, and they're the other surgeon goes, Oh my gosh, I got killed on taxes. I want my client to go, I didn't. Well, how? We do the same thing. Well, my guy took care of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then they we get the referral. And so it starts to build and build and build. It is slower, but it gets a better quality. Yeah. Sorry, that was a long answer for a very short question.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

No, no, it's perfect because it's this has been a theme on the last handful of episodes, but just being intentional and you can you can be incredible at what you do, but if you're still not nudging your client to be like, hey, if there's anyone else you know, and if you want to put an incentive in front of them, or hey, it'd be really nice if you left us a review on Google, because that's gonna help with how you show up organically. Yeah, that those things they may happen, but I'd rather not leave that to chance. I would rather be in the driver's seat and give those nudges, especially if you're relying on word of mouth. And like you said, you save someone 300 grand. That's not typically change you're gonna find between the couch cushions. People are gonna be excited to share that. And and people like to have like I find people love being able to give that stamp of approval to someone else. Like if you went into a room and said, Hey, I'm looking for, you know, it a tax, a tax reduction specialist or a tax planner, or I need a chiropractor. People love to put up their hand and go, Oh, you gotta go to my person. I got the best chiropractor in town. If you are intentional about that, it sounds like you have been, you get a ton of work that comes through.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

Yes, and that and that's where niching also comes in. You become, we have this tendency, it's like, I need work and I want to help anybody, and I can help, I can help. Like if I say we help medical practices and video game developers, but we can help anyone else. Well, wait, wait, wait, how did that land? That sounded a little desperate. But I can say, well, we can help everybody, and we do, you know, we can help any type of a business owner. Well, now you don't know what type of lead to send me. But when I say I help medical practice owners with three or fewer owners, and medical practices with three or fewer owners, and software developers with 20 or fewer developers in their in their staff. I've just given you a channel. Now you may have the fear, oh my gosh, I've now missed out on the coffee shop. No, you haven't. People are still going to make, hey, but can you help this person? Uh when I mentioned we have two anti-niches, we don't help law firms and we don't help engineering firms. Um, way too problematic, not what we're looking for. Uh, the type of client that just has historically over two decades of this firm been nothing but challenges for us. Other firms, great, they love them. And when they come in, I refer to my friends that do law firms and engineering firms. We still get them a safe place, it's just not here because my crew does not like continuing to fight with those individuals.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Yeah, that's that's so important. And and it really just goes back to you you zone in on who you want, and you're gonna realize there's a whole world in there. And I'm guessing there's there's sub-niches within the video game development niche. So many. I'm a part of a mastermind for marketing firm owners, and the industries that some some business owners are in in that group would would blow you blow you away. Like there's there's some guys in there, multi, multi-million dollar a year agencies working with um things like funeral homes. Like that to me, I would never think there is funeral homes need marketing, or how would you market for a funeral home? But like they're a business that needs to happen. But they they're still wildly successful in that niche. They're not worried about what about the plumbers, what about the the law firms, or the like they've picked that space. So um sometimes less is more.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

You know, we've said it a bunch of it. We want to be famous among a certain group of people. I don't need to be famous and everybody to know who I am, but I tell you what, if if every orthopedic surgeon in the nation knew who we were and liked us, I don't need every chiropractor or family member. And that's just medicine. Think about how many clients, if you were to land a percentage of every orthopedic surgeon or every plastic surgeon. And that's this super niche. Also, the more you niche down, the more you realize there's sub-specialties. If I were to tell you video game developers, you're thinking, is that one person or is that EA Sports? No, there's a whole strata that's all throughout that. There's a guy that made using Call of Duty, I was just chatting with him a couple weeks ago. I was actually at a game developers conference. He loved making weapons. So he made a weapons package in this tool and then contacted Call of Duty folks and said, Hey, I got this state. Are you interested? And they bought it. No way. He is a weapon package in Call of Duty because he just liked it. How is that a business? It is. He monetized making little goofy virtual weapons, and that's one piece of his little studio. And like you can come up with stuff. People made money selling characters on World of Warcraft on eBay. I had a guy that made a hundred thousand dollars one year selling World of Warcraft fake stuff on eBay.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Yeah, there's it's it's truly incredible when you start talking to some people how others make money in the world. That it always just fascinates me. I get I get tunnel vision a lot of being like, all right, I'm in the marketing world, I'm in, I'm working with accountants, and that that's just the way. And then you speak to someone who, you know, they have a blue-collar job, and I'm like, yeah, I forgot that that just exists, or there's a niche within the blue-collar space or white collar, whatever it is, and or people are selling virtual packages online for video games and making a killing doing it.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Yep, yeah, and it's it's fascinating. There's a lot of ways to make money, it's just you gotta find the one that works for you, and that's picking the right client, it's right back to it. As if you can't even message your marketing if you don't know who the heck you're asking for. Yeah, because nobody can know how to Google search that.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

Now, Sean, you mentioned a couple points that I think is really worth touching on.

