#70 Using Merch to Strategically Expand Your Brand and Sell More Courses with Barbara Hobart

What if the thing missing from your course launch isn't another email sequence but something your student can hold in their hands? 

In this episode, Shannon sits down with merch strategist Barbara Hobart, whose accidental invention of the world's first no-rewire decorative light switch cover (yes, really) launched a career that's since taken her from Hollywood writers' rooms to helping course creators, coaches, and membership owners turn branded products into real business tools.

Barbara breaks down why "merch" doesn't mean cheap pens and mugs from a trade show tote bag — it means a physical brand touchpoint that welcomes new clients, reinforces your method, rewards milestones, and keeps your name on someone's desk long after your last email got buried in their inbox. If you've ever wondered whether a $27 course or a $3,000 program actually needs merch, whether international shipping kills the idea before it starts, or how to ask for a student's mailing address without it feeling weird — this conversation covers it.

Whether your course is a standalone business or a small offer inside something bigger, this episode will change how you think about the physical side of your brand.

What You'll Learn in This Episode

• Why "merch" isn't a category of objects — it's a strategy, and how that shift changes what you create
• The real business problems merch solves that most course creators don't realize are merch problems
• Whether your price point should actually change what kind of merch you send (a $27 course vs. a $3,000 cohort program)
• How to ask a student or client for their mailing address without it feeling awkward
• Why physical products can outlast and out-remember a digital lead magnet or PDF

About Barbara Hobart

Barbara Hobart spent 25 years as a television writer and producer in Hollywood before an accident with a can of sponge paint led her to invent the world's first decorative light switch plate cover that required no rewiring — launching a product company in England before she even knew the term "injection molding." Today, Barbara helps course creators, coaches, and businesses of every budget turn branded merchandise into strategic brand assets, guiding clients from concept through sourcing, production, and delivery.

Connect with Barbara

• Website: barbarahobart.com
• Skool Community: Get Your Merch Made
• Complimentary 15-minute discovery call
• Barbara on LinkedIn

Get started on your own course creation journey or learn how to make your existing course even better at The "Your Best Course" Build Lab, my interactive and supportive online community.

To get started creating your own online course, check out my new freebie that will take you through the steps of choosing a topic that will be profitable for YOU.

To book a call to discuss your options and see if working together makes sense.  Click here. 😊

Transcript

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Shannon 0:03

Okay, I am so excited to welcome my friend Barbara Hobart to this show. Barbara is actually in both of my school communities. That's how we met. And she has a really interesting perspective on merch. She's gonna be sh- talking to us about it today, and how it might help your business and your course creation process as well. So Barbara, welcome to the show. So glad to have you here.

Barbara Hobart 1:38

I am so glad to be here. Thank you so much for asking me and inviting me

Shannon 1:42

For sure. Before we get started and I start to pick your brain on all things merch, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got to where you are today and in this really interesting niche that you found yourself?

Barbara Hobart 1:57

Okay. Gosh, thank you. I started my career as a television writer and producer in Hollywood, 25 years working in comedy. And when I was on a hiatus from a, a show I had just bought a new house, and I was It was in the '90s, and it was when everybody, when sponge painting was the thing. And I had sponge painted literally every vertical wall I could find. And I was in the bathroom, and I accidentally sponge painted over a light switch cover, and the plastic light switch cover, and I ruined it. And I was like, "Oh that was weird." And so I decided to I don't I just didn't wanna go to the hardware store and get a new one. So this was during the time when Martha Stewart, pre-prison, was really big. Just she was, like, decoupaging, everything like that. And I said, "Oh that's kinda cute." And so I started putting to fix the mistakes I had made, these pictures on light switch covers. And back then, decorative light switch plate covers were not a product or a thing. And people saw them, they're like, "Oh my God, this is so cute. I love them." And so I ended up this is Really, Google was very new, and it was like the internet was, like, 10 minutes old. So friends really liked them, and I started making them and I hired a bunch of stay-at-home moms. Stores started wanting them, little craft places, and then I wasn't really considering this a business until I went over to visit friends in London, and they ended up having redone their kitchen and they had these square light switch covers i- on their wall. I said, "Oh, let me make you a l- a decorative light switch plate cover." And my friend Jonathan goes, "You can't." I was what do you mean I can't?" And switches are molded into their plastic and then wired into the wall.

