Redefining Us

17: Using Body Neutrality to Navigate Change and Build Confidence with Eada Gendelman

• Season 1 • Episode 17

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Imagine how powerful we'd all be if we stopped wasting energy on body shame and turned it toward something that truly matters. Eada Gendelman, a therapist who helps those with disordered eating is here to talk about healing our relationship with food, body, and exercise. Drawing from her own experience with an eating disorder, Eada shares how shame, societal praise for disordered behaviors, and a lack of language prevent many from seeking help. She and Stephanie discuss how cultural shifts have changed (but not solved) body image struggles and why self-compassion is the key to true healing. If you’ve ever felt stuck in a cycle of self-criticism, this conversation will inspire you to break free, reclaim your energy, and see that healing is always possible.


Connect with Eada:
Website: http://morningbirdtherapy.com

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SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to Redefining Us, where we explore sexuality, identity, motherhood, and mental health to help women thrive authentically. Let's break free from roles that limit us and create a life where you can truly be yourself. Welcome back to Redefining Us. I'm your host, Stephanie Contra O'Hara, licensed professional counselor. I'm here with Ida Gendelman, who is also a licensed professional counselor and recently launched a Denver-based private practice called Morning Bird Therapy. She is passionate about helping adults and teens healing their relationship with mind, body, food, and exercise. She has worked in the mental health field since 2019, and she's extremely dedicated to the work. So I'm so excited to have you on today, Ida. How are you? I'm good. Thanks so much for having me on. Excited to be here. Awesome. Yeah. Well, yeah, why don't you tell us a little bit about why this work is so important to you and why you're so passionate?

SPEAKER_00:

Sure. Yeah, I guess just right off the bat, I struggled with an eating disorder when I was young, and it was obviously really hard, and it was something that I kept a secret for years. So when I finally reached out to get help, my life really changed. I have a very strong belief and hope that it's possible to get better and over the years I've just learned so much about healing your relationship with food and body and I love it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I really appreciate your candidness and sharing with the audience why you kind of came into this journey. I think a lot of people struggle with body image or eating issues, and then it goes unnoticed and pushed under the rug for a long time. And so hopefully your bravery and sharing that you've gone through Journey 2 will inspire other people to be like, oh, we should actually talk about this and not just, yeah, act like it never happened or act like it's not happening.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And in grad school, I was always taught not to share my personal story with my clients or anything about my mental health journey. And of course, I like steer away from nitty gritty details. But I find that my clients really appreciate knowing that I've been there and I know how hard it is. And it goes a long way when they feel connected in that way.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I feel like authenticity and being connected to your client is almost more important than that blank slate mindset that they teach you about in grad school, which I think can benefit some clients, but not all.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it definitely depends. But yeah, I found that sharing that piece of my story is helpful. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. You know, I'm curious in your work, what do you find to be the biggest barriers for women or men to come in and be honest about their experience?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I mean, it kind of depends on the person and honestly how old they are and what they've been through. A lot of people don't really have the language to even say what they're feeling or what they're doing to their body. And they don't. really know what's going on because they've never had a chance to talk about it or learn about it. So I think that's a big barrier. I'd say another big barrier is that there's a lot of shame. A lot of people are embarrassed that they struggle with it. I think especially men, because there's like this very pervasive idea that eating disorders are the women's illness. And I think shame is a barrier to getting all kinds of mental health help. But I see that a lot.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. I think even the first point you mentioned, lack of education or a lack of the words to use, because I think a lot of times why people stay in secret is they don't even know they're in secret because it's so normalized for them. And this is just what they've done always or what their family culture is forever. And so I Yeah, giving them that language and insight that like, oh, your relationship with food doesn't have to look like this, I think could be really jarring to potentially some people.