Conferences As Authority Builders

SPEAKER_00 16:34

You sound like you're very active in the industry circles that you serve. You mentioned you're at a video game conference, you were at you're speaking at an upcoming medical conference. Tell us a little bit about that because stage time is money time. I'm guessing you've picked up clients from being on stage, being at these shows, but also just that authority build of being around there. People aren't just seeing you on a Zoom call anymore. They're not just seeing your face on a website, they can actually shake your hand at these conferences. I'd love to hear you elaborate a little bit more on attending those trade shows.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

So uh there's multiple reasons, and it's just like attending an accounting conference. A lot of people think, oh, I don't need to go to the conference because I just I can get my CPE at home. That's not the point of a conference. The conference is the networking, it's the in-between times, it's the technologies that you're gonna meet. There's an immersive nature that is irreplaceable. You can't even you can't do it virtually. The same thing with all the industry conferences. You're there in the room with them, you're chatting about stuff that's going on, you're hearing things. Sometimes there's a session pocket that there's nothing that relates to accounting. Well, if we were doing virtual, I would just log off and go play a video game or I'd play on my iPad or do some work and then come back when it was time again. But when you're at the conference, you go like, eh, let me go check out this random session and you learn more stuff. You're immersed, and that's extremely valuable. Now, when you're on the speaking side of it, the authority makes a difference. And I'll give you a very specific example as it relates to this game developer conference. I was not, I'm not speaking at it this past year, I'm probably going to speak at it next year. I attended a bunch of classes, and then I came to this one session that was a round table discussion, so everybody could participate. Happened to be self-employed freelance studio owner developers. Obviously, I was there for a reason. And then it came a couple tax and business conversations came up, and they were answering things incorrectly. Well, as the only CPA in the room, I was like, actually, this is how that works, just keep this in mind. Here's some tricks for you. Uh hopefully that's helpful, and we moved on. And then another cat question came up, and I just raised my hand and said, Hey, this is how that works. Be sure to ask your accountant this, this, and this, and move on. Well, immediately afterwards, and I was not the speaker. Immediately afterwards, three different people came up to me and said, Holy cow, you explained something in three minutes that I've been asking my CPA for for six months. Can I get your card? I had my prospect meeting, first of the three prospect meetings yesterday. That was two weeks ago I had a conference with a now with a successful small studio. I had a meeting yesterday. And just so happens, her husband's a physician. How insane is that? She runs a game development studio and the husband's a doctor. Like when you said they don't run in the same circles, well, I guess we're both wrong, because I wasn't expecting that. But it's that authority, I was there as a representation of authority. So then when you get on stage, now here's the key, you have to be approachable. I'm a goofball. I joke, I goof, I talk about silly stuff. I have a Captain America Shield in the background. That's just me. And so when you're up there approachable, people will migrate to talk to you. I've been on panels with three CPAs, and some are terrified to be on stage. Well, nobody's gonna come up and talk to them because you just gave the appearance that you're terrified. There's one that talked down to the audience. Well, you should know this if you are running a business. Nobody likes to be talked down to. I'm a goofy teacher, I just like to teach. So if you can come out with a giving mindset, I'm there to help. You get the authority by already being up there, but then you are approachable, then they will circle around you. And I usually end up with a circle of people that we're chatting with, and we laugh and we joke and we move on. So it's it lands clients. I make good contacts. I met another really good lawyer and CPA at this last conference. There's so much to learn and gain, even if you never get a client. But I'm fortunate that usually I do end up getting a couple prospect meetings every time I go, especially when I'm speaking.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

