#23: Avoid These Costly HR Mistakes : Build a Stronger Team with Shanna Trenchard

Many business owners focus on sales, marketing, and operations, but ignore HR until it’s too late. Whether it’s hiring the wrong people, losing top talent, or facing compliance risks, these issues can slow growth and create unnecessary headaches. The good news? A strong people strategy can help you scale smoothly, avoid legal pitfalls, and build a high-performing team.

In this episode of Brewing Business with Brady, we sit down with Shanna Trenchard, founder of Trenchard Consulting, to break down the HR strategies every business needs, without the corporate jargon. You’ll learn how to hire smarter, improve team dynamics, and prevent HR disasters before they happen.

Main Topics:

✅ Why HR is more than just compliance and how it impacts growth
✅ The biggest risks business owners face and how to mitigate them
✅ How self-awareness and intentional hiring shape a thriving company

Connect with Shanna: 

💼 Website: https://trenchardconsulting.com/

🔗 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannaporamapornpilas/

#hrmistakes #businessgrowth #hiringtips #leadership #smallbusiness #companyculture #peoplestrategy #entrepreneurship #teambuilding #hrconsulting

Connect with Mason: https://www.linkedin.com/in/masonbrady/

Visit BradyCFO: https://www.bradycfo.com/

If you enjoyed the episode, please be sure to rate, review, and of course, SUBSCRIBE!

LEAVE SOME FEEDBACK: If you enjoyed the series, please rate and review!

Have a business growth question you'd like Mason to cover in an upcoming episode? Email: info@bradycfo.com

Transcript

Mason Brady (00:01)
Hi everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Brewing Business with Brady. Today I have a really good friend and good meaning we play pickleball together. So it's a really good friend. Her name is Shanna Trenchard and she heads up Shanna or she heads up Trenchard Consulting. Sorry, I was going to throw Shanna in there one more time Shanna, but she heads up Trenchard Consulting and Shanna is an expert in all things HR. And so we are really excited because we actually have not previously had an HR guest on here before it to

Shanna Trenchard (00:19)
you

Mason Brady (00:30)
Really, we've had a recruiter, but we haven't had an HR expert. And this is a topic that for our audience, I think is gonna be really valuable because many of them are just at that cusp of their business growth where they really do need to consider some HR support and some HR management. And so really excited to have you on today, Shanna.

Shanna Trenchard (00:52)
Hey, thanks so much, Mason. I'm excited.

Mason Brady (00:54)
Awesome. obviously this is Brewing Business with Brady. So you got to tell us how do you start your day that yeah, what's in the mug today? There you go. Starbucks. Yep.

Shanna Trenchard (01:01)
Okay. Well, to be honest, how I start my day and,

Yep. I'm just the basic one, but okay. Truly, if we're talking about starting the day, about a year and a half ago, I start, I was introduced to AG one, right? Like the probiotics drink and I a little skeptical. I have been a diehard user of AG one ever since. So I start my morning with AG one. It really has made a difference. say, as far as like.

Mason Brady (01:25)
Okay.

Shanna Trenchard (01:31)
I never get sick. don't have the allergy problems anymore. yeah, I don't get paid to say that, but that is how I start my day. And then, yeah. And then really the Starbucks is kind of a routine with my husband and I, right? So we're both business owners. We don't have a lot of time to catch up regularly. So we would drop my son off at school in the morning and, make our way through Starbucks chat a little bit on the way.

Mason Brady (01:40)
Yeah, all good.

Shanna Trenchard (01:59)
before we get our days started.

Mason Brady (02:02)
Awesome. Yeah,

I mean, so many people talk about how much money is going down the drain with Starbucks and stuff, but at the same point in time, yeah, there's just those little luxury items that's like, if it's what gets your day going and you enjoy it, That, hey, so be it. That, yeah, this is what you need in order to have a good start to the day. And I've heard a lot about AG1. I've seen a lot of the ads. you're the first one that I've heard that is a consistent user of it. I...

Shanna Trenchard (02:29)
Yeah.

Mason Brady (02:29)
I think since I've seen your pickleball game that I think I'm going to have to start using it, see if it improves for me.

Shanna Trenchard (02:36)
Yeah, we'll give them a little bit of credit for that, but

yeah, my advice is just don't do the math on what you're spending, right? Just don't do it. I made that mistake at one point and had to take a deep breath, but I think about it as more of an experience. It's our time together and part of our routine that gets our day going. So.

Mason Brady (02:41)
Yeah, there you go. Yep.

Awesome. Yep. Cool. little, little

date, you know, a little date in the morning and stuff. Right. So, so yeah, I kind of dive in here, Shanna that, yeah, we could talk about AG one and coffee all day. Right. But, yeah, diving in here, you, you are a people strategist. are an HR, you know, strategist for businesses that, you know, trench or consulting provides fractional HR services to, you know, smaller midsize businesses that really need that support. But

Shanna Trenchard (03:15)
Uh-oh.

Mason Brady (03:24)
aren't in a position to have a full-timer in that role yet, right? I'm really interested that with your background, your experience, what was kind of the pivotal moment for you of really understanding that value of crafting a people strategy for a business that when did the light bulb really turn on that, wow, like you saw the power of what this can do for a business?

Shanna Trenchard (03:49)
So when you're in HR, everybody assumes like you hire people, you fire people, right? And everybody hears right person, right seat. and, and I consider that like the basics. Yes, of course we want the right person in the right seat. And I spent years doing that. I would say if you're asking about more of a pivotal moment of like truly the impact, would say a few years ago, I became a

certified predictive index partner, right? Predictive index is one of those behavioral assessments that really dives into people's work behaviors. And I geek out on stuff like that. Like I think it's super cool. And when I got my predictive index report back, I was like, they looked into my soul, Mason, by me answering a couple of questions. And I had a client, fairly small client, and the sales guy was reporting into the operations manager.