Shannon 3:48

Oh

Barbara Hobart 3:49

And ours, in North America, Canada, the US,

Shannon 3:52

Yeah.

Barbara Hobart 3:53

the wall. You just take the switch off.

Shannon 3:54

Yeah

Barbara Hobart 3:55

So I go back to Los Angeles, and now, mind you, I'm a professional comedy writer,

Shannon 4:00

Right

Barbara Hobart 4:00

and I was thinking, it was like 2:00 in the morning, I said, "I am inventing something for England." And I don't... And this, again, like the internet is five minutes old at this point, and I ended up inventing the first, I didn't even know what the word injection molding was. I didn't know what I was inventing, but I inv- I was going to invent something. And nine months later, I invented the first decorative light switch plate cover that required no rewiring, and I launched my company in England.

Shannon 4:33

Wow.

Barbara Hobart 4:34

Wa- so basically what happened was that's how I got my start in merch, and I was still writing. But one of the things that had happened was I started getting all these clients, and my first client was actually Laura Ashley,

Shannon 4:48

Oh, wow

Barbara Hobart 4:49

I know. I was, like, shocked 'cause I only remembered them, they had dresses. Anyway, they gave me all their wallpapers, and I put them on the plain light switch cover, and that was my first actual big client or So when I accidentally invented this product, today I actually help my clients create products on purpose.

Shannon 5:13

Awesome. I love it. And so let's talk about what merch is. So we're talking about merchandise, and when people hear this word, often they either think of the little table at the back of some music concert where you're buying, T-shirts and that kind of a thing, or they think of the pens, pencils, mugs that they get in the free bag at a trade show. So what is wrong with this idea of merch, and how are you turning that on its head?

Barbara Hobart 5:43

Okay, that's such a great question. You're right. People think about merch and they picture T-shirts and mugs and cheap giveaways. what I always tell my clients is that merch is not a category of objects. It's a physical brand touchpoint, and There's so many different things that merch can do. Can welcome a new client, it could teach a method, it could reward a milestone, it helps with retention, it generates referrals, and it also can be something that somebody can buy. And a mug or a T-shirt can work, but only when it really makes sense for the recipient and it has a purpose. And so a lot of clients that I work with, or businesses come to me, they often come to me, as most people do, they... with the question is, "What should we put our logo on?" And I always ask somebody first of all, "What do you want to accomplish with this product?" And a whole bunch of different products that can be created aside from merch or from tote bags or T-shirts or water bottles. And so it's really an opportunity not to make more stuff. It's really, the object is to create something that's really useful and that's gonna carry the brand into your customer's life

Shannon 7:13

I think that's so important 'cause it's not something that we want thrown away or shoved in a desk in a corner, but something that they're going to continue to use and have visible and at the forefront. So that makes a lot of sense.

Barbara Hobart 7:25

You wanna fit into their daily life. You wanna become a part of their routine

Shannon 7:30

Awesome. So what business problems can merch solve that owners might not realize are actually merch problems? And as I'm asking this question, I'm thinking, so our listeners, they're online course creators, but for the most part, usually their course is a, a small part or a supplement to a larger business, right? It's like, it's an arm of their larger business. For some people, it is this whole business. But t- looking at it from those kind of two different perspectives, how can merch help solve problems they may not even realize are merch problems?

Barbara Hobart 8:08

That's such a good question. Problems that look like marketing problems, but they're really not. They're really a memory or an experience or a connection problem. And some of the ways I help my clients utilize merch is, like for instance, people are... Let's say they're being forgotten. We are living right now in, in such a digital world, where people are just craving a physical connection. And, there's only so many just touching base emails you can send to somebody. Or, things that you really want a, a digital thank you, it's gonna... Some people's ideas are just too important to get lost and stuck in a PDF. And being forgotten, a physical product can remain visible after the post or after the meeting or the event or after a sales conversation. it's also a really good thing to help with onboarding. The right product can really reinforce why a new client has made the right decision to join your community or your organization. And can also help with low engagement. Doesn't love receiving a gift that's gonna really be helpful or useful to them? they can give gifts for thank yous or for referrals. And there's also another thing that I like to do, is when people have a method or a framework or they have difficulty explaining an idea, I've come up with something called framework decks. And these are basically decks of playing cards that you have 54 cards, and you could take and turn into... Your framework, you could take and turn into an actual deck that could be used as a training tool help with decision-making, and is something that can actually be used to help the client or the, the person that you're working with solve the problem that you've been hired to help them with