Nice. Yeah, that's huge. Well, I think you nailed it with just the way you you go about presenting yourself at conferences. You're there to add value, you're there to answer questions. And if that alone is an invitation subconsciously to be like, hey, I've just given you a ton of info for free, and that's totally fine. Run with it, take it to who you have in your corner. But that also says, feel free to come and talk to me because I'm an open book. And if you're not currently getting that with your current provider, more than happy to have that conversation with you. And either we could help you out or we can just point you in the direction of someone else who can. And that when you have that abundance mindset, I think you just get overwhelmed with uh positive opportunities, and it sounds like that's what you get by attending these shows. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

Now I will say I will say something too that keep in mind. When

Selling By Listening First

SPEAKER_01 21:11

you own an accounting firm, you did not sign up to be a salesperson. Nobody went to accounting as a profession to say, now I want to sell, which means you were never trained on sales. I was never trained on sales. I'm a terrible salesperson, I'm a good teacher. But you have to remember you do need clients. You have to be willing to ask for the business. You have to be willing, but you can find a way to approach it. You know, hey, if you need me, I'm happy to help. I would love to meet and see if this were a fit. There's a training I put my entire staff through called Sandler that is a technique and a methodology for selling, and they find the best results for people that have no sales experience. And I've watched it happen in my group. A couple of my folks that had no sales experience and they say they sales scares them. They're the ones getting the most referral requests. They learned a technique to apply it. You're running a business. You need to be doing sales. And so you I go with a giving mindset. I'm here to help, but I'm also listening. I want to, you know what? I'd be happy to take a look and see if I can help you out. I'm still going to ask for the opportunity, just not going to be heavy-handed about it. Because if we do just give it away, well, what happens? Now you're a pro bono. You're giving everything away. So you have to be very careful. It's not just give, give, but don't be pushy. And there's a balance and it's an art to it. But you I do want to make sure people understand you still have to try to land the client. You just don't have to be heavy-handed about it.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Yeah. And a big part that you touched on there was the listening piece. That's where all the gold is. And I think I know some of the sales calls we've reviewed for our clients, far too often they're just so excited to share everything they know. And it's like verbal, verbal diarrhea. And it's like just let them tell you everything that's going wrong in the business, why they need you, and just wait and take a pause, and they're gonna keep going. And then you have so much ammunition, not calling it back to the start of the episode, but you have so much ammunition to move forward with because those are the pain points, and they told you exactly how they want to be sold. They they they're convincing themselves before you have to say anything. And I think that's the biggest thing that I find a lot of accountants miss is just that listening aspect.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Yes, they are telling you the pain is the key. We have lost clients because we were so busy selling what we thought was the most important, and then they weren't, that's what they didn't care about. If they're terrified of getting audited and they don't really care about aggressive tax strategies, don't sell them aggressive tax strategies. Focus on their audit fear. If they just want to learn, then you can focus on you being a teacher. They're telling you what they want. And if you don't let them talk, well, hey, how did it work? What do you wish would happen? Like, ask questions, understand why they are where they are, use those words back at them and focus on that. Because I've made that mistake where the client's like, look, you're not helping me. I'm like, we just saved you $180,000 this year. What are you talking about? Yeah, that's fine. There should be no butt. That's $180K. But they wanted a certain thing on how we emailed them and responded to them. I wanted an email summary on every meeting. And they were hung up on this email summary, but we just saved you a ton of money. Well, we just had to make sure we understand this is what they value and this is what causes their pain. And once we pivoted to that, it really, it really changed the relationship with the client, which then led to even more success.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Yeah, it's not always what what you think is the most valuable to the client. It's what the client is perception's reality, right? It's what they deem to be the valuable part. And I've definitely been down that path and still still learning from those scars. And every, you know, every every interaction we have with clients learning and trying to grow and adapt. But I've I've been down that path of guilt, I've been guilty of, well, we generated X amount of leads or we generated X amount of appointments or whatever it is. It's like maybe that wasn't the piece like off the top that they were interested in, and you know, whatever that is. So I really like that you brought that up. Sean, we mentioned briefly in the intro um that things almost broke along the way. And

The 2017 Breaking Point Pivot

SPEAKER_00 25:04

if you were to rebuild the business tomorrow, you do it a little bit different. What what uh what what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01 25:10