And they were just not getting along. Okay. They just could not work it out. And I had them both take a PI. and it was one of those like aha moments where it's like, of course you guys aren't getting along because what makes one tick is the complete opposite of what made the other tick. And so.

They're both trying to drive their own initiatives, right? Our sales guy is trying to like boost sales and new ideas and drive the business this way. And then you've got our operations manager who is like, what's the process? What's the procedure slow down? So you've got, they're literally pulling in opposite directions. And that's when I was like, okay, we've got a great sales guy in a good role. We've got a great ops manager. So right seat, right role, we felt like they were good at the jobs that they were doing.

But we hadn't put as much focus on that working relationship between the two of them and helping them understand each other and what makes the other one tick and how that is a pitfall between their working relationship and seeing the perspective of the other one. And so, I mean, we sat down, we went through it, talked about what that looks like, how to vocalize that whenever they're having conflict about what's going to happen next.

And it really was a game changer. And so as we moved forward from that point, a lot of people that we talked to is like, okay, this is the skillset that I want. This is the personality that we need, like all of those things. We start to incorporate a little bit more about, okay, who is the leader that's going to lead that person? Right. And we're not necessarily saying that you need to change who the supervisor is of whoever, you know, of that position. It's more about.

just kind of vocalizing and acknowledging what that dynamic between the two would be. So hopefully that answers your question. Yeah.

Mason Brady (06:41)
Nope. No, I,

no, it makes complete sense that, I mean, I'm familiar with predictive insects index. but I actually have a book on the corner of my desk. it's called, if you haven't read it, it's called the synergist. and it talks about four different types of, leadership profiles and not even leadership profiles, but just like profiles of how people work. And it's the visionary, the operator mindset, the processor mindset and the synergist mindset. that everybody, nobody's a perfect.

Shanna Trenchard (06:55)
That's it.

Mason Brady (07:10)
you know, 100 % in each, but they have a dominant trait in each and, and then they have a secondary trait in each. you know, the processor being the type of person that really wants processes followed, right? That, they need to, they, they feel at home when they've completed a task from a all the way to point in Z and, then the visionary is getting them to, you know, sit down and follow a process from a to Z. Like it's going to make them pull their hair out and there's nothing, there's nothing wrong with that. Right. and I think that.

Shanna Trenchard (07:33)
you

Mason Brady (07:40)
Sometimes we we put ideas that, hey, it is important to follow through with a task, right? But the idea that everybody is going to put value on following, you know, the task in the same way is, it's just wrong, right? It's not the right mindset that, that there are people that they will see the new opportunity and they are the creative ones that will run with it.

Shanna Trenchard (07:59)
Absolutely.

Mason Brady (08:07)
while the person that loves the processes will probably not go after that creative opportunity and they'll make sure that the process is done and the business needs both, right? And the business needs different people at different stages. so I just love that you've kind of opened that up because yeah, I think so many of us as business owners that, hey, I have to hire a job description. They have to have the technical skill set. But I think you've kind of opened up that

Shanna Trenchard (08:18)
Mm-hmm.

Mason Brady (08:35)
It's not even just understanding the profile of the person, it's understand the profile of the supervisor too, and that how are those two gonna work together? And I think a lot of people have taken a step of trying to understand the profile of the candidate, but it's like, yeah, but you gotta understand the profile of the leader and how they're going to interact with that person and how they're gonna jive together too, and that that can work best too, right? So I love that you've opened that up, yeah.

Shanna Trenchard (08:44)
Yeah.

Yeah,

absolutely. And I mean, it really kind of goes back to when you think about the goals of the company and like what's coming up, what are you trying to drive? Understanding the different, you know, personalities and work behaviors of people and making sure that you have someone who fits that profile of what you're trying to achieve. Like if it is the year of, you know, operational efficiencies and processing, like process documentation and, you know, kind of

getting things ticked and tied before you take that next big leap in sales. Do you have someone who really excels at doing that? Because if you try to get all your sales guys to document their processes, you're going to be waiting a really long time.

Mason Brady (09:45)
Yeah, absolutely. I agree.

And I think I understand the nuances of people's personalities too. Like the people that are really great at creating and implementing processes. There's also people that are great at getting crap done, right? But that doesn't mean that they like processes. They're just good at getting crap done. Right. And, and I mean, they are the person that when you have an objective coming up and you need to just go move, they'll go get something done.

Shanna Trenchard (10:07)
Mm-hmm.

Mason Brady (10:13)
I think sometimes people look at those as, they could be great processors or great, you know, great process oriented people because they, always get the task done. like, no, no, no, they got it done messy. Like they're the ones that they're the hammer that comes in that needs to get something done. But then sometimes you need the people that are the process or enters that, you know, Hey, how do you replicate what that operator just did 10 times over so that you can do it 10 times over flawlessly. Right. And, yeah, I, I think it's really understated of, you know,

Shanna Trenchard (10:35)
Mm-hmm.

Mason Brady (10:44)
just these types of profiles of people that are needed in your business, what stages are needed in, and I love that you're just talking about this because I think it's understated that you need particular profiles in your business at particular points and times of growth in your business, right? And if you are not considering the person's personality and what drives them, you're missing a huge picture in your hiring and your onboarding practice, right? yeah.

Shanna Trenchard (11:11)
Absolutely. And

it even comes down to, obviously, businesses aren't going to change their, you know, whole lineup every year. But when you look at the goals of the year, you know, who do you have driving each of those initiatives and is it the right person? You know, makes a difference.

