Redefining Us

9: Breaking Myths About Domestic Violence and Finding Support with Sybil Cummin

• Stephanie Konter-O'Hara • Season 1 • Episode 9

Share episode

Abuse can look many different ways, both overt and not. Our guest, Sybil Cummin, MA, LPC, ACS, shares her evolution working as a play therapist with children in contentious divorces to uncovering the often-overlooked dynamics of abuse dismissed by the systems at play. Our conversation lays bare the realities of narcissistic abuse, domestic violence, and the systemic gaps within family courts.

Sybil highlights the critical role of community, connection, and safety planning in the journey toward healing for anyone who's endured any amount of harm. We talk about how abuse can look many different ways and break the stereotypes that are most often portrayed. We delve into the struggles survivors endure—recognizing coercive control, overcoming post-separation abuse, and reclaiming a sense of self.  

If you know someone who's suffering from abuse, or that's you yourself, or if you're a professional who stands survivors, this episode offers clarity, practical guidance, and a steadfast reminder: recovery is possible, and no one walks this path alone.

Connect with Sybil:
https://www.risingbeyondpc.com
https://instagram.com/risingbeyondpc
https://www.risingbeyondpc.com/podcasts

About Sybil: Sybil is a Licensed Professional Counselor who has specialized in working with victims and survivors of narcissistic abuse and domestic violence for the last decade, including the child victims in these families. She owns a small group therapy practice in Colorado and after witnessing the constant ethical issues survivors experience in the family court system trying to protect their children she created Rising Beyond Power and Control (often referred to as The Rising Beyond Community)  to help close the gaps in support for this population.  Sybil hosts The Rising Beyond Podcast and is active in legislative changes in Colorado for family court reform.

Learn more about the Redefining Us Monthly Community - https://wellmindedcounseling.com/redefining-us-community



Please leave us a review or rating! These help get the show out to more women like you wanting to have these conversations.

Would you like to chat more about this episode's topic? I would love to continue our conversation over on Instagram! @wellmindedcounseling

I wrote a book! Becoming Mommy: Aligning with yourself and finding your voice during pregnancy and motherhood, available at all major retailers - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DZT9P3RB?ref=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_KFT90ZBDS48FDGG6DH5X&ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_KFT90ZBDS48FDGG6DH5X&social_share=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_KFT90ZBDS48FDGG6DH5X&bestFormat=true

Where to find more from Redefining Us:
Website: wellmindedcounseling.com/redefining-us-pod
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/wellmindedcounseling
Instagram: @wellmindedcounseling

If you want to support the show so we can continue sharing this content with others like you, you may do so here at, Buy Me A Coffee. From the bottom of our hearts, thank you!

SPEAKER_01:

What I've really seen, this is why I started the Rising Beyond community, is that, you know, in my therapy practice, I would have really similar cases. And the cases in which the survivor had a pretty strong, healthy support system versus the person who had almost identical case, very similar abuse, the ones that do not have safe people in their world, they don't have a support network, the length of time it takes them to heal is astronomically longer. Years later, longer. And I was seeing this over and over. And so that importance of healing within connection with others, healing in a community was so apparent because it was like, well, what's wrong with this person? They're not healing. Is it me? Is the therapist? Is it them? And no, it's none of the above. It was the lack of connections with others. And for survivors, that is the scariest thing to do is to connect with others.

SPEAKER_02:

This is Redefining Us, and I'm your host, Stephanie Contrera, licensed professional counselor. And I'm so glad that you joined us today so we can dive into what it means to be a woman in today's society, figuring out how we balance everything, how we grow, how we be more authentically us and figuring out who we are through the transitions of life, whether that be motherhood, success, relationships, and all things that have happened in women's lives, because it's definitely not a linear journey. And I think by talking about it and normalizing it and validating, we can all rise together and be the women that we were meant to be. So keep tuning in. And I am so excited about joining the conversation and being in your ears each week. Let's get into it. Welcome back to Redefining Us. I'm your host, Stephanie Controhera, licensed professional counselor. And today I have with me Sybil Cummins, who specializes in working with survivors and their children from narcissistic abuse. So thank you so much for joining us. And yeah, welcome. Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah,