Shannon 10:16

Oh, interesting. So it can actually be a teaching tool or an implementation tool as well as a, like a branding merchandise type of product

Barbara Hobart 10:26

Absolutely. I try to come up with products that are gonna be very useful for the recipient, On brand for your brand. Like for instance, like I don't think a financial planner probably needs another baseball cap or a water bottle, but like a water bottle might be a great gift or a great item for like a fitness tra- trainer whose work, or a nutritionist working on hydration. I always try to find the right product for both the brand and the recipient

Shannon 10:58

I love that. Okay, you've started to touch on this already, but in terms of online course creation, I'm really interested in diving into the question more about where merch can fit into the customer journey beyond just sticking it in the, like we said, sticking it in the trade show bag and trying to attract new customers. W- can... Let's dive into kind of those different touch points that you've already started to allude to, and what might that look like? What they, might they be thinking of? And then is this tied to, or how is it tied to price point in terms of, like, how much people are charging for the course versus the kind of merch they're using? Because I can see some people thinking like my course is $27, so what kind of merch am I, thinking of?" Versus somebody who's charging 1,000 or 2,000 or $3,000 for their course. And is there relationship there as well? So can we dive into both of those things at the same time?

Barbara Hobart 11:56

Absolutely. The first part I was gonna say is, before the sale you can always give people samples or conversation starters or event products, or some type of a, a product or a tool that's gonna really demonstrate your method of thinking. And at the point of sale, like the welcome thank you, a product that's gonna reinforce the decision or marks the beginning of the relationship. Milestones, people are always, achieving different milestones in their journey, and so rewards for completion or special achievements or renewals or anniversaries, those are always really appreciated, and it's something that, people are going to be really proud of. When you accomplish something and you get a really nice reward, that's gonna be a reminder that's gonna stick with you.

Shannon 12:46

Yeah

Barbara Hobart 12:47

And also, one of the things is as a revenue stream, I always ask my clients, "Is this something that, somebody would buy themselves without your logo?" Many of my clients end up actually selling and retailing th- their items for aside from just gifts

Shannon 13:05

Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. So if you're doing if you do have a course that's at a lower price point, but you have developed this brand and business that people like to be affiliated with, then selling merch might be more the avenue you go, versus if you're doing like a cohort-based higher ticket type program, then that kind of... I, I've seen people do that welcome packages. Everybody's starting on November 15th, and they get this welcome package in the mail. That's a big selling point sometimes. I know people who just want that welcome package because we love this kind of Christmas feeling of that goes along with it, right?

Barbara Hobart 13:45

unboxing experience. I

Shannon 13:47

Yeah.

Barbara Hobart 13:47

the thing is, like, when, like, when I think of, Hollywood or, you think of the swag bag, and that is considered very high-end.

Shannon 13:54

Yeah

Barbara Hobart 13:55

Sometimes swag, word swag, has a negative connotation. It Perceived as, cheap pens or cheap... something cheap. And you don't wanna ever have your brand feel cheap and things like that. 'Cause a lot of people will come to me and say, "How... What's the cheapest thing I can get for, $500?" And I'm going, "Do you really want people to perceive your brand as cheap?" And obviously the answer is always no, but no matter what your budget is are not going to give an executive that you have a $150,000, month working relationship doing something that i- is somebody that's got a $27 product.

Shannon 14:35

Right.

Barbara Hobart 14:35

every... And you're not gonna give those two people the same gifts.

Shannon 14:39

Right

Barbara Hobart 14:39

This is really one of the only times that a marketing expense becomes a brand asset. And I work with clients of all budgets, so if somebody, does not have a huge budget, that does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that they cannot send out really fabulous welcome gifts that are tied to their brand or their workshop or their course or their community.