So business is hard. I mean, I'm not I'm not gonna lie. It's I actually just said to this guy at lunch that start that's starting his new business that it's equal parts terrifying and exciting. I'm 20 years into the firm, and I still sometimes wonder if I'm a fraud and I'm faking this thing all the way through. But clearly I'm not, but yet it's just the challenge. It's never-ending changes, and you have to be willing to change. Um, and where it really, really broke was around 2017. So I started my firm in 2006. The name of the firm is SB Consulting and Accounting. And that's really important because in 2006 nobody was talking about advisory services. It didn't exist, but I knew that people needed help with support and advice. That was how we were going to differentiate ourselves. I felt there was a business model there. Holy cow, I was right. Fast forward to 2017, we were the largest firm in Frisco, Texas that year. Which, if you decide to Google up what Frisco, Texas is, it's a big dang deal. Two out of like 10 years in a row is the fastest growing city in the US. Alice Cowboys and the PGA have their headquarters here. They're building a universal studio between the two. So when I say kind of a big deal, and I was the biggest firm. Now, since then, bigger firms have moved to town, but what happened is in 2017, we were turning into every other stinking firm. If you called me on March 31st to do a podcast, I would tell you, no, it's tax season. Don't bother me until May. Well, that means from February 15th to April 15th, I was unavailable, and so was my entire staff, which again happens from August 15th to October 15th. Well, we were a consulting and accounting firm, but yet we were successful because we were crushing it and growing so much. Every metric we were taught as an accounting firm, I was killing it, except I was working 80 and 90 hour weeks, my employees were working 70 plus hour weeks, I wasn't spending time with my kids, I was no longer being responsive to clients, and the whole system was starting to break. I personally was starting to break. I couldn't take anymore. And any accountant listening to this knows how that feels. Especially right now that we're recording this on March 31st, two weeks before a tax deadline. Um, there probably there's many people that are probably losing their freaking minds right now. That is an unacceptable state to live in. And that's when I was really about to say, I'm done, I'm gonna go get a job. I can't take this anymore. But instead, what I did, I reevaluated what was I trying to actually create and wholeheartedly invested in that by firing two-thirds of my revenue in 30 days. I took all of the tax-only clients and fired them. We were only gonna be a fixed fee, proactive business consulting and tax firm. And again, in 2017, advisory still wasn't a conversation. It was something that I was stealing from concierge medicine and wealth management, is about how do we help the nurturing throughout the year. I screwed it up so many ways. Because again, there's nobody to turn to. There was no conferences or seminars. Um, but it was absolutely the right choice. If I were to do it all over again, there's two things I definitely would have done sooner. I would have committed to that proactive fixed fee subscription base advice much, much, much sooner. I don't fault myself for not doing that because there was no example. Um, what I didn't realize in 2017 when I did this, that was what was going to get our firm a whole bunch of national attention, because we were one of the very first ones to start to do this model. And so we were trialing and erring it for everybody. So I don't say that I missed an opportunity. I just didn't know it existed. I had to kind of create it. But the one that I did miss, we also do wealth management through a relationship with an RIA firm. That was a game changer. Because in the business and tax consulting, we're helping clients with how they make their money. Entity choices, paying yourself, cash flow, optimization. If we do that right, they have more money. And then they need to decide what to do with the money. Well, when they run off and go to the wrong financial advisor, that person may screw it up and cause tax issues. And then we have to clean up messes. So we brought in the wealth management to where we're now helping with how they use the money. And the wealth manager and the consultant are constantly collaborating for the client, and the client doesn't have to set those meetings. We're already doing it. Blew open the doors, both from a revenue standpoint, but also from a business standpoint, the client is stickier. Now they're help, they're tied to multiple services, and it's hard to find the one-stop shop. But it allowed us to more completely help them. We help people with businesses and money, not businesses and money. We help the people. And if we're focusing on them and how their entire world works and how the business integrates with their wealth and with their kids and their retirement goals, we're much more valuable and we create more value for them. And that that's the thing I really, really wish I had done earlier because we were taught that can mar your independence. You shouldn't do that. That's a conflict of interest. That's garbage. Anyone telling you that it's garbage, help the client, it will work out just fine. Sorry, soapbox moment there.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