SPEAKER_02:

so let's just dive in. What kind of inspires you to do this work and why are you so passionate about continuing working with this population?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so I started from a different way than a lot of the advocates and therapists that work in this field of narcissistic abuse and domestic violence and that I'm not a survivor of. And so I started at it from... working with the kids. And I would see these family dynamics, and they were always deemed, air quotes, high conflict divorce families. And what I really saw was there was abuse in these families. And there was a very specific type of abuse. One of the partners would have traits of narcissism. So the reason I became passionate about it is because that I was noticing specifically that our family court system was not keeping kids safe. And they didn't actually seem to care that they're not keeping kids safe. And that is ridiculous, right? I didn't understand it. I couldn't understand that. And so if I don't understand something, I just dive in. I just go down the rabbit hole trying to figure things out. And so I really saw the dynamics within our larger systems that were happening. how protective parents, and I work mostly with moms. I do work with some males in our practice, but in a community that I run, it's specifically for women. And I just could not wrap my head around how horrible these protective moms are treated. And so in order to help the kiddos, I also need to help the protective parents in these situations. And so that's really how I got involved is to help families be safe in a system where they're not gonna get the support that they need. Yeah, I

SPEAKER_02:

imagine it's really both devastating and raging when you consider that the court system doesn't do a lot to protect the families in these cases.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and there's this belief, right? That, okay, I'm gonna leave this relationship and it's all gonna be better And I'm going to be safer. And there are these people in place to help me and my child. And a lot of the people that are put in place to do that, that's actually not their role. That's supposed to be their role. And that's not what happens. So

SPEAKER_02:

it's almost like this false sense of security that a lot of maybe women enter into when they decide to leave the relationship. And it turns out that it's maybe just more of the same. It sounds like.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's like. The abuse looks different because maybe their partner doesn't have access to them in the hall. Maybe they've left. But they will use these other methods and other ways in the system to continue to abuse. And what's sad is so many of the women and men that I've worked with actually don't even know that they are being abused. Because the belief that is out there, the myths that are out there is that domestic violence and abuse is hitting. or throwing things or choking, that is domestic violence. And that's actually not all of domestic violence. And so they don't even understand a lot of times that they are being abused because it is the more coercive control type behaviors that are happening.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I know a lot of times in my practice when I'm giving supervision to other clients, or not other clients, other supervisees who work with more of this population, Even just identifying that they're being abused can be really shocking to the client that you're working with. It's like, what do you know? They're not hitting me or no, they're not doing this. But yeah, if they're controlling your money, controlling the way that you parent, controlling when you leave the house or, you know, have an opinion about literally everything that you do and try to convince you to do something different or to do it the way that they want to do it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And isolation is probably one of the most common and detrimental tactics of an abuser. And so, yeah, they don't understand they've been abused because it doesn't fit the stereotype of abuse and they don't fit the stereotype of a victim. Right. And this is geographic differences. But here in Colorado, I would say the stereotypical victim of domestic violence is a A low income, low education woman, you know, many children, blue collar husband comes home, he drinks a beer and he beats her. And that is not even remotely close. Like, can that happen? Yes, sure. But that's not what it looks like. Unfortunately, narcissistic abuse, domestic violence, they don't discriminate. So it doesn't matter how much money you earn, how much education you have, where you live. If you have children or don't have children, it is possible.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think that's really important for people to be aware of is that it could happen at any socioeconomic status or any demographic. It doesn't look just one way.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. And so when they first a lot of times get that understanding or it's written on paper or a therapist suggests it or something like that, it is shocking. A lot of them don't want to believe that because they have these ideas about what that means about them. And it actually means nothing about you. It means that you chose someone who chose to abuse you. That's what it means. And so taking away some of that shame and that guilt and the false responsibility that they put on you Yeah,

SPEAKER_02:

absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. And then they've been told that it's all their fault in different ways, either through gaslighting or overt behaviors or statements. And so over time, you start to believe it. If you do have a history in your family of origin, and it doesn't have to be abuse in your family of origin, but there's a history of people pleasing to stay safe, taking ownership of things that are not yours, you're more likely to accept that responsibility for it. And then, yeah, when you have kiddos, all you want to do is you want to keep them safe and take care of them. And you're put in a position potentially where they're not safe.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah,