Mason Brady (11:31)
Absolutely. I'm thinking even in our business that, know, like right now I'm personally focused on a lot of business development in our business, right? But we know that we need somebody in a role that is helping to onboard additional CFOs and controllers. And as we hire them and have quality customer satisfaction the first 30, 60 days as we onboard clients, right? And we actually, have a team member, like we did one of these tests and we figured out there is a team member that is more process oriented.

Shanna Trenchard (11:53)
Yeah.

Mason Brady (12:00)
And we are moving him into that position to take over that role, right? That he thrives in that. And so to your point, it's sometimes just understanding your own team, validating who they are and that where can you plug and play as you continue to move along too, right? So, yeah.

Shanna Trenchard (12:17)
Yeah, I'm

like giggling to myself right now, Mason, because like, if you were a client, as you're talking through it, you said, you know, we gave them one of those tests and like, we're so big on it's not a test because it's not pass fail. It's not a test. Don't make people feel like they can fail it. It's an assessment.

Mason Brady (12:26)
Yes, sure. Yep. Yes. Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. Fair enough. Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah. Wrong

verbiage for sure. Wrong verbiage. so yeah, I, you know, I'm going to be objective to this too, or try to, I'm probably going to be a bit bold here, Shanna and cause in the same way, accountants could get a bad rap and the term, you know, being, being counter goes around quite a bit, right?

Shanna Trenchard (12:36)
you

Go ahead.

yeah.

Mason Brady (12:53)
HR can get a bad rap too, right? That HR can certainly get a bad rap. And I think that's why I've enjoyed, you know, our personal friendship because I think your approach, you know, is, yeah, it is different than what even I've experienced in the HR world that literally I've talked with people and they say, I can't stand HR, right? And, and some of the business owners, mean,

You know, right. They started their business and we're talking about a lot of our audiences, you know, sitting with businesses between five to 50 million in sales. And, they're just at that inception point to where they've, they've had some home runs. They've really hit some success, but to get to that next step of growth, they're really having to formalize and begin to systemize their business a bit more. Right. And they're bringing in, you know, the key hires to think about, yeah, how do we get to that next step? And HR is certainly one of them.

Shanna Trenchard (13:36)
Mm-hmm.

Mason Brady (13:43)
And so I'm interested to understand, you know, lot of business owners, like they started a business, they wanted this freedom, they wanted this flexibility. They know HR is important, but, you know, what are some of the unique HR pitfalls that most business owners don't regularly consider that you want them to know that, Hey, this is really why you need to be considering an HR manager or, you know, fractional full-time, whatever the case is, but just, you need to be considering this in your business. This is why it's important to put an emphasis on HR.

Shanna Trenchard (14:14)
Okay, no, good question. and look, even as we're talking with different business owners about, this going to be a fit? One thing that we see is as a misconception is these businesses have been going along, right? They've been trucking along and nothing bad has happened, right? Like they haven't been burned, they haven't been sued. and so they're like, everything's okay. Like that must mean that everything is fine.

when it's like you just haven't been caught yet. Right. So there are a lot of things that are happening that probably shouldn't be happening or should be happening and aren't happening. That. You know, business owners typically like when they start a business, it's not because they're great at the people side or they know the HR compliance, right? They're good at whatever their product or their service is, and they just don't know what they don't know. So as an example, we have a client.

Mason Brady (14:46)
Yes. Yep.

Shanna Trenchard (15:12)
who I guess I've had them about two and a half years now and they'll do just under 20 million this year. And when I was having these first conversations with them, I mentioned I-9s. Okay. Now coming from a corporate background, right, we're probably a little too ticked and tied sometimes. It hinders business, but very ticked and tied. So to come into an organization and ask about I-9s and they're like, what's an I-9? Okay. So they're

not verifying identity and eligibility to work in the United States. And it's not because they weren't trying to do the right thing, right? They want to be doing the right thing. They just had no idea. Right? And that's what a lot of like HR compliance is. People categorizing contractors as contractors when really they should be employees based on the way that you have that working relation structured. So from a pitfalls perspective, it's just them thinking that

there's not a problem because they haven't been burned yet. But I mean, it really takes one time, right? You get one big, you lose a big harassment lawsuit, something like that. I mean, that could, I want say wipe you out, but it could wipe you out, right? So really bringing somebody in who can help guide you on what you should be doing to really mitigate risk, it becomes important. And what's cool is like,

Mason Brady (16:25)
Absolutely.

Shanna Trenchard (16:39)
We kind of start a lot of times with people talking about the compliance side and how do we make sure you're compliant, we're mitigating risk for you and setting up your business in a way that is a little more people friendly. But it grows into this relationship where they start to see the ancillary value add, right? Like, again, people think HR, they think hiring and firing. They don't think about really that partnership of talking through people related situations and how...

you know, every change or tweak that you make in your business is going to affect people somehow. So, and that's been, that's been really cool to experience.

Mason Brady (17:17)
No, I, you know, in my corporate career, worked with an excellent HR manager that I definitely would say, you know, lot of people look at HR as a compliance, you know, role. you know, we started this off with, yeah, the predictive index and really a people strategy, right. And, you know, every business owner is going to come with their own bias when hiring people or, know, how they're managing those people and how they're doing it. Right. And I can't, I'm thinking of an example here of.

Shanna Trenchard (17:29)
Mm-hmm.

Mason Brady (17:47)
You know, we've had a client that, yeah, one of his operations managers was committing a lot of very serious sexual harassment against the female employees. And the business owner had no idea of it. And finally, one of the employees came forward and said that this had happened. And, you know, it's like, we're very lucky that, you know, there wasn't, you know, further legal issues that did arise for.

this business owner that there wasn't claims made against this business owner, et cetera. that it would have crumbled them had they had to play, had they had to pay out a lawsuit claim. It would have just come, it would have folded the business. And, you know, and it's, yeah, and it's not, it's just, you know, Hey, had you had another set of eyes and person, you know, that interviewed this person in the original interview to get a read on the person.