Shannon 15:08

Yeah

Barbara Hobart 15:08

it could be something done in a kit with a very specific type of a notebook or the framework decks, the card decks. And actually, those are the most specific thing at... somebody can possibly create, and those actually cost less than a T-shirt and a baseball cap.

Shannon 15:26

Interesting. Yeah, and I loved what you said too as referral, thank you for the referral. What a... real estate agents always do that, and there's a reason that they do it, but it doesn't mean it can't be done in the online space as well. When I first started in the online space my first few one-on-one clients that I had, when they finally launched their course and they pressed publish, I sent them flowers because I'm in Canada, and they were the US, in the US, and I didn't know what else to do because I was like, "What can I get to them?" But had I had something like this set up, this would've been a much better way of congratulating them and thanking them for working with me, and continuing that relationship much longer than the week that the flowers probably lasted. And funny story about that is a client of mine, she was coming back on vacation, so I timed it for when she was gonna be back for vacation, not knowing that she was leaving a few days later for a business trip. So she didn't even get to enjoy the flowers. So the there's just so many opportunities for this that I can see as being really beneficial in a number of different ways

Barbara Hobart 16:37

Absolutely. And one of the things that's really interesting, you mentioned real estate. Everybody needs a closing gift, but real estate agents especially, and one of the things is not just about "Here's a bottle of wine. Have a..." But they're thinking about the things that the h- new homeowner is going to need in their new home,

Shannon 16:54

Yeah

Barbara Hobart 16:55

have a real estate kit for the first night or the first week. And for instance, l- things that you know they're gonna need, whether they're not unpacked or they're gonna need, w- from, down from tape measures to cutting boards. Those things are going to be, whether it's in that toolbox or on that kitchen counter, for Thing about merch is it's not rented attention. It's not an ad that scrolls by that's gone in 30 seconds.

Shannon 17:18

Yeah

Barbara Hobart 17:19

that's living on their desk or in their home or in their car or taking with them to the gym

Shannon 17:25

You're right. Yeah. It's interesting because w- we spend a lot on marketing especially more people nowadays with things like Facebook, Meta ads, and this money that we're just dumping and hoping and praying, as opposed to something physical that you know is actually get- going to get into the hands of someone. And like you said, if done right, be a part of their daily life and visible for them for years to come.

Barbara Hobart 17:52

'Cause one of the things I like to say to my clients is it, and it's the junk drawer test. We, I don't want... I say, "I build brands. I don't wanna build landfill."

Shannon 18:02

Yeah, that exactly

Barbara Hobart 18:04

Exactly. And so the thing is, so when we create a product, w- it's... I basically call this strategic swag because there's a strategy behind it. It's what does this product, what's the job it needs to do? Why are you giving it? And the thing is too, is I love what you said, the flowers are such a nice thing, and then the gesture was remembered. But for instance, think about at the holidays, everybody sends these gift baskets. First of all, the food, y- it's arriving with 19 other food baskets, but after the food is gone, there's nothing left.

Shannon 18:37

Yeah

Barbara Hobart 18:38

try not to do that. So if you are gonna give food, you give your own branded food, There's something that lasts long after the basket is has been devoured

Shannon 18:48

Like a utensil that's gonna be in the drawer and used on a daily basis kind of a thing. Yeah, great idea. So walk us through your process, because there's so much obvious strategy behind what you do and how you do it. So how do you take somebody from a rough idea to the right product sourcing, production, and delivery? Like, what's your process and what are you doing with your clients?

Barbara Hobart 19:12

Okay. The, first thing is we, clarify the goal, what is this product designed for? What should this product help your business accomplish? then I try to understand the audience in the moment, and who's receiving it, why are they receiving it, and what's happening at that moment in the relationship. And then what I do is I help you develop the product direction, and I figure out what... we figure out together what products or custom ideas are gonna align with your goal, your audience brand, your budget, and then we look at the quantity. And then I look at the practical details, the minimums, the timing, the decoration method, the packaging, the sourcing, and I handle all of it. And I also because I act, I only, not only source it for my clients, I also handle everything throughout production through delivery, and I work with the manufacturers and the suppliers rather than expecting you to stop your busy workday and and deal with that type of a thing. Then what I do is I'll get your logo or your design or whatever it is that you want, and then I create the mock-ups, and I give it to the client for their approval, and then I handle all of the production, and then I have it delivered, and that's it. And honestly, sometimes the hardest part is actually sometimes for the client deciding what it is that they want. S- most of the time, the manufacturing, depend on the quantity and where it's made, it could take about a week