SPEAKER_02:

yeah. So I know you do a lot of work with the survivors, both in the court system as well as in the therapy office. I'm curious, does your work primarily focus on identification and ways to stay safe? Or what other things are you working on with these people?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so there's just a constant assessment of safety throughout the whole process because unfortunately, harm can come, physical harm can come at any time. And I don't ever say that to scare people. And it's just something to be really aware of that they may have never been physical with you before and it can happen. So yes, I work with, you know, on that safety piece and keeping people safe. And the more fun part, of my job is working with survivors to learn how to work in that world because there is if you share children with your abuser you nine times out of ten are going to have to have contact with them and so how do you live with that and keep that contact and stay healthy and mentally healthy at the same time that's really difficult so it is it's like that healing from the trauma relearning how to trust yourself relearning how to connect with other people especially if there's that isolation you have no trust in your you know trust detector because you trusted this person who said they were your soulmate right and you truly believed it you you did believe it and you love this person you loved this person and to learn that that was a scam and they didn't Yeah. And so those are the much more fun things to work on than safety and family court. But we do them in tandem because you can't really do one without the other.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I'm kind of getting the sense that even if someone's in the midst of the trauma, it might be harder to work on that. But hopefully when things stabilize even a small percentage, some of that empowerment, redefining who they are outside of the relationship, how they can reconnect with their community is still important to be doing at the same time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And what I've really seen, this is why I started the Rising Beyond Community, is that, you know, in my prep, this is my therapy practice, I would have really similar cases. And the cases in which the person, the survivor had a pretty strong, healthy support system, versus the person who had almost identical case, right? Very similar abuse. The ones that do not have safe people in their world, they don't have a support network, the length of time it takes them to heal is astronomically longer. And so years longer. And so I was seeing this over and over again. And so that importance of healing within connection with others, healing in a community was so apparent because it was like, well, what's wrong with this person? They're not healing. Is it me? Is the therapist? Is it them? And no, it's none of the above. It was the lack of connections with others. And so that piece of it is really important. And for survivors, that is the scariest thing to do is to connect with others.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, yeah, it takes a certain level of vulnerability, I imagine, after having, again, going back to that trust piece, like being betrayed, trying to open themselves up again to a community is probably very scary.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. And most of the time they've tried to reach out to people and the responses have been harmful. And so they've tried to maybe share with a friend about the crazy making stuff That's been going on in their relationship. And the response is, wow, I can't even believe that. He's always been so nice.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, dismissive.

SPEAKER_01:

So the response is like, no, actually, see, you're still the crazy one. Nope, we don't believe you. And so there's this sense of I can't reach out to anybody because I won't be believed. Law enforcement doesn't believe if there is not a bruise on you. there's not a scratch law enforcement's not really that helpful and doesn't believe in family court it's he said she said they believe that it's always two-party conflict when it's not and so yeah that is so scary to trust someone with your story and know that they will hold it and they will believe you and they're not going to shame you for what you've been through that's really scary yeah Well,

SPEAKER_02:

narcissists or people who have narcissistic traits tend to be really good at masking and having a lot of charisma and being one way in front of others and another way behind closed doors.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep. Yeah. And so it is crazy making because everyone around them sees, you know, the amazing, caring dad or partner. And it's all done on purpose. Like it's willful, which is super gross to think about that all the things that they've done is not because of childhood trauma. There's an element of that, but it's not the reason. It's not because they're an alcoholic. It's not these reasons. It is willful. It is done on purpose to get their needs met.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. It's interesting that you mentioned the community aspect. I feel like that's been a golden thread of a lot of the things that I've been talking to people about and the need for connection and the need for community and how healing that can be surrounded by other people who understand what you're going through and are maybe in either similar places than you or maybe just a little bit further along and learning from them and how they can learn from you and that mutual benefit that can come from being connected to others.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And if you've been told that you have no worth and then you're able to help someone in a similar situation, you can see like, oh my gosh, that is not true. I am worth something. And rebuilding that self-worth and that sense of self, it takes a long time. It's not this magic like, oh, I did this and now I know I'm amazing and I know that I have all this worth, but it can be so helpful. And to have, I think one of the other reasons that community is so important for this population specifically, but most almost all populations, right? Where there's some sort of harm or hurt is that the person that was around you before is only mirroring back to you how much you suck. Nothing good about yourself. And so then you're around these other people who are mirroring back your amazing qualities so that you can see them because you can't see them. There's that phrase, you can't see the label when you're inside the bottle or something of that nature. And so having these other people mirror these things back to you so you can see, oh, wow, I am a good person. I have worth. I am smart. I am kind. I am empathic. When you see yourself through the eyes of someone else, it can be really healing.