Shanna Trenchard (18:27)
Yeah, I believe it.

Mason Brady (18:41)
I saw extreme value in this HR manager that I worked with that, I just, her ability to read people and to kind of get, you know, an eye on. Yeah. Something's not sitting right in my gut here with their answers. you know, and, just that experience of walking through so many interviews and, and, and we're talking about hiring right here, but you know, it extends into the workplace too, that how that employee comes to work and how they're,

Shanna Trenchard (18:41)
you

Mason Brady (19:09)
you know, how they're engaged in their work practices. I just, saw such value in just HR being able to really sniff some things out too, you know, to make sure that that business is protected and that you, are guarding a people culture that is important and that the employees feel safe and they feel protected and they feel secure. And, and so, yeah, I, I think to me, yeah, you know, for business owners that they look at it, you know, HR significantly in compliance, but it's really, it's that.

you know, set of eyes that's really going to protect you and your business and make sure that your people are operating well, right? And that they're safe and secure. and so at least from my experience,

Shanna Trenchard (19:46)
Yeah, and I can say like our experience with the clients that we have, you know, in the beginning of the relationship, it is a lot of compliance, right? Like we're looking under the hood. We're doing our audit. We're kind of prioritizing things based on risk that we need to get fixed. Cause like, please don't try and do it all at one time, right? Like let's put a plan together so we're not overwhelming the team.

Mason Brady (19:48)
Ahem.

Yeah, yep.

Shanna Trenchard (20:12)
But then once we get through that phase of feeling pretty compliant, having things a little bit more ticked and tied, I would say the majority of our time is really working with the business owner on more strategy, what's going on with the team, how are we making the environment better, what do we want to do for perks and benefits this upcoming year. We're talking a little bit more about the people.

than we do early on to where like that's the majority of our conversations and it's just a little bit of stuff happening from a compliance perspective.

Mason Brady (20:50)
Yep, totally.

I am interested to understand in your experience. I feel like I've experienced this where the actual business owner themselves is the biggest risk, is the biggest HR risk, right? You know that, and they may not be aware of it, but you know what they say, how they carry themselves in the workplace, they are the actual biggest HR risk for that entire enterprise, right? And yeah.

Shanna Trenchard (21:02)
you

Yeah.

Mason Brady (21:17)
Have you encountered these situations and how have you navigated it?

Shanna Trenchard (21:21)
who more than once actually we kind of joke about my husband being my biggest HR nightmare. so he's one, he's one. I kid, but there are times where I'm like, you know what I do for a living, right? Like, can we button that up a little bit? but yes, there are. I don't want to say frequent, right? But on more than one occasion.

Mason Brady (21:29)
Fair enough.

Yeah. Yep.

Shanna Trenchard (21:49)
We've had situations where it's been the business owner that is quote unquote the problem, right? So they bring us in because they're having an issue or they want to be better at their people strategy. And as we start diving in and we really, we get to know the business owner, but we also get to know the team, right? Like we kind of pride ourselves on being, becoming a part of the team, building trust and relationships with not just the business owner.

right. Cause that's one perspective we need to understand really what's happening in the inner workings of all the people of the business. and we have a business owner who really like the end of the day, he kind of was acting like his poop didn't stink. Right. Like he had all the answers. He was always right. He wasn't the problem. And we started seeing a little bit more turnover and turnover and through accident interviews and talking with people, it was, you know what he is preaching core values. Right.

he is saying this is what's important, but he is not modeling that himself. he says that he's going to do this one thing and then we do this other thing. so not really standing behind or his actions weren't aligning with what he was telling the team. And so really navigating that, you know, right, wrong or indifferent. can be a pretty direct individual whenever I need to be. and I think a big part of HR is being able to balance.

truth with empathy, right? Our clients don't pay us to be the yes man, right? You don't bring me in because everything is great and you just want me to agree with everything that you have going on. And so we do have to have some of those hard conversations and occasionally it's with the business owner to point it out. But we approach those situations just like we coach managers to have conversations with their team, which is

Provide examples, right? Don't fluff it up. If you're having a very serious conversation, we don't need to add fluff in to make the message confusing. So, you know, we'll usually have an offsite, like we'll go to lunch, we'll go to breakfast, grab coffee, something like that outside of the office space, and just have a very real conversation about feedback that we're getting, some examples that we've witnessed, right? So we do try to kind of balance like what we're...

it's like an investigation, right? You get told something is happening and you go kind of investigate it yourself. You try to put together the pieces to understand what's happening as a whole. And then we have a very point blank conversation with that individual. And then we talk about like, how are we going to fix this? Right? Like, how are you going to work on yourself? And how are you going to communicate to your team that you're acknowledging

this about yourself or about your work behaviors and that you're focusing on it. Because I think even just vocalizing to the team to say like, guys, okay, I realize I've not been great at this. This is what I'm trying to do to fix it. Call me out on it, right? Respectfully, but call me out on it. Like sometimes they just don't even realize that they're doing it and they need somebody to be that voice. But everybody's scared of pointing out the pitfalls of

their manager, right? Nobody wants to be that person. So we step in and we're that person, we're that voice for the team that's not afraid to have the hard conversation with the business owner.

Mason Brady (25:17)
Cool. I mean, I think you're highlighting a point that I think, especially for these business owners, if it's their first time owning a business, they may feel like they have to have all the answers or as a leader that they have to feel like they're the one that does have clear direction charge, you know, and they're in charge and they're, you know, the right leader. And that's just not the case, right? You're not going to have all the answers and you also are not perfect as a person and you're going to make mistakes and

Shanna Trenchard (25:29)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Mason Brady (25:46)
at the same time, like there's that balance of, yeah, you do have to set direction. You do have to, you know, be able to give direction to the team, I think acknowledging that you're not perfect, right? Is critical in terms of leadership that, it's, it's the one way that you want your team to open up to you. you want them to bring ideas and to feel safe to do that. and if, if they feel like their voice isn't heard, you're, probably are going to lose those people over time. And, there's this theme of, yeah, you don't have to have all the answers.