There's a

Firing Clients Without Backsliding

SPEAKER_00 30:08

lot, there's a lot to unpack there, but the the one thing that really stood out, Sean, is you talking about how you fired a massive book of business, more or less overnight. I think you mentioned. I went through something similar this winter. It like I was it was beating me up internally. I just I was not a good version of myself. It was it was eating me, and I I had to look in the mirror hard and be like, what am I doing? This is my business. This is not what I built this to do. It was an incredible. I'm getting chills thinking about the feeling of after that action happened, but I would love to hear from you what that feeling was like when you finally let go and and you ripped off the band-aid and you said, Yeah, no more. Like, enough is enough. We're making the change. Because I think everyone's probably been there who runs a business and it's it's terrifying. You don't know what the other side looks like. You're you know you're gonna lose a lot of revenue. I know from experience it was the best thing I ever could have done. I wish I did it a lot earlier, but you live and learn. But I would love to hear from you because that is a really courageous thing to do, knowing I'm giving up a ton of revenue and hoping it will be all right on the other side.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

Yeah. It so a couple things. One in the micro version, I'll tell you that I say to a lot of people is every time I've ever fired a client, I have landed equal or better within 48 hours. And it, I don't know why it happens over and over. So I tell people every year on your birthday, I want you to fire someone, an employee, a vendor, or a client. Someone's pissing you off, you might as well get them out of there. And every time you create, you get rid of that negative, whatever it is, you've opened space for something better to happen. And I and I'm just so thankful that that's the case. And it is, you get rid of that angry client, you feel better, the chills that you experience, like, oh, they're never gonna call me again. And it's there's some weird serendipity, like then the phone rings, you meet the right person, you're in the right mental space, whatever it is. Firing two-thirds of my revenue in one shot, it was it was a weird experience. When I did it, I had no fear, which sounds weird because I knew it's what I had to do. We were so off of what my purpose was and my mission was and what I tried to achieve as a firm. I wasn't living the life I wanted, my employees weren't living the lives they wanted, and we certainly weren't serving the clients the way I wanted to serve the clients. That's just not a healthy business, even though it was traditional accounting firm success. So I didn't be wasn't afraid of it because also, how hard is it to go back and get more tax clients? If I if I was wrong in getting them back, but I just didn't want them back. But I could have could have done it. So I knew there was an easy chance to get them back. But there were moments of doubt. Um, but what was really funny is the moments of doubt, whenever they surfaced, very shortly after the doubt surfaces, an example would come up where, like, oh yeah, that's right, why I do that. For example, when we said we fired everybody, anyone we were in the middle of doing the returns for, we of course were going to honor our agreement finished. So I was firing people in June of 2017 to tell them next January of 2018 you need to find someone. I was giving six months' notice, though this wasn't a panic attack. But we were working on this one lady's return, and in this moment of like, did I do something insane? Did I really make a bad mistake? She was the most horrible human being. She was caustic, accusatory, threatening. She was threatening me. She wrote this memo, and her memo was talking about how our attention to detail was awful and just terrible, and I should, you know, I'm gonna tell everybody because I did not include her middle initial W on the Texas franchise tax return page four and her K1. What? She was blasting me about rounding errors because the asset balance on her QuickBooks was $2 different than the asset balance on the tax return because of rounding. This she was horrible. And when that happened, I was like, oh yeah, that's right. That's why I don't do this. Yeah. Because she wasn't there throughout the year for us to work these details out. She was coming in hot and hurry up and panic about a tax return. So I got reminders that, yeah, that's right, I needed to stay on mission. Um, so it was funny, is like I every time I doubted myself, stick to your guns. If you believe in your plan, follow the plan and make that plan successful. It's very easy to backslide. It's like, have you ever broken up with a girlfriend and then realized maybe I should get back to her because you forgot how awful she was? Um, or got boyfriend, whatever. We've all done some version of that, like, yeah, that was a mistake. You made the decision for a reason, stick to it and move on with your life. So maybe a silly analogy, but that's the one that popped in my head while I was talking.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

No, that's that's so important because it again, to your point, made this huge decision this past winter, and then you know, as some of the backslide starts happening, it's like, uh, maybe maybe we'll go back to that that side of the the water we're on. No, like we made the decision for a reason. There was enough data to say this is what needs to happen. Re-emphasizing, stick with the decision you made. I think that's so important. I I love to hear that you did that and you come out on the other side and it's been so better. And and like you said, you just it is weird. All of a sudden, you say no to all of these things, and you're like, hey, we're gonna get rid of this, and then randomly, it's not I don't even think it's random though, because you're just you're more open to the universe, like you spoke about, and not to get super woo-woo, but like you are you're you're able to accept all those opportunities because you're looking through a different lens. So, to anyone listening who has that huge decision they're wavering with, uh dive in the deep end, rip off the band-aid and do it because the other side will be better because you're just gonna be in a better headspace.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