Shannon 20:53

Mm-hmm. Okay. So if someone wanted to dip their toe in this area, but, like, that's an amazing service that you offer, and I think a lot of people would be like, "I'm in. Take this off my plate. Great idea, but I don't wanna do it." If somebody wants to dip their toe in though, and they're not qui- quite ready to go full board with this, and they want to do more of the process themselves what would you suggest for that type of person?

Barbara Hobart 21:20

I would have them look at the same questions. Why are they giving it? Who is it for? What's my budget? know a- and how is it gonna be delivered to them? And one of the things that, you know, no matter if I help them get it made or if they wanna go source it themselves, whatever it's really, what is the reason behind this product? Is it the timing? The welcome, the thank you, the referral, onboarding. Is it a holiday? Is it to stay top of mind? There's the why... W- what the, what is the outcome that you want the product, from when the, the, when the client gets the the product? And from there, if somebody wants to get it sourced, obviously the internet is a great place. You can find, any number of suppliers. If you have to vet them yourselves and, you have to deal with the mock-ups and all the stuff yourself, but it's very easy for somebody to, go out and source it themselves if that's what they wanna do. The one thing, however, lot of people do come to me with, which actually somebody just came to me the other day, and they said we lo- you know, wanna do print on demand." And I said, "There's nothing wrong with print on demand." And I also create print on demand stores custom for my clients, so they don't Put a logo on a mock-up on a product. But one of the things very often is because of the volume that many print on demand places have, they do not have the kinds of products.

Shannon 22:55

Mm-hmm.

Barbara Hobart 22:55

know, they have drinkware and totes and mugs and T-shirts and baseball caps, and those are great items, but there is so much more that somebody could do. You can create your own spices or if you're in the food industry, or you can create your meal prep and meal planning and your own lunch boxes. There's... I do custom printed mints. I do custom printed Swedish dish cloths for eco-friendly brands. There are so many products that are gonna be in alignment with what it is that you do that print on demand just, they just don't have. So-

Shannon 23:31

That's a good point. That's a really good point. 'Cause yeah, and I'm gonna ask you some technical questions here, 'cause I can hear my clients and my students asking these questions, so I'm gonna ask them. So first of all, question is, what's the difference between print on demand and drop shift shipping, drop shipping? Is there a difference between the two? Is it the same thing?

Barbara Hobart 23:50

Print on demand i- in the print on demand world there's a couple of things that go into this. Actually I had a whole th- little course on that at one point. It's great because you don't have to lay out any cash. The order is printed, and then it's drop shipped to y- the recipient.

Shannon 24:07

Okay

Barbara Hobart 24:08

The margins are horrible if you ever wanna, wanna sell it because a lot of people, 'cause merch is like great for walk... You're out of... You have your logo on a tote bag, and it's walking around the city. That's free advertising for you. Margins are not great. Also, but they're doing all the work. They're buying the product, they're doing the printing, they're doing the shipping for you, whatever. And they drop ship it directly. Now, a lot of my clients, and here they don't know this, but one of the easy ways to handle this is like they don't wanna turn their dining room table into a mailing facility, To do that? So one of the things that I suggest getting a fulfillment center and you send all the stuff... you could use Amazon to do it, but the fees are ridiculous, and don't get me started on that. But you could get like a fulfillment center, and you send the product. They'll, let's say, you order 100 decks or 100 baseball or whatever your order, 100 lunchboxes, it goes to the warehouse that you- you've chosen. And what they do is they do such a volume of shipping that they're also, their postage rates are so low, and they pass that on. And so in other words, an order comes in, or you just wanna send everybody on your email list or your new member list your new decks. And what they do is they package it up for you. They put it in the envelope. They label it. They ship it. They put the postage on, and it's for a, a fee. And it's usually a couple of bucks, it's so much m- worth more your time than you're sitting there trying to like package, label, and then sh- schlep over to the post office

Shannon 25:42

Yeah, for sure. And that was my second question, because I know I have clients who have dealt with product fulfillment before. They have physical products could be fabric or sewing bundles or things like that, and they've moved away from that because they have learned exactly what you're saying, which is there is a lot more time and energy and effort into shipping physical products. So usually what they're saying to me is like, "I just wanna do digital things. I just wanna have prizes and e- rewards and whatever th- be digital." So talk to us about why there's actually value in having a physical m- something.