SPEAKER_00:

Definitely. I know that was part of my experience. Like, I didn't even know what I was doing or what was disordered or not. And unfortunately, in a lot of people's families or community circles, eating disorder behaviors are encouraged and praised. And so it gets really tricky to even figure out what is an unhealthy behavior and what's not.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I would love for you to maybe elaborate for people. What sort of behaviors do you find get praised or maybe get perpetuated because of that praise? I

SPEAKER_00:

mean, the first one that comes to mind is the praise that people receive when they lose weight. whether or not they lost it in a healthy way. I mean, there are so many reasons that people lose weight, but when they're praised for getting smaller, it sends this message that that's better and that you are more important or more beautiful or more valued in society. And it's so harmful because it perpetuates whatever the behavior was that led to the weight loss. But yeah, in general, I work with a lot of people that are praised for exercising excessively or being really disciplined with what they're eating and having really good portion control and never eating carbs and all these things that a lot of people view as healthy when in reality, it's usually not.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. It's reminding me of something that I feel like has been coming up in Some conversations that I've been having with other people around how weight or a weight goal is like a very, what's a good word? Like people use it as an analogy oftentimes of how to set even like something that's maybe more therapeutic, like a smart goal. And they'll use weight as the example sometimes. I see that so often. Why are we using weight as a way to teach someone about what a SMART goal is? Can we choose something else?

SPEAKER_00:

I'll read a self-help book that's supposed to be about forming good habits or whatever. And then the goal is always about losing weight or going on a diet or something. I don't know. I don't know why that's like the example or the analogy all the time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think... It's so potentially quote unquote relatable, but for the wrong reasons, right? So many people talk about weight and talk about body size and talk about whatever without much conscious thought about like, oh, this could be not helpful for somebody else to hear. And so it's a go-to or something. I was watching this, you know, real TikTok, whatever they are on the internet, and I sound old. I mean that, but whatever. I'm an elder millennial. I'm going to own it. That was like showing clips of interviewers talking to women about their weight in the 90s and just how flippant, flippant, flippant, flippant people are or people were when asking women about their weight and calling people chubby to their face in an interview as if that was just normal talk. And so I really think there's these decades and like generational ideas about weight that are still so stuck in the way that people see setting goals.

SPEAKER_00:

Totally. Yeah, it's super jarring to watch movies from the 90s or the early 2000s and hear how they talk about weight and bodies. You're right, like so flippantly. That is no longer how we do it. And I know I've talked to you about this before, but it seems like now we've kind of swung to this other side where, and I've just noticed this in my practice and in my personal life, where women now don't really know how to talk about their bodies with each other. Because before it was kind of bonding over like, oh, I hate how I look in this outfit. And the other woman friend would be like, oh my God, me too. My legs or whatever are bonding over how hard a diet is or something. And now we're in this place where diet culture is out. It's not cool to talk about these things. It's not in vogue anymore. So people don't say anything at all, even if they're really struggling with body image. So I think we're still figuring out how to connect and be open about those things without triggering each other or saying things that are hurtful or overly flippant.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I would be really curious if anyone's done research on this topic of how do you have the conversation? Because as someone who's been in the eating disorder world and body image and body positivity, I also struggle with my own eating disorder as a teenager slash 20s. I find that I'm potentially lean to like fuck the patriarchy like don't give a shit about what other people think that you look and don't value what someone else's opinion is more than your own and I can get on a soapbox which might be a little too intense for some people but I have a hard time not getting there because I think that there's just this inner rage about the fact that it's still something that women struggle with or men struggle with and I'm like why is this still a We are in 2025. in casual conversation that's not my client. I tend to be a soapbox person and I'm like, all right, Stephanie, reel it back.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, I feel that rage too because it is ridiculous that there's still, like, we know so much more now about the patriarchy and who is benefiting and profiting off of our insecurities and yet it's still top of mind for many women. So I feel that anger too and I think It's like fuel that helps us take action. But I think even people that feel that rage at the exact same time might be struggling with body insecurity. And it's really hard to make sense of both of those opposing feelings at the same time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