SPEAKER_03:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And just this understanding that it's okay to have the emotions that you do, because I imagine there's a lot of emotions that are probably had in these circles of women or this community of women. And rather than getting that feedback from maybe people who don't understand or potentially have only seen one side of their partner to be like, oh, I felt the same way with my partner or Yeah, I get where you're coming from and it changes that script of you're the crazy one to like, no, this is what's happening and make it feel more less crazy making and more truthful.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it gives you the sense of peace that you aren't the only one, right? It removes some of that shame that there's something wrong with you, that you're crazy. And then it's interesting when I do live events or support groupie type stuff and someone's talking and every head is nodding, right? And it's like, yep, yep, I felt that. I've experienced that. It is, it's so validating. It's like, okay, I am not crazy. This is what they do. There's actually a way out of this, right? It gives people hope.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I will say as long as the people around you are set up a specific way and there's a safe container, because sometimes you can get around other people where you're only sharing the horror stories, which at times can be really helpful to hear, hey, you're not crazy. And it can also bring you into this pit of despair, too, if it's only the horror stories.

SPEAKER_02:

That and I think another danger that sometimes can... important for people to be aware of is comparing one person's story to your own. Like, oh, my story is not as bad or, oh, my God, my story is so much worse. Like, I'm so sick or this situation was so traumatic or, yeah, this spectrum of people who show up in communities, they can have potentially this pitfall of comparing their story to others. And so I think that's also important. the importance of having a safe container to explore these things in. Yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

yeah. And I 100% agree because if you have a group of, you know, 10 survivors who some have had physical abuse and sexual abuse, some have children, some don't have children, right? All of their differences. And so it's like, oh, well, my story is not as bad because I don't have children with this person. My story is not as bad because I was not physically assaulted, right? My story is not as bad because I have a job and I can take care of myself while they have no money and their ex took all the money. So those are all different challenges that people have and have to work around. But there isn't a worse than. Right. There's no trauma is so relative. And honestly, from what I hear over the last decade plus from this population is that So many women, and this is even, can be harmful to women who have been physically assaulted. I wish I was hit because then people could see it. People could see a bruise and say, yes, she's been abused. But even saying something like that to someone who has been, you know, beaten, well, that doesn't feel good either. And so it is, it's kind of delicate when people are comparing. And I think some of it's human nature to do that comparison.

SPEAKER_03:

And

SPEAKER_01:

if you've been in an abusive relationship, you have been trained to discount your experience and to minimize what you've gone through. You're more likely to do that because that's how you've been trained over however long you were with your partner.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think even in maybe relationships that don't necessarily have narcissistic abuse, but just the two people together don't work out, it's almost like... I have had clients, I wish I had a reason that I could tell people why we're getting divorced or why we're breaking up, but it's just not working because of X, Y, and Z. And so people, I think, seek out some sort of dramatic event or some specific details to share to others to justify why they need to end a relationship. But I think it's important for all listeners to hear, you can end and start any relationship just because you want to. You don't have to have a long list of evidence to explain to other people. It's your life, your feelings, your relationship. Why do you have to explain it to other people?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and that it's not their privilege all the time to know. Right? And so it can be hard when your partner is going to create the narrative to make you look bad. And I think that happens. Well, it always happens when there's abuse. But even in other relationships, because people don't want to be the bad one, even though in a lot of relationships there's not a bad anyone, it's just not working. But we're so polarized, good, bad. You know, we're, as a culture, not comfortable in the gray. Yep. And there's, oh my gosh, there's so much gray.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I imagine that feeds into the court system and the way that they judge people. things of like, oh, this is the bad party or this is the good party or neither party is wrong. It's both people's fault. It's like you mentioned. Well, you know, maybe it's both and rather than like yes or no.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And that it's, you know, in family court specifically, they typically get a snapshot, right? You don't have weeks to share your story. And unfortunately, survivors, if you're listening, you are in family court. You are going to want to word vomit and share the context of the whole thing. And unfortunately, it doesn't work in a family court setting. And so it is important to get support on how to share your story in a different way, which that's a whole other podcast episode. But it is. It's like they don't have the time to pay attention. They have their biases. Like, unfortunately, their biases and lack of education and in family court professionals. And so very often it's like a judge actually recently, and this isn't a singular event, but literally just recently said, jerks can be parents too. To the protective parent where there's been physical abuse, there's been gross stuff, right? That anyone you would think outside watching would be like, oh, that's a red flag. That's a concern. Maybe we should look at that. Nope. Jerks can be parents too. 50-50. Yeah. Right. So it's like so you're not validated outside of, you know, in these larger systems a lot of times. And so it can be really hard. And then you want to share your story because you're like, no, the judge thinks I'm a bad person, too, that I'm high conflict, too, that I'm the problem, too. And, you know.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think that goes back to the core system issue. needing to have like very specific evidence sometimes like I I don't know I don't want to get into a bunch of side stories here and tangents but I do think anytime that I've had a client who's dealt with the court it almost needs to be like so solid of an evidence or so very like specific pieces of information that indicate like things need to go one way or another and Maybe they have part of the evidence or a little bit of what the court's looking for. But unless it's outstanding, discreet information that the court is looking for, it doesn't go the way that the person wants it to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And sometimes the judge's hands are tied or your attorney's hands are tied because it doesn't fit the legal framework. requirements for something different.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's what I think I was looking for. And