And you don't have to fire two-thirds your revenue. I mean, there was a bit of an what I should have done is I should have sold sold part of the book, right? I should have monetized it, but I was so clear that this is what I had to do. So there's some things I would have done differently there too, but just one. That one client, every time the phone rings, you're like, oh my God, yeah, just fire them. I don't care what their revenue is because you're presenting whatever that person is causing. So if that person's causing you stress and anxiety and fatigue, when you meet the next prospect, you're communicating stress, anxiety, and fatigue to them, and you don't maybe not even know it. It's when you're in, I'm at a place where I hate this, this is silly, but we don't have to land more clients. We choose. Now, does that mean I turn everybody away? No, I love helping. We don't have to land more clients. But if we do, I have a plan for that. And then I have a roadmap for what our next hiring is going to be. And and and I know where we're gonna go. I'm not trying to be a hundred person firm. I don't care about that stuff. It's about me and my employees and their lifestyle and the value we would bring. And if I'm not the biggest firm in the nation, who cares? Um, dude, I leave every day at 3 30 now. I take two months of vacation and travel to conferences anywhere between four to eight weeks a year. I'm kind of worthless here. Uh, I don't do client work. Like I built a system to get to this point, but it was very, very, very intentional to get to the point to where I'm purely CEO and sales guy, and my next thing is to hand off all the sales to people.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

Yeah, that's so cool. Sean, I I'm I've really enjoyed this conversation. I can't wait to hear you speak at GrowCon in a few weeks. Can't wait, can't wait to meet you in person to end this episode because we've gone a little bit over time, so I appreciate your uh your patience and flexibility. What is what is one actionable item listeners can take today from this podcast where you're like, go and implement this the second you're done listening to this episode to better you as an individual or to better

Schedule A Work On Business Day

SPEAKER_00 37:39

your business?

SPEAKER_01 37:39

Ooh. Um okay, you know what? I I have actually a trademarked concept called the work on the business day. One of the challenges we have is you listen to a podcast and you get a great idea. You go to a conference and you have a list of ideas, but you never implement them. Here's what I recommend. No less than quarterly, and for no less than four hours, I prefer the whole day. Block a day. That day you're not allowed to take emails, phone calls, anything related to the client. That's the day you are the owner of the company making decisions. Software to buy, employees to hire, prices to change, all the stuff that you're just like, I need to look at that. If you don't block it, it's never going to happen. If I have one secret to my success, it's the dedicated commitment to doing the work on the business days, to where I make the big decisions. I do it monthly now, um, and I actually continue to kind of sprinkle it in. Focus 100% on being the owner of the company. Now, to give you this, people say, I don't have time for that. If what if my clients call? There are no accounting emergencies in the world, guys. Nothing you do can't wait 24 hours. I promise you. And if I'm wrong, that is a huge exception. We need to investigate what that is. But when you clear out that day, you're gonna be more exhausted than you've ever been. It's gonna be one of the most intense things you've ever done, in that you're really diving deep into financials and forecasts and models and action items and lists. But that's how you move forward. If you don't commit the time, it's never gonna happen. And the next thing you know, you're gonna look up on your career and go, Well, I sure filled out a lot of forms. It's not what I thought my career was gonna be like. You have to decide, you have to make these decisions. So if you attend GrowCon, Scaling New Heights, Engage, whatever it is, or you just listen to these things, commit the time to analyze, distribute, but you cannot answer the phone, you cannot answer Teams, you cannot answer emails, and you I would really recommend you hide from family and coworkers. You don't want people knocking on your door while you're in your office doing this too. Get away. I go to coffee shops. I look like a crazy person with a laptop and nine notepads, but I it's it's how we create what we create, and I've found tremendous power for people when I when I recommend it. So that's that's what come off the top of my head when you ask the question there.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

I love it. That's so good. So, everyone, take Sean's advice, implement this right away. Go, go block off, pick a time in the calendar right now, and then abide by it, just like ripping the band-aid off we spoke about earlier. Actually do it and don't go back on the decision. Sean, thanks again. Thank you so much for coming on the show, spending some time with us. I again, I cannot wait to hear your presentation in a few weeks in Salt Lake City to meet in person to catch up a little bit more. Thanks for coming on the Accounting Leads Now podcast.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

Thanks, man. I really appreciate it.