Barbara Hobart 26:20

Absolutely. Here's the thing is in this digital world, again, when you send somebody that PDF or that lead magnet with all your information, they're gonna open it once, and they're never gonna probably open it again, and it's gonna live in their inbox or in their trash bin inbox forever. If you have a really good physical product, it's going to land on their desk, or they're going to wear it, or they're going to take it to the gym, or they're gonna carry it, in th- their new laptop bag. They're gonna actually use it, and it's gonna be integrated and is a part of their life. And if shipping is the thing that's stopping people, it's the easiest part of this is to sell that is that you send it to a fulfillment center. And one of the things that I always tell my clients is, when I lived on the... When I actually invented the light switch cover, when I lived on the West Coast, I had a mailing facility in Los Angeles, and it was great. Problem was is if I have clients in, on the East Coast, that's a five-day ship, A- across the country. So one of the things that I suggest is, And I have a list of fulfillment people that I've worked with many times that I like and trust, I always suggest finding a warehouse or a fulfillment center in the Midwest, right in the middle of the country, so if you're shipping east or west, it's two to three-day ship. You're not having to do the five-day UPS ship or do the overnight that's really expensive. so what the great thing is that they store your product for a fee. It's usually 15 bucks a pallet. It's not expensive. And what they do is they'll pick and pack your order, and they'll do it to your specifications.

Shannon 27:58

Okay

Barbara Hobart 27:59

words, let's say you have products that you've s- had, you've sourced yourself or I've sourced, and they can also kit it. So in other words, if it does not already come assembled let's say you have an onboarding, kit and you've ordered, a keychain and a framework deck and a mug and a y- whatever, they can put all of that together for you so you're not obviously doing that and pack it up really nice and securely. They have all the boxes. They have the labels. They have everything ready to go. They stick the postage on it, which is gonna be less than what you would spend because they have volume discounts, and it goes to your client,

Shannon 28:35

Awesome.

Barbara Hobart 28:35

touch it

Shannon 28:36

I think that's really what people are looking for because we're so overworked already with being the solopreneur you know that if we're gonna add another thing, it really has to be i- in the easiest way possible so that all of that makes a lot of sense.

Barbara Hobart 28:52

And if everybody is giving a digital product, that's great, and there's nothing wrong with digital products. they're not that memorable, and they get lost. They don't get opened. But the thing is, if everybody is doing that, why would you wanna do what everybody's doing? Right now, we- everybody is using the same tools. They're using the same AI. They're using the same prompts. They're using the same Canva templates. So if you really wanna build your brand in a way that's gonna make you stand out, it's really time to utilize something that has worked... when you think about it, are what sell. Everything you buy is a product.

Shannon Boyer 29:29

Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And so I like to get into the weeds about certain things, so I have two more questions for you. The first is, so being in the digital space, it is an international space, and I think one of the things that holds people back a little bit from physical products is the fact that what happens if somebody in my community lives in da, da, da, da, da country and what do I do? do I have to exclude them from this? Do I... Like, do you have advice? Have you found a solution to that problem yet?

Barbara Hobart 30:04

I have. It depends on where To, there's a couple of ways to go about this and this is basically another, an entire other podcast and that we could

Shannon 30:16

I'm sure.

Barbara Hobart 30:17

do. There's a couple of ways around this because I just had done a project for a very well-known schooler Was, and have a huge international, base. It's not, it's everywhere. And shipping is expensive, especially now. But a lot of the thing that you can do, again, depending on if it's just a welcome gift, it depends on also where it's manufactured. I manufacture 99.999% of my stuff in the US.