Shanna Trenchard (26:02)
Absolutely.

Mason Brady (26:13)
It's okay to not feel like, you know, you have to be right. And, you know, and, and just, yeah, you still have to give direction, but at the same point in time, like be open to being wrong and, acknowledging it. And, actually I think your team will respect you a heck of a lot more for doing it. They, they will actually get behind you and lead and allow, be comfortable with your leadership and knowing that, Hey, I don't have to be perfect because he just admitted he's not either. Right. and so I don't have to show up. I don't have to put on a show every day at work either too. Right.

Shanna Trenchard (26:29)
Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. We normalize mistakes, right? Cause that's how we're going to learn and grow.

Mason Brady (26:43)
Yeah.

Yep. Yep.

yeah, I, I'm interested, like, you know, we've talked about some of this correction too, right? But like, you know, what are some of the key things that you would tell a business owner that, you know, cause there's this concept of, right, you know, your culture starts from the top down. It starts from leadership, right? It does start from top down. I'm a big believer in that, that,

Shanna Trenchard (27:10)
Mm hmm. Yeah.

Mason Brady (27:15)
It doesn't mean, I don't believe it means that you have to have your hands in everything and that, you know, hey, you need to be doing, you know, this every day, et cetera, et cetera. But there are probably a few key things that if it starts from the top down in regards to what your people strategy and your culture looks like, there are probably some key things that some of those business owners and leadership consider. What would you say that those things are Shana that you find is the greatest success for business owners to.

to really make sure that their people-centric strategy is really going to work well.

Shanna Trenchard (27:49)
I mean, the biggest thing is like, just do what you say you're going to do. Right? I think that that alone can move mountains. Right? And it really does. sets the tone. Like everything that the leader is doing sets the tone. Right? It's also clear expectations and setting those for the team. Because whenever

Oftentimes, if we're having a performance issue that we're having to work through with someone on a team, always, our role is kind of asking the questions, okay, well, what expectation was set? Cause is this, is this really a problem because they're doing something wrong or do they have the wrong expectation of what's going on? And so I think a leader that can do what they're say, do what they say they're going to do sets really good expectations. And then like you hear about it everywhere. It's the communication piece.

And, you know, and I admittedly like communication, right? People always think like, HR, you must be really good at communicating and talking with people. And I'm not like, it's not my, I guess, best trait. And I tell my team that and they know that, and they know that it is something that I have to like really focus on, on, you know, bringing people along in the journey. I do get caught up in, okay, we got this done moving on or, that person accepted that offer.

Wait, did I circle back to Marcus to let him know that that person accepted the offer? Right, we just get kind of get going on things. But really keeping the team up to speed on what's happening in the business is super important for setting the culture. Because they're expecting me to communicate with them. I'm expecting them to communicate with clients, right? It kind of goes back to that expectation setting. And when everybody feels like they know what's happening, right?

then people aren't creating their own narratives of what's going on behind the scenes, but they just feel informed to be able to do their job well.

Mason Brady (29:51)
Yep. You didn't bring it up, but you brought it up somewhat indirectly too, Like recognizing your own weaknesses and probably communicating those so that your team knows how to operate and communicate with you as a leader too, right? like this is where, like, I mean, I tell most of the team, I have some team members that aren't big on it, but yeah, like.

Shanna Trenchard (30:04)
Yeah.

Mason Brady (30:12)
the millennial in me, I text, right? Like I do a lot of communication over text. Like if you're not ready for that, you know, and I probably need to adapt to my team a little bit better, but that is regularly going to be how I communicate, sending voice memos and texting. And if you're not ready for that, you know, I don't know what to tell you. just be prepared that that's how I communicate, right? So, you know, and I think understanding yourself a bit too, right? So that was good. Yeah, what, you know, I'm interested because

Shanna Trenchard (30:15)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Mason Brady (30:42)
I think a lot of business owners do understand and you have expanded upon it. Like I think that that element you just said there, do what you say that you're going to do. Like, you know, and I've seen it before too. Sometimes we've had clients that they say that they're very values oriented. They put their values up on the wall, but then I've walked through situations where they've interacted with vendors and it's like, you did not fulfill that whatsoever. And your team can feel that and.

You did not walk. And I think that's why it's so important to be open and receptive to the feedback. But I think it's actually, I think it's almost worse when you take a stand as to what your values are and you don't commit to them. I think that a lot of people put a lot of value in and throw in the values out there, but then it means that people are going to hold you that standard. And if you're not ready to be held to that standard,

Shanna Trenchard (31:11)
Absolutely.

Yes.

Mason Brady (31:39)
That's actually worse for you. think people are going to make harder judgments on that. That you said this and you do something else, right? I mean, we see it in politics, etc. Everybody has very, you know, very significant opinions on it. But your yes is your yes, your no is your no, right? And if you say you're going to do something, even if your values or say you're going to complete a task by a particular date, you just got to do it like it's got to get done and you have to follow it. And it's not to say you're not going to make mistakes, but

Shanna Trenchard (31:56)
Okay.

Mason Brady (32:09)
You have to find importance in doing it right. I, I, there any other, you know, kind of pitfalls or like, you know, things that ever so many business owners know that they need to be more people centric. They see this idea that, yeah, they need to put values up on the wall. They need to create values, et cetera, et cetera.