SPEAKER_01:

so, yes, we like, would a judge want their children to go home with your ex? No, no, they don't. But they don't have anything to stand on legally. And then there are some judges that literally suck and are completely biased and make horrible decisions. So as we're going back to that thought of community, it's so important when you are going through something so hard And the marathon of leaving a narcissistic partner, you need that support. You need that community. You need people in your world to help you. Sometimes you need to just vent and needing a place for that. Sometimes you need logistical support like childcare or referrals to good attorneys or things like that. So that community piece is really helpful and is important and It can be a creative community of mine, but it can be the people in your world. If you have safe family and friends, it can be them. It can be your therapist. It can be your attorney, but don't use your attorney as your therapist. That's really expensive, FYI, and they're not good at it. So don't do that. Yes, they're not trained in that regard. No, and it happens all the time. It happens all the time because it's someone who's listening to you. And if you feel like you've never been heard... Amazing to have someone hear you. Yeah. But

SPEAKER_02:

sharing what you need to share with the people who actually are trained or have the mental space and have the time to do that, I think is really important, too.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. Yep. And knowing people's role. Right. A therapist role is really different than the attorney's role is different than your mom's role. And then the other thing is you don't have to share, like we were talking about before, even if there is no abuse in your relationship, but you're just done with that relationship. You don't have to share 100% of your story with everybody. They don't maybe have that privilege or deserve it. I have a client actually who is like, you know, these people got the 50% version. These people get the 80% version. You and one other person get the 100% version. because you understand the nuances or the details and you're not judging, right? And so you get to choose how much of your story you want to share. And

SPEAKER_02:

I think that also gives just that dialogue in general gives the person that you're working with potentially some more trust in themselves because they can identify what's important to share with who. And they're reestablishing internal boundaries by doing that rather than feeling like they don't have any control over the narrative or any control over where their life is going. They can at least have that more internal boundary. And hopefully that feels grounding to people in that situation.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. There's something so amazing about sharing your shame stories. And I... Like some of Brene Brown's stuff, I don't like some of the stuff, but that one piece of sharing your shame stories is so healing. And so when you can find, again, you're not sharing with the mom, you're waiting outside of school to pick your kid up and there's random mom you've seen a couple of times. Nope, that's not the person right away to word vomit your whole story. You're dipping your toe in the water and seeing their responses and So you can judge like, oh, do I trust this? Do I not trust this? How much can I share with this person? And even just sharing little bits of your stories that carry some shame will help you release some of that shame.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I do like the idea that you just mentioned of like, maybe this is Bernie Brown's idea. So I don't know who to give credit to, but to like pay attention to like how someone is responding to what you're saying before you say everything. Because, yeah, you don't want to walk away from a conversation being like, why did I say that? I don't trust this person. And now their reaction has influenced another domino effect of emotions that are arising in me.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's protecting yourself. And like you were saying, it's redeveloping that sense of your boundaries and your internal feelings of safety. And so that dipping the toe in the water is... so helpful because then if somebody does respond with one of those horrible things like, gosh, if that happened to me, I would have left the first time.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's not helpful to hear.