Shannon 30:53

Oh, interesting

Barbara Hobart 30:54

yeah, and it's great, and that's why it usually takes me seven days. And I also do deal with overseas manufacturers, I usually have very low minimums on most things anyway. I'm not talking, you don't have to order a container load. It's like order 100, like order 100 of something. You can order 25 of something. Are not, people like get scared thinking, "Oh my God, I've got to order, you know, a container load and, and fill

Shannon 31:18

Yeah.

Barbara Hobart 31:19

Well, You

Shannon 31:19

Yeah.

Barbara Hobart 31:19

that.

Shannon 31:20

Good

Barbara Hobart 31:20

So one of the things is you have to really weigh the cost of a number of different things. What is your budget? much is the shipping gonna cost? Now, if it's a small item, like for instance like the cute little mints or the or the decks of cards, this is not going to be expensive to send. It's really not. Now, if you're talking about something like a huge box that weighs, And I don't know, like my clients that are gonna do that, I, I've had a couple of lunch boxes. again it shouldn't be something that is that expensive 'cause it also goes by dimensional weight and things

Shannon 31:58

Hmm

Barbara Hobart 31:59

So what I would do at that point is I would do the same thing I would do here, and that's get a fulfillment center in the

Shannon 32:06

In Europe

Barbara Hobart 32:07

or the UK. And I, when I had my company in England, my, I had a fab... And I would still recommend them. They're fabulous. I had a warehouse in Essex. And so in other words, you send half your stuff there and half your stuff here, and that way you have the globe covered.

Shannon 32:25

Mm-hmm.

Barbara Hobart 32:26

the thing is you're, I look at people that are so willing to spend thousands of dollars on ads, They really cannot measure their their return on investment.

Shannon 32:38

Yeah

Barbara Hobart 32:38

And sometimes when you look at, like what it costs for you to acquire one client from an ad people often don't think about what do I do with the clients that I wanna keep and retain? And I wanna treat them?" They're so worried about getting a client, when they get them, they're like, "Okay, great. They're there." And now they're... And it's like this, on this crazy hamster wheel

Shannon 32:59

Yeah, absolutely. That's such a great point. Um, I'm smiling 'cause I, I used to live in Essex. Uh, my very first year of tea- yeah, My very first year of teaching I taught in Essex, so I'm just, I'm kind of giggling about that one. But

Barbara Hobart 33:11

I

Shannon 33:11

okay. Yeah. So this is my last question, and this is probably just a me thing. But one of the things that stopped me personally from giving merch is that I always feel, I have this hang-up that I feel like it should be a surprise. Like it should just show up at their door and they don't know what, that it's coming. And then I get all in my head about do I have the right address? Is their Stripe address their current address? And, you know, like, where do I get their address from? And I don't wanna ask them for their address 'cause it's, then it's kind of weird and uncomfortable. Like, "I wanna send you something. Can you give me your address?" And I'm seeing Barbara's giving me a funny look right now, and it's because I know this is all weird stuff in my head. So talk me through this part of, w- without you giving away all your secrets, talk me through this hang-up that I have.

Barbara Hobart 34:05

I I asked them for their address

Shannon 34:10

Okay

Barbara Hobart 34:10

your address for we need your address." And now it's not like I'm gonna go stalk you. I've

Shannon 34:15

Yeah

Barbara Hobart 34:15

anybody not give me their address. I just basically, I'm gonna say, we're putting something together." A- and even if... Let's just say that they know something's coming. They don't know what's coming So it's, I just basically say, I'm putting together something, can I have your mailing address?" And they're

Shannon 34:32

Hmm. Yeah. Okay.

Barbara Hobart 34:34

I've been

Shannon 34:35

It's just a me thing.

Barbara Hobart 34:36

ever said no

Shannon 34:37

Yeah. That's great to know. It's a me thing. I'm sure nobody else has the same issue.

Barbara Hobart 34:42

No, I, it's not a you thing. But it, and it is weird, like I guess because we are in a digital world,

Shannon 34:48

think that's it

Barbara Hobart 34:49

y- and we're not like connected that way. But like for instance, one of the things is you don't inv- do you invoice?

Shannon 34:56

Mm-mm.