You've identified some pitfalls. If you don't do what you say that you actually say you're about and that you know, and that you need to do that as one pitfall. Are there any other things that you would say that leaders need to watch out for as they're trying to become more people centric in their culture? They're trying to develop a better people strategy. What are some other things that you're like, yeah, these are hot button issues that you've really got to work on as a business owner, business leader and make sure that this is in place.

Shanna Trenchard (32:56)
Yeah. I mean, just kind of elaborating a little bit on what you're saying as well on the, know, everybody feels like they had to put core values up on the wall. And that, that's one thing that I don't, I don't want to say it drives an HR consultant crazy, but it's like, don't do things just because it's like the cool thing to do right now. Right? Like if you're going to do something, do it because it makes sense for your business and your business is ready for it.

Mason Brady (33:13)
Cool. Yeah. Yep.

Yeah.

Shanna Trenchard (33:23)
Right? Or

Mason Brady (33:23)
Yep.

Shanna Trenchard (33:24)
you know that you want to steer your business in that direction and you're ready to be held accountable to whatever that may be. So every business feels like, I got to have core values. And then you ask them, okay, well, what are their core values? And they're like, hang on, wait, let me, let me see. they're, you know, they're this. Right? That's because, know, some coach or book or somebody told you that you needed to have core values, but like.

Are you really operating that way? Are you really holding that standard? So I think core values are great. Like it sets the expectation of the type of people and the type of environment that you, you know, the standard that you have as a business, whether it's interacting internally or externally, I think it's great. You know, if you're doing it the right way and, know, with the right purpose and implementation of it. It's very similar to like policies and handbooks.

You know, as businesses are growing, they're like, I need policies, I need handbooks, which yes, you do. And we want to write the rules before we need the rules, is what I say about policies. But when you put a policy out there, you better be ready to enforce it. Right? Because a lot of businesses are operating under like, well, this is what we typically do in this situation. OK, well, if you want to grow and put that structure in place, you really have to get into that. We're going to treat

everyone the same way and treat that situation the same way. So that's a part of becoming a big boy company and making big boy decisions, right? Like, you put those things in place and you stand behind them. So we do, we see people will put policies or handbooks in place and then they'll make a decision that is completely different from what it says in their policy. And we're like, okay, well, does the policy need to change or does your practice need to change?

Because right now the two of them aren't marrying.

Mason Brady (35:21)
Yeah, I, it's like, there's this evolution. you know, I talked with a gentleman yesterday, name is Scott Ritzheimer. And he has come up with a book called the founder's evolution where, know, a business owner and how they start their business. like there's seven different roles that they need to evolve in. And, you know, they're, they reach a point to where they're like, it's what's called, he calls it the reluctant manager where it's like, yeah, all of a sudden, you know, you did all the business development and you could do client service delivery and you've built out a small team, but now you have to be a manager.

Right. And you have to start putting on the big boy pants and you have to start, you know, holding people accountable. And to this point that, yeah, you want systems and processes, but you have to ask yourself, are you ready to enforce those? because you could talk about that you need systems and process all day, but so this isn't processes are useless unless you enforce them. And it really does come down to that people management that you have to have those people management skills to actually get any value of the system and processes. Right. And,

Shanna Trenchard (35:51)
Thank

Yeah.

Mason Brady (36:20)
You're just bringing up a really good point as to, think that it's hard for a lot of business owners within smaller, you know, smaller midsize businesses to make that evolution that yeah, they want to see the benefits of systems and processes, but it's still there's accountability that has to happen, right? That there's still a people focus here that it's not just a system and process that'll fix your issue. is still, and sometimes I find too, sometimes

Shanna Trenchard (36:38)
Mm-hmm.

Mason Brady (36:50)
there's almost an effort to put a system or process in place as a band-aid when the problem really is a person issue, right? When it's like, yeah, it's not that your sales system is broken, it's that your sales director does whatever the heck he wants to do without any concern for how it affects anybody else, right? And that's the problem that you need to go address and you need to put your big boy pants on and go address, not that...

Shanna Trenchard (37:01)
Great.

Yeah.

Mason Brady (37:18)
well, we need to make systems and process for that, you know, and somehow try to make everybody feel like, it's a systems and processes, you know, you just need to go have a hard conversation. Right? Yeah.

Shanna Trenchard (37:28)
Right. And

really, we experienced that a lot. It's like, again, I go back to the business owner being the business owner because they were good at a thing. It wasn't necessarily the people side, but as you grow and you have to learn to have those difficult conversations, that is a skill in and of itself, right? How to have that conversation effectively and respectfully. And so if, if a supervisor hasn't been coached or mentored on doing that well,

They're probably not going to do it well. Right. And so that is where kind of that partnership that we have with the businesses comes into play is because whether we're the ones stepping in to facilitate that hard conversation or we're the one coaching up the supervisor on how to handle it, know, role playing with them on how that conversation might go. It makes a difference, but you're right.

There's a difference in having a five person company and a 20 person company from the systems and processes that you have to have in place down to the way that you communicate with them. Right. Because you go from being a couple of people, maybe sitting in a room and it's easy to just like look up and give an update to everybody versus now if you've got 10 people that you're giving an update to, what does that look like? How do you make sure that everyone is staying aware of things happening? So it's a lot of change. It's a lot of change.

Mason Brady (38:51)
Agreed, and...

I think, you it's interesting is I didn't mean that this podcast would go here, but I think we've talked a lot about the change that the leader needs to make, right? That to be successful with people-centered strategies that, and, you know, HR and bringing in HR help is important, but I think there's still this evolution that has to happen within leadership for HR to be successful too, right? That to get, you know, full value, but not just HR, anything in the business, but you know, they're, they're in terms of a people-centered strategy that

Shanna Trenchard (38:58)
you

Mason Brady (39:22)
HR is certainly, know, an outsourced HR help is certainly, you know, a benefit. It can, it can allow one to see, you know, where are the blinders and what needs to be worked on, but there's still a lot core and fundamental to the leadership itself and the business ownership itself, you know, moving in the right direction to help their business grow.