SPEAKER_01:

Right? Then it's like, thank you. Have a nice day. It's so nice and warm and sunny today. And those are your conversations about the weather. It's not about anything deep. You know that that person is not going to be your person. And it gives you just a little indicator of, okay, they don't actually get any of my story. We're talking about the weather. But then this person seemed really curious and thoughtful and didn't say something horrible. So the next time I will continue and just see where this can go.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think redeveloping that internal trust is really important because I would imagine someone that's also coming out of this position who's or anybody who's experienced trauma. might find that their compass is off and so they keep checking in with other people on what to do and how to do it. And then they get maybe 10 different stories of how to resolve their issue and then overwhelmed by that information and then are even more paralyzed of how to make a choice of how to proceed. But if you know that you can trust one or two people or maybe three or four and only get feedback from those people, You could then discern, okay, based on this feedback and based on my own opinions, I can make this decision and, again, further develop that inner trust I imagine is part of the process that a lot of these women go through.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and something I love to be able to share with the survivors I work with is you know better than anyone else about how to help your kids, about what your ex-partner's going to do, Mm-hmm. And so, you know, by the way your partner comes home, they throw the mail on the table, your nervous system already computes like a computer. This is what I need to do tonight to stay safer. Do you already know? And so we as professionals need to tap in to survivors' expertise more than we do. And I think even then, if we are asking their expertise and what they predict will happen, they're right on, right? They are almost always right on. And so then it's, okay, you know this. Now, how can I support you in our next step? And so often survivors think that they are completely worthless, incapable of all the things. And yet that is the best source of information is within. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I hope that through the work that they do, not only with you, but In the community that you have, hopefully all women can get back to that place of that self-trust and that self-empowerment of them knowing that they do know what's best rather than feeling lost and confused in their journey to heal.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing getting to see that and getting to see them support each other. It moves from this place of where a lot of people call neediness, like they seem to where They're just consulting, right? They're not asking for advice. It's just a consult of like, hey, this is what I'm thinking of doing. This is how I'm thinking of writing this message. Okay, good, check. To then them being like, hey, I wrote this, right? Not needing to check in. I wrote this message, look at the outcome. And so just getting to see that process is awesome. And as a therapist, we get to see that trauma work and that process of them moving from their neural networks that we were talking about, new pathways of safety and confidence and boundaries and all of those things. And so, yeah, getting to see that progress in both places, it's just an honor and so amazing. So why am I passionate about doing this? Because of that. That's why. Because I get to see that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's great. Yeah. So before we have to wrap up, I was hoping you could share with people that are listening, how they can find you and what you have going on. So if anyone is interested in working with you or being involved in your community that they can tap in.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. So the community is, it's known as the Rising Beyond Community. The business is actually called Rising Beyond Power and Control, but it's called the, people know it as the Rising Beyond Community. Stephanie on my website, but it's www.risingbeyondpc.com. That's the best way to get all of the things. There's free resources on there. If you are stuck and need legal, if you are stuck and need parenting, you're stuck and need some trauma related information, that is probably the best place to go. And then I also have a podcast. It's called the Rising Beyond Podcast. And I share the nitty gritty details of how to share messages, like how to respond to your ex-partner and your co-parenting app. how to make sure you have a loophole-free parenting plan, and then some of the more therapeutic things. So it's definitely the logistical and therapeutic. I have some amazing guests on there as well that are really well-known in the field that share their insights as well. And then you can find me on Instagram, risingbeyondpc. And then if you're in Colorado and you want therapeutic services, which is different than the community-based services I'm at ArvadaTherapySolutions.com. And I'm clearly in Arvada, which is a city in Colorado.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, thank you so much for taking time to talk with me today and share with our listeners what you do and the importance of the work that you're doing. I really think that women all around can learn from listening to themselves and trusting themselves as well as stepping away from toxic relationships. protecting both themselves and their children, I think is really important for all women who have children or even for themselves. So thank you again for joining us.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you for having me. And I hope that it resonates with somebody out there. Thank

SPEAKER_02:

you all for listening. I hope you found some inspiration, validation, had some questions answered, or just enjoyed listening to this week's episode. I encourage you to check out our website, wellmindedcounseling.com backslash redefininguspod for any resources that were mentioned in today's episode. Check out my new program on our website as well for first-time moms, where you can join other women entering into motherhood. The program offers three phases. Phase one, exploring where you are on your journey towards motherhood and connecting with this new identity. Phase two, preparing your mind, body, and spirit for giving birth. And phase three, reconnecting to yourself while caring for your baby. I truly appreciate if you leave a review and rating so other women can find us as well. Thank you all for listening again and keep on connecting with yourself and with others in the community and redefining us.