Barbara Hobart 34:57

when I invoice I have to have their address

Shannon 34:59

Yeah. No, I don't. No, I don't 'cause everything's done behind the scenes through Stripe, and actually on school I don't even think I have access to... Like, I know when I use Stripe myself I would have that information, but I don't even think doing things through school because they're merchant of record that you would. So you would have to ask. You would have to wa- have a way of collect- connect- collecting

Barbara Hobart 35:20

they know you and they are, say, "We're putting together something really fun for our members. What's your address?" And they're like, "Okay, here."

Shannon 35:26

Yeah

Barbara Hobart 35:27

know and or if you are sending an onboarding kit or something like that sometimes in a way let's say it's a thank you for a referral, but you don't wanna say, "I wanna thank, send you something for referring." When everybody comes into your community, you could say, "Oh my God," like if you have like, an onboarding, say, you know, "We, we have something for our new members. What's your address?" They're not gonna think about it until the next 13 seconds, nor are they gonna be waiting at the mailbox

Shannon 35:50

Yeah, it's a really good point. And actually you know, I always talk about getting people on as annual subscribers. If you do have a membership, you really want people on as annual subscribers as opposed to monthly subscribers. So that's even a selling, could be a selling point that people love getting physical things. Like, like they love gifts, right? So I've had it s- you know, people will offer a physical thing for only annual subscribers, and of course, then getting their address is just gonna be a natural part of that. So okay, that's great ad- that's great advice. To wrap up, what advice would you give to someone who is just getting started with merch, but they have absolutely no idea what the first steps are that they should take?

Barbara Hobart 36:34

I would probably say, "Are you really tired of doing the same things that are not working? Doing the same things that everybody else is doing?" And a really affordable and easy way to stand out, and especially for starting out. Because if you think about it, every single company that's big today, they weren't big when they started out. How did they build their name? It through physical product, through starting out small. And if you think about, like, all the ads that Starbucks ran, you can't think about that because they didn't. Do you know what did their advertising? Their logo on that cup.

Shannon 37:13

Yeah, absolutely

Barbara Hobart 37:14

know, and so the thing is when people are starting out, they go I can't, I'm just starting out." That's exactly time that you need to be thinking about marketing and standing out in a way to build your brand. Because somebody used to say To me, There was a client that I'm thinking of. She goes it's in my five-year plan." And I was thinking, "So you wanna spend your time doing what for five years?" So start now. Thing is, start small. And small does not mean cheap

Shannon 37:48

Good point. I love it. Yeah, why wait to build your brand? Why wait to build your audience and expand your visibility when you already have it? it's almost like, "I'm gonna wait till everybody knows about me to expand my visibility."

Barbara Hobart 38:04

And that's how people get talk- Like, for instance I have these mints that I used to do and you could print actually on the mint. And people, I give it to them, and like, you know, it was your logo on it. I, I, I'm not gonna say it on the podcast because child might be in the room, but I had a very funny name of a company. I know you know what's coming. Yeah.

Shannon 38:24

Yeah

Barbara Hobart 38:24

And I had a funny name of a company. People... That would get people starting to talk. They're like, "Oh my God, I need a

Shannon 38:29

Yeah. Yeah

Barbara Hobart 38:30

And the thing is, it's something that starts conversations. They're going, "Oh my God, where did you get that?

Shannon 38:37

Right.

Barbara Hobart 38:37

One." That's how that starts, whether you're a little brand or you're a big brand. And the thing is, right now everybody is fighting for that, 30, that three seconds before the swipe, and it's just such an, so much more of an easy way to connect in a world is digital and it doesn't have to be

Shannon 39:00

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for being here today. So many important and valuable tips. You obviously know what you're talking about, that goes without saying, and I can already hear the wheels turning for the listeners about how they might be interested in this and what they might do with it. So if somebody wants to learn more from you or even engage in your services, where should they go and what should they do?

Barbara Hobart 39:27

There's two places. You can go to my website barbarahobart.com, I have a school community, and it's called Get Your Merch Made

Shannon 39:40

Awesome. Two amazing places to go, and Barbara is building her Skool community and expanding on it, so you wanna get in there now, with my help. Absolutely. Thank you so much for being here today, Barbara, uh, and I can't wait to see what everybody builds with this information.