Shanna Trenchard (39:40)
Yeah. Did you ever watch the series Billions?

Mason Brady (39:44)
I've seen a couple of episodes, but yeah, not all the way, not in depth. Yeah.

Shanna Trenchard (39:49)
Okay. So, one of our clients who I've worked with for over four years at this point. So in billions, you know, you've got your like head guy was called the head owner for anybody who hasn't seen billions of this huge organization. And he has somebody on his team and her name is Wendy and she's kind of like the in-house therapist. Really? And like everybody on the team goes and visits a Wendy once a week, whatever, just to kind of like talk through how they're doing and.

Mason Brady (39:51)
Ahem.

Shanna Trenchard (40:18)
And Wendy is that voice in the ear of the owner. Right? She's not front and forward. She's not trying to steal the spotlight, anything like that. But she is the one that he bounces ideas off of and talks through situation. And she gives a different perspective. She gives the people perspective of what's going on in the business and how the decisions will influence. And so this client that I've worked with for years, like when he introduces me to people, he says, she's my Wendy.

Mason Brady (40:48)
There you go. Awesome. Yeah. Yep.

Shanna Trenchard (40:48)
Right. And like

that is the role that, you know, we kind of jokingly say we're the in-house therapist. a lot of times, whether it be with the owner or with the employees, which is a, you know, a role that people don't necessarily think of for HR, but it's important. Sometimes people just need someone to listen and give a little bit of feedback. Yeah.

Mason Brady (41:06)
Yep. Yep. Absolutely. That I I've seen immense value in that,

that, you know, the reality too, like no matter how good of a boss and leader you are, that people aren't always going to feel comfortable directly coming and talking to you. And that's not a reflection of you. That could be a reflection of their own upbringing. There are past experiences that, yeah, they just don't feel as comfortable in being direct as direct with you, no matter how good caring and serving you are as a leader. It's just not going to be perfect. And

You need that feedback within your organization to really understand like, how are people really feeling about these changes? you know, do they, do they like what's happening? What's the real feedback in the HR, you know, department will get that, you know, and that they, they will get that and be that voice to leader as to what's the real heartbeat of the organization here. What's really going on. And, yeah, I've seen the value in that too. And, yeah. So you're, you will now be referred to as Wendy Shanna. Great. Well.

Shanna Trenchard (41:43)
Mm-hmm.

Mason Brady (42:06)
Shannon, this was great. I guess you can kind of see that I really value this people strategy side of it, right? That it's so critical and important. I'm a big believer too, and I'm probably, there's probably things that I'm blind to that I'm probably gonna get hit on that in terms of, hey, you said that you were about this and you weren't this, right? And I'm a big believer in that, it's just so critical. You brought it up that, you

do what you say you're gonna do, right? And that's just one of the key takeaways here. If you say that you're about something or you say you're gonna do something, do it, right? And so I love that. What other major insights as we begin to wrap up, is there anything else that you'd want our audience to really know about, your firm does outsource HR management and consulting, so for businesses that aren't in a position to have a full-time HR team member, that you all are a perfect fit for them, but...

Shanna Trenchard (42:36)
This is.

Mason Brady (43:03)
you know, what would you say to our audience of business owners listening that, you know, what are some final takeaways that you feel like they should consider that maybe we haven't talked about yet?

Shanna Trenchard (43:12)
I think it's really, you know, a conversation never hurts to understand, like, what do you not know? because we do have clients who have no one in house that are handling HR. And then we have others who do have a couple of people that are handling their HR, but maybe they're more like coordinators, doers, executors of paperwork kind of thing. but to talk more strategy and compliance.

And you don't know what you don't know. So just to have a conversation of it's a check. It's like a checkup, a check-in. We call it our HR audit. Let's just talk through what some of your systems and processes are. Make sure that you're good to go. Maybe you are. Like there are some people out there, and we have. We have had interactions with potential clients where we go through an HR audit and we're like, guys, you've got it dialed in.

Right? Like, yes, we can help with go forward strategy and new ideas and stuff like that. But when it comes to the compliance stuff, A plus. You're good. Right? We're not here just to try and insert ourselves if you don't need us. We want to add value. But I think just recognizing the fact of if you're not the HR professional, you don't know what you don't know. And it may seem fine. Everything may seem fine. again, circling back to what we talked to early on.

Mason Brady (44:09)
You're Yep. Yep.

Yep. Yep.

Shanna Trenchard (44:33)
just because you haven't been caught or something hasn't happened that can blow up in your face doesn't mean that the opportunity isn't there in your business. One final thing, which is kind of terrifying, but just kind of popped in my head is, in the world of social media that we have right now, there are actually people out there posting videos of how to screw over your employer, which is terrifying, right? And so...

Mason Brady (44:41)
100%.

Yep. It is.

Shanna Trenchard (44:59)
having your business ticked and tied becomes really important because there are people out there training others on how to find the holes in your business and how to cash in, have a payday and not have to really work. But it ends up, you know, screwing the business owner, unfortunately.

Mason Brady (45:17)
Yeah. No, it's,

it's the California in me, but yeah, as you know, for businesses over there, when I used to live over there that, you know, just how much training we would have to go through, because of just how litigious the state is, you know, overall. And I mean, we watched this video that it just made me laugh one time of, you know, an example of, you know, workers' comp fraud. And it was this gal where, she was sitting at her desk and the fire sprinkler fell down.

in front of her on her desk and it just it was the fire spring that just fell down from the roof from the ceiling I should say and she she quickly saw it and she took it and rammed it into her head and I mean they caught it on video right but it's it's it's like wow that quick thinking she had been thinking of that you know or she had been considering something like that for how long and her full intent was it was yeah

Shanna Trenchard (46:11)
Right.