No, I don't disagree that someone could be experiencing both. That is the complexity that it is to be a human being, right? To be angry at something. and understand why you maybe are in these patterns, but also having such a hard time getting out of the pattern.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's hard to let go. A lot of people, women in particular, use controlling their food and exercise as a way to feel like they have a sense of control, especially. I guess I don't have to go political, but I mean, I feel like there's a relationship between when women perceive that they're losing their rights and when they tighten up with food and exercise and get more rigid.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Well, yeah, if you feel out of control in one area, you're going to want to try to regain control in another, whether it's through food or what have you. I think that's just a part of the human experience is this push-pull with, I want control and I don't have any control and whatever. you know, back and forth and back and forth.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And it can be conscious or subconscious.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I'm curious, what kind of tools do you help people with who maybe come in in that place where they're like, I, yeah, or maybe they're talking about their rights feeling like they're taken away or they're not as autonomous as they would like to over their body or, you know, they're losing control in some other area of their life and they're using food as a way to regain that control.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, I always start with mindfulness and awareness because you can't change what you don't know. So really drawing attention to when do you notice that you feel more of that urge to control your food or exercise? What emotions come up? What patterns do you see? And once you have that awareness, I like to give people concrete tools. So I like to use DBT and ACT for managing. maybe impulsive food or body-related behaviors. I use a ton of self-compassion and compassion, like a lot, very powerful tool. And then I just really like to dig in and really figure out where is this coming from? What are you ultimately trying to get out of these behaviors? And I think a lot of people that struggle with food and body are kind of perfectionistic, black and white people. I'm a recovering black and white thinker, so I'm super passionate about challenging that and digging into nuance and gray areas and all those little in-between spaces.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, two things that you said that I want to highlight is the self-compassion piece as well as the black and white thinking. I think people... love labels and love to be clear about what they think or what they believe and living in the gray can be really uncomfortable for a lot of people. And also having self-compassion. I don't know. I think a lot of people struggle with that, whether you're someone with an eating disorder or not. Like it's a, yeah, I don't know. It's like a mountain to climb. I feel like with a lot of people to get to a place where they truly have self-compassion.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. It's really not easy, especially when we're used to years and years of talking to ourselves in a really harsh and cruel way. It can feel so foreign and forced to try and suddenly be self-compassionate. But I mean, that's part of why I love my role as a therapist. First, I'll extend compassion to you. And it's real. I have a very real empathy for this kind of pain. And I think just seeing someone else sit in that with you and model compassion for you can be really powerful for then taking it home and trying to show it to yourself. Yeah. I'm curious how you help clients develop their self-compassion skills.

SPEAKER_01:

That's a good question. Yeah. I think I really try to challenge people to think about what's the harm in giving yourself self-compassion. Is it really going to take away anything from you because of my own personal experience with it? Like, one of my challenges was if I'm nice to myself. That means that I am going to let myself go or I'm not going to strive to achieve anymore or I'm not going to be successful. No one's going to care about me if I don't push, if I don't work hard, blah, blah, blah. I had all these locking beliefs from allowing myself to be self-compassionate. So kind of extending that like, yeah, there's going to be a lot of things that are going to get in the way of you wanting to be self-compassionate. You can be self-compassionate and successful. You can be self-compassionate and still achieve things. Like you can do both. Going back to that black and white thinking, right? It doesn't have to be, oh, I'm kind to myself, which that means that I'm going to just lay on the couch all day. That's not self-compassion, right? Being self-compassionate looks good. different for every person. Maybe one day laying on the couch is an act of self-compassion, but that's not how it's going to look every day. And so really helping them see self-compassion through that lens, I think is one of the first things that I really work on with clients because there's a lot of barriers around, well, if I'm nice to myself, I don't know, I'm going to fall apart. Nothing's ever going to get done.

SPEAKER_00:

That's so common. A lot of people think their perfectionism or their self-shaming is the reason they're successful. And it's just not true. It's possible to be ambitious, motivated, driven, and have a lot of self-compassion. But a lot of people, that's an unfamiliar concept to many.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, for sure. It feels very foreign. I like to try to bring it back to this analogy of, all right, let's say you're just going to study for a test. And you get a D on the test. You're not going to suddenly feel great about yourself if you see that you've gotten this D on your test. And it might even discourage you to try the next time because you think to yourself like, oh, I'm already a failure. I'm already not good enough. So why bother trying? But if you tell yourself that you've done a good job and whatnot, if you've gotten a C or something, I don't know, and you've done yourself, it can say like, oh, I did a good enough job to get a passing grade. That's going to help you the next time to get another C or a B or other passing grades. I think it's when we shame ourselves, we are labeling ourselves as a failure, rather than if we're telling ourselves that we've done okay or we've done enough, that motivates us to continue moving forward. So yeah, like removing that language that Self-compassion is going to like lead to, I don't know, lower levels of success. Self-compassion actually leads to higher levels of self-acceptance and probably actually helps