Mason Brady (46:14)
predicated like she it was all there of how am I going to screw this business owner so that ultimately I don't have to work a day in my life again and you know, Thank the Lord that yeah, they had a video camera on her that caught that you know, but it's real and you know and not trying to be negative, right but we've worked with especially many construction clients sadly that

somebody has committed fraud in their business. know that somebody on their accounting team has committed fraud and you know, there are great people out there. There's also bad people out there, right? And that's the key of it is sometimes I think you and I both have had experiences where somebody can interview really great, but that doesn't mean that they're actually a great employee. And so it's this type of stuff that you you don't, you can't, as you're growing, you can't have your hands in every part of the business and

Shanna Trenchard (46:41)
Mm-hmm.

Absolutely.

Mason Brady (47:05)
You don't know if somebody's intentions are the right intentions and having somebody in HR watching over your back is really important. So yeah, awesome. Well, yeah, Shanna, tell our audience where they could find out more about you, about a trench or consulting that I know, you know, on LinkedIn, I follow you and you definitely, you're, you're introducing some old videos that I've seen some shorts now where you were pregnant back then. So yeah, you're, going through some of the old content. Yeah. Yep.

Shanna Trenchard (47:11)
Yeah, couldn't agree more.

few calls on that actually.

what's funny is the girl who does our social media, we were talking about, you know, holidays being upon us and, you know, putting those reminders out there. So of course we did a short on that a couple of years ago and she's like, do you think I could put this out here? You're pregnant. I'm like, okay, as long as we put something in there that maybe is like a, hey, here's an oldie, but a goodie kind of thing. But I did. It's funny you say that because I got a couple of calls on, my goodness, are you expecting again? Like, no, nope.

Mason Brady (47:49)
Yeah. Yup.

Yeah, nope.

Shanna Trenchard (47:58)
Not at the moment.

Mason Brady (47:59)
We're good.

Shanna Trenchard (48:01)
Yeah. So, yep, we've got, of course, TrenchyardConsulting.com tells you a little bit about our business and some of the support and things that we do. We are on LinkedIn, Trenchyard Consulting. You can also follow us on Instagram and TikTok. We've got some content out there. And look, we try to post content out there that's helpful to those business owners who maybe don't have that in-house guidance. So lots of little

tips and things to be mindful of, maybe thought provoking in your business.

Mason Brady (48:31)
Awesome. Well, yeah. Thank you, Shannon for joining us today that, yeah, I really loved how you've highlighted the reality of a good people strategy and, it's value that can be brought to businesses. So really, really appreciate having you on.

Shanna Trenchard (48:43)
Hey, this is great. Thanks so much, Mason. Appreciate the invite. Always love talking with you.

Mason Brady (48:46)
Awesome.

Yep. I'll see you pickleball soon. Okay. Yep. Cool. So I, from here, I, I'll do the intro. I'm going to, I'll ask you to leave, but, yeah, I'll do the intro now that we kind of have all that content fresh. And, I would say from here, we do have a backlog of episodes. We just, try to create that so that, you know, if I don't get to some recordings for some time, we're still good. So I'm figuring that, yeah, your episode will probably drop in either later January or early February, to be honest.

Shanna Trenchard (48:49)
This sounds good.

Yeah, of course.

Mason Brady (49:16)
yeah. And Cindy will reach out that she'll share all the marketing assets with you that you can have your social media person, you know, share too, so that you all can promote it too and promote the episode. so yeah, well, yeah, it'll, it should, she'll be in heavy communication to share all that and when the episode's going to drop and all that for your team. Awesome. It went well. Yeah, it went well. That, yeah, it went great. That, yeah, if, if you were nervous that I didn't get any impression of that, that you did an excellent job. So yeah.

Shanna Trenchard (49:35)
Sounds good. How do you think it went?

You didn't see my heart beating like, like this out of my chest. good. All right. Well, thanks, Mason. This was awesome. Appreciate it. Okay. All right. Bye.

Mason Brady (49:49)
No, not at all. Yeah, you're calm, cool, and collected. So yeah, cool as a cucumber. So you're good. Yep. Awesome. Yeah. Thanks, Jan. Appreciate it. Yep. See you. Bye.

All right, here we go, Cindy. So welcome back everybody to another episode of Brewing Business with Brady. Are you struggling with how to implement a really great people strategy in your business that you know it's important, but you are struggling with actually implementing it and making sure that it rolls out correctly, that you don't want it to just be something that's talked about.

And it doesn't actually produce any tangible results for your business. Well, today's guest is going to make sure that when you are considering a people strategy, how to properly develop it, how to properly lead it, how to properly implement it and how HR can help you do that. Our guest today is Shanna Trenchard, a Trenchard Consulting. Trenchard Consulting is an outsourced HR consulting firm that provides fractional HR services to smaller midsize businesses that aren't in a

position to have a full time HR manager, but certainly could use that HR help, both from a compliance standpoint, but even more importantly, I shouldn't say even more importantly, but really from a people strategy standpoint, how are you ultimately managing and leading people in turn is so that you can have a business that succeeds and grows. And we are so excited to have Shannon on the on the on the show today. Shannon is a good friend. And I just really appreciate Shannon because she brings really

practical advice to the HR side of business that, you know, this is kind of a potentially elusive or difficult, you know, area for some business owners to wrap their mind around, but Shanna brings a really practical side to it. And, yeah, just a lot of, industry experience. so really excited to have her on the show today. Hope you enjoy. Thanks.