SPEAKER_00:

you be more successful. Yeah, there's research on self-compassion being a really good indicator of how successful you are, how much peace you feel in your life. And yeah, I like that analogy a lot. And it would be okay to be bummed about getting a D. Like that sucks. And you don't need to call yourself stupid and just be really mean to yourself and beat yourself up. That's not going to help you get an A the next time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I talk a lot with my clients about the difference between striving for perfection and striving for excellence and how it's possible to strive for excellence and be self-compassionate along the way. Whereas if you're striving for perfection, you're always going to fall short.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I like that. Differentiating what is the actual goal. Yeah. Yeah, I guess my next question is, why do you think this is a particularly important for women to hear your message now? What are you hoping that people hear? I

SPEAKER_00:

think it's especially important now because I see women right now at this juncture of we can talk. all work together right now to make things better in this country for us and for people of all genders, or we could backslide. And so I feel like providing a lot of education about the roots of diet culture and the patriarchy and the people that are benefiting and profiting from your body insecurities, like I said, it can be really powerful fuel for making a difference. And honestly, like, I'm just, I really am sick of seeing women suffer. I have seen women of all ages. I worked with older women that are in their 60s and they've spent their whole lives hating their bodies. And I'm sick of it. If I can do anything to change that, I want to.

SPEAKER_01:

I saw this quote that said, just imagine how powerful women could be if we all just woke up tomorrow and didn't care about how we look. How freaking badass would we all be if that was one last thing to double check on your list every day? Yeah,

SPEAKER_00:

think about the brain space we would get back or the energy we would have if we were all eating enough and not wearing ourselves thin. And I mean, of course, women are amazing. We've accomplished so much even under these oppressive circumstances. But imagine what we could do if we didn't care so much.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So is there any final message that you want to leave for the audience and maybe share where they can find you?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So I guess my final message is that it is possible to feel better and to live a better life. life. If you're struggling with food in your body, even if you've struggled for many, many years, I believe wholeheartedly that it's possible to feel better. I'm an eternal optimist about that. So then my clients get annoyed at me about it, but I have so much hope for everyone that it's possible if you want to, to feel better. And yeah, I don't do social media for work stuff, but I have a practice here in Denver and my website is morningbirdtherapy.com.

SPEAKER_01:

Awesome. Yeah, that'll all be in the show notes so people can find it easily. But yeah, I just wanted to echo that message of, you know, if one person can feel better, so can you. It's possible for everyone to overcome, whether it's eating disorder or anxiety or, you know, we all are resilient and we're all born with that. That's not something that you need to, like, It's a muscle you need to practice, but it's not something you need to gain that's outside of yourself.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And I feel like it's easy for people to hear that and be like, OK, obviously you guys are going to say that you're therapists. But I mean, it's the truth. And one of my strongest beliefs. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. That's true. I do think that people are like, oh, you're probably just therapists. You're always like, blah, blah, blah. But like, no, I would say this to anyone, not just because Edith's a therapist, but like even a client, even a person on the street, like, you know, you're not doomed until, I don't know, you're never doomed. Like it's not over until it's really over. So keep fighting. Yeah, I agree. Well, thank you so much for being on, Edith. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for tuning in to Redefining Us once again and share with other people so other people can continue to listen to Redefining Us and we can get into more listeners ears if you follow us or subscribe or leave a comment or review that would be greatly helpful for other people to find us and also just for me to get some feedback. What do you guys want to hear me say? What do you women care about hearing? I'm totally open to Thank you so much for joining us today. So you can be in the know with all the things that are happening in the redefining us community. Once again, thank you so much for listening and keep being awesome.